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Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems. |
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#1
Posted to sci.electronics.design,sci.electronics.repair
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Chinese-made reflow soldering ovens
Anyone have any experience or have colleagues who have experience using the
Chinese-made reflow soldering ovens such as those being sold on the evil auction place? The one I've looked at is item number:262955348183 (Model T962). My eyes have become the major challenge to producing the one- or two-off projects, since many of the parts that are available today are only made in SMD packages. I realize that placing them onto the board still remains a challenge, but at least with a proper oven, I won't have to hold a soldering iron steady enough to build the boards. This model seems to be big enough to handle all the boards that I want to make, so that is a plus. Just wondering if this model produces good boards with no unsoldered areas, damaged components, etc. If it can consistently produce good boards, I'll take a chance on one of them. Reading the Chinglish instructions is scary enough , but maybe I can figure it out well enough to make it work. Hope someone can give good advice Dave M |
#2
Posted to sci.electronics.design,sci.electronics.repair
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Chinese-made reflow soldering ovens
On Sun, 8 Oct 2017 15:40:58 -0500, "Dave M"
wrote: My eyes have become the major challenge to producing the one- or two-off projects, since many of the parts that are available today are only made in SMD packages. I realize that placing them onto the board still remains a challenge, but at least with a proper oven, I won't have to hold a soldering iron steady enough to build the boards. With solder paste, if you misalign the component slightly, when the solder reflows, it will magically float into the proper position. Hope someone can give good advice If you Google for "toaster oven reflow contoller": https://www.google.com/search?q=toaster+oven+reflow+controller You'll find a variety of articles on how to modify a toaster oven into a workable reflow oven. For example, here's a list of possible kits: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/favorite-diy-reflow-toaster-oven-controllers/ Here's my version which I use mostly to reflow chronically defective HP Jetdirect network cards: http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/repair/BGA%20reflow/index.html -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#3
Posted to sci.electronics.design,sci.electronics.repair
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Chinese-made reflow soldering ovens
Am 08.10.2017 um 22:40 schrieb Dave M:
Anyone have any experience or have colleagues who have experience using the Chinese-made reflow soldering ovens such as those being sold on the evil auction place? The one I've looked at is item number:262955348183 (Model T962). My eyes have become the major challenge to producing the one- or two-off projects, since many of the parts that are available today are only made in SMD packages. I realize that placing them onto the board still remains a challenge, but at least with a proper oven, I won't have to hold a soldering iron steady enough to build the boards. This model seems to be big enough to handle all the boards that I want to make, so that is a plus. Just wondering if this model produces good boards with no unsoldered areas, damaged components, etc. If it can consistently produce good boards, I'll take a chance on one of them. Reading the Chinglish instructions is scary enough , but maybe I can figure it out well enough to make it work. Hope someone can give good advice I have one of these: https://eleshop.eu/vapour-phase-mini-condens-it.html Bought it when the manufacturer did not yet have distributors, at a somewhat smaller price. Vapor phase is a completely different game. I'm still trying to recover from the "English manuals" of http://www.ebay.de/itm/112168145773?ul_noapp=true , which is a Locky_Z curve tracer: I got some results for JFETs: Some IF3602 pairs: https://www.flickr.com/photos/137684...posted-public/ Some of the new ones from ON, e.a.: https://www.flickr.com/photos/137684...posted-public/ I had no luck so far with 2N2222. Probably they oscillate happily on the tracer and need base stoppers. cheers, Gerhard |
#4
Posted to sci.electronics.design,sci.electronics.repair
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Chinese-made reflow soldering ovens
On Sun, 8 Oct 2017 15:40:58 -0500, "Dave M"
