We have a gas boiler heating system with three zones. 1st zone is for
the downstairs, 2nd zone is for the upstairs and the 3rd zone is for
heating the hot water.

We are currently having problems with the 2nd zone in that it is keeping
the upstairs at 76 degrees. I have recently replaced the thermostat
upstairs and set it at 45 degrees. But the temperature still remains at
76.

But then for a week or so it seemed like when we turned the downstairs
heat off, the upstairs would turn off also. But yesterday and today we
turned the heat all the way down downstairs and the upstairs pipes
remained hot.

One thing of note, is that prior to replacing the mercury thermostat
with a digital thermostat, I did move the thermostats control up and
down (with the cover off) and did not see any sparks when the merury
made contact with the wires to start the heating process.

Hopefully someone out there can help us out. We don't want to be frying
in the middle of summer and having the ac compete with the heater.

Thanks in advance,
David

www.yellowpages.com

We can't fix it over the internet.

And why it everyone that has a problem goes out and buys a new thermostat
thinking that will solve the problem???


"David" wrote in message
.196...
We have a gas boiler heating system with three zones. 1st zone is for
the downstairs, 2nd zone is for the upstairs and the 3rd zone is for
heating the hot water.

We are currently having problems with the 2nd zone in that it is keeping
the upstairs at 76 degrees. I have recently replaced the thermostat
upstairs and set it at 45 degrees. But the temperature still remains at
76.

But then for a week or so it seemed like when we turned the downstairs
heat off, the upstairs would turn off also. But yesterday and today we
turned the heat all the way down downstairs and the upstairs pipes
remained hot.

One thing of note, is that prior to replacing the mercury thermostat
with a digital thermostat, I did move the thermostats control up and
down (with the cover off) and did not see any sparks when the merury
made contact with the wires to start the heating process.

Hopefully someone out there can help us out. We don't want to be frying
in the middle of summer and having the ac compete with the heater.

Thanks in advance,
David

Could it possibly be that the zone valve is defective and is stuck open?
When heat is called for by one of the other zones, hot water is pushed thru
the defective one. Possible I guess!

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 00:13:57 GMT, David wrote:


Hopefully someone out there can help us out. We don't want to be frying
in the middle of summer and having the ac compete with the heater.

Absolutely.

They are listed in your Yellow Pages under 'Heating and Air
Conditioning Repair'. Call them, they'd be glad to come out and fix
your problem.



Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'

HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online !! http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Free superheat charts for 38 Ref's online at http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/

On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 00:13:57 GMT, David wrote:


Hopefully someone out there can help us out. We don't want to be frying
in the middle of summer and having the ac compete with the heater.

Absolutely.

They are listed in your Yellow Pages under 'Heating and Air
Conditioning Repair'. Call them, they'd be glad to come out and fix
your problem.



Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'

HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online !! http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Free superheat charts for 38 Ref's online at http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/

Dear Doctor Itchy Crabs,

What about the burning sensation I have been experiencing in my nether
regions? I tried running out and getting a thermostat for that too..but
it still feels like I am sitting on a pile of fire ants. Seems to me you
have had plenty of experience in this area and could offer some homespun
advice...

"Dr. Hardcrab" wrote in
:

www.yellowpages.com

We can't fix it over the internet.

And why it everyone that has a problem goes out and buys a new
thermostat thinking that will solve the problem???


"David" wrote in message
.196...
We have a gas boiler heating system with three zones. 1st zone is for
the downstairs, 2nd zone is for the upstairs and the 3rd zone is for
heating the hot water.

We are currently having problems with the 2nd zone in that it is
keeping the upstairs at 76 degrees. I have recently replaced the
thermostat upstairs and set it at 45 degrees. But the temperature
still remains at 76.

But then for a week or so it seemed like when we turned the
downstairs heat off, the upstairs would turn off also. But yesterday
and today we turned the heat all the way down downstairs and the
upstairs pipes remained hot.

One thing of note, is that prior to replacing the mercury thermostat
with a digital thermostat, I did move the thermostats control up and
down (with the cover off) and did not see any sparks when the merury
made contact with the wires to start the heating process.

Hopefully someone out there can help us out. We don't want to be
frying in the middle of summer and having the ac compete with the
heater.

Thanks in advance,
David

David;
Despite what that expert that claims to be an MIT Alum (from his made up
e-mail (what are we having a troll-a-thon?) although I hear he is an expert
fisherman (I have seen him referred to as a Master-Baiter )) advises I
have to agree with the "gist" of what others have told you-call a reliable
professional in your area as apparently you don't understand the basics of
hot-water heat (I mean really--you replaced the t-stat that controls that
zone and still have the problem--ummm-this points to an obvious answer (ok-
2 or 3 but I am not there to see it)- and due to liability reasons I will
not go further as for the trained it is a fairly easy fix but to the
untrained.....). Call a pro in (preferably non-union so you don't get raped
but get references and check with your local BBB for any complaints.


Henry


"David" wrote in message
. 196...
"William W. Plummer" wrote in
newsLp9c.20238$JO3.26084@attbi_s04:


"David" wrote in message
.196...
We have a gas boiler heating system with three zones. 1st zone is for
the downstairs, 2nd zone is for the upstairs and the 3rd zone is for
heating the hot water.

We are currently having problems with the 2nd zone in that it is
keeping the upstairs at 76 degrees. I have recently replaced the
thermostat upstairs and set it at 45 degrees. But the temperature
still remains at 76.

But then for a week or so it seemed like when we turned the
downstairs heat off, the upstairs would turn off also. But yesterday
and today we turned the heat all the way down downstairs and the
upstairs pipes remained hot.

One thing of note, is that prior to replacing the mercury thermostat
with a digital thermostat, I did move the thermostats control up and
down (with the cover off) and did not see any sparks when the merury
made contact with the wires to start the heating process.

Hopefully someone out there can help us out. We don't want to be
frying in the middle of summer and having the ac compete with the
heater.

Heat rises. Any heat from the first floor winds up on the 2nd
floor. The 2nd floor thermostat will always be satisfied and the 1st
floor will alway be calling for heat.

Test the theory by nailing (?) a blanket across the top of the stairs
to cut off the air flow. Or use a candle to find the drafts. There
will be cold air flowing down along the stairs to replace the hot air
going up along the ceiling.


Thanks for responding,

I understand what you are saying. But the upstairs thermostat is not
satisfied and that is why I replaced it. It is not just hot air going
upstairs, the baseboard heat is still on up there, even if the pipes
downstairs are cold.

The heat downstairs is turned off and the heat upstairs is turned off.
All thermostats are at lowest. If we wait more then a few hours, the
pipes are still hot and giving off heat upstairs. The temperature
downstairs will be at 65 and the temperature upstairs will be at 76.

The heat is turned off and the baseboard heater is still chugging
along...



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.637 / Virus Database: 408 - Release Date: 3/20/2004

Lots of things are 'possible'. If he replaces every component
in the system, he could 'possibly' make the problem go away. If he
wants *just the bad part* replaced, and the others left alone, then he
needs to hit the Yellow Book.

