A few months ago, we bought a house in New York with over 2 acres of
landscaped yard. Obviously, I needed a lawn tractor to care for it, but I
didn't want to spend too much money on it. I was happy to find a Troy-Bilt
"Pony" (779) at Lowe's for a thousand bucks. For those who don't know, this
is manufactured by MTD, the same company that makes the ultra high-end Cub
Cadet lawn tractors. See:

http://www.mtdproducts.com/home.jsp

Overall, this Troy-Bilt "Pony" works pretty well. If it lasts a few years,
I'll be happy with it. But it has a design flaw (IMHO) which MTD is not
willing to acknowledge.

The oil drain plug of the Briggs/Stratton engine sits right on top of a
horizontal metal panel.

The service requirements for this engine call for the oil to be changed
after the first 5 hours of use, and then at certain intervals after that.
(depending partly on how it is used)

The instructions for changing the oil are in the Lawn Tractor's owner's
manual, page 19. It does not say that you have to remove the side panel to
drain the oil, but it does say that you might have to remove a side-panel to
replace an oil filter. Anyway, you have to remove the (right) side panel of
the tractor to change the oil, even though there is no oil filter. That's a
minor thing, nothing to bitch about. Just pop off four bolts and the side
panel is off.

The problem is in the oil draining procedure. MTD includes an oil drain
sleeve to snap onto the B/S engine to use to drain the oil. But there are
three problems with this oil drain sleeve. First, because the oil drain
sleeve sits on a metal plate, it is HORIZONTAL when installed on the engine
(remember fluids like to flow downhill). Second, the oil drain sleeve does
not make a tight seal with the engine. Third, the oil drain sleeve is not
nearly long enough to move oil away from the tractor. Bottom line, if you
follow the oil change instructions to the letter, you will have a huge mess
on your hands. With the oil drain sleeve sitting level, oil pools up on the
oil drain sleeve, and then seeps between the oil drain sleeve and the
engine. (because there is not a tight seal) So the oil doesn't drain as it
should. This is ignoring the fact that if it DID drain, there is nowhere to
place a container to catch it. I tried to use a oil change pan (what else?)
to drain the oil into. BUT, there is not nearly enough space for an oil
change pan between the tractor's cutting deck and the right front wheel, if
you try to place the oil change pan under the end of the too-short oil drain
sleeve. I ended up balancing the oil change pan on the cutting deck and a
block of wood. But this wasn't a great solution, as I had a lot of oil end
up on the ground anyway.(escaping between the oil change sleeve and the
engine)

I brought this matter to the attention of MTD. They replied stating that I
should use an oil siphon to suck the oil out through the fill hole. Well,
that's certainly one solution. But if that's the actual recommended
procedure for changing the oil of the Troy-Bilt lawn tractors, why is that
not in the owner's manual for the Troy-Bilt lawn tractors? Also, the main
reason to change the oil of any engine is to remove impurities that
accumulate in the oil (some of which are heavier than the oil, so they are
pulled down by gravity). I would think that draining the oil with gravity
would be more likely to get these impurities out than sucking the oil out
through the top of the engine. Right???

Well as a last resort I might buy an oil siphon to use that to change the
oil in my lawn tractor. But first I'm going to try propping up the left
side of the tractor a few inches, so that the oil drain sleeve might
actually DRAIN oil. (This might not be real safe, unless the wheels are
firmly chocked) I'm not sure this will be good for the engine. I'll have
to see how much oil actually comes out. There is supposed to be about 48
ounces of oil in the engine. I got -just- over a quart out of it following
the recommended oil change procedure as written in the lawn tractor's
owner's manual. (actually, I'm not sure how much came out, as I couldn't
measure what was spilled on the ground)

Anyway, I tried googling to see if anyone else had this problem, but I came
up with no hits. It's hard for me to believe that I'm the first Troy-Bilt
lawn tractor owner who has had a problem changing the oil, considering that
the proper procedure for doing so is not even in the owner's manual. Is
everyone else hiring somebody to change the oil in their lawn tractors? Or
are they just not changing the oil? We do have a neighbor who does
small-engine repair professionally out of his own house. But, I don't see
the sense in hiring somebody to do a job that should take about 10 minutes
and ~5 bucks worth of materials (some full synthetic 10W30, a little over a
quart)

Just thought I'd let people know that if they want to buy a Troy-Bilt lawn
tractor (or the Pony, at least . . . I wonder if the other models have the
same problem?), the maintenance of the engine is a little harder than the
instructions written in the lawn tractor owner's manual might lead you to
believe. This is not a major gripe. Overall, as I said before, the Pony is
pretty decent. It gets the job done. It's a real pain to change the oil,
though. -Dave

I'd think so too -- but every oil change business around here uses
a pump now instead of removing the drain plug. Apparently the
practice hasn't caused any damage.

