GFIC questions and problems
 

For a home built in 1983, does an inside laundry room outlet require GFIC
outlets (above the counter and close to the tub)? The laundry room is
between the garage and the living quarters.

My main panel has two GFIC breakers, but I noticed that half of the garage
outlets and most of the exterior outlets are *not* GIFC protected. So much
for home inspections. -- I guess I will have to replace the missing GFIC
outlets, all ten of them.

Thanks for any input
--
Walter
The Happy Iconoclast: www.rationality.net

----

Your 1983 house does not have to meet current code, unless you do
improvements on the areas in question. It would be good to have GFCI in
those areas, but code does not require it.

You are aware that if the first outlet on a circuit is GFCI, then all the
rest are as well, aren't you?

In article , "toller" wrote:
Your 1983 house does not have to meet current code, unless you do
improvements on the areas in question. It would be good to have GFCI in
those areas, but code does not require it.

You are aware that if the first outlet on a circuit is GFCI, then all the
rest are as well, aren't you?

I hope he's *not* aware of that, because it's a false statement. Or, at least,
it's not necessarily true.

GFCI receptacles *can* be wired to protect the remainder of the circuit, but
they don't *have* to be. Unless you pull it out to check the connections, or
verify the other receptacles with a tester, you have no way of knowing whether
this is true or not.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

In article , "Walter R." wrote:
For a home built in 1983, does an inside laundry room outlet require GFIC
outlets (above the counter and close to the tub)? The laundry room is
between the garage and the living quarters.

I'm not sure if this was required by Code in 1983 or not, but it's a good idea
regardless.

My main panel has two GFIC breakers, but I noticed that half of the garage
outlets and most of the exterior outlets are *not* GIFC protected. So much
for home inspections. -- I guess I will have to replace the missing GFIC
outlets, all ten of them.

First of all, how did you determine that these outlets are not GFCI protected?
Even if the receptacles are not, themselves, GFCIs, they may be protected by
one of the two GFCI breakers, or by another GFCI receptacle somewhere. If you
don't already have a plug-in tester to test GFCI-protected outlets, this would
be a good time to get one.

Second, there's no reason to replace all ten receptacles with GFCIs. You need
only one GFCI per circuit, if you wire it right - which is described, in
detail, in the manufacturer's instructions that accompany the device.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

According to this site, in my 1983 home, the garage outlets and exterior
outlets were required to be on GFCI circuits. Looks to me like a sloppy
electrician who put some of the outlets on the required GFCI breakers and
ignored the rest.

http://www.mikeholt.com/documents/ne...ment_page2.pdf

Is the info at this URL incorrect?

--
Walter
The Happy Iconoclast: www.rationality.net

----
"toller" wrote in message
...
Your 1983 house does not have to meet current code, unless you do
improvements on the areas in question. It would be good to have GFCI in
those areas, but code does not require it.

You are aware that if the first outlet on a circuit is GFCI, then all the
rest are as well, aren't you?

Hi Doug

I used one of those GFIC testers (with the test button).

--
Walter
The Happy Iconoclast: www.rationality.net

----
"Doug Miller" wrote in message
m...
In article , "Walter R."
wrote:
For a home built in 1983, does an inside laundry room outlet require GFIC
outlets (above the counter and close to the tub)? The laundry room is
between the garage and the living quarters.

I'm not sure if this was required by Code in 1983 or not, but it's a good
idea
regardless.

My main panel has two GFIC breakers, but I noticed that half of the garage
outlets and most of the exterior outlets are *not* GIFC protected. So much
for home inspections. -- I guess I will have to replace the missing GFIC
outlets, all ten of them.

First of all, how did you determine that these outlets are not GFCI
protected?
Even if the receptacles are not, themselves, GFCIs, they may be protected
by
one of the two GFCI breakers, or by another GFCI receptacle somewhere. If
you
don't already have a plug-in tester to test GFCI-protected outlets, this
would
be a good time to get one.

Second, there's no reason to replace all ten receptacles with GFCIs. You
need
only one GFCI per circuit, if you wire it right - which is described, in
detail, in the manufacturer's instructions that accompany the device.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

In article , "Walter R." wrote:
Hi Doug

I used one of those GFIC testers (with the test button).

OK, so you have actually confirmed that they're not protected, rather than
just assuming. That's not real good, but at least you know what you're dealing
with.

You did catch my last point, didn't you, about needing only one per *circuit*
(if you wire them right)?