On Sat, 27 Mar 2004 20:39:21 -0500, "AJW" wrote:

Could it possibly be that the zone valve is defective and is stuck open?
When heat is called for by one of the other zones, hot water is pushed thru
the defective one. Possible I guess!

wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 00:13:57 GMT, David wrote:


Hopefully someone out there can help us out. We don't want to be frying
in the middle of summer and having the ac compete with the heater.

Absolutely.

They are listed in your Yellow Pages under 'Heating and Air
Conditioning Repair'. Call them, they'd be glad to come out and fix
your problem.



Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'

HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online !! http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Free superheat charts for 38 Ref's online at http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/



Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'

HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online !! http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Free superheat charts for 38 Ref's online at http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/

David , the symptomology you enumerate is clear, and has one
cause, and one cause only, in your case.

You have your head planted so far up your ass you can see out
of your own nostrils.

Try blinking, sneezing and farting all at the same time and
see if that helps.

If it doesn't, then just go **** yourself, that should clear
it up nicely, and give you something to chew on, too.


On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 01:15:07 GMT, David wrote:

Dear Doctor Itchy Crabs,

What about the burning sensation I have been experiencing in my nether
regions? I tried running out and getting a thermostat for that too..but
it still feels like I am sitting on a pile of fire ants. Seems to me you
have had plenty of experience in this area and could offer some homespun
advice...

"Dr. Hardcrab" wrote in
:

www.yellowpages.com

We can't fix it over the internet.

And why it everyone that has a problem goes out and buys a new
thermostat thinking that will solve the problem???


"David" wrote in message
.196...
We have a gas boiler heating system with three zones. 1st zone is for
the downstairs, 2nd zone is for the upstairs and the 3rd zone is for
heating the hot water.

We are currently having problems with the 2nd zone in that it is
keeping the upstairs at 76 degrees. I have recently replaced the
thermostat upstairs and set it at 45 degrees. But the temperature
still remains at 76.

But then for a week or so it seemed like when we turned the
downstairs heat off, the upstairs would turn off also. But yesterday
and today we turned the heat all the way down downstairs and the
upstairs pipes remained hot.

One thing of note, is that prior to replacing the mercury thermostat
with a digital thermostat, I did move the thermostats control up and
down (with the cover off) and did not see any sparks when the merury
made contact with the wires to start the heating process.

Hopefully someone out there can help us out. We don't want to be
frying in the middle of summer and having the ac compete with the
heater.

Thanks in advance,
David


Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'

HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online !! http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Free superheat charts for 38 Ref's online at http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/

"David" wrote in message
.196...
We have a gas boiler heating system with three zones. 1st zone is for
the downstairs, 2nd zone is for the upstairs and the 3rd zone is for
heating the hot water.

We are currently having problems with the 2nd zone in that it is keeping
the upstairs at 76 degrees. I have recently replaced the thermostat
upstairs and set it at 45 degrees. But the temperature still remains at
76.

But then for a week or so it seemed like when we turned the downstairs
heat off, the upstairs would turn off also. But yesterday and today we
turned the heat all the way down downstairs and the upstairs pipes
remained hot.

One thing of note, is that prior to replacing the mercury thermostat
with a digital thermostat, I did move the thermostats control up and
down (with the cover off) and did not see any sparks when the merury
made contact with the wires to start the heating process.

Hopefully someone out there can help us out. We don't want to be frying
in the middle of summer and having the ac compete with the heater.

Heat rises. Any heat from the first floor winds up on the 2nd floor.
The 2nd floor thermostat will always be satisfied and the 1st floor will
alway be calling for heat.

Test the theory by nailing (?) a blanket across the top of the stairs to cut
off the air flow. Or use a candle to find the drafts. There will be cold
air flowing down along the stairs to replace the hot air going up along the
ceiling.

On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 01:20:21 GMT, "William W. Plummer"
wrote:


"David" wrote in message
4.196...
We have a gas boiler heating system with three zones. 1st zone is for
the downstairs, 2nd zone is for the upstairs and the 3rd zone is for
heating the hot water.

We are currently having problems with the 2nd zone in that it is keeping
the upstairs at 76 degrees. I have recently replaced the thermostat
upstairs and set it at 45 degrees. But the temperature still remains at
76.

But then for a week or so it seemed like when we turned the downstairs
heat off, the upstairs would turn off also. But yesterday and today we
turned the heat all the way down downstairs and the upstairs pipes
remained hot.

One thing of note, is that prior to replacing the mercury thermostat
with a digital thermostat, I did move the thermostats control up and
down (with the cover off) and did not see any sparks when the merury
made contact with the wires to start the heating process.

Hopefully someone out there can help us out. We don't want to be frying
in the middle of summer and having the ac compete with the heater.

Heat rises. Any heat from the first floor winds up on the 2nd floor.
The 2nd floor thermostat will always be satisfied and the 1st floor will
alway be calling for heat.

Test the theory by nailing (?) a blanket across the top of the stairs to cut
off the air flow. Or use a candle to find the drafts. There will be cold
air flowing down along the stairs to replace the hot air going up along the
ceiling.


Seeing as your post gives evidence of the fact that you're
ignorant of HVAC, why not shut the **** up instead of giving lame
wrong guesses ?



Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'

HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online !! http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Free superheat charts for 38 Ref's online at http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/

"William W. Plummer" wrote in
newsLp9c.20238$JO3.26084@attbi_s04:


"David" wrote in message
.196...
We have a gas boiler heating system with three zones. 1st zone is for
the downstairs, 2nd zone is for the upstairs and the 3rd zone is for
heating the hot water.

We are currently having problems with the 2nd zone in that it is
keeping the upstairs at 76 degrees. I have recently replaced the
thermostat upstairs and set it at 45 degrees. But the temperature
still remains at 76.

But then for a week or so it seemed like when we turned the
downstairs heat off, the upstairs would turn off also. But yesterday
and today we turned the heat all the way down downstairs and the
upstairs pipes remained hot.

One thing of note, is that prior to replacing the mercury thermostat
with a digital thermostat, I did move the thermostats control up and
down (with the cover off) and did not see any sparks when the merury
made contact with the wires to start the heating process.

Hopefully someone out there can help us out. We don't want to be
frying in the middle of summer and having the ac compete with the
heater.

Heat rises. Any heat from the first floor winds up on the 2nd
floor. The 2nd floor thermostat will always be satisfied and the 1st
floor will alway be calling for heat.

Test the theory by nailing (?) a blanket across the top of the stairs
to cut off the air flow. Or use a candle to find the drafts. There
will be cold air flowing down along the stairs to replace the hot air
going up along the ceiling.


Thanks for responding,

I understand what you are saying. But the upstairs thermostat is not
satisfied and that is why I replaced it. It is not just hot air going
upstairs, the baseboard heat is still on up there, even if the pipes
downstairs are cold.

