Hi,

Inherited an electronics unit that has severe contact corrosion due to bad alkaline batteries.

Appreciate any suggestions how to restore these contacts to working condition.

Thanks

Ken

On Saturday, February 17, 2018 at 1:05:38 PM UTC-5, KenO wrote:
Hi,

Inherited an electronics unit that has severe contact corrosion due to bad alkaline batteries.

Appreciate any suggestions how to restore these contacts to working condition.

Thanks

Ken


The first thing to try when removing battery snot is plain old water. If the plating is gone, you'll either have to replate or replace the contacts for reliable contact.

John-Del schrieb:
On Saturday, February 17, 2018 at 1:05:38 PM UTC-5, KenO wrote:
Hi,

Inherited an electronics unit that has severe contact corrosion due to bad alkaline batteries.

Appreciate any suggestions how to restore these contacts to working condition.

As has been suggested in a previous thread: (concentrated) white vinegar.

HTH

Reinhard

"KenO" wrote in message
...
Hi,

Inherited an electronics unit that has severe contact corrosion due to bad
alkaline batteries.

Appreciate any suggestions how to restore these contacts to working
condition.

Thanks

Dry corrosion/residue is best removed mechanically - once its clean enough
for reliable contact, give it a squirt of silicone spray.

Don't try rebuilding contact surfaces with solder, oxidisation makes
unreliable contact - sometimes its possible to graft on a strip of clean
metal - solder it on, but don't get any on the contact surface.

Per KenO:
Inherited an electronics unit that has severe contact corrosion due to bad alkaline batteries.

Appreciate any suggestions how to restore these contacts to working condition.

White vinegar applied with a Q-Tip worked for me the one time I had a similar
situation.
--
Pete Cresswell

On 2018/02/17 12:06 PM, Reinhard Zwirner wrote:
John-Del schrieb:
On Saturday, February 17, 2018 at 1:05:38 PM UTC-5, KenO wrote:
Hi,

Inherited an electronics unit that has severe contact corrosion due to bad alkaline batteries.

Appreciate any suggestions how to restore these contacts to working condition.

As has been suggested in a previous thread: (concentrated) white vinegar.

HTH

Reinhard


Actually the EverReady battery engineer I spoke to back in the late 80s
recommended white vinegar:water with a 50:50 ratio, not pure or
concentrated white vinegar.

A weak acid to neutralize a weak base.

And as Peter W. so correctly pointed out, the common zinc/carbon battery
leaks a mild acid and so you use baking soda (a mild base).

So be sure to identify the type of battery before attempting corrective
measures.

John :-#)#

--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd.
MOVED to #7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3
(604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

John Robertson schrieb:
On 2018/02/17 12:06 PM, Reinhard Zwirner wrote:

[...]
As has been suggested in a previous thread: (concentrated) white
vinegar.

Actually the EverReady battery engineer I spoke to back in the late
80s recommended white vinegar:water with a 50:50 ratio, not pure or
concentrated white vinegar.

My experience: concentrated white vinegar achieves best results. But
YMMV ...

[...]
So be sure to identify the type of battery before attempting
corrective measures.

FACK!

Best regards

Reinhard

Thanks everyone for your suggestions!!!

Will try to combine any questions.

"...identify the type of battery before attempting corrective
measures" Unfortunately the person I received the electronic device from removed the batteries and does not remember if the batteries were zinc/carbon or alkaline.

Question: Can baking soda if used on the residue left by alkaline batteries cause additional damage?

Your initial post said alkaline batteries.


On Monday, February 19, 2018 at 9:37:37 AM UTC-6, KenO wrote:
Thanks everyone for your suggestions!!!

Will try to combine any questions.

"...identify the type of battery before attempting corrective
measures" Unfortunately the person I received the electronic device from removed the batteries and does not remember if the batteries were zinc/carbon or alkaline.

Question: Can baking soda if used on the residue left by alkaline batteries cause additional damage?

