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Default How can you possibly fall off a self balancing scooter?

I tried one, once, I couldn't stay on it. I see countless Youtube videos of people falling off them. But why? If you are about to fall over backwards, shouldn't it feel the tilt of your feet and simply roll under your centre of gravity? It should be impossible to fall off.
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Default How can you possibly fall off a self balancing scooter?

Commander Kinsey wrote:
I tried one, once, I couldn't stay on it. I see countless Youtube
videos of people falling off them. But why? If you are about to
fall over backwards, shouldn't it feel the tilt of your feet and
simply roll under your centre of gravity? It should be impossible to
fall off.


**** off Hucker.


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Default How can you possibly fall off a self balancing scooter?



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
I tried one, once, I couldn't stay on it. I see countless Youtube videos
of people falling off them. But why? If you are about to fall over
backwards, shouldn't it feel the tilt of your feet and simply roll under
your centre of gravity?


Not possible with your feet still on it.

It should be impossible to fall off.


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Default How can you possibly fall off a self balancing scooter?

On 1/24/2019 3:07 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
I tried one, once, I couldn't stay on it.* I see countless Youtube videos of people falling off them.* But why?* If you are about to fall over backwards, shouldn't it feel the tilt of your feet and simply roll under your centre of gravity?* It should
be impossible to fall off.



Half the people on the planet are below average IQ so are incapable of riding a self balancing scooter.

For the double-digit IQ crowd there is the Teknique HD6 powered wheelchair.

https://www.hoveround.com/mobility-s...y/teknique-hd6 .

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Default How can you possibly fall off a self balancing scooter?

On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 20:36:47 -0000, Mr Pounder Esquire wrote:

Commander Kinsey wrote:
I tried one, once, I couldn't stay on it. I see countless Youtube
videos of people falling off them. But why? If you are about to
fall over backwards, shouldn't it feel the tilt of your feet and
simply roll under your centre of gravity? It should be impossible to
fall off.


**** off Hucker.


I'm sorry, was the question too difficult for you?


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Default How can you possibly fall off a self balancing scooter?

On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 20:43:14 -0000, Steven wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
I tried one, once, I couldn't stay on it. I see countless Youtube videos
of people falling off them. But why? If you are about to fall over
backwards, shouldn't it feel the tilt of your feet and simply roll under
your centre of gravity?


Not possible with your feet still on it.


What isn't possible? It moving under you or you falling off it?

It should be impossible to fall off.


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Default How can you possibly fall off a self balancing scooter?

On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 20:47:28 -0000, Romera Etafodor wrote:

On 1/24/2019 3:07 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
I tried one, once, I couldn't stay on it. I see countless Youtube videos of people falling off them. But why? If you are about to fall over backwards, shouldn't it feel the tilt of your feet and simply roll under your centre of gravity? It should
be impossible to fall off.



Half the people on the planet are below average IQ so are incapable of riding a self balancing scooter.

For the double-digit IQ crowd there is the Teknique HD6 powered wheelchair.

https://www.hoveround.com/mobility-s...y/teknique-hd6 .


My point was why does the rider need any skill whatsoever? The device should move under your centre of gravity automatically. Perhaps they have to be calibrated, and people falling off are borrowing someone else's of a different height or weight?
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Default CAUTION!!! Birdbrain, the Abnormal Pathological Attention Whore, Strikes, AGAIN!

On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 20:07:03 -0000, Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson",
"Steven ******","Bruce Farquar", "Fred Johnson, etc.), the pathological
resident idiot and attention whore of all the uk ngs, blathered again:

FLUSH the abnormal sociopathic attention whore's latest idiotic
attention-baiting sick bull**** unread again

--
about Birdbrain Macaw's (now "James Wilkinson" LOL)
trolling:
"He is a well known attention seeking troll and every reply you
make feeds him.
Starts many threads most of which die quick as on the UK groups anyone
with sense Kill filed him ages ago which is why he now cross posts to
the US groups for a new audience.
This thread was unusual in that it derived and continued without him
to a large extent and his silly questioning is an attempt to get
noticed again."
MID:

--
ItsJoanNotJoann addressing Birdbrain Macaw's (now "James Wilkinson" LOL):
"You're an annoying troll and I'm done with you and your
stupidity."
MID:

--
AndyW addressing Birdbrain:
"Troll or idiot?...
You have been presented with a viewpoint with information, reasoning,
historical cases, citations and references to back it up and wilfully
ignore all going back to your idea which has no supporting information."
MID:

--
Phil Lee adressing Birdbrain Macaw:
"You are too stupid to be wasting oxygen."
MID:

--
Phil Lee describing Birdbrain Macaw:
"I've never seen such misplaced pride in being a ****ing moronic motorist."
MID:

--
Tony944 addressing Birdbrain Macaw:
"I seen and heard many people but you are on top of list being first class
ass hole jerk. ...You fit under unconditional Idiot and should be put in
mental institution.
MID:

--
Pelican to Birdbrain Macaw:
"Ok. I'm persuaded . You are an idiot."
MID:

--
DerbyDad03 addressing Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson" LOL):
"Frigging Idiot. Get the hell out of my thread."
MID:

--
Kerr Mudd-John about Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson" LOL):
"It's like arguing with a demented frog."
MID:

--
Mr Pounder Esquire about Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson" LOL):
"the **** poor delivery boy with no hot running water, 11 cats and
several parrots living in his hovel."
MID:

--
Rob Morley about Birdbrain:
"He's a perennial idiot"
MID: 20170519215057.56a1f1d4@Mars

--
JoeyDee to Birdbrain
"I apologize for thinking you were a jerk. You're just someone with an IQ
lower than your age, and I accept that as a reason for your comments."
MID: l-september.org

--
Sam Plusnet about Birdbrain (now "James Wilkinson Sword" LOL):
"He's just desperate to be noticed. Any attention will do, no matter how
negative it may be."
MID:

--
asking Birdbrain:
"What, were you dropped on your head as a child?"
MID:

--
Christie addressing endlessly driveling Birdbrain Macaw (now "James
Wilkinson" LOL):
"What are you resurrecting that old post of mine for? It's from last
month some time. You're like a dog who's just dug up an old bone they
hid in the garden until they were ready to have another go at it."
MID:

--
Mr Pounder's fitting description of Birdbrain Macaw:
"You are a well known fool, a tosser, a pillock, a stupid unemployable
sponging failure who will always live alone and will die alone. You will not
be missed."
MID:

--
Richard to pathetic ****** Hucker:
"You haven't bred?
Only useful thing you've done in your pathetic existence."
MID:

--
about Birdbrain (now "James Wilkinson" LOL):
""not the sharpest knife in the drawer"'s parents sure made a serious
mistake having him born alive -- A total waste of oxygen, food, space,
and bandwidth."
MID:

--
Mr Pounder exposing sociopathic Birdbrain:
"You will always be a lonely sociopath living in a ******** with no hot
running water with loads of stinking cats and a few parrots."
MID:

--
francis about Birdbrain (now "James Wilkinson" LOL):
"He seems to have a reputation as someone of limited intelligence"
MID:

--
Peter Moylan about Birdbrain (now "James Wilkinson" LOL):
"If people like JWS didn't exist, we would have to find some other way to
explain the concept of "invincible ignorance"."
MID:

--
Lewis about nym-shifting Birdbrain:
"Typical narcissist troll, thinks his **** is so grand he has the right to
try to force it on everyone."
MID:
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Default More Heavy Trolling by Senile Nym-Shifting Rot Speed!

On Fri, 25 Jan 2019 07:43:14 +1100, Steven, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rot Speed, wrote:

Not possible with your feet still on it.


You STILL haven't learned you lesson, you disgusting piece of **** troll
from Oz! Just wait and see now, you subnormal cretin!

--
FredXX to Rot Speed:
"You are still an idiot and an embarrassment to your country. No wonder
we shippe the likes of you out of the British Isles. Perhaps stupidity
and criminality is inherited after all?"
Message-ID:

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Default How can you possibly fall off a self balancing scooter?



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 20:43:14 -0000, Steven wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
I tried one, once, I couldn't stay on it. I see countless Youtube
videos
of people falling off them. But why? If you are about to fall over
backwards, shouldn't it feel the tilt of your feet and simply roll under
your centre of gravity?


Not possible with your feet still on it.


What isn't possible? It moving under you or you falling off it?


"simply roll under your centre of gravity" while ever your feet are still on
it.

It should be impossible to fall off.




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Default Troll-feeding Senile IDIOT Alert!

On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 15:47:28 -0500, Romera Etafodor, another mentally
deficient, troll-feeding senile idiot, blathered:


Half the people on the planet are below average IQ so are incapable of
riding a self balancing scooter.


....and so are obviously you, you troll-feeding senile idiot!
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Default How can you possibly fall off a self balancing scooter?

"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
I tried one, once, I couldn't stay on it. I see countless Youtube videos
of people falling off them. But why? If you are about to fall over
backwards, shouldn't it feel the tilt of your feet and simply roll under
your centre of gravity? It should be impossible to fall off.


Is this two wheels inline (like a bicycle) or two wheels side by side on the
same axis (a Segway)?

I had chance to ride a Segway through Corunna in Portugal on an organised
tour. It took a few minutes of riding on the flat before I felt sort-of
confident, and then when I thought I was doing OK I had to do an emergency
stop, over-corrected and fell off. The trickiest part was getting on or off;
once I was on and balanced, I was fine. After about half an hour I felt
pretty confident: the guide took us through streets that had a lot of
pedestrians (but no cars!) and I was able to ride safely around them. When
we stopped for a rest and to let the slower ones catch up, I managed to make
the Segway turn about its midpoint, with one wheel going forwards and the
other one going backwards.

The Segway does have a big advantage over things like this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:R...ding_on_it.png
in that it has a handlebar that you can hold onto and move from side to side
to steer. Steering purely by adjusting your weight on the two footrests
presumably takes a bit more practice.

Now all we need is for our H&S-obsessed government to license Segways for
use on either pavements or roads (whichever they choose): why do other
countries think they are OK (as long as people are responsible) whereas in
Britain the attitude is "no way - not *anywhere* that isn't your own private
land".

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Default How can you possibly fall off a self balancing scooter?

"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 20:47:28 -0000, Romera Etafodor
wrote:

On 1/24/2019 3:07 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
I tried one, once, I couldn't stay on it. I see countless Youtube
videos of people falling off them. But why? If you are about to fall
over backwards, shouldn't it feel the tilt of your feet and simply roll
under your centre of gravity? It should
be impossible to fall off.



Half the people on the planet are below average IQ so are incapable of
riding a self balancing scooter.