The heat downstairs is turned off and the heat upstairs is turned off.
All thermostats are at lowest. If we wait more then a few hours, the
pipes are still hot and giving off heat upstairs. The temperature
downstairs will be at 65 and the temperature upstairs will be at 76.

The heat is turned off and the baseboard heater is still chugging
along...

Thanks for your idea. I think you are on to something. Gotta check it out.
That would explain it, even if both zones are turned down, the water heater
still requires heat, and that may cause hot H2O to go thru upstairs pipes!

"AJW" wrote in message
...
Could it possibly be that the zone valve is defective and is stuck open?
When heat is called for by one of the other zones, hot water is pushed
thru
the defective one. Possible I guess!

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 00:13:57 GMT, David wrote:


Hopefully someone out there can help us out. We don't want to be frying
in the middle of summer and having the ac compete with the heater.

Absolutely.

They are listed in your Yellow Pages under 'Heating and Air
Conditioning Repair'. Call them, they'd be glad to come out and fix
your problem.



Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'

HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online !! http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Free superheat charts for 38 Ref's online at
http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/

"Dr. Hardcrab" wrote in message
...
www.yellowpages.com

We can't fix it over the internet.

And why it everyone that has a problem goes out and buys a new thermostat
thinking that will solve the problem???

Kinda like the call the other day...

We've replaced the stat.......TWICE!!

Replaced the stat wire........

And we have even installed a new furnace.......

And the problem is still there......."can you fix it for us??"

Damn, man you changed everything.....
......I think they should replace the home now.....I think that's it!! :-)

--
kjpro
=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_
want it done right the first time.....
.....or pay more to have it done twice?
=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_

wrote in message
...
Lots of things are 'possible'. If he replaces every component
in the system, he could 'possibly' make the problem go away. If he
wants *just the bad part* replaced, and the others left alone, then he
needs to hit the Yellow Book.

Kinda like my above post eh?? :-)

--
kjpro
=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_
want it done right the first time.....
.....or pay more to have it done twice?
=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_

"Those who are lifting the world upward and onward are those who encourage
more than criticize."

-- Elizabeth Harrison

wrote in message
...
David , the symptomology you enumerate is clear, and has one
cause, and one cause only, in your case.

You have your head planted so far up your ass you can see out
of your own nostrils.

Try blinking, sneezing and farting all at the same time and
see if that helps.

If it doesn't, then just go **** yourself, that should clear
it up nicely, and give you something to chew on, too.


On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 01:15:07 GMT, David wrote:

Dear Doctor Itchy Crabs,

What about the burning sensation I have been experiencing in my nether
regions? I tried running out and getting a thermostat for that too..but
it still feels like I am sitting on a pile of fire ants. Seems to me you
have had plenty of experience in this area and could offer some homespun
advice...

"Dr. Hardcrab" wrote in
:

www.yellowpages.com

We can't fix it over the internet.

And why it everyone that has a problem goes out and buys a new
thermostat thinking that will solve the problem???


"David" wrote in message
.196...
We have a gas boiler heating system with three zones. 1st zone is for
the downstairs, 2nd zone is for the upstairs and the 3rd zone is for
heating the hot water.

We are currently having problems with the 2nd zone in that it is
keeping the upstairs at 76 degrees. I have recently replaced the
thermostat upstairs and set it at 45 degrees. But the temperature
still remains at 76.

But then for a week or so it seemed like when we turned the
downstairs heat off, the upstairs would turn off also. But yesterday
and today we turned the heat all the way down downstairs and the
upstairs pipes remained hot.

One thing of note, is that prior to replacing the mercury thermostat
with a digital thermostat, I did move the thermostats control up and
down (with the cover off) and did not see any sparks when the merury
made contact with the wires to start the heating process.

Hopefully someone out there can help us out. We don't want to be
frying in the middle of summer and having the ac compete with the
heater.

Thanks in advance,
David


Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'

HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online !! http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Free superheat charts for 38 Ref's online at http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/

No, actually it wouldn't. But I suppose you can't see that
from where your head is. So go ahead, chase the goose.

On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 02:58:44 GMT, "David"
wrote:

Thanks for your idea. I think you are on to something. Gotta check it out.
That would explain it, even if both zones are turned down, the water heater
still requires heat, and that may cause hot H2O to go thru upstairs pipes!

"AJW" wrote in message
...
Could it possibly be that the zone valve is defective and is stuck open?
When heat is called for by one of the other zones, hot water is pushed
thru
the defective one. Possible I guess!

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 00:13:57 GMT, David wrote:


Hopefully someone out there can help us out. We don't want to be frying
in the middle of summer and having the ac compete with the heater.

Absolutely.

They are listed in your Yellow Pages under 'Heating and Air
Conditioning Repair'. Call them, they'd be glad to come out and fix
your problem.



Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'

HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online !! http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Free superheat charts for 38 Ref's online at
http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/





Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'

HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online !! http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Free superheat charts for 38 Ref's online at http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/

Thanks for your advise. I did, supposedly, have a professional come in and
he said he couldn't figure out what the problem is, that is why I have
posted a message here to begin with. At least try to get some opinion or
ideas as to what the problem is so when I speak with someone that claims
they are a pro, I will have some idea if they are legit or not.

Thanks again,
David

"Henry77" wrote in message
news
David;
Despite what that expert that claims to be an MIT Alum (from his made up
e-mail (what are we having a troll-a-thon?) although I hear he is an
expert
fisherman (I have seen him referred to as a Master-Baiter )) advises I
have to agree with the "gist" of what others have told you-call a reliable
professional in your area as apparently you don't understand the basics
of
hot-water heat (I mean really--you replaced the t-stat that controls that
zone and still have the problem--ummm-this points to an obvious answer
(ok-
2 or 3 but I am not there to see it)- and due to liability reasons I will
not go further as for the trained it is a fairly easy fix but to the
untrained.....). Call a pro in (preferably non-union so you don't get
raped
but get references and check with your local BBB for any complaints.


Henry


"David" wrote in message
. 196...
"William W. Plummer" wrote in
newsLp9c.20238$JO3.26084@attbi_s04:


"David" wrote in message
.196...
We have a gas boiler heating system with three zones. 1st zone is for
the downstairs, 2nd zone is for the upstairs and the 3rd zone is for
heating the hot water.

We are currently having problems with the 2nd zone in that it is
keeping the upstairs at 76 degrees. I have recently replaced the
thermostat upstairs and set it at 45 degrees. But the temperature
still remains at 76.

But then for a week or so it seemed like when we turned the
downstairs heat off, the upstairs would turn off also. But yesterday
and today we turned the heat all the way down downstairs and the
upstairs pipes remained hot.

One thing of note, is that prior to replacing the mercury thermostat
with a digital thermostat, I did move the thermostats control up and
down (with the cover off) and did not see any sparks when the merury
made contact with the wires to start the heating process.

Hopefully someone out there can help us out. We don't want to be
frying in the middle of summer and having the ac compete with the
heater.

Heat rises. Any heat from the first floor winds up on the 2nd
floor. The 2nd floor thermostat will always be satisfied and the 1st
floor will alway be calling for heat.