wrote: Anyone have any experience or have colleagues who have experience using the Chinese-made reflow soldering ovens such as those being sold on the evil auction place? The one I've looked at is item number:262955348183 (Model T962). My concern (mainly because I have no experience with infrared) is that the black chips and components would get hot faster than the shiny pins and solder paste. I have an oven that I built using a tabletop convection oven and a programmable timer. It works great but it's using hot air to do the heating. My eyes have become the major challenge to producing the one- or two-off projects, since many of the parts that are available today are only made in SMD packages. I realize that placing them onto the board still remains a challenge, but at least with a proper oven, I won't have to hold a soldering iron steady enough to build the boards. The neat thing about reflow is that if you put the proper amount of paste on each pad, the surface tension of the solder will pull the part or chip in line with the pads. I've developed an unconventional technique for pasting 0.5 mm pin spaced ICs. I put the chip on its back and use my pressure/vacuum paste dispenser to lay a solid stream across each side of the chip. I then hold the chip with some pliers while I wipe the other side with a Q-tip. This removes paste between the pins. Drop the chip in place, populate the rest of the board and reflow. Both my vision and my steadiness of hand have declined over the past few years and this is how I compensated. This model seems to be big enough to handle all the boards that I want to make, so that is a plus. Just wondering if this model produces good boards with no unsoldered areas, damaged components, etc. If it can consistently produce good boards, I'll take a chance on one of them. Reading the Chinglish instructions is scary enough , but maybe I can figure it out well enough to make it work. That thing is cheap enough that if I didn't already have an oven, I'd buy one just to test it. It would hurt only a little to bin it if it didn't work. John John DeArmond http://www.neon-john.com http://www.tnduction.com Tellico Plains, Occupied TN See website for email address |
#5
Posted to sci.electronics.design,sci.electronics.repair
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Chinese-made reflow soldering ovens
On Sun, 8 Oct 2017 15:40:58 -0500, "Dave M"
wrote: Anyone have any experience or have colleagues who have experience using the Chinese-made reflow soldering ovens such as those being sold on the evil auction place? The one I've looked at is item number:262955348183 (Model T962). Original Chinese web page: http://www.tech168.cn/a/chanpinzhanshi/huiliuhanji/2013110256.html Looks like it's still in production. T962A SMD Reflow Oven Fix/Hack http://www.instructables.com/id/T962A-SMD-Reflow-Oven-FixHack/ Maintaining a list of T962/T962A problems, improvements and suggestions how to get good results #76 https://github.com/UnifiedEngineering/T-962-improvements/issues/76 Modifying the T-962 Reflow Oven https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ITZXY5Mipc More videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMwRdEi0iPg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zj1qn476k9o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgPMvaY8ibQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JH8Qd1vv768 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cP2SYn7XFl4 -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#6
Posted to sci.electronics.design,sci.electronics.repair
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Chinese-made reflow soldering ovens
On Sun, 8 Oct 2017 15:40:58 -0500, "Dave M"
wrote: Anyone have any experience or have colleagues who have experience using the Chinese-made reflow soldering ovens such as those being sold on the evil auction place? The one I've looked at is item number:262955348183 (Model T962). My eyes have become the major challenge to producing the one- or two-off projects, since many of the parts that are available today are only made in SMD packages. I realize that placing them onto the board still remains a challenge, but at least with a proper oven, I won't have to hold a soldering iron steady enough to build the boards. My vision has always been mediocre, and it's not improving with age. (The retina detach didn't help, either, but that's mostly fixed now.) I got a compact Mantis on ebay and it totally changed my attitude about SMT. I was replacing some 0603 resistors yesterday and the optics was no problem. https://www.dropbox.com/s/wlim2da8cv...ntis.jpg?raw=1 https://www.dropbox.com/s/fp88o2rqgr...tis2.JPG?raw=1 The imaging is startling, and there's enough working distance for soldering or probing. Or Dremeling. https://www.dropbox.com/s/7bihbjbaoj...82_1.JPG?raw=1 When you can really see what you are doing, steadiness improves too. As people have noted, a convection oven may be all you need for reflow. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc lunatic fringe electronics |
#7
Posted to sci.electronics.design,sci.electronics.repair
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Chinese-made reflow soldering ovens
On Sun, 08 Oct 2017 15:40:58 -0500, Dave M wrote:
