We bought a house in April 2006. Prior to closing we had the home
inspected. The home was inspected March 11th. At that time, the
inspector told us that the roof was in excellent house and probably had
many years left (the house is only 5 years old). Between our
inspection and the time of closing there were hail storms in the area.
(We think they occurred the day AFTER our inspection, March 12th). We
lived in another state and knew nothing about the storms.

Now fast forward several months later. We are enjoying our new home
immensely. We have noticed all of our neighbors getting new roofs.
When we ask why they tell us that there were major hail storms that
caused some damage to their roofs. In a sense of caution we get our
roof inspected and are told that we have hail damage and need a whole
new roof which will cost over $5000. I've talked briefly with our
insurance company about the situation. They say that they probably
won't pay for the damage because we didn't own the home/have insurance
with them at the time of the damage.

Can we go back to the sellers and get their insurance to pay for a new
roof? Is this something that the sellers should have disclosed prior
to closing? Who is responsible for damage that occurs between
inspection and closing?

Thanks.

writes:

We bought a house in April 2006. Prior to closing we had the home
inspected. The home was inspected March 11th. At that time, the
inspector told us that the roof was in excellent house and probably had
many years left (the house is only 5 years old). Between our
inspection and the time of closing there were hail storms in the area.
(We think they occurred the day AFTER our inspection, March 12th). We
lived in another state and knew nothing about the storms.

Now fast forward several months later. We are enjoying our new home
immensely. We have noticed all of our neighbors getting new roofs.
When we ask why they tell us that there were major hail storms that
caused some damage to their roofs. In a sense of caution we get our
roof inspected and are told that we have hail damage and need a whole
new roof which will cost over $5000. I've talked briefly with our
insurance company about the situation. They say that they probably
won't pay for the damage because we didn't own the home/have insurance
with them at the time of the damage.

Can we go back to the sellers and get their insurance to pay for a new
roof? Is this something that the sellers should have disclosed prior
to closing? Who is responsible for damage that occurs between
inspection and closing?

Wow... interesting situation. Sorry to hear it!

Yeah, I'd definitely cross your insurance company off the list. If
the hail happened before they covered the house, they aren't on the
hook.

You may very well be screwed for not having noticed the hail before
closing. But of course, how the hell would you know to ask. That's a
tough situation.

The trouble with going back at the sellers is that the transaction
closed, of course. Since they're no longer current customers of that
insurance company, that company won't have a lot of motivation to pay
a claim. And if the sellers do happen to be working with that
company, they won't be excited to file a claim and possibly impact
their rates at their new place. I suppose litigation is a
possibility, but to be successful I think you might have to somehow
prove that they knew the hail occurred but didn't notify anyone. And
depending on the contract wording, I'm not sure they'd even be legally
required to notify if they did know it happened.

****ty situation. It has to have happened to someone else before
though--I'm curious if you have any recourse, or just have a $5000
case of unluckiness on your hands.

You're in good company there though. I'm looking at a furnace
replacement on a furnace that inspected fine 6 months again. *sigh*

Best Regards,
--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/

On 13 Sep 2006 08:17:15 -0700, wrote:
We bought a house in April 2006. Prior to closing we had the home
inspected. The home was inspected March 11th. At that time, the
inspector told us that the roof was in excellent house and probably had
many years left (the house is only 5 years old). Between our
inspection and the time of closing there were hail storms in the area.
(We think they occurred the day AFTER our inspection, March 12th). We
lived in another state and knew nothing about the storms.

Now fast forward several months later. We are enjoying our new home
immensely. We have noticed all of our neighbors getting new roofs.
When we ask why they tell us that there were major hail storms that
caused some damage to their roofs. In a sense of caution we get our
roof inspected and are told that we have hail damage and need a whole
new roof which will cost over $5000. I've talked briefly with our
insurance company about the situation. They say that they probably
won't pay for the damage because we didn't own the home/have insurance
with them at the time of the damage.

