The gas company has lines about a hundred yards from where we're
building our house. They say it will be SIX WEEKS before they can tell
us what it's going to cost to bring it in to our property.

On the other hand, we could just go with LP gas.

My feeling is that I'd rather have natural gas even if it costs a bit
to get it initially. LP gas also has an initial cost for tank, etc.,
doesn't it?

Any ideas on what it's going to cost them to bring the natural gas
lines in to our property? Educated guesses?

And opinions on which we should go with, natural or LP?

Many thanks.

Maxi

Email addy upon request.

You can go with LP now and convert the unit to natural later, most boilers
and furnaces are easily converted. Just verify that it is possible when you
purchase the heating equipment.
Greg

maxinemovies wrote:

The gas company has lines about a hundred yards from where we're
building our house. They say it will be SIX WEEKS before they can tell
us what it's going to cost to bring it in to our property.

On the other hand, we could just go with LP gas.

My feeling is that I'd rather have natural gas even if it costs a bit
to get it initially. LP gas also has an initial cost for tank, etc.,
doesn't it?

Any ideas on what it's going to cost them to bring the natural gas
lines in to our property? Educated guesses?

And opinions on which we should go with, natural or LP?

Many thanks.

Maxi

Email addy upon request.


Hi,
I am in Alberta Canada. When I had my cabin built, I had to run ~400
feet to bring the gas to my
cabin. It cost ~1000,00 CAD.
Tony

"maxinemovies" email on wrote in message
...
The gas company has lines about a hundred yards from where we're
building our house. They say it will be SIX WEEKS before they can tell
us what it's going to cost to bring it in to our property.

Crap shoot. It can be as little as $500, as hight as $5000+. Depends on
the particular utility and how they view the market at the time. Are there
other houses doing up downstream from you? They may want to tap into that
customer base and do it cheap. Is it only you? They may not think of one
house as a good enough investment to bother cutting any deals.



On the other hand, we could just go with LP gas.


You can also convert later if need be. Sure would be nice to know before
you get started so you can make provisions to bring the line in early on.


My feeling is that I'd rather have natural gas even if it costs a bit
to get it initially. LP gas also has an initial cost for tank, etc.,
doesn't it?

Right. NG will be cheaper every month, tends to be a little less volatile
in price. If you go iwth NG, run a line to the patio for a gas grill.

Any ideas on what it's going to cost them to bring the natural gas
lines in to our property? Educated guesses?



And opinions on which we should go with, natural or LP?

NG if you can. A superior product.

I hope your are taking full advantage of building a very energy efficient
house and save a bundle in heating and AC costs for years to come. If I was
building, I'd use ICF's like www.polysteel.com or www.integraspec.com They
cna cu t the heating bill by 40% or more.

Around here you sign with a LP company and they supply the tank but you have
to buy from them at their unregulated price. Also they can lie about the
price. So get it in writing.



"maxinemovies" email on wrote in message
...
The gas company has lines about a hundred yards from where we're
building our house. They say it will be SIX WEEKS before they can tell
us what it's going to cost to bring it in to our property.

On the other hand, we could just go with LP gas.

My feeling is that I'd rather have natural gas even if it costs a bit
to get it initially. LP gas also has an initial cost for tank, etc.,
doesn't it?

Any ideas on what it's going to cost them to bring the natural gas
lines in to our property? Educated guesses?

And opinions on which we should go with, natural or LP?

Many thanks.

Maxi

Email addy upon request.

Art wrote:

Around here you sign with a LP company and they supply the tank but you have
to buy from them at their unregulated price. Also they can lie about the
price. So get it in writing.



"maxinemovies" email on wrote in message
.. .


The gas company has lines about a hundred yards from where we're
building our house. They say it will be SIX WEEKS before they can tell
us what it's going to cost to bring it in to our property.

On the other hand, we could just go with LP gas.

My feeling is that I'd rather have natural gas even if it costs a bit
to get it initially. LP gas also has an initial cost for tank, etc.,
doesn't it?

Any ideas on what it's going to cost them to bring the natural gas
lines in to our property? Educated guesses?

And opinions on which we should go with, natural or LP?

Many thanks.

Maxi

Email addy upon request.






