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Home Repair (alt.home.repair) For all homeowners and DIYers with many experienced tradesmen. Solve your toughest home fix-it problems. |
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#1
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Air hose pressure/volume question
This may not be exactly the correct group but this is where I lurk so
you get my question. I have my shop totally plumbed for air with both inside and outside connectors and it sits approximately in the middle of our rather large lot in a small community. The compressor is a 7 HP with a 60 gallon tank. Now the question: I can reach anyplace on our lot with 200' of air hose but I am curious if I will lose any volume and/or pressure through that long of a hose. The hose is a normal 3/8" rubber air hose. I currently have 100' and everything (nailers, & even my TIP sandblaster) seems to work fine but I thought that I would ask prior to purchasing another 100'. TIA Don |
#2
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The amount of pressure drop will depend on the length of hose, the
internal diameter of the hose, the smootheness if the inside of the hose and the amount of air consumption. Some air powered tools may have internal regulators, so cranking up the pressure may overcome the loss without hurting the tool. Or buy a larger diameter hose, that would work better. I don't have the charts, but if someone does, they will need more information as explained above. Stretch |
#3
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Donald Gares wrote:
This may not be exactly the correct group but this is where I lurk so you get my question. I have my shop totally plumbed for air with both inside and outside connectors and it sits approximately in the middle of our rather large lot in a small community. The compressor is a 7 HP with a 60 gallon tank. Now the question: I can reach anyplace on our lot with 200' of air hose but I am curious if I will lose any volume and/or pressure through that long of a hose. The hose is a normal 3/8" rubber air hose. I currently have 100' and everything (nailers, & even my TIP sandblaster) seems to work fine but I thought that I would ask prior to purchasing another 100'. TIA Don I would guess the only thing that might give you a problem would be the sandblaster. Most tools would not have a problem and even the sandblaster may be OK. Get it and try it. -- Joseph Meehan Dia's Muire duit |
#4
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I am under the impression that the piping and hose add up the total volume.
So, if you have a 60 gal tank and add a lot of piping you increase your capacity by the volume of the pipe/hose installed. You may get a gallon or more of storage in your setup. I have never experience any issues with long versus short hoses other that the weight of carrying around a long rubber hose. "Donald Gares" wrote in message ... This may not be exactly the correct group but this is where I lurk so you get my question. I have my shop totally plumbed for air with both inside and outside connectors and it sits approximately in the middle of our rather large lot in a small community. The compressor is a 7 HP with a 60 gallon tank. Now the question: I can reach anyplace on our lot with 200' of air hose but I am curious if I will lose any volume and/or pressure through that long of a hose. The hose is a normal 3/8" rubber air hose. I currently have 100' and everything (nailers, & even my TIP sandblaster) seems to work fine but I thought that I would ask prior to purchasing another 100'. TIA Don |
#5
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On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 23:24:46 -0500, Donald Gares
wrote: This may not be exactly the correct group but this is where I lurk so you get my question. I have my shop totally plumbed for air with both inside and outside connectors and it sits approximately in the middle of our rather large lot in a small community. The compressor is a 7 HP with a 60 gallon tank. Now the question: I can reach anyplace on our lot with 200' of air hose but I am curious if I will lose any volume and/or pressure through that long of a hose. The hose is a normal 3/8" rubber air hose. I currently have 100' and everything (nailers, & even my TIP sandblaster) seems to work fine but I thought that I would ask prior to purchasing another 100'. TIA Don It is likely that 200 feet of hose will half your air volume. So increase your air pressure to compensate. |
#6
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"Donald Gares" wrote in message ... This may not be exactly the correct group but this is where I lurk so you get my question. I have my shop totally plumbed for air with both inside and outside connectors and it sits approximately in the middle of our rather large lot in a small community. The compressor is a 7 HP with a 60 gallon tank. Now the question: I can reach anyplace on our lot with 200' of air hose but I am curious if I will lose any volume and/or pressure through that long of a hose. The hose is a normal 3/8" rubber air hose. I currently have 100' and everything (nailers, & even my TIP sandblaster) seems to work fine but I thought that I would ask prior to purchasing another 100'. TIA Don If you have quick connects, check the pressure coming off your tank. Now, with THE SAME GAUGE, check the pressure at the end of the hose. There's your answer. I don't believe there would be any appreciable loss of flow, although I am no expert. It will be nice to hear from someone who actually is in the compressor business to give us the 100% for sure answer. In the oilfield, we would run hundreds of feet of hose, but then, we had a big Schram compressor backing it up. Steve Steve |
#7
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Hey guys, thanks for all the replies....they were appreciated.
