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#41
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Decimal Time
Jeff Liebermann wrote on 9/2/2017 7:35 PM:
On Sat, 2 Sep 2017 18:10:00 -0400, rickman wrote: Jeff Liebermann wrote on 9/2/2017 3:03 PM: Why don't you just declare that the ratio of the circumference to the diameter of a circle is exactly 3.0 instead of 3.14159...? I think it would be easier than changing to decimal time. I'm for it. Excellent. How will you get the circle to agree? Not a problem. Just put a flat spot (chord) somewhere on the circumference. That will shorten the circumference sufficiently so that the ratio equals exactly 3.0. Please feel free to name such a flattened circle in my honor. The newly established Bureau of Decimation should then declare that the official US circle will have a flat spot. I think that circle is already in use. I've seen shafts that shape and once in awhile I see tires that shape. Heck, I saw one the other day that was on a wheelbarrow. The story was that it was filled with polyurethane foam instead of air and sat too long while curing. lol -- Rick C Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms, on the centerline of totality since 1998 |
#42
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Decimal Time
Clifford Heath wrote on 9/2/2017 7:37 PM:
On 01/09/17 12:36, rickman wrote: Tom Biasi wrote on 8/31/2017 10:16 PM: On 8/31/2017 10:00 PM, rickman wrote: Someone was talking about decimal time where the second is shortened by about 15% allowing 100 secs/minute, 100 minutes/hr, 10 hr/day. I think the utility of this is limited and it would cause a lot of changes in society. We presently have a large number of convenient time increments which would not be so convenient in the new system. First, the hour would be 2.4 times longer leaving us with no convenient unit about the same length of time as the hour. The closest would be the quad-deci-hour which would be 0.96 old hours. The deci-hour would be pretty convenient about 4% shorter than a quarter hour. The old half hour would now be about a fifth of a new hour, so we could call it a "fifth" which might become confused with a non-metric liquor measure, a fifth of a gallon which has since become 750 ml in metric. The inconvenience would come from the need to totally recalibrate every type of measurement we use that considers time... speed limits, work days, time zones... Would we extend this change to measurements of angles which often are done in degrees, minutes, seconds? How would we adjust the work day? Do we go to 3 hour work days which would be about 7.2 old hours? Shift work would have to split hours to get three shifts while some businesses that use two 12 old hour shifts would hum along just fine with 5 new hour shifts. Many businesses opening at 9 AM would now open at 4:00 (I assume we would just count 0 to 9 hours rather than the annoying AM/PM thing), folks would take a lunch break at 5:00 and banks would close around 6:00 while retail would remain open until 9:00 or 9:50 (hmmm, that is still about the same). The minutes gets pretty whacked gaining 26.4 old seconds. So "give me a minute" becomes a quarter more weighty of a request. The original pulse was conceived to match the human pulse so our normal pulse rate will become 86 bpm instead of 60 bpm. In science the changes would be enormous. With a redefinition of the second every time related measurement would have to change including many in EE such as capacitance/charge/current, heck, the definition of the gravitational constant and even the speed of light would have to change. Every text book would change and every instrument. This would create so much confusion that we really would need new names for the second, minute and hour. This could go on all day (the one measurement that doesn't change) with a huge list of changes we will have to make and the many adaptations we as a society would need to accommodate. Then, in the end, we would still have leap years. Anyone old enough may remember when the USA tried to go metric. The people just would not go for it and it was abandoned. I don't remember that "people just would not go for it". I don't recall much resistance at all. I think the "resistance" was at other levels. We had little resistance here in Australia too, and plenty of people who would "not have gone with it". But it was mandated; all aspects of industry and commerce were evaluated and placed on a time-line. By a certain date, all green-grocers were required to display prices in both pounds and kilograms. Some time later, prices had to be charged by the kilogram. Some time after that, it became illegal to display prices in pounds. Etc... and so for every part of life, on a schedule that was planned ahead to assist people in learning the new system. It was not just recommended as "a good idea". My understanding is that "the land of the free"(*) failed because they did not make it mandatory. Yes, everything here is "free, for a small fee". -- Rick C Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms, on the centerline of totality since 1998 |
#43
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Decimal Time
rickman wrote:
Someone was talking about decimal time where the second is shortened by about 15% allowing 100 secs/minute, 100 minutes/hr, 10 hr/day. A large number of physical units are based on the second, especially in electrical engineering. Watts and Coulombs come to mind immediately, how about frequency and inductors/capacitors. it would screw up everything. In Physics, how about acceleration? In mechanics, how about RPM? Jon |
#44
