Reversed Phone Line???
 

Hi, I have two problems:

1) I bought one of those telephone line testers made by GB Instruments for
$5. I plugged it in, and it came out as "red", which means "reversed line".
What does this mean?

I checked at the NID (the part inside the house), and only a red and green
line are connected there, with the yellow and black not connected and being
wrapped around the green and red; but my phone works fine.

BTW, I'm furious that the yellow and black wires are not connected, since I
am getting a second phone line in the next few months. Why would someone
install the phone line this way? Is this normally how the pros do it?

2) My other telephone jack in the house is testing as "dead", since no light
lights up on the tester. I checked at the NID in the house again, and the
red and green wires are connected there. I traced the line about half way,
in the basement, and it appeared to be ok. The other half was inaccessible,
since the landlord has about 1-2 feet of books, newspapers, magazines, etc.
piled on the entire floor, which is blocking my access to the part of the
basement where the line runs.

Does anyone know why my phone jack is reading dead? I haven't check the
actual jack yet.

Thanks!

"Steph in PA" wrote in message
...

BTW, I'm furious that the yellow and black wires are not connected, since
I am getting a second phone line in the next few months. Why would someone
install the phone line this way? Is this normally how the pros do it?


I'm ****ed because now I have to go back and repair someone's shoddy work. I
wish I could bill someone for this.

"Steph in PA" wrote in message
...
"Steph in PA" wrote in message
...

BTW, I'm furious that the yellow and black wires are not connected, since
I am getting a second phone line in the next few months. Why would
someone install the phone line this way? Is this normally how the pros do
it?


I'm ****ed because now I have to go back and repair someone's shoddy work.
I wish I could bill someone for this.

Do I need to disconnect the phone line at the NID outside the house before I
connect the yellow and black lines? The problem is there are two NID's, one
on each side of the house, with one being connected to the other via a line
that runs through the basement (there are three apartments in the house and
it looks like one NID was added late?)! And I can't get one open, and the
other just looks like a gray blob, half the size of the one I can't get
open.

Phone lines don't carry much voltage, do they?? So I don't need to worry
about geting shocked, especially if I use insulated screwdrivers???

Another thing is that it appears one of the phone lines leads to a door bell
ringer!!

"Steph in PA" wrote in message
...

Phone lines don't carry much voltage, do they?? So I don't need to worry
about geting shocked, especially if I use insulated screwdrivers???


Hardly any current...

Still, it will ring your chimes if someone happens to call you while your
there working on it.

~95 volts on incoming ring, IIRC....

If they all show reversed, suggest just swap wires at the nid box.

BTW :

Nobody but a hack uses red green yellow black anymore on new installs
anymore.

--

SVL

SVL is a hack
"PrecisionMachinisT" wrote in message
...

"Steph in PA" wrote in message
...

Phone lines don't carry much voltage, do they?? So I don't need to worry
about geting shocked, especially if I use insulated screwdrivers???


Hardly any current...

Still, it will ring your chimes if someone happens to call you while your
there working on it.

~95 volts on incoming ring, IIRC....

If they all show reversed, suggest just swap wires at the nid box.

BTW :

Nobody but a hack uses red green yellow black anymore on new installs
anymore.

--

SVL

Steph in PA wrote:
Hi, I have two problems:

1) I bought one of those telephone line testers made by GB Instruments for
$5. I plugged it in, and it came out as "red", which means "reversed line".
What does this mean?

I checked at the NID (the part inside the house), and only a red and green
line are connected there, with the yellow and black not connected and being
wrapped around the green and red; but my phone works fine.

BTW, I'm furious that the yellow and black wires are not connected, since I
am getting a second phone line in the next few months. Why would someone
install the phone line this way? Is this normally how the pros do it?

2) My other telephone jack in the house is testing as "dead", since no light
lights up on the tester. I checked at the NID in the house again, and the
red and green wires are connected there. I traced the line about half way,
in the basement, and it appeared to be ok. The other half was inaccessible,
since the landlord has about 1-2 feet of books, newspapers, magazines, etc.
piled on the entire floor, which is blocking my access to the part of the
basement where the line runs.

