Do I have an underground oil tank?
 

My 150 year old house is now heated by gas. In fact, gas service has
been in the house for probably more than 100 years since there are
pipes in the walls from old gas lighting.

Looking around the basement the other day, I noticed a small stub of a
flexible 3/8" OD copper pipe peeking up from the concrete floor (it is
in the area where I believe the old boiler was from long before we
bought the house).

The inside of the pipe smelled of oil/grease and when I stuck a stiff
wire down the pipe it seemed to run at least 2 feet horizontally just below the
cement surface. Pulling back the wire, it was covered with an
oily/greasy residue.

Does this signal that there was oil heat at some time or worse, the
presence of an old underground oil tank beneath the basement?
If not, what else could this small diameter pipe have been used for?


We have no other evidence of there ever being oil heat or oil tanks in
our house.

It sounds like that is an oil line. If there is only one line, the tank
would be located nearby. If the line is heading in the direction of an
outside wall, I'd look on the outside of the house, where the line is
heading. Dig about a foot or two away from the foundation and you may find
it. Sometimes an opening was cut in the top of the tank and they were filled
with sand, dirt, etc
"doggedyfight" wrote in message
...
My 150 year old house is now heated by gas. In fact, gas service has
been in the house for probably more than 100 years since there are
pipes in the walls from old gas lighting.

Looking around the basement the other day, I noticed a small stub of a
flexible 3/8" OD copper pipe peeking up from the concrete floor (it is
in the area where I believe the old boiler was from long before we
bought the house).

The inside of the pipe smelled of oil/grease and when I stuck a stiff
wire down the pipe it seemed to run at least 2 feet horizontally just
below the
cement surface. Pulling back the wire, it was covered with an
oily/greasy residue.

Does this signal that there was oil heat at some time or worse, the
presence of an old underground oil tank beneath the basement?
If not, what else could this small diameter pipe have been used for?


We have no other evidence of there ever being oil heat or oil tanks in
our house.

"RBM" rbm2(remove wrote in message
...
It sounds like that is an oil line. If there is only one line, the tank
would be located nearby. If the line is heading in the direction of an
outside wall, I'd look on the outside of the house, where the line is
heading. Dig about a foot or two away from the foundation and you may find
it. Sometimes an opening was cut in the top of the tank and they were
filled
with sand, dirt, etc
"doggedyfight" wrote in message
...
My 150 year old house is now heated by gas. In fact, gas service has
been in the house for probably more than 100 years since there are
pipes in the walls from old gas lighting.

Looking around the basement the other day, I noticed a small stub of a
flexible 3/8" OD copper pipe peeking up from the concrete floor (it is
in the area where I believe the old boiler was from long before we
bought the house).

The inside of the pipe smelled of oil/grease and when I stuck a stiff
wire down the pipe it seemed to run at least 2 feet horizontally just
below the
cement surface. Pulling back the wire, it was covered with an
oily/greasy residue.

Does this signal that there was oil heat at some time or worse, the
presence of an old underground oil tank beneath the basement?
If not, what else could this small diameter pipe have been used for?


We have no other evidence of there ever being oil heat or oil tanks in
our house.



I wouldn't pursue this. Forget you ever saw that line.

Cut the line as close to the floor as you can, and put something over it to
cover it.

EPA is really miserable about underground tanks. And it's expensive to dig
them out and back fill.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"Jim Ranieri" heck no wrote in message
...


Does this signal that there was oil heat at some time or worse, the
presence of an old underground oil tank beneath the basement?
If not, what else could this small diameter pipe have been used for?


We have no other evidence of there ever being oil heat or oil tanks in
our house.



I wouldn't pursue this. Forget you ever saw that line.

Uncovering an oil tank could cost you thousands of dollars - keep it
quiet becaue if some inspector comes around - you could get screwed
really badly. Years ago bought an old house with a furnace covered
with asbestos - found out it would cost an arm and a leg to get rid of
that thing - it went away quietly and some abatement contractor did not
get into me for thousands of dollars.

Let sleeping dogs lie.

Rejoice. Maybe you struck oil. This may become a gusher.

--
Walter
www.rationality.net
-
"doggedyfight" wrote in message
...
My 150 year old house is now heated by gas. In fact, gas service has
been in the house for probably more than 100 years since there are
pipes in the walls from old gas lighting.

Looking around the basement the other day, I noticed a small stub of a
flexible 3/8" OD copper pipe peeking up from the concrete floor (it is
in the area where I believe the old boiler was from long before we
bought the house).