On Monday, February 19, 2018 at 9:37:37 AM UTC-6, KenO wrote:

Question: Can baking soda if used on the residue left by alkaline batteries cause additional damage?

For the most part, none of the items suggested here will cause damage, even if not the "ideal" solution. Vinegar at household strength is quite mild and will not cause horrendous damage to much of anything if used judiciously.. Baking Soda is similarly fairly inert. Both have indirect virtues inasmuch as they are effective anti-odorants as well as being reasonably effective germicides and fungicides. The key with using any water-based cleaning methods on electronics is the complete removal of same at the end of the process.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

"white vinegar" search

checked the top Google results but did not find any mention to either dilute with water or use full strength.
https://hallmark.custhelp.com/app/an...line-batteries.
https://www.bobvila.com/articles/how...ery-corrosion/
http://www.radioworld.com/columns-an...inegar-is-your friend/323304

John and Reinhard do you have any references for your recommendations?

John-Del,

"The first thing to try when removing battery snot is plain old water. If the plating is gone, you'll either have to replate or replace the contacts for reliable contact"

I hope the plating is OK

Will plain water cause additional damage if the plating is damaged?

Ian,

"Dry corrosion/residue is best removed mechanically - once its clean enough
for reliable contact, give it a squirt of silicone spray"

What do you suggest to mechanically remove the dry residue? It seems to be adherent to the contact surface (not loose and flakey).

On 2/19/18 9:37 AM, KenO wrote:
"...identify the type of battery before attempting corrective measures"
Unfortunately the person I received the electronic device from removed
the batteries and does not remember if the batteries were zinc/carbon
or alkaline.

Simple really. Alkaline batteries leave what looks like white fuzzy
crystals. Some times with bluish green tint.

Zinc Carbon batteries leave what looks like rusty brown sludge. That is
also spread about more and not confined to just the terminals.


--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com

On Sat, 17 Feb 2018 10:05:32 -0800 (PST), KenO
wrote:

Inherited an electronics unit that has severe contact corrosion due to bad alkaline batteries.
Appreciate any suggestions how to restore these contacts to working condition.
Thanks
Ken

Replace them with shiny new contacts:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=battery+spring+contact

If you plan to keep your "electronics unit", consider replacing the
alkaline cells with rechargeable NiMH LSD (low self discharge) cells
such as Eneloop. These types of cells can also leak, but in my
experience much less often.
https://www.knivesandtools.com/en/ct/low-self-discharge-nimh-batteries.htm

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Terry,

"Your initial post said alkaline batteries" Agree, only when questioned found out unfortunately the person I received the electronic device from does not remember if the batteries were zinc/carbon or alkaline.

Jeff,

"Simple really. Alkaline batteries leave what looks like white fuzzy
crystals. Some times with bluish green tint.

Zinc Carbon batteries leave what looks like rusty brown sludge. That is
also spread about more and not confined to just the terminals."

Thanks for the clarification.

closer to 2nd Zinc Carbon

Any way it can attach a color photo? If yes please tell max size (will try to keep as small as possible).

Jeff Liebermann,

"consider replacing the alkaline cells with rechargeable NiMH LSD (low self discharge) cells such as Eneloop. These types of cells can also leak, but in my experience much less often." Agree have never had problems with either NiCd or NiMH.

On 2018/02/19 8:08 AM, Fox's Mercantile wrote:
On 2/19/18 9:37 AM, KenO wrote:
"...identify the type of battery before attempting corrective measures"
Unfortunately the person I received the electronic device from removed
the batteries and does not remember if the batteries were zinc/carbon
or alkaline.

Simple really. Alkaline batteries leave what looks like white fuzzy
crystals. Some times with bluish green tint.

Zinc Carbon batteries leave what looks like rusty brown sludge. That is
also spread about more and not confined to just the terminals.



You could test a small portion of the corrosion crystals with a drop of
vinegar - if it fizzes then it is alkaline. For certainly test another
bit with a drop of backing soda dissolved in water, this time it
shouldn't fizz if the vinegar did.

