Duane Bozarth wrote:

Years ago I had a neighbor who sprayed his yard for weeds with "a
herbicide he brought back from Viet Nam." He didn't have a green
anything in his yard for 5 years!

Wasn't 2,4-D or 2,4,5-T then. Both are broadleaf selective and they
breakdown in the soil or water within 2-3 weeks at most. Found the
following quickly for 2,4,5-T and my recollection is 2,4-D is similar
in
nature.

"Fate
2,4,5-T on the soil may be degraded chemically or biologically,
volatilized, absorbed in the soil, or leached beyond the depth of
plant
roots. 2,4,5-T is moderately mobile in sandy and clay soils.
Half-life
on grass is 8-17 days, in soils 21-24 days. Normally, only small
amounts enter water, where it does not persist as it is absorbed by
clay
or biota within a few days,. Esters of 2,4,5-T are usually
hydrolysed
within a few days. There is no significant bioaccumulation."

Extracted from

Rotterdam Convention - Operation of the Prior Informed Consent
Procedure for Banned or Severely Restricted Chemicals
Decision Guidance Documents

2,4,5-T and its salts and esters


Used in the correct strengths for residential application on grasses,
the stated results are probably correct. But used in military strengths
to obliterate whole jungles is another matter altogether.

Bob S.

"Bob S." wrote:
....
Used in the correct strengths for residential application on grasses,
the stated results are probably correct. But used in military strengths
to obliterate whole jungles is another matter altogether.

He put on liquid concentrate in enough volume to saturate everything
including the ground for five years? Seems like he must have had a 55
gal drum of the stuff.

I've spilled while filled the sprayer full concentrate and while it will
kill all, there certainly will be regrowth by the following year.

1/2-life ~ 3 wks -- ~17 half-lives/year * 5 yrs == 85 half-lives --
2^-85 ~ 2E-26 initial concentration at that time. 2^-17 ~ 8E-6 after
one year. If it was still totally dead after that, I'd still say it was
something other than (or in addition to) 2,4-D/2,4,5-T

According to TURTLE :

Disclaimer here --- Don't do any of this below for I don't say to do this at
all.

Now you said to just pull it up and get rid of it. Well I will tell you
something about poison oak and ivy stuff to make this stuff have no effect on
you at all for life. The Old Timers would take all their kids and give them 3
red berrys from the Poison oak 1 day and then 3 red berrys the second day, and
then 3 red berrys the 3 day. Then wait 10 days and you can take a bath is poison
oak or ivy for life and have no effect on you at all. At the age of 14 I could
just walk near it and I would break out head to toe. My Grand father give me the
treatment at that time and i take Poison oak and ivy off condenser unit all
summer and just use my bear hands and nothing else. I can not say why or how
this works but my grandfather worked as a Log hauler and a steam engine Operator
with flate cars in the early 1900's and poison ivy and oak was a big problem to
get workers off work. They would do this and never have to deal with poison oak
or ivy again. Just a thought here.

Allergies are funny things.

Some people never react to PI (a friend of my son's for instance).

Children often evolve out of (or into) allergies, it seems common for
that to occur around puberty (ie: recent research on severe peanut
allergies going away completely by themselves in early teens in about 20-30%
of cases).

With most severe allergies, the first time you come in contact with the item,
nothing happens, but you've been sensitized for the next contact, and
they often get progressively worse. Yet, given enough time without
contact, the sensitization sometimes resets. [My wife gets a free wasp
sting every few years, but if the interval is too short, watch out!]

There are many old-timer remedies for poison ivy. PI tea. Berries. Smoking
or eating PI leaves etc. The fact is that urushiol is present in all
portions of the plant, and that when taken internally the results can
be MUCH more catastrophic than a skin rash. Inhaling the smoke has
effects roughly akin to mustard gas or chlorine used in chemical
warfare, only a bit slower.

Yes, allergy treatments often are nothing more than progressively larger
micro-doses of the allergen in an attempt to habituate your body to it.

But wolfing back 3 berries? There's really no telling what the urushiol
dose is going to be - given how much damage just touching a leaf can
do, I certainly wouldn't risk swallowing the stuff.

