On Mon, 8 Jan 2018 18:30:09 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:

It's not just an issue of transparency, if the user experience is being
impacted

My point is that the user experience wasn't impacted until *after* the
discovery. Only then did people go, "Oh yeah. My phone /is/ slowing down."
Post hoc discovery is hard to trust.

That's not true. Did you read the Harvard Study which, admittedly, was a
second or even third-order effect - but still - plenty of people noticed
the slowdown - and plenty noticed the phones just shutting off also.

Likewise, the entire point is that the benchmark results were CLEAR and
OBVIOUS that the CPUs were throttled.

What it took people time was to *realize* that they weren't the only ones
secretly, permanently, and drastically throttled.

So the very fact it was noticed is proof it was noticed.

to mitigate the problems of a battery that is degrading prematurely
in order to avoid warranty replacements, that's a problem in itself.

I don't think there's any evidence that batteries were degrading
prematurely on a large scale.

Then Apple apologized for nothing.

Silly Apple. They have so many lawyers and marketing people (the best in
the world) ... it's funny they made a mistake for apologizing for nothing.

And all those silly lawsuits alleging harm. Silly people.

When Apple *secretly*, *permanently*, and *drastically* cuts CPU
performance after only a year of use, why should Apple apologize for that.

The good news is now, moving forward, we all know to basically halve any
benchmark you see for any Apple iPhone because Apple says that they will
continue to halve the performance of their phones after about a year.

Hence, an iPhone X is really, after a year, an iPhone V (1/2 X) in terms of
CPU performance.

On Tue, 9 Jan 2018 01:07:54 +0000, Brian Gregory wrote:

Verbatim quotes:
"We expect the iPhone X to be throttled in late 2018 with replacement
batteries for it back to full price by January 2019."


"exprect" is the keyword here. Speculation by some snews media. This is
not a statement from Apple and thus useless.

The product development of the X was done with knowl;edge of the
batterty problems for the 6s. So it is possible that it was fixed or
significantly reduced.


I understood that this was a problem with the particular batteries
originally used in the iPhone 6 (or whichever one(s) it was) and that
newer batteries were expected have a longer life before their internal
resistance increases enough to cause problems.

All we can tell you is that Apple stated they will *continue* to throttle
phones (literally, to half speed, permanently, although no longer secretly
since the cat is out of the bag).

We can give you the references where journalists have been led to believe
the iPhone X will be throttled to something like an iPhone V (1/2 X) in
just about a year also (see prior referenced quote).

So, basically, from this point forward, you logically can take any
benchmark or phone comparison spec, and halve the benchmark results for the
iPhones, so as to arrive at a realistic "one year later" comparison.

There is no other logical way to compare phone benchmarks at this time if
Apple is true to their word of drastically throttling CPUs after about a
year of use in the future also.

Logical rule of thumb moving forward: Halve every iPhone benchmark result.

On 2018-01-09, Brian Gregory wrote:
On 02/01/2018 16:43, Jolly Roger wrote:
harry newton wrote:

HTC, Motorola, LG and Samsung are
among the major brands quick to stress they see no reason to throttle
the performance of their smartphones."

False. Android phones absolutely do throttle the CPU secretly with no
warning:

https://stackoverflow.com/q/11883404/6540130

Well yes of course the CPU gets throttled to prevent overheating.

Throttling happens on all smartphones for various reasons, but the point
is Android does indeed throttle in certain situations as well. And those
situations aren't clearly documented for Android from what I can see.

Apple is throttling because the batteries seem to age in a way that
makes them incapable of powering the device properly at full speed and
the device then crashes and unexpectedly reboots or locks up.

All batteries degrade over time, and there has been zero evidence that
there is a widespread issue with Apple device battery defects across all
models of their devices. Also, Apple devices aren't "crashing",
"unexpectedly rebooting", or "locking up" due to dying batteries - those
are not symptoms of the problem. The symptom of the problem is the
device spontaneously shuts down in the middle of whatever you are doing
because performance was allowed to spike to a point where the current
draw was more than the battery in its deteriorated condition could
handle. If that happens to be during a critical moment during a 911
call, you're ****ed. Nobody wants their smartphone to spontaneously shut
down. So Apple added a feature in iOS 10 that monitored battery health,
detected when batteries could no longer provide needed current, and
reduced *peak* *spikes* in performance from happening, which has the
natural effect of preventing unwanted shutdowns and extends runtime.
And since only peak spikes are prevented, most apps continue to run at
full speed. Extended runtime on a dying battery is something all of us
want out of our devices (well, those of us without a trollish agenda,
that is).

