Home Ownership (misc.consumers.house)

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  #1   Report Post  
Alex
 
Posts: n/a
Default Security System and self monitoring

Hi everyone,

Me and my wife are wanting to put an alarm system in our home, but we
live in a fairly good neighborhood, and though none of my neighbors
(some living there for 30+ years) know of any problems in the
neighborhood or surrounding streets, we'd feel more comfortable with
some sort of alarm system.

I know Brinks and ADT have remote monitoring, but I'd like something I
can monitor myself without monthly fee's. Ideally I'd love to have
something with window and door scensors plus glass break alarms, but
the perks I'd love to get are something that'll connect to my computer
and either send a page to me or better yet just call 911 with an
automatic message asking for help. All Brinks and ADT do is this,
isn't it??? Why pay them if a system can be setup to do this for me.

Thanks for any suggestions, but being a rookie in this field I'm not
sure what's available out there. I guess for me simply having an alarm
that sets off an alarm when the circuit around the doors and windows
breaks would work, but the perks of notification would be nice

Thanks for any ideas or thoughts.

Sam Alex

  #2   Report Post  
R.H.Campbell
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Sir, I won't comment on the idea of "self monitoring" other than to refer
you to a page that might or might not provide some useful thoughts on the
matter. If you require a system that is non monitored, you likely will have
to search out a local company that does this, or do it yourself.

http://www3.sympatico.ca/rh.campbell/monitori.htm

R.H.Campbell
Home Security Metal Products
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
www.homemetal.com

"Alex" wrote in message
ps.com...
Hi everyone,

Me and my wife are wanting to put an alarm system in our home, but we
live in a fairly good neighborhood, and though none of my neighbors
(some living there for 30+ years) know of any problems in the
neighborhood or surrounding streets, we'd feel more comfortable with
some sort of alarm system.

I know Brinks and ADT have remote monitoring, but I'd like something I
can monitor myself without monthly fee's. Ideally I'd love to have
something with window and door scensors plus glass break alarms, but
the perks I'd love to get are something that'll connect to my computer
and either send a page to me or better yet just call 911 with an
automatic message asking for help. All Brinks and ADT do is this,
isn't it??? Why pay them if a system can be setup to do this for me.

Thanks for any suggestions, but being a rookie in this field I'm not
sure what's available out there. I guess for me simply having an alarm
that sets off an alarm when the circuit around the doors and windows
breaks would work, but the perks of notification would be nice

Thanks for any ideas or thoughts.

Sam Alex



  #3   Report Post  
Crash Gordon
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Most municipalities forbid dialers with voice messages to be transmitted to
police/fire/911 etc. If you want dispatch you'll have to go through
monitoring station.

You can program most alarms to page you on your pager, though this has it's
quirks. You can also purchase a voice module that will transmit message to
your cell phone...of course if it doesnt get through to your cell you wont
get the message. There are a lot of drawbacks to "self-monitoring".

No...Brinks, ADT etc, do not send voice messages to 911. In my area our
central stations are given special phone numbers to dial into for
dispatch...not 911, and not end-user numbers.

Do you intend to install this yourself, or try to find an installing
company that will install a "local" alarm system? You may have trouble if
the latter is true.

hth

"Alex" wrote in message
ps.com...
Hi everyone,

Me and my wife are wanting to put an alarm system in our home, but we
live in a fairly good neighborhood, and though none of my neighbors
(some living there for 30+ years) know of any problems in the
neighborhood or surrounding streets, we'd feel more comfortable with
some sort of alarm system.

I know Brinks and ADT have remote monitoring, but I'd like something I
can monitor myself without monthly fee's. Ideally I'd love to have
something with window and door scensors plus glass break alarms, but
the perks I'd love to get are something that'll connect to my computer
and either send a page to me or better yet just call 911 with an
automatic message asking for help. All Brinks and ADT do is this,
isn't it??? Why pay them if a system can be setup to do this for me.

Thanks for any suggestions, but being a rookie in this field I'm not
sure what's available out there. I guess for me simply having an alarm
that sets off an alarm when the circuit around the doors and windows
breaks would work, but the perks of notification would be nice

Thanks for any ideas or thoughts.

Sam Alex




  #4   Report Post  
Travis Jordan
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Alex wrote:
I know Brinks and ADT have remote monitoring, but I'd like something I
can monitor myself without monthly fee's. Ideally I'd love to have
something with window and door scensors plus glass break alarms, but
the perks I'd love to get are something that'll connect to my computer
and either send a page to me or better yet just call 911 with an
automatic message asking for help. All Brinks and ADT do is this,
isn't it??? Why pay them if a system can be setup to do this for me.


