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#41
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w_tom wrote:
You had a 'whole house' protector. Did you have protection? What was and how was earth ground installed? You now admit that the building has two separate grounds. Therefore not effective protection. Furthermore, you don't discuss how that 'whole house' protector is earthed. Worse still, you don't even try to learn about earthing. Instead that simple paragraph from Zerosurge is everything one need know about earthing? Somehow you don't need know anything about earthing. The ground rods caused your damage. In troubleshooting the computer damage years ago I found the phone and power grounds unbonded. I bonded them because I'd known for 20 years that bonding was required. I thought the lack of bonding was rare until I talked to a telco man five years later. Still later, I read at the Zero Surge site that the lack of bonding is a common and serious problem. BTW, did you know no computer plugged into a Zero Surge protector has ever been damaged? You had damage to a grossly undersized plug-in protector. No damage to a protector. There was no plug-in protector for my TV and stereo. I had foolishly trusted my whole-house protector. That says you have no effective secondary protection and may not have primary protection either. Don't you think there would be a lot more damage in this neighborhood if the power company's lines weren't grounded? You had a 'whole house' protector. But (as was posted repeatedly and not answered): was it even earthed? I wonder why I didn't see your question before. It's not buried in the ground, but of course it's connected to the same neutral bar as the power company's ground wire, eight feet from my ground rod. Cows under a tree are the perfect example of multiple earth grounds. Your building that has multiple earth grounds has same problem. Four legged animals are more easily killed by lightning that strikes a tree because the cow now becomes part of the electrical circuit. Cow does not make a single point ground. Cow then becomes the electrical path of a circuit that includes the struck tree. Yes a ground wire may carry transients from many miles around. So will buried pipe lines. So will utility wires that terminate in front of your house. All the more reason why you must have a single point earth ground. Most buildings are like cows in that multiple grounds are inevitable: water supply, water drain, furnace, construction materials, power tool lying on the ground. Your single-point theory has led to thousands of deaths when people touched objects like faucets and phones during thunderstorms. A building needs bonding. Sometimes it needs multiple ground rods. Assumed: a voltage between AC hot and neutral caused that stereo damage. If true, the list of damage components would be quite short and only where the power cord connects. Stereo would have been easily repaired. But to have a long list of damage, then a destructive electrical circuit had to pass across the stereo. Destructive transients take the long path when seeking earth ground. Typically destructive transients enter on 'either or both' hot and neutral wire. Transients leave on some other conductive path. If a transient entered on hot and left on neutral, then the list of damaged components would be quite short - and easily repaired. You had extensive damage which mean it was a transient those plug-in protectors don't even claim to protect from. 'Too many damaged' components because transient entered on AC mains and exited elsewhere. Does electricity always choose the longest path to ground? Except the rabbit ears, the only conductors within several feet of the TV were the hot wire and the neutral. So now you're telling me the surge came in through the plug and exited through a lightning bolt? I was watching the TV. I saw no spark at all. Third example. Again, let's assume the transient entered via hot wire and left via neutral wire. Then those earth ground rods (that you blamed) were not involved in stereo damage. Your assumptions are wild speculation AND they contradict each other. Which is it? Damage enters on hot wire and left on neutral wire? Or the utility and code required earth ground rods put a surge into your stereo - via a wire those ground rods don't even connect to. Those earthing rods did not contribute to any damage if they had been part of single point earthing. But then you don't even demonstrate a circuit path for your claims. I'm the one who has been saying earthing had nothing to do with that incident. Unbonded grounds had zapped a computer and modem years earlier. And fourth is the little problem of where the electricity went to after it left stereo on neutral wire. Where on the neutral wire is the rest of a complete electrical circuit? Just another problem with "the transient entered on hot wire and left on neutral wire" theory. It has no science fact to support what is speculation hyped into fact - just like weapons of mass destruction. Where did current leaving the damage stereo then go via neutral wire? Back to ground through the breaker box. That's where current flows through all my neutral wires. Aren't your neutrals hooked up? |
#42
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Speculated only (without any numbers) that all wire is