Ted B. wrote:
Also, the main
reason to change the oil of any engine is to remove impurities that
accumulate in the oil (some of which are heavier than the oil, so they are
pulled down by gravity). I would think that draining the oil with gravity
would be more likely to get these impurities out than sucking the oil out
through the top of the engine. Right???

"Mike Berger" wrote in message
...
I'd think so too -- but every oil change business around here uses
a pump now instead of removing the drain plug. Apparently the
practice hasn't caused any damage.


How would anybody know if damage was caused or not? If there are impurities
in engine oil (and there always are, even immediately after an oil change),
this is rather unlikely to cause an engine to fail. More likely, over time,
it will cause the engine to lose compression / wear out faster than if the
oil had a lower level of impurities. So if your engine wears out at 150K
(for example), how are you going to know that it would have lasted another
50K or 100K if the oil was changed differently?

I think it's better to get as many impurities out of the oil as possible. I
also think that allowing gravity to drain the oil is more likely to get more
of the impurities out. But that's my opinion, for what it's worth.
(probably not much, ha ha) -Dave

In article ws.net, "Ted B." wrote:

The problem is in the oil draining procedure. MTD includes an oil drain
sleeve to snap onto the B/S engine to use to drain the oil. But there are
three problems with this oil drain sleeve. First, because the oil drain
sleeve sits on a metal plate, it is HORIZONTAL when installed on the engine
(remember fluids like to flow downhill). Second, the oil drain sleeve does
not make a tight seal with the engine. Third, the oil drain sleeve is not
nearly long enough to move oil away from the tractor. Bottom line, if you
follow the oil change instructions to the letter, you will have a huge mess
on your hands.

Drain the oil. You're going to have a mess - ONCE. Then visit your friendly
neighborhood hardware store, drain plug in hand, and buy a black-steel pipe
nipple with the same thread size as the drain plug, and long enough to extend
past the edge of the mower. You're probably looking for 3/8" pipe, by maybe 6"
long. Get a threaded cap, too. Thread the nipple into the hole where the drain
plug goes, and the cap over the other end of the nipple. Throw the plug in the
trash. Refill the oil sump.

Next time you change oil, put a pan under the pipe nipple and take the cap
off. No mess.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 11:18:30 -0400, someone wrote:


I think it's better to get as many impurities out of the oil as possible. I
also think that allowing gravity to drain the oil is more likely to get more
of the impurities out.

If the impurities are suspended in the oil, they will come out whether
the oil is sucked or flows. If they are not suspended, they are not
coming out either way. There is not enough "head" nor enough volume
of flow, to "wash out" any big chunks. Never mind just the horizontal
distance of the drain plug, how about the horizontal distances INSIDE
the engine itself.

But I don't really get OP's almost pedantic fear about propping up one
side of the tractor so it drains better. What's the big deal. If he
can't figure out how to drive it onto a board or ramp "safely" then he
should be driving it to begin with.


Reply to NG only - this e.mail address goes to a kill file.

On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 10:22:20 -0400, someone wrote:


.... I was happy to find a Troy-Bilt
"Pony" (779) at Lowe's for a thousand bucks. For those who don't know, this
is manufactured by MTD, the same company that makes the ultra high-end Cub
Cadet lawn tractors. See:

I am appalled to hear how far the Troy-Bilt brand has sunk. It used
to actually be made in Troy (NY) and they had some rugged stuff,
especially rear tine garden tillers.

MTD is well known for making cheep cheep like the little bird said
house-brand and generic stuff for sale by whoever. I have an MTD
mower that came with several different stickers so that it could be
made into several different brands! The phrase "high end" and "MTD"
should never come together. If they make anything for Cub, I gotta
believe it is the same low end "economy" level they are apparently
making as "Troy Bilt" for Lowe's.

Jeez, you buy a tractor for $1k at Lowe's, how could you think it has
any association with anything "high end", and OF COURSE it is poorly
designed - they just want it ti be cheap to make. So put an extension
on your drain plug, tilt the tractor by driving one side up on a
couple of boards, and have at it.


Reply to NG only - this e.mail address goes to a kill file.