Does anyone know why my phone jack is reading dead? I haven't check the
actual jack yet.

Black and Yellow are to be used for a second line. You can purchase
line splitters.

Polarity reversal is how the determine whether you have a pulse dialing
system or a tone dialing.

In article , "Steph in PA" wrote:
Hi, I have two problems:

1) I bought one of those telephone line testers made by GB Instruments for
$5. I plugged it in, and it came out as "red", which means "reversed line".
What does this mean?

It means that the red and green wires are reversed somewhere between the
demarc box and the outlet.

I checked at the NID (the part inside the house), and only a red and green
line are connected there, with the yellow and black not connected and being
wrapped around the green and red; but my phone works fine.

That's because modern telephones need only the red and green.

BTW, I'm furious that the yellow and black wires are not connected, since I
am getting a second phone line in the next few months. Why would someone
install the phone line this way? Is this normally how the pros do it?

Yes, that is the way it's normally done, when installing a single phone line,
since only the red and green are needed. Calm down, take a deep breath, and
connect the yellow and black wires as well.

2) My other telephone jack in the house is testing as "dead", since no light
lights up on the tester. I checked at the NID in the house again, and the
red and green wires are connected there. I traced the line about half way,
in the basement, and it appeared to be ok.

Problem's in the other half, then. Probably. It's not unheard-of for there to
be a break inside the cable insulation, where it isn't visible.

The other half was inaccessible,
since the landlord has about 1-2 feet of books, newspapers, magazines, etc.
piled on the entire floor, which is blocking my access to the part of the
basement where the line runs.

I guess it must be pretty hard to move that stuff, huh?

Does anyone know why my phone jack is reading dead? I haven't check the
actual jack yet.

It's reading dead because isn't connected. There may be a break in the cable
somewhere, or one or both of the wires to that jack may not be connected to
the jack, or to whatever point they come from to supply that jack. Check the
connections at each end first. If both red and green are connected properly,
then check the entire length of the cable for damage, and repair or replace as
necessary.


--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

In article , "Steph in PA" wrote:
"Steph in PA" wrote in message
...

BTW, I'm furious that the yellow and black wires are not connected, since
I am getting a second phone line in the next few months. Why would someone
install the phone line this way? Is this normally how the pros do it?


I'm ****ed because now I have to go back and repair someone's shoddy work. I
wish I could bill someone for this.

Take a deep breath. It's not shoddy work. It's a perfectly normal single-line
installation.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

Hardly any current???? Hold the lines and wait for it
to ring. you'll feel that one!

In article . com, wrote:
Hardly any current???? Hold the lines and wait for it
to ring. you'll feel that one!

It's somewhere around 95 VAC, but the current is indeed very low.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

William W. Plummer wrote:
Steph in PA wrote:

Hi, I have two problems:

1) I bought one of those telephone line testers made by GB Instruments
for $5. I plugged it in, and it came out as "red", which means
"reversed line". What does this mean?

I checked at the NID (the part inside the house), and only a red and
green line are connected there, with the yellow and black not
connected and being wrapped around the green and red; but my phone
works fine.

BTW, I'm furious that the yellow and black wires are not connected,
since I am getting a second phone line in the next few months. Why
would someone install the phone line this way? Is this normally how
the pros do it?

2) My other telephone jack in the house is testing as "dead", since no
light lights up on the tester. I checked at the NID in the house
again, and the red and green wires are connected there. I traced the
line about half way, in the basement, and it appeared to be ok. The
other half was inaccessible, since the landlord has about 1-2 feet of
books, newspapers, magazines, etc. piled on the entire floor, which is
blocking my access to the part of the basement where the line runs.

Does anyone know why my phone jack is reading dead? I haven't check
the actual jack yet.


Black and Yellow are to be used for a second line. You can purchase
line splitters.

Polarity reversal is how the determine whether you have a pulse dialing
system or a tone dialing.
Wrong! You can pulse dial or touch tone on any
line. The receiver in the central office
takes either. The telephone central office can,
via software, not allow touch tones for those
who don't pay the extra fee although I think
today, it's mostly included. But, if you can
touch tone dial on a line, you most certainly can
dial pulse. Dial pulsing simply opens the
loop a number of times as the dial returns (9
pulses for a number 9, etc.). Most modern
telephone sets can work with the polarity reversed
on a single party line. Older sets will
work (it will ring, you can talk), but the touch
tone dial won't put out tones when you press
a button.