Can we go back to the sellers and get their insurance to pay for a new
roof? Is this something that the sellers should have disclosed prior
to closing? Who is responsible for damage that occurs between
inspection and closing?


How many inspections did you get?

After any hailstorm, roofing contractors descend on neighborhoods
like flies, attracted by the prospect of easy money, since most people
will have insurance that will cover a roof replacement. So, of course,
your "roof will need to be replaced."

Try getting some other evaluations, state your lack of insurance coverage
situation right up front, and then see what they say. Of course, you'll
still probably be told that the roof needs to be replaced, but it
would be interesting to see a comparison.

- Rich

--
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.

The sellers should cover the damage. If their insurance won't pay, that
is not your problem. You bought the home in good faith in a certain
condition. You can expect 'reasonable' wear and tear between the time of
purchase and the point of closing, but the sellers are responsible for any
major changes in condition.

If the condition is such that a professionally inspected roof went from
peachy keen to burnt toast, then I can't imagine any judge in any small
claims court not awarding you the cost of a new roof. Judge Judy comes to
mind ...

We get hail here in Ontario, too, along with vast extremes in temperature
and I have never, ever heard of a perfectly good roof being damaged by
hail. Wind can occasionally cause some damage, but the hail would have to
be the size of 'seen on CNN' to do that kind of damage.

I hope that you initially had your roof inspected by a professional home
inspector, and I hope that's who you had do the post-hail inspection. Two
inspections from the same person would have more impact if you have to sue.



user ) writes:
On 13 Sep 2006 08:17:15 -0700, wrote:
We bought a house in April 2006. Prior to closing we had the home
inspected. The home was inspected March 11th. At that time, the
inspector told us that the roof was in excellent house and probably had
many years left (the house is only 5 years old). Between our
inspection and the time of closing there were hail storms in the area.
(We think they occurred the day AFTER our inspection, March 12th). We
lived in another state and knew nothing about the storms.

Now fast forward several months later. We are enjoying our new home
immensely. We have noticed all of our neighbors getting new roofs.
When we ask why they tell us that there were major hail storms that
caused some damage to their roofs. In a sense of caution we get our
roof inspected and are told that we have hail damage and need a whole
new roof which will cost over $5000. I've talked briefly with our
insurance company about the situation. They say that they probably
won't pay for the damage because we didn't own the home/have insurance
with them at the time of the damage.

Can we go back to the sellers and get their insurance to pay for a new
roof? Is this something that the sellers should have disclosed prior
to closing? Who is responsible for damage that occurs between
inspection and closing?


How many inspections did you get?

After any hailstorm, roofing contractors descend on neighborhoods
like flies, attracted by the prospect of easy money, since most people
will have insurance that will cover a roof replacement. So, of course,
your "roof will need to be replaced."

Try getting some other evaluations, state your lack of insurance coverage
situation right up front, and then see what they say. Of course, you'll
still probably be told that the roof needs to be replaced, but it
would be interesting to see a comparison.

- Rich

--
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.

(Natalie Munro) writes:
The sellers should cover the damage. If their insurance won't pay, that
is not your problem. You bought the home in good faith in a certain
condition. You can expect 'reasonable' wear and tear between the time of
purchase and the point of closing, but the sellers are responsible for any
major changes in condition.

If the condition is such that a professionally inspected roof went from
peachy keen to burnt toast, then I can't imagine any judge in any small
claims court not awarding you the cost of a new roof. Judge Judy comes to
mind ...

While you might be right that the seller "should" have disclosed that
the roof might have been damaged by the hail or "should" have filed a
claim with their insurance carrier before the completion of the sale,
it is rather more questionable that they had any legal obligation to
do either of those things or that they are obligated to cover the cost
of any necessary roof repairs now.

