This is not really a 'repair' question; I'm just a bit curious about
something and I suspect someone here might know about it.

My car (2012 Ford Escape) has as it's main gauges a tachometer &
speedometer. Both are needles, and neither has a detente (needle rest) at
zero. Despite lack of detentes, when the ignition is turned off, both
needles go pretty quickly to the zero position without passing it.

About 18 seconds later, both needles 'dip' down (to about -500 RPM & -5
KPH) for a fraction of a second and then return to zero.

Why? If a door is open, that's about how long the interior lights take to
start dimming.

On 12/03/2018 9:17 AM, Mike_Duffy wrote:
This is not really a 'repair' question; I'm just a bit curious about
something and I suspect someone here might know about it.

My car (2012 Ford Escape) has as it's main gauges a tachometer &
speedometer. Both are needles, and neither has a detente (needle rest) at
zero. Despite lack of detentes, when the ignition is turned off, both
needles go pretty quickly to the zero position without passing it.

About 18 seconds later, both needles 'dip' down (to about -500 RPM & -5
KPH) for a fraction of a second and then return to zero.

Why? If a door is open, that's about how long the interior lights take to
start dimming.


Sounds a bit like a cap discharging after turn off.

Mike_Duffy wrote:
This is not really a 'repair' question; I'm just a bit curious about
something and I suspect someone here might know about it.

My car (2012 Ford Escape) has as it's main gauges a tachometer &
speedometer. Both are needles, and neither has a detente (needle rest) at
zero. Despite lack of detentes, when the ignition is turned off, both
needles go pretty quickly to the zero position without passing it.

About 18 seconds later, both needles 'dip' down (to about -500 RPM & -5
KPH) for a fraction of a second and then return to zero.

Why? If a door is open, that's about how long the interior lights take to
start dimming.

Might be some kind of stepper motor reset ?

Greg

Those gauges are usually electromagnetic type, two coils, one for field. This makes them self regulate with system voltage changes. Many of the at type simply float anywhere in the absence of any power applied, but different designs of course may act differently.

It is possible that the reading voltage is removed before the field voltage, which would cause this.

In many cars, the ACC voltage is not directly controlled by the ignition switch. There may be a slight delay in the computer turning off that voltage.

Actually I prefer cars the old way. When you turn the switch on the light goes on, when you turn it off the light goes off. i don't need the radio and windows to work after the key is off before a door is opened. One day I will buy a car and it will be an old one. The older the better, to a point. by about 1970 they got the suspension pretty right and they ran right. newer cars are detuned to keep O2 in the catalytic. If they ran at stoichometry the light would go on.

I had to get rid of a couple of cars because of wiring/electrical problems. It is ridiculous.

I also had one car in which sometimes the tach would run backwards. it was a Dodge, which I usually don't buy. It wasn't mine I just drove it. We used to just grab whatever was last in the driveway. Another thing they changed, we had bonds and were covered on any car period, now you have to pay extra for that. Another thing that is new and improved.

But I am pretty sure about those gauges, I am pretty sure if you leave that car sit for a few days especially on a sideways grade those needles would float into another position. But don't try it, the wheels might fall off. LOL

On Wed, 14 Mar 2018 02:14:05 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

[...] I don't need the radio and windows to work
after the key is off before a door is opened.

Yes, my car does this.

Also, when I said "If a door is open, that's about how long the interior
lights take to start dimming." is inaccurate. It should be:

If a door is opened, the interior lights turn on. If the door is
subsequently closed, there is a delay of several seconds until the lights
start to dim, eventually fading out.


And yesterday, the engine 'indicator' came on. I made a garage appointment
for this afternoon, during which I expect to spend time & money. The last
time the light came on was a major repair (cheap part, but lots of labour)
to something deep inside the engine that adjusted valve timing based on
load, etc.

The engine warranty was still in effect, but they tried to tell me that it
was not part of the engine despite being completely surrounded by engine. I
asked them to clarify this with management and they made a "squeaky wheel"
exception for me because I am such a loyal client. (I.e. all oil & tire
changes I always have done at the dealer.) Apparently, the garage paid the
bill, not Ford.

No. Those gauges are certainly stepper motors. You're seeing them find "home". There is no position feedback, so there has to be a regular process of resetting the pointers.

Part of my job is managing component warranty returns for my employer, a vehicle OEM. I see this regularly, I can say with high certainty that the manufacturer paid for the repairs. If the dealer did this, he'd go broke. They work on razor thin service margins and are under constant pressure from the OEM to reduce repair times.

The dealer may have left you the impression that he paid the bill, but they typically won't even start the repair until they have approval for the repair work from the OEM. A large percentage of claims are just like yours, where the coverage is contested and the goodwill is taken care of by the OEM.

