Home Ownership (misc.consumers.house)

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1   Report Post  
Posted to misc.consumers.house
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 25
Default Generator 220v Twistlock - (2) 110v outlets

I am planning to install a power inlet box on the side of my house to
accept an L14-30 connection from my generator's twist lock receptacle
L14-30R. Here is the particular outdoor enclosure that I plan to use:
http://www.gen-tran.com/eshop/10Expa...ductCode=14302

From there I would run a small piece of conduit from that input box to

a new electrical box on the opposite side of the wall in the house. I
plan to wire a separate duplex outlet to each leg of the 220 with all
the neutrals connected to the common neutral. This set of outlets
would obviously be in no way connected to the rest of the house's
wiring system and I would use a different color of outlets. Would this
be up to code?

The whole concept here is to have a convenient way of bringing the
generator power in to the house without having to leave any doors or
windows open to allow an extension cord in. These 4 outlets would be
in a convenient location in the house where I can plug in my critical
electrical items.

Thanks in advance.

Chris

  #2   Report Post  
Posted to misc.consumers.house
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 75
Default Generator 220v Twistlock - (2) 110v outlets


satellite_chris wrote:
I am planning to install a power inlet box on the side of my house to
accept an L14-30 connection from my generator's twist lock receptacle
L14-30R. Here is the particular outdoor enclosure that I plan to use:
http://www.gen-tran.com/eshop/10Expa...ductCode=14302

From there I would run a small piece of conduit from that input box to

a new electrical box on the opposite side of the wall in the house. I
plan to wire a separate duplex outlet to each leg of the 220 with all
the neutrals connected to the common neutral. This set of outlets
would obviously be in no way connected to the rest of the house's
wiring system and I would use a different color of outlets. Would this
be up to code?

The whole concept here is to have a convenient way of bringing the
generator power in to the house without having to leave any doors or
windows open to allow an extension cord in. These 4 outlets would be
in a convenient location in the house where I can plug in my critical
electrical items.

Thanks in advance.

Chris


I'm not an electrician and don't know whether you idea would be up to
code or not. One question I would have is what you are going to do with
the ground wire.

What you are planning sounds like a heck of a lot of work and it won't
be all that useful when you get done. I wonder if there's some way that
you could (legally) connect your generator directly to your service
entrance box via some sort of inexpensive, manual transfer switch?

  #3   Report Post  
Posted to misc.consumers.house
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 746
Default Generator 220v Twistlock - (2) 110v outlets

wrote:

satellite_chris wrote:

I am planning to install a power inlet box on the side of my house to
accept an L14-30 connection from my generator's twist lock receptacle
L14-30R. Here is the particular outdoor enclosure that I plan to use:
http://www.gen-tran.com/eshop/10Expa...ductCode=14302

From there I would run a small piece of conduit from that input box to

a new electrical box on the opposite side of the wall in the house. I
plan to wire a separate duplex outlet to each leg of the 220 with all
the neutrals connected to the common neutral. This set of outlets
would obviously be in no way connected to the rest of the house's
wiring system and I would use a different color of outlets. Would this
be up to code?

The whole concept here is to have a convenient way of bringing the
generator power in to the house without having to leave any doors or
windows open to allow an extension cord in. These 4 outlets would be
in a convenient location in the house where I can plug in my critical
electrical items.

Thanks in advance.

Chris



I'm not an electrician and don't know whether you idea would be up to
code or not. One question I would have is what you are going to do with
the ground wire.

What you are planning sounds like a heck of a lot of work and it won't
be all that useful when you get done. I wonder if there's some way that
you could (legally) connect your generator directly to your service
entrance box via some sort of inexpensive, manual transfer switch?



The gennie absolutely must be grounded (to earth) and the
Neutral bonded to Ground. Rather than sticking a pipe in the
gound, consider running an equipment ground to the grounding
point used by the house service entrance.

But your idea to run a conduit into the house for dedicated
receptacles sounds good, since it won't in any way be connected
to the incoming power line.

"inexpensive, manual transfer switch?" They are neither
inexpensive nor simple. Done properly means a lot of
tricky work.

For more opinions on this setup, post over to: alt.home.repair

Jim
  #4   Report Post  
Posted to misc.consumers.house
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 75
Default Generator 220v Twistlock - (2) 110v outlets


satellite_chris wrote:
I am planning to install a power inlet box on the side of my house to
accept an L14-30 connection from my generator's twist lock receptacle
L14-30R. Here is the particular outdoor enclosure that I plan to use:
http://www.gen-tran.com/eshop/10Expa...ductCode=14302

From there I would run a small piece of conduit from that input box to

a new electrical box on the opposite side of the wall in the house. I
plan to wire a separate duplex outlet to each leg of the 220 with all
the neutrals connected to the common neutral. This set of outlets
would obviously be in no way connected to the rest of the house's
wiring system and I would use a different color of outlets. Would this
be up to code?