Hi,
LP has summer blend and winter blend. If you're in cold climate, summer
blend left over in tank may freeze.
Tony

If you choose LP don't run copper lines because if you ever decide to
run NG, you will have to replace all the lines. NG and copper don't
like each other. Remember also that you can't just switch lines and go,
all orifices on each device much be changed or you could have a fire. I
use LP and I lease the tank from the company for a one time fee of $50
and they come out whenever they feel like it and fill it up then send
me a bill. I'd like to switch over to NG just to get the big ugly tank
out of my yard but I have all copper pipes so I'd have to run all new
piping then change orifices on furnace, dryer and fireplaces. It's not
a fun project just to remove an eyesore. I like the independence also,
if the line is cut or shut off for some reason in the neighborhood, I
still have heat.


maxinemovies wrote:
The gas company has lines about a hundred yards from where we're
building our house. They say it will be SIX WEEKS before they can
tell
us what it's going to cost to bring it in to our property.

On the other hand, we could just go with LP gas.

My feeling is that I'd rather have natural gas even if it costs a bit
to get it initially. LP gas also has an initial cost for tank, etc.,
doesn't it?

Any ideas on what it's going to cost them to bring the natural gas
lines in to our property? Educated guesses?

And opinions on which we should go with, natural or LP?

Many thanks.

Maxi

Email addy upon request.

"Mike" wrote in message
ups.com...
If you choose LP don't run copper lines because if you ever decide to
run NG, you will have to replace all the lines. NG and copper don't
like each other. Remember also that you can't just switch lines and go,
all orifices on each device much be changed or you could have a fire. I
use LP and I lease the tank from the company for a one time fee of $50
and they come out whenever they feel like it and fill it up then send
me a bill. I'd like to switch over to NG just to get the big ugly tank
out of my yard but I have all copper pipes so I'd have to run all new
piping then change orifices on furnace, dryer and fireplaces. It's not
a fun project just to remove an eyesore. I like the independence also,
if the line is cut or shut off for some reason in the neighborhood, I
still have heat.




Actually....

In the past couple of years most areas are allowing copper to be used in NG
situations. *I* wont do it, since its prob going to be one of those things
that over time, we find out wasnt a good idea, and yes, I know why you dont
use copper with NG in areas with the "dirty" gas.
Its in the IGC book.

However, the one thing that no one has spoke of, is the gas diametric that
will have to be drawn up for the home, the difference in BTUs between the
two gases, and how if they go copper with LG, it will be too small to use
with NG.

The OP should for all intents, go with NG since its fairly close, the gas
lines can be ran one time and correctly, AND they get more BTUs for their
dollar.
SURE, you can convert a furnace to LPG, but you do know that the total BTU
rating goes DOWN. They have to burn more to get the same they get with NG.

With NG, its actually got more flexibility than LPG, and you dont have to
worry about tank location, tank filling, tank accessability, etc.
Im in the biz, and *IF* I HAD to chose one or the other, and thankfully I
dont (all electric and glad of it) it would be natural gas hands down.

maxinemovies wrote:
The gas company has lines about a hundred yards from where we're
building our house. They say it will be SIX WEEKS before they can
tell
us what it's going to cost to bring it in to our property.

On the other hand, we could just go with LP gas.

My feeling is that I'd rather have natural gas even if it costs a bit
to get it initially. LP gas also has an initial cost for tank, etc.,
doesn't it?

Any ideas on what it's going to cost them to bring the natural gas
lines in to our property? Educated guesses?

And opinions on which we should go with, natural or LP?

Many thanks.

Maxi

Email addy upon request.

Ng should cost less per Btu. go with the cheaper fuel

"maxinemovies" email on wrote in message
...
The gas company has lines about a hundred yards from where we're
building our house. They say it will be SIX WEEKS before they can tell
us what it's going to cost to bring it in to our property.

On the other hand, we could just go with LP gas.

My feeling is that I'd rather have natural gas even if it costs a bit
to get it initially. LP gas also has an initial cost for tank, etc.,
doesn't it?

Any ideas on what it's going to cost them to bring the natural gas
lines in to our property? Educated guesses?

And opinions on which we should go with, natural or LP?


NEITHER!!

Go with clean, warm, dependable OIL!!!!!

;-]

Some apliances are made easy to convert for Ng-propane with kits, some
are not and will need alot more work and cost. Check everything out if
you want that future option in your apliances. Hiring someone for a
future conversion could be expensive. I looked at an American Standard
furnace that offered a simple conversion kit , burner jets and gas valve
components and other brands that made no mention of it as I was looking
at dual emergency fuel. Propane is usualy more costly to use but this
depends on your area. In some areas of the US electricity is cheapest,
but only a few. For most Ng is best you need to run numbers on Btu
costs of all fuels of your area.

maxinemovies wrote:
The gas company has lines about a hundred yards from where we're
building our house. They say it will be SIX WEEKS before they can tell
us what it's going to cost to bring it in to our property.