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

Yes, that's my next project: Finding out precisely what circuits these
non-GFIC outlets are on.

Thanks

--
Walter
The Happy Iconoclast: www.rationality.net

----
"Doug Miller" wrote in message
. ..
In article , "Walter R."
wrote:
Hi Doug

I used one of those GFIC testers (with the test button).

OK, so you have actually confirmed that they're not protected, rather than
just assuming. That's not real good, but at least you know what you're
dealing
with.

You did catch my last point, didn't you, about needing only one per
*circuit*
(if you wire them right)?

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

"Walter R." wrote in message
...
According to this site, in my 1983 home, the garage outlets and exterior
outlets were required to be on GFCI circuits. Looks to me like a sloppy
electrician who put some of the outlets on the required GFCI breakers and
ignored the rest.

http://www.mikeholt.com/documents/ne...ment_page2.pdf

Is the info at this URL incorrect?

Pesumably Mr. Holt is accurate, but it doesn't much matter.
I wasn't doing electrical back then, so I don't know what code required, but
my house is also 1983 and only had GFCIs in the bathrooms. I would be
willing to bet it met code.

The local electrical code typically refers to a specific version of the NEC,
with some adjustments. The version specified is often not the latest. So,
the fact that the 1981 NEC called for GFCIs in the garage doesn't mean your
local code did. The local code could have referred to an old NEC, or it
could have specifically exempted garages; or the building inspector could
have made it know that he didn't care about garages.

Besides, what does it matter 22 years later? For $9 you can be a sport.

Sounds like a very sensible approach. You are saying then, for $ 9 I can buy
a GFIC outlet and forget about this problem?

Kind regards

--
Walter
The Happy Iconoclast: www.rationality.net

----
"toller" wrote in message
...

"Walter R." wrote in message
...
According to this site, in my 1983 home, the garage outlets and exterior
outlets were required to be on GFCI circuits. Looks to me like a sloppy
electrician who put some of the outlets on the required GFCI breakers and
ignored the rest.

http://www.mikeholt.com/documents/ne...ment_page2.pdf

Is the info at this URL incorrect?

Pesumably Mr. Holt is accurate, but it doesn't much matter.
I wasn't doing electrical back then, so I don't know what code required,
but my house is also 1983 and only had GFCIs in the bathrooms. I would be
willing to bet it met code.

The local electrical code typically refers to a specific version of the
NEC, with some adjustments. The version specified is often not the
latest. So, the fact that the 1981 NEC called for GFCIs in the garage
doesn't mean your local code did. The local code could have referred to
an old NEC, or it could have specifically exempted garages; or the
building inspector could have made it know that he didn't care about
garages.

Besides, what does it matter 22 years later? For $9 you can be a sport.

On Sat, 07 May 2005 23:38:04 GMT, "Walter R."
wrote:

For a home built in 1983, does an inside laundry room outlet require GFIC
outlets (above the counter and close to the tub)? The laundry room is
between the garage and the living quarters.

My understanding of the NEC 2002(since 05 isn't in force yet in Pa).

If the outlets are normallly used by installed, not easily movible,
equipment(laundry machine and dryer), then no receptacle is normally
availible forother appliances, then NO.

Now if it's an outlet not in placed for installed equipment:
If it's an unfinished room not normally
habited(like a storage or work area), or considered part of the
garage, Yes.

If it's a finished laundry room in the main house,
no.


------ side note -----
As for the 2005, I've been told receptacles serving the utility sink,
yes.


Now I'm not NEC expert, so you need to verify this yourself with your
local authorities. They have precidence, and can enforce stricter
codes. Personally any receptacles that can be used for portable
items(vacum, fan, etc) that exist around grounded items, exposing
people to electricution risk, then I would protect for that. $11
bucks is cheap compared to loss of life.

hth, imho,

tom



My main panel has two GFIC breakers, but I noticed that half of the garage
outlets and most of the exterior outlets are *not* GIFC protected. So much
for home inspections. -- I guess I will have to replace the missing GFIC
outlets, all ten of them.

Thanks for any input

"Walter R." wrote in message
...
Sounds like a very sensible approach. You are saying then, for $ 9 I can
buy a GFIC outlet and forget about this problem?

Well, $9/circuit.
The only trick is finding the first outlet to install the GFCI on, but that
just takes a little patience. There was a thread on that about a week ago.