Anyone have any experience or have colleagues who have experience using the Chinese-made reflow soldering ovens such as those being sold on the evil auction place? The one I've looked at is item number:262955348183 (Model T962). My eyes have become the major challenge to producing the one- or two-off projects, since many of the parts that are available today are only made in SMD packages. I realize that placing them onto the board still remains a challenge, but at least with a proper oven, I won't have to hold a soldering iron steady enough to build the boards. This model seems to be big enough to handle all the boards that I want to make, so that is a plus. Just wondering if this model produces good boards with no unsoldered areas, damaged components, etc. If it can consistently produce good boards, I'll take a chance on one of them. Reading the Chinglish instructions is scary enough , but maybe I can figure it out well enough to make it work. Hope someone can give good advice Dave M I have one and it works OK. I've done hundreds of boards through it over the years. The instructions are typical chopped up English but understandable and there are vidoes on the net you can watch. It's bulky. You really need about 24in x 24 in work space with good ventlation. No problem doing 2 sided boards. You can program custom profiles and depending on the paste my need one. The profiles can be hard to setup. It does an OK job following the profile but if you hold a temp too long (say board soak) and then try and ramp up the hold temp will fall below at the end and then over shoot on the up hill side. Once you get the profile set correctly it will do a OK job. Do not expect to fill it to the edge with a board. You will not get good soldering at the edges if you do. I think it's 300×320mm max but you really need to think in the 280x300mm range max. If you are only doing a few boards once in a while use the hotplate method. The T962 is big and heavy and will just be collecting dust and in the way. But if you have the room it will work fine for you. Remember you are gonna need paste. I've had good luck with these guys http://www.chipquik.com/store/ -- Chisolm Republic of Texas |
#8
Posted to sci.electronics.design,sci.electronics.repair
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Chinese-made reflow soldering ovens
On 10/08/2017 05:54 PM, Neon John wrote:
On Sun, 8 Oct 2017 15:40:58 -0500, "Dave M" wrote: Anyone have any experience or have colleagues who have experience using the Chinese-made reflow soldering ovens such as those being sold on the evil auction place? The one I've looked at is item number:262955348183 (Model T962). My concern (mainly because I have no experience with infrared) is that the black chips and components would get hot faster than the shiny pins and solder paste. I have an oven that I built using a tabletop convection oven and a programmable timer. It works great but it's using hot air to do the heating. My eyes have become the major challenge to producing the one- or two-off projects, since many of the parts that are available today are only made in SMD packages. I realize that placing them onto the board still remains a challenge, but at least with a proper oven, I won't have to hold a soldering iron steady enough to build the boards. The neat thing about reflow is that if you put the proper amount of paste on each pad, the surface tension of the solder will pull the part or chip in line with the pads. I've developed an unconventional technique for pasting 0.5 mm pin spaced ICs. I put the chip on its back and use my pressure/vacuum paste dispenser to lay a solid stream across each side of the chip. I then hold the chip with some pliers while I wipe the other side with a Q-tip. This removes paste between the pins. Drop the chip in place, populate the rest of the board and reflow. Both my vision and my steadiness of hand have declined over the past few years and this is how I compensated. Technique I've used occasionally that so far has always seemed to work pretty good for soldering say 14 or 16 pin SOIC "surfboards": Use regular soldering iron and thin 60/40 solder to tin the pads. Put the IC down using tweezers and "tack" the top left and bottom right to the board. Apply pressure on the center of the IC using a jeweler's screwdriver with one hand (wear a protective glove!) while blasting the pins on one side of the IC with hot air from a lightweight heat gun for about 10 seconds, back and forth until you visibly see the solder on the pads go shiny. Remove heat and hold for another 15 seconds or so, then remove pressure and let cool for about a minute. Then repeat for the other side. Then continuity test from the junction of the pin and the package to the hole on the board for the mounting hardware. Meter should beep just from light contact without applying any pressure at all from the probe to the pin. Sometimes there's one pin that didn't quite get a solid connection and won't test for continuity without pushing down a bit, but a single pin is easy to touch up by hand. |
#9