Some states require the seller to disclose any information about the
house which might influence the buyer's willingness to complete a
purchase. Other states require only that the seller disclose
information explicitly requested by the buyer. Since the OP did not
say what state the house is in, we have no way of knowing what law
would be applicable where he is.

"Any judge in any small claims court" is bound to follow the law, not
to follow what he thinks people "should" do. If the law in the OP's
state does not require the seller to disclose information not requested
by the buyer, and if the OP did not explicitly ask the seller before
completing the purchase, "By the way, to your knowledge, has the
condition of the house changed in any significant way since we
inspected it?" then the seller was under no obligation to disclose
anything, and for a judge to rule in the buyer's favor would be
contrary to the law.

My advice to the OP would be to find a good lawyer (ask coworkers and
neighbors for reference) with whom to discuss the situation. Most
lawyers will give you an initial consultation for free, so you can
outline the facts and they can tell you whether it's worth paying them
to pursue the matter. Lay out the situation to a lawyer, and he/she
will be able to tell you whether you can pursue action against the
sellers or their insurance company.

--
Help stop the genocide in Darfur!
http://www.genocideintervention.net/

Can you prove the sellers knew of severe roof damage? If not youve got
nothing. Sellers can say "yes it hailed but we didnt notice any
damage" If you can track down insurance claim or estimates or
inspection report you might prove they failed to disclose a serious
issue. Otherwise youre out of steam there.


Jonathan Kamens wrote:
(Natalie Munro) writes:
The sellers should cover the damage. If their insurance won't pay, that
is not your problem. You bought the home in good faith in a certain
condition. You can expect 'reasonable' wear and tear between the time of
purchase and the point of closing, but the sellers are responsible for any
major changes in condition.

If the condition is such that a professionally inspected roof went from
peachy keen to burnt toast, then I can't imagine any judge in any small
claims court not awarding you the cost of a new roof. Judge Judy comes to
mind ...

While you might be right that the seller "should" have disclosed that
the roof might have been damaged by the hail or "should" have filed a
claim with their insurance carrier before the completion of the sale,
it is rather more questionable that they had any legal obligation to
do either of those things or that they are obligated to cover the cost
of any necessary roof repairs now.

Some states require the seller to disclose any information about the
house which might influence the buyer's willingness to complete a
purchase. Other states require only that the seller disclose
information explicitly requested by the buyer. Since the OP did not
say what state the house is in, we have no way of knowing what law
would be applicable where he is.

"Any judge in any small claims court" is bound to follow the law, not
to follow what he thinks people "should" do. If the law in the OP's
state does not require the seller to disclose information not requested
by the buyer, and if the OP did not explicitly ask the seller before
completing the purchase, "By the way, to your knowledge, has the
condition of the house changed in any significant way since we
inspected it?" then the seller was under no obligation to disclose
anything, and for a judge to rule in the buyer's favor would be
contrary to the law.

My advice to the OP would be to find a good lawyer (ask coworkers and
neighbors for reference) with whom to discuss the situation. Most
lawyers will give you an initial consultation for free, so you can
outline the facts and they can tell you whether it's worth paying them
to pursue the matter. Lay out the situation to a lawyer, and he/she
will be able to tell you whether you can pursue action against the
sellers or their insurance company.

--
Help stop the genocide in Darfur!
http://www.genocideintervention.net/

On 13 Sep 2006 17:03:19 GMT, someone wrote:

The sellers should cover the damage.

Don't give legal advice that you are not.qualified to give.

I can just imagine the Buyers calling up the Sellers and demanding
payment because someone on the internet said so.


Reply to NG only - this e.mail address goes to a kill file.