For the double-digit IQ crowd there is the Teknique HD6 powered
wheelchair.

https://www.hoveround.com/mobility-s...y/teknique-hd6 .


My point was why does the rider need any skill whatsoever? The device
should move under your centre of gravity automatically. Perhaps they have
to be calibrated, and people falling off are borrowing someone else's of a
different height or weight?


I wonder whether a lot of the problems with people falling off are that they
are scared when they tilt too far, and instinctively try to correct by
adjusting their position instead of standing still and letting the scooter
do the adjustments to keep you level, or else they panic and jump off.

I probably went through all those stages in the first 30 mins of getting on
a Segway for the first time. But after a while you develop and refine the
muscle memory to work out just how much you need to move to stay level and
not to "fight the machine" - similar to the skills you acquire when you
learn to ride a bike.

I'd be interested to see if now, two years after my one and only chance to
ride a Segway, I'd take less time to adjust to it again. Is it like riding a
bike, I wonder: once you've learned, it always comes back to you, even if
you haven't ridden for many years.

As regards riding a different Segway, yes, I found it does make a
difference. My wife and I were given different sizes/models of Segway,
appropriate to our height and weight, and even after I was pretty damn good
on the one I'd been given, I had great difficulty when I borrowed my wife's
to try it - presumably different sensitivity and amount of motor correction
that I would have to adjust to.

It's a skill that has to be learned: it's a myth that you can get on one
having never ridden it before and immediately manage to stay on in all
circumstances. But it doesn't take long to acquire the skill. The route that
our tour guide took us on started with straight, level paths, then gradually
introduced gradients (it was great fun to lean right forward and go bombing
up a hill to the Roman Lighthouse in Corunna), and by then end of our time,
he took us through streets in the town centre where there were lots of
people that we had to avoid. Going over cobbles and raised manhole covers
was "interesting". No pedestrians were harmed :-)

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Default More Heavy Trolling by Senile Nym-Shifting Rot Speed!

On Fri, 25 Jan 2019 08:26:37 +1100, Steven, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rot Speed, wrote:



"simply roll under your centre of gravity" while ever your feet are still on
it.


YOU'd better soon roll under your gravestone, VERY soon, you 85-year-old
senile pest!

--
Sqwertz to Rot Speed:
"This is just a hunch, but I'm betting you're kinda an argumentative
asshole.
MID:
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Default Troll-feeding Senile IDIOT Alert!

On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 21:42:09 -0000, NY, the brain damaged, notorious,
troll-feeding senile idiot, babbled again:


Is this two wheels inline (like a bicycle) or two wheels side by side on the
same axis (a Segway)?


Oh, no, another lonely senile fool who is thankful that some attention
starved troll keeps setting out idiotic baits the likes of him! tsk

FLUSH the rest of the usual senile ****


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Default How can you possibly fall off a self balancing scooter?

On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 21:26:37 -0000, Steven wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 20:43:14 -0000, Steven wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
I tried one, once, I couldn't stay on it. I see countless Youtube
videos
of people falling off them. But why? If you are about to fall over
backwards, shouldn't it feel the tilt of your feet and simply roll under
your centre of gravity?

Not possible with your feet still on it.


What isn't possible? It moving under you or you falling off it?


"simply roll under your centre of gravity" while ever your feet are still on
it.


Why would that not be possible? Let's say you're stood stationary and upright on it, not moving. Now, you lose your balance a little and begin to fall over backwards. Your feet tilt backwards, the device senses this, and moves backwards. You're now still over the device and don't fall off it. The more you tilt over, the faster it goes, moving your feet so they're under your centre of gravity, thus you don't fall.
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Default How can you possibly fall off a self balancing scooter?

On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 21:42:09 -0000, NY wrote:

"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
I tried one, once, I couldn't stay on it. I see countless Youtube videos
of people falling off them. But why? If you are about to fall over
backwards, shouldn't it feel the tilt of your feet and simply roll under
your centre of gravity? It should be impossible to fall off.


Is this two wheels inline (like a bicycle) or two wheels side by side on the
same axis (a Segway)?


Like a segway but without the handle. Exactly like the thing you linked to below: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:R...ding_on_it.png

I had chance to ride a Segway through Corunna in Portugal on an organised
tour. It took a few minutes of riding on the flat before I felt sort-of
confident, and then when I thought I was doing OK I had to do an emergency
stop, over-corrected and fell off. The trickiest part was getting on or off;
once I was on and balanced, I was fine. After about half an hour I felt
pretty confident: the guide took us through streets that had a lot of
pedestrians (but no cars!) and I was able to ride safely around them. When
we stopped for a rest and to let the slower ones catch up, I managed to make
the Segway turn about its midpoint, with one wheel going forwards and the
other one going backwards.


I thought Segways, like the scooter I described, were automatic? It simply shouldn't be possible to fall off them.

The Segway does have a big advantage over things like this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:R...ding_on_it.png
in that it has a handlebar that you can hold onto and move from side to side
to steer. Steering purely by adjusting your weight on the two footrests
presumably takes a bit more practice.

Now all we need is for our H&S-obsessed government to license Segways for
use on either pavements or roads (whichever they choose): why do other
countries think they are OK (as long as people are responsible) whereas in
Britain the attitude is "no way - not *anywhere* that isn't your own private
land".


It may be a law, but it's not enforced by anyone but the dumbest and most OCD of policemen. And since most of them are ridden by kids, what are they going to do? Jail the kids?

