Building shade structure for home ac condenser?
 

I live in the Houston Texas area and my house is cooled by a whole
house ac. I have an efficient unit but I think that it would run
even better if the condensor didn't sit directly under the hot sun in
the middle of the day. My thought is that I would build a structure
to give it shade. I would be interested in hearing from people who
have done this and suggestions of websites for possible designs.

Thanks, Al Kondo

"Al Kondo" wrote in message
...
I live in the Houston Texas area and my house is cooled by a whole
house ac. I have an efficient unit but I think that it would run
even better if the condensor didn't sit directly under the hot sun in
the middle of the day. My thought is that I would build a structure
to give it shade. I would be interested in hearing from people who
have done this and suggestions of websites for possible designs.

Thanks, Al Kondo

This is Turtle.

I don't see the great need for this to be done but I have seen it and done it
for customer for years with the shade to the condenser and it is very easy to do
and does not take any great thinking to do it. You only need to put a one side
structure up to shade your condenser and don't need to enclose it. Go out at
1:00 P.M. in the day and stand close to the condenser and put your arms up in
the air and shade the condenser at this time. This will be the hieghth of the
one sided wall and just have it wide enough to cover the condenser till dark.
Now some people prefer a 2 sided wall for looks and that is fine too. You can
hide it this away too.

Now building the structure : Use 4 X 4 Lawn timbers for the post and board
fencing boards for the cross member to shade with. Most Shade will have to be 6
foot or more to shade properly.

Now a good ideal is to keep the fence atleast 24" from the condenser coil to
make sure it plenty of air.

I'm from Louisiana and do HVAC/R for a living , but i too will not object to the
shade even when the hvac industry can show you of it's very small savings. It
has got to save more than just a small amount like they say.

TURTLE

I'm in NY, where this is less of a concern. YOu'll get an assortment of
opinions, but I'm for shading condensors. I don't remember the specs for how
far off the top, but figure three feet or so, and open on the sides.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"Al Kondo" wrote in message
...
I live in the Houston Texas area and my house is cooled by a whole
house ac. I have an efficient unit but I think that it would run
even better if the condensor didn't sit directly under the hot sun in
the middle of the day. My thought is that I would build a structure
to give it shade. I would be interested in hearing from people who
have done this and suggestions of websites for possible designs.

Thanks, Al Kondo

Al Kondo wrote:
: I live in the Houston Texas area and my house is cooled by a whole
: house ac. I have an efficient unit but I think that it would run
: even better if the condensor didn't sit directly under the hot sun in
: the middle of the day. My thought is that I would build a structure
: to give it shade. I would be interested in hearing from people who
: have done this and suggestions of websites for possible designs.

FWIW my brother lives in Phoenix and his unit sits on the roof of his
house and thats the norm out there.

Al Kondo wrote:
I live in the Houston Texas area and my house is cooled by a whole
house ac. I have an efficient unit but I think that it would run
even better if the condensor didn't sit directly under the hot sun in
the middle of the day. My thought is that I would build a structure
to give it shade. I would be interested in hearing from people who
have done this and suggestions of websites for possible designs.

Thanks, Al Kondo

You'll get a million opinions and tons of pseudo-science.

Or you can examine a well-conducted study:

http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/bldg/pubs/pf302/

According to TURTLE :
Now building the structure : Use 4 X 4 Lawn timbers for the post and board
fencing boards for the cross member to shade with. Most Shade will have to be 6
foot or more to shade properly.

Now a good ideal is to keep the fence atleast 24" from the condenser coil to
make sure it plenty of air.

I should think you could cut that 24" down to much less (with
a suitably lower overall height and less of an overall eyesore)
if you arranged for _lots_ of side ventilation.

Ie: don't run the walls to the ground, leave as much of the skirting
open as you can.

If you can find (or make) cheap louver panels, use them instead of
solid panels.

Etc.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

We conclude that any savings produced by localized AC condenser shading are
quite modest (3%) and that the risk of interrupting air flow to the
condenser may outweigh shading considerations. The preferred strategy may be
a long-term one: locating AC condensers in an unobstructed location on the
shaded north side of buildings and depending on extensive site and
neighborhood-level landscaping to lower localized air temperatures.

