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  #1   Report Post  
Donald Gares
 
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Default Air hose pressure/volume question

This may not be exactly the correct group but this is where I lurk so
you get my question.

I have my shop totally plumbed for air with both inside and outside
connectors and it sits approximately in the middle of our rather large
lot in a small community. The compressor is a 7 HP with a 60 gallon tank.

Now the question: I can reach anyplace on our lot with 200' of air hose
but I am curious if I will lose any volume and/or pressure through that
long of a hose. The hose is a normal 3/8" rubber air hose. I currently
have 100' and everything (nailers, & even my TIP sandblaster) seems to
work fine but I thought that I would ask prior to purchasing another 100'.

TIA

Don

  #2   Report Post  
stretch
 
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The amount of pressure drop will depend on the length of hose, the
internal diameter of the hose, the smootheness if the inside of the
hose and the amount of air consumption. Some air powered tools may
have internal regulators, so cranking up the pressure may overcome the
loss without hurting the tool. Or buy a larger diameter hose, that
would work better. I don't have the charts, but if someone does, they
will need more information as explained above.

Stretch

  #3   Report Post  
Joseph Meehan
 
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Donald Gares wrote:
This may not be exactly the correct group but this is where I lurk so
you get my question.

I have my shop totally plumbed for air with both inside and outside
connectors and it sits approximately in the middle of our rather large
lot in a small community. The compressor is a 7 HP with a 60 gallon
tank.
Now the question: I can reach anyplace on our lot with 200' of air
hose but I am curious if I will lose any volume and/or pressure
through that long of a hose. The hose is a normal 3/8" rubber air
hose. I currently have 100' and everything (nailers, & even my TIP
sandblaster) seems to work fine but I thought that I would ask prior
to purchasing another 100'.
TIA

Don


I would guess the only thing that might give you a problem would be the
sandblaster. Most tools would not have a problem and even the sandblaster
may be OK. Get it and try it.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia's Muire duit


  #4   Report Post  
No
 
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I am under the impression that the piping and hose add up the total volume.
So, if you have a 60 gal tank and add a lot of piping you increase your
capacity by the volume of the pipe/hose installed. You may get a gallon or
more of storage in your setup. I have never experience any issues with long
versus short hoses other that the weight of carrying around a long rubber
hose.

"Donald Gares" wrote in message
...
This may not be exactly the correct group but this is where I lurk so you
get my question.

I have my shop totally plumbed for air with both inside and outside
connectors and it sits approximately in the middle of our rather large lot
in a small community. The compressor is a 7 HP with a 60 gallon tank.

Now the question: I can reach anyplace on our lot with 200' of air hose
but I am curious if I will lose any volume and/or pressure through that
long of a hose. The hose is a normal 3/8" rubber air hose. I currently
have 100' and everything (nailers, & even my TIP sandblaster) seems to
work fine but I thought that I would ask prior to purchasing another 100'.

TIA

Don



  #5   Report Post  
Fred
 
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On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 23:24:46 -0500, Donald Gares
wrote:

This may not be exactly the correct group but this is where I lurk so
you get my question.

I have my shop totally plumbed for air with both inside and outside
connectors and it sits approximately in the middle of our rather large
lot in a small community. The compressor is a 7 HP with a 60 gallon tank.

Now the question: I can reach anyplace on our lot with 200' of air hose
but I am curious if I will lose any volume and/or pressure through that
long of a hose. The hose is a normal 3/8" rubber air hose. I currently
have 100' and everything (nailers, & even my TIP sandblaster) seems to
work fine but I thought that I would ask prior to purchasing another 100'.

TIA

Don


It is likely that 200 feet of hose will half your air volume. So
increase your air pressure to compensate.




  #6   Report Post  
SteveB
 
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"Donald Gares" wrote in message
...
This may not be exactly the correct group but this is where I lurk so you
get my question.

I have my shop totally plumbed for air with both inside and outside
connectors and it sits approximately in the middle of our rather large lot
in a small community. The compressor is a 7 HP with a 60 gallon tank.

Now the question: I can reach anyplace on our lot with 200' of air hose
but I am curious if I will lose any volume and/or pressure through that
long of a hose. The hose is a normal 3/8" rubber air hose. I currently
have 100' and everything (nailers, & even my TIP sandblaster) seems to
work fine but I thought that I would ask prior to purchasing another 100'.