In the same way, it's technically illegal to ride a bicycle on the pavement in the UK. But you never get done for it. I mean I could injure you just as badly by running into you as cycling into you. I can run as fast as the average cyclist.
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Default How can you possibly fall off a self balancing scooter?

On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 21:57:01 -0000, NY wrote:

"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 20:47:28 -0000, Romera Etafodor
wrote:

On 1/24/2019 3:07 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
I tried one, once, I couldn't stay on it. I see countless Youtube
videos of people falling off them. But why? If you are about to fall
over backwards, shouldn't it feel the tilt of your feet and simply roll
under your centre of gravity? It should
be impossible to fall off.


Half the people on the planet are below average IQ so are incapable of
riding a self balancing scooter.

For the double-digit IQ crowd there is the Teknique HD6 powered
wheelchair.

https://www.hoveround.com/mobility-s...y/teknique-hd6 .


My point was why does the rider need any skill whatsoever? The device
should move under your centre of gravity automatically. Perhaps they have
to be calibrated, and people falling off are borrowing someone else's of a
different height or weight?


I wonder whether a lot of the problems with people falling off are that they
are scared when they tilt too far, and instinctively try to correct by
adjusting their position instead of standing still and letting the scooter
do the adjustments to keep you level, or else they panic and jump off.


When I tried one, when I lost my balance it appeared to scoot off in the wrong direction - eg I fell over backwards and the scooter went forwards. No idea why - it should have been trying to power itself backwards underneath me.

I probably went through all those stages in the first 30 mins of getting on
a Segway for the first time. But after a while you develop and refine the
muscle memory to work out just how much you need to move to stay level and
not to "fight the machine" - similar to the skills you acquire when you
learn to ride a bike.


But with a bike, you have to balance, with these devices surely they should be doing the balancing for you? You should never actually fall over, because no matter what you do, it moves under you.

I'd be interested to see if now, two years after my one and only chance to
ride a Segway, I'd take less time to adjust to it again. Is it like riding a
bike, I wonder: once you've learned, it always comes back to you, even if
you haven't ridden for many years.


Maybe they've improved? Apparently the one that a cameraman used and crashed into Usain Bolt was not a genuine Segway - there must be cheaper badly made versions.

As regards riding a different Segway, yes, I found it does make a
difference. My wife and I were given different sizes/models of Segway,
appropriate to our height and weight, and even after I was pretty damn good
on the one I'd been given, I had great difficulty when I borrowed my wife's
to try it - presumably different sensitivity and amount of motor correction
that I would have to adjust to.


I've read something about the scooter versions requiring "calibration" - perhaps to your height and weight? So if you just jump on someone else's, it won't work too well.

It's a skill that has to be learned: it's a myth that you can get on one
having never ridden it before and immediately manage to stay on in all
circumstances. But it doesn't take long to acquire the skill. The route that
our tour guide took us on started with straight, level paths, then gradually
introduced gradients (it was great fun to lean right forward and go bombing
up a hill to the Roman Lighthouse in Corunna), and by then end of our time,
he took us through streets in the town centre where there were lots of
people that we had to avoid. Going over cobbles and raised manhole covers
was "interesting". No pedestrians were harmed :-)


In my experience, an adult cannot use a scooter version. Only kids. Adults lack the balance skills, no matter how hard they try. Kids just get on and go with no practice whatsoever. I guess our brains don't work once we "grow up".
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Default Troll-feeding Senile IDIOT Alert!

On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 21:57:01 -0000, NY, the brain damaged, notorious,
troll-feeding senile idiot, babbled again:


I wonder


FLUSH another HUGE load of the usual senile drivel unread
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Default How can you possibly fall off a self balancing scooter?

"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 21:57:01 -0000, NY wrote:

"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
My point was why does the rider need any skill whatsoever? The device
should move under your centre of gravity automatically. Perhaps they
have
to be calibrated, and people falling off are borrowing someone else's of
a
different height or weight?


I wonder whether a lot of the problems with people falling off are that
they
are scared when they tilt too far, and instinctively try to correct by
adjusting their position instead of standing still and letting the
scooter
do the adjustments to keep you level, or else they panic and jump off.


When I tried one, when I lost my balance it appeared to scoot off in the
wrong direction - eg I fell over backwards and the scooter went forwards.
No idea why - it should have been trying to power itself backwards
underneath me.

I probably went through all those stages in the first 30 mins of getting
on
a Segway for the first time. But after a while you develop and refine the
muscle memory to work out just how much you need to move to stay level
and
not to "fight the machine" - similar to the skills you acquire when you
learn to ride a bike.


But with a bike, you have to balance, with these devices surely they
should be doing the balancing for you? You should never actually fall
over, because no matter what you do, it moves under you.


I imagine the control logic has to be very clever because it has to cope
with a human standing on it. If you had a rigid human-sized figure on it,
and you pushed it so it was about to topple over, the logic would easily
correct for this.

Now substitute a real person with knee and hip joints, able to adjust their
own balance sideways and fore/aft, and liable to try to make their own
corrections which may counteract those that the scooter tries to make, and
you've complicated things a lot. A Segway, like a bicycle, is inherently
unstable and needs advanced control logic (whether human or computer!) to
keep it upright and to make corrections. I understand that it has now been
found to be a myth that the gyroscopic effect of the wheels plays much of a
part in keeping a bike upright, and that it's all down to minute adjustments
of the steering.