In my community the 911 system will not accept automated calls for
response. There has to be a person on the other end of the line. If
you try using an automated system you may get a response, but you will
also get a fine.

The central station monitoring companies use a 'call list', and if they
don't get a response from the number(s) on the call list then they call
the police (or fire, or whatever).

There are self-monitored systems available. Try Google.


  #5   Report Post  
Crash Gordon
 
Posts: n/a
Default

RH,

What does this mean: "14.95 monthly plus GST ($16)" ?
Is GST a tax?



"R.H.Campbell" wrote in message
...
Sir, I won't comment on the idea of "self monitoring" other than to refer
you to a page that might or might not provide some useful thoughts on the
matter. If you require a system that is non monitored, you likely will
have to search out a local company that does this, or do it yourself.

http://www3.sympatico.ca/rh.campbell/monitori.htm

R.H.Campbell
Home Security Metal Products
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
www.homemetal.com

"Alex" wrote in message
ps.com...
Hi everyone,

Me and my wife are wanting to put an alarm system in our home, but we
live in a fairly good neighborhood, and though none of my neighbors
(some living there for 30+ years) know of any problems in the
neighborhood or surrounding streets, we'd feel more comfortable with
some sort of alarm system.

I know Brinks and ADT have remote monitoring, but I'd like something I
can monitor myself without monthly fee's. Ideally I'd love to have
something with window and door scensors plus glass break alarms, but
the perks I'd love to get are something that'll connect to my computer
and either send a page to me or better yet just call 911 with an
automatic message asking for help. All Brinks and ADT do is this,
isn't it??? Why pay them if a system can be setup to do this for me.

Thanks for any suggestions, but being a rookie in this field I'm not
sure what's available out there. I guess for me simply having an alarm
that sets off an alarm when the circuit around the doors and windows
breaks would work, but the perks of notification would be nice

Thanks for any ideas or thoughts.

Sam Alex








  #6   Report Post  
R.H.Campbell
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Yeah, its a General Sales Tax of 7% that all Canadians are screwed with and
applies to pretty much everything we buy....on top of a myriad of other
taxes, which makes us one of the most heavily taxed countries in the
world....(
So if we initially pay something for a product, then we pay a Provincial tax
of 8% on it, then the GST is applied to both the original item AND the PST,
so we are taxed on tax. Monitoring however, doesn't require PST.

RHC


"Crash Gordon" wrote in message
...
RH,

What does this mean: "14.95 monthly plus GST ($16)" ?
Is GST a tax?



"R.H.Campbell" wrote in message
...
Sir, I won't comment on the idea of "self monitoring" other than to refer
you to a page that might or might not provide some useful thoughts on the
matter. If you require a system that is non monitored, you likely will
have to search out a local company that does this, or do it yourself.

http://www3.sympatico.ca/rh.campbell/monitori.htm

R.H.Campbell
Home Security Metal Products
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
www.homemetal.com

"Alex" wrote in message
ps.com...
Hi everyone,

Me and my wife are wanting to put an alarm system in our home, but we
live in a fairly good neighborhood, and though none of my neighbors
(some living there for 30+ years) know of any problems in the
neighborhood or surrounding streets, we'd feel more comfortable with
some sort of alarm system.

I know Brinks and ADT have remote monitoring, but I'd like something I
can monitor myself without monthly fee's. Ideally I'd love to have
something with window and door scensors plus glass break alarms, but
the perks I'd love to get are something that'll connect to my computer
and either send a page to me or better yet just call 911 with an
automatic message asking for help. All Brinks and ADT do is this,
isn't it??? Why pay them if a system can be setup to do this for me.

Thanks for any suggestions, but being a rookie in this field I'm not
sure what's available out there. I guess for me simply having an alarm
that sets off an alarm when the circuit around the doors and windows
breaks would work, but the perks of notification would be nice

Thanks for any ideas or thoughts.

Sam Alex








  #7   Report Post  
Crash Gordon
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Almost as messy as here.

When I sell a system I have to charge State & City sales tax - state is
same, but each city is different.

When I sell monitoring I have to charge telecommunications tax, but only by
city.

Now...here's the kicker...I operate in 10+ cities and all have different
sales/telecommunications tax....pain in the butt...every 19th of the month
it's a mad scramble to calculate all this crap.

Oh yeah, and some cities (the smaller ones) have their tax collected by the
state (they all should it would simplify stuff for us).


