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How to make USB ports more zap resistant?
Several months ago, a port on an NEC-based USB card failed (a section
of its LM3526 power controller & overcurrent protection chip blew), and just recently the same happened to an ALI-based USB card. I'm pretty sure I didn't zap either card with high voltage because I always touch the outer metal shell of the USB connector to bare metal on the computer case before plugging it in. Each USB port has a 100-220 uF aluminum capacitor across its +5V and ground lines, and the NEC-based card also had a ceramic chip capacitor in parallel. Is there anything I can change or add to protect USB ports better? Does it help to use tantalum or low ESR aluminum capacitors? I installed tantalums on my other USB cards just after the NEC card blew. |
"larry moe 'n curly" wrote in message ups.com... .... | in parallel. Is there anything I can change or add to protect USB | ports better? Does it help to use tantalum or low ESR aluminum .... Use a powered hub. N |
NSM wrote: "larry moe 'n curly" wrote in message ups.com... Is there anything I can change or add to protect USB ports better? Does it help to use tantalum or low ESR aluminum capacitors in parallel? Use a powered hub. How does that help when a powered hub costs as much as a PCI USB card and has ports that are just as vulnerable to zapping as the card's? |
In article . com,
larry moe 'n curly says... Use a powered hub. How does that help when a powered hub costs as much as a PCI USB card and has ports that are just as vulnerable to zapping as the card's? Because a powered hub can support a higher load per port than a PCI/Onboard USB card. -- Conor An imperfect plan executed violently is far superior to a perfect plan. -- George Patton |
"larry moe 'n curly" wrote in message ups.com... Several months ago, a port on an NEC-based USB card failed (a section of its LM3526 power controller & overcurrent protection chip blew), and just recently the same happened to an ALI-based USB card. I'm pretty sure I didn't zap either card with high voltage because I always touch the outer metal shell of the USB connector to bare metal on the computer case before plugging it in. Each USB port has a 100-220 uF aluminum capacitor across its +5V and ground lines, and the NEC-based card also had a ceramic chip capacitor in parallel. Is there anything I can change or add to protect USB ports better? Does it help to use tantalum or low ESR aluminum capacitors? I installed tantalums on my other USB cards just after the NEC card blew. is this with various USB devices or one in particular? I have yet to do harm to any USB port, on even my oldest machine. All kinds of different devices- DC's, printers, keyboard/mice, speakers, sound devices, USB LAN converters etc. |
On 14 Jan 2005 22:19:26 -0800, "larry moe 'n curly"
wrote: Several months ago, a port on an NEC-based USB card failed (a section of its LM3526 power controller & overcurrent protection chip blew), and just recently the same happened to an ALI-based USB card. I'm pretty sure I didn't zap either card with high voltage because I always touch the outer metal shell of the USB connector to bare metal on the computer case before plugging it in. Each USB port has a 100-220 uF aluminum capacitor across its +5V and ground lines, and the NEC-based card also had a ceramic chip capacitor in parallel. Is there anything I can change or add to protect USB ports better? Does it help to use tantalum or low ESR aluminum capacitors? I installed tantalums on my other USB cards just after the NEC card blew. Tantalum caps are inclined to explode. John |
"larry moe 'n curly" wrote in message ups.com... | How does that help when a powered hub costs as much as a PCI USB card | and has ports that are just as vulnerable to zapping as the card's? What is zapping these? This seems to be unusual? Is the grounding OK on your systems? N |
NSM wrote:
"larry moe 'n curly" wrote in message ups.com... | How does that help when a powered hub costs as much as a PCI USB card | and has ports that are just as vulnerable to zapping as the card's? What is zapping these? This seems to be unusual? Is the grounding OK on your systems? It's winter time in the Great White North. -35'C overnight but it has warmed up all the way to -22'C so far this afternoon. I hate this time of the year because I have to deal with all the friends, friends-of-friends, etc., who fry keyboards, mice, PS/2 ports, and USB ports simply by sitting down to use their computer in a room with 15% relative humidity. Doesn't matter how often you warn them to use a humidifier. The knowledge /you/ have acquired over the years means nothing to them until /after/ they fry something. At which point they wonder why you never warned them about it before. |