Test the theory by nailing (?) a blanket across the top of the stairs
to cut off the air flow. Or use a candle to find the drafts. There
will be cold air flowing down along the stairs to replace the hot air
going up along the ceiling.


Thanks for responding,

I understand what you are saying. But the upstairs thermostat is not
satisfied and that is why I replaced it. It is not just hot air going
upstairs, the baseboard heat is still on up there, even if the pipes
downstairs are cold.

The heat downstairs is turned off and the heat upstairs is turned off.
All thermostats are at lowest. If we wait more then a few hours, the
pipes are still hot and giving off heat upstairs. The temperature
downstairs will be at 65 and the temperature upstairs will be at 76.

The heat is turned off and the baseboard heater is still chugging
along...



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.637 / Virus Database: 408 - Release Date: 3/20/2004

I wasn't trying to lift anything, I was just trying to get you
to shut the **** up.

Good luck on your rectal headectomy.

On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 03:32:18 GMT, "David"
wrote:

"Those who are lifting the world upward and onward are those who encourage
more than criticize."

-- Elizabeth Harrison

wrote in message
.. .
David , the symptomology you enumerate is clear, and has one
cause, and one cause only, in your case.

You have your head planted so far up your ass you can see out
of your own nostrils.

Try blinking, sneezing and farting all at the same time and
see if that helps.

If it doesn't, then just go **** yourself, that should clear
it up nicely, and give you something to chew on, too.


On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 01:15:07 GMT, David wrote:

Dear Doctor Itchy Crabs,

What about the burning sensation I have been experiencing in my nether
regions? I tried running out and getting a thermostat for that too..but
it still feels like I am sitting on a pile of fire ants. Seems to me you
have had plenty of experience in this area and could offer some homespun
advice...

"Dr. Hardcrab" wrote in
:

www.yellowpages.com

We can't fix it over the internet.

And why it everyone that has a problem goes out and buys a new
thermostat thinking that will solve the problem???


"David" wrote in message
.196...
We have a gas boiler heating system with three zones. 1st zone is for
the downstairs, 2nd zone is for the upstairs and the 3rd zone is for
heating the hot water.

We are currently having problems with the 2nd zone in that it is
keeping the upstairs at 76 degrees. I have recently replaced the
thermostat upstairs and set it at 45 degrees. But the temperature
still remains at 76.

But then for a week or so it seemed like when we turned the
downstairs heat off, the upstairs would turn off also. But yesterday
and today we turned the heat all the way down downstairs and the
upstairs pipes remained hot.

One thing of note, is that prior to replacing the mercury thermostat
with a digital thermostat, I did move the thermostats control up and
down (with the cover off) and did not see any sparks when the merury
made contact with the wires to start the heating process.

Hopefully someone out there can help us out. We don't want to be
frying in the middle of summer and having the ac compete with the
heater.

Thanks in advance,
David


Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'

HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online !! http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Free superheat charts for 38 Ref's online at http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/



Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'

HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online !! http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Free superheat charts for 38 Ref's online at http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/

I could not agree with you more. I do not know what I am talking about. That
is why I posted. This way I can get some ideas. That is what newsgroups are
all about. You have the opinion that I should not be posting, and others who
are not experts should not be posting. How does everyone else here feel?
That homeowners who don't have a clue shouldn't even post for fear of
attacks like yours?

wrote in message
...
No, actually it wouldn't. But I suppose you can't see that
from where your head is. So go ahead, chase the goose.

On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 02:58:44 GMT, "David"
wrote:

Thanks for your idea. I think you are on to something. Gotta check it
out.
That would explain it, even if both zones are turned down, the water
heater
still requires heat, and that may cause hot H2O to go thru upstairs
pipes!

"AJW" wrote in message
...
Could it possibly be that the zone valve is defective and is stuck
open?
When heat is called for by one of the other zones, hot water is pushed
thru
the defective one. Possible I guess!

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 00:13:57 GMT, David
wrote:


Hopefully someone out there can help us out. We don't want to be
frying
in the middle of summer and having the ac compete with the heater.

Absolutely.

They are listed in your Yellow Pages under 'Heating and Air
Conditioning Repair'. Call them, they'd be glad to come out and fix
your problem.



Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'

HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online !! http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Free superheat charts for 38 Ref's online at
http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/





Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'

HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online !! http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Free superheat charts for 38 Ref's online at http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/

On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 03:55:40 GMT, "David"
wrote:

I could not agree with you more. I do not know what I am talking about. That
is why I posted. This way I can get some ideas. That is what newsgroups are
all about. You have the opinion that I should not be posting, and others who
are not experts should not be posting. How does everyone else here feel?
That homeowners who don't have a clue shouldn't even post for fear of
attacks like yours?

In alt.hvac, that is exactly correct. It is not a
home-moaners group, and you should not have cross-posted to it.

BTW, that is the only forum I see your posts in, and if you
remove it from your cross-post list, you will be free of me forever.



wrote in message
.. .
No, actually it wouldn't. But I suppose you can't see that
from where your head is. So go ahead, chase the goose.

On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 02:58:44 GMT, "David"
wrote:

Thanks for your idea. I think you are on to something. Gotta check it
out.
That would explain it, even if both zones are turned down, the water
heater
still requires heat, and that may cause hot H2O to go thru upstairs
pipes!

"AJW" wrote in message
...
Could it possibly be that the zone valve is defective and is stuck
open?
When heat is called for by one of the other zones, hot water is pushed
thru
the defective one. Possible I guess!

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 00:13:57 GMT, David
wrote:


Hopefully someone out there can help us out. We don't want to be
frying
in the middle of summer and having the ac compete with the heater.

Absolutely.

They are listed in your Yellow Pages under 'Heating and Air
Conditioning Repair'. Call them, they'd be glad to come out and fix
your problem.



Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'

HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online !! http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Free superheat charts for 38 Ref's online at
http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/





Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'

HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online !! http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Free superheat charts for 38 Ref's online at http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/



Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'

HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online !! http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Free superheat charts for 38 Ref's online at http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/

I understand that. Your opinion is that newsgroups are used to shut people
down. My opinion is that newsgroups are to share ideas. That is what makes
the world an interesting place. We all have different opinions, and are
entitled to them.
wrote in message
...
I wasn't trying to lift anything, I was just trying to get you
to shut the **** up.

Good luck on your rectal headectomy.

On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 03:32:18 GMT, "David"
wrote:

"Those who are lifting the world upward and onward are those who
encourage
more than criticize."

-- Elizabeth Harrison

wrote in message
.. .
David , the symptomology you enumerate is clear, and has one
cause, and one cause only, in your case.

You have your head planted so far up your ass you can see out
of your own nostrils.

Try blinking, sneezing and farting all at the same time and
see if that helps.

If it doesn't, then just go **** yourself, that should clear
it up nicely, and give you something to chew on, too.