What a conclusion! I notice they only studied one or two adress, and that
they concluded not to block air flow.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"Robert Barr" wrote in message

You'll get a million opinions and tons of pseudo-science.

Or you can examine a well-conducted study:

http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/bldg/pubs/pf302/

Al Kondo wrote:
I live in the Houston Texas area and my house is cooled by a whole
house ac. I have an efficient unit but I think that it would run
even better if the condensor didn't sit directly under the hot sun in
the middle of the day. My thought is that I would build a structure
to give it shade. I would be interested in hearing from people who
have done this and suggestions of websites for possible designs.

Thanks, Al Kondo

I could be wrong, I have not done the numbers, but it would seem to me
there would be very little to gain but doing it. The heat gain by the sun
has got to be low compared to the heat gain from the coolant.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
...
Al Kondo wrote:
I live in the Houston Texas area and my house is cooled by a whole
house ac. I have an efficient unit but I think that it would run
even better if the condensor didn't sit directly under the hot sun in
the middle of the day. My thought is that I would build a structure
to give it shade. I would be interested in hearing from people who
have done this and suggestions of websites for possible designs.

Thanks, Al Kondo

I could be wrong, I have not done the numbers, but it would seem to me
there would be very little to gain but doing it. The heat gain by the sun
has got to be low compared to the heat gain from the coolant.

--
Joseph Meehan


Take it for what you think it is worth.

A book on my shelf, published when SEER's were lower claims up to a 20%
reduction in energy cost when the condenser is sheltered from mid day and
late afternoon sun.

Based on what I have read since I would think that high but I throw it out
for your consideration.


Colbyt

Make the top 10 feet above the unit with all sides open. Otherrwise
when the discharge air hits the underside of the shade, the air
recirculates back through the condensor coil. This costs you more than
the savings rou get from the shade. I have seen such shades and walls
built around the outdoor units. I have measured air entering the
condensors as much as 115 degrees on a 95 degree day. That is a heck
of a penalty for shading your unit. Plant a TALL shade tree. It will
shade the unit but not recirculate the air.

Stretch

"Chris Lewis" wrote in message
...
According to TURTLE :
Now building the structure : Use 4 X 4 Lawn timbers for the post and board
fencing boards for the cross member to shade with. Most Shade will have to be
6
foot or more to shade properly.

Now a good ideal is to keep the fence atleast 24" from the condenser coil to
make sure it plenty of air.

I should think you could cut that 24" down to much less (with
a suitably lower overall height and less of an overall eyesore)
if you arranged for _lots_ of side ventilation.


This is Turtle.

The Manufactor recommend minium 18" but would prefer 24" and so we can just
take the installation instruction and throw them out and put as close as you
want. Also the 24" is the space to work on that side without taking down the sun
block to work on it.

TURTLE

"Colbyt" wrote in message
...

"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
...
Al Kondo wrote:
I live in the Houston Texas area and my house is cooled by a whole
house ac. I have an efficient unit but I think that it would run
even better if the condensor didn't sit directly under the hot sun in
the middle of the day. My thought is that I would build a structure
to give it shade. I would be interested in hearing from people who
have done this and suggestions of websites for possible designs.

Thanks, Al Kondo

I could be wrong, I have not done the numbers, but it would seem to me
there would be very little to gain but doing it. The heat gain by the sun
has got to be low compared to the heat gain from the coolant.

--
Joseph Meehan


Take it for what you think it is worth.

A book on my shelf, published when SEER's were lower claims up to a 20%
reduction in energy cost when the condenser is sheltered from mid day and
late afternoon sun.

Based on what I have read since I would think that high but I throw it out
for your consideration.


Colbyt


This is Turtle.

when I was a ked working on hvac/r stuff in my father's business late 1950's
till 1990 the ideal of shading a condenser was a must , but now days all the
engineers and tom ,dick, and harry will tell you it make no difference.

