Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems.

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Old March 23rd 18, 03:43 PM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Default Harman Kardon Citation 17 Pre-Amp One Channel Intermittent

Check the tape monitor(s) first.

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Old March 23rd 18, 03:54 PM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Default Harman Kardon Citation 17 Pre-Amp One Channel Intermittent

On Friday, March 23, 2018 at 10:43:08 AM UTC-4, wrote:
Check the tape monitor(s) first.


I will.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
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Old March 23rd 18, 10:36 PM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Default Harman Kardon Citation 17 Pre-Amp One Channel Intermittent

On Friday, March 23, 2018 at 9:54:12 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Friday, March 23, 2018 at 10:43:08 AM UTC-4, wrote:
Check the tape monitor(s) first.


I will.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA


It also appears that the hi cut and low cut switches can cause a complete loss of signal.

Remember since there is no big noise there is no DC involved. It also appears that some of the boards are plug in, all of those connections could be bad.

For the switches, worjk them very slowly to find out if in the out or in position they lose it at any time. Also, wiggle the PC boards very slowly and see if you can duplicate the problem that way.

Going fast doesn't get it sometimes. Also when you clean them, after some vigorous action, then go very slowly looking for any cutout or even distortion.

I found an elusive source of intermittent distortion in one channel of a Yamaha receiver by turning the function switch very slowly, and this was after it had supposedly been cleaned already by someone else. And this was not the first time that going very slowly revealed an elusive intermittent. Fast action and brute force are not the best course of action here.
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Old March 24th 18, 12:02 AM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Default Harman Kardon Citation 17 Pre-Amp One Channel Intermittent

On Fri, 23 Mar 2018 14:36:28 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Friday, March 23, 2018 at 9:54:12 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Friday, March 23, 2018 at 10:43:08 AM UTC-4, wrote:
Check the tape monitor(s) first.


I will.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA


It also appears that the hi cut and low cut switches can cause a complete loss of signal.

Remember since there is no big noise there is no DC involved. It also appears that some of the boards are plug in, all of those connections could be bad.

For the switches, worjk them very slowly to find out if in the out or in position they lose it at any time. Also, wiggle the PC boards very slowly and see if you can duplicate the problem that way.

Going fast doesn't get it sometimes. Also when you clean them, after some vigorous action, then go very slowly looking for any cutout or even distortion.

I found an elusive source of intermittent distortion in one channel of a Yamaha receiver by turning the function switch very slowly, and this was after it had supposedly been cleaned already by someone else. And this was not the first time that going very slowly revealed an elusive intermittent. Fast action and brute force are not the best course of action here.


FYI Yamaha had a whole year of amps and receivers with intermittent
source select switches in the 1990s which couldn't be repaired by
cleaning. They were made by Alps and had to be replaced.

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Old March 24th 18, 02:13 AM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Default Harman Kardon Citation 17 Pre-Amp One Channel Intermittent

"Yamaha had a whole year of amps and receivers with intermittent
source select switches in the 1990s which couldn't be repaired by
cleaning."

This was a Natural sound type with a silver front and wood case, analog tuner. Had the flat knobs for source and tape select.

The switches were the linear type operated by some sort of cam gizmo from the knob.

I remember on that unit the asked why he had to turn the volume up to like 11 oclock to get the same level as his lower powered Yamaha got at 9 oclock.. I had to explain that if they made the linkage on your car so that it was floored when you gave it half a pedal, would it go faster ? That that is a feature, a better control that gives you better control. In this country people often confuse gain with power. The have the volume at 8 oclock and don't realize that some of them were at nearly full power at that point. Extra gain is nice but they took it too far.


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Old March 24th 18, 09:02 PM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Default Harman Kardon Citation 17 Pre-Amp One Channel Intermittent

It is the relay. Tap-on/tap-off.

And, it so turns out that the previous owner had replaced the relay by kluge wiring it on the bottom of the board, holding it down with elephant-snot glue. Which, in turn, was eating the wiring.

In any case, I will order the relay tomorrow and correct the "modifications" made to the board.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
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Old March 24th 18, 10:18 PM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Default Harman Kardon Citation 17 Pre-Amp One Channel Intermittent

On Saturday, March 24, 2018 at 4:02:37 PM UTC-4, peter wieck wrote:
It is the relay. Tap-on/tap-off.

And, it so turns out that the previous owner had replaced the relay by kluge wiring it on the bottom of the board, holding it down with elephant-snot glue. Which, in turn, was eating the wiring.

In any case, I will order the relay tomorrow and correct the "modifications" made to the board.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA



Huh... *I* use elephant-snot glue. It's not as durable as animal hide glue but it's a lot cheaper and doesn't smell nearly as bad...


A new relay (exact fit) is $80 from the same company that made them for HK. Not bad for an obsolete part. but about 10X the cost of a similar unit.



Is the relay really $80 or were you exaggerating? If it is, replace it with *anything* else that will fit. If you don't have something, I just might.

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Old March 24th 18, 11:24 PM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Default Harman Kardon Citation 17 Pre-Amp One Channel Intermittent

On Saturday, March 24, 2018 at 5:18:16 PM UTC-4, John-Del wrote:

Is the relay really $80 or were you exaggerating? If it is, replace it with *anything* else that will fit. If you don't have something, I just might.


$79.95, no kidding, but including shipping.

a) There is an "anything else" in there now.
b) I get a tested and warranted OEM part from the OEM maker. The warranty includes labor should it be necessary - 10 year.
c) Made with "Matched Reeds" per the OEM spec.
d) And, perhaps the OEM maker will stay in business just a bit longer.

Sure, I can get something that will work from Mouser for less than $12, with shipping. But the reeds will not be matched, and, likely it will be from China, and it will definitely not be original. I dunno, this is not a museum-piece by any stretch, but I can afford it, so why not?

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
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Old March 25th 18, 04:39 PM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Default Harman Kardon Citation 17 Pre-Amp One Channel Intermittent

On Saturday, March 24, 2018 at 6:24:03 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Saturday, March 24, 2018 at 5:18:16 PM UTC-4, John-Del wrote:

Is the relay really $80 or were you exaggerating? If it is, replace it with *anything* else that will fit. If you don't have something, I just might.


$79.95, no kidding, but including shipping.




a) There is an "anything else" in there now.



Yes, but I'm sure you could implement another "anything else" solution and have it look fine, work properly, and last indefinitely (elephant-snot glue notwithstanding).


b) I get a tested and warranted OEM part from the OEM maker. The warranty includes labor should it be necessary - 10 year.



A relay should last 50 years IMO. And while that warranty is impressive, I can't imagine how much trouble it would be to get them to cough up labor costs to replace it. Do they go on your word? Do you have to ship the relay to HK?


c) Made with "Matched Reeds" per the OEM spec.



Unless I was building a harmonium, I wouldn't worry about matched reeds...[rimshot] I refuse to believe that someone (anyone) could hear an audible difference between audio switched through an $80 matched reed relay and a $5 reed relay from Digi.

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