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Refrigerator current load
I expect a large fridge to draw around 5 amps, but my clamp transformer
(on one wire of a broken-out extension cord of course) and Fluke together say 830ma when the thing is running. Does that seem wrong? It measures the toaster oven at 9.1A and the fridge light at 300ma. -- |
Refrigerator current load
On 1/12/2020 5:43 PM, Tom Del Rosso wrote:
I expect a large fridge to draw around 5 amps, but my clamp transformer (on one wire of a broken-out extension cord of course) and Fluke together say 830ma when the thing is running. Does that seem wrong? It measures the toaster oven at 9.1A and the fridge light at 300ma. Are sure that is not just a fan running without the compressor running? It has to be more when the compressor runs. Mikek |
Refrigerator current load
On Sunday, January 12, 2020 at 6:43:33 PM UTC-5, Tom Del Rosso wrote:
I expect a large fridge to draw around 5 amps, but my clamp transformer (on one wire of a broken-out extension cord of course) and Fluke together say 830ma when the thing is running. Does that seem wrong? It measures the toaster oven at 9.1A and the fridge light at 300ma. That sounds about right. A refrigerator maintains a low temperature, but takes a long time to pull the contents down from room temperature. The compressor is tiny, inside the housing It is spring mounted to reduce the noise, and to surround the motor with refrigerant. If it drew 9.1A, that would be over a Kilowatt that would need to be dissipated, along with the interior heat. |
Refrigerator current load
We measured a new fridge at the store, had to talk the manager into it but I built a box with a cord and outlet and a wire looped outside for a clamp on ammeter.
We got a peak of like 9 amps or so to start but then it went be;ow one amp. However if the thing has not been in service the condenser is not pressurized which does make the compressor draw more. We didn't want to hang around all day so we took the data and went on to other things. This was for a solar powered camper made out of a box truck. The trend now is for a smaller refrigeration system that runs longer. The peak at startup is one issue but there are so many others. Manufacturing costs, weight/freight. It all needs to be considered when you make decisions like that in design. There are drawbacks. I would bet real money that if you put a new and old fridge out on 100º in the sun the old one could cool the food but the new one would not. But how many people are going to do that ? So you might have 80 watts for 6 hours but with an old one you would have 160 watts for 3 hours. The lower drain means less loss of power in the house wiring, and not contributing as much to peak demand. Thing is, after the startup surge, take and run the thing for a couple hours with the doors open. Then you get a worst case scenario value for its current drain. |
Refrigerator current load
Jeff Urban wrote:
We measured a new fridge at the store, had to talk the manager into it but I built a box with a cord and outlet and a wire looped outside for a clamp on ammeter. We got a peak of like 9 amps or so to start but then it went be;ow one amp. Thanks to all. This is good, so I can put some other loads on the fridge outlet. |
Refrigerator current load
In "Tom Del Rosso" writes:
Jeff Urban wrote: We measured a new fridge at the store, had to talk the manager into it but I built a box with a cord and outlet and a wire looped outside for a clamp on ammeter. We got a peak of like 9 amps or so to start but then it went be;ow one amp. Thanks to all. This is good, so I can put some other loads on the fridge outlet. Maybe, maybe not. While typical refrigerators these days pull one amp (or less...) while running, the "frost free" ones use a hell of a lot more during the defrost cycle. I've measured _500_ watts (4 amps) on mine. A meeting hall I work with had a problem where the circuit breaker feeding the overhead lights would overload and open up, plunging the room into darkness. Which made no sense. Yes, I re-measured the load and swapped breakers... On checking further, I found that they had added an outlet which was slaved off the lighting circuit [a] and was being used for a refrigerator. It took some head scratching before I realized that when the lights were on at the same time the refrigerator went into defrost mode, the power draw exceeded the breaker rating. Since the place was rarely used, just about all the time the defroster kicked in the lights were off, so these blackouts were few and far between... [a] installed by a professional and licensed electrician who should have known that Code does NOT like appliance outlets on lighting circuits for exactly this reason. -- __________________________________________________ ___ Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key [to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded] |
Refrigerator current load
On Sun, 12 Jan 2020 18:43:28 -0500, "Tom Del Rosso"
wrote: I expect a large fridge to draw around 5 amps, but my clamp transformer (on one wire of a broken-out extension cord of course) and Fluke together say 830ma when the thing is running. Does that seem wrong? It measures the toaster oven at 9.1A and the fridge light at 300ma. Make and model of the fridge? 117VAC or 240VAC? I can possibly lookup the expected current drain online and do a sanity check. I found a few charts that claim a full size refrigerator/freezer should draw about 700 watts. 5A sounds about right: 117VAC * 5A = 585 VA No clue on the PF (power factor) so I'll use VA instead of watts. If you're seeing only 0.83A, then you're looking at the current drawn by a fan or light bulb in the fridge, not the compressor. Try lowering the temperature setting of the thermostat temporarily to force the compressor to start. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
Refrigerator current load
Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 12 Jan 2020 18:43:28 -0500, "Tom Del Rosso" wrote: I expect a large fridge to draw around 5 amps, but my clamp transformer (on one wire of a broken-out extension cord of course) and Fluke together say 830ma when the thing is running. Does that seem wrong? It measures the toaster oven at 9.1A and the fridge light at 300ma. Make and model of the fridge? 117VAC or 240VAC? I can possibly lookup the expected current drain online and do a sanity check. I found a few charts that claim a full size refrigerator/freezer should draw about 700 watts. 5A sounds about right: Frigidaire FFHT1621TS1 117VAC * 5A = 585 VA No clue on the PF (power factor) so I'll use VA instead of watts. If you're seeing only 0.83A, then you're looking at the current drawn by a fan or light bulb in the fridge, not the compressor. Try lowering the temperature setting of the thermostat temporarily to force the compressor to start. Tthat 800ma is when it's making noise. It's less than 10ma the rest of the time. The other loads are toaster and microwave so they draw zero most of the time. The most unfortunate thing is that all the outlets in the kitchen seem to be on one breaker. I say so because there is a 3 volt drop on any outlet when the toaster oven draws 9 amps. In another room it drops 100mv or less. |
Refrigerator current load
danny burstein wrote:
In "Tom Del Rosso" writes: Jeff Urban wrote: We measured a new fridge at the store, had to talk the manager into it but I built a box with a cord and outlet and a wire looped outside for a clamp on ammeter. We got a peak of like 9 amps or so to start but then it went be;ow one amp. Thanks to all. This is good, so I can put some other loads on the fridge outlet. Maybe, maybe not. While typical refrigerators these days pull one amp (or less...) while running, the "frost free" ones use a hell of a lot more during the defrost cycle. I've measured _500_ watts (4 amps) on mine. That might be a few times a day but my other loads are used even less often. The total is still under 15 amps which is what motivated me to measure it. |
Refrigerator current load
"Tom Del Rosso" wrote:
Jeff Urban wrote: We measured a new fridge at the store, had to talk the manager into it but I built a box with a cord and outlet and a wire looped outside for a clamp on ammeter. We got a peak of like 9 amps or so to start but then it went be;ow one amp. Thanks to all. This is good, so I can put some other loads on the fridge outlet. Newer ones seem to draw less on auto defrost. I think some older ones may draw a bunch, like 10 amps or more. Greg |
Refrigerator current load
If you're seeing only 0.83A, then you're looking at the current drawn by a fan or light bulb in the fridge, not the compressor.
No, I am sure of what I said, that was considered at the time. But if the compressor is not pumping into a loaded condenser the power drain will be low as I stated. Your fans n **** are more like ¼ amp. Go look, you'll see I am right. It just so happens I have recent experience with this. Not many people last year went into a store and convinced the manager to allow connecting an ammeter to one of their new refrigerators. I did. |
Refrigerator current load
Besides the NEC violation, the other reason not to share the
fridge circuit is when/if the toaster/mixer/whatever trips it, and you do not notice, you get was-frozen food. -- A host is a host from coast to & no one will talk to a host that's close.......................... Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433 is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433 |
Refrigerator current load
In general, the best means of deciding how much current a device takes is a peak-holding watt/hour meter. Various devices may be purchased at your local Big-Box, Amazon and any number of other outlets.\
Such devices are also good for discovering real or pending problems with appliances and any number of other items around the house. Why speculate when good data is readily available? Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA |
Refrigerator current load
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Refrigerator current load
On 1/12/2020 10:47 PM, Tom Del Rosso wrote:
Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Sun, 12 Jan 2020 18:43:28 -0500, "Tom Del Rosso" wrote: I expect a large fridge to draw around 5 amps, but my clamp transformer (on one wire of a broken-out extension cord of course) and Fluke together say 830ma when the thing is running. Does that seem wrong? It measures the toaster oven at 9.1A and the fridge light at 300ma. Make and model of the fridge? 117VAC or 240VAC? I can possibly lookup the expected current drain online and do a sanity check. I found a few charts that claim a full size refrigerator/freezer should draw about 700 watts. 5A sounds about right: Frigidaire FFHT1621TS1 117VAC * 5A = 585 VA No clue on the PF (power factor) so I'll use VA instead of watts. If you're seeing only 0.83A, then you're looking at the current drawn by a fan or light bulb in the fridge, not the compressor. Try lowering the temperature setting of the thermostat temporarily to force the compressor to start. Tthat 800ma is when it's making noise. It's less than 10ma the rest of the time. The other loads are toaster and microwave so they draw zero most of the time. The most unfortunate thing is that all the outlets in the kitchen seem to be on one breaker. I say so because there is a 3 volt drop on any outlet when the toaster oven draws 9 amps. In another room it drops 100mv or less. I'd have a little concern about that 3v drop. It could be just a long run of wire, (I doubt it) or a poor connection somewhere between, starting at the box and going to the outlet. Warning I once connected several freezers to an outlet, in an outdoor porch. It was fine for years and then one day a got a burning smell. Tried and tried to sniff it out, but it went a way. A couple days later I smelled it again. I traced behind a TV, I grabbed the TV plug and it was very hot. I moved everything out, removed a panel from the wall. Upon inspection the the outlet crumbled to pieces. The wire from the Circuit breaker box terminated at the outlet, then another wire was connected to the box that went to the outdoor outlet. A poor connection to the box, heated up every time the freezers ran. I was lucky it didn't start a fire. I installed 220v to a sub box and divided that for my freezers after that. Mikek |
Refrigerator current load
amdx wrote:
On 1/12/2020 10:47 PM, Tom Del Rosso wrote: Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Sun, 12 Jan 2020 18:43:28 -0500, "Tom Del Rosso" wrote: I expect a large fridge to draw around 5 amps, but my clamp transformer (on one wire of a broken-out extension cord of course) and Fluke together say 830ma when the thing is running. Does that seem wrong? It measures the toaster oven at 9.1A and the fridge light at 300ma. Make and model of the fridge? 117VAC or 240VAC? I can possibly lookup the expected current drain online and do a sanity check. I found a few charts that claim a full size refrigerator/freezer should draw about 700 watts. 5A sounds about right: Frigidaire FFHT1621TS1 117VAC * 5A = 585 VA No clue on the PF (power factor) so I'll use VA instead of watts. If you're seeing only 0.83A, then you're looking at the current drawn by a fan or light bulb in the fridge, not the compressor. Try lowering the temperature setting of the thermostat temporarily to force the compressor to start. Tthat 800ma is when it's making noise. It's less than 10ma the rest of the time. The other loads are toaster and microwave so they draw zero most of the time. The most unfortunate thing is that all the outlets in the kitchen seem to be on one breaker. I say so because there is a 3 volt drop on any outlet when the toaster oven draws 9 amps. In another room it drops 100mv or less. I'd have a little concern about that 3v drop. It could be just a long run of wire, (I doubt it) or a poor connection somewhere between, starting at the box and going to the outlet. Warning I once connected several freezers to an outlet, in an outdoor porch. It was fine for years and then one day a got a burning smell. Tried and tried to sniff it out, but it went a way. A couple days later I smelled it again. I traced behind a TV, I grabbed the TV plug and it was very hot. I moved everything out, removed a panel from the wall. Upon inspection the the outlet crumbled to pieces. The wire from the Circuit breaker box terminated at the outlet, then another wire was connected to the box that went to the outdoor outlet. A poor connection to the box, heated up every time the freezers ran. I was lucky it didn't start a fire. I installed 220v to a sub box and divided that for my freezers after that. Mikek Yeah, thanks, but I realize that. It's the landlord's fault if the building burns. I have my own insurance. His might be cancelled. |
Refrigerator current load
a) If the landlord provides wiring that is/was to-code when installed.
b) If the code states that a refrigerator should be on a dedicated circuit. c) If the tenant attempts to go around the original and proper installation and/or add additional load than just the refrigerator. It is unlikely the landlord will get dinged 'if the building burns' - as the lawyers will go through the first-cause (you) first. Line drop: is it 3 volts under load? Is it 3 volts in general? What gauge is the wire, and how long is the run? And are there any splices along that run? As an example, we have a 12-gauge, 20 A dedicated circuit to our refrigerator that is about 75' in developed length, no splices. Just for giggles, we have 118 V at the panel, line-to-ground, and 117 V at the receptacle, unloaded. And within the limits of measurement error anyway. Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA |
Refrigerator current load
On 2/25/2020 10:38 AM, Tom Del Rosso wrote:
amdx wrote: On 1/12/2020 10:47 PM, Tom Del Rosso wrote: Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Sun, 12 Jan 2020 18:43:28 -0500, "Tom Del Rosso" wrote: I expect a large fridge to draw around 5 amps, but my clamp transformer (on one wire of a broken-out extension cord of course) and Fluke together say 830ma when the thing is running. Does that seem wrong? It measures the toaster oven at 9.1A and the fridge light at 300ma. Make and model of the fridge? 117VAC or 240VAC? I can possibly lookup the expected current drain online and do a sanity check. I found a few charts that claim a full size refrigerator/freezer should draw about 700 watts. 5A sounds about right: Frigidaire FFHT1621TS1 117VAC * 5A = 585 VA No clue on the PF (power factor) so I'll use VA instead of watts. If you're seeing only 0.83A, then you're looking at the current drawn by a fan or light bulb in the fridge, not the compressor. Try lowering the temperature setting of the thermostat temporarily to force the compressor to start. Tthat 800ma is when it's making noise. It's less than 10ma the rest of the time. The other loads are toaster and microwave so they draw zero most of the time. The most unfortunate thing is that all the outlets in the kitchen seem to be on one breaker. I say so because there is a 3 volt drop on any outlet when the toaster oven draws 9 amps. In another room it drops 100mv or less. I'd have a little concern about that 3v drop. It could be just a long run of wire, (I doubt it) or a poor connection somewhere between, starting at the box and going to the outlet. Warning I once connected several freezers to an outlet, in an outdoor porch. It was fine for years and then one day a got a burning smell. Tried and tried to sniff it out, but it went a way. A couple days later I smelled it again. I traced behind a TV, I grabbed the TV plug and it was very hot. I moved everything out, removed a panel from the wall. Upon inspection the the outlet crumbled to pieces. The wire from the Circuit breaker box terminated at the outlet, then another wire was connected to the box that went to the outdoor outlet. A poor connection to the box, heated up every time the freezers ran. I was lucky it didn't start a fire. I installed 220v to a sub box and divided that for my freezers after that. Mikek Yeah, thanks, but I realize that. It's the landlord's fault if the building burns. I have my own insurance. His might be cancelled. Hope you're not sleeping if a fire starts! My problem really shook me, because of the way the wood was scorched inside the wall. If we had a hot night when the freezers had to run, a fire could have happened. It's a 45 year old house, hmm, it was only 20 years old when I moved in. Mikek |
Refrigerator current load
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Refrigerator current load
Developed length: The total amount of wire in the run. Not the direct distance between the panel and the receptacle, which is less than 60 feet.
Standard Hot/Neutral/Ground 12/2 Romex. And, as the Neutral and the Ground are bonded to the same buss-bar, the voltages are the same. Consider a measuring device (voltmeter) - and it has a margin of error. Consider that at the panel, it is measuring at the bottom of the 118 V level, and at the receptacle, at the top of the 117 V level. That is what I mean by measurement error. Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA |
Refrigerator current load
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Refrigerator current load
amdx wrote:
On 2/25/2020 10:38 AM, Tom Del Rosso wrote: Yeah, thanks, but I realize that. It's the landlord's fault if the building burns. I have my own insurance. His might be cancelled. Hope you're not sleeping if a fire starts! I hardly ever use a toaster oven while I'm sleeping. It's the only 9 amp load I have. |
Refrigerator current load
No idea what you're talking about since I never said it was modified by
me. How did I "cause" a problem by plugging a toaster oven into the other outlet? By adding a second load to what should be a dedicated circuit. Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA |
Refrigerator current load
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Refrigerator current load
But it is not my fault that it is not a dedicated circuit. Nor am I
required to know whether or not it is. The owner is liable not me. Wrong. Two reasons: a) Ignorance is not a defense - that is, and has been, "common law" for over 2,000 years. And, yes, "common law" does apply to liability. b) NEC requires a dedicated outlet for the refrigerator. Ipso-facto, where the refrigerator is plugged in is dedicated. And that receptacle may not be shared per the code. The reasoning may appear circular, but it remains how it would be in a pinch. When I was doing this for a living (more than 40 years ago) we used simplex receptacles for the refrigerator line. So that down-line idiots did not make that same mistake you might make. That and any other 'dedicated' circuits, with special reference to AC, 240 V Dryer and similar circuits. https://static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/53CX77_GC01?$mdmain$ Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA |
Refrigerator current load
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Refrigerator current load
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Refrigerator current load
Cutting to the chase:
a) You have demonstrated, in a public forum, that you fully understand the situation. b) You also demonstrate that you understand the code. c) You also demonstrate that you know that the situation is not up to present code. d) You also demonstrate that you understand that by plugging in a second large-use device, you are creating a risk, albeit a very small one. Feigned ignorance will get you nowhere should that risk manifest. You might not like it, but the other principle of assigning liability is called "Last Clear Chance". Which you also demonstrate as having, clearly. https://dictionary.law.com/Default.aspx?selected=1107 Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA |
Refrigerator current load
Which I could not do, since using no other electrical devices is not an
option. And then there are housing regulations that would ensure the owner is liable. Well, in the awful event that you need to test this belief, I hope you survive the event unscathed, and I hope that you are successful should it go to court. Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA |
Refrigerator current load
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Refrigerator current load
On Thursday, 27 February 2020 17:33:28 UTC, wrote:
But it is not my fault that it is not a dedicated circuit. Nor am I required to know whether or not it is. The owner is liable not me. Wrong. Two reasons: a) Ignorance is not a defense - that is, and has been, "common law" for over 2,000 years. And, yes, "common law" does apply to liability. b) NEC requires a dedicated outlet for the refrigerator. Ipso-facto, where the refrigerator is plugged in is dedicated. And that receptacle may not be shared per the code. The reasoning may appear circular, but it remains how it would be in a pinch. When I was doing this for a living (more than 40 years ago) we used simplex receptacles for the refrigerator line. So that down-line idiots did not make that same mistake you might make. That and any other 'dedicated' circuits, with special reference to AC, 240 V Dryer and similar circuits. https://static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/53CX77_GC01?$mdmain$ Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA why would a fridge [need to be] be on its own dedicated outlet? Such a thing is unheard of here. NT |
Refrigerator current load
On Friday, February 28, 2020 at 7:26:13 AM UTC-5, wrote:
why would a fridge [need to be] be on its own dedicated outlet? Such a thing is unheard of here. It is done to prevent another device from tripping the breaker, and letting food spoil. I suppose Botulism is unheard there, as well? |
Refrigerator current load
On 2020/02/28 7:36 a.m., Michael Terrell wrote:
On Friday, February 28, 2020 at 7:26:13 AM UTC-5, wrote: why would a fridge [need to be] be on its own dedicated outlet? Such a thing is unheard of here. It is done to prevent another device from tripping the breaker, and letting food spoil. I suppose Botulism is unheard there, as well? Electrical code in Canada requires refrigerators to be on a separate outlet (with only a single power outlet, not a dual outlet as well) with their own breaker for just that reason. (irrational rant on) Government electrical safety regulations, who needs them? (irrational rant off) John :-#)# |
Refrigerator current load
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Refrigerator current load
On Friday, February 28, 2020 at 7:26:13 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Thursday, 27 February 2020 17:33:28 UTC, wrote: But it is not my fault that it is not a dedicated circuit. Nor am I required to know whether or not it is. The owner is liable not me. Wrong. Two reasons: a) Ignorance is not a defense - that is, and has been, "common law" for over 2,000 years. And, yes, "common law" does apply to liability. b) NEC requires a dedicated outlet for the refrigerator. Ipso-facto, where the refrigerator is plugged in is dedicated. And that receptacle may not be shared per the code. The reasoning may appear circular, but it remains how it would be in a pinch. When I was doing this for a living (more than 40 years ago) we used simplex receptacles for the refrigerator line. So that down-line idiots did not make that same mistake you might make. That and any other 'dedicated' circuits, with special reference to AC, 240 V Dryer and similar circuits. https://static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/53CX77_GC01?$mdmain$ Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA why would a fridge [need to be] be on its own dedicated outlet? Such a thing is unheard of here. NT I guess this is why Brits prefer warm beer. Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA |
Refrigerator current load
wrote:
--------------------------- why would a fridge [need to be] be on its own dedicated outlet? Such a thing is unheard of here. ** IME, it is common practice here ( Australia ) to put fridges and freezers on a dedicated circuit since they often have high levels of leakage to earth. That circuit would also not be under control on an ELCB or similar. Otherwise, the ELCB needs to be set at an hazardous trip current to avoid outages and food spoilage. ..... Phil |
Refrigerator current load
On Friday, February 28, 2020 at 12:41:19 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Friday, February 28, 2020 at 7:26:13 AM UTC-5, wrote: why would a fridge [need to be] be on its own dedicated outlet? Such a thing is unheard of here. I guess this is why Brits prefer warm beer. No, it's because their refrigerators are made by Lucas! :) |
Refrigerator current load
No, it's because their refrigerators are made by Lucas! :) Prince of Darkness, yes. Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA |
Refrigerator current load
On Friday, February 28, 2020 at 3:55:25 PM UTC-5, wrote:
No, it's because their refrigerators are made by Lucas! :) Prince of Darkness, yes. And he prefers to live in England, thank God! :) |
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