The whole concept here is to have a convenient way of bringing the
generator power in to the house without having to leave any doors or
windows open to allow an extension cord in. These 4 outlets would be
in a convenient location in the house where I can plug in my critical
electrical items.

Thanks in advance.

Chris


There's a picture of a typical transfer switch set up at:
http://www.justgenerators.co.uk/pages/powertransfer.htm

Unfortunately, it's for the UK, but it give you the idea.

Harbor Freight has a 200-Amp manual transfer switch for $349.99 at:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=42163

Keep in mind, though, that I'm not saying that this one, for example,
would be suitable for your application.

The best places to post your question would probably be alt.home.repair
and alt.energy.homepower.

Another way to get some information would be to do a search on Google
groups on transfer switches:
http://tinyurl.com/24f3vp

  #5   Report Post  
Posted to misc.consumers.house
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5
Default Generator 220v Twistlock - (2) 110v outlets

On 18 Jan 2007 17:48:05 -0800, satellite_chris wrote:
I am planning to install a power inlet box on the side of my house to
accept an L14-30 connection from my generator's twist lock receptacle


From there I would run a small piece of conduit from that input box to
a new electrical box on the opposite side of the wall in the house. I
plan to wire a separate duplex outlet to each leg of the 220 with all
the neutrals connected to the common neutral. This set of outlets
would obviously be in no way connected to the rest of the house's
wiring system and I would use a different color of outlets. Would this


Since the L14-30 is a 30amp system, if you use 20amp outlets on each
leg, you may draw 50% more power thru an outlet than it is designed to
handle. That isn't cool. You really need to bring the 30amp@220v into
a breaker panel and run multiple 15a or 20a circuits from that panel.

be up to code?


Probably not.

sdb
--
Wanted: Omnibook 800 & accessories, cheap, working or not
sdbuse1 on mailhost bigfoot.com


  #6   Report Post  
Posted to misc.consumers.house,alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 25
Default Generator 220v Twistlock - (2) 110v outlets

Good idea on posting to alt.home.repair also.

So that outdoor inlet that I linked to is $53. I saw some L14-30
flanged inlets on ebay for $12 plus $4 s&h
(http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=110079121868). The
trouble I am having is finding a outdoor 3R or better rated box that
would accept a flanged inlet. Does anyone have any suggestions here.
If I can find such a box for even $20, it would still be a savings over
the $53 Gen-Tran.

Also, are my wiring assumptions correct? Common neutral and each
positive leg to each duplex outlet?

Thanks in advance,
Chris

Speedy Jim wrote:
wrote:

satellite_chris wrote:

I am planning to install a power inlet box on the side of my house to
accept an L14-30 connection from my generator's twist lock receptacle
L14-30R. Here is the particular outdoor enclosure that I plan to use:
http://www.gen-tran.com/eshop/10Expa...ductCode=14302

From there I would run a small piece of conduit from that input box to
a new electrical box on the opposite side of the wall in the house. I
plan to wire a separate duplex outlet to each leg of the 220 with all
the neutrals connected to the common neutral. This set of outlets
would obviously be in no way connected to the rest of the house's
wiring system and I would use a different color of outlets. Would this
be up to code?

The whole concept here is to have a convenient way of bringing the
generator power in to the house without having to leave any doors or
windows open to allow an extension cord in. These 4 outlets would be
in a convenient location in the house where I can plug in my critical
electrical items.

Thanks in advance.

Chris



I'm not an electrician and don't know whether you idea would be up to
code or not. One question I would have is what you are going to do with
the ground wire.

What you are planning sounds like a heck of a lot of work and it won't
be all that useful when you get done. I wonder if there's some way that
you could (legally) connect your generator directly to your service
entrance box via some sort of inexpensive, manual transfer switch?



The gennie absolutely must be grounded (to earth) and the
Neutral bonded to Ground. Rather than sticking a pipe in the
gound, consider running an equipment ground to the grounding
point used by the house service entrance.

But your idea to run a conduit into the house for dedicated
receptacles sounds good, since it won't in any way be connected
to the incoming power line.

"inexpensive, manual transfer switch?" They are neither
inexpensive nor simple. Done properly means a lot of
tricky work.

For more opinions on this setup, post over to: alt.home.repair

Jim


  #7   Report Post  
Posted to misc.consumers.house
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,375
Default Generator 220v Twistlock - (2) 110v outlets

In article , sylvan butler wrote:

Since the L14-30 is a 30amp system, if you use 20amp outlets on each
leg, you may draw 50% more power thru an outlet than it is designed to
handle.


How do you figure that?

That isn't cool. You really need to bring the 30amp@220v into
a breaker panel and run multiple 15a or 20a circuits from that panel.

be up to code?


Probably not.


Why not? What article is it in violation of?

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
  #8   Report Post  
Posted to misc.consumers.house
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5
Default Generator 220v Twistlock - (2) 110v outlets

On Sat, 20 Jan 2007 13:42:27 GMT, Doug Miller wrote:
In article , sylvan butler wrote:

Since the L14-30 is a 30amp system, if you use 20amp outlets on each
leg, you may draw 50% more power thru an outlet than it is designed to
handle.