Drain the oil. You're going to have a mess - ONCE. Then visit your
friendly
neighborhood hardware store, drain plug in hand, and buy a black-steel
pipe
nipple with the same thread size as the drain plug, and long enough to
extend
past the edge of the mower. You're probably looking for 3/8" pipe, by
maybe 6"
long. Get a threaded cap, too. Thread the nipple into the hole where the
drain
plug goes, and the cap over the other end of the nipple. Throw the plug in
the
trash. Refill the oil sump.

Next time you change oil, put a pan under the pipe nipple and take the cap
off. No mess.


Not a bad idea. I'd need a pipe at least 2' long though (the oil drain
sleeve is about a foot long, but way too short to clear the tractor). Also,
I'd have to drill a hole in the side panel of the tractor (not a big deal).
It could work. Now the question is, if you thought of it, how did the
engineers at MTD NOT think of it? -Dave

In article ws.net, "Ted B." wrote:


Drain the oil. You're going to have a mess - ONCE. Then visit your
friendly neighborhood hardware store, drain plug in hand, and buy a black-steel
pipe nipple with the same thread size as the drain plug, and long enough to
extend past the edge of the mower. You're probably looking for 3/8" pipe, by
maybe 6" long. Get a threaded cap, too. Thread the nipple into the hole where the
drain plug goes, and the cap over the other end of the nipple. Throw the plug in
the trash. Refill the oil sump.

Next time you change oil, put a pan under the pipe nipple and take the cap
off. No mess.

Not a bad idea. I'd need a pipe at least 2' long though (the oil drain
sleeve is about a foot long, but way too short to clear the tractor). Also,
I'd have to drill a hole in the side panel of the tractor (not a big deal).

With a short piece of pipe, an elbow, and another short piece of pipe, you
might be able to bring it out on the bottom of the mower. You'll still have to
do some drilling, though.

It could work. Now the question is, if you thought of it, how did the
engineers at MTD NOT think of it? -Dave

Because they're idiots?

Seriously, though... they probably did think about it, and decided not to.
Adding the pipe and cap would cost several dollars extra per mower, vs. a few
cents per unit for the plastic sleeve. Several dollars per mower times a
coupla million mowers equals some pretty heavy money. If you buy the pipe
instead of them, it's better for their bottom line - and once you find out you
need it, they already have your money.

IMO, though, this is pretty short-sighted thinking... 'cause I'll bet that you
won't buy another MTD mower when this one wears out in another year or two.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

In article ,
Doug Miller wrote:

Drain the oil. You're going to have a mess - ONCE. Then visit your friendly
neighborhood hardware store, drain plug in hand, and buy a black-steel pipe
nipple with the same thread size as the drain plug, and long enough to extend
past the edge of the mower. You're probably looking for 3/8" pipe, by maybe 6"
long. Get a threaded cap, too. Thread the nipple into the hole where the drain
plug goes, and the cap over the other end of the nipple. Throw the plug in the
trash. Refill the oil sump.

Next time you change oil, put a pan under the pipe nipple and take the cap
off. No mess.

Good idea Doug. I would suggest adding a street ell on the end of the
added nipple with the open end directed down and then capped. Less
potential mess on the nipple threads.

Caution: Don't add the ell if this would reduce ground clearance to an
unaccaptable level.

--
Rich Greenberg Marietta, GA, USA richgr atsign panix.com + 1 770 321 6507
Eastern time. N6LRT I speak for myself & my dogs only. VM'er since CP-67
Canines:Val, Red & Shasta (RIP),Red, husky Owner:Chinook-L
Atlanta Siberian Husky Rescue. www.panix.com/~richgr/ Asst Owner:Sibernet-L

Mike Berger wrote:

I'd think so too -- but every oil change business around here uses
a pump now instead of removing the drain plug. Apparently the
practice hasn't caused any damage.

Modern oils are designed to keep internal crud in suspension or caught in the
filter. As long as you get the majority of oil out of the crankcase, you haven't
anything to worry about. Given the number of loose or over tightened drainplugs
from minimum wage lube lane droids, not touching them is probably a good thing.

Oil change before last I had the local 30 minute place do as I was in a hurry
and didn't have time to do it myself. A few weeks ago, I put the vehicle up on
ramps and did it myself. I had to actually go get a breaker bar to loosen the
drain plug. They must have been microns away from cracking the oil pan. Can you
say ****ed?

