im working on a arcade game board . the tip 120 for an eject soleniod is driven right off the processor leg, no pre -driver transistor. didnt even think that was possible, maybe that why it blew. is there a mosfet i can replace the tip120 with?

thanks

On Wednesday, September 13, 2017 at 11:35:58 AM UTC-4, wrote:
im working on a arcade game board . the tip 120 for an eject soleniod is driven right off the processor leg, no pre -driver transistor. didnt even think that was possible, maybe that why it blew. is there a mosfet i can replace the tip120 with?

thanks

So a 5 V drive? You could look up logic level mosfets on digikey.
Is there a diode across the solenoid drive? (for inductance)

George H.

wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, September 13, 2017 at 11:35:58 AM UTC-4,
wrote:
im working on a arcade game board . the tip 120 for an eject soleniod is
driven right off the processor leg, no pre -driver transistor. didnt even
think that was possible, maybe that why it blew. is there a mosfet i
can replace the tip120 with?

thanks

So a 5 V drive? You could look up logic level mosfets on digikey.
Is there a diode across the solenoid drive? (for inductance)

George H.

The TIP120 is a medium power darlington NPN rated for 60 volts. It has the
reverse diode built in.

In article 1d24b048-8665-4621-bd51-
,
says...

im working on a arcade game board . the tip 120 for an eject soleniod is driven right off the processor leg, no pre -driver transistor. didnt even think that was possible, maybe that why it blew. is there a mosfet i can replace the tip120 with?

thanks

Why not just buy the tip 120 ? They are only from about
$ .50 to $ .75 from several big dealers.

Even ebay has what you want for less than $ 6 for 5 of
them including shipping. The larges cost is the $ 4 for
shipping That the arcade game machine is mentione in.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Qty-5-TIP120-Williams-Pinball-
Coil-Driver-Transistors-/251525068084?epid=1231714050
&hash=item3a900ff534:g:XX8AAOSw8d9UuyQx

On Wednesday, September 13, 2017 at 12:25:30 PM UTC-4, tom wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, September 13, 2017 at 11:35:58 AM UTC-4,
wrote:
im working on a arcade game board . the tip 120 for an eject soleniod is
driven right off the processor leg, no pre -driver transistor. didnt even
think that was possible, maybe that why it blew. is there a mosfet i
can replace the tip120 with?

thanks

So a 5 V drive? You could look up logic level mosfets on digikey.
Is there a diode across the solenoid drive? (for inductance)

George H.

The TIP120 is a medium power darlington NPN rated for 60 volts. It has the
reverse diode built in.

Huh, thanks. I knew it is a darlington, I didn't know about the diode.
Still you might want to add a diode on the coil... I'm a belt and suspenders
type.

George H.

On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 08:33:57 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

im working on a arcade game board . the tip 120 for an eject soleniod is driven right off the processor leg, no pre -driver transistor. didnt even think that was possible, maybe that why it blew. is there a mosfet i can replace the tip120 with?
thanks

I don't like using darlingtons for power drivers. A momentary shorted
load, and the darlington blows up from too much current. This article
should provide some detail:
http://www.sensitiveresearch.com/elec/DoNotTIP/index.html
I can't offer any specific recommendations without some clue as to the
processor output voltage and current capabilities, the solenoid specs,
and the operating voltage.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Wednesday, September 13, 2017 at 8:29:21 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 08:33:57 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

im working on a arcade game board . the tip 120 for an eject soleniod is driven right off the processor leg, no pre -driver transistor. didnt even think that was possible, maybe that why it blew. is there a mosfet i can replace the tip120 with?
thanks

I don't like using darlingtons for power drivers. A momentary shorted
load, and the darlington blows up from too much current. This article
should provide some detail:
http://www.sensitiveresearch.com/elec/DoNotTIP/index.html
I can't offer any specific recommendations without some clue as to the
processor output voltage and current capabilities, the solenoid specs,
and the operating voltage.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

I use a TIP120 in a lamp heater (Rubidium lamp). It's nailed
right to the lamp housing (besides a power resistor that shares the work.)
Works great. It must be a fairly robust piece of silicon, 'cause I've used it to raise the lamp temperature to 150 C and let it run for days like that.
(typical operation temp is 120 C.. for years.)

George H.

On Wednesday, September 13, 2017 at 8:29:21 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 08:33:57 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

im working on a arcade game board . the tip 120 for an eject soleniod is driven right off the processor leg, no pre -driver transistor. didnt even think that was possible, maybe that why it blew. is there a mosfet i can replace the tip120 with?
thanks

I don't like using darlingtons for power drivers. A momentary shorted
load, and the darlington blows up from too much current. This article
should provide some detail:
http://www.sensitiveresearch.com/elec/DoNotTIP/index.html
I can't offer any specific recommendations without some clue as to the
processor output voltage and current capabilities, the solenoid specs,
and the operating voltage.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558



I wouldn't worry about using a Darlington as a coil driver. Arcade games are generally quite robust (the monitors generally the weakest point) and they've been using them for years with no issues. They used to use relays or even high current leaf switches to drive coils but relays and switches have a finite life.