How do you figure that?


What is the amperage rating on an L14-30? 30 amps.

What is the amerage rating on a standard "duplex" outlet? 15 or 20 amps.

be up to code?


Probably not.


Why not? What article is it in violation of?


I'm not going to waste my time trying to find the reference. But if you
think you can safely wire a 20amp outlet into a 30amp circuit, please go
right ahead.

sdb

--
Wanted: Omnibook 800 & accessories, cheap, working or not
sdbuse1 on mailhost bigfoot.com
  #9   Report Post  
Posted to misc.consumers.house,alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 118
Default Generator 220v Twistlock - (2) 110v outlets

satellite_chris wrote:
Good idea on posting to alt.home.repair also.

So that outdoor inlet that I linked to is $53. I saw some L14-30
flanged inlets on ebay for $12 plus $4 s&h
(http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=110079121868). The
trouble I am having is finding a outdoor 3R or better rated box that
would accept a flanged inlet. Does anyone have any suggestions here.
If I can find such a box for even $20, it would still be a savings over
the $53 Gen-Tran.

Also, are my wiring assumptions correct? Common neutral and each
positive leg to each duplex outlet?

Thanks in advance,
Chris

Speedy Jim wrote:
wrote:

satellite_chris wrote:

I am planning to install a power inlet box on the side of my house to
accept an L14-30 connection from my generator's twist lock receptacle
L14-30R. Here is the particular outdoor enclosure that I plan to use:
http://www.gen-tran.com/eshop/10Expa...ductCode=14302

From there I would run a small piece of conduit from that input box to
a new electrical box on the opposite side of the wall in the house. I
plan to wire a separate duplex outlet to each leg of the 220 with all
the neutrals connected to the common neutral. This set of outlets
would obviously be in no way connected to the rest of the house's
wiring system and I would use a different color of outlets. Would this
be up to code?

The whole concept here is to have a convenient way of bringing the
generator power in to the house without having to leave any doors or
windows open to allow an extension cord in. These 4 outlets would be
in a convenient location in the house where I can plug in my critical
electrical items.

Thanks in advance.

Chris

I'm not an electrician and don't know whether you idea would be up to
code or not. One question I would have is what you are going to do with
the ground wire.

What you are planning sounds like a heck of a lot of work and it won't
be all that useful when you get done. I wonder if there's some way that
you could (legally) connect your generator directly to your service
entrance box via some sort of inexpensive, manual transfer switch?


The gennie absolutely must be grounded (to earth) and the
Neutral bonded to Ground. Rather than sticking a pipe in the
gound, consider running an equipment ground to the grounding
point used by the house service entrance.

But your idea to run a conduit into the house for dedicated
receptacles sounds good, since it won't in any way be connected
to the incoming power line.

"inexpensive, manual transfer switch?" They are neither
inexpensive nor simple. Done properly means a lot of
tricky work.

For more opinions on this setup, post over to: alt.home.repair

Jim



Jim
You may be behind the curve here. There is an interlock kit available
from at least two major service equipment manufacturers that interlocks
the main breaker with a two pole breaker that controls power from the
generator. The kit cost around fifty dollars.
--
Tom Horne

"This alternating current stuff is just a fad. It is much too dangerous
for general use." Thomas Alva Edison
  #10   Report Post  
Posted to misc.consumers.house,alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 746
Default Generator 220v Twistlock - (2) 110v outlets

Tom Horne, Electrician wrote:

SNIP

Jim
You may be behind the curve here. There is an interlock kit available
from at least two major service equipment manufacturers that interlocks
the main breaker with a two pole breaker that controls power from the
generator. The kit cost around fifty dollars.



No, I'm well aware of them. The "kit" may be $50,
which gets you some mechanical parts, but that doesn't
address the complexity of the wiring that needs to be done
and it presumes that OP has the "correct" Main breaker in place.

They are a neat idea though and a good solution to the
whole house transfer switch problem if one were building
from scratch.

Jim


  #11   Report Post  
Posted to misc.consumers.house
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,375
Default Generator 220v Twistlock - (2) 110v outlets

In article , sylvan butler wrote:
On Sat, 20 Jan 2007 13:42:27 GMT, Doug Miller wrote:
In article , sylvan butler

wrote:

Since the L14-30 is a 30amp system, if you use 20amp outlets on each
leg, you may draw 50% more power thru an outlet than it is designed to
handle.


How do you figure that?


What is the amperage rating on an L14-30? 30 amps.

What is the amerage rating on a standard "duplex" outlet? 15 or 20 amps.


How do you propose plugging a 30A device into a 15A or 20A receptacle?

be up to code?

Probably not.


Why not? What article is it in violation of?


I'm not going to waste my time trying to find the reference. But if you
think you can safely wire a 20amp outlet into a 30amp circuit, please go
right ahead.