I will probably only be using a nailer at the most extreme distance (hate to nail a 800' picket fence by hand) so I think that I will just grab the extra hose and give it a try. Cheers, Don Donald Gares wrote: This may not be exactly the correct group but this is where I lurk so you get my question. I have my shop totally plumbed for air with both inside and outside connectors and it sits approximately in the middle of our rather large lot in a small community. The compressor is a 7 HP with a 60 gallon tank. Now the question: I can reach anyplace on our lot with 200' of air hose but I am curious if I will lose any volume and/or pressure through that long of a hose. The hose is a normal 3/8" rubber air hose. I currently have 100' and everything (nailers, & even my TIP sandblaster) seems to work fine but I thought that I would ask prior to purchasing another 100'. TIA Don |
#8
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On Mon, 4 Apr 2005 09:48:40 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote: "Donald Gares" wrote in message ... This may not be exactly the correct group but this is where I lurk so you get my question. I have my shop totally plumbed for air with both inside and outside connectors and it sits approximately in the middle of our rather large lot in a small community. The compressor is a 7 HP with a 60 gallon tank. Now the question: I can reach anyplace on our lot with 200' of air hose but I am curious if I will lose any volume and/or pressure through that long of a hose. The hose is a normal 3/8" rubber air hose. I currently have 100' and everything (nailers, & even my TIP sandblaster) seems to work fine but I thought that I would ask prior to purchasing another 100'. TIA Don If you have quick connects, check the pressure coming off your tank. Now, with THE SAME GAUGE, check the pressure at the end of the hose. There's your answer. Totally wrong. Couldn't be more wrong. He could run a piece of 1/4 " tubing 1,000 feet, and get the EXACT same pressure reading at both ends, AS LONG AS there was no device actually trying to USE that air. The instant he USES any air, the story changes. I don't believe there would be any appreciable loss of flow, although I am no expert. It will be nice to hear from someone who actually is in the compressor business to give us the 100% for sure answer. Well, the answer is : It will depend on how much air he wants to use at the other end. A nailer, basically an intermittent-use device, he would probably get away with. A sander or sand-blaster or sprayer or grinder or pressure washer or such - a continuous use device - different story. Then he needs to know the CFM consumption and minimum pressure ( if minimum is satisfactory to his use needs ) of the device, and look up the flow restriction of his total piping / tubing to the point of use, vs origin pressure at the tank and pressure drop for tubing size. Then, if he's off the charts ( too much pressure drop at desired CFM ), the answer is 'buy a larger diameter hose, properly sized as above.' Click every day here to feed an animal !!! http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/ Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me 'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.' HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/ Free Temperature / Pressure charts for 38 Ref's http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/ |
#9
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On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 11:54:15 -0500, Donald Gares
wrote: Hey guys, thanks for all the replies....they were appreciated. I will probably only be using a nailer at the most extreme distance (hate to nail a 800' picket fence by hand) so I think that I will just grab the extra hose and give it a try. You'll be fine. It might not be able to do quite as much 'rapid fire' as if you were closer, but it will be fine for that purpose. Do check prices - if a larger diameter hose isn't that much more money, get it. Click every day here to feed an animal !!! http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/ Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me 'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.' HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/ Free Temperature / Pressure charts for 38 Ref's http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/ |
#11
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SteveB wrote:
"Donald Gares" wrote in message ... If you have quick connects, check the pressure coming off your tank. Now, with THE SAME GAUGE, check the pressure at the end of the hose. There's your answer. That will only give you static pressure. Since you use dynamic pressure you need to measure that. You would also need a "T" at the end of the hose and measure it with the various tools connected. A sand plaster is going to have a lower dynamic reading, but a nail gun is likely to have almost no loss. I don't believe there would be any appreciable loss of flow, although I am no expert. It will be nice to hear from someone who actually is in the compressor business to give us the 100% for sure answer. In the oilfield, we would run hundreds of feet of hose, but then, we had a big Schram compressor backing it up. Steve Steve -- Joseph Meehan Dia's Muire duit |
#12
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It'd help if the "Good advice" was included in your post!