"Rob Stow" wrote in message news:1cfGd.86385$8l.61931@pd7tw1no... | It's winter time in the Great White North. -35'C overnight but | it has warmed up all the way to -22'C so far this afternoon. | | I hate this time of the year because I have to deal with all the | friends, friends-of-friends, etc., who fry keyboards, mice, PS/2 | ports, and USB ports simply by sitting down to use their computer | in a room with 15% relative humidity. | | Doesn't matter how often you warn them to use a humidifier. The | knowledge /you/ have acquired over the years means nothing to | them until /after/ they fry something. At which point they | wonder why you never warned them about it before. Radio Shack used to sell 'Anti Static Spray' which, AFAIK, was a detergent solution you sprayed on the carpet. Also, ISTR some sort of grounding pad you could get which you touched before touching the computer. I suppose some sort of USB spike suppressor is possible but I haven't seen one so far. Even in the Lower Mainland, BC, it's -6 C. We don't care for that sort of thing in Lotus Land. Even the freaks are staying indoors. N |
NSM wrote: "Rob Stow" wrote in message news:1cfGd.86385$8l.61931@pd7tw1no... | It's winter time in the Great White North. -35'C overnight but | it has warmed up all the way to -22'C so far this afternoon. | | I hate this time of the year because I have to deal with all the | friends, friends-of-friends, etc., who fry keyboards, mice, PS/2 | ports, and USB ports simply by sitting down to use their computer | in a room with 15% relative humidity. | | Doesn't matter how often you warn them to use a humidifier. The | knowledge /you/ have acquired over the years means nothing to | them until /after/ they fry something. At which point they | wonder why you never warned them about it before. Radio Shack used to sell 'Anti Static Spray' which, AFAIK, was a detergent solution you sprayed on the carpet. Also, ISTR some sort of grounding pad you could get which you touched before touching the computer. I suppose some sort of USB spike suppressor is possible but I haven't seen one so far. Even in the Lower Mainland, BC, it's -6 C. We don't care for that sort of thing in Lotus Land. Even the freaks are staying indoors. N Wow, -6 degrees. I feel sorry for you folks; must be terrible! Shall we send emergency aid? :) Come and visit Winnipeg. -29 now (mid afternoon; with -34 forecast for tonight. And that doesn't include the windchill... with it it will drop to the mid -40's : Seriously though, if the OP lost two usb ports in as many weeks, I'd be guessing that he's either extremely unlucky, or more likely should be looking at what he's plugging into them. Ken |
On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 08:42:09 -0800, John Larkin
wrote: On 14 Jan 2005 22:19:26 -0800, "larry moe 'n curly" wrote: Several months ago, a port on an NEC-based USB card failed (a section of its LM3526 power controller & overcurrent protection chip blew), and just recently the same happened to an ALI-based USB card. I'm pretty sure I didn't zap either card with high voltage because I always touch the outer metal shell of the USB connector to bare metal on the computer case before plugging it in. Each USB port has a 100-220 uF aluminum capacitor across its +5V and ground lines, and the NEC-based card also had a ceramic chip capacitor in parallel. Is there anything I can change or add to protect USB ports better? Does it help to use tantalum or low ESR aluminum capacitors? I installed tantalums on my other USB cards just after the NEC card blew. Tantalum caps are inclined to explode. That's a mischaracterization. When they *fail*, they tend to 'splode. But they don't tend to fail if the application is appropriate... /daytripper |
NSM wrote:
Radio Shack used to sell 'Anti Static Spray' which, AFAIK, was a detergent solution you sprayed on the carpet. Get the same effect with liquid fabric softener one part to four parts water in a spray bottle. Works great, smells great. :) |
On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 16:36:11 -0500, daytripper wrote:
On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 08:42:09 -0800, John Larkin wrote: On 14 Jan 2005 22:19:26 -0800, "larry moe 'n curly" wrote: Several months ago, a port on an NEC-based USB card failed (a section of its LM3526 power controller & overcurrent protection chip blew), and just recently the same happened to an ALI-based USB card. I'm pretty sure I didn't zap either card with high voltage because I always touch the outer metal shell of the USB connector to bare metal on the computer case before plugging it in. Each USB port has a 100-220 uF aluminum capacitor across its +5V and ground lines, and the NEC-based card also had a ceramic chip capacitor in parallel. Is there anything I can change or add to protect USB ports better? Does it help to use tantalum or low ESR aluminum capacitors? I installed tantalums on my other USB cards just after the NEC card blew. Tantalum caps are inclined to explode. That's a mischaracterization. When they *fail*, they tend to 'splode. But they don't tend to fail if the application is appropriate... ....and you don't buy ****. They do get grumpy when inserted backwards though. That was the real problem thirty years ago. Tants are expensive though and thus the cheaper leaking aluminums. -- Keith |