I wonder how long it will be (if ever!) before the UK allows Segways etc to
be used anywhere other than private property - ie anywhere that the public
might be. We seem to be very backward in allowing them, whereas an unskilled
person on a bicycle or roller skates or one of those bloody mobility
scooters can easily injure a bystander. I still have the bruise on my hip
and my foot where an old biddy reversed into me repeatedly in the
supermarket ("the scooter won't move, so I'll keep trying until it does")
and then drove over my foot. And she had the audacity to swear at *me*, when
I was trying very hard not to swear at *her*. She rode off in a huff and hit
a display stand. Poor woman wasn't safe to have control of a scooter.



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Default Troll-feeding Senile IDIOT Alert!

On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 22:46:36 -0000, NY, the brain damaged, notorious,
troll-feeding senile idiot, babbled again:


I imagine


FLUSH another HUGE load of the usual senile drivel unread
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Default How can you possibly fall off a self balancing scooter?



"NY" wrote in message
o.uk...
"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 20:47:28 -0000, Romera Etafodor
wrote:

On 1/24/2019 3:07 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
I tried one, once, I couldn't stay on it. I see countless Youtube
videos of people falling off them. But why? If you are about to fall
over backwards, shouldn't it feel the tilt of your feet and simply roll
under your centre of gravity? It should
be impossible to fall off.


Half the people on the planet are below average IQ so are incapable of
riding a self balancing scooter.

For the double-digit IQ crowd there is the Teknique HD6 powered
wheelchair.

https://www.hoveround.com/mobility-s...y/teknique-hd6 .


My point was why does the rider need any skill whatsoever? The device
should move under your centre of gravity automatically. Perhaps they
have to be calibrated, and people falling off are borrowing someone
else's of a different height or weight?


I wonder whether a lot of the problems with people falling off are that
they are scared when they tilt too far, and instinctively try to correct
by adjusting their position instead of standing still and letting the
scooter do the adjustments to keep you level, or else they panic and jump
off.

I probably went through all those stages in the first 30 mins of getting
on a Segway for the first time. But after a while you develop and refine
the muscle memory to work out just how much you need to move to stay level
and not to "fight the machine" - similar to the skills you acquire when
you learn to ride a bike.

I'd be interested to see if now, two years after my one and only chance to
ride a Segway, I'd take less time to adjust to it again. Is it like riding
a bike, I wonder: once you've learned, it always comes back to you, even
if you haven't ridden for many years.

As regards riding a different Segway, yes, I found it does make a
difference. My wife and I were given different sizes/models of Segway,
appropriate to our height and weight, and even after I was pretty damn
good on the one I'd been given, I had great difficulty when I borrowed my
wife's to try it - presumably different sensitivity and amount of motor
correction that I would have to adjust to.

It's a skill that has to be learned: it's a myth that you can get on one
having never ridden it before and immediately manage to stay on in all
circumstances. But it doesn't take long to acquire the skill. The route
that our tour guide took us on started with straight, level paths, then
gradually introduced gradients (it was great fun to lean right forward and
go bombing up a hill to the Roman Lighthouse in Corunna), and by then end
of our time, he took us through streets in the town centre where there
were lots of people that we had to avoid. Going over cobbles and raised
manhole covers was "interesting". No pedestrians were harmed :-)


Pity about all the dogs you ran over |-(

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Default How can you possibly fall off a self balancing scooter?



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 21:26:37 -0000, Steven wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 20:43:14 -0000, Steven wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
I tried one, once, I couldn't stay on it. I see countless Youtube
videos
of people falling off them. But why? If you are about to fall over
backwards, shouldn't it feel the tilt of your feet and simply roll
under
your centre of gravity?

Not possible with your feet still on it.

What isn't possible? It moving under you or you falling off it?


"simply roll under your centre of gravity" while ever your feet are still
on
it.


Why would that not be possible?


When say it decides you are falling backwards, and moves back,
while you are standing on it, the complete assembly of you and
the scooter moves back and it doesn't change where it is relative
to the person's center of gravity.

Let's say you're stood stationary and upright on it, not moving. Now, you
lose your balance a little and begin to fall over backwards. Your feet
tilt backwards, the device senses this, and moves backwards. You're now
still over the device


Yes, but it can't move under the center of gravity while your feet are still
on it.

and don't fall off it.


The scooter moving backwards has done nothing to stop you falling backwards.

The more you tilt over, the faster it goes, moving your feet so they're
under your centre of gravity,


That doesn't happen.

thus you don't fall.


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Default How can you possibly fall off a self balancing scooter?

"Steven" wrote in message
...


"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 21:26:37 -0000, Steven wrote:



When say it decides you are falling backwards, and moves back,
while you are standing on it, the complete assembly of you and
the scooter moves back and it doesn't change where it is relative
to the person's center of gravity.

Let's say you're stood stationary and upright on it, not moving. Now,
you lose your balance a little and begin to fall over backwards. Your
feet tilt backwards, the device senses this, and moves backwards. You're
now still over the device


Yes, but it can't move under the center of gravity while your feet are
still on it.


You've forgotten Newton 3: "for every action, there is an equal and opposite
reaction".

It moves the wheels by the motor exerting a torque on them. This causes an
equal and opposite torque on the scooter-and-human, thus moving the person's
C of G relative to the axle until the C of G is once again directly over the
axle. This is how it corrects for the person leaning too far forwards or
backwards.