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a) Jimmy Neutron is not interested in facts, discussion, or conversation.
b) This thread will not die until Jimmy Neutron and its acolytes are ignored.
c) You are preaching to the converted on the one hand.
d) You are dealing with invincible ignorance on the other hand.
e) You will make no converts and change no minds on the gripping hand.

Please let this thread die. Please do not support the troll. And, please, let's endeavor to kill the troll the next time it inevitably shows itself.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

On 2018-01-09, Harry Newton wrote:
On Mon, 8 Jan 2018 18:30:09 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:

It's not just an issue of transparency, if the user experience is being
impacted

My point is that the user experience wasn't impacted until *after* the
discovery. Only then did people go, "Oh yeah. My phone /is/ slowing down."
Post hoc discovery is hard to trust.

That's not true. Did you read the Harvard Study which, admittedly, was a
second or even third-order effect - but still - plenty of people noticed
the slowdown - and plenty noticed the phones just shutting off also.

That "study", which basically amounted to a Harvard student doing an
informal Google Trends search for "iPhone slow" and correlating it with
iOS release dates, has been long debunked:

Sendhi Mullainathan (the author of the "study") said himself:

"Data on search frequency would not allow us to infer intent. No matter
how suggestive, this data alone doesn't allow you to determine
conclusively whether my phone is actually slower and, if so, why."

https://thenextweb.com/apple/2017/10/07/study-apple-isnt-slowing-down-your-old-iphone/

Another troll fail, brought to you by "Harry".

When Apple *secretly*

FALSE. It was mentioned in the iOS 10.2.1 release notes as anyone with a
web browser and half a brain cell can plainly see:

"iOS 10.2.1 includes bug fixes and improves the security of your iPhone
or iPad. It also improves power management during peak workloads to
avoid unexpected shutdowns on iPhone."

https://support.apple.com/kb/DL1893

There's nothing "secret" about this.

, *permanently*,

FALSE. The feature activates only on devices whose batteries can no
longer supply nominal current and only during *peak* resource
consumption, which means most apps are unaffected since most do not
cause peak spikes in performance. And replacing the dying battery with a
new one returns those *peak* spikes back to 100% performance. Nothing
"permanent" about it.

and *drastically* cuts CPU performance after only a year of use,

FALSE. The feature only activates when apps cause *peak* spikes in
performance, which doesn't apply to the vast majority of apps, and only
takes effect on devices whose batteries are at the end of their lifespan
and cannot provide the needed current without prematurely shutting off
the device, which extends the runtime of devices with dying batteries -
that's something most people want. Hardly "drastic".

why should Apple apologize for that.

You should apologize for all of your blatant, trollish lies.

Hence, an iPhone X is really, after a year, an iPhone V (1/2 X) in terms of
CPU performance.

Another lie. Troll, troll, troll your boat...

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On 9 Jan 2018 18:06:36 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote:

Well yes of course the CPU gets throttled to prevent overheating.

Throttling happens on all smartphones for various reasons, but the point
is Android does indeed throttle in certain situations as well.

Despite the Apple Apologists incessant fabricated claisms always attempting to imply that everyone *secretly*, *permanently*, and *drastically* throttles CPUs (to less than half the original speeds!) after only a year or so of use, the facts say otherwise.

Android Phones Do Not Slow Down Due to Old Batteries: Samsung, LG, Motorola, HTC
https://www.bintooshoots.com/android-phones-do-not-slow-down-due-to-old-batteries-samsung-lg-motorola-htc/

Apple Alone: Samsung, LG, Motorola, HTC All Deny Crippling Phones to Preserve Battery Life
https://www.extremetech.com/mobile/261273-apple-alone-samsung-lte-motorola-htc-deny-crippling-phones-preserve-battery-life

We don+IBk-t throttle performance on our Android phones like Apple, say HTC and Motorola
https://www.androidauthority.com/htc-motorola-iphone-throttle-cpu-performance-android-826193/

HTC & Motorola don't follow Apple's idea of slowing down CPU performance
https://phandroid.com/2017/12/28/htc-motorola-cpu-throttling-response/

HTC and Motorola say they don't slow down phones with old batteries like Apple does
https://www.phonedog.com/2017/12/28/htc-motorola-dont-slow-down-phones-old-batteries-apple

Not us! Android makers say they never slow phones over battery problems
https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/android-cpu-throttle-battery-news/