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Decimal Time
Jon Elson wrote on 9/5/2017 3:27 PM:
rickman wrote: Someone was talking about decimal time where the second is shortened by about 15% allowing 100 secs/minute, 100 minutes/hr, 10 hr/day. A large number of physical units are based on the second, especially in electrical engineering. Watts and Coulombs come to mind immediately, how about frequency and inductors/capacitors. it would screw up everything. In Physics, how about acceleration? In mechanics, how about RPM? Yep, that's what happens when a unit is changed. Same with converting from English units to metric, many constants change. -- Rick C Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms, on the centerline of totality since 1998 |
#45
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Decimal Time
Once upon a time on usenet rickman wrote:
Someone was talking about decimal time where the second is shortened by about 15% allowing 100 secs/minute, 100 minutes/hr, 10 hr/day. I think the utility of this is limited and it would cause a lot of changes in society. We presently have a large number of convenient time increments which would not be so convenient in the new system. First, the hour would be 2.4 times longer leaving us with no convenient unit about the same length of time as the hour. The closest would be the quad-deci-hour which would be 0.96 old hours. The deci-hour would be pretty convenient about 4% shorter than a quarter hour. The old half hour would now be about a fifth of a new hour, so we could call it a "fifth" which might become confused with a non-metric liquor measure, a fifth of a gallon So that's where that term comes from! I've heard it in American movies / TV and read it in books but couldn't work out how a bottle that wasn't much more than a pint (~600ml) got the name 'a fifth'. I forgot about the Merkin gallon being less than a real gallon. In fact it's almost exactly 'a fifth' short! which has since become 750 ml in metric. Nah that is what the rest of the world called a 26oz bottle before metric. Of course in the US that would be closer to 25 fluid ounces. shakes head US water must be heavier. -- Shaun. "Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification in the DSM*." David Melville (in r.a.s.f1) (*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) |
#46
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Decimal Time
~misfit~ wrote on 9/7/2017 12:55 AM:
Once upon a time on usenet rickman wrote: Someone was talking about decimal time where the second is shortened by about 15% allowing 100 secs/minute, 100 minutes/hr, 10 hr/day. I think the utility of this is limited and it would cause a lot of changes in society. We presently have a large number of convenient time increments which would not be so convenient in the new system. First, the hour would be 2.4 times longer leaving us with no convenient unit about the same length of time as the hour. The closest would be the quad-deci-hour which would be 0.96 old hours. The deci-hour would be pretty convenient about 4% shorter than a quarter hour. The old half hour would now be about a fifth of a new hour, so we could call it a "fifth" which might become confused with a non-metric liquor measure, a fifth of a gallon So that's where that term comes from! I've heard it in American movies / TV and read it in books but couldn't work out how a bottle that wasn't much more than a pint (~600ml) got the name 'a fifth'. I forgot about the Merkin gallon being less than a real gallon. In fact it's almost exactly 'a fifth' short! which has since become 750 ml in metric. Nah that is what the rest of the world called a 26oz bottle before metric. Of course in the US that would be closer to 25 fluid ounces. shakes head US water must be heavier. A pint's a pound the world around! -- Rick C Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms, on the centerline of totality since 1998 |
#47
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Decimal Time
Once upon a time on usenet rickman wrote:
Tom Biasi wrote on 8/31/2017 10:16 PM: On 8/31/2017 10:00 PM, rickman wrote: Someone was talking about decimal time where the second is shortened by about 15% allowing 100 secs/minute, 100 minutes/hr, 10 hr/day. I think the utility of this is limited and it would cause a lot of changes in society. We presently have a large number of convenient time increments which would not be so convenient in the new system. First, the hour would be 2.4 times longer leaving us with no convenient unit about the same length of time as the hour. The closest would be the quad-deci-hour which would be 0.96 old hours. The deci-hour would be pretty convenient about 4% shorter than a quarter hour. The old half hour would now be about a fifth of a new hour, so we could call it a "fifth" which might become confused with a non-metric liquor measure, a fifth of a gallon which has since become 750 ml in metric. The inconvenience would come from the need to totally recalibrate every type of measurement we use that considers time... speed limits, work days, time zones... Would we extend this change to measurements of angles which often are done in degrees, minutes, seconds? How would we adjust the work day? Do we go to 3 hour work days which would be about 7.2 old hours? Shift work would have to split hours to get three shifts while some businesses that use two 12 old hour shifts would hum along just fine with 5 new hour shifts. Many businesses opening at 9 AM would now open at 4:00 (I assume we would just count 0 to 9 hours rather than the annoying AM/PM thing), folks would take a lunch break at 5:00 