Helloooooo.... When you split a 30A 240V circuit into two 120V circuits, you
do *not* get two 30A 120V circuits. You get two 15A circuits.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
  #12   Report Post  
Posted to misc.consumers.house
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 48
Default Generator 220v Twistlock - (2) 110v outlets

(Doug Miller) writes:

In article , sylvan butler wrote:
On Sat, 20 Jan 2007 13:42:27 GMT, Doug Miller wrote:
In article , sylvan butler

wrote:

Since the L14-30 is a 30amp system, if you use 20amp outlets on each
leg, you may draw 50% more power thru an outlet than it is designed to
handle.

How do you figure that?


What is the amperage rating on an L14-30? 30 amps.

What is the amerage rating on a standard "duplex" outlet? 15 or 20 amps.


How do you propose plugging a 30A device into a 15A or 20A receptacle?


IIRC, his original proposal was to wire this system to several outlets.
Let's see: 15A off the toaster oven in the top plug, 15A off the hair
dryer in the bottom plug, 15A off the table saw in the plug on the other
wall, 15A off the garage door opener running off the extension cord so he
can get his car out of the house.... Do we see anything that adds up to
over 30A here?

...saying nothing about the defective toaster oven that shorts out and
draws 29A all on its own through its 15A plug...

Unless he has something that splits the incoming 30A up between several
15A breakers (which I don't remember him planning to do, but he may
have...) that feed different outlets (e.g. he feeds a panel), then he is
looking for trouble.



be up to code?

Probably not.

Why not? What article is it in violation of?


I'm not going to waste my time trying to find the reference. But if you
think you can safely wire a 20amp outlet into a 30amp circuit, please go
right ahead.


Helloooooo.... When you split a 30A 240V circuit into two 120V circuits, you
do *not* get two 30A 120V circuits. You get two 15A circuits.


30A from one hot to neutral, 30A from other hot to neutral. All current
runs through the hots, with nothing on the neutral, as the load is
balanced. (If it isn't balanced, the neutral carries the _difference_
between the two loads.)

Looks a lot like two 30A 12V circuits to me. Just like the two 15A 120V
circuits I get when I hook up a 15A 240V 3-wire cable to a split
receptacle.

  #13   Report Post  
Posted to misc.consumers.house
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 75
Default Generator 220v Twistlock - (2) 110v outlets


sylvan butler wrote:
On Sat, 20 Jan 2007 13:42:27 GMT, Doug Miller wrote:
In article , sylvan butler wrote:

Since the L14-30 is a 30amp system, if you use 20amp outlets on each
leg, you may draw 50% more power thru an outlet than it is designed to
handle.


How do you figure that?


What is the amperage rating on an L14-30? 30 amps.

What is the amerage rating on a standard "duplex" outlet? 15 or 20 amps.

be up to code?

Probably not.


Why not? What article is it in violation of?


I'm not going to waste my time trying to find the reference. But if you
think you can safely wire a 20amp outlet into a 30amp circuit, please go
right ahead.

sdb

--
Wanted: Omnibook 800 & accessories, cheap, working or not
sdbuse1 on mailhost bigfoot.com


It all depends on the generator. If you go to the Briggs & Stratton web
page and look up the "Wheelhouse 5550W generator, for instance, and
check out the schematic diagram, you'll find that the generator has
built in 20-Amp breakers on each pole of the output, yet it does have a
30-Amp, twist-lock, connector. So, you would be OK with that
combination.
http://tinyurl.com/2xsc9t

The problem, of course, would come if you replaced the generator with a
larger one and used the same wiring.

  #14   Report Post  
Posted to misc.consumers.house,alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 118
Default Generator 220v Twistlock - (2) 110v outlets

Speedy Jim wrote:
Tom Horne, Electrician wrote:

SNIP

Jim
You may be behind the curve here. There is an interlock kit available
from at least two major service equipment manufacturers that
interlocks the main breaker with a two pole breaker that controls
power from the generator. The kit cost around fifty dollars.



No, I'm well aware of them. The "kit" may be $50,
which gets you some mechanical parts, but that doesn't
address the complexity of the wiring that needs to be done
and it presumes that OP has the "correct" Main breaker in place.

They are a neat idea though and a good solution to the
whole house transfer switch problem if one were building
from scratch.

Jim


Jim
The wiring isn't at all complex. A four wire cable is run to a flanged
inlet that is cut into the bottom of any surface mount 4" X 4" X 4"
Weather proof box. The black and the red go to the interlocked two pole
breaker. The white and the green go to there respective buss bars.
About a third of the homes built in the last fifteen years have
compatible main breaker panels.
--
Tom Horne

"This alternating current stuff is just a fad. It is much too dangerous
for general use." Thomas Alva Edison
  #15   Report Post  
Posted to misc.consumers.house
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,375
Default Generator 220v Twistlock - (2) 110v outlets

In article , D Smith wrote:
(Doug Miller) writes:

In article , sylvan butler

wrote:
On Sat, 20 Jan 2007 13:42:27 GMT, Doug Miller wrote:
In article , sylvan

butler
wrote:

Since the L14-30 is a 30amp system, if you use 20amp outlets on each
leg, you may draw 50% more power thru an outlet than it is designed to
handle.