Samsung and LG also confirm they do not slow down phones with older batteries
https://www.phonearena.com/news/Samsung-and-LG-also-confirm-they-do-not-slow-down-phones-with-older-batteries_id101140

Samsung, LG, Motorola, HTC Confirm They Do Not Slow Down Older Devices
http://www.bighugenews.com/post/Samsung,-LG,-Motorola,-HTC-confirm-they-do-not-slow-down-older-devices/

No, Samsung and LG don+IBk-t throttle their devices like Apple
https://www.dailydot.com/debug/android-slow-down-phones/

Samsung And LG Take A Dig At Apple, Claim That They Don+IBk-t Slow Down Their Phones With Older Batteries
http://naturalmakeuptutorialforbeginners.tk/news/Samsung-and-LG-Take-A-Dig-At-Apple,-Claim-That-They-Don%E2%80%99t-Slow-Down-Their-Phones-With-Older-Batteries/

We don+IBk-t throttle performance on our Android phones like Apple, say HTC and Motorola
https://www.androidauthority.com/htc-motorola-iphone-throttle-cpu-performance-android-826193/

HTC and Motorola say they don+IBk-t slow old phones like Apple does
https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2017/12/28/16825288/htc-motorola-dont-slow-processor-speeds-old-batteries-apple

HTC & Motorola say they don't throttle older phones like Apple does as they age
https://androidandme.com/2017/12/news/htc-and-motorola-say-they-dont-throttle-older-phones-as-batteries-age/

Samsung, LG, HTC & Motorola don+IBk-t slow old phones like Apple does
https://www.androidos.in/2017/12/android-phones-cpu-throttling/

Joining other Android makers, Samsung & LG claim to not throttle CPUs as batteries age
https://9to5google.com/2017/12/29/lg-samsung-not-throttling-cpu-battery-apple/

https://www.gadgetsnow.com/tech-news...w/62297075.cms
https://www.gadgetsnow.com/tech-news/apple-battery-controversy-this-is-what-samsung-lg-motorola-and-htc-have-to-say-to-their-users/articleshow/62297075.cms

HTC and Motorola don+IBk-t throttle performance like Apple does
http://pocketnow.com/2017/12/28/htc-and-motorola-throttling-policies-apple

Motorola and HTC Confirm They Don+IBk-t Throttle Older Devices
https://www.xda-developers.com/motorola-htc-dont-throttle-older-devices/

What's amazing is that the Apple Apologists deny what nobody else denies,
which is that Apple stands alone in what they did to *secretly*, *permanently*,
and *drastically* throttle iPhone performance after about a year of use.

And Apple is on record saying they'll do the same to the iPhone 8 & iPhone X
(which makes the iPhone 8 about 1/2 an iPhone 8, or an iPhone IV, and the
iPhone X about an iPhone V, so you may as well halve any benchmark you ever
see on an iPhone moving forward because it will be half the reported
performance after only about a year of use if they follow what their
predecessors did.

These are all straight facts.

On 1/9/2018 10:49 AM, Harry Newton wrote:

Joining other Android makers, Samsung & LG claim to not throttle CPUs as batteries age
https://9to5google.com/2017/12/29/lg-samsung-not-throttling-cpu-battery-apple/

Android devices (at least some of them) do offer a "battery saver"
option. On one phone I have, it can be set to activate when the battery
reaches 15% charge remaining, or you can keep it on all the time. It's a
very noticeable performance hit. But Android devices don't throttle
based on the age of the battery.

I like the idea of a device monitoring its battery health and when the
battery loses a certain level of capacity to advise the user that
battery replacement is a good idea, plus give the option of a trade-off
of performance versus time between charging. Transparency is always valued.

Tesla's plan is to repurpose car batteries, that are no longer holding
enough charge for use in a car, into storage systems where energy
density is less important. But in California, the last thing you want to
do is to use your solar panels to charge storage batteries--you want to
sell as much peak value KWH back to the utility as possible, and if you
have a battery-back-up system you want to charge it with low-cost
off-peak KWH.

On 9 Jan 2018 18:18:45 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote:

There's nothing "secret" about this.

Did you happen to notice an Apple Apology?

Do you think they apologized for nothing?

Did you happen to notice all the lawsuits?

Do you think they allege Apple did nothing wrong?

Did you happen to notice that *all* the Android manufacturers said they'd
never do to their customers what Apple did to you?

Or are you blind to facts?