If the person leans back, the sensors detect that the scooter is tipping
backwards, and rotates the wheels backwards, thus tipping the person
forwards.

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Default How can you possibly fall off a self balancing scooter?

On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 22:46:36 -0000, NY wrote:

"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 21:57:01 -0000, NY wrote:

"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
My point was why does the rider need any skill whatsoever? The device
should move under your centre of gravity automatically. Perhaps they
have
to be calibrated, and people falling off are borrowing someone else's of
a
different height or weight?

I wonder whether a lot of the problems with people falling off are that
they
are scared when they tilt too far, and instinctively try to correct by
adjusting their position instead of standing still and letting the
scooter
do the adjustments to keep you level, or else they panic and jump off.


When I tried one, when I lost my balance it appeared to scoot off in the
wrong direction - eg I fell over backwards and the scooter went forwards.
No idea why - it should have been trying to power itself backwards
underneath me.

I probably went through all those stages in the first 30 mins of getting
on
a Segway for the first time. But after a while you develop and refine the
muscle memory to work out just how much you need to move to stay level
and
not to "fight the machine" - similar to the skills you acquire when you
learn to ride a bike.


But with a bike, you have to balance, with these devices surely they
should be doing the balancing for you? You should never actually fall
over, because no matter what you do, it moves under you.


I imagine the control logic has to be very clever because it has to cope
with a human standing on it. If you had a rigid human-sized figure on it,
and you pushed it so it was about to topple over, the logic would easily
correct for this.

Now substitute a real person with knee and hip joints, able to adjust their
own balance sideways and fore/aft, and liable to try to make their own
corrections which may counteract those that the scooter tries to make, and
you've complicated things a lot. A Segway, like a bicycle, is inherently
unstable and needs advanced control logic (whether human or computer!) to
keep it upright and to make corrections. I understand that it has now been
found to be a myth that the gyroscopic effect of the wheels plays much of a
part in keeping a bike upright, and that it's all down to minute adjustments
of the steering.


I knew steering played a big part (I thought about 50%) because I've seen a trick played where people are given bicycles with fixed steering, and it's very difficult to balance on them. I'm sure the wheels play a big part too - if you remove a bicycle wheel and keep the hub, then spin it holding the wheelnuts, it's difficult to turn over. Mind you, maybe that's not enough to prevent the weight of the rider falling over too.

I wonder how long it will be (if ever!) before the UK allows Segways etc to
be used anywhere other than private property - ie anywhere that the public
might be. We seem to be very backward in allowing them,


They can go anywhere already - that stupid law is not enforced.

whereas an unskilled
person on a bicycle or roller skates or one of those bloody mobility
scooters can easily injure a bystander. I still have the bruise on my hip
and my foot


I'm sure you'll live. I do find it amusing that the faster species of scooter (they have 4mph and 8mph versions) are not allowed on pavements, when I can legally run on a pavement at well over 8mph.

where an old biddy reversed into me repeatedly in the
supermarket ("the scooter won't move, so I'll keep trying until it does")
and then drove over my foot. And she had the audacity to swear at *me*, when
I was trying very hard not to swear at *her*. She rode off in a huff and hit
a display stand. Poor woman wasn't safe to have control of a scooter.


I find more problems with pedestrians in supermarkets. I was pushing my trolley along quite normally the other week when someone walked backwards into the end of it. He then yelled at me "You could have said something!" So I replied "Like what? Get out of my way you incompetant moron? I hope it's your wife that's driving home...." She was somewhat amused, and he was not.


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Default More Heavy Trolling by Senile Nym-Shifting Rot Speed!

On Fri, 25 Jan 2019 10:00:49 +1100, Steven, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rot Speed, wrote:



That doesn't happen.


The only thing that happens here is your and his trolling, you senile
subnormal cretin!

--
"Anonymous" to trolling senile Rot Speed:
"You can **** off as you know less than pig **** you sad
little ignorant ****."
MID:

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Default Troll-feeding Senile IDIOT Alert!

On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 23:14:20 -0000, NY, the brain damaged, notorious,
troll-feeding senile idiot, babbled again:


You've forgotten Newton 3


You sure got a knack for sucking off the filthiest trolls around, you
abnormal troll-feeding senile cretin!
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Default Lonely Psychotic Senile Ozzie Troll Alert! LOL

On Fri, 25 Jan 2019 09:55:47 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rot Speed,
the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:



Pity about all the dogs you ran over |-(


More pity that nobody ran you over yet, senile cretin!

--
Sqwertz to Rot Speed:
"This is just a hunch, but I'm betting you're kinda an argumentative
asshole.
MID:
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Default How can you possibly fall off a self balancing scooter?

On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 23:14:20 -0000, NY wrote:

"Steven" wrote in message
...


"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 21:26:37 -0000, Steven wrote:



When say it decides you are falling backwards, and moves back,
while you are standing on it, the complete assembly of you and
the scooter moves back and it doesn't change where it is relative
to the person's center of gravity.

Let's say you're stood stationary and upright on it, not moving. Now,
you lose your balance a little and begin to fall over backwards. Your
feet tilt backwards, the device senses this, and moves backwards. You're
now still over the device


Yes, but it can't move under the center of gravity while your feet are
still on it.


You've forgotten Newton 3: "for every action, there is an equal and opposite
reaction".