I reality 6 weeks is not too long to wait and see. After all you are
planning on having that home for a lot more than 6 weeks.


On the other hand, we could just go with LP gas.

My feeling is that I'd rather have natural gas even if it costs a bit
to get it initially. LP gas also has an initial cost for tank, etc.,
doesn't it?

Any ideas on what it's going to cost them to bring the natural gas
lines in to our property? Educated guesses?

And opinions on which we should go with, natural or LP?

Many thanks.

Maxi

Email addy upon request.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia's Muire duit

In article , "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:

If you go iwth NG, run a line to the patio for a gas grill.

Do this regardless of whether you get LP or natural gas.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

When we had LP a few years ago, we paid a deposit on a tank, but it remained
the property of the propane company.

NG is a lot more convenient (probably cheaper, too -- plus you don't have to
schedule refills), but I'd go LP until you can get a quote on running the
line. If the quote is too high, you still have your LP tank.

On Tue, 05 Apr 2005 18:59:17 -0700, maxinemovies email on
wrote:

The gas company has lines about a hundred yards from where we're
building our house. They say it will be SIX WEEKS before they can tell
us what it's going to cost to bring it in to our property.

On the other hand, we could just go with LP gas.

My feeling is that I'd rather have natural gas even if it costs a bit
to get it initially. LP gas also has an initial cost for tank, etc.,
doesn't it?

Any ideas on what it's going to cost them to bring the natural gas
lines in to our property? Educated guesses?

And opinions on which we should go with, natural or LP?

Many thanks.

Maxi

Email addy upon request.

Gas prices are going up daily and who knows where it will end?
Your new home should be plumbed for NG, but with emergency heat
coming from both electricity and LP. Surely you can do a minimal
installation of a single line running to your main living area for
LP. How much could that cost?

I'd expect a hook-up to cost about $6,000 to $8,000 if they have to
cut into their main line.

"Dr. Hardcrab" wrote in message
NEITHER!!

Go with clean, warm, dependable OIL!!!!!

;-]

Do you actually believe all that hype? A Btu is a Btu. What makes oil any
warmer? Yes, it is cleaner than years ago, but I still have to have my
burner cleaned every 1000 gallons or so. If I could, I'd switch to NG today
yet.
Ed

Hi,
LP has summer blend and winter blend. If you're in cold climate, summer
blend left over in tank may freeze.
Tony

============
Say What.....?
Do a.. google.. and look up the freezing point of Propane...
Not sure but it is at least a minus 300 degrees...

Bob Griffiths.

On Wed, 06 Apr 2005 03:04:04 GMT, "Art"
wrote:

Around here you sign with a LP company and they supply the tank but you have
to buy from them at their unregulated price. Also they can lie about the
price. So get it in writing.


===============
Very True... I bought my own 400 pound (100 gallon ) tank just last
week...
My home is a total electric home so I use electric heat...BUT when I
wanted to heat my woodshop I went with a NG Furnace which I converted
to Propane...

Paid 1.79 a gallon in Novenber for a gallon of Propane...1.92 in
January and got hit 2.68 a gallon in early March...

after I got the bill in March I started calling LP dealers in the
area...proce per gallon has gone up...but the range was from 2.10 to
2.30 ...a good 10 percent less then what I had paid from the supplier
WHO OWNED the tank...

Next year IF I DO NOT CONVERT to Electric heat I will at least be able
to shop around for the best price or lock into a seasonal rate that is
for the entire heating season...


BTW electric works out cheaper if Propane sells for 2.00 a gallon...
based on the number of gallons of Propane I needed in the shop this
year..based on BTU's per gallon vs cost of Electricity (BTU's/Kwh)..
not even factoring in the effeciency of electric vs propane...



Bb Griffiths

In article , Bob G. wrote:


after I got the bill in March I started calling LP dealers in the
area...proce per gallon has gone up...but the range was from 2.10 to
2.30 ...a good 10 percent less then what I had paid from the supplier
WHO OWNED the tank...

That's normal.

Next year IF I DO NOT CONVERT to Electric heat I will at least be able
to shop around for the best price

Don't bet on it. If the supplier owns the tank, it's likely that you can't get
anyone else to fill it. That's why you got better price quotes from the other
suppliers: they were quoting you the rate for filling homeowner-owned tanks,
but you're currently paying the rate for a supplier-owned tank.