On Tue, 9 Jan 2018 11:38:03 -0800, sms wrote:

Android devices (at least some of them) do offer a "battery saver"
option. On one phone I have, it can be set to activate when the battery
reaches 15% charge remaining, or you can keep it on all the time. It's a
very noticeable performance hit. But Android devices don't throttle
based on the age of the battery.

I completely agree with your statement, and I extend it to say that all
manufacturers take battery charge *level* into account - but that's
completely different from what Apple did.

The fact-hating Apple Apologists try to claim that all manufacturers do the
same thing, which is like saying all salesmen lie. I'm sure a lot of
salesmen lie, but some are truthful.

In this case, *all* the major Android manufacturers have been asked a very
pointed question - and they all openly publicly and flatly deny that they
did to their customers what Apple did to its customers.

So the real question - the *technical* question - is HOW does what Apple
did differ from what Android manufacturers do?

To me, that's a very important technical question to answer correctly.

I like the idea of a device monitoring its battery health and when the
battery loses a certain level of capacity to advise the user that
battery replacement is a good idea, plus give the option of a trade-off
of performance versus time between charging. Transparency is always valued.

You can rest assured that I *love* debugging tools! As you probably are
aware, I use a plethora of Wi-Fi and Cellular signal strength apps, and I
agree with you that monitoring battery "health" would be nice.

What Apple calls "chemical aging" is what needs to be monitored I think, do
you agree?

NOTE: I took inorganic and organic chemistry and physics, so redox
reactions are part and parcel - but I haven't delved into what's
specifically different about what Apple did versus what the Android
manufacturers do.

Certainly the Android manufacturers didn't throttle the CPU like Apple did
(since they're all on record flatly stating as much).

Do you have a good handle on the precise differences?

Tesla's plan is to repurpose car batteries, that are no longer holding
enough charge for use in a car, into storage systems where energy
density is less important. But in California, the last thing you want to
do is to use your solar panels to charge storage batteries--you want to
sell as much peak value KWH back to the utility as possible, and if you
have a battery-back-up system you want to charge it with low-cost
off-peak KWH.

I agree, since I pay something like $0.45 a kilowatthour peak (last week of
the month) price for electricity where the average in the USA is about a
quarter of that.

But why not just add *more* solar panels to charge storage batteries too?

Most solar panels don't fully run the home (they could, but it depends on
who is paying for the panels in the first place because they, effectively,
make that decision and most of the "rental" agencies just get you into the
lower tiers).

Solar aside, I think the most important fact to differentiate is what Apple
did versus what the Android manufacturers do, when we all know that the
Android manufacturers are all on record stating they'd never do to their
customers what Apple did to theirs.

In article , sms
wrote:

But Android devices don't throttle
based on the age of the battery.

some do. they just don't want to admit it.

others just shut down or refuse to charge:

http://www.androidpolice.com/2017/04...exus-6p-early-
shutdown-bootloop-issues/
We reported late last year that certain Huawei Nexus 6Ps were
suffering from the*early shutdown problem, causing them to die with
as much as 60% battery still indicated. Now, law firm*Chimicles &
Tikellis LLP is investigating the possibility*of bringing a class
action lawsuit against Google on behalf of customers who have faced
this issue.

https://forums.androidcentral.com/go...exus-5-random-
shut-down-loss-battery.html
Well since then the battery isn't so good, and whenever I use heavy
apps (primarily when i try to multitask between them) the phone will
black out and will turn back on with a chunk of battery missing or it
used to be dead.
....
So, the phone shut off and i have a pic of the chart that does show a
sudden drop. This is pretty much a fact of a dendrite is growing and
not software? I wonder how much it would cost to fix this.

https://www.androidauthority.com/sam...ttery-problem-
dead-charge-825899/
Some Galaxy Note 8 users reporting that their phones will not accept
charge.

To kill the Undead, they must have their brains destroyed. Otherwise, they infect others. Jimmy Neutron is well down that road.

On 2018-01-09, Harry Newton wrote:
On 9 Jan 2018 18:06:36 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote:

Well yes of course the CPU gets throttled to prevent overheating.

Throttling happens on all smartphones for various reasons, but the
point is Android does indeed throttle in certain situations as well.

the facts say otherwise.

[list of blogger articles devoid of facts rightfully ignored]

What's amazing is that the Apple Apologists

What's amazing is that you think repeating this broken-record phrase
helps your case *at* *all*. All it does is show your true bias as an
irrational Apple-hating troll.

which is that Apple stands alone in what they did

If Apple stands alone in detecting batteries that can't supply require
voltage and reacting in the operating system by preventing spikes in
performance that would otherwise cause a premature and unexpected
shutdown, potentially at a critical time for the user, such as during a
911 call, then the rest of the industry needs to catch up.