On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 01:15:07 GMT, David wrote:

Dear Doctor Itchy Crabs,

What about the burning sensation I have been experiencing in my nether
regions? I tried running out and getting a thermostat for that
too..but
it still feels like I am sitting on a pile of fire ants. Seems to me
you
have had plenty of experience in this area and could offer some
homespun
advice...

"Dr. Hardcrab" wrote in
:

www.yellowpages.com

We can't fix it over the internet.

And why it everyone that has a problem goes out and buys a new
thermostat thinking that will solve the problem???


"David" wrote in message
.196...
We have a gas boiler heating system with three zones. 1st zone is
for
the downstairs, 2nd zone is for the upstairs and the 3rd zone is
for
heating the hot water.

We are currently having problems with the 2nd zone in that it is
keeping the upstairs at 76 degrees. I have recently replaced the
thermostat upstairs and set it at 45 degrees. But the temperature
still remains at 76.

But then for a week or so it seemed like when we turned the
downstairs heat off, the upstairs would turn off also. But
yesterday
and today we turned the heat all the way down downstairs and the
upstairs pipes remained hot.

One thing of note, is that prior to replacing the mercury
thermostat
with a digital thermostat, I did move the thermostats control up
and
down (with the cover off) and did not see any sparks when the
merury
made contact with the wires to start the heating process.

Hopefully someone out there can help us out. We don't want to be
frying in the middle of summer and having the ac compete with the
heater.

Thanks in advance,
David


Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'

HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online !! http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Free superheat charts for 38 Ref's online at
http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/



Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'

HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online !! http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Free superheat charts for 38 Ref's online at http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/

On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 04:02:14 GMT, "David"
wrote:

I understand that. Your opinion is that newsgroups are used to shut people
down. My opinion is that newsgroups are to share ideas. That is what makes
the world an interesting place. We all have different opinions, and are
entitled to them.

My opinion is that you are as entitled to your opinion as you
are to your asshole. Neither of them interest me.

My opinion is that the reason there are over 50,000 newsgroups
is so everyone can discuss every topic, etc, *in the appropriate
forum*.

Your cross-post to alt.hvac, a group I founded in 1995 for
**the HVAC trade**, is no more appropriate than if you had
cross-posted to alt.****.my.doggy.in.the ass.

Just because a group exists, that doesn't mean your post
belongs there.



Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'

HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online !! http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Free superheat charts for 38 Ref's online at http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/

"David" wrote in message
...
I could not agree with you more. I do not know what I am talking about.
That
is why I posted. This way I can get some ideas. That is what newsgroups
are
all about. You have the opinion that I should not be posting, and others
who
are not experts should not be posting. How does everyone else here feel?

That alt.hvac is for professionals in the trade....

......and that you should have asked your question in alt.home.repair....
.....and not cross post your blabber here!!

That homeowners who don't have a clue shouldn't even post for fear of
attacks like yours?

HO questions are for alt.HOME.repair

See the HOME in there?? Like 'Home'owner.
(as in your questions)

--
kjpro
=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_
want it done right the first time.....
.....or pay more to have it done twice?
=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_

"David" wrote

"Those who are lifting the world upward and onward are those who encourage
more than criticize."

-- Elizabeth Harrison

"There is NO WAY that boy came outta MY c*nt!!!"

--David's Momma

"AJW" wrote

Could it possibly be that the zone valve is defective and is stuck open?
When heat is called for by one of the other zones, hot water is pushed
thru
the defective one. Possible I guess!

Or the flow control valve could be bad....

David wrote:
snipped

David,

Does your system use circulator pumps? Probably yes, unless it's really
ancient.

If it does, Then I assume that you've already determined that those
pumps are *not* running when you're finding the pipes and registers are
warm when they shouldn't be.

You may have a "gravity valve", properly called a "hydronic flow check
valve", which is intermittantly sticking open and allowing water to flow
through the piping even when the pump isn't running.

Those can be simple weighted valves which are easily pushed open by the
water pressure created by a circulator pump, but will prevent water
flowing through thermo-syphoning action. (Hot water is lighter than an
equivalent volume of cold water, you can work out the rest. The Model-T
Ford circulated its cooling water through the block and radiator that
way - without a water pump.)

These valves come in a variety of shapes and pipe sizes. Here's a link
showing what one type looks like:

http://www.conbraco.com/products/ph/...on=D&pid=35-FC

If you can't locate valves of this type in your heating system, they
just may be integral to the circulator pumps. Some have been made that way.

If you find that valve you could try a brute force approach and give it
a couple of taps on the side of the head with a hammer to see if you can
jar it closed so the affected pipes will get cold. That won't provide a
permanant fix, they'll still have to be taken apart for cleaning, or
replaced.

Depending on your technical prowess, available tools, and courage, you
may well find it best to leave the job to a professional. The tuition
cost for a DIY heating repair education can escalate pretty fast if
things start going wrong. G

Lastly, I have to agree that your posting your question to a
"professional group" wasn't worth wasting address keystrokes on. Those
guys are still stuck in a medieval guild mentality and for reasons I
can't fathom or appreciate, they seem take immense pleasure out of
acting like a bunch of 14 year olds in the school cafeteria, bullying
folks who aren'r in their little clique. Leave 'em to themselves, they
deserve each other.

Good luck, and let me know what the problem turns out to be.

Jeff

--

Jeff Wisnia (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"If you can smile when things are going wrong, you've thought of someone
to blame it on."

"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
...

Depending on your technical prowess, available tools, and courage, you
may well find it best to leave the job to a professional. The tuition
cost for a DIY heating repair education can escalate pretty fast if
things start going wrong. G

Not to meantion that if certain things go wrong,
the problems he has now are going to be small compared to the cost of a new
boiler.

Lastly, I have to agree that your posting your question to a
"professional group" wasn't worth wasting address keystrokes on. Those
guys are still stuck in a medieval guild mentality and for reasons I
can't fathom or appreciate, they seem take immense pleasure out of
acting like a bunch of 14 year olds in the school cafeteria, bullying
folks who aren'r in their little clique. Leave 'em to themselves, they
deserve each other.

Well just what do you do for a living??
*Cause by your post.......we know it's not HVAC.

Jeff

Ask yourself this question:

*If* you owned your own HVAC company,
and you gave advice to someone over the net that takes it the wrong way....
.....and gets hurt or kills themself or someone while doing so.....
...........would you like to lose everything you have that makes you money to
survive??
(and everything you have worked so hard to accumulate?)

*We* don't....we like our jobs and take pride in doing the best job
possible.
We are not in the business to take unnecessary risks that could jeopardise
everything we do for the rest of our lives.

And by reading this guys post.....he has no clue.....nor can any of us see
his actual system that's installed in his home....

Is it even properly installed and safe??? (who knows)
What shape is the system in? (who knows)

No brand meantioned,
no model numbers meantioned,
no links to pictures,
no clues what so ever to what he has installed in his home.

BTW, I have a vehicle that won't run.......what's wrong with it???
(get the picture?)

--
kjpro
=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_
want it done right the first time.....
.....or pay more to have it done twice?
=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_

"PrecisionMachinisT" wrote in message
...
Dont ever tell someone to go jump off a cliff, for you could get
sued......