"R.H.Campbell" wrote in message
...
Yeah, its a General Sales Tax of 7% that all Canadians are screwed with
and applies to pretty much everything we buy....on top of a myriad of
other taxes, which makes us one of the most heavily taxed countries in the
world....(
So if we initially pay something for a product, then we pay a Provincial
tax of 8% on it, then the GST is applied to both the original item AND the
PST, so we are taxed on tax. Monitoring however, doesn't require PST.

RHC


"Crash Gordon" wrote in message
...
RH,

What does this mean: "14.95 monthly plus GST ($16)" ?
Is GST a tax?



"R.H.Campbell" wrote in message
...
Sir, I won't comment on the idea of "self monitoring" other than to
refer you to a page that might or might not provide some useful thoughts
on the matter. If you require a system that is non monitored, you likely
will have to search out a local company that does this, or do it
yourself.

http://www3.sympatico.ca/rh.campbell/monitori.htm

R.H.Campbell
Home Security Metal Products
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
www.homemetal.com

"Alex" wrote in message
ps.com...
Hi everyone,

Me and my wife are wanting to put an alarm system in our home, but we
live in a fairly good neighborhood, and though none of my neighbors
(some living there for 30+ years) know of any problems in the
neighborhood or surrounding streets, we'd feel more comfortable with
some sort of alarm system.

I know Brinks and ADT have remote monitoring, but I'd like something I
can monitor myself without monthly fee's. Ideally I'd love to have
something with window and door scensors plus glass break alarms, but
the perks I'd love to get are something that'll connect to my computer
and either send a page to me or better yet just call 911 with an
automatic message asking for help. All Brinks and ADT do is this,
isn't it??? Why pay them if a system can be setup to do this for me.

Thanks for any suggestions, but being a rookie in this field I'm not
sure what's available out there. I guess for me simply having an alarm
that sets off an alarm when the circuit around the doors and windows
breaks would work, but the perks of notification would be nice

Thanks for any ideas or thoughts.

Sam Alex










  #8   Report Post  
Percival P. Cassidy
 
Posts: n/a
Default

So . . . you can pay for your health care (and other benefits) a little
bit at a time (in GST) or (as in the USA) you can pay for it in
insurance premiums, co-pays, etc. running to many thousands of dollars a
year (perhaps even thousands a month: we're paying well over $1000 a
month, and I don't doubt that some people are paying even more).

Perce


On 09/09/05 11:58 am R.H.Campbell tossed the following ingredients into
the ever-growing pot of cybersoup:

Yeah, its a General Sales Tax of 7% that all Canadians are screwed with and
applies to pretty much everything we buy....on top of a myriad of other
taxes, which makes us one of the most heavily taxed countries in the
world....(
So if we initially pay something for a product, then we pay a Provincial tax
of 8% on it, then the GST is applied to both the original item AND the PST,
so we are taxed on tax. Monitoring however, doesn't require PST.

  #9   Report Post  
Travis Jordan
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Crash Gordon wrote:
When I sell monitoring I have to charge telecommunications tax, but
only by city.


Do you have to charge "telecommunications tax" when the monitoring link
is internet only or VoIP?


  #10   Report Post  
Crash Gordon
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Dunno. I won't do VOIP, and I don't have interenet monitoring set up yet -
should be any day now.

That's an interesting question though. I wonder if VOIP users are paying
tele taxes presently? I would think so..but dunno.




"Travis Jordan" wrote in message
m...
Crash Gordon wrote:
When I sell monitoring I have to charge telecommunications tax, but
only by city.


Do you have to charge "telecommunications tax" when the monitoring link
is internet only or VoIP?







  #11   Report Post  
R.H.Campbell
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I doubt very much of the GST goes towards our health care system. If it did,
we wouldn't have the problems we do with the system. Instead they p*ss it
away on lots of "feel good" programs that only serve to buy them votes in
the next election. The GST and the revenue collected from road tax go into
that endless pot of taxpayers money that forms the trough that our
parliamentary pigs feed on...

RHC

"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote in message
...
So . . . you can pay for your health care (and other benefits) a little
bit at a time (in GST) or (as in the USA) you can pay for it in insurance
premiums, co-pays, etc. running to many thousands of dollars a year
(perhaps even thousands a month: we're paying well over $1000 a month, and
I don't doubt that some people are paying even more).