I think you were just one of those people who'd have become immune to
PI at that age, berries or not. It's also probable that the tougher
your skin is, the less likely you'll be to get affected.

I seem to be able to touch PI with my hands/palms with no effect, but
if I touch somewhere (or someone :-( else after I've been in contact with
PI, ouch!
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

"Chris Lewis" wrote in message
...
According to TURTLE :

Disclaimer here --- Don't do any of this below for I don't say to do this at
all.

Now you said to just pull it up and get rid of it. Well I will tell you
something about poison oak and ivy stuff to make this stuff have no effect on
you at all for life. The Old Timers would take all their kids and give them 3
red berrys from the Poison oak 1 day and then 3 red berrys the second day,
and
then 3 red berrys the 3 day. Then wait 10 days and you can take a bath is
poison
oak or ivy for life and have no effect on you at all. At the age of 14 I
could
just walk near it and I would break out head to toe. My Grand father give me
the
treatment at that time and i take Poison oak and ivy off condenser unit all
summer and just use my bear hands and nothing else. I can not say why or how
this works but my grandfather worked as a Log hauler and a steam engine
Operator
with flate cars in the early 1900's and poison ivy and oak was a big problem
to
get workers off work. They would do this and never have to deal with poison
oak
or ivy again. Just a thought here.

Allergies are funny things.

Some people never react to PI (a friend of my son's for instance).

Children often evolve out of (or into) allergies, it seems common for
that to occur around puberty (ie: recent research on severe peanut
allergies going away completely by themselves in early teens in about 20-30%
of cases).

With most severe allergies, the first time you come in contact with the item,
nothing happens, but you've been sensitized for the next contact, and
they often get progressively worse. Yet, given enough time without
contact, the sensitization sometimes resets. [My wife gets a free wasp
sting every few years, but if the interval is too short, watch out!]

There are many old-timer remedies for poison ivy. PI tea. Berries. Smoking
or eating PI leaves etc. The fact is that urushiol is present in all
portions of the plant, and that when taken internally the results can
be MUCH more catastrophic than a skin rash. Inhaling the smoke has
effects roughly akin to mustard gas or chlorine used in chemical
warfare, only a bit slower.

Yes, allergy treatments often are nothing more than progressively larger
micro-doses of the allergen in an attempt to habituate your body to it.

But wolfing back 3 berries? There's really no telling what the urushiol
dose is going to be - given how much damage just touching a leaf can
do, I certainly wouldn't risk swallowing the stuff.

I think you were just one of those people who'd have become immune to
PI at that age, berries or not. It's also probable that the tougher
your skin is, the less likely you'll be to get affected.

I seem to be able to touch PI with my hands/palms with no effect, but
if I touch somewhere (or someone :-( else after I've been in contact with
PI, ouch!
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

This is Turtle

This is not tring anything but doing what all the loggers in the early 1900 was
doing to get away from the effects of PI. Modern medication now days have cures
for anything but they all have a Patient on it and the berrys don't. Just like
up till 1940 the cure for food poisin was vinegar but they developed a patiented
medication to fix this and just forgot about vinegar.

I can not take a stand on saying it is safe or not by taking 3 berry of the PI
but driving on a free way is dangerous too. Now I don't recommend anything here
and anything I do you should not do !

TURTLE

I go to Southern States and get a generic version of Round-Up at the
highest strength possible (a gallon of which sells for about $25 - half
the price of the brand name product), then use a product called
"Crossbow" (2-4-D is the active ingredient) and mix like 4 oz of the
Roundup and 3 3 oz. of the Crossbow into two gallons of water and apply
in a pump sprayer. The **** works great - and kills both weeds, grasses
and poison ivy. Some reapplication is needed, but the stuff I killed
end of last summer is dead, Dead, DEAD!

Gideon wrote:
Harry,

Go to K-Mart, Home Depot, Lowes, and your local garden center and
tell your problem to just about anybody working in the "lawn chemicals
area." It is advisable to get multiple opinions, especially at K-Mart type
stores.