On 2017/09/14 6:46 AM, John-Del wrote:
On Wednesday, September 13, 2017 at 8:29:21 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 08:33:57 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

im working on a arcade game board . the tip 120 for an eject soleniod is driven right off the processor leg, no pre -driver transistor. didnt even think that was possible, maybe that why it blew. is there a mosfet i can replace the tip120 with?
thanks

I don't like using darlingtons for power drivers. A momentary shorted
load, and the darlington blows up from too much current. This article
should provide some detail:
http://www.sensitiveresearch.com/elec/DoNotTIP/index.html
I can't offer any specific recommendations without some clue as to the
processor output voltage and current capabilities, the solenoid specs,
and the operating voltage.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558



I wouldn't worry about using a Darlington as a coil driver. Arcade games are generally quite robust (the monitors generally the weakest point) and they've been using them for years with no issues. They used to use relays or even high current leaf switches to drive coils but relays and switches have a finite life.


Well, actually. no, arcade games (pinball games) using TIPs and other
BJTs have a nasty habit of failing and cooking their coils and the
circuit board. Many of us in the trade are getting around to finally
ripping out all these dinosaurs and replacing them with modern devices.
It has taken me far too long to realize I am not doing customers a
favour by leaving old tech in their games. As the link Jeff provided you
get up to 4VDC drop across the BJT so a MOSFET with less than 1V drop
will give you more pop too!

Most of the aftermarket replacement boards are using MOSFETs except for
a few holdouts whose quality suffers in other areas too.

Still for the OP who has a CHEXX game the TIP120 should last forever, it
has at most a 1A draw, and we have never replaced one in the 30 odd
years I've been servicing CHEXX boards.

John :-#)#
--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd.
MOVED to #7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3
(604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

On Thursday, September 14, 2017 at 1:10:23 PM UTC-4, John Robertson wrote:
On 2017/09/14 6:46 AM, John-Del wrote:
On Wednesday, September 13, 2017 at 8:29:21 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 08:33:57 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

im working on a arcade game board . the tip 120 for an eject soleniod is driven right off the processor leg, no pre -driver transistor. didnt even think that was possible, maybe that why it blew. is there a mosfet i can replace the tip120 with?
thanks

I don't like using darlingtons for power drivers. A momentary shorted
load, and the darlington blows up from too much current. This article
should provide some detail:
http://www.sensitiveresearch.com/elec/DoNotTIP/index.html
I can't offer any specific recommendations without some clue as to the
processor output voltage and current capabilities, the solenoid specs,
and the operating voltage.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558



I wouldn't worry about using a Darlington as a coil driver. Arcade games are generally quite robust (the monitors generally the weakest point) and they've been using them for years with no issues. They used to use relays or even high current leaf switches to drive coils but relays and switches have a finite life.


Well, actually. no, arcade games (pinball games) using TIPs and other
BJTs have a nasty habit of failing and cooking their coils and the
circuit board. Many of us in the trade are getting around to finally
ripping out all these dinosaurs and replacing them with modern devices.
It has taken me far too long to realize I am not doing customers a
favour by leaving old tech in their games. As the link Jeff provided you
get up to 4VDC drop across the BJT so a MOSFET with less than 1V drop
will give you more pop too!

Most of the aftermarket replacement boards are using MOSFETs except for
a few holdouts whose quality suffers in other areas too.

Still for the OP who has a CHEXX game the TIP120 should last forever, it
has at most a 1A draw, and we have never replaced one in the 30 odd
years I've been servicing CHEXX boards.

John :-#)#
--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd.
MOVED to #7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3
(604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."


From about 1982 until he sold the company about 8 years ago, I did all the electrical work for a vendor who became a very good friend of mine. The vast majority of the work I did for him were monitor failures. Most of the electrical work he did was swapping out game boards, converting cabinets and replacing hard drives. He would shop the pinballs as they were rotated or were pulled for failures and if there was a problem beyond lamps, rubbers, solenoids etc. I'd get the board.

I rarely saw shorted Darlingtons. I agree that MosFets are better suited to switching, but other than upgrading the ratings of the replacements, we never felt the need to do wholesale replacements of Darlingtons that would most likely last the life of the game. It was far easier to deal with them individually.

On 2017/09/14 2:57 PM, John-Del wrote:
On Thursday, September 14, 2017 at 1:10:23 PM UTC-4, John Robertson wrote:
On 2017/09/14 6:46 AM, John-Del wrote:
On Wednesday, September 13, 2017 at 8:29:21 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 08:33:57 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

im working on a arcade game board . the tip 120 for an eject soleniod is driven right off the processor leg, no pre -driver transistor. didnt even think that was possible, maybe that why it blew. is there a mosfet i can replace the tip120 with?
thanks

I don't like using darlingtons for power drivers. A momentary shorted
load, and the darlington blows up from too much current. This article
should provide some detail:
http://www.sensitiveresearch.com/elec/DoNotTIP/index.html
I can't offer any specific recommendations without some clue as to the
processor output voltage and current capabilities, the solenoid specs,
and the operating voltage.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558



I wouldn't worry about using a Darlington as a coil driver. Arcade games are generally quite robust (the monitors generally the weakest point) and they've been using them for years with no issues. They used to use relays or even high current leaf switches to drive coils but relays and switches have a finite life.