*secretly*

Already debunked. Apple announced the feature on their website and in
the iOS release notes.

*permanently*

Already debunked. The throttling is dynamic and only trims the peak
spikes in power draw, and replacing the battery restores peak
performance to normal.

and *drastically* throttle

Already debunked as well. The throttling is dynamic, not fixed, and is
dependant on app resource utilization, which for most apps is below peak
thresholds.

after about a year of use.

Debunked as well. There is no evidence that Apple's batteries don't last
longer than 3-4 years, and a lot of evidence showing they do generally
last that long. All batteries degrade over time. That's a fact of life.

And Apple is on record saying they'll do the same to the iPhone 8 &
iPhone X

Owners of those devices will enjoy extended runtime when the battery
starts to die, while owners of Android devices will watch their devices
spontaneously shut down when the batteries start to die. I know whose
devices I'm buying.

(which makes the iPhone 8 about 1/2 an iPhone 8, or an iPhone IV, and
the iPhone X about an iPhone Vi

Nope because the throttling is dynamic and not fixed and doesn't affect
all apps, nor batteries that are healthy.

so you may as well halve any benchmark you ever see on an iPhone
moving forward because it will be half the reported performance after
only about a year of use if they follow what their predecessors did.

Complete nonsense.

These are all straight facts.

They are all lies, and repeating them doesn't make you look any less
foolish to rational thinking adults.

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nospam wrote:
In article , sms
wrote:

But Android devices don't throttle
based on the age of the battery.

some do. they just don't want to admit it.

others just shut down or refuse to charge:

User experience be damned. Good job, DROIDs... No thanks, I'll take Apple's
solution with extended runtime.

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On 9 Jan 2018 21:06:03 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote:

They are all lies,

Notice I provide references, and you never do.

I think you're just not used to something they teach kids in high school
called "the scientific method".

Since you're clearly not well educated, take a lesson from me, which is
that you can't call verified facts lies just because those facts shake the
very foundation of your belief system.

On 10 Jan 2018 00:28:28 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote:

No thanks, I'll take Apple's
solution with extended runtime.

Everything Apple does, from the lack of testing of their products in the
real world (e.g., witness iOS 7.0.1 breaking Linux connectivity where Apple
merely said on their support site that the real world was "not
supported")...

To the lack of testing of their products (witness the iPhone 6 shutdowns
which even Apple admits blindsided them) because they never tested the
phone in a refrigerated environment...

To the lack of testing of their products (witness the Mac debacle where
root didn't have a password) ...

To the lack of testing of their products (witness they delivered ioS 10.x
with the broadcom fix in their very hands and yet they *still* touted their
release as a "security update", all the while knowing full well that they
would be *destroying* that release in only 10 days - after millions of
people uploaded it where Apple had to practically beg everyone to delete it
ASAP even though they had the very fix in hand when they released it!)....

Everything Apple does, from the lack of testing of their products, to the
fact they *secretly*, *permanently*, and *drastically* throttled CPUs (to
less than half the claimed CPU speeds) after about a year of use ... shakes
the very foundation of your belief system.

Harry Newton wrote:
On 9 Jan 2018 21:06:03 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote:

They are all lies,

Notice I provide references

References to fluff opinion pieces aren't "facts", dimwit troll.

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Harry Newton wrote:
On 10 Jan 2018 00:28:28 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote:

No thanks, I'll take Apple's
solution with extended runtime.

Everything Apple does ... shakes
the very foundation of your belief system.

Projection.

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On 10 Jan 2018 03:39:56 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote:

Everything Apple does ... shakes
the very foundation of your belief system.

Projection.

I've studied you half-dozen Apple Apologists, and another half dozen
gullibles, where you're not at all like normal prescient adults.

I think you hate facts because these facts shake the utter foundation of
your belief system.

So, to maintain your belief system, you deny the facts, even to yourself.

On 10 Jan 2018 03:39:55 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote:

References to fluff opinion pieces aren't "facts", dimwit troll.

What is interesting is that almost every news provider asked each
manufacturer for a statement, and each Android manufacturer supplied a
definitive statement.

Those definitive statements were widely reported in the news, and *none*
disagree with each other.

You Apple Apologists are the *only* ones disagreeing with these facts.
Why?

I posit that you hate facts that shake your fundamental belief system.