and banks would close around 6:00 while retail would remain open until 9:00 or 9:50 (hmmm, that is still about the same). The minutes gets pretty whacked gaining 26.4 old seconds. So "give me a minute" becomes a quarter more weighty of a request. The original pulse was conceived to match the human pulse so our normal pulse rate will become 86 bpm instead of 60 bpm. In science the changes would be enormous. With a redefinition of the second every time related measurement would have to change including many in EE such as capacitance/charge/current, heck, the definition of the gravitational constant and even the speed of light would have to change. Every text book would change and every instrument. This would create so much confusion that we really would need new names for the second, minute and hour. This could go on all day (the one measurement that doesn't change) with a huge list of changes we will have to make and the many adaptations we as a society would need to accommodate. Then, in the end, we would still have leap years. Anyone old enough may remember when the USA tried to go metric. The people just would not go for it and it was abandoned. I don't remember that "people just would not go for it". I don't recall much resistance at all. I think the "resistance" was at other levels. We had a partnership with Canada to change together and had a multi-step program. We completed the first two or three steps and quit. That's why metric is taught today in schools, it was part of step two or three. When we had to take a step that would actually change something (I think it was highway signs) we told Canada to go on without us and we'd catch up later... *much* later. I can't believe that even today we still use English units in many "English Units"? Like an American gallon? -- Shaun. "Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification in the DSM*." David Melville (in r.a.s.f1) (*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) engineering fields. Mechanical engineers often use inches and feet. God knows what civil engineers use, probably rods. It was just recently that I learned the acre comes from 160 square rods. Actually I just looked it up and the acre was defined as 1 chain by 1 furlong while a rod is a quarter of a chain. A chain is 0.1 furlong, so they are all a related system of measurement. |
#48
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Decimal Time
Once upon a time on usenet Tom Biasi wrote:
On 9/1/2017 3:57 AM, rickman wrote: Tom Biasi wrote on 8/31/2017 11:13 PM: Well you and I remember differently. I was involved in the teaching of the metric system to the people of the USA. There was great resistance and money for the project soon got thin. When I studied engineering in the 70's we used the metric system exclusively. We didn't call it SI, it was just the way the scientific community did it. What teaching were you involved in? I assume it was companies asking you to educate employees? That is not related to the government. It also has nothing to do with the "resistance" from the average person. No one was overly enthusiastic about it since it was a big change, but people were willing to go with the flow. Mostly they just didn't understand it as there had been only notification that it would happen and the education was only in the schools. I believe it was industry that resisted the change much to our detriment over the decades. I don't know what you mean about metric not being "SI". I didn't know diddly about metric until I was in college (before the conversion program started) and was taught the SI system. I believe prior to SI there was a metric system that had a few units that were different from today's SI by some powers of 10. CGS and dynes come to mind. I gave you my experience and you disagree. That's it. Here is a cut from a Wiki article of which seems to be my experience also. "The U.S. Metric Study recommended that the United States implement a carefully planned transition to the principal use of the metric system over a decade. Congress passed the Metric Conversion Act of 1975 "to coordinate and plan the increasing use of the metric system in the United States". Voluntary conversion was initiated, and the United States Metric Board (USMB) was established for planning, coordination, and public education. The public education component led to public awareness of the metric system, but the public response included resistance, apathy, and sometimes ridicule." "Voluntary conversion" is doomed to failure due to inertia so it's a failure of the legislators not the public. It should have been made compulsory as it was in most other countries which changed over. -- Shaun. "Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification in the DSM*." David Melville (in r.a.s.f1) (*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) |
#49
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Decimal Time