John :-#)#

--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd.
MOVED to #7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3
(604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

On 2018/02/19 7:52 AM, KenO wrote:
"white vinegar" search

checked the top Google results but did not find any mention to either dilute with water or use full strength.
https://hallmark.custhelp.com/app/an...line-batteries.
https://www.bobvila.com/articles/how...ery-corrosion/
http://www.radioworld.com/columns-an...inegar-is-your friend/323304

John and Reinhard do you have any references for your recommendations?



I'm afraid my information was in a telephone conversation back in the
early 90s when I was investigating the best way to deal with ni-cad and
other alkaline battery corrosion and called a number of battery
companies (this was prior to the Internet). The advice given has been
tested subsequently on countless pinball and video game MPU boards by
many people and the results are positive. I wrote several articles in
our industry trade magazines to get the word out, and have subsequently
posted on my web site more info.

http://www.flippers.com/battery.html

First posted in 1997:

https://web.archive.org/web/19970412...om/battery.htm
(added the 'l' to 'htm' in 1998)

It doesn't always work, the corrosion can be too extensive for
economical repairs, but boards that have been treated as advised have
rarely failed if they worked after cleaning (and corroded IC sockets,
etc. replaced). Boards where traces are missing are normally too far
gone, but have been saved with extensive repairs.

John :-#)#
--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd.
MOVED to #7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3
(604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

On 2018/02/19 9:25 AM, KenO wrote:
Jeff Liebermann,

"consider replacing the alkaline cells with rechargeable NiMH LSD (low self discharge) cells such as Eneloop. These types of cells can also leak, but in my experience much less often." Agree have never had problems with either NiCd or NiMH.


What is the memory device? Some sort of CMOS RAM? Most are available in
NVRAM these days...

John :-#)#

--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd.
MOVED to #7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3
(604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

On Monday, February 19, 2018 at 11:00:34 AM UTC-5, KenO wrote:
John-Del,

"The first thing to try when removing battery snot is plain old water. If the plating is gone, you'll either have to replate or replace the contacts for reliable contact"

I hope the plating is OK

Will plain water cause additional damage if the plating is damaged?


If the plating is damaged, the water will cause rust, but that's the least of your problems. Water will quickly and cleanly dissolve the crud, but if the plating is gone, then you can try sanding the base metal clean and apply a blob of dielectric grease between the battery and the contact to seal the connection if you don't want to spend any more effort on it.

On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 09:56:55 -0800, John Robertson
wrote:

It doesn't always work, the corrosion can be too extensive for
economical repairs, but boards that have been treated as advised have
rarely failed if they worked after cleaning (and corroded IC sockets,
etc. replaced). Boards where traces are missing are normally too far
gone, but have been saved with extensive repairs.

You're doing better at repairing corrosion damage than me. The
problem is that the corrosive fluid tend to narrow the trace width of
traces that are still making a connection. Add a little current
through the trace, and you have a fuse. Also, the electrolyte acts
like, well... and electrolyte. Two parallel traces, separated by a
hygroscopic PCB, with a DC voltage across the gap, is going to slowly
erode one trace, while building up the other. The net result is that
it works for a while, and then craps out again.

I just had both of these effects happen while trying to fix a Rayovac
LED head lamp. I think it was this model:
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Rayovac-Virtually-Indestructible-3-AAA-Industrial-Grade-LED-Headlight/53982706
It's quite a decent head lamp, at a good price, and is rate to be
water resistant up to IPX4 (splashing water). However, there's no
protection against the alkaline batteries leaking all over the PCB. I
gave up after it came back the 4th time with essentially the same
problem.

The damaged PCB is in my "to be recycled" bin. I can take a photo and
post it if anyone wants to see the mess.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 09:25:30 -0800 (PST), KenO
wrote:

Agree have never had problems with either NiCd or NiMH.

