Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems.

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Old January 6th 21, 07:00 PM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Default Finding the cmos battery

Hi all,

I have a Roberts Stream 105 internet radio which I bought about 9
years ago. It's been fine up until maybe 18 months ago when it could
no longer remember my preferred settings. I'm guessing it has a little
backup cell in there somewhere that's gone way past its sell-by date.
I've opened up the case and it must be very well hidden indeed. I
asked Roberts for info on where it is but they obfuscated and told me
to return it to them and they'd fix it for 40 quid! There are no
manuals for this model on line (not service manuals anyway) and I *do*
like to fix things for myself as a matter of course anyway. The inside
consists of only 3 boards apart from the display: an audio board (as
it describes itself) the wireless card (I deduce from the fact that
although it's fully screened it's got a MAC address label on it) and
controller board interfacing to the user controls.
The only place this battery could be hiding is within a screened
enclosure on the "audio board". Now, I should have done this sooner
obviously, but time shortages and whatnot, I've probed the underside
of the screened area and found a persistent 0.3V above ground on some
of the joints. Does that sound like the sort of voltage a backup cell
would fall back to after 9 years? This 0.3V is with all external power
removed and after shorting out any capacitances.

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Old January 6th 21, 07:40 PM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Default Finding the cmos battery

My guess is that it is a 2032 button cell - which have been popular for that function for a long time. Are you able to apply about 3V at the appropriate polarity and see if the memory comes back? Or even 1.5V as proof-of-concept?

After which comes the question of whether it is rechargeable (LIR2032) or not (CR2032).

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
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Old January 6th 21, 08:00 PM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Default Finding the cmos battery

On Wed, 6 Jan 2021 10:40:30 -0800 (PST), "Peter W."
wrote:

My guess is that it is a 2032 button cell - which have been popular for that function for a long time. Are you able to apply about 3V at the appropriate polarity and see if the memory comes back? Or even 1.5V as proof-of-concept?

After which comes the question of whether it is rechargeable (LIR2032) or not (CR2032).


I was thinking *if* it is rechargeable, I *could* (could I not?)
replace with an equivalent non-rechargeable in series with a diode to
prevent it from taking a charge it's not designed for?
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Old January 6th 21, 08:44 PM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Default Finding the cmos battery

On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 18:00:32 +0000, Cursitor Doom
wrote:

Hi all,

I have a Roberts Stream 105 internet radio which I bought about 9
years ago. It's been fine up until maybe 18 months ago when it could
no longer remember my preferred settings. I'm guessing it has a little
backup cell in there somewhere that's gone way past its sell-by date.
I've opened up the case and it must be very well hidden indeed. I
asked Roberts for info on where it is but they obfuscated and told me
to return it to them and they'd fix it for 40 quid! There are no
manuals for this model on line (not service manuals anyway) and I *do*
like to fix things for myself as a matter of course anyway. The inside
consists of only 3 boards apart from the display: an audio board (as
it describes itself) the wireless card (I deduce from the fact that
although it's fully screened it's got a MAC address label on it) and
controller board interfacing to the user controls.
The only place this battery could be hiding is within a screened
enclosure on the "audio board". Now, I should have done this sooner
obviously, but time shortages and whatnot, I've probed the underside
of the screened area and found a persistent 0.3V above ground on some
of the joints. Does that sound like the sort of voltage a backup cell
would fall back to after 9 years? This 0.3V is with all external power
removed and after shorting out any capacitances.

Look for a 1/2 to1 farad electrolytic capacitor. Probably near the
upc.
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Old January 6th 21, 09:48 PM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Default Finding the cmos battery

On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 12:56:07 -0700, KenW
wrote:

On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 13:44:19 -0600, Chuck
wrote:

On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 18:00:32 +0000, Cursitor Doom
wrote:

Hi all,

I have a Roberts Stream 105 internet radio which I bought about 9
years ago. It's been fine up until maybe 18 months ago when it could
no longer remember my preferred settings. I'm guessing it has a little
backup cell in there somewhere that's gone way past its sell-by date.
I've opened up the case and it must be very well hidden indeed. I
asked Roberts for info on where it is but they obfuscated and told me
to return it to them and they'd fix it for 40 quid! There are no
manuals for this model on line (not service manuals anyway) and I *do*
like to fix things for myself as a matter of course anyway. The inside
consists of only 3 boards apart from the display: an audio board (as
it describes itself) the wireless card (I deduce from the fact that
although it's fully screened it's got a MAC address label on it) and
controller board interfacing to the user controls.
The only place this battery could be hiding is within a screened
enclosure on the "audio board". Now, I should have done this sooner
obviously, but time shortages and whatnot, I've probed the underside
of the screened area and found a persistent 0.3V above ground on some
of the joints. Does that sound like the sort of voltage a backup cell
would fall back to after 9 years? This 0.3V is with all external power
removed and after shorting out any capacitances.

Look for a 1/2 to1 farad electrolytic capacitor. Probably near the
upc.


Caps were used to retain voltage to a circuit. Some telephone systems
I worked on used them.


What? Are you guys saying there may be no actual battery at all? And
they've used an electro in place of one?


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Old January 6th 21, 09:51 PM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Default Finding the cmos battery

On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 13:44:19 -0600, Chuck
wrote:

On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 18:00:32 +0000, Cursitor Doom
wrote:

Hi all,

I have a Roberts Stream 105 internet radio which I bought about 9
years ago. It's been fine up until maybe 18 months ago when it could
no longer remember my preferred settings. I'm guessing it has a little
backup cell in there somewhere that's gone way past its sell-by date.
I've opened up the case and it must be very well hidden indeed. I
asked Roberts for info on where it is but they obfuscated and told me
to return it to them and they'd fix it for 40 quid! There are no
manuals for this model on line (not service manuals anyway) and I *do*
like to fix things for myself as a matter of course anyway. The inside
consists of only 3 boards apart from the display: an audio board (as
it describes itself) the wireless card (I deduce from the fact that
although it's fully screened it's got a MAC address label on it) and
controller board interfacing to the user controls.
The only place this battery could be hiding is within a screened
enclosure on the "audio board". Now, I should have done this sooner
obviously, but time shortages and whatnot, I've probed the underside
of the screened area and found a persistent 0.3V above ground on some
of the joints. Does that sound like the sort of voltage a backup cell
would fall back to after 9 years? This 0.3V is with all external power
removed and after shorting out any capacitances.

Look for a 1/2 to1 farad electrolytic capacitor. Probably near the
upc.


At that value it would be a supercapacitor I'd imagine. Were they
installing those in new equipment 10 years ago?

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Old January 6th 21, 09:51 PM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Default Finding the cmos battery

On Wednesday, January 6, 2021 at 3:49:00 PM UTC-5, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 12:56:07 -0700, KenW
wrote:

On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 13:44:19 -0600, Chuck
wrote:

On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 18:00:32 +0000, Cursitor Doom
wrote:

Hi all,

I have a Roberts Stream 105 internet radio which I bought about 9
years ago. It's been fine up until maybe 18 months ago when it could
no longer remember my preferred settings. I'm guessing it has a little
backup cell in there somewhere that's gone way past its sell-by date.
I've opened up the case and it must be very well hidden indeed. I
asked Roberts for info on where it is but they obfuscated and told me
to return it to them and they'd fix it for 40 quid! There are no
manuals for this model on line (not service manuals anyway) and I *do*
like to fix things for myself as a matter of course anyway. The inside
consists of only 3 boards apart from the display: an audio board (as
it describes itself) the wireless card (I deduce from the fact that
although it's fully screened it's got a MAC address label on it) and
controller board interfacing to the user controls.
The only place this battery could be hiding is within a screened
enclosure on the "audio board". Now, I should have done this sooner
obviously, but time shortages and whatnot, I've probed the underside
of the screened area and found a persistent 0.3V above ground on some
of the joints. Does that sound like the sort of voltage a backup cell
would fall back to after 9 years? This 0.3V is with all external power
removed and after shorting out any capacitances.
Look for a 1/2 to1 farad electrolytic capacitor. Probably near the
upc.


Caps were used to retain voltage to a circuit. Some telephone systems
I worked on used them.


What? Are you guys saying there may be no actual battery at all? And
they've used an electro in place of one?


I remember several consumer electronic items using a "supercap", something like 0.47F. They did go bad certainly.




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Old January 7th 21, 04:40 AM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Default Finding the cmos battery

Cursitor Doom Wrote in message:r
On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 12:56:07 -0700, wrote:On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 13:44:19 -0600, Chuck wrote:On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 18:00:32 +0000, Cursitor Doom wrote:Hi all,I have a Roberts Stream 105 internet radio which I bought about 9years ago. It's been fine up until maybe 18 months ago when it couldno longer remember my preferred settings. I'm guessing it has a littlebackup cell in there somewhere that's gone way past its sell-by date.I've opened up the case and it must be very well hidden indeed. Iasked Roberts for info on where it is but they obfuscated and told meto return it to them and they'd fix it for 40 quid! There are nomanuals for this model on line (not service manuals anyway) and I *do*like to fix things for myself as a matter of course anyway. The insideconsists of only 3 boards apart from the display: an audio board (asit describes itself) the wireless card (I deduce from the fact thatalthough it's fully screened it's got a MAC address label on it) andcontroller board interfacing to the user controls.The only place this battery could be hiding is within a screenedenclosure on the "audio board". Now, I should have done this soonerobviously, but time shortages and whatnot, I've probed the undersideof the screened area and found a persistent 0.3V above ground on someof the joints. Does that sound like the sort of voltage a backup cellwould fall back to after 9 years? This 0.3V is with all external powerremoved and after shorting out any capacitances.Look for a 1/2 to1 farad electrolytic capacitor. Probably near theupc.Caps were used to retain voltage to a circuit. Some telephone systemsI worked on used them.What? Are you guys saying there may be no actual battery at all? Andthey've used an electro in place of one?


The .47 to 1F caps have been used for 30 years in stereo receivers.
--
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Old January 7th 21, 03:26 PM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Default Finding the cmos battery

On Wed, 6 Jan 2021 21:40:39 -0600 (CST), Chuck
wrote:

The .47 to 1F caps have been used for 30 years in stereo receivers.


I'm suitably amazed. Mind you I've never had much to do with them.

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Old January 7th 21, 06:04 PM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Default Finding the cmos battery

On 06/01/2021 21:51, Cursitor Doom wrote:
At that value it would be a supercapacitor I'd imagine. Were they
installing those in new equipment 10 years ago?

Sure for memory function but for any active function,like RTC,
batteries are still mostly used.


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