Simple Kitchen Remodel question....
 

I want to remodel my entire kitchen, including adding ceramic tile flooring.
Is it better to:

1) Remove all cabinets & appliances and tile the entire floor? Then replace
the cabinets & appliances over the new tile?

OR

2) Replace and fix all cabinets first, then only tile up to the cabinets?

Thanks.

Bill wrote:
I want to remodel my entire kitchen, including adding ceramic tile flooring.
Is it better to:

1) Remove all cabinets & appliances and tile the entire floor? Then replace
the cabinets & appliances over the new tile?

OR

2) Replace and fix all cabinets first, then only tile up to the cabinets?

The second option is the usual course of events. Depending on which
appliances you're talking about, you may want to run the tile under
them before installation.

R

On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 17:52:11 GMT, "Bill" wrote:

I want to remodel my entire kitchen, including adding ceramic tile flooring.
Is it better to:

1) Remove all cabinets & appliances and tile the entire floor? Then replace
the cabinets & appliances over the new tile?

OR

2) Replace and fix all cabinets first, then only tile up to the cabinets?

Thanks.

The usual advice is to tile the whole floor, and then place the base
cabinets. This makes an easier tile job, places the countertops at a
true 36", avoids having to deal with trying to get the dishwasher in
and out over the edge of the tile, and, in theory, could allow you to
rearrange things in future without redoing floor.

Having said that... I wish the guy who did my kitchen had placed the
base cabinets first, and then tiled, because I would really like to
replace the floor with something more to my liking, and that would
mean ripping out all the cabinets now, since the tile runs under them.
The rest of the kitchen is in good shape, but the floor has got to go.

I I were remodeling now, I think I'd lay a 3/4" (or whatever will
match the finished tile height) plywood spacer down where the base
cabinets are going to go, including under the dishwasher, tile up to
that, and then place the cabinets on top of the plywood. The cabinets
wouldn't be in the way while tileing, and all the heights would work
out.

My $.02

Paul

"Bill" wrote in message
...
I want to remodel my entire kitchen, including adding ceramic tile
flooring.
Is it better to:

1) Remove all cabinets & appliances and tile the entire floor? Then
replace
the cabinets & appliances over the new tile?

Definitely 1.


OR

2) Replace and fix all cabinets first, then only tile up to the cabinets?

Thanks.

Is it better to:

1) Remove all cabinets & appliances and tile the entire floor? Then
replace
the cabinets & appliances over the new tile?
OR
2) Replace and fix all cabinets first, then only tile up to the cabinets?

It would seem like a waste of money to tile under fixed equipment like
cabinets. If they're being screwed to the wall and never expected to be
moved then why tile under them? That and the weight of the cabinets on top
of the tiles would present greater likelihood of cracking them.

For applicance bays it might be worth tiling into them to help avoid spills
running off the main floor area and down directly to subfloor. Or if you're
using really expensive tiles then use something cheaper, but of the same
height, in the unseen areas.

-Bill Kearney

Bill wrote:
I want to remodel my entire kitchen, including adding ceramic tile flooring.
Is it better to:

1) Remove all cabinets & appliances and tile the entire floor? Then replace
the cabinets & appliances over the new tile?

OR

2) Replace and fix all cabinets first, then only tile up to the cabinets?

Thanks.



99.9% of the time it's #2. At least it is in CA. All the rough work
gets done first incl. setting the cabs, then the tile follows. In the
event you replace the floor at a later time it's a much easier chore as
well. I recommend you tile under the dishwasher before it's installation.

Paul Franklin wrote:


Having said that... I wish the guy who did my kitchen had placed the
base cabinets first, and then tiled, because I would really like to
replace the floor with something more to my liking, and that would
mean ripping out all the cabinets now, since the tile runs under them.
The rest of the kitchen is in good shape, but the floor has got to go.


Ayup. It makes little to no sense to tile first on residential floors
prior to cabinets, etc. What little time and few cuts one saves by
doing so is far outweighed by possible hassles later.

Even though both methods are recommended here, IMHO those that recommend
tile first are not pros or have done very little in the way of remodelng
or tile installation.

wkearney99 wrote:
Is it better to:

1) Remove all cabinets & appliances and tile the entire floor? Then

replace

the cabinets & appliances over the new tile?
OR
2) Replace and fix all cabinets first, then only tile up to the cabinets?


It would seem like a waste of money to tile under fixed equipment like
cabinets. If they're being screwed to the wall and never expected to be
moved then why tile under them? That and the weight of the cabinets on top
of the tiles would present greater likelihood of cracking them.

For applicance bays it might be worth tiling into them to help avoid spills
running off the main floor area and down directly to subfloor. Or if you're
using really expensive tiles then use something cheaper, but of the same
height, in the unseen areas.

-Bill Kearney


Another voice of reason.

Reality is nature's way of keeping things straight.

It is better to tile LAST. You want to put down some good tile or
travertine, then have the cabinet guy, the countertop guy, the buttcrack
plumber, and a few others dragging their stuff over finished tile?

Think about it.

