I am in the process of looking for and buying my second house.

The first time around we used an agent, but they were totally useless.

Now before I get a bunch of replies from agents talking about all the
stuff they provide their clients like me clarify a few things:

1) I don't need an agent to help me find properites
2) I know that any agent I use is really just working to make the sale
happen, working to get me to buy a house, even if it is a bad deal (or
bad house).
3) An attorney will take care of all legal issues I have.
4) I am not willing to pay an agent to be my buyers agent just to get
them to actually represent me, and not the sale.


Ok, so now that thats out of the way...


The last time, the only thing the agent did was get us physical access
to the houses we were interested in.


Now if I were selling a house, I would not be thinking about using an
agent, but because I am BUYING a house, I am wondering if there is any
reason to NOT use an agent.

If I buy a 500k house, that means something around 15k is going to go
to my agent. If I don't have an agent, that 15k just goes back to the
sellers agent, so it isn't like I am going to be saving myself any
money.


Does anyone have a point of view on this?

cmay wrote:
I am in the process of looking for and buying my second house.

The first time around we used an agent, but they were totally useless.

Now before I get a bunch of replies from agents talking about all the
stuff they provide their clients like me clarify a few things:

1) I don't need an agent to help me find properites
2) I know that any agent I use is really just working to make the sale
happen, working to get me to buy a house, even if it is a bad deal (or
bad house).
3) An attorney will take care of all legal issues I have.
4) I am not willing to pay an agent to be my buyers agent just to get
them to actually represent me, and not the sale.


Ok, so now that thats out of the way...


The last time, the only thing the agent did was get us physical access
to the houses we were interested in.


Now if I were selling a house, I would not be thinking about using an
agent, but because I am BUYING a house, I am wondering if there is any
reason to NOT use an agent.

If I buy a 500k house, that means something around 15k is going to go
to my agent. If I don't have an agent, that 15k just goes back to the
sellers agent, so it isn't like I am going to be saving myself any
money.


Does anyone have a point of view on this?


I never saw a difference between a buying or selling agent. They both
take cuts and both push the sell.

If you have a lawyer and cand find your own properties then you dont
need an agent.

For me the agent was finding my houses while I was at work all day. And
when I got off there was a list of places for me to investigate.

Yes they take a fee, you just have to work em to ensure they earn it.
(and also make sure the fee is minimal up front)

--
Respectfully,


CL Gilbert

The only reason not to use them, is that sometimes they will show you
properties that will fetch them the highest commission, rather then the
ones matching your needs.

Otherwise - why not, the seller pays, not you.

Ok My .02cents and I am a realtor.

Do you need a realtor? NO

Now my take on this is that there is a potential 3% of 500k that you either
need to negotiate off of the sale price or.....

Could I suggest that you take the applicable classes approx 4 either
classroom or correspondence (easy) and become a licensed realtor yourself.
Approx cost $1,000 then you do the looking / investigating and when you find
a house you like you handle your whole side of the transaction.

Now the benefit to this is at closing you walk away with the 15K minus any
fees to your sponsoring broker (find a low monthly fee approx $80/month,
100% commission sponsoring broker) and you purchase your house and you have
15k to spend on......

Just my .02cents and if you live in Texas I can point you in the direction
to your real estate license. Just to provide a little background I have my
real estate license and use it not only to buy my primary residences but
also to locate investment property so I make 3% on the buy and save 3% on
the sell and it add's up.

Ok all the best to you.

FSJ
"cmay" wrote in message
ups.com...
I am in the process of looking for and buying my second house.

The first time around we used an agent, but they were totally useless.

Now before I get a bunch of replies from agents talking about all the
stuff they provide their clients like me clarify a few things:

1) I don't need an agent to help me find properites
2) I know that any agent I use is really just working to make the sale
happen, working to get me to buy a house, even if it is a bad deal (or
bad house).
3) An attorney will take care of all legal issues I have.
4) I am not willing to pay an agent to be my buyers agent just to get
them to actually represent me, and not the sale.


Ok, so now that thats out of the way...


The last time, the only thing the agent did was get us physical access
to the houses we were interested in.


Now if I were selling a house, I would not be thinking about using an
agent, but because I am BUYING a house, I am wondering if there is any
reason to NOT use an agent.

If I buy a 500k house, that means something around 15k is going to go
to my agent. If I don't have an agent, that 15k just goes back to the
sellers agent, so it isn't like I am going to be saving myself any
money.