Perce


On 09/09/05 11:58 am R.H.Campbell tossed the following ingredients into
the ever-growing pot of cybersoup:

Yeah, its a General Sales Tax of 7% that all Canadians are screwed with
and applies to pretty much everything we buy....on top of a myriad of
other taxes, which makes us one of the most heavily taxed countries in
the world....(
So if we initially pay something for a product, then we pay a Provincial
tax of 8% on it, then the GST is applied to both the original item AND
the PST, so we are taxed on tax. Monitoring however, doesn't require PST.



  #12   Report Post  
Travis Jordan
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Crash Gordon wrote:
That's an interesting question though. I wonder if VOIP users are
paying tele taxes presently? I would think so..but dunno.


Nope, they're not. The FCC said last year and in subsequent rulings
that VoIP is an "unregulated information service" and not subject to
traditional state public utility control or oversight.



  #13   Report Post  
Russell Brill
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Crash Gordon" wrote in message
...
Most municipalities forbid dialers with voice messages to be transmitted
to police/fire/911 etc. If you want dispatch you'll have to go through
monitoring station.

Crash, you left out the part about the big fat fine a homeowner will get if
their system automatically dials 911...

You can program most alarms to page you on your pager, though this has
it's quirks. You can also purchase a voice module that will transmit
message to your cell phone...of course if it doesnt get through to your
cell you wont get the message. There are a lot of drawbacks to
"self-monitoring".

No...Brinks, ADT etc, do not send voice messages to 911. In my area our
central stations are given special phone numbers to dial into for
dispatch...not 911, and not end-user numbers.

Do you intend to install this yourself, or try to find an installing
company that will install a "local" alarm system? You may have trouble if
the latter is true.

hth

"Alex" wrote in message
ps.com...
Hi everyone,

Me and my wife are wanting to put an alarm system in our home, but we
live in a fairly good neighborhood, and though none of my neighbors
(some living there for 30+ years) know of any problems in the
neighborhood or surrounding streets, we'd feel more comfortable with
some sort of alarm system.

I know Brinks and ADT have remote monitoring, but I'd like something I
can monitor myself without monthly fee's. Ideally I'd love to have
something with window and door scensors plus glass break alarms, but
the perks I'd love to get are something that'll connect to my computer
and either send a page to me or better yet just call 911 with an
automatic message asking for help. All Brinks and ADT do is this,
isn't it??? Why pay them if a system can be setup to do this for me.

Thanks for any suggestions, but being a rookie in this field I'm not
sure what's available out there. I guess for me simply having an alarm
that sets off an alarm when the circuit around the doors and windows
breaks would work, but the perks of notification would be nice

Thanks for any ideas or thoughts.

Sam Alex






  #14   Report Post  
Jen...tel
 
Posts: n/a
Default

That's right for now, voip don't pay into the systems they are using.
That's changing. PSTN is now open to voip but they have to pay like
everyone else. So those low voip rates are going up if you want 9-1-1
service. Add another buck or two a month. Number portability has
become a issue when people find out they can port to voip but voip
didn't have to port to another service. People complain and now voip
will have to pay and provide for the service, add another dollar or 2 a
month.
Connectivity was favorable to voip since they could lease local lines
at a cost lower from what the phone company paid to maintain them.
That's gone with the last FCC ruling. Voip must pay market rates. Add
another dollar or 2 to the monthly bill.
Let's not forget that voip has ZERO standards that they have to meet.
If state and federal agencies get too many complaints they will want to
cover their cost and that means voip paying just like the phone
company.
Voip is cheap 'cause it's not phone service, anyone who thinks it is or
that it will conquer the world is full of it. Voip is getting a second
look now that people have been nearly killed using it and because it's
not "REAL" phone service, and rates are going up as they start paying
their way and the free rides end.

  #15   Report Post  
Crash Gordon
 
Posts: n/a
Default

The client only saves on long distance right? You still have to have a
network connection and pay for that right?



"Jen...tel" wrote in message
oups.com...
That's right for now, voip don't pay into the systems they are using.
That's changing. PSTN is now open to voip but they have to pay like
everyone else. So those low voip rates are going up if you want 9-1-1
service. Add another buck or two a month. Number portability has
become a issue when people find out they can port to voip but voip
didn't have to port to another service. People complain and now voip
will have to pay and provide for the service, add another dollar or 2 a
month.
Connectivity was favorable to voip since they could lease local lines
at a cost lower from what the phone company paid to maintain them.
That's gone with the last FCC ruling. Voip must pay market rates. Add
another dollar or 2 to the monthly bill.
Let's not forget that voip has ZERO standards that they have to meet.
If state and federal agencies get too many complaints they will want to
cover their cost and that means voip paying just like the phone
company.
Voip is cheap 'cause it's not phone service, anyone who thinks it is or
that it will conquer the world is full of it. Voip is getting a second
look now that people have been nearly killed using it and because it's
not "REAL" phone service, and rates are going up as they start paying
their way and the free rides end.