Youre $%^t out of luck. You closed on the house. It's yours now. Had
you known about the damage prior to closing you coul have gotten it
fixed or backed out of deal.
Once you close too bad. Seller's lawyer will ask "Did you do final
walkthrough?" You say "Yes" . Seller's attorney says "Why wasnt it
brought up then and dismisses you" Any court will do the same. Get a
new roof

wrote:
We bought a house in April 2006. Prior to closing we had the home
inspected. The home was inspected March 11th. At that time, the
inspector told us that the roof was in excellent house and probably had
many years left (the house is only 5 years old). Between our
inspection and the time of closing there were hail storms in the area.
(We think they occurred the day AFTER our inspection, March 12th). We
lived in another state and knew nothing about the storms.

Now fast forward several months later. We are enjoying our new home
immensely. We have noticed all of our neighbors getting new roofs.
When we ask why they tell us that there were major hail storms that
caused some damage to their roofs. In a sense of caution we get our
roof inspected and are told that we have hail damage and need a whole
new roof which will cost over $5000. I've talked briefly with our
insurance company about the situation. They say that they probably
won't pay for the damage because we didn't own the home/have insurance
with them at the time of the damage.

Can we go back to the sellers and get their insurance to pay for a new
roof? Is this something that the sellers should have disclosed prior
to closing? Who is responsible for damage that occurs between
inspection and closing?

Thanks.

On 13 Sep 2006 08:17:15 -0700, someone wrote:

Now fast forward several months later. We are enjoying our new home
immensely. We have noticed all of our neighbors getting new roofs.

You were enjoying your new house IMMENSELY. Until you see your
neighbors getting something you're not. And NOW you are retroactively
dis-satisfied. There didn't seem to be anything noticeably wrong with
your roof until you saw your neighbors getting new roofs. The
contractor who 'inspected' your roof probably thinks he will get an
insurance job out of it.



Reply to NG only - this e.mail address goes to a kill file.

I think the big question you have to ask is whether the seller was aware of
the damage to the roof? I would guess the law varries from state to state on
this, but ethically I think they would be obligated to address this before
concluding the sale if they knew about the damage. If they strongly
suspected damage after the storm one might argue they had an ethical
obligation to look into it. However, if the damage wasn't obvious I'm not
sure if they had an ethical obligation to look into it or tell you anything.

That aside, have you even brought up the matter with the former owner?
Without involving lawers, etc, they may simply be people of good moral
character who are willing to accept responsibility for this. If they hedge,
a compromise might be in order - perhaps an offer to split or cover
deductible. If they were insured, it really doesn't matter if they are
covered by the same policy any longer or not - all that matters is whether
they were covered at the time of the incident. If they're good people and
you handle it courtesey and tact, they might just work with you. That is
infinitely preferable to involving lawyers - something that would add
another couple of thousand to the bill for one or both of you at a minimum.


wrote in message
oups.com...
We bought a house in April 2006. Prior to closing we had the home
inspected. The home was inspected March 11th. At that time, the
inspector told us that the roof was in excellent house and probably had
many years left (the house is only 5 years old). Between our
inspection and the time of closing there were hail storms in the area.
(We think they occurred the day AFTER our inspection, March 12th). We
lived in another state and knew nothing about the storms.

Now fast forward several months later. We are enjoying our new home
immensely. We have noticed all of our neighbors getting new roofs.
When we ask why they tell us that there were major hail storms that
caused some damage to their roofs. In a sense of caution we get our
roof inspected and are told that we have hail damage and need a whole
new roof which will cost over $5000. I've talked briefly with our
insurance company about the situation. They say that they probably
won't pay for the damage because we didn't own the home/have insurance
with them at the time of the damage.

Can we go back to the sellers and get their insurance to pay for a new
roof? Is this something that the sellers should have disclosed prior
to closing? Who is responsible for damage that occurs between
inspection and closing?

Thanks.

S C Holt wrote:
I think the big question you have to ask is whether the seller was aware of
the damage to the roof?

Actually, I think the REAL question is whether there really is any
damage, or at least if any damage justifies a new roof. This seems to
be a scam to me. The other day it hailed where we live (largest was
quarter sized) and right away several neighbors were talking about
getting their roofs replaced. WTF?