TIA

Don


If you have quick connects, check the pressure coming off your tank. Now,
with THE SAME GAUGE, check the pressure at the end of the hose. There's
your answer.

I don't believe there would be any appreciable loss of flow, although I am
no expert. It will be nice to hear from someone who actually is in the
compressor business to give us the 100% for sure answer.

In the oilfield, we would run hundreds of feet of hose, but then, we had a
big Schram compressor backing it up.

Steve

Steve


  #7   Report Post  
Donald Gares
 
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Hey guys, thanks for all the replies....they were appreciated.

I will probably only be using a nailer at the most extreme distance
(hate to nail a 800' picket fence by hand) so I think that I will just
grab the extra hose and give it a try.

Cheers,

Don


Donald Gares wrote:
This may not be exactly the correct group but this is where I lurk so
you get my question.

I have my shop totally plumbed for air with both inside and outside
connectors and it sits approximately in the middle of our rather large
lot in a small community. The compressor is a 7 HP with a 60 gallon tank.

Now the question: I can reach anyplace on our lot with 200' of air hose
but I am curious if I will lose any volume and/or pressure through that
long of a hose. The hose is a normal 3/8" rubber air hose. I currently
have 100' and everything (nailers, & even my TIP sandblaster) seems to
work fine but I thought that I would ask prior to purchasing another 100'.

TIA

Don




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pjm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
 
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On Mon, 4 Apr 2005 09:48:40 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote:


"Donald Gares" wrote in message
...
This may not be exactly the correct group but this is where I lurk so you
get my question.

I have my shop totally plumbed for air with both inside and outside
connectors and it sits approximately in the middle of our rather large lot
in a small community. The compressor is a 7 HP with a 60 gallon tank.

Now the question: I can reach anyplace on our lot with 200' of air hose
but I am curious if I will lose any volume and/or pressure through that
long of a hose. The hose is a normal 3/8" rubber air hose. I currently
have 100' and everything (nailers, & even my TIP sandblaster) seems to
work fine but I thought that I would ask prior to purchasing another 100'.

TIA

Don


If you have quick connects, check the pressure coming off your tank. Now,
with THE SAME GAUGE, check the pressure at the end of the hose. There's
your answer.


Totally wrong. Couldn't be more wrong.

He could run a piece of 1/4 " tubing 1,000 feet, and get the
EXACT same pressure reading at both ends, AS LONG AS there was no
device actually trying to USE that air. The instant he USES any air,
the story changes.


I don't believe there would be any appreciable loss of flow, although I am
no expert. It will be nice to hear from someone who actually is in the
compressor business to give us the 100% for sure answer.


Well, the answer is : It will depend on how much air he wants
to use at the other end. A nailer, basically an intermittent-use
device, he would probably get away with. A sander or sand-blaster or
sprayer or grinder or pressure washer or such - a continuous use
device - different story. Then he needs to know the CFM consumption
and minimum pressure ( if minimum is satisfactory to his use needs )
of the device, and look up the flow restriction of his total piping /
tubing to the point of use, vs origin pressure at the tank and
pressure drop for tubing size.

Then, if he's off the charts ( too much pressure drop at
desired CFM ), the answer is 'buy a larger diameter hose, properly
sized as above.'


Click every day here to feed an animal !!! http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'

HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Free Temperature / Pressure charts for 38 Ref's http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/
  #9   Report Post  
pjm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
 
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On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 11:54:15 -0500, Donald Gares
wrote:

Hey guys, thanks for all the replies....they were appreciated.

I will probably only be using a nailer at the most extreme distance
(hate to nail a 800' picket fence by hand) so I think that I will just
grab the extra hose and give it a try.


You'll be fine. It might not be able to do quite as much
'rapid fire' as if you were closer, but it will be fine for that
purpose.

Do check prices - if a larger diameter hose isn't that much
more money, get it.


Click every day here to feed an animal !!! http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'

HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Free Temperature / Pressure charts for 38 Ref's http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/
  #10   Report Post  
Gideon
 
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Default

Good advise from somebody who understands what is going on.




  #11   Report Post  
Joseph Meehan
 
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SteveB wrote:
"Donald Gares" wrote in message
...

If you have quick connects, check the pressure coming off your tank. Now,
with THE SAME GAUGE, check the pressure at the end of the hose. There's
your answer.


That will only give you static pressure. Since you use dynamic pressure
you need to measure that. You would also need a "T" at the end of the hose
and measure it with the various tools connected. A sand plaster is going to
have a lower dynamic reading, but a nail gun is likely to have almost no
loss.