G

Nah......just tell them to go.....well, never mind. :-)

--

SVL


--
kjpro
=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_
want it done right the first time.....
.....or pay more to have it done twice?
=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_

"kjpro" kjpro @ starband . net wrote in message
...
"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
...

Depending on your technical prowess, available tools, and courage, you
may well find it best to leave the job to a professional. The tuition
cost for a DIY heating repair education can escalate pretty fast if
things start going wrong. G

Not to meantion that if certain things go wrong,
the problems he has now are going to be small compared to the cost of a
new
boiler.

Lastly, I have to agree that your posting your question to a
"professional group" wasn't worth wasting address keystrokes on. Those
guys are still stuck in a medieval guild mentality and for reasons I
can't fathom or appreciate, they seem take immense pleasure out of
acting like a bunch of 14 year olds in the school cafeteria, bullying
folks who aren'r in their little clique. Leave 'em to themselves, they
deserve each other.

Well just what do you do for a living??
*Cause by your post.......we know it's not HVAC.

Jeff

Ask yourself this question:

*If* you owned your own HVAC company,
and you gave advice to someone over the net that takes it the wrong
way....
....and gets hurt or kills themself or someone while doing so.....
..........would you like to lose everything you have that makes you money
to
survive??
(and everything you have worked so hard to accumulate?)

*We* don't....we like our jobs and take pride in doing the best job
possible.
We are not in the business to take unnecessary risks that could jeopardise
everything we do for the rest of our lives.

And by reading this guys post.....he has no clue.....nor can any of us see
his actual system that's installed in his home....

Is it even properly installed and safe??? (who knows)
What shape is the system in? (who knows)

No brand meantioned,
no model numbers meantioned,
no links to pictures,
no clues what so ever to what he has installed in his home.

BTW, I have a vehicle that won't run.......what's wrong with it???
(get the picture?)


Dont ever tell someone to go jump off a cliff, for you could get sued......

G

--

SVL

David wrote:
We have a gas boiler heating system with three zones. 1st zone is for
the downstairs, 2nd zone is for the upstairs and the 3rd zone is for
heating the hot water.

We are currently having problems with the 2nd zone in that it is keeping
the upstairs at 76 degrees. I have recently replaced the thermostat
upstairs and set it at 45 degrees. But the temperature still remains at
76.

But then for a week or so it seemed like when we turned the downstairs
heat off, the upstairs would turn off also. But yesterday and today we
turned the heat all the way down downstairs and the upstairs pipes
remained hot.

One thing of note, is that prior to replacing the mercury thermostat
with a digital thermostat, I did move the thermostats control up and
down (with the cover off) and did not see any sparks when the merury
made contact with the wires to start the heating process.

Hopefully someone out there can help us out. We don't want to be frying
in the middle of summer and having the ac compete with the heater.

Thanks in advance,
David

You need a new boiler

David wrote:

We have a gas boiler heating system with three zones. 1st zone is for
the downstairs, 2nd zone is for the upstairs and the 3rd zone is for
heating the hot water.

We are currently having problems with the 2nd zone in that it is keeping
the upstairs at 76 degrees. I have recently replaced the thermostat
upstairs and set it at 45 degrees. But the temperature still remains at
76.

But then for a week or so it seemed like when we turned the downstairs
heat off, the upstairs would turn off also. But yesterday and today we
turned the heat all the way down downstairs and the upstairs pipes
remained hot.

One thing of note, is that prior to replacing the mercury thermostat
with a digital thermostat, I did move the thermostats control up and
down (with the cover off) and did not see any sparks when the merury
made contact with the wires to start the heating process.

Hopefully someone out there can help us out. We don't want to be frying
in the middle of summer and having the ac compete with the heater.

Thanks in advance,
David

You need a new boiler

David wrote in message 4.196...
We have a gas boiler heating system with three zones. 1st zone is for
the downstairs, 2nd zone is for the upstairs and the 3rd zone is for
heating the hot water.

We are currently having problems with the 2nd zone in that it is keeping
the upstairs at 76 degrees. I have recently replaced the thermostat
upstairs and set it at 45 degrees. But the temperature still remains at
76.

But then for a week or so it seemed like when we turned the downstairs
heat off, the upstairs would turn off also. But yesterday and today we
turned the heat all the way down downstairs and the upstairs pipes
remained hot.

One thing of note, is that prior to replacing the mercury thermostat
with a digital thermostat, I did move the thermostats control up and
down (with the cover off) and did not see any sparks when the merury
made contact with the wires to start the heating process.

Hopefully someone out there can help us out. We don't want to be frying
in the middle of summer and having the ac compete with the heater.

Thanks in advance,
David

Your 2nd zone valve is stucked!

kjpro wrote:
"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
...


Depending on your technical prowess, available tools, and courage, you
may well find it best to leave the job to a professional. The tuition
cost for a DIY heating repair education can escalate pretty fast if
things start going wrong. G


Not to meantion that if certain things go wrong,
the problems he has now are going to be small compared to the cost of a new
boiler.


Lastly, I have to agree that your posting your question to a
"professional group" wasn't worth wasting address keystrokes on. Those
guys are still stuck in a medieval guild mentality and for reasons I
can't fathom or appreciate, they seem take immense pleasure out of
acting like a bunch of 14 year olds in the school cafeteria, bullying
folks who aren'r in their little clique. Leave 'em to themselves, they
deserve each other.


Well just what do you do for a living??
*Cause by your post.......we know it's not HVAC.

Well, I've been retired for about five years, from a very satisfying
engineering career, flip flopping between the aerospace and petroleum
equipment industries, designing everthing from ball valve fuel oil truck
delivery nozzles to the cesium atomic clocks still whizzing around on
the GPS satellites. And, with regard to the previously flamed poster who
may or may not have been a "Brass Rat" (an MIT alumnus), I am one, class
of '57 thank you. Google my name if you must know more.


Jeff


Ask yourself this question:

*If* you owned your own HVAC company,
and you gave advice to someone over the net that takes it the wrong way....
....and gets hurt or kills themself or someone while doing so.....
..........would you like to lose everything you have that makes you money to
survive??
(and everything you have worked so hard to accumulate?)

I absolutely agree, and if I were in the HVAC business I'd certainly
have made a much stronger disclaimer that the "tuition cost" one I gave
toDavid. But, I wouldn't give him a wise ass answer the way the first
responder to his post did, which did nothing but exasserbate the
situation and turn it into a name calling contest, with what appeared to
be a bunch of you pro's trying to see who could come up with the
funniest one.

*We* don't....we like our jobs and take pride in doing the best job
possible.
We are not in the business to take unnecessary risks that could jeopardise
everything we do for the rest of our lives.

And by reading this guys post.....he has no clue.....nor can any of us see
his actual system that's installed in his home....

Is it even properly installed and safe??? (who knows)
What shape is the system in? (who knows)

No brand meantioned,
no model numbers meantioned,
no links to pictures,
no clues what so ever to what he has installed in his home.