Once upon a time on usenet Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 31 Aug 2017 22:36:09 -0400, rickman wrote: I don't remember that "people just would not go for it". I don't recall much resistance at all. I think the "resistance" was at other levels. Yep. At the time (about 1975), I was working for a company that tried to switch to metric. This was aided by having the drafting manager and mechanical designer also serving on the metric conversion council (or whatever it was called). At one point, we started sending metric fabrication drawings to various vendors. They were immediately returned. The problem wasn't understanding the new metric way of doing things, it was that they would need to replace all their English lead screws, measurement instruments, gauges blocks, programming, etc before they could cut metal. They also claimed that they needed considerable staff training to handle the change (because someone tried to simultaneously switch to true position dimentioning). We would need to wait until the shops converted before we could orders parts in metric. So, we went back to English units and waited for the "inevitable" conversion that never happened. It seems that most of the other customers followed the same pattern. They tried metric, failed, and went back to English. Ok second guy in this thread to use the term "English units". Am I to assume it's an Americanism then? In England, Australia and New Zealand (the countries I've lived in) non-metric units are reffered to as "imperial". -- Shaun. "Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification in the DSM*." David Melville (in r.a.s.f1) (*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) So, we asked the various fab shops why the delay? They answered that since everyone seemed to be going back to using English measurements, they must have run into some problem with metric. Therefore, the fab shop saw no reason to convert. After getting approximately the same story from ALL our vendors, we gave up in disgust. "Why hasn't the U.S. adopted the metric system?" http://www.popsci.com/why-hasnt-us-adopted-metric-system The idea of decimal time has been around for centuries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal_time The big problem is that time, astronomical, and navigational units that are based on nautical miles, degrees, minutes, seconds, will end up with some rather odd looking numbers. Right now, 1 degree is equal to 60 nautical miles at the equator. It's too hot right now to think about what decimal time would do to all those. Of course, we could make things look better by switching from 360 degrees per circle, to 400 gradians per circle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gradian When in doubt, change everything. Everything that deals with time will need to be tweaked. That's going to be a problem since we have many ways to keep accurate time: http://leapsecond.com/java/gpsclock.htm Notice the difference in seconds. Some smartphone vendors are still having problems keeping accurate time: http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/GPS-vs-UTC.jpg More ways to keep time, all of which will need to be decimalized or maybe decimated: http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/systime.html This is what happened when most everyone assumed that NASA was totally metric, but wasn't: http://www.cnn.com/TECH/space/9909/30/mars.metric.02/ I suspect that a decimal time change will have similar transition problems. Why don't you just declare that the ratio of the circumference to the diameter of a circle is exactly 3.0 instead of 3.14159...? I think it would be easier than changing to decimal time. |
#50
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Decimal Time
Once upon a time on usenet rickman wrote:
Look165 wrote on 9/2/2017 3:42 AM: The sun comes back nearly every 24h ! Animals , like us, live based on circadian rythm. rickman a écrit : Look165 wrote on 9/1/2017 4:28 AM: It is worthless. The animal bodies are regulated by the 24h system. Not sure what you are talking about. Animal rhythms are related to a daily cycle, it has nothing to do with "hours". And it would be necessary to redefine the reference second which is now related to the cesiuaam atom.It is the international reference like the meter also related to this atom The second is defined as vibrations of the cesium atom in the same way the yard is defined in feet. If we wish to change the definition of the yard to four feet we do that and are done. Likewise we can change the definition of the second in the same way to a different number of vibrations of the cesium atom. Has anyone pointed out that top posting is hard to reply to? So what does that have to do with hours, minutes and seconds??? You do know there are 24 hours in a day, right? Changing the length of the hour won't change the length of the day. The top-posting should have given you the clue you needed there.... -- Shaun. "Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification in the DSM*." David Melville (in r.a.s.f1) (*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) |
#51
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Decimal Time
Once upon a time on usenet Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 1 Sep 2017 05:55:52 -0700 (PDT), Tim R wrote: During the time of the pyramids and pharaohs, the Egyptian calendar had 5 days "out of time" at the beginning of the year, then 12 months of 30 days each. That still makes more sense than what we do now. Then there is the Hebrew lunar calendar: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_calendar which adds an extra leap month in 7 out of every 19 years (3, 6, 8, 11, 14, 17, and 19): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_calendar#Leap_months Being able to handle such an ugly calenadar might explain why Jews are quite good at finance. Can you imagine what a loan amortization schedule looks like under such a calendar? No, jews are good at finance because the catholic church banned christians from usury - lending money and charging interest. As money became more and more important it became necessary for there to be financiers but christians weren't going to risk lending their money free of charge. So jews were invited into most catholic / christian countries to be the financiers as they had no such rule in *their* holy book. Without jews stepping in to finance large projects we'd still be in the dark ages. Yet how do we thank them? By making thinly-veiled anti-semetic jokes in electronics repair groups (and probably other places as well). -- Shaun. "Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification in the DSM*." David Melville (in r.a.s.f1) (*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) |