Does anyone have a point of view on this?

Whoever this cmay was responding with a ? was not me.

Thats a very interesting idea!!

Thanks!

wrote:
The only reason not to use them, is that sometimes they will show you
properties that will fetch them the highest commission, rather then the
ones matching your needs.

Otherwise - why not, the seller pays, not you.


They get a cut of the sales price. The higher the price.. Which means
you pay too. Also, without the 2nd agent, the overall 'agent's cut' is
lower. And since you are paying the price, again, you pay.

--
Respectfully,


CL Gilbert

If you are in Washington State, I offer a la carte real estate services
and refund my commission to you at closing. So far I have saved my
clients an average of $10,540 per transaction...more than enough for
todays low down payment loan options.

http://hourlyagents.com/

CL (dnoyeB) Gilbert wrote:

They get a cut of the sales price. The higher the price.. Which means

you pay too. Also, without the 2nd agent, the overall 'agent's cut' is

lower. And since you are paying the price, again, you pay.

It looks to me that if you cut the buyer's agent off the deal, you are NOT
going to get any price benefit. It looks to me that only the seller will
actually benefit from you not using an agent as a buyer. This is unless
I'm missing something - I haven't sold a house yet, just bought the first
one a year ago, and my (buyer's) agent was a great convenience. He was no
help in negotiating the price though, but he was able to find some
listings in his online system.

BTW, this seems to be a hot topic. I just came across a discussion on the
same topic in another newsgroup that was posted couple days ago. If someone
's interested, here is the link:

http://www.equity-loan.info/Re-Why-d...ticle102-1.htm


Cheers!
D.
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I found realtors to be incredibly annoying. No matter what I told them
I was looking for, they would take us to see things that had *nothing*
to do with our descriptions. We would say "we want something quiet,
with some land, away from busy roads" and they would show us houses on
main streets, with no yards.

After we'd say "We're trying to find something with acreage, for $x,"
they would invariably say, "Ah, well, there aren't many like that on
the market." Well, we only need ONE, thank you. And that should make it
easier to show us houses, if there aren't many. Thanks again, ma'am.

Here's what we did in the end:

1. Search http://www.realtor.com for what we wanted
2. Print out maps to the houses and drive by 5 or 6 of them on a
Saturday
3. Call the listing agent for the houses we were interested in
4. Buy the one that fits

This way you also *always* meet with the listing agent.

And never, EVER sign an exclusivity contract. They're ludicrous, and in
no way benefit the buyer. We met with a couple of realtors using our
method that would say "You have to sign one of these contracts or we
can't show you the house," to which we replied "Fine, we'll sign it,
for a 24-hour period."

That always worked. Keep it in mind, it will most likely come up.


hth....
fnord

In article .com,
fnord wrote:

And never, EVER sign an exclusivity contract. They're ludicrous, and in
no way benefit the buyer. We met with a couple of realtors using our
method that would say "You have to sign one of these contracts or we
can't show you the house," to which we replied "Fine, we'll sign it,
for a 24-hour period."

How did you do this? Add some wording to the contract specifying a 24
hour life?

--
Rich Greenberg Marietta, GA, USA richgr atsign panix.com + 1 770 321 6507
Eastern time. N6LRT I speak for myself & my dogs only. VM'er since CP-67
Canines:Val, Red & Shasta (RIP),Red, husky Owner:Chinook-L
Atlanta Siberian Husky Rescue. www.panix.com/~richgr/ Asst Owner:Sibernet-L

In article .com,
fnord wrote:
I found realtors to be incredibly annoying. No matter what I told them
I was looking for, they would take us to see things that had *nothing*
to do with our descriptions. We would say "we want something quiet,
with some land, away from busy roads" and they would show us houses on
main streets, with no yards.

I had a similar experience when I was shopping for my previous house
which involved a transcontinental move. I gave agent A a list of
requirements which included a preferred price range and a maximum
commute time to my new job. I later discovered that my price range was
unrealistic for that commute time but agent A didn't say this, just
started touring houses in my price range. The next day, I drove from
the one I liked best to where I was going to be working and it was
tripple my max time, and this was outside of rush hour. Told this to
agent A who didn't seem to comprehend what I was complaining about.