The inside of the pipe smelled of oil/grease and when I stuck a stiff
wire down the pipe it seemed to run at least 2 feet horizontally just
below the
cement surface. Pulling back the wire, it was covered with an
oily/greasy residue.

Does this signal that there was oil heat at some time or worse, the
presence of an old underground oil tank beneath the basement?
If not, what else could this small diameter pipe have been used for?


We have no other evidence of there ever being oil heat or oil tanks in
our house.

RBM (remove this) wrote:
It sounds like that is an oil line. If there is only one line, the tank
would be located nearby. If the line is heading in the direction of an
outside wall, I'd look on the outside of the house, where the line is
heading. Dig about a foot or two away from the foundation and you may find
it. Sometimes an opening was cut in the top of the tank and they were filled
with sand, dirt, etc
"doggedyfight" wrote in message
...
My 150 year old house is now heated by gas. In fact, gas service has
been in the house for probably more than 100 years since there are
pipes in the walls from old gas lighting.

Looking around the basement the other day, I noticed a small stub of a
flexible 3/8" OD copper pipe peeking up from the concrete floor (it is
in the area where I believe the old boiler was from long before we
bought the house).

The inside of the pipe smelled of oil/grease and when I stuck a stiff
wire down the pipe it seemed to run at least 2 feet horizontally just
below the
cement surface. Pulling back the wire, it was covered with an
oily/greasy residue.

Does this signal that there was oil heat at some time or worse, the
presence of an old underground oil tank beneath the basement?
If not, what else could this small diameter pipe have been used for?


We have no other evidence of there ever being oil heat or oil tanks in
our house.

The tank could equally well have been in the basement. Look for
evidence of patched-up holes in the basement walls where the old fill
and vent pipes used to go through. In the best case you'll find the
other end of the 3/8 line.

Chip C
Toronto

doggedyfight wrote:

My 150 year old house is now heated by gas. In fact, gas service has
been in the house for probably more than 100 years since there are
pipes in the walls from old gas lighting.

Looking around the basement the other day, I noticed a small stub of a
flexible 3/8" OD copper pipe peeking up from the concrete floor (it is
in the area where I believe the old boiler was from long before we
bought the house).

The inside of the pipe smelled of oil/grease and when I stuck a stiff
wire down the pipe it seemed to run at least 2 feet horizontally just below the
cement surface. Pulling back the wire, it was covered with an
oily/greasy residue.

Does this signal that there was oil heat at some time or worse, the
presence of an old underground oil tank beneath the basement?
If not, what else could this small diameter pipe have been used for?

We have no other evidence of there ever being oil heat or oil tanks in
our house.

Contrary to the others, I'd be cautious in trying to hide it too
cleverly--

I wouldn't worry about doing anything about it, but if you attempt to
cover it over and during a sale don't follow the particular rules
regarding disclosure applicable to your state you would really be
opening yourself to a liability issue were the obvious attempt to hide
it be discovered by an inspector for the purchaser, for example. I'd
put it back as it was and go on. If it were in my plans to be selling
the property sometime in the near future, I'd investigate throroughly
what is required in your state.

Duane Bozarth wrote:

doggedyfight wrote:


....story about finding what could be old oil supply line...

We have no other evidence of there ever being oil heat or oil tanks in
our house.

Contrary to the others, I'd be cautious in trying to hide it too
cleverly--

....snip previous cautionary note against just burying the evidence...

Sorry, intended to add one other note...

It's also quite possible the tank was removed when the gas was installed
or at a later time. If there's no evidence for having had a tank in the
basement, I'd suspect it having been outside rather than under the
basement floor although that is possible. Look for evidence of interior
mounting, etc., first, then for external vent/fill pipes.

"doggedyfight" wrote in message
...
My 150 year old house is now heated by gas. In fact, gas service has
been in the house for probably more than 100 years since there are
pipes in the walls from old gas lighting.

Looking around the basement the other day, I noticed a small stub of a
flexible 3/8" OD copper pipe peeking up from the concrete floor (it is
in the area where I believe the old boiler was from long before we
bought the house).

The inside of the pipe smelled of oil/grease and when I stuck a stiff
wire down the pipe it seemed to run at least 2 feet horizontally just
below the
cement surface. Pulling back the wire, it was covered with an
oily/greasy residue.

Does this signal that there was oil heat at some time or worse, the
presence of an old underground oil tank beneath the basement?
If not, what else could this small diameter pipe have been used for?


We have no other evidence of there ever being oil heat or oil tanks in
our house.