Well, *some clues* at least. We can accept that it's gas, not oil or
solar, he must know that from paying a gas bill. There most likely *are*
two zones since he probably can see that there are two thermostats.
Plus, we know it's hydronic, 'cause I believe he could tell the
difference between that and forced air.

The poor guy did admit in a later post that he'd already been frustrated
by a supposed pro throwing his hands up in the air, and he wasn't
looking for DIY instructions. The troubleshooting tree for the kind of
problem he described isn't all that big. Malfunctioning zone valves were
already suggested, I was just sticking my oar in regarding the gravity
check valves in case he has a system with two circulating pumps and no
zone valves, in which case a check valve stuck open would be a likely
cause of his problem.

BTW, I have a vehicle that won't run.......what's wrong with it???
(get the picture?)


Yes. (Do the headlights work? Did you run out of Gas? Any puddles under
it?) David may "know nothing" about his system, but it's presumtious to
assume that he incapable of learning more about it.

Many of the guys on pdaxs.services.plumbing jump on homeowners who post
problems in a similar way, but thankfully a few of them do offer helpful
opinions about how to further diagnose a problem, but usually politely
advise against tackling more than the OP's capable of, and give them
sensible reasons why they shouldn't. That sort of approach might have
helped here too.

Best Regards,

Jeff
--

Jeff Wisnia (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"If you can smile when things are going wrong, you've thought of someone
to blame it on."

Jeff,

Jeff,

Thanks for your post. Out of all the posts you and AJW's have been the most
helpful and informative. I am not the type of person that will just jump
feet first into a problem. I know my capabilities and what I am willing to
take on myself or to hand over to a pro. But the first thing I want to do is
educate myself as to what I am dealing with. Then I will, hopefully, have a
reasonable amount of knowledge so that when I talk to an HVAC person, I will
be able to communicate with him better and understand some, not all, of the
HVAC lingo. That will also help me know if an HVAC person is being
reasonable with his diagnostics.

If the problem was as simple as replacing a fuse, which I know it is not,
then I would handle it myself rather than wasting my time or a plumbers time
on something that simple. On the other hand, if the problem is more involved
and potentially could be dangerous to myself and/or cause harm to my boiler
and/or house, then I would rather hire a "Professional" to do it for me.

BTW, I had been wanting to replace the thermostats anyways because they were
old and ugly. This just gave me an excuse to at least try and see if it
might work. Obviously it didn't, but in the mean time the thermostat has
been replaced with something that is nicer.

David

"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
...


kjpro wrote:
"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
...


Depending on your technical prowess, available tools, and courage, you
may well find it best to leave the job to a professional. The tuition
cost for a DIY heating repair education can escalate pretty fast if
things start going wrong. G


Not to meantion that if certain things go wrong,
the problems he has now are going to be small compared to the cost of a
new
boiler.


Lastly, I have to agree that your posting your question to a
"professional group" wasn't worth wasting address keystrokes on. Those
guys are still stuck in a medieval guild mentality and for reasons I
can't fathom or appreciate, they seem take immense pleasure out of
acting like a bunch of 14 year olds in the school cafeteria, bullying
folks who aren'r in their little clique. Leave 'em to themselves, they
deserve each other.


Well just what do you do for a living??
*Cause by your post.......we know it's not HVAC.

Well, I've been retired for about five years, from a very satisfying
engineering career, flip flopping between the aerospace and petroleum
equipment industries, designing everthing from ball valve fuel oil truck
delivery nozzles to the cesium atomic clocks still whizzing around on
the GPS satellites. And, with regard to the previously flamed poster who
may or may not have been a "Brass Rat" (an MIT alumnus), I am one, class
of '57 thank you. Google my name if you must know more.


Jeff


Ask yourself this question:

*If* you owned your own HVAC company,
and you gave advice to someone over the net that takes it the wrong
way....
....and gets hurt or kills themself or someone while doing so.....
..........would you like to lose everything you have that makes you
money to
survive??
(and everything you have worked so hard to accumulate?)

I absolutely agree, and if I were in the HVAC business I'd certainly
have made a much stronger disclaimer that the "tuition cost" one I gave
toDavid. But, I wouldn't give him a wise ass answer the way the first
responder to his post did, which did nothing but exasserbate the
situation and turn it into a name calling contest, with what appeared to
be a bunch of you pro's trying to see who could come up with the
funniest one.

*We* don't....we like our jobs and take pride in doing the best job
possible.
We are not in the business to take unnecessary risks that could
jeopardise
everything we do for the rest of our lives.

And by reading this guys post.....he has no clue.....nor can any of us
see
his actual system that's installed in his home....

Is it even properly installed and safe??? (who knows)
What shape is the system in? (who knows)

No brand meantioned,
no model numbers meantioned,
no links to pictures,
no clues what so ever to what he has installed in his home.

Well, *some clues* at least. We can accept that it's gas, not oil or
solar, he must know that from paying a gas bill. There most likely *are*
two zones since he probably can see that there are two thermostats.
Plus, we know it's hydronic, 'cause I believe he could tell the
difference between that and forced air.

The poor guy did admit in a later post that he'd already been frustrated
by a supposed pro throwing his hands up in the air, and he wasn't
looking for DIY instructions. The troubleshooting tree for the kind of
problem he described isn't all that big. Malfunctioning zone valves were
already suggested, I was just sticking my oar in regarding the gravity
check valves in case he has a system with two circulating pumps and no
zone valves, in which case a check valve stuck open would be a likely
cause of his problem.

BTW, I have a vehicle that won't run.......what's wrong with it???
(get the picture?)


Yes. (Do the headlights work? Did you run out of Gas? Any puddles under
it?) David may "know nothing" about his system, but it's presumtious to
assume that he incapable of learning more about it.

Many of the guys on pdaxs.services.plumbing jump on homeowners who post
problems in a similar way, but thankfully a few of them do offer helpful
opinions about how to further diagnose a problem, but usually politely
advise against tackling more than the OP's capable of, and give them
sensible reasons why they shouldn't. That sort of approach might have
helped here too.

Best Regards,

Jeff
--

Jeff Wisnia (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"If you can smile when things are going wrong, you've thought of someone
to blame it on."

Jeff, you have to realise that this (alt.hvac) is NOT a DYI group or a
question and answer forum. It gets very tiresome when people ask the same
questions over and over again (for years!!) because they are too lazy to
RESEARCH it. They just want someone to do all the work for them. Now, I
agree, the OP said he had tried a local contractor and didn't get
satifaction. But he has to realise: If that guy couldn't figure it out, AND
HE WAS THERE!!, how does he expect someone to do it OVER THE INTERNET!!!!!

There are enough capable people in alt.home.repair. Best if people keep
homeowner questions there......



"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
...


kjpro wrote:
"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
...


Depending on your technical prowess, available tools, and courage, you
may well find it best to leave the job to a professional. The tuition
cost for a DIY heating repair education can escalate pretty fast if
things start going wrong. G


Not to meantion that if certain things go wrong,
the problems he has now are going to be small compared to the cost of a
new
boiler.