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
. ..
In article . com,
wrote:
Hardly any current???? Hold the lines and wait for it
to ring. you'll feel that one!

It's somewhere around 95 VAC, but the current is indeed very low.


The legacy POTS ringer is a classic example of a reactive AC circuit, and is
very sensitive to line frequency.

--

SVL

"Rick Slater" wrote in message
. ..
"PrecisionMachinisT" wrote in message
...

"Steph in PA" wrote in message
...

Phone lines don't carry much voltage, do they?? So I don't need to
worry
about geting shocked, especially if I use insulated screwdrivers???


Hardly any current...

Still, it will ring your chimes if someone happens to call you while
your
there working on it.

~95 volts on incoming ring, IIRC....

If they all show reversed, suggest just swap wires at the nid box.

BTW :

Nobody but a hack uses red green yellow black anymore on new installs
anymore.

SVL is a hack

Go screw yourself, you ****ing **** bitch troll.

--

SVL

According to Doug Miller :
In article . com, wrote:
Hardly any current???? Hold the lines and wait for it
to ring. you'll feel that one!

It's somewhere around 95 VAC, but the current is indeed very low.

Voltage even when it doesn't ring, is high enough to ring your chimes if you're
well-enough grounded.

[I tried to splice a phone line while sitting on a concrete floor.
I found that I couldn't. So I had to stand up ;-) ]
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

Art Todesco wrote:


William W. Plummer wrote:

Steph in PA wrote:

Hi, I have two problems:

1) I bought one of those telephone line testers made by GB
Instruments for $5. I plugged it in, and it came out as "red", which
means "reversed line". What does this mean?

I checked at the NID (the part inside the house), and only a red and
green line are connected there, with the yellow and black not
connected and being wrapped around the green and red; but my phone
works fine.

BTW, I'm furious that the yellow and black wires are not connected,
since I am getting a second phone line in the next few months. Why
would someone install the phone line this way? Is this normally how
the pros do it?

2) My other telephone jack in the house is testing as "dead", since
no light lights up on the tester. I checked at the NID in the house
again, and the red and green wires are connected there. I traced the
line about half way, in the basement, and it appeared to be ok. The
other half was inaccessible, since the landlord has about 1-2 feet of
books, newspapers, magazines, etc. piled on the entire floor, which
is blocking my access to the part of the basement where the line runs.

Does anyone know why my phone jack is reading dead? I haven't check
the actual jack yet.



Black and Yellow are to be used for a second line. You can purchase
line splitters.

Polarity reversal is how the determine whether you have a pulse
dialing system or a tone dialing.

Wrong! You can pulse dial or touch tone on any line. The receiver in
the central office
takes either. The telephone central office can, via software, not allow
touch tones for those
who don't pay the extra fee although I think today, it's mostly
included. But, if you can
touch tone dial on a line, you most certainly can dial pulse. Dial
pulsing simply opens the
loop a number of times as the dial returns (9 pulses for a number 9,
etc.). Most modern
telephone sets can work with the polarity reversed on a single party
line. Older sets will
work (it will ring, you can talk), but the touch tone dial won't put
out tones when you press
a button.

Sorry Art but you are the one that is wrong. When touch tone dialing
was first provided on subscriber lines polarity was how the use of TT
was limited to those who paid for it. The old 500 desk sets and similar
phones of that error had polarity specific touch pads. The polarity of
the line was reversed at the protector to prevent the use of touch tone
telephones on lines that had not paid the fee. Many residential
premises have reversed polarity on the internal wiring as a legacy of
that original practice.
--
Tom H

According to HorneTD :
Sorry Art but you are the one that is wrong. When touch tone dialing
was first provided on subscriber lines polarity was how the use of TT
was limited to those who paid for it. The old 500 desk sets and similar
phones of that error had polarity specific touch pads. The polarity of
the line was reversed at the protector to prevent the use of touch tone
telephones on lines that had not paid the fee. Many residential
premises have reversed polarity on the internal wiring as a legacy of
that original practice.