Ted B. wrote in message
eenews.net...
A few months ago, we bought a house in New York with over 2 acres of
landscaped yard. Obviously, I needed a lawn tractor to care for it, but I
didn't want to spend too much money on it. I was happy to find a
Troy-Bilt
"Pony" (779) at Lowe's for a thousand bucks. For those who don't know,
this
is manufactured by MTD, the same company that makes the ultra high-end Cub
Cadet lawn tractors. See:

http://www.mtdproducts.com/home.jsp

Overall, this Troy-Bilt "Pony" works pretty well. If it lasts a few
years,
I'll be happy with it. But it has a design flaw (IMHO) which MTD is not
willing to acknowledge.

The oil drain plug of the Briggs/Stratton engine sits right on top of a
horizontal metal panel.

I use a plastic funnel that has a flexible tube that's about a foot and a
half long attached to it.
These are available at WalMart or any auto parts store for about a dollar
fifty.
Wedge the funnel under the drain plug, run the tube to your catch pan and
have at it.
Works great.

"v" wrote

I am appalled to hear how far the Troy-Bilt brand has sunk. It used
to actually be made in Troy (NY) and they had some rugged stuff,
especially rear tine garden tillers.

You hit the nail on the head.


MTD is well known for making cheep cheep like the little bird said
house-brand and generic stuff for sale by whoever. I have an MTD
mower that came with several different stickers so that it could be
made into several different brands! The phrase "high end" and "MTD"
should never come together. If they make anything for Cub, I gotta
believe it is the same low end "economy" level they are apparently
making as "Troy Bilt" for Lowe's.

I believe most people are unaware, that the box stores have items made to
their specifications. They truly believe they are getting the same quality
as if they purchased at an authorized dealer.


Jeez, you buy a tractor for $1k at Lowe's, how could you think it has
any association with anything "high end", and OF COURSE it is poorly
designed - they just want it ti be cheap to make.

Exactly.

Ted B. wrote:
A few months ago, we bought a house in New York with over 2 acres of
landscaped yard. Obviously, I needed a lawn tractor to care for it, but I
didn't want to spend too much money on it. I was happy to find a Troy-Bilt
"Pony" (779) at Lowe's for a thousand bucks. For those who don't know, this
is manufactured by MTD, the same company that makes the ultra high-end Cub
Cadet lawn tractors. See:

http://www.mtdproducts.com/home.jsp

Overall, this Troy-Bilt "Pony" works pretty well. If it lasts a few years,
I'll be happy with it. But it has a design flaw (IMHO) which MTD is not
willing to acknowledge.

The oil drain plug of the Briggs/Stratton engine sits right on top of a
horizontal metal panel.

The service requirements for this engine call for the oil to be changed
after the first 5 hours of use, and then at certain intervals after that.
(depending partly on how it is used)

The instructions for changing the oil are in the Lawn Tractor's owner's
manual, page 19. It does not say that you have to remove the side panel to
drain the oil, but it does say that you might have to remove a side-panel to
replace an oil filter. Anyway, you have to remove the (right) side panel of
the tractor to change the oil, even though there is no oil filter. That's a
minor thing, nothing to bitch about. Just pop off four bolts and the side
panel is off.

The problem is in the oil draining procedure. MTD includes an oil drain
sleeve to snap onto the B/S engine to use to drain the oil. But there are
three problems with this oil drain sleeve. First, because the oil drain
sleeve sits on a metal plate, it is HORIZONTAL when installed on the engine
(remember fluids like to flow downhill). Second, the oil drain sleeve does
not make a tight seal with the engine. Third, the oil drain sleeve is not
nearly long enough to move oil away from the tractor. Bottom line, if you
follow the oil change instructions to the letter, you will have a huge mess
on your hands. With the oil drain sleeve sitting level, oil pools up on the
oil drain sleeve, and then seeps between the oil drain sleeve and the
engine. (because there is not a tight seal) So the oil doesn't drain as it
should. This is ignoring the fact that if it DID drain, there is nowhere to
place a container to catch it. I tried to use a oil change pan (what else?)
to drain the oil into. BUT, there is not nearly enough space for an oil
change pan between the tractor's cutting deck and the right front wheel, if
you try to place the oil change pan under the end of the too-short oil drain
sleeve. I ended up balancing the oil change pan on the cutting deck and a
block of wood. But this wasn't a great solution, as I had a lot of oil end
up on the ground anyway.(escaping between the oil change sleeve and the
engine)

I brought this matter to the attention of MTD. They replied stating that I
should use an oil siphon to suck the oil out through the fill hole. Well,
that's certainly one solution. But if that's the actual recommended
procedure for changing the oil of the Troy-Bilt lawn tractors, why is that
not in the owner's manual for the Troy-Bilt lawn tractors? Also, the main
reason to change the oil of any engine is to remove impurities that
accumulate in the oil (some of which are heavier than the oil, so they are
pulled down by gravity). I would think that draining the oil with gravity
would be more likely to get these impurities out than sucking the oil out
through the top of the engine. Right???