  #16   Report Post  
Crash Gordon
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Yah I did leave that part out .. and if it doesnt release the line it could
be really bad.
It's not permitted in these here parts.



"Russell Brill" wrote in message
k.net...

"Crash Gordon" wrote in message
...
Most municipalities forbid dialers with voice messages to be transmitted
to police/fire/911 etc. If you want dispatch you'll have to go through
monitoring station.

Crash, you left out the part about the big fat fine a homeowner will get
if their system automatically dials 911...

You can program most alarms to page you on your pager, though this has
it's quirks. You can also purchase a voice module that will transmit
message to your cell phone...of course if it doesnt get through to your
cell you wont get the message. There are a lot of drawbacks to
"self-monitoring".

No...Brinks, ADT etc, do not send voice messages to 911. In my area our
central stations are given special phone numbers to dial into for
dispatch...not 911, and not end-user numbers.

Do you intend to install this yourself, or try to find an installing
company that will install a "local" alarm system? You may have trouble if
the latter is true.

hth

"Alex" wrote in message
ps.com...
Hi everyone,

Me and my wife are wanting to put an alarm system in our home, but we
live in a fairly good neighborhood, and though none of my neighbors
(some living there for 30+ years) know of any problems in the
neighborhood or surrounding streets, we'd feel more comfortable with
some sort of alarm system.

I know Brinks and ADT have remote monitoring, but I'd like something I
can monitor myself without monthly fee's. Ideally I'd love to have
something with window and door scensors plus glass break alarms, but
the perks I'd love to get are something that'll connect to my computer
and either send a page to me or better yet just call 911 with an
automatic message asking for help. All Brinks and ADT do is this,
isn't it??? Why pay them if a system can be setup to do this for me.

Thanks for any suggestions, but being a rookie in this field I'm not
sure what's available out there. I guess for me simply having an alarm
that sets off an alarm when the circuit around the doors and windows
breaks would work, but the perks of notification would be nice

Thanks for any ideas or thoughts.

Sam Alex








  #17   Report Post  
Robert L Bass
 
Posts: n/a
Default

That's right for now, voip don't pay into the systems
they are using.


I disagree. VoIP providers like Vonage spend millions every
month on telephone service. Any VoIP call to a standard
telephone line requires a conventional phone line at some
point.

... those low voip rates are going up if you want 9-1-1
service. Add another buck or two a month...


AFAIK that's not correct, friend. 911 service is not subject to
extra charges.

Let's not forget that voip has ZERO standards that they
have to meet...


IME conventional telcos have rarely met the established
standards. As to price increases, that's just part of
telecommunications service -- no matter what type of line you
choose.

If state and federal agencies get too many complaints
they will want to cover their cost and that means voip
paying just like the phone company.


Huh? Cost of getting consumer complaints??? Every state DPUC
I've ever known mainly ignores consumer complaints. They do an
excellent job of rubber-stamping telco rate hike requests though.

Voip is cheap 'cause it's not phone service, anyone
who thinks it is or that it will conquer the world is
full of it...


Those of us who actually use VoIP every day might tend to
disagree with you. I've had the service for over a year. At
first there were major quality and reliability issues so I only
used it as an overflow for my POTS lines.

The service has improved to the point where it is now *almost* as
good as conventional telco service. It won't work at all if the
power fails so it isn't as safe as a POTS line. Digital alarm
monitoring signals seem to have trouble using VoIP too so it's
not ideal for that purpose either. However, as a voice telecom
service it's excellent. It's also much less expensive than POTS.

The near future will, IMO, see a significant growth in VoIP
usage. I'm particularly interested in developing services, such
as auto-attendant system.

Voip is getting a second look now that people have been
nearly killed using it and because it's not "REAL" phone
service, and rates are going up as they start paying
their way and the free rides end.


Can't afford the broad speed Internet service that VoIP requires,
eh?

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

Bass Burglar Alarms
The Online DIY Store
http://www.BassBurglarAlarms.com
  #18   Report Post  
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Alex:

From my experience, if you are careful about choosing your monitoring

company, you might come out ahead financially, as well as enjoy the
benefits of professional monitoring. The online monitoring companies
charge around $108 per year (assuming annual payment), but by having a
monitored alarm system, I'm saving about $160 per year in insurance
premiums. So, I'm netting about $50 per year. Your results might
vary, since there are a lot of variables that determine insurance
premiums. Further, if you pay $40+ per month to ADT or Brinks for
monitoring, then obviously the economics are different.