Country boy theory : The hotter the condenser coil run or gets the higher the
head pressure will run and then will burn more electricity at a higher head
pressure. Call me the unknowing but i think it makes a difference.

TURTLE

Shading the condenser will not make the slightest difference, IMHO.

If trees or other shade producing structures provide shade for the house,
the house will not get as hot as when the house is subject to full sun.
Therefore, substantial savings in energy can be achieved by shading the
house.

However, shading a condenser is a totally different story. The cooling
efficiency of the condenser is solely dependent on the temperature of the
ambient air that is used to carry-off the heat generated by the condenser. A
lot of air is pushed through the condenser fins and shading the condenser
has no effect on the temperature of this cooling air. Just common sense.

Save your money.

Walter
The Happy Iconoclast www.rationality.net


"Al Kondo" wrote in message
...
I live in the Houston Texas area and my house is cooled by a whole
house ac. I have an efficient unit but I think that it would run
even better if the condensor didn't sit directly under the hot sun in
the middle of the day. My thought is that I would build a structure
to give it shade. I would be interested in hearing from people who
have done this and suggestions of websites for possible designs.

Thanks, Al Kondo

I moved mine inside a long time ago, where the air conditioning keeps
it cool.

"Walter R." wrote in message
However, shading a condenser is a totally different story. The cooling
efficiency of the condenser is solely dependent on the temperature of the
ambient air that is used to carry-off the heat generated by the condenser.
A lot of air is pushed through the condenser fins and shading the
condenser has no effect on the temperature of this cooling air. Just
common sense.

Save your money.


Did the laws of physics change?

Your conclusion that it does not save much may be correct, but your
reasoning is incorrect. The sun will cause the condenser and any exposed
fins to pick up some heat. The sun has been doing that for many years now.
The only question is how much heat is gained and how much can be saved by
shading and is there a payback. .

I think the report Stormy posted a link to says it all! Nothing like a
good study to lay this question to rest. Before we discuss this
further, everyone should read the report.

Stretch

I'm with you about the higher temps. The desert dwellers have known this for
years -- shade is cooler. AC guys have also known this, that lower head
pressure is.... like you say.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"TURTLE" wrote in message
...


This is Turtle.

when I was a ked working on hvac/r stuff in my father's business late 1950's
till 1990 the ideal of shading a condenser was a must , but now days all the
engineers and tom ,dick, and harry will tell you it make no difference.

Country boy theory : The hotter the condenser coil run or gets the higher
the
head pressure will run and then will burn more electricity at a higher head
pressure. Call me the unknowing but i think it makes a difference.

TURTLE

Mine's in the walk in freezer.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"Matt" wrote in message
oups.com...
I moved mine inside a long time ago, where the air conditioning keeps
it cool.

Thanks, chief, but someone else posted the link.

I read the report, they only tried one house, and it sounds like they coulda
done a better job designing the shade.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"stretch" wrote in message
oups.com...
I think the report Stormy posted a link to says it all! Nothing like a
good study to lay this question to rest. Before we discuss this
further, everyone should read the report.

Stretch

dont think it would help much , your still pullin in the same temp air
and if a shedcut down on airflow it would defeat the purpose.

Did you read the article on the web site (Link posted a couple days ago)?

It did mention hot air recirc.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


wrote in message
...
dont think it would help much , your still pullin in the same temp air
and if a shedcut down on airflow it would defeat the purpose.

Great idea. That reminds me of the marginally-educated kid
working at a retail store about a decade ago. He came up to
"help and advise" me when I was looking over power inverters.

He explained to me that they convert 12v DC battery power to
120v AC power. Duh. He also explained his secret idea for
unlimited free power:
1) Buy a large 12v battery, a large inverter and a large battery
charger. (You see where we are heading already).
2) Hook them in the obvious loop - Inverter attached to battery,
battery charger plugged into inverter, and the battery hooked
up to the battery charger. Wow! Now he would use the second
120v outlet from the inverter to power anything that he wanted
With free power!!

Gideon

Matt wrote in message
.com...
I moved mine inside a long time ago, where the air conditioning keeps
it cool.