It moves the wheels by the motor exerting a torque on them. This causes an
equal and opposite torque on the scooter-and-human, thus moving the person's
C of G relative to the axle until the C of G is once again directly over the
axle. This is how it corrects for the person leaning too far forwards or
backwards.

If the person leans back, the sensors detect that the scooter is tipping
backwards, and rotates the wheels backwards, thus tipping the person
forwards.


He's a thick Australian, and has changed name again. He gets really upset when I don't talk to him. His real name is "Rod Speeed" (with two Es - if I used two my newsreader would remove the thread).
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Default How can you possibly fall off a self balancing scooter?



"NY" wrote in message
o.uk...
"Steven" wrote in message
...


"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 21:26:37 -0000, Steven wrote:



When say it decides you are falling backwards, and moves back,
while you are standing on it, the complete assembly of you and
the scooter moves back and it doesn't change where it is relative
to the person's center of gravity.

Let's say you're stood stationary and upright on it, not moving. Now,
you lose your balance a little and begin to fall over backwards. Your
feet tilt backwards, the device senses this, and moves backwards.
You're now still over the device


Yes, but it can't move under the center of gravity while your feet are
still on it.


You've forgotten Newton 3: "for every action, there is an equal and
opposite reaction".


Nope.

It moves the wheels by the motor exerting a torque on them. This causes an
equal and opposite torque on the scooter-and-human,


Yes.

thus moving the person's C of G relative to the axle


Nope, because the tilt of the human doesn't change much.

until the C of G is once again directly over the axle.


Fraid not.

This is how it corrects for the person leaning too far forwards or
backwards.


No, it applies force, it doesn't shift the CoG.

If the person leans back, the sensors detect that the scooter is tipping
backwards, and rotates the wheels backwards, thus tipping the person
forwards.


By force, not by moving the CoG



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Default More Heavy Trolling by Senile Nym-Shifting Rot Speed!

On Fri, 25 Jan 2019 11:15:07 +1100, Steven, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rot Speed, wrote:

FLUSH all the idiotic troll**** unread again

....and much better air in here again.

--
Richard addressing Rot Speed:
"**** you're thick/pathetic excuse for a troll."
MID:

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Default How can you possibly fall off a self balancing scooter?

"Steven" wrote in message
...
"NY" wrote in message
o.uk...
Let's say you're stood stationary and upright on it, not moving. Now,
you lose your balance a little and begin to fall over backwards. Your
feet tilt backwards, the device senses this, and moves backwards.
You're now still over the device

Yes, but it can't move under the center of gravity while your feet are
still on it.


You've forgotten Newton 3: "for every action, there is an equal and
opposite reaction".


Nope.

It moves the wheels by the motor exerting a torque on them. This causes
an equal and opposite torque on the scooter-and-human,


Yes.

thus moving the person's C of G relative to the axle


Nope, because the tilt of the human doesn't change much.


Doesn't it? I've never really watched one in operation that closely.

until the C of G is once again directly over the axle.


Fraid not.

This is how it corrects for the person leaning too far forwards or
backwards.


No, it applies force, it doesn't shift the CoG.

If the person leans back, the sensors detect that the scooter is tipping
backwards, and rotates the wheels backwards, thus tipping the person
forwards.


By force, not by moving the CoG


You may well be right: by exerting a forward-twisting force it may
counteract the tendency of the person (whose C of G is still behind the
axle) to twist the platform backwards. I suppose the fact that it does this
allows the person then to move to adjust their own C of G once the platform
is stable again.

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Default Troll-feeding Senile IDIOT Alert!

On Fri, 25 Jan 2019 09:09:42 -0000, NY, the brain damaged, notorious,
troll-feeding senile idiot, babbled again:

FLUSH those two idiots' endless sick **** unread again

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Default How can you possibly fall off a self balancing scooter?

"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
I knew steering played a big part (I thought about 50%) because I've seen
a trick played where people are given bicycles with fixed steering, and
it's very difficult to balance on them.


Also there have been tests where a perfectly balanced human-size/weight
dummy is attached to a bike, and it falls over even when it is travelling at
a speed that a human could ride easily. That suggests that minute
adjustments to balance and steering are a major factor in staying upright.


I'm sure the wheels play a big part too - if you remove a bicycle wheel
and keep the hub, then spin it holding the wheelnuts, it's difficult to
turn over. Mind you, maybe that's not enough to prevent the weight of the
rider falling over too.


That's the gyroscopic effect. If the wheel is rotating and you twist the
axle side-to-side (in a horizontal plane), there is a force that tries to
twist the axle up-and-down (in a vertical plane). It acts so as to correct a
tendency to fall over: if you start to lean to the left and the front axle
turns to the left, the gyroscopic force acts to try to move the bike back to
vertical, and its magnitude varies with speed.

I can see why people though that this was the only force that mattered,
since it does play a small part in keeping balance - it's just that it's not
enough on it own.

I read of an experiment where a bike was fitted with wheels that had discs
of equal mass to the wheel that were rotated (electrically) in the opposite
direction so as to cancel out any gyroscopic force. And the bike was still
rideable, though it was slightly harder to keep one's balance.

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Default Troll-feeding Senile IDIOT Alert!

On Fri, 25 Jan 2019 09:34:50 -0000, NY, the brain damaged, notorious,
troll-feeding senile idiot, babbled again:

FLUSH another huge load of senile ****e

You seniles STINK of your senility! BG




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Default Troll-feeding Senile IDIOT Alert!