I beg to differ. I have had NiCd and NiMH cells leak. The difference
is that unlike alkaline, they don't leak in the package:
http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/Kirkland-AAA-leak.jpg
I've found from dealing with commercial walkie-talkie batteries, that
if I leave the packs totally discharged for more than a few weeks, the
batteries will leak. The good news is that this rarely happens.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Monday, February 19, 2018 at 1:37:53 PM UTC-5, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 09:56:55 -0800, John Robertson
wrote:

It doesn't always work, the corrosion can be too extensive for
economical repairs, but boards that have been treated as advised have
rarely failed if they worked after cleaning (and corroded IC sockets,
etc. replaced). Boards where traces are missing are normally too far
gone, but have been saved with extensive repairs.

You're doing better at repairing corrosion damage than me.

Depends on what you're dealing with. $20 electronics deserve no effort unless it's for the satisfaction. But like John, I've repaired extensive PC damage where the board is unavailable or stupidly expensive. Back in the projection TV heyday, I used to do tons of Mitsubishis that suffered coolant leaks onto double side plated through hole circuits both for myself and other dealers that wouldn't attempt it. I bought a stereo microscope to help identify missing/damaged traces and damaged plated through holes. The TVs were several thousand dollars to replace and the boards were several hundred dollars when they were available. Even so, changing the main boards on Mitsus meant a total realignment afterwards.

You do what you have to do.

KenO schrieb:

[...]
John and Reinhard do you have any references for your recommendations?

Own experience (with alkaline battery corrosion) a few hours ago :-(
sigh ... I have to admit though that my experience is just with the
battery contacts and not with PCB corrosion.

HTH

Reinhard

On Monday, 19 February 2018 16:08:53 UTC, Fox's Mercantile wrote:
On 2/19/18 9:37 AM, KenO wrote:
"...identify the type of battery before attempting corrective measures"
Unfortunately the person I received the electronic device from removed
the batteries and does not remember if the batteries were zinc/carbon
or alkaline.

Simple really. Alkaline batteries leave what looks like white fuzzy
crystals. Some times with bluish green tint.

Zinc Carbon batteries leave what looks like rusty brown sludge. That is
also spread about more and not confined to just the terminals.

NiCd also white


NT

On Monday, 19 February 2018 18:45:27 UTC, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 09:25:30 -0800 (PST), KenO
wrote:

Agree have never had problems with either NiCd or NiMH.

I beg to differ. I have had NiCd and NiMH cells leak. The difference
is that unlike alkaline, they don't leak in the package:
http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/Kirkland-AAA-leak.jpg
I've found from dealing with commercial walkie-talkie batteries, that
if I leave the packs totally discharged for more than a few weeks, the
batteries will leak. The good news is that this rarely happens.

I've had several NiCds & NiMHs leak, but way less often and far less quantity than primary cells. Usually there's no significant damage to the battery holder.


NT

On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 09:56:55 -0800, John Robertson
wrote:

I'm afraid my information was in a telephone conversation back in the
early 90s when I was investigating the best way to deal with ni-cad and
other alkaline battery corrosion and called a number of battery
companies (this was prior to the Internet). The advice given has been
tested subsequently on countless pinball and video game MPU boards by
many people and the results are positive. I wrote several articles in
our industry trade magazines to get the word out, and have subsequently
posted on my web site more info.

http://www.flippers.com/battery.html

First posted in 1997:

https://web.archive.org/web/19970412...om/battery.htm
(added the 'l' to 'htm' in 1998)

It doesn't always work, the corrosion can be too extensive for
economical repairs, but boards that have been treated as advised have
rarely failed if they worked after cleaning (and corroded IC sockets,
etc. replaced). Boards where traces are missing are normally too far
gone, but have been saved with extensive repairs.

John :-#)#
--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd.

While reading this thread, several questions keep coming up.

First, why cant the battery makers design batteries that cant leak? I
suppose cost is the main reason, but it would seem that there could be a
coating of something like silicone rubber or some sort of plastic that
could contain any leakage inside the battery's container.