Talked to agent B (who was suggested by the new job's HR dept) and right
off he said that for that commute time I would have to pay more and
asked which was more important. I told him the time and he started
showing me houses that were relatively close to work. I bought one of
them.

Agent A called me again to show me more houses and was royally ****ed
that I had just made an offer. Still didn't seem to comprehend what my
objections to his houses was. TS to him.

--
Rich Greenberg Marietta, GA, USA richgr atsign panix.com + 1 770 321 6507
Eastern time. N6LRT I speak for myself & my dogs only. VM'er since CP-67
Canines:Val, Red & Shasta (RIP),Red, husky Owner:Chinook-L
Atlanta Siberian Husky Rescue. www.panix.com/~richgr/ Asst Owner:Sibernet-L

Just don't sign anything with a buyers agent. You have no obligation
to a buyers agent. If they are pulling their weight and working hard
for you, you will reward them with the commission. If they are showing
you garbage find another one.

The buyer's agent myth is that they are free...they (we) are paid by
the seller, but who is paying the seller? That's right, the
buyer-that is YOU!

My only caution to you for working directly with the listing agent is
that the listing agent will be acting as a dual agent (both for buyer
and seller) and if he/she does not have moral integrity the parties
could be played against each other. Also, if you buy through the
listing agent, the listing agent gets all 6% commission.

If you are doing to the work, find yourself an agent that will just
write up the offer for you. I can help you in Washington State and I
am sure there are plenty of agents nationwide that will help you write
up the paperwork for a nominal fee and rebate you their 3%.

See my site http://hourlyagents.com for more information.

Rich Greenberg wrote:
In article .com,
fnord wrote:

And never, EVER sign an exclusivity contract. They're ludicrous, and in
no way benefit the buyer. We met with a couple of realtors using our
method that would say "You have to sign one of these contracts or we
can't show you the house," to which we replied "Fine, we'll sign it,
for a 24-hour period."

How did you do this? Add some wording to the contract specifying a 24
hour life?

--
Rich Greenberg Marietta, GA, USA richgr atsign panix.com + 1 770 321 6507
Eastern time. N6LRT I speak for myself & my dogs only. VM'er since CP-67
Canines:Val, Red & Shasta (RIP),Red, husky Owner:Chinook-L
Atlanta Siberian Husky Rescue. www.panix.com/~richgr/ Asst Owner:Sibernet-L

In article ,
(DA) wrote:

It looks to me that if you cut the buyer's agent off the deal, you are NOT
going to get any price benefit. It looks to me that only the seller will
actually benefit from you not using an agent as a buyer.

Usually, not even. They pay the listing agent; the listing agent pays
the selling agent. Unless they worked something special out where they
pay a reduced commission if there's no selling agent...then the seller
saves nothing.

I hear that if you don't bring your own agent though you can try to work
something out and get a rebate from the listing agent, if he/she is
getting the full commission...we didn't know about that possibility and
didn't try it, so I don't know how often that pans out.

Cheers,
Kendall

--
Kendall P. Bullen http://www.his.com/~kendall/
kendall@---^^^^^^^

Never e-mail me copies of Usenet postings, please.
I do read the groups to which I post!

"I had a similar experience when I was shopping for my previous house
which involved a transcontinental move. I gave agent A a list of
requirements which included a preferred price range and a maximum
commute time to my new job. I later discovered that my price range was

unrealistic for that commute time but agent A didn't say this, just
started touring houses in my price range. The next day, I drove from
the one I liked best to where I was going to be working and it was
tripple my max time, and this was outside of rush hour. Told this to
agent A who didn't seem to comprehend what I was complaining about. "

I've had similar experiences. There are way too many real estate
agents that just can't or won't do a simple discovery to find out what
buyer's requirements and preferences are. Instead of listening and
figuring out what people want, they just want to waste everyone's time
and reduce their own income. My latest experience was going to an
open house for a waterfront property in the area I'm currently living
in. The house was small, on a very small lot and cost more than my
present home. I explained to the agent that I was just looking, not
seriously in the market. And I clearly told him that I have a large
contemporary 3 bedroom home, over size 2 car garage on an acre lot with
lots of trees and privacy. I said while I like waterfront, I'm not
willing to give up these things that are more important to me and I
know to get a property with those features on the water is going to
cost a lot more than the house he was showing, which already cost more
than my current home, and I wasn't willing to pay anywhere near that
much. He insisted that he could find me a house and was calling me
the next day. Needless to say, I declined his offer.