Some undoubtably worked that way.

Others didn't - it depends on the switch and telco. Some switches you simply
enabled/disabled tone on a line-by-line basis.

[We make telco switches (ie: DMS) that do that ;-)]

Line polarity was (like 30 years ago) also apparently used for a simplified
"2 customer" party line scheme. Where, instead of distinctive ring, the ring
was transmitted down the line in just one polarity, and only the phone with
the diode the right way around "heard it". My grandparents had that at
a cottage, and so apparently did my inlaws for a time.

Aside from these prehistoric setups, these days it rarely matters which
way around tip/ring, red/green are. Better to have it the right way around,
but...
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

HorneTD wrote:
Art Todesco wrote:



William W. Plummer wrote:

Steph in PA wrote:

Hi, I have two problems:

1) I bought one of those telephone line testers made by GB
Instruments for $5. I plugged it in, and it came out as "red", which
means "reversed line". What does this mean?

I checked at the NID (the part inside the house), and only a red and
green line are connected there, with the yellow and black not
connected and being wrapped around the green and red; but my phone
works fine.

BTW, I'm furious that the yellow and black wires are not connected,
since I am getting a second phone line in the next few months. Why
would someone install the phone line this way? Is this normally how
the pros do it?

2) My other telephone jack in the house is testing as "dead", since
no light lights up on the tester. I checked at the NID in the house
again, and the red and green wires are connected there. I traced the
line about half way, in the basement, and it appeared to be ok. The
other half was inaccessible, since the landlord has about 1-2 feet
of books, newspapers, magazines, etc. piled on the entire floor,
which is blocking my access to the part of the basement where the
line runs.

Does anyone know why my phone jack is reading dead? I haven't check
the actual jack yet.




Black and Yellow are to be used for a second line. You can purchase
line splitters.

Polarity reversal is how the determine whether you have a pulse
dialing system or a tone dialing.


Wrong! You can pulse dial or touch tone on any line. The receiver in
the central office
takes either. The telephone central office can, via software, not
allow touch tones for those
who don't pay the extra fee although I think today, it's mostly
included. But, if you can
touch tone dial on a line, you most certainly can dial pulse. Dial
pulsing simply opens the
loop a number of times as the dial returns (9 pulses for a number 9,
etc.). Most modern
telephone sets can work with the polarity reversed on a single party
line. Older sets will
work (it will ring, you can talk), but the touch tone dial won't put
out tones when you press
a button.


Sorry Art but you are the one that is wrong. When touch tone dialing
was first provided on subscriber lines polarity was how the use of TT
was limited to those who paid for it. The old 500 desk sets and similar
phones of that error had polarity specific touch pads. The polarity of
the line was reversed at the protector to prevent the use of touch tone
telephones on lines that had not paid the fee. Many residential
premises have reversed polarity on the internal wiring as a legacy of
that original practice.
--
Tom H
Tom, you may be right for some electromechanical
offices, however, ever since the
1ESS system (AT&T-Western Electric) came out in
the mid 60s, it was a software
controlled add on feature. But, even in the
electromechanical offices, step by step and
crossbar No.1 and No. 5, there were line groups
that could or could not access
touch tone receivers. I don't know about non
"Bell" offices.

My 1A2 KSU and keyset station arrived today....

Once the punchdown tool gets here, I get to choose between 25 pairs of
wires to connect backwards!

Chris Lewis wrote:
According to HorneTD :

Sorry Art but you are the one that is wrong. When touch tone dialing
was first provided on subscriber lines polarity was how the use of TT
was limited to those who paid for it. The old 500 desk sets and similar
phones of that error had polarity specific touch pads. The polarity of
the line was reversed at the protector to prevent the use of touch tone
telephones on lines that had not paid the fee. Many residential
premises have reversed polarity on the internal wiring as a legacy of
that original practice.


Some undoubtably worked that way.

Others didn't - it depends on the switch and telco. Some switches you simply
enabled/disabled tone on a line-by-line basis.