Steve

"G Henslee" wrote in message
...
Paul Franklin wrote:


Having said that... I wish the guy who did my kitchen had placed the
base cabinets first, and then tiled, because I would really like to
replace the floor with something more to my liking, and that would
mean ripping out all the cabinets now, since the tile runs under them.
The rest of the kitchen is in good shape, but the floor has got to go.


Ayup. It makes little to no sense to tile first on residential floors
prior to cabinets, etc. What little time and few cuts one saves by doing
so is far outweighed by possible hassles later.

Even though both methods are recommended here, IMHO those that recommend
tile first are not pros or have done very little in the way of remodelng
or tile installation.


I have a bathroom done the second way and it looks like ****.

"FDR" wrote in message
...

"Bill" wrote in message
...
I want to remodel my entire kitchen, including adding ceramic tile
flooring.
Is it better to:

1) Remove all cabinets & appliances and tile the entire floor? Then
replace
the cabinets & appliances over the new tile?

Definitely 1.


Definitely not. What do you do if you ever have the need to replace or
repair the floor? If it was linoleum, maybe. Ceramic, never

"FDR" wrote in message
...

I have a bathroom done the second way and it looks like ****.

Specifics?

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
.. .

"FDR" wrote in message
...

"Bill" wrote in message
...
I want to remodel my entire kitchen, including adding ceramic tile
flooring.
Is it better to:

1) Remove all cabinets & appliances and tile the entire floor? Then
replace
the cabinets & appliances over the new tile?

Definitely 1.


Definitely not. What do you do if you ever have the need to replace or
repair the floor? If it was linoleum, maybe. Ceramic, never


How often do you replace your floors?

"FDR" wrote in message


How often do you replace your floors?

Once so far. May do another this winter. It also give me control of the
pattern at the edge of the cabinets and/or walls.

Tile second, less time without a kitchen and no chance of breaking tile
during other work.


"Bill" wrote in message
...
I want to remodel my entire kitchen, including adding ceramic tile
flooring.
Is it better to:

1) Remove all cabinets & appliances and tile the entire floor? Then
replace
the cabinets & appliances over the new tile?

OR

2) Replace and fix all cabinets first, then only tile up to the cabinets?

Thanks.

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

"FDR" wrote in message


How often do you replace your floors?

Once so far. May do another this winter. It also give me control of the
pattern at the edge of the cabinets and/or walls.


Bored? :)

"Rick" wrote in message
nk.net...

"FDR" wrote in message
...

I have a bathroom done the second way and it looks like ****.

Specifics?


Ugly grout line at vanity. Tub is now effectivley locked in and would take
ripping the tiles up to replace it if it failed. We almost had to when the
whirlpool we had was warped at puddline at an edge. Luckily we found
somebody that repairs acrylic and could heat it and bend it back to the
right pitch.

"FDR" wrote in message


Ugly grout line at vanity.

Could be a poor installation.


Tub is now effectivley locked in and would take ripping the tiles up to
replace it if it failed. We almost had to when the whirlpool we had was
warped at puddline at an edge.

It can be removed with some care. As long as the new tub is the same or
larger, it can be fit properly. If the new tub is smaller, that could be a
PITA.

On 10-Jul-2005, "FDR"
wrote:

Ugly grout line at vanity. Tub is now effectivley locked
in and would take ripping the tiles up to replace it if it
failed.

kitchen base cabinets are one thing. are you suggesting
that built in tubs should be tiled under?

ml

FDR wrote:
"Rick" wrote in message
nk.net...

"FDR" wrote in message
.. .


I have a bathroom done the second way and it looks like ****.

Specifics?



Ugly grout line at vanity.


If you have tile on the toekick there'll be a joint at the transition to
the floor regardless. If it's a field joint that's close to the toekick
that looks unsightly it could be the layout could have been adjusted.
B'sides, you could have ended up with that issue even if the tile went
first anyway.

Tub is now effectivley locked in and would take
ripping the tiles up to replace it if it failed.

'Ripped' up? They can be carefully and cleanly removed given the right
person and a few tools.

We almost had to when the
whirlpool we had was warped at puddline at an edge. Luckily we found
somebody that repairs acrylic and could heat it and bend it back to the
right pitch.




It's advisable to always have extra tile stored.

Bill wrote:
I want to remodel my entire kitchen, including adding ceramic tile flooring.
Is it better to:

1) Remove all cabinets & appliances and tile the entire floor? Then replace
the cabinets & appliances over the new tile?

OR

2) Replace and fix all cabinets first, then only tile up to the cabinets?

Thanks.



Tile last, just make sure you have the room from tile to base
cabinet counter top to fit your dishwasher in. I can't tell you how
many times the tile guys tile into the dishwasher opening and guess
what dishwasher would not fit. If questionable have them leave the
front tiles out or you will never get it in. If you install the
dishwasher before tiling, if it ever goes bad you may have to
remove the front tiles to get it out.

Rich

--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Linux user #291570
Remove "nospam" to email

In article , G Henslee wrote:

Ayup. It makes little to no sense to tile first on residential floors
prior to cabinets, etc. What little time and few cuts one saves by
doing so is far outweighed by possible hassles later.