Kendall P. Bullen wrote:
In article ,
(DA) wrote:


It looks to me that if you cut the buyer's agent off the deal, you are NOT
going to get any price benefit. It looks to me that only the seller will
actually benefit from you not using an agent as a buyer.


Usually, not even. They pay the listing agent; the listing agent pays
the selling agent. Unless they worked something special out where they
pay a reduced commission if there's no selling agent...then the seller
saves nothing.

I hear that if you don't bring your own agent though you can try to work
something out and get a rebate from the listing agent, if he/she is
getting the full commission...we didn't know about that possibility and
didn't try it, so I don't know how often that pans out.

Cheers,
Kendall



Exactly. For instance, our selling agent was getting like 3% if no
buying agent. This was because the selling agent was effectively being
both buying and selling agent.

But if there was a seperate buying agent, the selling agent was getting
only 2% and the buying agent 2%. So it was 1% higher if there were 2
agents.

I think the percentage offered to the buying agents was probably an
attracting point for agents.

But either way, without that 2nd cut beign taken, you have more room for
negotiation with the seller for a lower price.

--
Respectfully,


CL Gilbert

fnord wrote:
I found realtors to be incredibly annoying. No matter what I told them
I was looking for, they would take us to see things that had *nothing*
to do with our descriptions. We would say "we want something quiet,
with some land, away from busy roads" and they would show us houses on
main streets, with no yards.

After we'd say "We're trying to find something with acreage, for $x,"
they would invariably say, "Ah, well, there aren't many like that on
the market." Well, we only need ONE, thank you. And that should make it
easier to show us houses, if there aren't many. Thanks again, ma'am.

Here's what we did in the end:

1. Search http://www.realtor.com for what we wanted
2. Print out maps to the houses and drive by 5 or 6 of them on a
Saturday
3. Call the listing agent for the houses we were interested in
4. Buy the one that fits

This way you also *always* meet with the listing agent.

And never, EVER sign an exclusivity contract. They're ludicrous, and in
no way benefit the buyer. We met with a couple of realtors using our
method that would say "You have to sign one of these contracts or we
can't show you the house," to which we replied "Fine, we'll sign it,
for a 24-hour period."

That always worked. Keep it in mind, it will most likely come up.


hth....
fnord


Yea, I would get off work friday and the agent would have a list for us
to see. So first how was like $50000 over my limit. I would just
laugh. Then we went into some fixer-uppers, which I got no time
for...After a few outtings with the 'stupid look' I kept giving her, she
cleaned up her act.

in the end though I got a house that I didnt really know I wanted and
didnt really meet my criteria. So I guess she knew something afterall
and we were happy.

Yea, we used reltor.com and sent many of the houses to her, telling her
to get us to see them.

She was also our seling agent for our house.

I didnt like calling the listing agents for the houses on realtor.com as
we would have to go through the same jibberish and conversation and
contract waving every time. 'twas easier to just send them to our agent.


--
Respectfully,


CL Gilbert

On 22 Jun 2005 12:06:15 -0700, someone wrote:


Does anyone have a point of view on this?

Personally, I only "used an agent" when buying, about 25 years ago on
my first property. I did it because I thought she would help me find
a selection of properies that memy specifictons. Even then, I quickly
saw that she was only taking me around to her own agency's listings,
even though they did not meet my specifications. I had to
specifically ask to see other properties that I spotted.

I have not used an agent when buying since, except in the sense that
most of the properties were listed so I would approach the Seller's
agent. If you are familiar with the area and don't need help finding
properties for sale, I don't see that much point, EXCEPT to have your
own go-between during negotiation. Some people are more comfortable
with that.


Reply to NG only - this e.mail address goes to a kill file.

In article ,
"CL (dnoyeB) Gilbert" wrote:

I think the percentage offered to the buying agents was probably an
attracting point for agents.

The listing agent for the house we just bought said something about how
she wouldn't show a house if there was no commission in it for her, when
she's the selling (misnamed "buyer's") agent. (Which I understand, mind
you...no incentive...but it's a shame the whole real estate racket works
like this.)

Kendall

--
Kendall P. Bullen http://www.his.com/~kendall/
kendall@---^^^^^^^

Never e-mail me copies of Usenet postings, please.
I do read the groups to which I post!

Sounds like a great service, if only I was in Washington, but
unfortunately I am in Chicago.