Posted to sci.electronics.design,sci.electronics.repair
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Chinese-made reflow soldering ovens
Dave M wrote:
Anyone have any experience or have colleagues who have experience using the Chinese-made reflow soldering ovens such as those being sold on the evil auction place? The one I've looked at is item number:262955348183 (Model T962). My eyes have become the major challenge to producing the one- or two-off projects, since many of the parts that are available today are only made in SMD packages. I realize that placing them onto the board still remains a challenge, but at least with a proper oven, I won't have to hold a soldering iron steady enough to build the boards. I have a toaster oven converted to a reflow oven with a ramp and soak temperature controller. But, for one-offs, I do not use it. To do manual assembly by reflow, first you need to apply solder paste to the board, either dot by dot or with a stencil. Then, you need to apply ALL the parts. If you just TOUCH the sufrace of the board, you will knock parts out of alignment. I can't imagine placing dozens of parts with tweezers without knocking them out of place. I do this with my pick and place machine, but I just take the board off the P&P and straight into the oven, with no fiddling around with the board. I really don't think this is a sane way to do SMT. Using a good head-mounted magnifier (or better, a stereo zoom microscope!!) you can easily place the parts and solder. I put a dab of solder on one pad of each part location, tack the part down and then solder the other lead(s). I've been doing this for years for one-offs, it is faster than through-hole. Jon |
#10
Posted to sci.electronics.design,sci.electronics.repair
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Chinese-made reflow soldering ovens
On Mon, 9 Oct 2017 14:17:15 -0400, bitrex
wrote: On 10/08/2017 05:54 PM, Neon John wrote: On Sun, 8 Oct 2017 15:40:58 -0500, "Dave M" wrote: Anyone have any experience or have colleagues who have experience using the Chinese-made reflow soldering ovens such as those being sold on the evil auction place? The one I've looked at is item number:262955348183 (Model T962). My concern (mainly because I have no experience with infrared) is that the black chips and components would get hot faster than the shiny pins and solder paste. I have an oven that I built using a tabletop convection oven and a programmable timer. It works great but it's using hot air to do the heating. My eyes have become the major challenge to producing the one- or two-off projects, since many of the parts that are available today are only made in SMD packages. I realize that placing them onto the board still remains a challenge, but at least with a proper oven, I won't have to hold a soldering iron steady enough to build the boards. The neat thing about reflow is that if you put the proper amount of paste on each pad, the surface tension of the solder will pull the part or chip in line with the pads. I've developed an unconventional technique for pasting 0.5 mm pin spaced ICs. I put the chip on its back and use my pressure/vacuum paste dispenser to lay a solid stream across each side of the chip. I then hold the chip with some pliers while I wipe the other side with a Q-tip. This removes paste between the pins. Drop the chip in place, populate the rest of the board and reflow. Both my vision and my steadiness of hand have declined over the past few years and this is how I compensated. Technique I've used occasionally that so far has always seemed to work pretty good for soldering say 14 or 16 pin SOIC "surfboards": SOICs are a piece of cake. They're *huge*. Use regular soldering iron and thin 60/40 solder to tin the pads. Put the IC down using tweezers and "tack" the top left and bottom right to the board. Apply pressure on the center of the IC using a jeweler's screwdriver with one hand (wear a protective glove!) while blasting the pins on one side of the IC with hot air from a lightweight heat gun for about 10 seconds, back and forth until you visibly see the solder on the pads go shiny. Remove heat and hold for another 15 seconds or so, then remove pressure and let cool for about a minute. Then repeat for the other side. Remove all solder from all of the pins except one, then tack that pin down and position the part. Go around and solder the rest. Yes, I always use leaded solder (being careful to remove all of the socialist solder from all pads). Then continuity test from the junction of the pin and the package to the hole on the board for the mounting hardware. Meter should beep just from light contact without applying any pressure at all from the probe to the pin. Sometimes there's one pin that didn't quite get a solid connection and won't test for continuity without pushing down a bit, but a single pin is easy to touch up by hand. Your soldering technique needs work if you have to test continuity. |
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