In addition, I posit that you're not well educated, such that you tend to
vastly overly rely on your fundamental belief system rather than facts
which don't support your fundamental belief system.

Who are the Apple Apologists?
*Jolly Roger, Lewis, nospam, BKonRamp, Savageduck, Hemidactylus, etc.*

It's why you Apple Apologists act the way you do - which is sad - because
if you disappeared - the quality of the technical information in this
newsgroup would go up by a few orders of magnitude and the sharing of
factual technical information would improve exponentially.

On 2018-01-10, Harry Newton wrote:
On 10 Jan 2018 03:39:56 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote:

Everything Apple does ... shakes the very foundation of your belief
system.

Projection.

I've studied

You've spent hours upon hours every day trolling a newsgroup for
products you dislike and attacking complete strangers because everything
Apple does shakes the very foundation of your belief system. You're a
sad old fart whose only "joy" in life is disrupting otherwise peaceful
newsgroups. Pathetic old man.

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On 10 Jan 2018 04:52:32 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote:

You've spent hours upon hours every day trolling a newsgroup for
products you dislike and attacking complete strangers because everything
Apple does shakes the very foundation of your belief system. You're a
sad old fart whose only "joy" in life is disrupting otherwise peaceful
newsgroups. Pathetic old man.

You misunderstand me, but it's because we don't share the same belief
system.

You see, I have Apple products, which I buy all the time, just as I have
Android (and Windows & Linux & other products, such as WISP radios that
Jeff Liebermann knows we need here in the mountains).

The difference between you and me, besides our vast education gap, is that
you have a belief system which is vulnerable to facts, while my belief
system simply gets stronger with facts.

That's why you hate me so much, but why I love you.

Harry Newton wrote:
On 10 Jan 2018 04:52:32 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote:

You've spent hours upon hours every day trolling a newsgroup for
products you dislike and attacking complete strangers because everything
Apple does shakes the very foundation of your belief system. You're a
sad old fart whose only "joy" in life is disrupting otherwise peaceful
newsgroups. Pathetic old man.

You misunderstand

Nah. You just suck ass as a human being.

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On Wednesday, January 10, 2018 at 2:25:28 AM UTC-5, Jolly Roger wrote:

You misunderstand

Nah. You just suck ass as a human being.


So, why are you engaging, and feeding the troll?

wrote on 1/7/2018 2:01 PM:

It had nothing to do with avoiding the warranty. Period.

How can you make that assertion?

--

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Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998

nospam wrote on 1/7/2018 1:42 PM:
In article , rickman
wrote:

I think a battery that prevents the device from running at full speed
because the unit shuts down would be considered to be "truly defective".

if *you* were the product manager, what would *you* do, given that
batteries age and there's no getting around that?

Everything wears out. If I sold autos and gave a 3 year, 36,000 mile
warranty and had customers who's cars used a quart or two of oil between
changes during the warranty period, would you think it reasonable that I
said, "engines wear, oil burns, no warranty claim" and then secretly updated
firmware in all my customer's engines, that prevented the oil leak/burn but
prevented the engine from running at full capacity?

No one would tolerate this from any manufacturer.

Harry may be a bit of a odd ball, but he is right that you are blowing smoke
about this. The fact that batteries wear does not mean a phone can't be
designed that won't have it's performance limited by the battery during the
warranty period. Get over it and quit saying "batteries age" like it is a
holy mantra. Yeah, they age and the product should be designed with that in
mind so the product still works 100% during the warranty period.

--

Rick C

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998

Chris wrote on 1/8/2018 1:35 PM:
rickman wrote:
Chris wrote on 1/5/2018 4:03 AM:

Batteries are not covered under warranty unless shown to be truly defective
- not just swear and tear.

I think a battery that prevents the device from running at full speed
because the unit shuts down would be considered to be "truly defective".


Eventually all batteries do that. How the batteries are (mis)used controls
how soon that happens.

I can't imagine you're suggesting that all worn out batteries be replaced
for free, so where would *you* draw the line?

That's an easy one... when they wear out in the warranty period, replace
them as defective. But it may go beyond that since this is clearly a design
flaw. In that case there may be additional compensation since the
replacement battery will also likely become defective in the same way.

Given the typical usage pattern of phones, in warranty battery replacement
would be adequate compensation I suppose.

--

Rick C

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998

On 01/10/2018 07:53 AM, rickman wrote:
wrote on 1/7/2018 2:01 PM:

It had nothing to do with avoiding the warranty.Â* Period.

How can you make that assertion?