On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 17:34:23 GMT, "Gideon" wrote: Good advise from somebody who understands what is going on. |
#13
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nospambob wrote:
It'd help if the "Good advice" was included in your post! On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 17:34:23 GMT, "Gideon" wrote: Good advise from somebody who understands what is going on. It would also help if you wouldn't top post... But, in response to your comment, he (Gideon) was complimenting the previous responsder for the lucid and correct answer... |
#14
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On Tue, 05 Apr 2005 10:07:14 -0500, Duane Bozarth
wrote: nospambob wrote: It'd help if the "Good advice" was included in your post! On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 17:34:23 GMT, "Gideon" wrote: Good advise from somebody who understands what is going on. It would also help if you wouldn't top post... But, in response to your comment, he (Gideon) was complimenting the previous responsder for the lucid and correct answer... For which I would like to apologize. I'll try not to let it happen again :-) Click every day here to feed an animal !!! http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/ Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me 'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.' HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/ Free Temperature / Pressure charts for 38 Ref's http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/ |
#16
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On Tue, 05 Apr 2005 10:36:07 -0500, Duane Bozarth
wrote: wrote: On Tue, 05 Apr 2005 10:07:14 -0500, Duane Bozarth wrote: ... ...he (Gideon) was complimenting the previous responsder for the lucid and correct answer... For which I would like to apologize. I'll try not to let it happen again :-) And rightly you should...what if usenet were to become a haven of accurate and even potentially useful information???? Definite breach in the space / time continuum ..... Click every day here to feed an animal !!! http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/ Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me 'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.' HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/ Free Temperature / Pressure charts for 38 Ref's http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/ |
#17
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Donald,
There are extremely easy approaches to your situation. What I suggest for you is to add one or more remote tanks to your system. You can purchase small tanks or you can make your own by using old propane tanks, freon tanks, helium tanks, etc. Obviously, you will want these tanks to have quick connect fittings. These tanks are handy for several reasons: 1) The are nice portable tanks to put in the trunk of a vehicle for emergency tire inflation. 2) Take them to the first day of basketball, soccer, football practice for the tiny tots and you are a hero as you inflate everybody's sports balls which are down to 4-5 psi. 3) They provide a buffered storage capability for remote operation when hooked up to your home compressor system. Some friends and I use EXTREMELY tiny hoses for long runs (200' - 1000') of compressed air. The hose and the fittings are relatively inexpensive and the setup works extremely well if: 1) There is sufficient tank capacity at the business end of the system to provide reserve capacity. 2) We accept the fact that there is a recover time between tool uses. If you are building a shed 1000' from your air compressor, then you can use 1000' of extremely small improvised air hose plus one or two improvised air tanks. This setup is not going to be as flexible as that beautiful 60 gallon tank in your garage (drool !!!), but the average nail gun or roofing nailer just isn't going to know the difference. If you are doing a huge sandblasting job 1000' from your compressor, then you are going to have to work in phases as you wait for the tanks to recover due to diminished air flow in those long runs of tiny hose. Obviously, you will be using a relatively short and full diameter standard air hose between the remote tank(s) and the air tool. For me, this has never been a big problem. Of course, I own several compressors, including an extremely light-weight portable roof-style unit, plus several generators. So I can go remote if I need to. But, I can service my property and many of my neighbors by using dirt cheap improvised tiny diameter hose plus improvised air tanks rather than dragging around a much heavier generator and compressor. By the way, around here I see at least 4 or 5 old-style propane tanks sitting on the curb on trash day every week. The trash collectors aren't allowed to take them and I'm doing folks a favor by picking them up. I drain off the propane into my good tanks and then put those old tanks to use for storing compressed air. And it is all free. Good luck, Gideon |
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