In article om, WDS says...


S C Holt wrote:
I think the big question you have to ask is whether the seller was aware of
the damage to the roof?

Actually, I think the REAL question is whether there really is any
damage, or at least if any damage justifies a new roof. This seems to
be a scam to me. The other day it hailed where we live (largest was
quarter sized) and right away several neighbors were talking about
getting their roofs replaced. WTF?


Yep. Seen it.

I'd get another estimate and let the roofer know it's not an insurance job
(although you want to maintain your home and no problem paying), and go up there
with him, and have him tell you exactly what the damage is, and why it requires
a new roof. Or not. Neighbors getting new roofs does not firm evidence of
actual hail damage make. People practically salivate over hail because of this
sort of thing. And it is darn likely the seller can honestly say they have no
knowledge of damage.

Furthermore, doing things involving lawyers can easily eat up the few thou you'd
put into a new roof anyway.

Banty

If there was in fact damage due to hail in the period before closing,
it is clear that the seller should have a claim against their insurance
company for the damage. The prevailing concept here is that the seller
has an obligation to deliver the home in the condition it was in when
the contract was signed. They should have made a claim at the time
of the damage with their insurance company. And I would say that given
this was roof damage, it's reasonable that the buyer would not know
about the new damage during a walk through.

I would contact the seller and discuss it. Ask if they knew there was
a major hail storm, with many homes in the area damaged. I'd also
find out if your state is one in which it's legal to record phone
conversations with only one party consenting. If it is, record all
calls you make to the seller. Tell them they should put in a claim to
their insurance company. If they won't, take them to small claims.
Bring as much documentation as possible, ie, neighbors damage/insurance
claim reports, photos of the damage, inspectors report, repair
estimates, weather reports, stories from the newspaper covering the
hail storm, etc. IMO, you will have an excellent chance of winning..

I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the seller did make a claim
with their insurance company and then just pocketed the money.
Hopefully they are still in the area, or else you are screwed.

Before you think about court you better have some real evidence the
sellers knew of damage. Neighbors can replace roofs, tiles, furnaces,
spoon rests etc and that doesnt mean your house has a problem. A
little hail doesnt matter. Some people are scared when an "expert"
comes to their door and says "you need this" It's over.The house is
yours now, it's your problem. If people were successful at getting
everything fixed after closing who would sell knowing the buyer could
come back and ask for renovations. I wish I could get a new roof ,
furnace, windows, bathroom etc from the seller of my home. I doubt it
would work though. If you are concerned get the roof fixed.Otherwise
just let it go. If the roof was in that bad shape you should have
noticed on walk through

wrote:
If there was in fact damage due to hail in the period before closing,
it is clear that the seller should have a claim against their insurance
company for the damage. The prevailing concept here is that the seller
has an obligation to deliver the home in the condition it was in when
the contract was signed. They should have made a claim at the time
of the damage with their insurance company. And I would say that given
this was roof damage, it's reasonable that the buyer would not know
about the new damage during a walk through.

I would contact the seller and discuss it. Ask if they knew there was
a major hail storm, with many homes in the area damaged. I'd also
find out if your state is one in which it's legal to record phone
conversations with only one party consenting. If it is, record all
calls you make to the seller. Tell them they should put in a claim to
their insurance company. If they won't, take them to small claims.
Bring as much documentation as possible, ie, neighbors damage/insurance
claim reports, photos of the damage, inspectors report, repair
estimates, weather reports, stories from the newspaper covering the
hail storm, etc. IMO, you will have an excellent chance of winning..

I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the seller did make a claim
with their insurance company and then just pocketed the money.
Hopefully they are still in the area, or else you are screwed.

In article .com,
wrote:

In a sense of caution we get our
roof inspected and are told that we have hail damage and need a whole
new roof which will cost over $5000.

Inspected by a roofing contractor?

Have you SEEN this damage?