On Fri, 25 Jan 2019 09:34:50 -0000, NY, the brain damaged, notorious,
troll-feeding senile idiot, babbled again:


FLUSH

direction so as to cancel out any gyroscopic force. And the bike was still
rideable, though it was slightly harder to keep one's balance.


You must be ever so thankful to have found a filthy retarded troll, ******
and attention whore like Peter Hucker whom you can keep feeding, senile
idiot! LOL
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Default How can you possibly fall off a self balancing scooter?

On 25/01/2019 09:09, NY wrote:
"Steven" wrote in message
...
"NY" wrote in message
o.uk...
Let's say you're stood stationary and upright on it, not moving.
Now, you lose your balance a little and begin to fall over
backwards.* Your feet tilt backwards, the device senses this, and
moves backwards. You're now still over the device

Yes, but it can't move under the center of gravity while your feet
are still on it.

You've forgotten Newton 3: "for every action, there is an equal and
opposite reaction".


Nope.

It moves the wheels by the motor exerting a torque on them. This
causes an equal and opposite torque on the scooter-and-human,


Yes.

thus moving the person's C of G relative to the axle


Nope, because the tilt of the human doesn't change much.


Doesn't it? I've never really watched one in operation that closely.

until the C of G is once again directly over the axle.


Fraid not.

This is how it corrects for the person leaning too far forwards or
backwards.


No, it applies force, it doesn't shift the CoG.

If the person leans back, the sensors detect that the scooter is
tipping backwards, and rotates the wheels backwards, thus tipping the
person forwards.


By force, not by moving the CoG


You may well be right: by exerting a forward-twisting force it may
counteract the tendency of the person (whose C of G is still behind the
axle) to twist the platform backwards. I suppose the fact that it does
this allows the person then to move to adjust their own C of G once the
platform is stable again.


It simply moves the platform and the rider's feet back to below the CoG.
Hence rebalancing.

SteveW

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Default How can you possibly fall off a self balancing scooter?

On Fri, 25 Jan 2019 09:34:50 -0000, NY wrote:

"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
I knew steering played a big part (I thought about 50%) because I've seen
a trick played where people are given bicycles with fixed steering, and
it's very difficult to balance on them.


Also there have been tests where a perfectly balanced human-size/weight
dummy is attached to a bike, and it falls over even when it is travelling at
a speed that a human could ride easily. That suggests that minute
adjustments to balance and steering are a major factor in staying upright.

I'm sure the wheels play a big part too - if you remove a bicycle wheel
and keep the hub, then spin it holding the wheelnuts, it's difficult to
turn over. Mind you, maybe that's not enough to prevent the weight of the
rider falling over too.


That's the gyroscopic effect. If the wheel is rotating and you twist the
axle side-to-side (in a horizontal plane), there is a force that tries to
twist the axle up-and-down (in a vertical plane). It acts so as to correct a
tendency to fall over: if you start to lean to the left and the front axle
turns to the left, the gyroscopic force acts to try to move the bike back to
vertical, and its magnitude varies with speed.

I can see why people though that this was the only force that mattered,
since it does play a small part in keeping balance - it's just that it's not
enough on it own.


I would have said a large part. Just try balancing on a bicycle that's stationary.

I read of an experiment where a bike was fitted with wheels that had discs
of equal mass to the wheel that were rotated (electrically) in the opposite
direction so as to cancel out any gyroscopic force. And the bike was still
rideable, though it was slightly harder to keep one's balance.


I guess it's also harder if you have a very lightweight racing bike with lighter wheels. Mind you, I could never ride a bike with narrow handlebars, I can only ride mountain bikes. Not enough leverage to balance by steering in those drop handlebar types.
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Default How can you possibly fall off a self balancing scooter?

On Fri, 25 Jan 2019 09:34:50 -0000, NY wrote:

"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
I knew steering played a big part (I thought about 50%) because I've seen
a trick played where people are given bicycles with fixed steering, and
it's very difficult to balance on them.


Also there have been tests where a perfectly balanced human-size/weight
dummy is attached to a bike, and it falls over even when it is travelling at
a speed that a human could ride easily. That suggests that minute
adjustments to balance and steering are a major factor in staying upright.


I'm sure the wheels play a big part too - if you remove a bicycle wheel
and keep the hub, then spin it holding the wheelnuts, it's difficult to
turn over. Mind you, maybe that's not enough to prevent the weight of the
rider falling over too.


That's the gyroscopic effect. If the wheel is rotating and you twist the
axle side-to-side (in a horizontal plane), there is a force that tries to
twist the axle up-and-down (in a vertical plane). It acts so as to correct a
tendency to fall over: if you start to lean to the left and the front axle
turns to the left, the gyroscopic force acts to try to move the bike back to
vertical, and its magnitude varies with speed.


There's something you can do with a computer chair (as in one that can rotate) and a bicycle wheel. I can't remember what it was, something like your friend gets the wheel spinning and hands it to you, then you turn it to the horizontal, making the chair spin round.

I can see why people though that this was the only force that mattered,
since it does play a small part in keeping balance - it's just that it's not
enough on it own.

I read of an experiment where a bike was fitted with wheels that had discs
of equal mass to the wheel that were rotated (electrically) in the opposite
direction so as to cancel out any gyroscopic force. And the bike was still
rideable, though it was slightly harder to keep one's balance.

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