Oven wiring question
 

My single oven went out and the wife wants a double oven with one
conventional and one convection oven. The current oven is on a
dedicated circuit with #10 wire and a 30 amp breaker. There is no
practial way to change the existing wiring.

The oven web site says the double oven needs to have #8 wire and a 40
amp breaker. The maximum load stated is 8000 W. I have been told (by
amateur electricians) that unless I have both ovens on at the same time
on high heat, I could run the ovens with no problems with the existing
wire and breaker. They believe there is a big enough cushion built in
to allow this operation.

I would appreciate any thoughts on this.


--
tomco2000
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"tomco2000" wrote in message
...

My single oven went out and the wife wants a double oven with one
conventional and one convection oven. The current oven is on a
dedicated circuit with #10 wire and a 30 amp breaker. There is no
practial way to change the existing wiring.

The oven web site says the double oven needs to have #8 wire and a
40
amp breaker. The maximum load stated is 8000 W. I have been told
(by
amateur electricians) that unless I have both ovens on at the same
time
on high heat, I could run the ovens with no problems with the
existing
wire and breaker. They believe there is a big enough cushion built
in
to allow this operation.

I would appreciate any thoughts on this.


Might work, but what are the conditions that make changing the wire
impractical? You would be surprised at what an experienced electrician
can do...

tomco2000 wrote:
My single oven went out and the wife wants a double oven with one
conventional and one convection oven. The current oven is on a
dedicated circuit with #10 wire and a 30 amp breaker. There is no
practial way to change the existing wiring.

The oven web site says the double oven needs to have #8 wire and a 40
amp breaker. The maximum load stated is 8000 W. I have been told (by
amateur electricians) that unless I have both ovens on at the same
time on high heat, I could run the ovens with no problems with the
existing wire and breaker. They believe there is a big enough
cushion built in to allow this operation.

I would appreciate any thoughts on this.

Might work, but it would not be code. I might add that if you had a
fire and the insurance company noticed it (the fire department is likely to
notice it) you would likely find you have no insurance. This would likely be
true even IF that was not the direct cause.

In short, don't do it. I suspect the "There is no practial way to
change the existing wiring." is not exactly true and a professional would
find a practical way of doing it. Sometimes they are nothing short of
amazing.



--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

"tomco2000" wrote in message
...

My single oven went out and the wife wants a double oven with one
conventional and one convection oven. The current oven is on a
dedicated circuit with #10 wire and a 30 amp breaker. There is no
practial way to change the existing wiring.

The oven web site says the double oven needs to have #8 wire and a 40
amp breaker. The maximum load stated is 8000 W. I have been told (by
amateur electricians) that unless I have both ovens on at the same time
on high heat, I could run the ovens with no problems with the existing
wire and breaker. They believe there is a big enough cushion built in
to allow this operation.

I would appreciate any thoughts on this.

It would not be to code.
Sooner or later, both ovens will be on. Why have them if you can't use
them.
If you ever sell the house, the new owner may not take the precautions you
do.
If you do use both ovens eventually it will pop the breaker. You may not
notice that until you go to take dinner out and find it did not cook.
You have the potential to pull more amps than the wire is rated for. Not a
safe condition, especially since ovens tend to stay on for an hour or three
at a time drawing current on that wire.

It may be easier than you think to do it right. Call an electrician and ask
him to take a look a quote it. A real one, not the amateurs you have asked.

I would not do it in my house, nor would I ever recommend anyone else do so.

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
news:gGRAe.5027$zj4.425@trndny06...

"tomco2000" wrote in message
...

My single oven went out and the wife wants a double oven with one
conventional and one convection oven. The current oven is on a
dedicated circuit with #10 wire and a 30 amp breaker. There is no
practial way to change the existing wiring.

The oven web site says the double oven needs to have #8 wire and a
40
amp breaker. The maximum load stated is 8000 W. I have been told
(by
amateur electricians) that unless I have both ovens on at the same
time
on high heat, I could run the ovens with no problems with the
existing
wire and breaker. They believe there is a big enough cushion
built in
to allow this operation.

I would appreciate any thoughts on this.

It would not be to code.
Sooner or later, both ovens will be on. Why have them if you can't
use
them.
If you ever sell the house, the new owner may not take the
precautions you
do.
If you do use both ovens eventually it will pop the breaker. You
may not
notice that until you go to take dinner out and find it did not
cook.
You have the potential to pull more amps than the wire is rated for.

How so? The breaker is sized for the wire. On a typical branch circuit
with many outlets you certainly have the potential to draw more than
the wire is rated for-that's what the breaker is for.

Not a
safe condition, especially since ovens tend to stay on for an hour
or three
at a time drawing current on that wire.

It may be easier than you think to do it right. Call an electrician
and ask
him to take a look a quote it. A real one, not the amateurs you have
asked.

I would not do it in my house, nor would I ever recommend anyone
else do so.

The oven web site says the double oven needs to have #8 wire and a 40
amp breaker. The maximum load stated is 8000 W. I have been told (by
amateur electricians) that unless I have both ovens on at the same time
on high heat, I could run the ovens with no problems with the existing
wire and breaker. They believe there is a big enough cushion built in
to allow this operation.

I would appreciate any thoughts on this.


Follow the installation instructions for that particular oven.
You can probably get away with doing it wrong, as long as you
only use one oven at a time, but it will still be wrong.

I have a two story house and the wiring run betweens the floors. This
is why I said it is impratical to change.


--
tomco2000
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"Rick" wrote in message
You have the potential to pull more amps than the wire is rated for.

How so? The breaker is sized for the wire. On a typical branch circuit
with many outlets you certainly have the potential to draw more than
the wire is rated for-that's what the breaker is for.