#52
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Decimal Time
On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 10:35:42 AM UTC-4, rickman wrote:
Look165 wrote on 9/1/2017 4:28 AM: It is worthless. The animal bodies are regulated by the 24h system. Not sure what you are talking about. Animal rhythms are related to a daily cycle, it has nothing to do with "hours". Further to this, Circadian Rhythm is very approximate, that is, it adjusts with the seasons, day/night length, temperature, in some cases the phases of the moon, and more. Try setting train schedules from a process that may alter by tens of minutes on any given day. Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA |
#53
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Decimal Time
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#54
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Decimal Time
On 07/09/17 21:26, ~misfit~ wrote:
Once upon a time on usenet Tom Biasi wrote: "The U.S. Metric Study recommended that the United States implement a carefully planned transition to the principal use of the metric system over a decade. Congress passed the Metric Conversion Act of 1975 "to coordinate and plan the increasing use of the metric system in the United States". Voluntary conversion was initiated, and the United States Metric Board (USMB) was established for planning, coordination, and public education. The public education component led to public awareness of the metric system, but the public response included resistance, apathy, and sometimes ridicule." "Voluntary conversion" is doomed to failure due to inertia so it's a failure of the legislators not the public. It should have been made compulsory as it was in most other countries which changed over. The legislators were true to the American ideal of liberty. This was a failure that ideal, not of the legislature. All ideals fail at the edges; that's why we call them ideals. |
#55
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Decimal Time
~misfit~ wrote on 9/7/2017 7:33 AM:
Once upon a time on usenet Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Thu, 31 Aug 2017 22:36:09 -0400, rickman wrote: I don't remember that "people just would not go for it". I don't recall much resistance at all. I think the "resistance" was at other levels. Yep. At the time (about 1975), I was working for a company that tried to switch to metric. This was aided by having the drafting manager and mechanical designer also serving on the metric conversion council (or whatever it was called). At one point, we started sending metric fabrication drawings to various vendors. They were immediately returned. The problem wasn't understanding the new metric way of doing things, it was that they would need to replace all their English lead screws, measurement instruments, gauges blocks, programming, etc before they could cut metal. They also claimed that they needed considerable staff training to handle the change (because someone tried to simultaneously switch to true position dimentioning). We would need to wait until the shops converted before we could orders parts in metric. So, we went back to English units and waited for the "inevitable" conversion that never happened. It seems that most of the other customers followed the same pattern. They tried metric, failed, and went back to English. Ok second guy in this thread to use the term "English units". Am I to assume it's an Americanism then? In England, Australia and New Zealand (the countries I've lived in) non-metric units are reffered to as "imperial". Imperial units are not quite the same. An imperial gallon is larger than the gallon used in the US. I don't know if there are other differences, I'm pretty sure the inch, foot and yard are the same. I'm not sure if a fortnight is the same on both sides of the Atlantic... We use the term "English units" because like many of our customs, laws and general ways of life, they came to us by way of England. -- Rick C Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms, on the centerline of totality since 1998 |
#56
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Decimal Time
~misfit~ wrote on 9/7/2017 7:26 AM:
Once upon a time on usenet Tom Biasi wrote: Here is a cut from a Wiki article of which seems to be my experience also. "The U.S. Metric Study recommended that the United States implement a carefully planned transition to the principal use of the metric system over a decade. Congress passed the Metric Conversion Act of 1975 "to coordinate and plan the increasing use of the metric system in the United States". Voluntary conversion was initiated, and the United States Metric Board (USMB) was established for planning, coordination, and public education. The public education component led to public awareness of the metric system, but the public response included resistance, apathy, and sometimes ridicule." "Voluntary conversion" is doomed to failure due to inertia so it's a failure of the legislators not the public. It should have been made compulsory as it was in most other countries which changed over. This country can be pretty idiotic about "compulsory" issues. The federal government has a regulation that children