Even though both methods are recommended here, IMHO those that recommend
tile first are not pros or have done very little in the way of remodelng
or tile installation.

To the contrary, it appears that you haven't ever seen a dishwasher that was
installed *before* the tile went down... and now needs to be replaced.

Tile first.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

In article , "Bill" wrote:
I want to remodel my entire kitchen, including adding ceramic tile flooring.
Is it better to:

1) Remove all cabinets & appliances and tile the entire floor? Then replace
the cabinets & appliances over the new tile?

OR

2) Replace and fix all cabinets first, then only tile up to the cabinets?

Picture this: you've installed the cabinets, and an under-counter dishwasher,
before tiling. It's three years later. Your dishwasher needs service or
replacement. But there's a half-inch-thick lip of ceramic tile that it won't
come over.

Which way do you think is better?

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

"Doug Miller" wrote in message news:NauAe.330

Picture this: you've installed the cabinets, and an under-counter
dishwasher,
before tiling. It's three years later. Your dishwasher needs service or
replacement. But there's a half-inch-thick lip of ceramic tile that it
won't
come over.

Which way do you think is better?

Tile last, BUT tile under the DW. Or at least some leveling material such
as cement board.

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , G Henslee wrote:


Ayup. It makes little to no sense to tile first on residential floors
prior to cabinets, etc. What little time and few cuts one saves by
doing so is far outweighed by possible hassles later.

Even though both methods are recommended here, IMHO those that recommend
tile first are not pros or have done very little in the way of remodelng
or tile installation.


To the contrary, it appears that you haven't ever seen a dishwasher that was
installed *before* the tile went down... and now needs to be replaced.

Tile first.


I've seen hundreds. bfd.

If you'd read the entire thread you would have seen that I recommended
the space under the d/w be tiled first. Tile last.

Oh, and save your breath Miller. I've already seen you in action around
here and right or *wrong* you tend to argue the point infinitesimally
for arguments sake. I mostly don't respect your advice, and won't waste
my time with you.

-end of subject-

Doug Miller wrote:


Picture this: you've installed the cabinets, and an under-counter dishwasher,
before tiling.


Broken record.

-end of subject-

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
news:NluAe.1532$1%4.1457@trndny02...

"Doug Miller" wrote in message news:NauAe.330

Picture this: you've installed the cabinets, and an under-counter
dishwasher,
before tiling. It's three years later. Your dishwasher needs service or
replacement. But there's a half-inch-thick lip of ceramic tile that it
won't
come over.

Which way do you think is better?

Tile last, BUT tile under the DW. Or at least some leveling material such
as cement board.


Doesn't that screw up the height of the dw compared to the cabinets? Don't
you have to also raise the surrounding cabinets the same amount with
plywood?

"Doug Miller" wrote

Picture this: you've installed the cabinets, and an under-counter
dishwasher,
before tiling. It's three years later. Your dishwasher needs service or
replacement. But there's a half-inch-thick lip of ceramic tile that it
won't
come over.

That's the exact reason for adjustable legs on dishwashers.

For general updating a room, flooring is the first to go besides painting.
Could you imagine someone attempting to change a tile floor with cabinets
sitting on them?

BTW, all new construction in this area, flooring is the last material
installed, besides a shoe mold.

Wait a sec if you tile last and tile under DW where what how isnt your
countertop only resting on the DW and not the cabinets?

On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 13:19:41 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski"
wrote:


"Doug Miller" wrote in message news:NauAe.330

Picture this: you've installed the cabinets, and an under-counter
dishwasher,
before tiling. It's three years later. Your dishwasher needs service or
replacement. But there's a half-inch-thick lip of ceramic tile that it
won't
come over.

Which way do you think is better?

Tile last, BUT tile under the DW. Or at least some leveling material such
as cement board.

Henslee's right.

One word of caution: make sure the DW fits after the tile's applied.
Most DWs are designed to be installed over (normal) ceramic tile, but
I've encountered extra-thick tile that will cause a problem. In this
case, a new DW should be purchased, installed and tested, and
tested, and tested....then the Piazza flooring be installed.

Also, Bosch DWs may be too tall to be installed over the tile.
Highly-rated Kenmore DWs are 1/2" short so will fit over most tile.

Also, I've had to replace a tile floor where the tile was installed
under the cabinets. It can be done, but it's truly painful to score
and break the tile at the edge of the cab. Remember, there's a recess
for the toe-kick. It can be done, but it added to my estimate, and to
the customer's cost.

Rock



On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 14:07:32 -0700, G Henslee
wrote:

Bill wrote:
I want to remodel my entire kitchen, including adding ceramic tile flooring.
Is it better to:

1) Remove all cabinets & appliances and tile the entire floor? Then replace
the cabinets & appliances over the new tile?

OR

2) Replace and fix all cabinets first, then only tile up to the cabinets?

Thanks.



99.9% of the time it's #2. At least it is in CA. All the rough work
gets done first incl. setting the cabs, then the tile follows. In the
event you replace the floor at a later time it's a much easier chore as
well. I recommend you tile under the dishwasher before it's installation.