There are many products which will somewhat selectively kill poison ivy.
You can purchase the chemicals in bulk for use with a pump sprayer
or you can buy individual aerosol cans (about $4-$5 each) for spot application.
I believe that Ortho's aerosol cans have pictures of poison ivy, poison oak,
etc. on the front of the container for handy reference.

Some standard broadleaf weed killers (eg: dandelion killer, 2-4-D, etc.)
will attack poison ivy somewhat, but there are much better specific killers
for so-called bushy weeds such as poison ivy.

Also, you can use just about any broad-spectrum herbicide such as
Roundup. Keep in mind that these products kill just about any plant
whose leaves they touch and you can't easily use them to kill a weed
which is among favorable plants. If you spray them on poison ivy which
is growing up a tree, then the overspray onto the bark of the tree is not
a problem. In some areas you may have to "bite the bullet" and use
a broad-spectrum killer to kill everything in the area just because the
broad-spectrum killer is much less expensive and more effective.

Also, do some "Google searching" with search arguments such as:

"poison ivy" cashew mango

This should give you some EXTREMELY important advice about foods
which your wife should avoid while recovering from poison ivy contact.
There are a number of fruits which come from plants which are closely
related to poison ivy. The levels of allergens in these fruits is normally not
a problem, but they will greatly increase the allergic reaction to poison ivy.
Recovery from poison ivy contact is slow and uncomfortable - don't
exacerbate it by eating the wrong foods which contain small amount of
the allergen that causes the poison ivy reaction.

If you have a lot of poison ivy on your property, then you probably won't
knock it all out in your first attempt. Do some "Google" searching to
learn now what you or your wife should do to prevent future contact or
to deal with future contact. Poison ivy oils can definitely migrate into
your house on the fur of your pets. There are established procedures
for washing poison ivy oil from skin and clothing after contact. All of
this information and more is easily accessible on the Internet. Just
do some "Googling" with intelligents search arguments.

Good luck,
Gideon

PS: Thanks for mentioning that you are aware that the subject is
somewhat off-topic in this newsgroup and thanks for complimenting
our little newsgroup. We try harder.

"Harry Everhart" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"TURTLE" wrote:
I use that 2-4-D to kill anything and including trees but I have not heard of
2-4-5-T . I can't see this stuff getting any better than the regular 2-4-D
stuff. Do they sell this 2-4-5-T stuff where they sell 2-4-D stuff ?
TURTLE


Where do I buy 2-4-D?
I want some now.
Harry

This Is Turtle.

At Any Farm & Feed Store or even at Super Walmarts store . Any Farm & Feed Store
Man will tell you all about the 2-4-D stuff and what is what. You should be
carful for this stuff can get you just like the weeds if not handled right.

TURTLE

I went to Target and bought Roundup Concentrate Poison Ivy and Tough
Brush Cleaner Plus. It claims to "kill the roots" and "rain proof in 30
minutes." It is 18% active ingredient - glyphosate isopropylamine salt.
Regular roundup has 1% of this stuff. You mix 6 oz of it with a gallon
of water.

32 oz of this stuff cost $25.

I will report back the results.

Harry

Harry Everhart wrote:

I went to Target and bought Roundup Concentrate Poison Ivy and Tough
Brush Cleaner Plus. It claims to "kill the roots" and "rain proof in 30
minutes." It is 18% active ingredient - glyphosate isopropylamine salt.
Regular roundup has 1% of this stuff. You mix 6 oz of it with a gallon
of water.

32 oz of this stuff cost $25.

I will report back the results.


Just keep it off anything you want to keep...it's non-selective.

Use a stick aplicator if you are worried about overspray, you fill a
tube that has a sponge on the bottom.

Duane Bozarth wrote:
Just keep it off anything you want to keep...it's non-selective.

Neither am I. :-)

Harry

Neither am I. :-)

Just in case ou do become selective, it might be a good idea to get a
paint can or something larger diameter and cut out the solid end also,
and use it to shield against overspray on other "wanted"
vegetation.............it'll also likely keep the neighbors from
getting PO'd if it blows over on their yard and kills a bunch of grass
or something like that.

I do this and make "polka dots" on my yard to get rid of some unwanted
plants that volunteer to grow in my yard.
Works great!

Good luck



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