I don't believe there would be any appreciable loss of flow, although
I am no expert. It will be nice to hear from someone who actually is
in the compressor business to give us the 100% for sure answer.

In the oilfield, we would run hundreds of feet of hose, but then, we
had a big Schram compressor backing it up.

Steve

Steve


--
Joseph Meehan

Dia's Muire duit


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nospambob
 
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Default

It'd help if the "Good advice" was included in your post!

On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 17:34:23 GMT, "Gideon" wrote:

Good advise from somebody who understands what is going on.


  #13   Report Post  
Duane Bozarth
 
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nospambob wrote:

It'd help if the "Good advice" was included in your post!

On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 17:34:23 GMT, "Gideon" wrote:

Good advise from somebody who understands what is going on.


It would also help if you wouldn't top post...

But, in response to your comment, he (Gideon) was complimenting the
previous responsder for the lucid and correct answer...
  #14   Report Post  
pjm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
 
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On Tue, 05 Apr 2005 10:07:14 -0500, Duane Bozarth
wrote:

nospambob wrote:

It'd help if the "Good advice" was included in your post!

On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 17:34:23 GMT, "Gideon" wrote:

Good advise from somebody who understands what is going on.


It would also help if you wouldn't top post...

But, in response to your comment, he (Gideon) was complimenting the
previous responsder for the lucid and correct answer...


For which I would like to apologize. I'll try not to let it
happen again :-)


Click every day here to feed an animal !!! http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'

HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Free Temperature / Pressure charts for 38 Ref's http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/
  #16   Report Post  
pjm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
 
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On Tue, 05 Apr 2005 10:36:07 -0500, Duane Bozarth
wrote:

wrote:

On Tue, 05 Apr 2005 10:07:14 -0500, Duane Bozarth
wrote:

...
...he (Gideon) was complimenting the
previous responsder for the lucid and correct answer...


For which I would like to apologize. I'll try not to let it
happen again :-)


And rightly you should...what if usenet were to become a haven of
accurate and even potentially useful information????


Definite breach in the space / time continuum .....


Click every day here to feed an animal !!! http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'

HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Free Temperature / Pressure charts for 38 Ref's http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/
  #17   Report Post  
Gideon
 
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Donald,

There are extremely easy approaches to your situation.

What I suggest for you is to add one or more remote tanks to your system. You
can purchase small tanks or you can make your own by using old propane tanks,
freon tanks, helium tanks, etc. Obviously, you will want these tanks to have
quick connect fittings. These tanks are handy for several reasons:
1) The are nice portable tanks to put in the trunk of a vehicle for
emergency tire inflation.
2) Take them to the first day of basketball, soccer, football practice for
the tiny tots and you are a hero as you inflate everybody's sports balls
which are down to 4-5 psi.
3) They provide a buffered storage capability for remote operation when
hooked up to your home compressor system.

Some friends and I use EXTREMELY tiny hoses for long runs (200' - 1000')
of compressed air. The hose and the fittings are relatively inexpensive and
the setup works extremely well if:
1) There is sufficient tank capacity at the business end of the system
to provide reserve capacity.
2) We accept the fact that there is a recover time between tool uses.

If you are building a shed 1000' from your air compressor, then you can use
1000' of extremely small improvised air hose plus one or two improvised air
tanks. This setup is not going to be as flexible as that beautiful 60 gallon
tank in your garage (drool !!!), but the average nail gun or roofing nailer
just isn't going to know the difference. If you are doing a huge sandblasting
job 1000' from your compressor, then you are going to have to work in phases as
you wait for the tanks to recover due to diminished air flow in those long runs
of tiny hose. Obviously, you will be using a relatively short and full
diameter
standard air hose between the remote tank(s) and the air tool.

For me, this has never been a big problem. Of course, I own several
compressors, including an extremely light-weight portable roof-style unit, plus
several generators. So I can go remote if I need to. But, I can service my
property and many of my neighbors by using dirt cheap improvised tiny diameter
hose plus improvised air tanks rather than dragging around a much heavier
generator and compressor.

By the way, around here I see at least 4 or 5 old-style propane tanks sitting
on the curb on trash day every week. The trash collectors aren't allowed to
take them and I'm doing folks a favor by picking them up. I drain off the
propane into my good tanks and then put those old tanks to use for storing
compressed air. And it is all free.

Good luck,
Gideon


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