Worn out batteries may not be covered by the warranty.

On 1/10/18 8:01 AM, rickman wrote:
If I sold autos

Damn,you're an ignorant ****.


--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com

Brian Gregory wrote on 1/8/2018 8:11 PM:
On 02/01/2018 16:43, Jolly Roger wrote:
harry newton wrote:

HTC, Motorola, LG and Samsung are
among the major brands quick to stress they see no reason to throttle
the performance of their smartphones."

False. Android phones absolutely do throttle the CPU secretly with no
warning:

https://stackoverflow.com/q/11883404/6540130


Well yes of course the CPU gets throttled to prevent overheating.

Why would the CPU overheat? Most computers are designed with adequate
cooling capacity. Overheating in a phone would be very bad. High
temperatures in a phone heat the Lithium battery which can in extreme cases
catch fire.


Apple is throttling because the batteries seem to age in a way that makes
them incapable of powering the device properly at full speed and the device
then crashes and unexpectedly reboots or locks up.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

--

Rick C

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998

joe wrote on 1/10/2018 9:06 AM:
On 01/10/2018 07:53 AM, rickman wrote:
wrote on 1/7/2018 2:01 PM:

It had nothing to do with avoiding the warranty. Period.

How can you make that assertion?


Worn out batteries may not be covered by the warranty.

"May not"? Why wouldn't a battery be covered under warranty? It isn't
specifically excluded.

--

Rick C

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998

Fox's Mercantile wrote on 1/10/2018 9:06 AM:
On 1/10/18 8:01 AM, rickman wrote:
If I sold autos

Damn,you're an ignorant ****.

It's hard to reason with that sort of argument.

--

Rick C

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998

If the battery in your vehicle wore out in that first 36,000 miles, it would not be covered under the warranty. No more so than the tires, wiper blades, brake pads, engine oil, oil filter, air filter, nor any other wearing part, fluid or filter. We are not discussing the phone, hardware or software. We are discussing the functional equivalent of a wearing part, fluid or filter.

NOTE: Some tires, brake pads, batteries and such carry *SEPARATE* warranties. And there is where you would go if applicable. No warranty, no issue.

You have just partnered with Jimmy Neutron and achieved the office of Chief Operating Troll, with Neutron being the Chief Executive Troll. Enjoy~!~

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

On 01/10/2018 08:44 AM, rickman wrote:
joe wrote on 1/10/2018 9:06 AM:
On 01/10/2018 07:53 AM, rickman wrote:
wrote on 1/7/2018 2:01 PM:

It had nothing to do with avoiding the warranty.Â* Period.

How can you make that assertion?


Worn out batteries may not be covered by the warranty.

"May not"?Â* Why wouldn't a battery be covered under warranty?Â* It isn't
specifically excluded.



I said "may" as warranties vary by country. In the US: "This Warranty
does not apply: (a) to consumable parts, such as batteries..."

Go read the warranty for your location.

In article , rickman
wrote:

I think a battery that prevents the device from running at full speed
because the unit shuts down would be considered to be "truly defective".


Eventually all batteries do that. How the batteries are (mis)used controls
how soon that happens.

I can't imagine you're suggesting that all worn out batteries be replaced
for free, so where would *you* draw the line?

That's an easy one... when they wear out in the warranty period, replace
them as defective.

they didn't wear out.

the batteries work perfectly fine in normal everyday use.

only the absolute maximum was limited, and only slightly.

But it may go beyond that since this is clearly a design
flaw.

it's not a design flaw and affects all devices that use batteries. it's
a limitation of today's battery technology.

it's also not just apple. here's one example of many:

https://www.engadget.com/2017/04/21/...google-huawei-
over-nexus-6p-battery-issues/
A federal class action complaint has been filed accusing Google and
Huawei of fraud, breaching warranty and improperly handling customer
complaints after a number of Nexus 6P smartphones unexpectedly shut
down and became trapped in "boot loop" cycles.
....
The Nexus 6P hit the market in late 2015. It's a $500 smartphone with
a 5.7 inch screen that was, overall, a welcome improvement over the
previous year's Nexus 6. As long as it didn't suddenly shut off with
full battery, that is.
....
The Nexus 6P joins a handful of other past-gen Android phones
embroiled in lawsuits over dysfunctional devices, including LG's G4,
V10, G5, V20 and even the Nexus 5X.

In article , rickman
wrote:

It had nothing to do with avoiding the warranty. Period.

How can you make that assertion?


Worn out batteries may not be covered by the warranty.