Secondly, I often read on instructions "Do not mix battery types".
Meaning dont use both carbon-zinc and alkaline batteries together. I
have often questioned the reasoning for that. ??? I am aware that
Carbon/zinc batteries produce 1.5V and Alkaline produce 1.2V, so that
could be an issue with some electronics, but would probably not matter
in a flashlight.

I do sort of wonder if mixing battery types would cause corrosion and
leakage between the two dissimilar batteries, the same way connecting
copper plumbing pipes to a galv steel pipe does. I've seen the
dielectric corrosion occur mostly at the joint between the different
pipe materials, which is the first place for a leak to occur. (They do
make dielectric unions to isolate the metals),

Then the thought also occurs, what wouyld happen if both types of
batteries began to leak at the same time. Would one leaking chemical
neutralize the other, or would the two chemicals react and cause a
reaction, which may produce dangerous fumes, or create heat, which could
result in a fire? (I never studied chemistry, so I really dont know).

Lastly, Has anyone ever come up with a "Battery Pan", meaning an
enclosure around the battery compartment that would keep leakage
confined to ONLY the battery compartment? If not, why not?
In an ideal world, the battery compartment for all electronics would be
removable and replacable, with a universal battery holder (for each type
of battery). This would also be leak proof. I'm sure this could be done,
but once again, we're back to cost. And we live in a disposible world,
so I dont forsee this ever happening.

On 2018/02/19 4:12 PM, wrote:
On Monday, 19 February 2018 18:45:27 UTC, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 09:25:30 -0800 (PST), KenO
wrote:

Agree have never had problems with either NiCd or NiMH.

I beg to differ. I have had NiCd and NiMH cells leak. The difference
is that unlike alkaline, they don't leak in the package:
http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/Kirkland-AAA-leak.jpg
I've found from dealing with commercial walkie-talkie batteries, that
if I leave the packs totally discharged for more than a few weeks, the
batteries will leak. The good news is that this rarely happens.

I've had several NiCds & NiMHs leak, but way less often and far less quantity than primary cells. Usually there's no significant damage to the battery holder.


NT


I've had 100's of NiCad/NiCd batteries leak on our pinball game boards
since the 1970s. I stored these leakers for many years in a couple of
milk crates (didn't want to simply toss in garbage) until the recycling
provided by our city (Vancouver, BC) gave us a new home for them.

John :-#)#
--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd.
MOVED to #7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3
(604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 10:45:21 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 09:25:30 -0800 (PST), KenO
wrote:

Agree have never had problems with either NiCd or NiMH.

I beg to differ. I have had NiCd and NiMH cells leak. The difference
is that unlike alkaline, they don't leak in the package:
http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/Kirkland-AAA-leak.jpg
I've found from dealing with commercial walkie-talkie batteries, that
if I leave the packs totally discharged for more than a few weeks, the
batteries will leak. The good news is that this rarely happens.

I have also had some NiCd batteries leak. But that was after years of
non-use. In fact I had some brand new ones (still in their package),
that got misplaced and years later I found them and they were corroded
inside the package. The corrtosion was confined to the package so
nothing aside from the batteries was damaged, and I just tossed them in
the trash.

QUESTION: What are those coin cells? (like the ones used in computers
for the system clock). Has anyone ever seen them leak? I ask because I
have several old computers that have been sitting around un-used for
years, and I never removed them cells.

On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 17:03:30 -0800, John Robertson
wrote:

I've had 100's of NiCad/NiCd batteries leak on our pinball game boards
since the 1970s. I stored these leakers for many years in a couple of
milk crates (didn't want to simply toss in garbage) until the recycling
provided by our city (Vancouver, BC) gave us a new home for them.

If you trash them, do they emit some sort of dangerous substance? I
would prefer to recycle stuff like that, but I've never seen any place
that takes small batteries like that. In my area. (Yes, they do recycle
car batteries though).