JAD wrote: "larry moe 'n curly" wrote in message ups.com... a port on an NEC-based USB card failed (a section of its LM3526 power controller & overcurrent protection chip blew), and just recently the same happened to an ALI-based USB card. I always touch the outer metal shell of the USB connector to bare metal on the computer case before plugging it in. Is there anything I can change or add to protect USB ports better? Does it help to use tantalum or low ESR aluminum capacitors? is this with various USB devices or one in particular? The NEC card's port blew when I tried a thumb drive, the ALi card with a Netgear wireless LAN adapter. Neither of those devices was damaged. |
NSM wrote: What is zapping these? This seems to be unusual? Is the grounding OK on your systems? Everything is grounded to earth, and I ground the USB connector to the computer case just before plugging it into the port. |
Rob Stow wrote: It's winter time in the Great White North. -35'C overnight but it has warmed up all the way to -22'C so far this afternoon. Doesn't matter how often you warn them to use a humidifier. The knowledge /you/ have acquired over the years means nothing to them until /after/ they fry something. At which point they wonder why you never warned them about it before. I'm in Arizona and haven't used any heat yet, and the indoor humidity was 20% even when it was 4% outdoors (measured with wet and dry bulb thermometers). I'm sure that the zaps weren't from high voltage (I touch metal to metal before plugging anything in) but from high current. |
On 14 Jan 2005 22:19:26 -0800, "larry moe 'n curly"
wrote: Several months ago, a port on an NEC-based USB card failed (a section of its LM3526 power controller & overcurrent protection chip blew), and just recently the same happened to an ALI-based USB card. I'm pretty sure I didn't zap either card with high voltage because I always touch the outer metal shell of the USB connector to bare metal on the computer case before plugging it in. Each USB port has a 100-220 uF aluminum capacitor across its +5V and ground lines, and the NEC-based card also had a ceramic chip capacitor in parallel. Is there anything I can change or add to protect USB ports better? Does it help to use tantalum or low ESR aluminum capacitors? I installed tantalums on my other USB cards just after the NEC card blew. Try adding little NE-2 lamps from the active line to ground. A*s*i*m*o*v |
larry moe 'n curly wrote:
Rob Stow wrote: It's winter time in the Great White North. -35'C overnight but it has warmed up all the way to -22'C so far this afternoon. Doesn't matter how often you warn them to use a humidifier. The knowledge /you/ have acquired over the years means nothing to them until /after/ they fry something. At which point they wonder why you never warned them about it before. I'm in Arizona and haven't used any heat yet, and the indoor humidity was 20% even when it was 4% outdoors (measured with wet and dry bulb thermometers). I'm sure that the zaps weren't from high voltage (I touch metal to metal before plugging anything in) but from high current. When it gets as cold as it has been today, it is not unusual to have 80% r.h. outdoors, but 10% to 15% indoors if a humidifier is not used. You drink a *lot* of water when you visit someone who doesn't use a humidifier. At such places, it is not unusual to see huge freaking blue-white sparks fly if you walk across a carpet and then reach out towards something grounded. Dogs learn quickly to stay away from children. ;-) |
N
Wow, -6 degrees. I feel sorry for you folks; must be terrible! Shall we send emergency aid? :) No no need to panic. The cold spell has ended and it is raining and 6 degrees out. Luckily the rain is now melting that snow we had. We have bylaws outlawing snow here. Snow is for the rest of the country. We don't allow it here. Come and visit Winnipeg. -29 now (mid afternoon; with -34 forecast for tonight. And that doesn't include the windchill... with it it will drop to the mid -40's : Only fools and my brother and sister live in Winterpeg. There is a reason it is called winterpeg. |
Come and visit Winnipeg. -29 now (mid afternoon; with -34 forecast for tonight. And that doesn't include the windchill... with it it will drop to the mid -40's : Just for grins, how do you handle your plumbing to keep it from freezing? |
Dave VanHorn wrote:
Come and visit Winnipeg. -29 now (mid afternoon; with -34 forecast for tonight. And that doesn't include the windchill... with it it will drop to the mid -40's : Just for grins, how do you handle your plumbing to keep it from freezing? When you have a half-hour walk home from the pub on a night like that, it doesn't matter that you remembered to take a leak before you left the pub. You *will* need to urgently take a leak while walking through a residential neighbourhood three blocks from the nearest bathroom in a cafe/restaurant/pub. So you detour into a back alley, unzip, pull it out, and you handle your plumbing *to* keep it from freezing. :-) Actually, it's not so bad - emptying your bladder involves pumping large volumes of hot liquid through the "plumbing". It is the hands that suffer - if you weren't holding onto the ... ummm ... hot water pipe your hand would freeze. -- Every cloud has a silver lining, even if you sometimes have to drop a little acid before you can see it. |