Check out the cost of buying the tank. It may take ten years before you
save enough on the price of fuel to break even.

or lock into a seasonal rate that is
for the entire heating season...

Not likely. Why would the supplier agree to sell to you at a discount? He owns
your tank. He knows you can't buy the gas from anyone else.


--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

Thanks to everyone for your replies. I'll show all of this to my
husband and we'll go from there.

I read this ng every day and learn new things all the time. You're all
the best!

Maxi

Email addy upon request.

If you use propane you may want to ask for a larger tank
than you think necessary.

I have a house in Michigan with nominal 330 gallon propane
tank that for safety can only be filled to 85% level, about
280 gallons. The tank is located in the back yard behind a
small barn so that its size or appearance is not a problem.
I use 420 to 480 gallons per winter. If I had requested a 500
gallon tank (425 gallons)I could fill up when prices are low
in August, top off the tank in November, and avoid the December
through March price rise.

Most of my neighbors use the same supplier that I use because
it is the cheapest. Michigan requires that I pay to lease the
tank from the owner but it is only a dollar a year.

They refused to increase the tank size unless I required a refill
every month.

Bob G. wrote:

Hi,
LP has summer blend and winter blend. If you're in cold climate, summer
blend left over in tank may freeze.
Tony



============
Say What.....?
Do a.. google.. and look up the freezing point of Propane...
Not sure but it is at least a minus 300 degrees...

Bob Griffiths.


Hi,
Really? Ever had 100% moisture free anything? Ever remember car
carburetor throat covered with ice in winter
in old days? Gasoline freezes as well. Anything will freeze at 300
degree what? F, C or K?
I live in cold climate my cottage neighbors who have LP suppy always
worry about freeze while I am on NG with
worry free. LP contains more Butane in winter.
Tony

Tony,
The problem isn't that propane freezes, it is that the boiling
pressure of the propane in the tank varies with temperature. Propane
normally burns at 10-11 inches WC. 14 Inches WC is 1/2 psi. If the
pressure in the tank drops too low, the burner won't fire. Propane
boils at around 6 degrees as I recall at atmospheric pressure (A
GUESS!!). If it gets too cold outside, something else needs to be
added (Butane) so there is enough pressure in the tank to make the
burner fire. That is why the LP gas company has a "Winter Mix"


Stretch

PS: If i can find better information on the boiling point of propane, I
will post it tomorrow. I will have to look it up. We had a customer
in Pennsylvania who had propane at his factory, and when it got very
cold outside, he had to reduce operations because the propane wouldn't
boil fast enough to fire his boiler.

"stretch" wrote in message
burner fire. That is why the LP gas company has a "Winter Mix"


Stretch

PS: If i can find better information on the boiling point of propane, I
will post it tomorrow. I will have to look it up.

Gas BP °C State at
20°C As LPG
propane - 42 gas pressu
BP:
state: 14 atm
38°C
liquid
butane - 0.5 gas pressu
BP:
state: 2.6 atm
38°C
liquid

Hi,
Really? Ever had 100% moisture free anything? Ever remember car
carburetor throat covered with ice in winter
in old days? Gasoline freezes as well. Anything will freeze at 300
degree what? F, C or K?
I live in cold climate my cottage neighbors who have LP suppy always
worry about freeze while I am on NG with
worry free. LP contains more Butane in winter.
Tony

Strange I just did a quick search on Propane and did not find the
freezing point...they only listed the boiling point...which was minus
44 degrees F... Butane on the other hand boils at positive 32
degrees F...

So BOTH gasses will be boiling when the air temp reaches 32 deg F..or
freezing...

Yes I realize that moisture can get into almost everything..including
gas lines....BUT it would take a heck of a lot of moisture in a pretty
small gas line to stop the flow of gas...not impossible I will admit
but unlikely ...

Bob Griffiths

Check out the cost of buying the tank. It may take ten years before you
save enough on the price of fuel to break even.


I just purchased a tank a few weeks ago...400 pound tank...a little
over 100 gallons..brand new @275 bucks... Just the difference in my
last 100 gallon purchase would have been 60 odd bucks..since I filled
it 3 times last winter payback time is slightly less then 10 years
....more like about 1-2 years...



Not likely. Why would the supplier agree to sell to you at a discount? He owns
your tank. He knows you can't buy the gas from anyone else.

All very true that is why I purchase my own tank...

Bob Griffiths

Small Propane tanks can freeze at 70f or so , ask a roofer that uses 20
lb tanks with 300000 btu torchdown burners. Even using a small
cilinder on my weed burner it gets cold when it is hot out.