Rob

  #19   Report Post  
Jim
 
Posts: n/a
Default


Travis Jordan wrote:
Crash Gordon wrote:
That's an interesting question though. I wonder if VOIP users are
paying tele taxes presently? I would think so..but dunno.


Nope, they're not. The FCC said last year and in subsequent rulings
that VoIP is an "unregulated information service" and not subject to
traditional state public utility control or oversight.


I've wondered about this.
For instance, up until a couple of years ago, VoIP wasn't important.
The standard Telco bills run rampant with surcharges, state and Fed
taxes, and fees. And on cell phones, a 911 surcharge and some such
other surcharge to help pay for people to have cellular service in
rural areas, so I am told.(Wha ?)

If VoIP is not taxable, and it begins to seriously compete with the
Telcos, ........... Somewhere, sometime, someone, is going to miss the
revenue and ...... guess what's going to get taxed? I'm also waiting
for the tax revenue to be missed by all of the internet purchases.
Anyone want to make bets on when that little balloon is going to burst?

Isn't it all just a case of ......... (whisper) Let's just let them all
get used to using it, until they can't do without it and it becomes a
necessity. THENNNNN we'll REALLY blast them with more taxes and
surcharges than we ever could of charged doin it the old way. (Chuckle,
chuckle, wringing hands with a greedy, sinister grin)

  #20   Report Post  
Jen...tel
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Voip providers do pay for telco lines but they paid the regulated
competition rate for access lines. Since the FCC said they are not
phone service, they are no longer entitled to the super discounted rate
mandated to open local phone service to competition. So they didn't
want to be regulated as a phone service but wanted the cheap cost of
being a competing phone service. Can't have it both ways. Damn good
the judge rule they must pay market rates and can't ride the coat tails
of competitor pricing if they also claim to not be a phone company.
Get out the checkbook.

Now Mr. Robert, 911 service is NOT free. It cost to operate the PSTN
and every POTS and Cell customer pays to maintain it. Voip wants to
use it, let them pay like everyone else. Oh so they have to pay and
raise rates, gee too bad!

You said it best; it's almost as good. But in an emergency almost
isn't good enough! Vonage hid behind the cheap rates and didn't even
tell people that their service was sub-standard and NOT at all like
POTS service. It took the hellish attack in Texas for them to admit to
their customers that they really didn't have phone service so 911
didn't really work. Now they are complaining (like all voip providers)
that they may not be able to meet the requirement to have their
customer's acknowledge the shortfalls in voip. They are even
complaining that the cost to access PSTN will force them to raise rate.
Small voip providers said they may be forced to stop offering voip
service because of cost. Voip dodged the bullet when those folks
survived, imagine if they both died? It's not funny but how much did
those folks save considering their ordeal? What did they do when they
were attacked, they picked up their phone and dialed 9-1-1. What they
got was nothing, the nothing that came with using an "unregulated
information service" over REAL phone service.

If voip wants to act like a phone company they need to pay like a phone
company. All voip has to offer is cheap rates and now they are ****ed
cause they have to pay for what they were hoping would be free to them.

Just to let you know, I have high speed internet and my POTS line is
free, but I still pay the surcharges and fees associated with
maintaining the public service portion of my service. If I have to
pay, so should voip.



  #21   Report Post  
Wug
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Crash Gordon" wrote in message ...

Do you intend to install this yourself, or try to find an installing
company that will install a "local" alarm system? You may have trouble if
the latter is true.


Why might one run into trouble if the latter is true? Couldn't alarm
companies simply charge for the parts, charge for the installation, and
offer some kind of limited warranty for parts & workmanship like
electricians, plumbers, HVAC, etc folks do? I can understand them
wanting the extra income associated with monitoring, but is there really
so much work out there that they tend to turn away the less lucrative
non monitored installs? Or is there some other issue involved?
  #22   Report Post  
R.H.Campbell
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In my experience, alarmco's won't bother with a local system, or if they do
install, it's at a VERY high price. Unfortunately, the market has been
squewed towards the monthly portion as the major source of revenue
(undoubtably by the proliferation of "free systems"). So without that, most
alarmco's will only install a local system by adding a portion of the
profits they would otherwise make in the monthly costs.