perfectly conductive. An effective protector is earthed via a 'less than 10 foot' connection. A phrase that has been repeated how many times? Eight? Ten? Thirty? Distance is critical because wires are electronic components - especially when discussing destructive transients that occur within microseconds. Will that transient shunted by an adjacent 'plug-in' protector go to earth ground via the neutral wire? Lets assume a 50 foot connection to breaker box and earth ground. That means a 'so trivial' transient of 100 amps must transverse wire of less than 0.2 ohms resistance AND maybe 130 ohms impedance. 100 amps times 130 ohms is 13,000 volts. So the computer and adjacent protector are at something less than 13000 volts relative to earth. How can this be? Welcome to more electrical facts - especially earth ground - that plug-in protectors forget to mention. You tell me. Is that transient going to use a 13,000 volt neutral wire? Or will it find other destructive paths to earth? Other electrical conductors include the table, linoleum floor tile, some wall paints, that baseboard heater. Stereo is wired to speakers. Those speaker wire touch what? Numerous conductive electrical paths may exist. Neither that TV nor stereo was connected only to hot and neutral power wire. A common destructive path through both would be incoming on either or both AC wires, and then outgoing on any one of so many other destructive paths. If the transient only entered on AC hot and left on AC neutral, then internal protection inside both TV and stereo could have made that transient insignificant - no damage. But then Choreboy describes an electric circuit that entered on AC wire and exited somewhere else - as typically destructive transients would do. Lets assume, anyway, that entire 100 amp transient does seek earth ground via the neutral wire. That wire is bundled with other wires. That transient is inducing transients on all other wires. What is connected to those other wires? Stereo and TV. Just anther reason why the plug-in protector was not effective. The 'whole house' protector must make a 'less than 10 foot' connection to the same earth ground used by telephone, cable, and even satellite dish. You had a protector and suffered damage? Then a protector did not connect to a single point earth ground. Do we dispute the generations of professionals who have proven the critical need for single point ground? Lurkers can access a list of industry professional citations at: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus on 30 Mar 2005 entitled "UPS unit needed for the P4C800E-Deluxe" http://makeashorterlink.com/?X61C23DCA Unfortunately Choreboy provides no technical basis for his assumptions. Multiple grounds are inevitable? Wrong. The entire earth beneath a building could be one big single point earth ground if we used what has long been available before transistors even existed - Ufer grounding. It means building new buildings as if the transistor existed. Other solutions are suggested by utilities in that above long list of industry professional citations. In the meantime, Choreboy somehow assumes a plug-in protector is earthed by a grossly undersized product that does not even claim to provide that protection. He admits to multiple earth grounds but denies they can cause damage even though NIST figures demonstrate otherwise. He believes single point earth ground can be dangerous. He provides no technical reasons why nor even cites a single responsible citation or number. He had damage. The transient found earth ground, destructively, via his stereo and TV because a human permitted a transient inside the house. There is no way around those facts demonstrated in a full day's reading from industry professional citations. The protection is only as effective as its earth ground. Choreboy wrote: In troubleshooting the computer damage years ago I found the phone and power grounds unbonded. I bonded them because I'd known for 20 years that bonding was required. I thought the lack of bonding was rare until I talked to a telco man five years later. Still later, I read at the Zero Surge site that the lack of bonding is a common and serious problem. BTW, did you know no computer plugged into a Zero Surge protector has ever been damaged? ... Don't you think there would be a lot more damage in this neighborhood if the power company's lines weren't grounded? ... I wonder why I didn't see your question before. It's not buried in the ground, but of course it's connected to the same neutral bar as the power company's ground wire, eight feet from my ground rod. ... Most buildings are like cows in that multiple grounds are inevitable: water supply, water drain, furnace, construction materials, power tool lying on the ground. Your single-point theory has led to thousands of deaths when people touched objects like faucets and phones during thunderstorms. A building needs bonding. Sometimes it needs multiple ground rods. ... Does electricity always choose the longest path to ground? Except the rabbit ears, the only conductors within several feet of the TV were the hot wire and the neutral. So now you're telling me the surge came in through the plug and exited through a lightning bolt? I was watching the TV. I saw no spark at all. ... I'm the one who has been saying earthing had nothing to do with that incident. Unbonded grounds had zapped a computer and modem years earlier. ... Back to ground through the breaker box. That's where current flows through all my neutral wires. Aren't your neutrals hooked up? |
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