Butane boils at 31.1 degrees F @ atmospheric pressure
Propane boils at -42.1 degrees F @ atmospheric pressure. (OOPS!) I
don't know what the boiling point is at say 20 PSIG gauge.

I know when charging a/c units, as I remove freon from the drum, the
remaining liquid in the drum gets cold. It is harder to evaporate the
remaining Freon. The same thing happens with propane. The colder it
is outside, the more gas you use and the higher the draw from the tank.
The remaining LPG in the tank acts as a refrigerant and the pressure
goes down

The regulator at the tank is at some hegher intermediate pressure. The
regulator at the house is normally set at 11 Inches water column. How
well the propane evaporates will depend on the outdoor air temperature,
the amount of liquid in the tank (as a heat sink), the surface area of
the liquid in the tank and the surface area of the tank (the size of
the tank) to absorb heat from the outside. The pressure at the burner
will also depend on pressure drop in the piping. They could also add
butane to the LPG in the summer but not in the winter. We used to buy
it as LPG, not as propane. I can see how that would affect things.

Boy, a little research first would have been good instead of shooting
my mouth off first! :-). I'm glad that I admitted it was a GUESS in my
first post!

Stretch

In article , Bob G wrote:


Check out the cost of buying the tank. It may take ten years before you
save enough on the price of fuel to break even.

I just purchased a tank a few weeks ago...400 pound tank...a little
over 100 gallons..brand new @275 bucks...

Here in central Indiana where I live, a hundred gallons is a *very* small tank
for a residence. You'd be filling that sucker at least once a week in January
and February. In Minnesota, probably more like every two or three days.

Lots of people around here have *thousand*-gallon tanks. Try pricing one of
*those*.

Just the difference in my
last 100 gallon purchase would have been 60 odd bucks..

IIRC, you posted that there was a difference of some 30 cents a gallon; that
makes a difference of 30 dollars per hundred gallons, not 60.

since I filled
it 3 times last winter payback time is slightly less then 10 years
....more like about 1-2 years...

If you can get through a winter on three fills of a hundred-gallon tank, then
you should quit complaining and count your blessings. :-) Either your house is
unbelievably well insulated, or you live in a climate with *very* mild
winters. We're in a home with natural gas now, but in our previous home with
LP, we needed five and sometimes six fills of a FIVE hundred gallon tank to
get through the fall and winter.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
. com...
In article , Bob G
wrote:


Check out the cost of buying the tank. It may take ten years before you
save enough on the price of fuel to break even.

I just purchased a tank a few weeks ago...400 pound tank...a little
over 100 gallons..brand new @275 bucks...

Here in central Indiana where I live, a hundred gallons is a *very* small
tank
for a residence. You'd be filling that sucker at least once a week in
January
and February. In Minnesota, probably more like every two or three days.

Lots of people around here have *thousand*-gallon tanks. Try pricing one
of
*those*.

Just the difference in my
last 100 gallon purchase would have been 60 odd bucks..

IIRC, you posted that there was a difference of some 30 cents a gallon;
that
makes a difference of 30 dollars per hundred gallons, not 60.

since I filled
it 3 times last winter payback time is slightly less then 10 years
....more like about 1-2 years...

If you can get through a winter on three fills of a hundred-gallon tank,
then
you should quit complaining and count your blessings. :-) Either your
house is
unbelievably well insulated, or you live in a climate with *very* mild
winters. We're in a home with natural gas now, but in our previous home
with
LP, we needed five and sometimes six fills of a FIVE hundred gallon tank
to
get through the fall and winter.

gee, now i don't feel so bad. i have a 500 lp gallon tank (buried) that i
fill once/year. i haven't turned my heat on this winter yet, only using a
couple of gas fireplaces to take the chill out of the air when needed.

does burying the tank make it work better (less consumption), in that the
air temp really is ground temp, causing a higher boiling off temp?

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

regards,
charlie
cave creek, az

If you can get through a winter on three fills of a hundred-gallon tank,
then
you should quit complaining and count your blessings. :-) Either your
house is
unbelievably well insulated, or you live in a climate with *very* mild
winters. We're in a home with natural gas now, but in our previous home
with
LP, we needed five and sometimes six fills of a FIVE hundred gallon tank
to
get through the fall and winter.

===============
Sorry BUT I am not heating my home ... The building I am heating is
my garage/woodshop.... and I keep the thermostat set at 45-50
degrees ..until I am out in the building ..

Bob