Well as a last resort I might buy an oil siphon to use that to change the
oil in my lawn tractor. But first I'm going to try propping up the left
side of the tractor a few inches, so that the oil drain sleeve might
actually DRAIN oil. (This might not be real safe, unless the wheels are
firmly chocked) I'm not sure this will be good for the engine. I'll have
to see how much oil actually comes out. There is supposed to be about 48
ounces of oil in the engine. I got -just- over a quart out of it following
the recommended oil change procedure as written in the lawn tractor's
owner's manual. (actually, I'm not sure how much came out, as I couldn't
measure what was spilled on the ground)

Anyway, I tried googling to see if anyone else had this problem, but I came
up with no hits. It's hard for me to believe that I'm the first Troy-Bilt
lawn tractor owner who has had a problem changing the oil, considering that
the proper procedure for doing so is not even in the owner's manual. Is
everyone else hiring somebody to change the oil in their lawn tractors? Or
are they just not changing the oil? We do have a neighbor who does
small-engine repair professionally out of his own house. But, I don't see
the sense in hiring somebody to do a job that should take about 10 minutes
and ~5 bucks worth of materials (some full synthetic 10W30, a little over a
quart)

Just thought I'd let people know that if they want to buy a Troy-Bilt lawn
tractor (or the Pony, at least . . . I wonder if the other models have the
same problem?), the maintenance of the engine is a little harder than the
instructions written in the lawn tractor owner's manual might lead you to
believe. This is not a major gripe. Overall, as I said before, the Pony is
pretty decent. It gets the job done. It's a real pain to change the oil,
though. -Dave

No news to me. I went through the same mess the first time I changed
it. I then fixed it. Inserted a short nipple to let it drain past the
frame member. Yes, it is a tight fit but can be done. Should have
been done at the factory.
Took me a few tries to get the nipple the right length. Amazing how
much stuff gets in the way there.

Harry K

In article , (Rich Greenberg) wrote:
In article ,
Doug Miller wrote:

Drain the oil. You're going to have a mess - ONCE. Then visit your friendly
neighborhood hardware store, drain plug in hand, and buy a black-steel pipe
nipple with the same thread size as the drain plug, and long enough to extend
past the edge of the mower. You're probably looking for 3/8" pipe, by maybe 6"
long. Get a threaded cap, too. Thread the nipple into the hole where the drain
plug goes, and the cap over the other end of the nipple. Throw the plug in the
trash. Refill the oil sump.

Next time you change oil, put a pan under the pipe nipple and take the cap
off. No mess.

Good idea Doug. I would suggest adding a street ell on the end of the
added nipple with the open end directed down and then capped. Less
potential mess on the nipple threads.

Ahhh, even better! I think I'll do that on my mower (John Deere STX-38, which
suffered from the same problem as the OP's MTD). Thanks!

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

Seriously, though... they probably did think about it, and decided not to.
Adding the pipe and cap would cost several dollars extra per mower, vs. a
few
cents per unit for the plastic sleeve. Several dollars per mower times a
coupla million mowers equals some pretty heavy money. If you buy the pipe
instead of them, it's better for their bottom line - and once you find out
you
need it, they already have your money.

IMO, though, this is pretty short-sighted thinking... 'cause I'll bet that
you
won't buy another MTD mower when this one wears out in another year or
two.


I don't know about that. I mean, I'll be happy if it lasts three years.
Any longer than that will be icing. I know one thing for darned sure
though: The next lawn tractor I buy, regardless of who makes it, I'm going
to find the oil drain plug in the store before I buy it. If it's in a very
awkward position (like the Troy-Bilt Pony's Briggs/Stratton oil drain plug
is), I will read the owner's manual to make sure that the oil change
procedure is (at least) properly documented. That is, even if it's a pain
in the butt to change the oil on a lawn tractor, I figure the LEAST the
manufacturer could do is be honest about it in the owner's manual. In the
case of the Troy-Bilt Pony, the actual recommended procedure for changing
the oil is not even IN the owner's manual. There is no excuse for that,
IMHO -Dave

In article ws.net, "Ted B." wrote:
I don't know about that. I mean, I'll be happy if it lasts three years.
Any longer than that will be icing.