How do you figure that?

What is the amperage rating on an L14-30? 30 amps.

What is the amerage rating on a standard "duplex" outlet? 15 or 20 amps.


How do you propose plugging a 30A device into a 15A or 20A receptacle?


IIRC, his original proposal was to wire this system to several outlets.
Let's see: 15A off the toaster oven in the top plug, 15A off the hair
dryer in the bottom plug, 15A off the table saw in the plug on the other
wall, 15A off the garage door opener running off the extension cord so he
can get his car out of the house.... Do we see anything that adds up to
over 30A here?


Nothing that overloads any of the *receptacles* -- which was the claim I was
objecting to: "... you may draw 50% more power through an outlet that it was
designed to handle" is utter nonsense.

...saying nothing about the defective toaster oven that shorts out and
draws 29A all on its own through its 15A plug...


Of course, it's completely Code-compliant to install a 15A receptacle on a 20A
circuit anyway, and your hypothetical toaster would cause just as big a
problem under that circumstance, too.


Unless he has something that splits the incoming 30A up between several
15A breakers (which I don't remember him planning to do, but he may
have...) that feed different outlets (e.g. he feeds a panel), then he is
looking for trouble.



be up to code?

Probably not.

Why not? What article is it in violation of?

I'm not going to waste my time trying to find the reference. But if you
think you can safely wire a 20amp outlet into a 30amp circuit, please go
right ahead.


Helloooooo.... When you split a 30A 240V circuit into two 120V circuits, you
do *not* get two 30A 120V circuits. You get two 15A circuits.


30A from one hot to neutral, 30A from other hot to neutral. All current
runs through the hots, with nothing on the neutral, as the load is
balanced. (If it isn't balanced, the neutral carries the _difference_
between the two loads.)


Yeah, you're right -- I can't imagine what I was thinking when I wrote that.
It's nuts.

But he still isn't going to overload any individual receptacles, unless he can
figure out a way to force a 30A plug into a 20A receptacle.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.


  #16   Report Post  
Posted to misc.consumers.house
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 48
Default Generator 220v Twistlock - (2) 110v outlets

(Doug Miller) writes:

In article , D Smith wrote:
(Doug Miller) writes:

In article , sylvan butler

wrote:
On Sat, 20 Jan 2007 13:42:27 GMT, Doug Miller wrote:
In article , sylvan

butler
wrote:

Since the L14-30 is a 30amp system, if you use 20amp outlets on each
leg, you may draw 50% more power thru an outlet than it is designed to
handle.

How do you figure that?

What is the amperage rating on an L14-30? 30 amps.

What is the amerage rating on a standard "duplex" outlet? 15 or 20 amps.


How do you propose plugging a 30A device into a 15A or 20A receptacle?


IIRC, his original proposal was to wire this system to several outlets.
Let's see: 15A off the toaster oven in the top plug, 15A off the hair
dryer in the bottom plug, 15A off the table saw in the plug on the other
wall, 15A off the garage door opener running off the extension cord so he
can get his car out of the house.... Do we see anything that adds up to
over 30A here?


Nothing that overloads any of the *receptacles* -- which was the claim I was
objecting to: "... you may draw 50% more power through an outlet that it was
designed to handle" is utter nonsense.


If it's a duplex receptacle, trying to get 15A off each plug will do
it.


...saying nothing about the defective toaster oven that shorts out and
draws 29A all on its own through its 15A plug...


Of course, it's completely Code-compliant to install a 15A receptacle on a 20A
circuit anyway, and your hypothetical toaster would cause just as big a
problem under that circumstance, too.


OK. But if the 15A receptacle is the only 15A-rated part of that, then
it's at the receptacle and the device that the over-current condition will
exist.

Again, not remembering the details of the original post, it sounded
like the individual was going to run several outlets off the generator. If
he is using 14ga wire everywhere, and does NOT have 15A breakers in there
somewhere, he will not be code compliant. Overheated wire inside the wall
is not a good idea.

  #17   Report Post  
Posted to misc.consumers.house
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 25
Default Generator 220v Twistlock - (2) 110v outlets

D Smith,

I plan to run 10ga wire from the L14-30 inlet to two 5-15R duplex
outlets. The length of this run will be about 12-24inches. Does this
configuration sound safe?

Thanks,
Chris




D Smith wrote:

OK. But if the 15A receptacle is the only 15A-rated part of that, then
it's at the receptacle and the device that the over-current condition will
exist.

Again, not remembering the details of the original post, it sounded
like the individual was going to run several outlets off the generator. If
he is using 14ga wire everywhere, and does NOT have 15A breakers in there
somewhere, he will not be code compliant. Overheated wire inside the wall
is not a good idea.