Well, actually. no, arcade games (pinball games) using TIPs and other
BJTs have a nasty habit of failing and cooking their coils and the
circuit board. Many of us in the trade are getting around to finally
ripping out all these dinosaurs and replacing them with modern devices.
It has taken me far too long to realize I am not doing customers a
favour by leaving old tech in their games. As the link Jeff provided you
get up to 4VDC drop across the BJT so a MOSFET with less than 1V drop
will give you more pop too!

Most of the aftermarket replacement boards are using MOSFETs except for
a few holdouts whose quality suffers in other areas too.

Still for the OP who has a CHEXX game the TIP120 should last forever, it
has at most a 1A draw, and we have never replaced one in the 30 odd
years I've been servicing CHEXX boards.

John :-#)#
--


From about 1982 until he sold the company about 8 years ago, I did all the electrical work for a vendor who became a very good friend of mine. The vast majority of the work I did for him were monitor failures. Most of the electrical work he did was swapping out game boards, converting cabinets and replacing hard drives. He would shop the pinballs as they were rotated or were pulled for failures and if there was a problem beyond lamps, rubbers, solenoids etc. I'd get the board.

I rarely saw shorted Darlingtons. I agree that MosFets are better suited to switching, but other than upgrading the ratings of the replacements, we never felt the need to do wholesale replacements of Darlingtons that would most likely last the life of the game. It was far easier to deal with them individually.


I hear what you are saying, but when you run into boards where most of
the transistors show signs of overheating the PCB (Atari lamp driver Aux
board for example) then one considers replacing the old BJTs with more
modern devices to improve the expected lifespan.

John :-#)#

--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd.
MOVED to #7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3
(604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

On Thursday, September 14, 2017 at 6:15:15 PM UTC-4, John Robertson wrote:
On 2017/09/14 2:57 PM, John-Del wrote:
On Thursday, September 14, 2017 at 1:10:23 PM UTC-4, John Robertson wrote:
On 2017/09/14 6:46 AM, John-Del wrote:
On Wednesday, September 13, 2017 at 8:29:21 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 08:33:57 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

im working on a arcade game board . the tip 120 for an eject soleniod is driven right off the processor leg, no pre -driver transistor. didnt even think that was possible, maybe that why it blew. is there a mosfet i can replace the tip120 with?
thanks

I don't like using darlingtons for power drivers. A momentary shorted
load, and the darlington blows up from too much current. This article
should provide some detail:
http://www.sensitiveresearch.com/elec/DoNotTIP/index.html
I can't offer any specific recommendations without some clue as to the
processor output voltage and current capabilities, the solenoid specs,
and the operating voltage.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558



I wouldn't worry about using a Darlington as a coil driver. Arcade games are generally quite robust (the monitors generally the weakest point) and they've been using them for years with no issues. They used to use relays or even high current leaf switches to drive coils but relays and switches have a finite life.


Well, actually. no, arcade games (pinball games) using TIPs and other
BJTs have a nasty habit of failing and cooking their coils and the
circuit board. Many of us in the trade are getting around to finally
ripping out all these dinosaurs and replacing them with modern devices..
It has taken me far too long to realize I am not doing customers a
favour by leaving old tech in their games. As the link Jeff provided you
get up to 4VDC drop across the BJT so a MOSFET with less than 1V drop
will give you more pop too!

Most of the aftermarket replacement boards are using MOSFETs except for
a few holdouts whose quality suffers in other areas too.

Still for the OP who has a CHEXX game the TIP120 should last forever, it
has at most a 1A draw, and we have never replaced one in the 30 odd
years I've been servicing CHEXX boards.

John :-#)#
--


From about 1982 until he sold the company about 8 years ago, I did all the electrical work for a vendor who became a very good friend of mine. The vast majority of the work I did for him were monitor failures. Most of the electrical work he did was swapping out game boards, converting cabinets and replacing hard drives. He would shop the pinballs as they were rotated or were pulled for failures and if there was a problem beyond lamps, rubbers, solenoids etc. I'd get the board.

I rarely saw shorted Darlingtons. I agree that MosFets are better suited to switching, but other than upgrading the ratings of the replacements, we never felt the need to do wholesale replacements of Darlingtons that would most likely last the life of the game. It was far easier to deal with them individually.


I hear what you are saying, but when you run into boards where most of
the transistors show signs of overheating the PCB (Atari lamp driver Aux
board for example) then one considers replacing the old BJTs with more
modern devices to improve the expected lifespan.

John :-#)#

Wow, that triggered an old memory. I do remember adding heatsinks to all the TO-202 free standing driver transistors on certain boards many years ago, but don't recall which one. Stern pin maybe?

But I suppose changing all the transistors over to mosfets in 30 year old games in 2017 is analogous to doing wholesale capacitor replacement in old radios. I guess age catches up to everything.