Al,

There is considerable debate about the benefits of shading, although
I feel that it is helpful for a few reasons:

1) Modest energy savings which could add up considerably
over years.
2) Apperance. A nice screen or planting looks better than
than the AC unit.

Keep in mind that factories can often build something better and
less expensively than you and I can do on our own. If you decide
to add a screen, then consider doing a Google search. I found
this quickly, which shows an $80 reasonably attractive unit from
Target, on sale now for $40:


http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html...asin=B000083JS
Y

It has redwood coloring and a lattice design. The posts have
pointed ends which can be driven into the ground. The item
description is "Air Conditioner Screen - Natural", which will
help you if you have trouble with the link I provided above.

Forty dollars plus shipping. Even if you just get 1% energy savings,
you have to come out ahead on the purchase.

Good luck,
Gideon

================

Al Kondo wrote in message ...
I live in the Houston Texas area and my house is cooled by a whole
house ac. I have an efficient unit but I think that it would run
even better if the condensor didn't sit directly under the hot sun in
the middle of the day. My thought is that I would build a structure
to give it shade. I would be interested in hearing from people who
have done this and suggestions of websites for possible designs.

Thanks, Al Kondo

Edwin,

I couldn't agree more. The savings from shading may be modest,
but Walter's statement is poorly worded at best and poor science
at its worst. I assume that he just didn't phrase his reply carefully
this time.

A unit located in the sun is constantly picking up thermal energy from
the sun. That heat negatively impacts AC operating cost, although
there are questions about how much.

Imagine 3 AC outdoor units:
1) The first has a steady mist of cold water hitting the entire
exterior of the case. The cold water plus the thermal losses
from evaporation cool the case considerably. This is an
extreme simulation of "negative solar heating."
2) A normal unit located outdoors.
3) A unit with "modest-BTU" flames hitting all four sides. Point
four contractor propane heaters (jet engine style) at the 4
sides of the unit. This is an extreme simulation of solar
heating. Provide ambient air from a protected source and
path so that it is not being impacted by the heaters.

Which unit will operate most efficiently? Obviously, unit #1 which
simulates "negative solar radiation." Next is unit #2. Worst is unit
#3 which simulates extreme solar radiation.

Situations 1 and 3 above are extremes, but they illustrate the
fact that one cannot honestly say that "efficiency of the condenser
is solely dependent on the temperature of the ambient air." It may
very well be possible to say "direct solar input on the unit is trivial
compared to ambient air temperatures", but that is a very different
scientific statement.

Personally, I believe that gains from proper shading are modest
(1%-10%), but they are still relatively free and may also add cosmetic
benefits. I'm hoping to install a new AC system this year and I'll
go with the obvious choice - locating the compressor unit on the
North side of the house instead of the back (East) of the house.
That is quieter, better looking and certainly has to offer some minor
but significant energy savings.

Regarding the study on the impact of shading, it is important to
remember that this was a small study conducted by a university.

I interact on a continual basis with university professors and I
know that some have a lot of common sense and are good at
research. I also know that a lot of them don't know their ass from
a hole in the ground and are radically out of touch with the real
world. I live in a neighborhood full of PhD types and I spend a
lot of time helping them get their lawn mowers started in the
Spring, adjusting carbs, examining brakes on the car, helping
them avoid getting ripped off my mechanics & contractors, etc.
I'm no smarter than the regulars on this newsgroup, but I feel
like a DIY genius next to many university types.

One engineer on our street didn't understand why the trash
collectors aren't allowed to pick up dehumidifiers. When I mentioned
freon and the (alleged) destruction of the ozone layer, he said
"yes, but that is for refrigerators and air conditioners. A dehumidifier
doesn't need freon." Duh. He is currently having problems with
his Harley, which now leaks gasoline out of the carb when it is
running. The problem started after he had a performance shop
"soup up" his bike. I told him that this is a common problem on
Harleys after a new camshaft is installed and the factory original
manifold is still on the machine. The overlap between intake
and exhaust valves has been radically changed and raw gasoline
is getting blown back through the short manifold. My overeducated
neighbor won't believe that and prefers to believe the mechanics
who say "We didn't break your Harley. Give us a blank check and
a couple of weeks and we'll fix it."