  #18   Report Post  
Posted to misc.consumers.house
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 25
Default Generator 220v Twistlock - (2) 110v outlets

MG Kelson
I have a Troybilt 20345

Here is the manual:
http://www.troybilt-gen-pw.com/data/...0245_0esBw.pdf

and the wiring diagram:
http://www.troybilt-gen-pw.com/data/...30245_0wds.pdf

So would I be Okay with this configuration?

Could I use (2) 20 amp duplex outlets, 1 per leg or should I stick with
15amp?

Thanks,
Chris


wrote:
It all depends on the generator. If you go to the Briggs & Stratton web
page and look up the "Wheelhouse 5550W generator, for instance, and
check out the schematic diagram, you'll find that the generator has
built in 20-Amp breakers on each pole of the output, yet it does have a
30-Amp, twist-lock, connector. So, you would be OK with that
combination.
http://tinyurl.com/2xsc9t

The problem, of course, would come if you replaced the generator with a
larger one and used the same wiring.


  #19   Report Post  
Posted to misc.consumers.house
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 75
Default Generator 220v Twistlock - (2) 110v outlets

satellite_chris wrote:
MG Kelson
I have a Troybilt 20345

Here is the manual:
http://www.troybilt-gen-pw.com/data/...0245_0esBw.pdf

and the wiring diagram:
http://www.troybilt-gen-pw.com/data/...30245_0wds.pdf

So would I be Okay with this configuration?

Could I use (2) 20 amp duplex outlets, 1 per leg or should I stick with
15amp?

Thanks,
Chris


I'm not an electrician, but I would say absolutely you can do that.
Your wiring diagram clearly shows that both legs are protected by a
2-pole, 20-Amp circuit breaker. (See "CB1" in your diagram).

There's no difference, that I can see, between doing that and running
some 20 amp extension cords directly from the generator. I would use 20
amp outlets -- the best ones you can buy. I, personally, don't ever use
cheap outlets. I like the ones where you shove the wire in a hole and
then tighten the screw.

Keep in mind, by the way, I'm not speaking to the issue of building
codes, etc. I'm only talking about current carrying capacity and
circuit breaker protection.

wrote:
It all depends on the generator. If you go to the Briggs & Stratton web
page and look up the "Wheelhouse 5550W generator, for instance, and
check out the schematic diagram, you'll find that the generator has
built in 20-Amp breakers on each pole of the output, yet it does have a
30-Amp, twist-lock, connector. So, you would be OK with that
combination.
http://tinyurl.com/2xsc9t

The problem, of course, would come if you replaced the generator with a
larger one and used the same wiring.


  #20   Report Post  
Posted to misc.consumers.house
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 14
Default Generator 220v Twistlock - (2) 110v outlets

In article . com,
satellite_chris wrote:
MG Kelson
I have a Troybilt 20345

Here is the manual:
http://www.troybilt-gen-pw.com/data/...0245_0esBw.pdf

and the wiring diagram:
http://www.troybilt-gen-pw.com/data/...30245_0wds.pdf

So would I be Okay with this configuration?

Could I use (2) 20 amp duplex outlets, 1 per leg or should I stick with
15amp?

Thanks,
Chris


You might also check this, wrt grounding - looks like your config
would need to be independently grounded (at the generator).

http://www.imsasafety.org/journal/marapr/ma5.htm


wrote:
It all depends on the generator. If you go to the Briggs & Stratton web
page and look up the "Wheelhouse 5550W generator, for instance, and
check out the schematic diagram, you'll find that the generator has
built in 20-Amp breakers on each pole of the output, yet it does have a
30-Amp, twist-lock, connector. So, you would be OK with that
combination.
http://tinyurl.com/2xsc9t

The problem, of course, would come if you replaced the generator with a
larger one and used the same wiring.




--
---------------------------------------------------------------------_------
|Bob Rahe, MIEEE, (RWR50) / ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) |
|Delaware Technical & Community College / - against HTML email X |
|Computer Center, Dover, Delaware / & vCards / \ |
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from
http://www.teranews.com



  #21   Report Post  
Posted to misc.consumers.house
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 25
Default Generator 220v Twistlock - (2) 110v outlets

That is what I was thinking in the back of my head. All the cons that
people mentioned would also apply if I were using a locking 30amp
extension cord set that breaks that down to four female extension cord
ends. I will be mindful of what I plug in to each outlet and do my
best to ensure that there is no overload just as I would if I were
running this type of extension cord set through an open window.

Some folks mentioned balancing the load and that the neutral carries
the difference. There is no perfect way of exactly balancing the load
to say 4 different appliances. No matter how well I divide the 4
appliances amoung the 2 circuits, I am certain it will not be exactly
divided. I don't see how this could be a major issue since the
generator manufacturer must know that home consumers are going to use
their product in such a configuration.

wrote:

There's no difference, that I can see, between doing that and running
some 20 amp extension cords directly from the generator. I would use 20
amp outlets -- the best ones you can buy. I, personally, don't ever use
cheap outlets. I like the ones where you shove the wire in a hole and
then tighten the screw.