Often, small local contractors just starting out, will install local
systems, both for the money and to increase exposure in the marketplace,
since ultimately it will be referrals that will bring in customers over the
longer term. So unfortunately, those wishing only a local system are left to
fend for themselves. (I will service the 50 or so local systems I personally
installed, but at a fair market price for service. Others I won't touch
unless they want them monitored properly)

I too am "guilty" of this. I just don't want to waste my time and labour on
systems which are IMO crippled in their ability to do a professional job
from the "getgo". Alarm systems are about response, not noise. Without
professional monitoring, you have no response worth speaking of. After 10
years in the business, I truly have come to believe this. However, it can
also be said by the more sceptical, that I am biased and have become lured
by the siren song of RMR ! To that, I also plead guilty !!

But the former reason is the more important one !

R.H.Campbell
Home Security Metal Products
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
www.homemetal.com


"Wug" wrote in message
...

"Crash Gordon" wrote in message
...


Why might one run into trouble if the latter is true? Couldn't alarm
companies simply charge for the parts, charge for the installation, and
offer some kind of limited warranty for parts & workmanship like
electricians, plumbers, HVAC, etc folks do? I can understand them
wanting the extra income associated with monitoring, but is there really
so much work out there that they tend to turn away the less lucrative
non monitored installs? Or is there some other issue involved?



  #23   Report Post  
Crash Gordon
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Yes they can.

I will do a local system if I have time, my monitored clients have my full
attention though.

Some companies won't install local systems at all, you'd just have to find
one that will.

And, keep in mind you may pay a higher price, not punitively, but because
the installing company continues to make money on a monitored client whereas
on in a local system you may not see that client again for years...if at
all.


"Wug" wrote in message
...

"Crash Gordon" wrote in message
...

Do you intend to install this yourself, or try to find an installing
company that will install a "local" alarm system? You may have trouble if
the latter is true.


Why might one run into trouble if the latter is true? Couldn't alarm
companies simply charge for the parts, charge for the installation, and
offer some kind of limited warranty for parts & workmanship like
electricians, plumbers, HVAC, etc folks do? I can understand them
wanting the extra income associated with monitoring, but is there really
so much work out there that they tend to turn away the less lucrative
non monitored installs? Or is there some other issue involved?



  #24   Report Post  
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Most people who are aware of VOIP think that it's cheap primarily
because of some great digital technological breakthrough. They don't
realize that virtually all voice traffic has been digital for a very
long time. In the case of existing phone lines, the A/D was done at
the switch at the local phone company. From there on through the
network it was all handled digitally, running through exactly the same
kind of fiber optic lines and other high speed digital lines as the
internet, until it was converted back to analog at the far end. The
big difference was that the phone system guarantees that every digital
sample arrives at the other end at precise intervals that correspond to
the 8khz sampling rate. With VOIP, the packets can be routed all over
the place, with no guarantee that they will get there at the right
time. That's a big difference in quality of service.

Most people who went to VOIP did not do it to avoid the $20 monthly
local phone service fee. The did it because they had high toll call
bills, with a lot of that likely being over seas calls. So what they
were avoiding was the regulated tariff structure, both domestic and
international, at the the expense of reliability. Along the way, many
found out that there are in fact some serious problems, like the 911
issue and call quality. And also, since we're on the subject of call
monitoring, do the major monitoring services work with VOIP? I know as
of a couple years ago, they had a policy of not supporting it. The
domestic long distance cost has dropped sharply over the last few
years, with most providers now offering some form of bulk or unlimited
calling packages at more reasonable rates, so the incentive to switch
keeps dropping.

And today statements like:

"Those of us who actually use VoIP every day might tend to
disagree with you. I've had the service for over a year. At
first there were major quality and reliability issues so I only
used it as an overflow for my POTS lines. "

hardly bring a ringing endorsement. If there were major quality and
reliability issues that recently, I'll just stick with Verizon.

  #25   Report Post  
Percival P. Cassidy
 
Posts: n/a
Default

And then there is the question of reliability of the Internet service on
which VoIP depends. When we lived in NY, our phone service
(Nynex/BA/Verizon) was more reliable than our Internet service
(CableVision/Optimum Online), and in the two years we've been in W.
Michigan our phone service (SBC) has been more reliable than our
Internet service (Charter). In both places interruption to Internet
service has been rare (but once as long as 36 hrs in NY), but I wouldn't
want to have to depend on my ISP for phone service.