Dave VanHorn wrote: Come and visit Winnipeg. -29 now (mid afternoon; with -34 forecast for tonight. And that doesn't include the windchill... with it it will drop to the mid -40's : Just for grins, how do you handle your plumbing to keep it from freezing? Hi... A few of the luckier of us have indoor plumbing nowdays... Whatever will they think of next? :) :) Seriously, it's no problem... I froze my water line where it enters the house once many many years ago; but 'twas my own fault, and easily cured. Finished the basement, put R40 insulation on the outer walls. Left the water line (where it exits the meter) tight against the concrete wall so it was insulated from any house heat. One of my neighbors is in the Caribbean as we speak; I go over daily and empty his mail box; go inside and turn on one of the cold water taps, flush the toilet a couple of times, make sure the furnace is still holding the temperature up, and done. No problem. Come on up and visit :) Ken |
"Lee Waun" wrote in message news:f%IGd.106158$dv1.18162@edtnps89... | N | | Wow, -6 degrees. I feel sorry for you folks; must be | terrible! Shall we send emergency aid? :) | | No no need to panic. The cold spell has ended and it is raining and 6 | degrees out. Luckily the rain is now melting that snow we had. We have | bylaws outlawing snow here. Snow is for the rest of the country. We don't | allow it here. | | Come and visit Winnipeg. -29 now (mid afternoon; with -34 forecast | for tonight. And that doesn't include the windchill... with | it it will drop to the mid -40's : | | Only fools and my brother and sister live in Winterpeg. There is a reason it | is called winterpeg. My Grandparents emigrated from Scotland to Brandon, MB, around 1900. It was so cold there that after a few years they re-emigrated to New Zealand. N |
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"NSM" wrote in message news:aAUGd.115649$KO5.61871@clgrps13... "Lee Waun" wrote in message news:f%IGd.106158$dv1.18162@edtnps89... | N | | Wow, -6 degrees. I feel sorry for you folks; must be | terrible! Shall we send emergency aid? :) | | No no need to panic. The cold spell has ended and it is raining and 6 | degrees out. Luckily the rain is now melting that snow we had. We have | bylaws outlawing snow here. Snow is for the rest of the country. We don't | allow it here. | | Come and visit Winnipeg. -29 now (mid afternoon; with -34 forecast | for tonight. And that doesn't include the windchill... with | it it will drop to the mid -40's : | | Only fools and my brother and sister live in Winterpeg. There is a reason it | is called winterpeg. My Grandparents emigrated from Scotland to Brandon, MB, around 1900. It was so cold there that after a few years they re-emigrated to New Zealand. N They made the right choice. |
On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 18:27:48 GMT, Ken Weitzel
wrote: Dave VanHorn wrote: Come and visit Winnipeg. -29 now (mid afternoon; with -34 forecast for tonight. And that doesn't include the windchill... with it it will drop to the mid -40's : Just for grins, how do you handle your plumbing to keep it from freezing? Hi... A few of the luckier of us have indoor plumbing nowdays... Whatever will they think of next? :) :) Seriously, it's no problem... I froze my water line where it enters the house once many many years ago; but 'twas my own fault, and easily cured. Finished the basement, put R40 insulation on the outer walls. Left the water line (where it exits the meter) tight against the concrete wall so it was insulated from any house heat. One of my neighbors is in the Caribbean as we speak; I go over daily and empty his mail box; go inside and turn on one of the cold water taps, flush the toilet a couple of times, make sure the furnace is still holding the temperature up, and done. No problem. Come on up and visit :) I lived in a mini-home for awhile, and we needed both heat tape and thick insulation for the water pipe behind the skirting where it left the ground and entered the house. It froze several times on us, and once frozen, was quite troublesome to thaw. Had it been a metal pipe it would've been easier, I suppose. Tom Tom Ken |
On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 21:13:53 GMT, Tom MacIntyre
wrote: One of my neighbors is in the Caribbean as we speak; I go over daily and empty his mail box; go inside and turn on one of the cold water taps, flush the toilet a couple of times, make sure the furnace is still holding the temperature up, and done. No problem. Come on up and visit :) I lived in a mini-home for awhile, and we needed both heat tape and thick insulation for the water pipe behind the skirting where it left the ground and entered the house. It froze several times on us, and once frozen, was quite troublesome to thaw. Had it been a metal pipe it would've been easier, I suppose. Forgot...I live in Cape Breton, Nova Scotia (Atlantic Canada), and it isn't nearly as cold here as it is in Winnipeg. Tom |