Sorry about rambling so much. I'm just saying that you shouldn't
believe every over-educated nerd out there. And don't automatically
accept every university study as gospel.

One additional point - if the air conditioning is derived from a heat
pump setup which provides some or all heating in the winter, then
I'd suggest installing one of the following:
1) Deciduous plantings which will drop their leaves in the fall
and allow solar input on the unit in the Winter.
2) A wooden screen which can be easily removed and stored in
the shed over Winter.
You don't want solar input in the cooling season; you do want
it in the heating season.

Gideon

=========


Edwin Pawlowski wrote in message ...

"Walter R." wrote in message
However, shading a condenser is a totally different story. The cooling
efficiency of the condenser is solely dependent on the temperature of the
ambient air that is used to carry-off the heat generated by the condenser.
A lot of air is pushed through the condenser fins and shading the
condenser has no effect on the temperature of this cooling air. Just
common sense.

Save your money.


Did the laws of physics change?

Your conclusion that it does not save much may be correct, but your
reasoning is incorrect. The sun will cause the condenser and any exposed
fins to pick up some heat. The sun has been doing that for many years now.
The only question is how much heat is gained and how much can be saved by
shading and is there a payback. .

Turtle, -- where they really need shade is on flat tarred roofs. The heat
would burn through your shoes and you had to stand on insulation material,
yet I never saw any that were shaded. Hey, Government Energy Departments, a
lot of money spent on equipment damage and energy usage could be saved.
--
Air-Conditioning Efficiency - "Optimizing evaporator Coil 'Heat-Load Btu/hr
first,' is critical"

http://www.udarrell.com/air-conditio...ator-coil.html

"TURTLE" wrote in message
...

"Al Kondo" wrote in message
...
I live in the Houston Texas area and my house is cooled by a whole
house ac. I have an efficient unit but I think that it would run
even better if the condensor didn't sit directly under the hot sun in
the middle of the day. My thought is that I would build a structure
to give it shade. I would be interested in hearing from people who
have done this and suggestions of websites for possible designs.

Thanks, Al Kondo

This is Turtle.

I don't see the great need for this to be done but I have seen it and done
it
for customer for years with the shade to the condenser and it is very easy
to do
and does not take any great thinking to do it. You only need to put a one
side
structure up to shade your condenser and don't need to enclose it. Go out
at
1:00 P.M. in the day and stand close to the condenser and put your arms up
in
the air and shade the condenser at this time. This will be the height of
the
one sided wall and just have it wide enough to cover the condenser till
dark.
Now some people prefer a 2 sided wall for looks and that is fine too. You
can
hide it this away too.

Now building the structure : Use 4 X 4 Lawn timbers for the post and
board
fencing boards for the cross member to shade with. Most Shade will have to
be 6
foot or more to shade properly.

Now a good ideal is to keep the fence at least 24" from the condenser coil
to
make sure it plenty of air.

I'm from Louisiana and do HVAC/R for a living , but i too will not object
to the
shade even when the hvac industry can show you of it's very small savings.
It
has got to save more than just a small amount like they say.

TURTLE

According to Gideon :

There is considerable debate about the benefits of shading, although
I feel that it is helpful for a few reasons:

1) Modest energy savings which could add up considerably
over years.
2) Apperance. A nice screen or planting looks better than
than the AC unit.

I'd also add in lifespan. In some cases, ie: bright hot sun
on plastic parts, shading it may give it a bit longer life.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

According to udarrell :
Turtle, -- where they really need shade is on flat tarred roofs. The heat
would burn through your shoes and you had to stand on insulation material,
yet I never saw any that were shaded.

They're called _trees_. You have them down there, don't you?

The tree cover around our house makes a huge difference to A/C
requirements.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

"Chris Lewis" wrote in message
...
According to udarrell :

The tree cover around our house makes a huge difference to A/C
requirements.

I read that a good tree is equal to 12,500 Btu of cooling