On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 17:03:30 -0800, John Robertson
wrote:

I've had 100's of NiCad/NiCd batteries leak on our pinball game boards
since the 1970s. I stored these leakers for many years in a couple of
milk crates (didn't want to simply toss in garbage) until the recycling

Just curious. It sounds like you repair pinball machines. Aside from
playing them when I was a kid, I know little about them. But I did once
see one taken apart, and it appeared to be little more than a
complicated bunch of relays and lights. And they operated from a wall
outlet. I kind of think there was a power transformer inside, so I
assume those relays and lights were low voltage. (probably 6 or 12V).

So, why are there batteries inside of them?

On Monday, February 19, 2018 at 8:21:48 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 17:03:30 -0800, John Robertson
wrote:

I've had 100's of NiCad/NiCd batteries leak on our pinball game boards
since the 1970s. I stored these leakers for many years in a couple of
milk crates (didn't want to simply toss in garbage) until the recycling

Just curious. It sounds like you repair pinball machines. Aside from
playing them when I was a kid, I know little about them. But I did once
see one taken apart, and it appeared to be little more than a
complicated bunch of relays and lights. And they operated from a wall
outlet. I kind of think there was a power transformer inside, so I
assume those relays and lights were low voltage. (probably 6 or 12V).

So, why are there batteries inside of them?


Well yeah, the early electromechanical pins used relays, switches, and solenoids. Scoring was by indexed reels. Starting in the late 70s, they started using electronics for sound and light controls plus digital scoring and play field animation.

On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 19:07:06 -0600, wrote:

QUESTION: What are those coin cells? (like the ones used in computers
for the system clock).

The CR2032 coin cells are solid lithium and not rechargeable. (The
MR2032 are rechargeable.

Has anyone ever seen them leak?

The CR2032 type cell does not contain any liquid electrolyte. There's
nothing inside that might leak.
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/CR2032-disassembled.jpg
The lithium is the clear stuff, which turned white when exposed to
air. The black stuff carbon.

I ask because I
have several old computers that have been sitting around un-used for
years, and I never removed them cells.

The cells are probably dead by now. I have a pile of 10-20 year old
motherboards in the closet. The coin cells haven't leaked. The
previous generation of batteries leaked all over the PCB.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 2018/02/19 5:19 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 17:03:30 -0800, John Robertson
wrote:

I've had 100's of NiCad/NiCd batteries leak on our pinball game boards
since the 1970s. I stored these leakers for many years in a couple of
milk crates (didn't want to simply toss in garbage) until the recycling

Just curious. It sounds like you repair pinball machines. Aside from
playing them when I was a kid, I know little about them. But I did once
see one taken apart, and it appeared to be little more than a
complicated bunch of relays and lights. And they operated from a wall
outlet. I kind of think there was a power transformer inside, so I
assume those relays and lights were low voltage. (probably 6 or 12V).

So, why are there batteries inside of them?


Batteries are used to keep book-keeping information - number of games
played, number of coins, replay levels, game adjustable features, etc.
The most common chip used at first was the 5101 256x4 CMOS RAM, needed
roughly 2VDC to maintain and usually a 3.6VDC Ni-Cad battery was
installed to keep that device charged.

I didn't toss these batteries as I didn't want to pollute the garbage
with them and kept them under my bench in a milk crate (had two crates
filled over 20 years - they didn't leak enough to make any sort of mess
or odor) and in the last few years recycling got to the point where they
would take old batteries at no charge so we could finally safely dispose
of them - I assumed safely, but not so sure now that I hear about all
the recycling done in 3rd world countries...

John :-#(#

--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd.
MOVED to #7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3
(604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 22:52:30 -0800, John Robertson
wrote:

On 2018/02/19 5:19 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 17:03:30 -0800, John Robertson
wrote:

I've had 100's of NiCad/NiCd batteries leak on our pinball game boards
since the 1970s. I stored these leakers for many years in a couple of
milk crates (didn't want to simply toss in garbage) until the recycling

Just curious. It sounds like you repair pinball machines. Aside from
playing them when I was a kid, I know little about them. But I did once
see one taken apart, and it appeared to be little more than a
complicated bunch of relays and lights. And they operated from a wall
outlet. I kind of think there was a power transformer inside, so I
assume those relays and lights were low voltage. (probably 6 or 12V).