Did you have the home inspected when you bought it? If they missed it most
others would. Like others suggeted I'd cut it down. You could break up the
area around it cut it down below the surface throw on a concrete patch and
paint the whole floor gray.

"Duane Bozarth" wrote in message
...
doggedyfight wrote:



Contrary to the others, I'd be cautious in trying to hide it too
cleverly--

I agree. You could say you had no idea what it was and that you just cut it
off because it was unsightly.

There's a fine line between making it aesthetically pleasing by covering it
up, and making it look like you were trying to make its discovery difficult.

Technically you're in the clear anyway. If you had to ask here then you
really _didn't_ know there was an underground tank.

;-)

- Stormin Mormon -
EPA is really miserable about underground tanks. And it's expensive to
dig
them out and back fill.

- Nehmo –
When I did a job like this, an agency of the state government, The
Missouri Department of Natural Resources had jurisdiction. Since it
wasn't commercial property, I didn't need any paperwork, permit, or
inspection. I was obligated to report a spill if I discovered one.

I didn’t actually remove the tank; I already told the story:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...d638a8f1?hl=en


--
|||||||||||||||| Nehmo Sergheyev ||||||||||||||||

On Fri, 27 May 2005 04:05:43 GMT, doggedyfight
wrote:

My 150 year old house is now heated by gas. In fact, gas service has
been in the house for probably more than 100 years since there are
pipes in the walls from old gas lighting.

Looking around the basement the other day, I noticed a small stub of a
flexible 3/8" OD copper pipe peeking up from the concrete floor (it is
in the area where I believe the old boiler was from long before we
bought the house).

The inside of the pipe smelled of oil/grease and when I stuck a stiff
wire down the pipe it seemed to run at least 2 feet horizontally just below the
cement surface. Pulling back the wire, it was covered with an
oily/greasy residue.

Does this signal that there was oil heat at some time or worse, the
presence of an old underground oil tank beneath the basement?
If not, what else could this small diameter pipe have been used for?


We have no other evidence of there ever being oil heat or oil tanks in
our house.

I agree with the 'keep quiet' and destroy the evidence advice above.
It could easily cost you over $ 10,000 if the EPA and the local
authorities fing out and then have their way with you.

On Fri, 27 May 2005 04:05:43 GMT, doggedyfight
wrote:

My 150 year old house is now heated by gas. In fact, gas service has
been in the house for probably more than 100 years since there are
pipes in the walls from old gas lighting.

Looking around the basement the other day, I noticed a small stub of a
flexible 3/8" OD copper pipe peeking up from the concrete floor (it is
in the area where I believe the old boiler was from long before we
bought the house).

The inside of the pipe smelled of oil/grease and when I stuck a stiff
wire down the pipe it seemed to run at least 2 feet horizontally just below the
cement surface. Pulling back the wire, it was covered with an
oily/greasy residue.

sounds like you have an oil tank buried on your property! If you go
straight to the nearest outside wall of the house from the point where
you see the copper tubing , there is probably a tank buried beside the
house. You can make a probe out of a piece of wire about five feet
long , put a wooden handle on one end of the rod and push the wire
into the ground at least three feet deep in the area where you suspect
a tank is buried...you may hit a solid metal object as you repeatedly
plunge the metal probe into the ground...

Most likely it is not buried under your basement floor but rather
beside the house outdoors where the oil delivery man could easily pull
his hose from his truck to fill the tank with fuel oil.

Regards,
Bill

On Sat, 28 May 2005 08:11:09 -0500, JimL wrote:

I agree with the 'keep quiet' and destroy the evidence advice above.
It could easily cost you over $ 10,000 if the EPA and the local
authorities fing out and then have their way with you.

if the EPA was able to do that to American homeowners there would be a
revolt in this country and the EPA would be disbanded permanently!

That's one of those old wives tales told by retail gas station
operators who have cried the blues over the EPA objecting to their
massive spills of gasoline into water supplies...those clean up
requirements have absolutely nothing to do with a homeowner who simply
has a fuel oil storage tank at his house used for heating oil at his
house that is not sold in retail commerce.

The United States Environmental Protection Agency does not care if you
have a fuel oil tank in your backyard...there are some municipal
governments in the "rust belt" states who have stupid ordinances
regarding backyard tanks along with outrageous property taxes...I
guess thats why most folks are moving out of those areas into the
"red" states...

Bill

On Fri, 27 May 2005 04:05:43 GMT, doggedyfight
wrote:


The inside of the pipe smelled of oil/grease and when I stuck a stiff
wire down the pipe it seemed to run at least 2 feet horizontally just below the
cement surface. Pulling back the wire, it was covered with an
oily/greasy residue.