Lastly, I have to agree that your posting your question to a
"professional group" wasn't worth wasting address keystrokes on. Those
guys are still stuck in a medieval guild mentality and for reasons I
can't fathom or appreciate, they seem take immense pleasure out of
acting like a bunch of 14 year olds in the school cafeteria, bullying
folks who aren'r in their little clique. Leave 'em to themselves, they
deserve each other.


Well just what do you do for a living??
*Cause by your post.......we know it's not HVAC.

Well, I've been retired for about five years, from a very satisfying
engineering career, flip flopping between the aerospace and petroleum
equipment industries, designing everthing from ball valve fuel oil truck
delivery nozzles to the cesium atomic clocks still whizzing around on
the GPS satellites. And, with regard to the previously flamed poster who
may or may not have been a "Brass Rat" (an MIT alumnus), I am one, class
of '57 thank you. Google my name if you must know more.


Jeff


Ask yourself this question:

*If* you owned your own HVAC company,
and you gave advice to someone over the net that takes it the wrong
way....
....and gets hurt or kills themself or someone while doing so.....
..........would you like to lose everything you have that makes you
money to
survive??
(and everything you have worked so hard to accumulate?)

I absolutely agree, and if I were in the HVAC business I'd certainly
have made a much stronger disclaimer that the "tuition cost" one I gave
toDavid. But, I wouldn't give him a wise ass answer the way the first
responder to his post did, which did nothing but exasserbate the
situation and turn it into a name calling contest, with what appeared to
be a bunch of you pro's trying to see who could come up with the
funniest one.

*We* don't....we like our jobs and take pride in doing the best job
possible.
We are not in the business to take unnecessary risks that could
jeopardise
everything we do for the rest of our lives.

And by reading this guys post.....he has no clue.....nor can any of us
see
his actual system that's installed in his home....

Is it even properly installed and safe??? (who knows)
What shape is the system in? (who knows)

No brand meantioned,
no model numbers meantioned,
no links to pictures,
no clues what so ever to what he has installed in his home.

Well, *some clues* at least. We can accept that it's gas, not oil or
solar, he must know that from paying a gas bill. There most likely *are*
two zones since he probably can see that there are two thermostats.
Plus, we know it's hydronic, 'cause I believe he could tell the
difference between that and forced air.

The poor guy did admit in a later post that he'd already been frustrated
by a supposed pro throwing his hands up in the air, and he wasn't
looking for DIY instructions. The troubleshooting tree for the kind of
problem he described isn't all that big. Malfunctioning zone valves were
already suggested, I was just sticking my oar in regarding the gravity
check valves in case he has a system with two circulating pumps and no
zone valves, in which case a check valve stuck open would be a likely
cause of his problem.

BTW, I have a vehicle that won't run.......what's wrong with it???
(get the picture?)


Yes. (Do the headlights work? Did you run out of Gas? Any puddles under
it?) David may "know nothing" about his system, but it's presumtious to
assume that he incapable of learning more about it.

Many of the guys on pdaxs.services.plumbing jump on homeowners who post
problems in a similar way, but thankfully a few of them do offer helpful
opinions about how to further diagnose a problem, but usually politely
advise against tackling more than the OP's capable of, and give them
sensible reasons why they shouldn't. That sort of approach might have
helped here too.

Best Regards,

Jeff
--

Jeff Wisnia (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"If you can smile when things are going wrong, you've thought of someone
to blame it on."

On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 16:32:55 GMT, "Dr. Hardcrab"
wrote:

Jeff, you have to realise that this (alt.hvac) is NOT a DYI group or a
question and answer forum. It gets very tiresome when people ask the same
questions over and over again (for years!!) because they are too lazy to
RESEARCH it. They just want someone to do all the work for them. Now, I
agree, the OP said he had tried a local contractor and didn't get
satifaction. But he has to realise: If that guy couldn't figure it out, AND
HE WAS THERE!!, how does he expect someone to do it OVER THE INTERNET!!!!!

There are enough capable people in alt.home.repair. Best if people keep
homeowner questions there......

And those people from alt.hvac who wish to respond to HO
questions also read alt.home.repair, for that purpose.



Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'

HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online !! http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Free superheat charts for 38 Ref's online at http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/

Thanks Sniper,

That is what I have been thinking, just wanted to feel the newsgroups out
and see if it could be something else.

I know the boiler is working correctly as far as the diagnostic lights are
telling me. I know I am getting heat so no blockage. Therefore it would have
to be something wrong between the boiler and the radiators. Which would
signal to me something with the valves. Either wiring or the valve itself.

Just FYI, the valves I have are Honeywell V8043E valves.

David

"Sniper" wrote in message
om...
David wrote in message
4.196...
We have a gas boiler heating system with three zones. 1st zone is for
the downstairs, 2nd zone is for the upstairs and the 3rd zone is for
heating the hot water.

We are currently having problems with the 2nd zone in that it is keeping
the upstairs at 76 degrees. I have recently replaced the thermostat
upstairs and set it at 45 degrees. But the temperature still remains at
76.

But then for a week or so it seemed like when we turned the downstairs
heat off, the upstairs would turn off also. But yesterday and today we
turned the heat all the way down downstairs and the upstairs pipes
remained hot.

One thing of note, is that prior to replacing the mercury thermostat
with a digital thermostat, I did move the thermostats control up and
down (with the cover off) and did not see any sparks when the merury
made contact with the wires to start the heating process.

Hopefully someone out there can help us out. We don't want to be frying
in the middle of summer and having the ac compete with the heater.

Thanks in advance,
David

Your 2nd zone valve is stucked!

David wrote:

Thanks Sniper,

That is what I have been thinking, just wanted to feel the newsgroups out
and see if it could be something else.

I know the boiler is working correctly as far as the diagnostic lights are
telling me. I know I am getting heat so no blockage. Therefore it would have
to be something wrong between the boiler and the radiators. Which would
signal to me something with the valves. Either wiring or the valve itself.

Just FYI, the valves I have are Honeywell V8043E valves.

David

David:

You need a new boiler.

Rich

Rich

What makes you think it is a boiler? Especially when the diagnostic lights
for the boiler says it is working just fine?

David

"rich " "rich "@work wrote in message
...
David wrote:

Thanks Sniper,

That is what I have been thinking, just wanted to feel the newsgroups
out
and see if it could be something else.

I know the boiler is working correctly as far as the diagnostic lights
are
telling me. I know I am getting heat so no blockage. Therefore it would
have
to be something wrong between the boiler and the radiators. Which would
signal to me something with the valves. Either wiring or the valve
itself.

Just FYI, the valves I have are Honeywell V8043E valves.

David

David:

You need a new boiler.

Rich

David wrote:

Rich

What makes you think it is a boiler? Especially when the diagnostic lights
for the boiler says it is working just fine?

David

I have been in this business many years, and
I just KNOW that you need a new boiler.

Never question me.