Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems.

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Old March 25th 18, 05:09 PM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Default Harman Kardon Citation 17 Pre-Amp One Channel Intermittent

On Sunday, March 25, 2018 at 10:40:02 AM UTC-4, John-Del wrote:
On Saturday, March 24, 2018 at 6:24:03 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Saturday, March 24, 2018 at 5:18:16 PM UTC-4, John-Del wrote:

Is the relay really $80 or were you exaggerating? If it is, replace it with *anything* else that will fit. If you don't have something, I just might.


$79.95, no kidding, but including shipping.




a) There is an "anything else" in there now.



Yes, but I'm sure you could implement another "anything else" solution and have it look fine, work properly, and last indefinitely (elephant-snot glue notwithstanding).


b) I get a tested and warranted OEM part from the OEM maker. The warranty includes labor should it be necessary - 10 year.



A relay should last 50 years IMO. And while that warranty is impressive, I can't imagine how much trouble it would be to get them to cough up labor costs to replace it. Do they go on your word? Do you have to ship the relay to HK?


c) Made with "Matched Reeds" per the OEM spec.



Unless I was building a harmonium, I wouldn't worry about matched reeds....[rimshot] I refuse to believe that someone (anyone) could hear an audible difference between audio switched through an $80 matched reed relay and a $5 reed relay from Digi.


Just ship the board to Computer Components. HK is pretty much out of the legacy repair business. CC was their OEM supplier many years ago, and remain functioning to this day. I have to admit that is much of the appeal - how many such businesses remain viable, and how much is their viability, and the jobs they support, worth?

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

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Old March 27th 18, 10:12 PM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Default Harman Kardon Citation 17 Pre-Amp One Channel Intermittent

In article ,
John-Del wrote:

c) Made with "Matched Reeds" per the OEM spec.


Unless I was building a harmonium, I wouldn't worry about matched reeds...[rimshot] I refuse to believe that someone (anyone) could hear an audible difference between audio switched
through an $80 matched reed relay and a $5 reed relay from Digi.


Especially considering the fact that in this particular circuit, the
audio doesn't go through the reeds during operation! The reed
contacts _short_ the audio to ground when the power is off, is turning
on, or is turning off. The relay is "normally closed", and opens
(un-shorting the output) during operation once the power supply
stabilizes. When you're listening to music, the reed relay contacts
are out-of-circuit, open, not carrying current, inert, silent, and
out-of-mind :-)

The only impact I can see from having non-matched reeds, would be a
slight difference in the exact timing of the un-muting (at power-on)
and re-muting (at power-off). Somehow I can't see a millisecond or
two of variation at those times, as being an issue.




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Old March 27th 18, 10:13 PM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Default Harman Kardon Citation 17 Pre-Amp One Channel Intermittent

Hmmm... In the Computer Components Catalog, this relay is between several mercury devices, but not marked as such. Might explain the price.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
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Old March 28th 18, 12:02 AM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Default Harman Kardon Citation 17 Pre-Amp One Channel Intermittent

"Especially considering the fact that in this particular circuit, the
audio doesn't go through the reeds during operation! "

Some companies prey on audiophoolery. Ten buck peer foot wires, CD demagnetizers and all that.

When are the going to come out with a DVD rewinder ? I mean, for the guy who has everything...
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Old March 28th 18, 04:48 AM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Default Harman Kardon Citation 17 Pre-Amp One Channel Intermittent

On Tuesday, 27 March 2018 23:02:09 UTC+1, wrote:

"Especially considering the fact that in this particular circuit, the

audio doesn't go through the reeds during operation! "

Some companies prey on audiophoolery. Ten buck peer foot wires, CD demagnetizers and all that.

When are the going to come out with a DVD rewinder ? I mean, for the guy who has everything...


done years ago. Google.
Why it was done I don't know, I hope as a joke.


NT


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Old March 28th 18, 01:35 PM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Default Harman Kardon Citation 17 Pre-Amp One Channel Intermittent

On Tuesday, March 27, 2018 at 10:48:54 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tuesday, 27 March 2018 23:02:09 UTC+1, wrote:

"Especially considering the fact that in this particular circuit, the

audio doesn't go through the reeds during operation! "

Some companies prey on audiophoolery. Ten buck peer foot wires, CD demagnetizers and all that.

When are the going to come out with a DVD rewinder ? I mean, for the guy who has everything...


done years ago. Google.
Why it was done I don't know, I hope as a joke.


NT



Yeah, they were jokes.

More disconcerting are the fools that "saw" improvement in television images by use of an external power conditioner. While the conditioner made have had some utility as a surge protector, they had no effect on the picture, which is why most fools bought them.
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Old March 29th 18, 02:44 PM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Default Harman Kardon Citation 17 Pre-Amp One Channel Intermittent

The relay arrived yesterday. About 1" x 1.25" x 3/8" and weighs as much as two quarters and a dime (coins). Six pins. And, it has the original Harman-Kardon part number on it as well as the CCI part number.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA


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Old April 1st 18, 08:55 PM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Default Harman Kardon Citation 17 Pre-Amp One Channel Intermittent

With the new relay in place, the unit is now operating properly and reliably. What I took out, once the elephant snot was removed, was a 12V sub-miniature US-made relay on a 24V system. That it lasted 10 years is remarkable. I Looked it up. No longer made and the company no longer listed.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
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Old December 28th 20, 05:17 PM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Default Harman Kardon Citation 17 Pre-Amp One Channel Intermittent

Follow up from 2.5 years ago. Over the last few days, I did my annual-re-making-of-all-connections exercise on the HK system (Citation 17/18/19, AR M5 speakers, Revox turntable, Revox cassette player, Sony CD Changer, ). Four things arose:
a) The phono-input (17) was fuzzy. Fix was re-solder the right-channel ground on the input jack - HK components of that era are notorious for cold-solders. Luckily it was visible.
b) Minimal hum, both channels, only when the 17 was ON. Cleaned up two internal grounds, went away.
c) The *other* channel became intermittent - but full output from the 17, so, within the 19. Much longer fix - with the wooden stick method, literally poking around. Found the 4-section Molex connector (only two sections connected) was intermittent at the ground. NOT the connector, but the square pin through the driver board was cold-soldered and/or had cracked at the board. Interesting inasmuch as it tested for continuity, but was intermittent in operation Re-soldered - good now. I also re-soldered all the pins on the other Molex connectors - figuring they were all done at the same time, likely by the same individual with the same equipment.
d) The AR woofers both needed new surrounds. Which by pure blind luck, I had sitting around with the proper glue. Took about 4 hours each - mostly as that is how long it takes the glue to set. Better now!


While I was there, I adjusted the muting threshold and stereo thresholds for the 18. The target stations have reduced power slightly, making the adjustment more of a convenience than a necessity.

Anyway, no more troubles. Next: the main system.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA


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