  #22   Report Post  
Posted to misc.consumers.house
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 75
Default Generator 220v Twistlock - (2) 110v outlets

satellite_chris wrote:
That is what I was thinking in the back of my head. All the cons that
people mentioned would also apply if I were using a locking 30amp
extension cord set that breaks that down to four female extension cord
ends.


Exactly right.

I will be mindful of what I plug in to each outlet and do my
best to ensure that there is no overload just as I would if I were
running this type of extension cord set through an open window.

Some folks mentioned balancing the load and that the neutral carries
the difference. There is no perfect way of exactly balancing the load
to say 4 different appliances. No matter how well I divide the 4
appliances amoung the 2 circuits, I am certain it will not be exactly
divided. I don't see how this could be a major issue since the
generator manufacturer must know that home consumers are going to use
their product in such a configuration.


My understanding of the problem goes like this:

If you were to use only one pole, for example, at the full 20-amps, the
neutral wire would carry the load just fine. If you were then to plug
into the other pole, any current that you drew would then cancel out on
the neutral wire since the two poles are 180 degrees out of phase. If
you actually used 20-amps on both polls, the current on the neutral
would (theoretically) go to zero. So, in other words, the more current
you use after the initial 20-amps, the less current there will be on
the neutral wire.

In practice, however, some loads are reactive and not purely resistive.
Reactance (XL,XC), produces a phase shift between current and voltage,
so in practice you won't get perfect cancellation. However, it will be
close enough unless you are doing something highly unusual. If you were
to power two 20-amp motors, for instance, there would be a real
possibility that you could overload the neutral. In practice, though,
this is something people don't normally worry about.

wrote:

There's no difference, that I can see, between doing that and running
some 20 amp extension cords directly from the generator. I would use 20
amp outlets -- the best ones you can buy. I, personally, don't ever use
cheap outlets. I like the ones where you shove the wire in a hole and
then tighten the screw.


  #23   Report Post  
Posted to misc.consumers.house
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 48
Default Generator 220v Twistlock - (2) 110v outlets

"satellite_chris" writes:

D Smith,


I plan to run 10ga wire from the L14-30 inlet to two 5-15R duplex
outlets. The length of this run will be about 12-24inches. Does this
configuration sound safe?


Thanks,
Chris



I'm not an electrician, so I'm not exactly qualified to judge.

...but, my impressions are that connecting the 10ga wire to the
receptacle will be difficult, and nothing will be really grounded. From
what I've heard you say, you want permanent outlets and wall wiring, and
this makes it a code issue, even though the generator may be a temporary
connection. You really need to talk to an electrician or inspector - if
you go to your local permit supplier with some plans, you can probably get
the advice of an inspector to tell you if it would pass.

Duplex outlets with what is called an "isolated ground" can be
installed (e.g., they may be present when outlets are fed by an
Uninterruptible Power Supply that completely isolates the circuit from the
mains). I know they exist, but the details are beyond my experience. The
ones I've seen are red in colour.

My sister-in-law's uncle died in a house fire last week, which probably
started as the result of electrical work done earlier in the day (by a
contractor). Electricity is something to be careful with.

  #24   Report Post  
Posted to misc.consumers.house
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 25
Default Generator 220v Twistlock - (2) 110v outlets

D Smith,

Good point on connecting the 10ga wire to the receptacle. How about
using a receptacle with pigtails (although not cheap)?

http://www.onestopbuy.com/5362-L-8082.asp


I know that I need to ground the generator. A grounding rod seems
acceptable but how about connecting the ground on the generator to the
house ground?
A third option would be using isolated ground outlets like you
recommended which I am sure are probably available in a pigtail
configuration as well.

Chris

D Smith wrote:
...but, my impressions are that connecting the 10ga wire to the
receptacle will be difficult, and nothing will be really grounded. From
what I've heard you say, you want permanent outlets and wall wiring, and
this makes it a code issue, even though the generator may be a temporary
connection. You really need to talk to an electrician or inspector - if
you go to your local permit supplier with some plans, you can probably get
the advice of an inspector to tell you if it would pass.

Duplex outlets with what is called an "isolated ground" can be
installed (e.g., they may be present when outlets are fed by an
Uninterruptible Power Supply that completely isolates the circuit from the
mains). I know they exist, but the details are beyond my experience. The
ones I've seen are red in colour.


  #25   Report Post  
Posted to misc.consumers.house
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 48
Default Generator 220v Twistlock - (2) 110v outlets

"satellite_chris" writes:

D Smith,


Good point on connecting the 10ga wire to the receptacle. How about
using a receptacle with pigtails (although not cheap)?


http://www.onestopbuy.com/5362-L-8082.asp



I know that I need to ground the generator. A grounding rod seems
acceptable but how about connecting the ground on the generator to the
house ground?
A third option would be using isolated ground outlets like you
recommended which I am sure are probably available in a pigtail
configuration as well.