You paid a THOUSAND DOLLARS for it, and you'll be happy if it lasts THREE
YEARS???

When this one wears out, go talk to a John Deere dealer and see what a grand
will buy you in a used lawn tractor. They're much better made.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

You paid a THOUSAND DOLLARS for it, and you'll be happy if it lasts THREE
YEARS???

When this one wears out, go talk to a John Deere dealer and see what a
grand
will buy you in a used lawn tractor. They're much better made.


Well, at a thousand bucks, how long would -you- expect it to last? If I'd
wanted something to last longer, I'd have probably paid about three thousand
for something decent. But even at that price point, it's still a lawn
tractor. You can't expect it to hold up as well as an automobile might,
considering the usage conditions. (severe, in the extreme) -Dave

In article ws.net, "Ted B." wrote:
You paid a THOUSAND DOLLARS for it, and you'll be happy if it lasts THREE
YEARS???

When this one wears out, go talk to a John Deere dealer and see what a
grand
will buy you in a used lawn tractor. They're much better made.


Well, at a thousand bucks, how long would -you- expect it to last?

Twice that long, at least. It's not like they get used a whole lot - four
hours or so a week is heavy usage for a lawnmower. Times six months, that's
about a hundred hours a year.

If I'd
wanted something to last longer, I'd have probably paid about three thousand
for something decent. But even at that price point, it's still a lawn
tractor. You can't expect it to hold up as well as an automobile might,
considering the usage conditions. (severe, in the extreme) -Dave

I certainly expect them to have a longer lifetime than three hundred hours of
operation.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

Twice that long, at least. It's not like they get used a whole lot - four
hours or so a week is heavy usage for a lawnmower. Times six months,
that's
about a hundred hours a year.


Or about 6000 miles a year, if it was an automobile. Of course, your
average automobile isn't driven in extreme dusty conditions, OFF-ROAD, with
the engine at REDLINE* constantly. If it was, then 3000 miles a year
might kill it in just 2 or 3 years.

But then, this is my first lawn tractor. It might surprise me and last
longer than I expect it will. If not, no biggie. A thousand or so every
few years won't kill me. -Dave

*One thing that makes me think a lawn tractor might not last long is that
the engine is used at full throttle the entire time that the tractor is in
use. This seems to be common for most of the lawn tractors I looked at.
For an air-cooled engine especially, that has got to be TORTURE. It
requires full synthetic oil, as regular oil would probably burn up in no
time under such abuse.

In article ws.net, "Ted B." wrote:
Twice that long, at least. It's not like they get used a whole lot - four
hours or so a week is heavy usage for a lawnmower. Times six months,
that's
about a hundred hours a year.


Or about 6000 miles a year, if it was an automobile.

You must drive pretty darn fast, if you can *average* 60mph over 6000 miles.

Let's be realistic, shall we? A hundred hours of operation in the average
automobile is more like ten to twelve thousand miles. If you live in a place
with heavy traffic, more than tha - maybe *much* more.

[snip]

*One thing that makes me think a lawn tractor might not last long is that
the engine is used at full throttle the entire time that the tractor is in
use. This seems to be common for most of the lawn tractors I looked at.
For an air-cooled engine especially, that has got to be TORTURE. It
requires full synthetic oil, as regular oil would probably burn up in no
time under such abuse.

Not if you change it regularly...

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

In article ,
says...
In article ws.net, "Ted B." wrote:
Twice that long, at least. It's not like they get used a whole lot - four
hours or so a week is heavy usage for a lawnmower. Times six months,
that's
about a hundred hours a year.


Or about 6000 miles a year, if it was an automobile.

You must drive pretty darn fast, if you can *average* 60mph over 6000 miles.

This part's ok...

Let's be realistic, shall we? A hundred hours of operation in the average
automobile is more like ten to twelve thousand miles. If you live in a place
with heavy traffic, more than tha - maybe *much* more.

That didn't make a lot of sense, did it? ROTFLMAO at myself... [memo to
self: engage brain before typing] Obviously thinking "hours" when I meant
"miles" and vice-versa. Or not thinking at all...

Let me try again.

A hundred hours of operation in the average automobile is more like three
thousand miles. If you live in an area with heavy traffic, less, maybe
much less. Six thousand miles operation is more like *two* hundred hours,
not one, and in areas with heavy traffic, more than that, maybe much
more.

There. That's what I meant.

Hope everyone enjoyed a good laugh at my expense. Have a nice day!