Key word POTENTIAL

The wire is rated for 30 amps, but the ovens can pull 33. Will the breaker
take care of that? Some breakers can tolerate a little overage for a
period of time. Is every breaker perfect? Do you want to take that chance?
Wire and breakers are supposed to be sized at 80% actual use, not 110%.

Look at the statistic. Most house fires caused by faulty wiring are where
something has run for a long period of time. Plug in a 5 hp motor and you
blow the breaker or fuse. No serious damage done and you find the problem
and fix it. Plug in that space heater and let it run for a few hours, then
you have the problem. The heat is building over time.

As you point out, a branch circuit is sized for the wire, but has the
potential for many connections. Usually, those connections are not running
all the time.The purpose if a double oven is to use both at the same time.

"tomco2000" wrote in message
...

I have a two story house and the wiring run betweens the floors. This
is why I said it is impratical to change.

Some electricians run into this and solve it all the time. In this case, it
may even be easier than running new since the old wire may be able to pull
the new wire through.

tomco2000 wrote:
I have a two story house and the wiring run betweens the floors. This
is why I said it is impratical to change.

Impractical for you. Not likely so for the professional. They get paid
for knowing how to do what you can't.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
news:kZSAe.5516$zj4.5220@trndny06...

"Rick" wrote in message
You have the potential to pull more amps than the wire is rated
for.

How so? The breaker is sized for the wire. On a typical branch
circuit
with many outlets you certainly have the potential to draw more
than
the wire is rated for-that's what the breaker is for.

Key word POTENTIAL

The wire is rated for 30 amps, but the ovens can pull 33. Will the
breaker
take care of that? Some breakers can tolerate a little overage for
a
period of time. Is every breaker perfect? Do you want to take that
chance?
Wire and breakers are supposed to be sized at 80% actual use, not
110%.

Look at the statistic. Most house fires caused by faulty wiring are
where
something has run for a long period of time. Plug in a 5 hp motor
and you
blow the breaker or fuse. No serious damage done and you find the
problem
and fix it. Plug in that space heater and let it run for a few
hours, then
you have the problem. The heat is building over time.

As you point out, a branch circuit is sized for the wire, but has
the
potential for many connections. Usually, those connections are not
running
all the time.The purpose if a double oven is to use both at the same
time.


Agreed-in no way am I suggesting the existing circuit should be used.
It needs to be rewired. My point was that a normal residential branch
circuit also has the POTENTIAL for being overloaded much higher than
the circuit is rated for (other kitchen appliances for instance)

"Rick" wrote in message
ink.net...

Agreed-in no way am I suggesting the existing circuit should be
used.
It needs to be rewired. My point was that a normal residential
branch
circuit also has the POTENTIAL for being overloaded much higher than
the circuit is rated for (other kitchen appliances for instance)

But is obviously protected by the breaker. And they are not normally
loaded for an extended period.

Done....

wrote in message

Keep looking at ovens, you might find one that is physically
interlocked from both being on at the same time.

They why would you want to own it?

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
"tomco2000" wrote in message
...

My single oven went out and the wife wants a double oven with one
conventional and one convection oven. The current oven is on a
dedicated circuit with #10 wire and a 30 amp breaker. There is no
practial way to change the existing wiring.

The oven web site says the double oven needs to have #8 wire and a 40
amp breaker. The maximum load stated is 8000 W. I have been told (by
amateur electricians) that unless I have both ovens on at the same time
on high heat, I could run the ovens with no problems with the existing
wire and breaker. They believe there is a big enough cushion built in
to allow this operation.

I would appreciate any thoughts on this.

It would not be to code.
Sooner or later, both ovens will be on. Why have them if you can't use
them.
If you ever sell the house, the new owner may not take the precautions you
do.
If you do use both ovens eventually it will pop the breaker. You may not
notice that until you go to take dinner out and find it did not cook.
You have the potential to pull more amps than the wire is rated for. Not a
safe condition, especially since ovens tend to stay on for an hour or three
at a time drawing current on that wire.

It may be easier than you think to do it right. Call an electrician and ask
him to take a look a quote it. A real one, not the amateurs you have asked.

Heh-I've seen some "real" ones that are worse than amateurish in their
work...

But he needs to find one that's experienced in remodel work more than
new construction. A few fish tapes, some pull rope, lube, and a great
sense of direction can make short work of it...


I would not do it in my house, nor would I ever recommend anyone else do so.

OK, maybe this is an incredibly stupid question but:

What's the point of having a double-oven if you only can use one at a time?

-Tim

I have a master electrician (licensed, insured & bonded) coming out
today to take a look. Thanks again for all the help!


(If anyone is interested, I'll let you know how it turns out)


--
tomco2000
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wrote in message
...
different kind of oven?

OK, I know of standard, convection, and microwave. I'm assuming we're not
talking about a microwave, and AFAIK a convection can operate as a standard
oven. I still don't see the need for two if you can't use both...

-Tim

Thanks again to those who offered advice and help. I went with a pro
and it set me back $350.00 but the right size wire and breaker is in.
They were creative in running the wire but everything came out o.k.

Now I just have to wait on Sears. My oven is 7 days past promised
delivery date, but they have assured me (again) that it will be in
tomorrow!


--
tomco2000
------------------------------------------------------------------------
tomco2000's Profile: http://www.homeplot.com/member.php?userid=12
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tomco2000 wrote:
Thanks again to those who offered advice and help. I went with a pro
and it set me back $350.00 but the right size wire and breaker is in.
They were creative in running the wire but everything came out o.k.

Now I just have to wait on Sears. My oven is 7 days past promised
delivery date, but they have assured me (again) that it will be in
tomorrow!


So what is the problem, they are not changing their story, it is the
same every time you ask, it will be in tomorrow. :-)

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit