Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems.

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Default Code entry door-lock problem

Internal security door, battery powered, changing battery made no
difference, maker unknown.
For some people would work normally and others would repeat 30 or 40
times and still no delatching, so invalidly locked out.
Normal proceedure is enter 4 digit code , blue light, turn handle and
enter. If red back-light to the keypad then wrong number entered.
What might be the problem, each of 30 attempts session say, blue light
each time and a slight click of a relay or maybe a solenoid , but no
mechanical delatching. Never a buzz sound of say a current limited bad
contact to the solenoid , not fully energised coil and oscillation
effect. Of course try holding the handle down, not holding handle,
forcing handle up/down.sideways, pulling/pushing door makes no difference.




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Default Code entry door-lock problem

On 17/07/2019 3:31 pm, N_Cook wrote:
Internal security door, battery powered, changing battery made no
difference, maker unknown.
For some people would work normally and others would repeat 30 or 40
times and still no delatching, so invalidly locked out.
Normal proceedure is enter 4 digit code , blue light, turn handle and
enter. If red back-light to the keypad then wrong number entered.
What might be the problem, each of 30 attempts session say, blue light
each time and a slight click of a relay or maybe a solenoid , but no
mechanical delatching. Never a buzz sound of say a current limited bad
contact to the solenoid , not fully energised coil and oscillation
effect. Of course try holding the handle down, not holding handle,
forcing handle up/down.sideways, pulling/pushing door makes no difference.




I would first confirm that the solenoid was working properly by
seperately powering it.
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Default Code entry door-lock problem

On 17/07/2019 08:40, Rheilly Phoull wrote:
On 17/07/2019 3:31 pm, N_Cook wrote:
Internal security door, battery powered, changing battery made no
difference, maker unknown.
For some people would work normally and others would repeat 30 or 40
times and still no delatching, so invalidly locked out.
Normal proceedure is enter 4 digit code , blue light, turn handle and
enter. If red back-light to the keypad then wrong number entered.
What might be the problem, each of 30 attempts session say, blue light
each time and a slight click of a relay or maybe a solenoid , but no
mechanical delatching. Never a buzz sound of say a current limited bad
contact to the solenoid , not fully energised coil and oscillation
effect. Of course try holding the handle down, not holding handle,
forcing handle up/down.sideways, pulling/pushing door makes no
difference.




I would first confirm that the solenoid was working properly by
seperately powering it.


Unfortunately its not mine, its inside a venue I hire, but I'm one of
the people it refuses to work with.
The management have brought in the company who supplied it and they
"changed the lock" whatever that means, but the same problem.
I suspect a mechanical misalignment problem due to someone being
locked-out, validlt or invalidly, and very forcibly straining the
door/lock as their seems more of a gap at closure of the door , to the
frame, than I'd expect for a door.

--
Monthly public talks on science topics, Hampshire , England
http://diverse.4mg.com/scicaf.htm
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Default Code entry door-lock problem

On 17/07/2019 08:31, N_Cook wrote:
Internal security door, battery powered, changing battery made no
difference, maker unknown.
For some people would work normally and others would repeat 30 or 40
times and still no delatching, so invalidly locked out.
Normal proceedure is enter 4 digit code , blue light, turn handle and
enter. If red back-light to the keypad then wrong number entered.
What might be the problem, each of 30 attempts session say, blue light
each time and a slight click of a relay or maybe a solenoid , but no
mechanical delatching. Never a buzz sound of say a current limited bad
contact to the solenoid , not fully energised coil and oscillation
effect. Of course try holding the handle down, not holding handle,
forcing handle up/down.sideways, pulling/pushing door makes no difference.


Dodgy keypad? Intermittent connection?

The matrix returns an incorrect digit used in some folks 4-digit codes?

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Default Code entry door-lock problem

It has been my historical experience, having maintained a few hundred of these devices over time, is that moment such a thing starts to go funny, replace it entirely.

Batteries *must* be replaced quarterly - sure, the literature 'suggests' annually, but a low battery will play merry hell with the internal programming, however the manufacturer might suggest otherwise.

Given that in my applications, lives, quite literally, depended on the reliable operation of these locks, I took no chances.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA


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Default Code entry door-lock problem

The cost of those return visits has well-exceeded the cost of replacing the lock outright. Unless there is some level of local interference (not common, but I have seen this a time-or-four), that lock should have been replaced and should be operating flawlessly.

Now, on a couple of occasions, a local machine in operation stepped all over the locks nearby. One being an open MRI machine, the other being a defective hyfrecator. Both cases were solved with by installing shielded locks (and the hyfrecator was also replaced, of course). Do you have any unusual equipment within about 20' of that lock, especially something that is intermittent in use?

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
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Default Code entry door-lock problem

On 17/07/2019 14:23, wrote:
The cost of those return visits has well-exceeded the cost of replacing the lock outright. Unless there is some level of local interference (not common, but I have seen this a time-or-four), that lock should have been replaced and should be operating flawlessly.

Now, on a couple of occasions, a local machine in operation stepped all over the locks nearby. One being an open MRI machine, the other being a defective hyfrecator. Both cases were solved with by installing shielded locks (and the hyfrecator was also replaced, of course). Do you have any unusual equipment within about 20' of that lock, especially something that is intermittent in use?

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA


Interesting , I could see electronics connected to metalwork set in a
wooden door, being susceptible to electronic smog, but only the decoding
side of things or all , not just the power side of the delatching.
But over much the same time as this problem, they installed a unit that
uses the LoRaWAN structure , 850MHZ. It has enough power for city-wide
data capture but limited to a short data-squirt ,probably less than
10KB, every 15 minutes, unlikely to affect this codelock over 30/40
attempts I'd have thought, but it would explain the intermittency. Also
the RF from its external antenna and external generation, has to pass
through an external wall and 1 or 2 internal walls to get to this door.
Whether there is insufficient/lack of choking on the DC supply wiring to
this unit and large amount of RF being propogated over the mains wiring
of the building 4 times an hour , unknown.

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http://diverse.4mg.com/scicaf.htm
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Default Code entry door-lock problem

All it takes is one component within the lock to be sensitive to the interference - and to be "stunned" for some period after the initial hit to explain your 30/40 attempts.

Otherwise, the gremlins have it in for you, personally.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
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Default Code entry door-lock problem

On Thursday, July 18, 2019 at 8:43:55 AM UTC-4, N_Cook wrote:

I have to wonder how any hyfrecator gets thru EMI/RFI compliance tests.


They don't. Medical equipment for specialty surgical use. Not subject to compliance requirements.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

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