"May not"? Why wouldn't a battery be covered under warranty? It isn't
specifically excluded.

batteries are excluded because they are a consumable part.

only if it's defective is it covered under warranty. normal wear and
tear is *not* covered.

if the battery fails a diagnostic test (or any other component) it will
be replaced under warranty. if it passes, then there's no reason to
replace it.

In article , rickman
wrote:

Brian Gregory wrote on 1/8/2018 8:11 PM:
On 02/01/2018 16:43, Jolly Roger wrote:
harry newton wrote:

HTC, Motorola, LG and Samsung are
among the major brands quick to stress they see no reason to throttle
the performance of their smartphones."

False. Android phones absolutely do throttle the CPU secretly with no
warning:

https://stackoverflow.com/q/11883404/6540130

Well yes of course the CPU gets throttled to prevent overheating.

Why would the CPU overheat?

because the user is doing something cpu intensive for an extended
period of time causing the cpu to get hot.

Most computers are designed with adequate
cooling capacity.

they are, for normal everyday use. push it hard, such as playing a
graphics intensive game, and it will get warm, possibly very warm.

there are no fans in a mobile phone. there is no room for a large
heatsink on the processor.

if it gets too warm, it has to throttle.

Overheating in a phone would be very bad. High
temperatures in a phone heat the Lithium battery which can in extreme cases
catch fire.

yep, which is why it has to be throttled.

joe wrote on 1/10/2018 9:51 AM:
On 01/10/2018 08:44 AM, rickman wrote:
joe wrote on 1/10/2018 9:06 AM:
On 01/10/2018 07:53 AM, rickman wrote:
wrote on 1/7/2018 2:01 PM:

It had nothing to do with avoiding the warranty. Period.

How can you make that assertion?


Worn out batteries may not be covered by the warranty.

"May not"? Why wouldn't a battery be covered under warranty? It isn't
specifically excluded.



I said "may" as warranties vary by country. In the US: "This Warranty does
not apply: (a) to consumable parts, such as batteries..."

Go read the warranty for your location.

I don't own an Apple Phone

--

Rick C

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998

wrote on 1/10/2018 9:47 AM:
If the battery in your vehicle wore out in that first 36,000 miles, it would not be covered under the warranty. No more so than the tires, wiper blades, brake pads, engine oil, oil filter, air filter, nor any other wearing part, fluid or filter. We are not discussing the phone, hardware or software. We are discussing the functional equivalent of a wearing part, fluid or filter.

NOTE: Some tires, brake pads, batteries and such carry *SEPARATE* warranties. And there is where you would go if applicable. No warranty, no issue.

So, every car comes with a battery warranty. If it fails to start your car
within the warranty period you get a replacement. Why are you arguing this?

--

Rick C

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998

In article , rickman
wrote:

Worn out batteries may not be covered by the warranty.

"May not"? Why wouldn't a battery be covered under warranty? It isn't
specifically excluded.


I said "may" as warranties vary by country. In the US: "This Warranty does
not apply: (a) to consumable parts, such as batteries..."

Go read the warranty for your location.

I don't own an Apple Phone

you don't need to own one to read the warranty information.

here's what motorola has to say:

https://motorola-global-portal.custh...wnloads/AUS-On
e_Year_Warranty.pdf
MOBILE PHONES & TABLETS (³Product²)
....
This Warranty Does Not Apply to:
(a) Consumable parts, such as batteries or protective coatings
designed to diminish over time unless failure has occurred due to a
defect in materials or workmanship. As with all batteries, the
maximum capacity of the battery will decrease with time and use; this
is not a defect. Only defective batteries and batteries that leak are
covered by this warranty.

note the key sentence:
As with all batteries, the maximum capacity of the battery will
decrease with time and use; this is not a defect.

nospam wrote on 1/10/2018 10:02 AM:
In article , rickman
wrote:

It had nothing to do with avoiding the warranty. Period.

How can you make that assertion?


Worn out batteries may not be covered by the warranty.

"May not"? Why wouldn't a battery be covered under warranty? It isn't
specifically excluded.

batteries are excluded because they are a consumable part.

only if it's defective is it covered under warranty. normal wear and
tear is *not* covered.

if the battery fails a diagnostic test (or any other component) it will
be replaced under warranty. if it passes, then there's no reason to
replace it.

Did you read this in the Apple warranty? I'd like to see a copy.

The only test I really care about is running the phone the way it did when
new. If it doesn't do that the diagnostic test is pointless.

--

Rick C

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998