[We make telco switches (ie: DMS) that do that ;-)]

Line polarity was (like 30 years ago) also apparently used for a simplified
"2 customer" party line scheme. Where, instead of distinctive ring, the ring
was transmitted down the line in just one polarity, and only the phone with
the diode the right way around "heard it". My grandparents had that at
a cottage, and so apparently did my inlaws for a time.

Aside from these prehistoric setups, these days it rarely matters which
way around tip/ring, red/green are. Better to have it the right way around,
but...
Since ringing current is 20 HRZ AC that would not work. What was
commonly done in early practice was to connect the ringer between the
earth and one side of the line. In that way the ringing current could
be sent on tip or ring depending on which party had been called. That
system of ground return ringing was used on multi party lines so that
only half the subscribers would have to hear each ring signal.
--
Tom Horne

Art Todesco wrote:


HorneTD wrote:

Art Todesco wrote:



William W. Plummer wrote:

Steph in PA wrote:

Hi, I have two problems:

1) I bought one of those telephone line testers made by GB
Instruments for $5. I plugged it in, and it came out as "red",
which means "reversed line". What does this mean?

I checked at the NID (the part inside the house), and only a red
and green line are connected there, with the yellow and black not
connected and being wrapped around the green and red; but my phone
works fine.

BTW, I'm furious that the yellow and black wires are not connected,
since I am getting a second phone line in the next few months. Why
would someone install the phone line this way? Is this normally how
the pros do it?

2) My other telephone jack in the house is testing as "dead", since
no light lights up on the tester. I checked at the NID in the house
again, and the red and green wires are connected there. I traced
the line about half way, in the basement, and it appeared to be ok.
The other half was inaccessible, since the landlord has about 1-2
feet of books, newspapers, magazines, etc. piled on the entire
floor, which is blocking my access to the part of the basement
where the line runs.

Does anyone know why my phone jack is reading dead? I haven't check
the actual jack yet.





Black and Yellow are to be used for a second line. You can purchase
line splitters.

Polarity reversal is how the determine whether you have a pulse
dialing system or a tone dialing.



Wrong! You can pulse dial or touch tone on any line. The receiver
in the central office
takes either. The telephone central office can, via software, not
allow touch tones for those
who don't pay the extra fee although I think today, it's mostly
included. But, if you can
touch tone dial on a line, you most certainly can dial pulse. Dial
pulsing simply opens the
loop a number of times as the dial returns (9 pulses for a number 9,
etc.). Most modern
telephone sets can work with the polarity reversed on a single party
line. Older sets will
work (it will ring, you can talk), but the touch tone dial won't put
out tones when you press
a button.



Sorry Art but you are the one that is wrong. When touch tone dialing
was first provided on subscriber lines polarity was how the use of TT
was limited to those who paid for it. The old 500 desk sets and
similar phones of that error had polarity specific touch pads. The
polarity of the line was reversed at the protector to prevent the use
of touch tone telephones on lines that had not paid the fee. Many
residential premises have reversed polarity on the internal wiring as
a legacy of that original practice.
--
Tom H

Tom, you may be right for some electromechanical offices, however, ever since the
1ESS system (AT&T-Western Electric) came out in the mid 60s, it was a software
controlled add on feature. But, even in the electromechanical offices, step by step and
crossbar No.1 and No. 5, there were line groups that could or could not access
touch tone receivers. I don't know about non "Bell" offices.

Yes and the polarity was reversed at the protector when the subscribers
status changed to dial pulse only after the number was assigned to them.
--
Tom Horne

yea, reverse the third(&6/9/12/15) pair (lamp) and you blow the lamp
fuses in the ksu ;-)

-larry / dallas

and to stay on topic, if Steve's apt is wired with old quad wire
(classic red, green, black, yellow -NO TWISTED PAIRS) crosstalk is
horrible when you run two lines on it!



Matt wrote:

My 1A2 KSU and keyset station arrived today....

Once the punchdown tool gets here, I get to choose between 25 pairs of
wires to connect backwards!

Thks larry....

It's entirely possible, probably more like VERY likely - I'll be
needing some fuses shortly.

But where is the fun and learning if you don't **** things up from time
to time?

Ill let ya know what goes wrong.... updates to follow......