Chris



Once again, I am not somone that you can expect to get a definitive
answer from. The true expert is someone who says "I don't know" when he or
she doesn't have an answer. I can speculate along with you, but we're into
an area where I can do nothing more than speculate. And I"ve already
speculated as much as I can.

You seem reluctant to get advice from an electrician or inspector. I
can speculate that there may be two reasons you want to avoid that:

1) cost. An electrician probably won't want to do much for free, but a
good inspector may. It's an inspector's job to make sure things are done
properly. You are going to get a permit and get it inspected, aren't you?
Talking before hand is in the inspector's (and your) interest, as he
doesn't want to make multiple trips after asking for changes.

2) you don't think you'll get an answer you'll like. If that's the
case, you're playing with fire. Seriously. I wasn't making things up when
I told the story of my sister-in-law's uncle dying last week in a house
fire. I just talked to her tonight: they suspect it was the pot light that
was put into the kitchen that day, and the entire house was lost. The
funeral was on Saturday.



  #26   Report Post  
Posted to misc.consumers.house,alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default Generator 220v Twistlock - (2) 110v outlets

On Jan 20, 1:52 pm, "Tom Horne, Electrician"
wrote:
satellite_chris wrote:
Good idea on posting to alt.home.repair also.


So that outdoor inlet that I linked to is $53. I saw some L14-30
flanged inlets on ebay for $12 plus $4 s&h
(http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=110079121868). The
trouble I am having is finding a outdoor 3R or better rated box that
would accept a flanged inlet. Does anyone have any suggestions here.
If I can find such a box for even $20, it would still be a savings over
the $53 Gen-Tran.


Also, are my wiring assumptions correct? Common neutral and each
positive leg to each duplex outlet?


Thanks in advance,
Chris


Speedy Jim wrote:
wrote:


satellite_chris wrote:


I am planning to install a power inlet box on the side of my house to
accept an L14-30 connection from my generator's twist lock receptacle
L14-30R. Here is the particular outdoor enclosure that I plan to use:
http://www.gen-tran.com/eshop/10Expa...ductCode=14302


From there I would run a small piece of conduit from that input box to
a new electrical box on the opposite side of the wall in the house. I
plan to wire a separate duplex outlet to each leg of the 220 with all
the neutrals connected to the common neutral. This set of outlets
would obviously be in no way connected to the rest of the house's
wiring system and I would use a different color of outlets. Would this
be up to code?


The whole concept here is to have a convenient way of bringing the
generator power in to the house without having to leave any doors or
windows open to allow an extension cord in. These 4 outlets would be
in a convenient location in the house where I can plug in my critical
electrical items.


Thanks in advance.


Chris


I'm not an electrician and don't know whether you idea would be up to
code or not. One question I would have is what you are going to do with
the ground wire.


What you are planning sounds like a heck of a lot of work and it won't
be all that useful when you get done. I wonder if there's some way that
you could (legally) connect your generator directly to your service
entrance box via some sort of inexpensive, manual transfer switch?


The gennie absolutely must be grounded (to earth) and the
Neutral bonded to Ground. Rather than sticking a pipe in the
gound, consider running an equipment ground to the grounding
point used by the house service entrance.


But your idea to run a conduit into the house for dedicated
receptacles sounds good, since it won't in any way be connected
to the incoming power line.


"inexpensive, manual transfer switch?" They are neither
inexpensive nor simple. Done properly means a lot of
tricky work.


For more opinions on this setup, post over to: alt.home.repair


Jim


Jim
You may be behind the curve here. There is an interlock kit available
from at least two major service equipment manufacturers that interlocks
the main breaker with a two pole breaker that controls power from the
generator. The kit cost around fifty dollars.
--
Tom Horne

"This alternating current stuff is just a fad. It is much too dangerous
for general use." Thomas Alva Edison- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


If you have a Square D panel, you may be able to use a Q0CGK2
Generator interlock kit. This safely enables you to choose commercial
power or generator power (but not both at the same time) for *all* you
breaker panel circuits. You have to balance the load manually across
the 2 poles, but for a safe, cost effective generator connection
through a separate generator power inlet connector, it works well.
For more info, see http://ecatalog.squared.com/fulldeta...tnumber=QOCGK2

HTH.
KenA


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
220v Well Pump on 110v? Pat & Betsy Parrish Home Repair 4 January 15th 07 07:45 PM
220V for 110V cooktop? PaPaPeng Home Repair 16 November 13th 05 02:05 PM
How can I start a 220V well pump in a blackout if I don't have a 220V generator? Duane Bozarth Home Repair 22 October 20th 05 04:17 AM
110v vs. 220v for welder mongke Metalworking 22 August 14th 04 09:58 AM
Fwd: Dangerous way of getting 220V from 110V outlets jim rozen Metalworking 43 October 30th 03 12:40 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:18 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 DIYbanter.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about DIY & home improvement"