On Wed, 14 Mar 2018 09:36:14 -0700 (PDT), Terry Schwartz wrote:

The dealer may have left you the impression that he paid the bill,
but they typically won't even start the repair until they have
approval for the repair work from the OEM.

A large percentage of claims are just like yours,
where the coverage is contested and the goodwill
is taken care of by the OEM.

They were not very explicit, and I was subject to the minor language
barrier of speaking to them in Quebec French.

Everything you say is consistent with what was related to me, except why
would they imply at first that I would have to pay for the repair if they
already had prior approval from Ford to cover it under warranty?

I balked at first when his computer told him that the $800+ repair was not
covered by warranty, and waited until he had cleared up the matter with the
service manager.

Well the dealer makes more money/hour on out of warranty service than in warranty service, so that is the probable reason they would rather you paid than the OEM. Also it takes some time to contact the OEM and get approval, and you were there waiting. Their initial quote was pre-contact.

On Wednesday, 14 March 2018 18:56:28 UTC, Mike_Duffy wrote:
On Wed, 14 Mar 2018 09:36:14 -0700 (PDT), Terry Schwartz wrote:

The dealer may have left you the impression that he paid the bill,
but they typically won't even start the repair until they have
approval for the repair work from the OEM.

A large percentage of claims are just like yours,
where the coverage is contested and the goodwill
is taken care of by the OEM.

They were not very explicit, and I was subject to the minor language
barrier of speaking to them in Quebec French.

Everything you say is consistent with what was related to me, except why
would they imply at first that I would have to pay for the repair if they
already had prior approval from Ford to cover it under warranty?

they wanted your money by any chance?

I balked at first when his computer told him that the $800+ repair was not
covered by warranty, and waited until he had cleared up the matter with the
service manager.

On Wed, 14 Mar 2018 12:51:43 -0700 (PDT), Terry Schwartz wrote:

Their initial quote was pre-contact.

Maybe thay alwys say "It's probably not covered" before they check. It's
not really lying, but it's not really honest. I seem to recall that they
did not, in fact have the time do the repairs that day. They were trying to
set up an appointment to do the reair.

"And yesterday, the engine 'indicator' came on. I made a garage appointment for this afternoon, during which I expect to spend time & money."

You know many auto parts stores, at least around here, will run the codes for you. One time they ran them and it was rear O2 sensor slow to respond and they suggested cleaning it. I did and it worked, never a problem after that.

"The last
time the light came on was a major repair (cheap part, but lots of labour)to something deep inside the engine that adjusted valve timing based on load, etc. "

So you have variable valve timing. Yup, a bit expensive to implement but is really great for performance. I experimented with it before Porsche even came out with it I think. I had this Pinto and found when I timed it one way it had oodles of low end torque, I mean you could slip your foot off the clutch at idle and it would go. However, no matter what gear it was in it would only do about 45 MPH.

Timed the other way is seemed like a gutless wonder and feather the clutch or it would stall. However when it hit a certain RPM it really started to move. I mean really move. It went faster in first gear than ever before. Luckily I did not blow the engine.

I was lucky the way the (BMW built) engine was, the cam gear was at the top and the tensioner was easy to get to without removing anything as I had left the cover off for this purpose, being the experimenter I was. I was able to change the vale timing in a minute without disturbing anything else, even the ignition timing.

"Apparently, the garage paid the bill, not Ford. "

Good, everything is expensive now. And as far as I am concerned it is part of the engine, I would have considered a suit or mediation with a consumer affairs arbiter. To claim otherwise would be like saying speakers are not part of a stereo.

On Wednesday, March 14, 2018 at 11:27:16 AM UTC-5, Terry Schwartz wrote:
No. Those gauges are certainly stepper motors. You're seeing them find "home". There is no position feedback, so there has to be a regular process of resetting the pointers.

Not in my experience but I stopped working on cars quite a while ago. So I will take your word for it.

On Wednesday, March 14, 2018 at 2:51:47 PM UTC-5, Terry Schwartz wrote:
Well the dealer makes more money/hour on out of warranty service than in warranty service, so that is the probable reason they would rather you paid than the OEM. Also it takes some time to contact the OEM and get approval, and you were there waiting. Their initial quote was pre-contact.

I think that was pretty ****ty of them. Some manufacturers might not like that and it could jeopardize their ASC status. I have done warranty work in brownwares and some of them are ridiculous. But this concerns their public relations.

Brownwares?


I think that was pretty ****ty of them. Some manufacturers might not like that and it could jeopardize their ASC status. I have done warranty work in brownwares and some of them are ridiculous. But this concerns their public relations.

On Thursday, March 15, 2018 at 11:25:16 AM UTC-5, Terry Schwartz wrote:
Brownwares?

Stereos, TVs, VCRs, DVD players and such.

Whitewares are washers, dryers, stoves, refrigerators, dishwashers, microwaves etc.