So, why are there batteries inside of them?


Batteries are used to keep book-keeping information - number of games
played, number of coins, replay levels, game adjustable features, etc.
The most common chip used at first was the 5101 256x4 CMOS RAM, needed
roughly 2VDC to maintain and usually a 3.6VDC Ni-Cad battery was
installed to keep that device charged.

Those must be newer pinball games. That open one I saw was probably
1950s era. I suppose they now have more computer circuits. Since you
mentioned CMOS RAM, I see that is true. Now I learned something new

I didn't toss these batteries as I didn't want to pollute the garbage
with them and kept them under my bench in a milk crate (had two crates
filled over 20 years - they didn't leak enough to make any sort of mess
or odor) and in the last few years recycling got to the point where they
would take old batteries at no charge so we could finally safely dispose
of them - I assumed safely, but not so sure now that I hear about all
the recycling done in 3rd world countries...

John :-#(#

Yea, I know what you mean about the 3rd world recycling. Once again, the
government is showing their stupidity. In my area, Goodwill stores can
no longer sell computers or computer parts. I run older computers with
PS2 mice and keyboards. I also prefer the old ball mice. My mouse died
and I went to Goodwill to buy a new *used* mouse. I was told they are
not allowed to sell any computer stuff anymore. It all must go to the
state's computer recycling program. I said "but you should still be able
to sell a mouse or keyboard". I was told they have no way to test them.
(As if it's difficult to plug them into an old computer and see if they
work. (Plus half the other electrical stuff they sell is broken anyhow).

It would seem to me that the best way to recycle things like that is to
sell then to people who can reuse them, but when it comes to the govt.
nothing they do makes much sense.

(I found a seller on ebay who was selling the old PS2 ball mice NOS for
$5.50. I bought one and it was identical to my old one that died, so I
bought a couple more. That's the kind of mouse I like, and I can use
them on a newer computer too, with a PS2 to USB adaptor (which I also
have).

That package looks like it may have been frozen.

On Monday, February 19, 2018 at 12:45:27 PM UTC-6, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 09:25:30 -0800 (PST), KenO
wrote:

Agree have never had problems with either NiCd or NiMH.

I beg to differ. I have had NiCd and NiMH cells leak. The difference
is that unlike alkaline, they don't leak in the package:
http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/Kirkland-AAA-leak.jpg
I've found from dealing with commercial walkie-talkie batteries, that
if I leave the packs totally discharged for more than a few weeks, the
batteries will leak. The good news is that this rarely happens.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

tabb,

"Simple really. Alkaline batteries leave what looks like white fuzzy crystals. Some times with bluish green tint."

Blue and bluish green is what I have.

Have made 2 jpegs of the contacts and since have not received any tips how to attach in this forum Googled and found "HOW TO SHARE FILES WITH GOOGLE GROUPS by James T. Cains"
http://www.dummies.com/education/int...google-groups/ "...click Reply. Click Attach a File."

Somehow attach a file does not show in my Opera Browser or doesn't this forum allow attachments?

On 2/20/18 10:12 AM, KenO wrote:
Somehow attach a file does not show in my Opera Browser or doesn't
this forum allow attachments?

This is neither a forum nor google groups.
This is Usenet news.
Google groups is jut a web based method of reading it.

If you want to post pictures, get a DropBox account, upload them
and post the link here.



--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com

On Tuesday, 20 February 2018 16:48:53 UTC, Fox's Mercantile wrote:
On 2/20/18 10:12 AM, KenO wrote:

Somehow attach a file does not show in my Opera Browser or doesn't
this forum allow attachments?

This is neither a forum nor google groups.
This is Usenet news.
Google groups is jut a web based method of reading it.

If you want to post pictures, get a DropBox account, upload them
and post the link here.

or any other picture hosting site
This is news:sci.electronics.repair.


NT