Perce


On 09/11/05 06:15 am tossed the following
ingredients into the ever-growing pot of cybersoup:

Most people who are aware of VOIP think that it's cheap primarily
because of some great digital technological breakthrough. They don't
realize that virtually all voice traffic has been digital for a very
long time. In the case of existing phone lines, the A/D was done at
the switch at the local phone company. From there on through the
network it was all handled digitally, running through exactly the same
kind of fiber optic lines and other high speed digital lines as the
internet, until it was converted back to analog at the far end. The
big difference was that the phone system guarantees that every digital
sample arrives at the other end at precise intervals that correspond to
the 8khz sampling rate. With VOIP, the packets can be routed all over
the place, with no guarantee that they will get there at the right
time. That's a big difference in quality of service.

Most people who went to VOIP did not do it to avoid the $20 monthly
local phone service fee. The did it because they had high toll call
bills, with a lot of that likely being over seas calls. So what they
were avoiding was the regulated tariff structure, both domestic and
international, at the the expense of reliability. Along the way, many
found out that there are in fact some serious problems, like the 911
issue and call quality. And also, since we're on the subject of call
monitoring, do the major monitoring services work with VOIP? I know as
of a couple years ago, they had a policy of not supporting it. The
domestic long distance cost has dropped sharply over the last few
years, with most providers now offering some form of bulk or unlimited
calling packages at more reasonable rates, so the incentive to switch
keeps dropping.

And today statements like:

"Those of us who actually use VoIP every day might tend to
disagree with you. I've had the service for over a year. At
first there were major quality and reliability issues so I only
used it as an overflow for my POTS lines. "

hardly bring a ringing endorsement. If there were major quality and
reliability issues that recently, I'll just stick with Verizon.



  #26   Report Post  
Jackcsg
 
Posts: n/a
Default

There are several different grades of Internet service. They range from
aDSL, cable modems, and satellite. They offer NO guarantee of up time, hence
the low cost. sDSL, T-1, and other fractional T services offer guaranteed up
time, typically 99.99 percent. Unless you're dependant on running your
business out of your home, typically, you choose the cheapest service you
can find. Where a business, typically, chooses the higher dependability of
services.
Of course nothing, including anything you own electronic, is guaranteed to
work all the time.
It's knowing when it doesn't that makes the Internet a better choice for
routing alarm signals, and either radio back-up, or cellular back-up, that
further ensures communication.
People who choose to cancel land lines, and place a VoIP service as their
only form of communication to the outside world, aren't very smart. There
isn't a single business in the US that operates with that kind of mentality.
VoIP is a product designed to cut communication costs, not replace them. The
reliability just isn't there yet, residentially.


"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote in message
news
And then there is the question of reliability of the Internet service on
which VoIP depends. When we lived in NY, our phone service
(Nynex/BA/Verizon) was more reliable than our Internet service
(CableVision/Optimum Online), and in the two years we've been in W.
Michigan our phone service (SBC) has been more reliable than our
Internet service (Charter). In both places interruption to Internet
service has been rare (but once as long as 36 hrs in NY), but I wouldn't
want to have to depend on my ISP for phone service.

Perce


On 09/11/05 06:15 am tossed the following
ingredients into the ever-growing pot of cybersoup:

Most people who are aware of VOIP think that it's cheap primarily
because of some great digital technological breakthrough. They don't
realize that virtually all voice traffic has been digital for a very
long time. In the case of existing phone lines, the A/D was done at
the switch at the local phone company. From there on through the
network it was all handled digitally, running through exactly the same
kind of fiber optic lines and other high speed digital lines as the
internet, until it was converted back to analog at the far end. The
big difference was that the phone system guarantees that every digital
sample arrives at the other end at precise intervals that correspond to
the 8khz sampling rate. With VOIP, the packets can be routed all over
the place, with no guarantee that they will get there at the right
time. That's a big difference in quality of service.

Most people who went to VOIP did not do it to avoid the $20 monthly
local phone service fee. The did it because they had high toll call
bills, with a lot of that likely being over seas calls. So what they
were avoiding was the regulated tariff structure, both domestic and
international, at the the expense of reliability. Along the way, many
found out that there are in fact some serious problems, like the 911
issue and call quality. And also, since we're on the subject of call
monitoring, do the major monitoring services work with VOIP? I know as
of a couple years ago, they had a policy of not supporting it. The
domestic long distance cost has dropped sharply over the last few
years, with most providers now offering some form of bulk or unlimited
calling packages at more reasonable rates, so the incentive to switch
keeps dropping.

And today statements like:

"Those of us who actually use VoIP every day might tend to
disagree with you. I've had the service for over a year. At
first there were major quality and reliability issues so I only
used it as an overflow for my POTS lines. "

hardly bring a ringing endorsement. If there were major quality and
reliability issues that recently, I'll just stick with Verizon.



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