Tom MacIntyre wrote: On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 18:27:48 GMT, Ken Weitzel wrote: Dave VanHorn wrote: Come and visit Winnipeg. -29 now (mid afternoon; with -34 forecast for tonight. And that doesn't include the windchill... with it it will drop to the mid -40's : Just for grins, how do you handle your plumbing to keep it from freezing? Hi... A few of the luckier of us have indoor plumbing nowdays... Whatever will they think of next? :) :) Seriously, it's no problem... I froze my water line where it enters the house once many many years ago; but 'twas my own fault, and easily cured. Finished the basement, put R40 insulation on the outer walls. Left the water line (where it exits the meter) tight against the concrete wall so it was insulated from any house heat. One of my neighbors is in the Caribbean as we speak; I go over daily and empty his mail box; go inside and turn on one of the cold water taps, flush the toilet a couple of times, make sure the furnace is still holding the temperature up, and done. No problem. Come on up and visit :) I lived in a mini-home for awhile, and we needed both heat tape and thick insulation for the water pipe behind the skirting where it left the ground and entered the house. It froze several times on us, and once frozen, was quite troublesome to thaw. Had it been a metal pipe it would've been easier, I suppose. Hi Tom... Metal may well have been easier to thaw; just wave a torch back and forth on it for a while. BIG downside to metal, though. If it ever freezes solid, it's going to burst the pipe, and then you have huge problems to deal with. Plastic on the other hand has enough give to it that it doesn't burst. Ken |
On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 21:13:53 +0000, Tom MacIntyre wrote:
On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 18:27:48 GMT, Ken Weitzel wrote: Dave VanHorn wrote: Come and visit Winnipeg. -29 now (mid afternoon; with -34 forecast for tonight. And that doesn't include the windchill... with it it will drop to the mid -40's : Just for grins, how do you handle your plumbing to keep it from freezing? Hi... A few of the luckier of us have indoor plumbing nowdays... Whatever will they think of next? :) :) Seriously, it's no problem... I froze my water line where it enters the house once many many years ago; but 'twas my own fault, and easily cured. Finished the basement, put R40 insulation on the outer walls. Left the water line (where it exits the meter) tight against the concrete wall so it was insulated from any house heat. One of my neighbors is in the Caribbean as we speak; I go over daily and empty his mail box; go inside and turn on one of the cold water taps, flush the toilet a couple of times, make sure the furnace is still holding the temperature up, and done. No problem. Come on up and visit :) I lived in a mini-home for awhile, and we needed both heat tape and thick insulation for the water pipe behind the skirting where it left the ground and entered the house. It froze several times on us, and once frozen, was quite troublesome to thaw. Had it been a metal pipe it would've been easier, I suppose. When I was in college *moons* ago (yes, they had colleges back then) we owned a "mobile home" (a.k.a. tornado target) in cold country. Pretty much every year we had the heat-tape burn out underneath the trailer and had to have someone come out and fix it. It generally took an hour or so for the tech to get it all back together (and a pot of money no college student has). The tech carried a spot-welder in the truck and hooked it to each end of the pipe. Instant thaw! Yeah, metal was easier. ;-) -- Keith |
On 14 Jan 2005 22:19:26 -0800, "larry moe 'n curly"
put finger to keyboard and composed: Several months ago, a port on an NEC-based USB card failed (a section of its LM3526 power controller & overcurrent protection chip blew), and just recently the same happened to an ALI-based USB card. Do both cards use the same NS chip? Is it possible that you have an open ground at your mains outlet? This would result in a case potential of half the mains voltage. - Franc Zabkar -- Please remove one 's' from my address when replying by email. |
On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 12:15:51 -0500, "Dave VanHorn"
wrote: Come and visit Winnipeg. -29 now (mid afternoon; with -34 forecast for tonight. And that doesn't include the windchill... with it it will drop to the mid -40's : Just for grins, how do you handle your plumbing to keep it from freezing? That's what long underwear is for! : Ohh.. did you mean your house plumbing? ------------- Tony Hill hilla underscore 20 at yahoo dot ca |
Franc Zabkar wrote: On 14 Jan 2005 22:19:26 -0800, "larry moe 'n curly" put finger to keyboard and composed: Several months ago, a port on an NEC-based USB card failed (a section of its LM3526 power controller & overcurrent protection chip blew), and just recently the same happened to an ALI-based USB card. Do both cards use the same NS chip? Is it possible that you have an open ground at your mains outlet? This would result in a case potential of half the mains voltage. The ground seems to be OK (120VAC from ground to hot, 0VAC from ground to neutral), and the ALi card doesn't use a separate controller/protector chip but has the USB chip tied directly to the ports. |
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