Why not get a long plumbing snake and see how far it gets into the
ground and what comes out stuck to the snake. A better solution will
be to rent an endoscope if there is such a thing. This will allow you
to see inside. Beyond that, as the other guys said, let sleeping dogs
lie. If you didn't notice the stub when you bought the house you can
deny knowing any details about it when you sell.

Bill writes:
On Sat, 28 May 2005 08:11:09 -0500, JimL wrote:

I agree with the 'keep quiet' and destroy the evidence advice above.
It could easily cost you over $ 10,000 if the EPA and the local
authorities fing out and then have their way with you.

if the EPA was able to do that to American homeowners there would be a
revolt in this country and the EPA would be disbanded permanently!

That's one of those old wives tales told by retail gas station
operators who have cried the blues over the EPA objecting to their
massive spills of gasoline into water supplies...those clean up
requirements have absolutely nothing to do with a homeowner who simply
has a fuel oil storage tank at his house used for heating oil at his
house that is not sold in retail commerce.

The United States Environmental Protection Agency does not care if you
have a fuel oil tank in your backyard...there are some municipal
governments in the "rust belt" states who have stupid ordinances
regarding backyard tanks along with outrageous property taxes...I
guess thats why most folks are moving out of those areas into the
"red" states...

Bill

I don't know whether it is EPA or local government, but the
Authorities here in the Northeast are equally strict.

We lived in a 25 unit condo and for years properties changed hands
without anybody even suspecting an underground tank. Then one buyer
had an inspector that followed some old pipes and claimed there was an
underground tank centered our backyard parking lot (which is about 100
ft x 400 feet)

Now this tank had not been used for probably 50 years and it was
surrounded by a sea of asphalt parking lot. Also, nobody in our town
has wells.

Yet, we ended up being forced to bring in some EPA-certified abatement
contractor who dug a huge hole in our parking lot. He was required to
keep removing dirt until his test kit could no longer detect any
traces of hydrocarbons.

Total cost was about $25K. All because of a nosy buyer/inspector. The
heartache of it all is that it is not even clear that the
"environment" is any better off for this...

blueman wrote:
....
I don't know whether it is EPA or local government, but the
Authorities here in the Northeast are equally strict.

We lived in a 25 unit condo and for years properties changed hands
without anybody even suspecting an underground tank. Then one buyer
had an inspector that followed some old pipes and claimed there was an
underground tank centered our backyard parking lot (which is about 100
ft x 400 feet)

Now this tank had not been used for probably 50 years and it was
surrounded by a sea of asphalt parking lot. Also, nobody in our town
has wells.

Yet, we ended up being forced to bring in some EPA-certified abatement
contractor who dug a huge hole in our parking lot. He was required to
keep removing dirt until his test kit could no longer detect any
traces of hydrocarbons.

Total cost was about $25K. All because of a nosy buyer/inspector. The
heartache of it all is that it is not even clear that the
"environment" is any better off for this...

From EPA web site at http://www.epa.gov/swerust1/faqs/heatoil.htm

Tanks used for the storage of heating oil for consumptive use on the
premises where stored are excluded from federal UST regulations.
However, state or territorial regulatory agencies may regulate these
tanks. You can view a map showing which states
regulate these tanks but note that this data is from the Petroleum
Equipment Institute Web site and may not be up-to-date. You should
contact your local regulatory agency for more information.

The map:
http://www.epa.gov/swerust1/graphics/heatoil1.gif

Mostly the NE, everything NE of VA/WVA w/ the exception of PA, NJ and VT

Only others are those around the Great Lakes (MI, IL, WI) and somewhat
surprisingly, in the Red States, KS, NE and MT.

The contact page--http://www.epa.gov/swerust1/states/statcon1.htm

HTH....

PaPaPeng wrote:

On Fri, 27 May 2005 04:05:43 GMT, doggedyfight
wrote:


The inside of the pipe smelled of oil/grease and when I stuck a stiff
wire down the pipe it seemed to run at least 2 feet horizontally just below the
cement surface. Pulling back the wire, it was covered with an
oily/greasy residue.


Why not get a long plumbing snake and see how far it gets into the
ground and what comes out stuck to the snake. A better solution will
be to rent an endoscope if there is such a thing. This will allow you
to see inside. Beyond that, as the other guys said, let sleeping dogs
lie. If you didn't notice the stub when you bought the house you can
deny knowing any details about it when you sell.

Unfortunately, depending on the location and the circumstances that
may not be sufficient to idemnify one on sale, depending on the locale
and the local disclosure laws.