must wear life vests in federally controlled waters. The State of Virginia has a similar law, but it only applies to the waterways that are regulated by the Coast Guard (federal laws). So the law is no additional regulation, it simply allows the state authorities to enforce it. Meanwhile it is perfectly legal in the state controlled waters to not put a life vest on your children. Allegedly this is because the legislators get tremendous push back when they pass laws that add new regulations. How fooking stupid is that?! *Everyone* should have to wear a life vest any time they are in a boat underway. Just this past July 4th weekend someone died when he fell overboard while not wearing a life vest. They do nothing for you if you don't wear them. Cutting a tree down with your six year old next to you would be considered child endangerment even though there is no specific law against it. By the same reasoning allowing children to ride in a boat without a life vest should be child endangerment regardless of the law. But we legislate according to the push back from fears of "over regulation". -- Rick C Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms, on the centerline of totality since 1998 |
#57
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Decimal Time
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#58
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Decimal Time
Once upon a time on usenet rickman wrote:
~misfit~ wrote on 9/7/2017 7:33 AM: Once upon a time on usenet Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Thu, 31 Aug 2017 22:36:09 -0400, rickman wrote: I don't remember that "people just would not go for it". I don't recall much resistance at all. I think the "resistance" was at other levels. Yep. At the time (about 1975), I was working for a company that tried to switch to metric. This was aided by having the drafting manager and mechanical designer also serving on the metric conversion council (or whatever it was called). At one point, we started sending metric fabrication drawings to various vendors. They were immediately returned. The problem wasn't understanding the new metric way of doing things, it was that they would need to replace all their English lead screws, measurement instruments, gauges blocks, programming, etc before they could cut metal. They also claimed that they needed considerable staff training to handle the change (because someone tried to simultaneously switch to true position dimentioning). We would need to wait until the shops converted before we could orders parts in metric. So, we went back to English units and waited for the "inevitable" conversion that never happened. It seems that most of the other customers followed the same pattern. They tried metric, failed, and went back to English. Ok second guy in this thread to use the term "English units". Am I to assume it's an Americanism then? In England, Australia and New Zealand (the countries I've lived in) non-metric units are reffered to as "imperial". Imperial units are not quite the same. An imperial gallon is larger than the gallon used in the US. In the rest of the world is 4.54 litres. Only in the US is 'gallon' different (approximately 3.75 litres?). I don't know if there are other differences, I'm pretty sure the inch, foot and yard are the same. I'm not sure if a fortnight is the same on both sides of the Atlantic... We use the term "English units" because like many of our customs, laws and general ways of life, they came to us by way of England. Likewise in Australia and New Zealand we owe a lot of our heritage to England - however we don't call the units "English". It just seemed odd to me shrug -- Shaun. "Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification in the DSM*." David Melville (in r.a.s.f1) (*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) |
#59
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Decimal Time
Once upon a time on usenet rickman wrote:
~misfit~ wrote on 9/7/2017 7:26 AM: Once upon a time on usenet Tom Biasi wrote: Here is a cut from a Wiki article of which seems to be my experience also. "The U.S. Metric Study recommended that the United States implement a carefully planned transition to the principal use of the metric system over a decade. Congress passed the Metric Conversion Act of 1975 "to coordinate and plan the increasing use of the metric system in the United States". Voluntary conversion was initiated, and the United States Metric Board (USMB) was established for planning, coordination, and public education. The public education component led to public awareness of the metric system, but the public response included resistance, apathy, and sometimes ridicule." "Voluntary conversion" is doomed to failure due to inertia so it's a failure of the legislators not the public. It should have been made compulsory as it was in most other countries which changed over. This country can be pretty idiotic about "compulsory" issues. The federal government has a regulation that children must wear life vests in federally controlled waters. The State of Virginia has a similar law, but it only applies to the waterways that are regulated by the Coast Guard (federal laws). So the law is no additional regulation, it simply allows the state authorities to enforce it. Meanwhile it is perfectly legal in the state controlled waters to not put a life vest on your children. Allegedly this is because the legislators get tremendous push back when they pass laws that add new regulations. How fooking stupid is that?! *Everyone* should have to wear a life vest any time they are in a boat underway. Just this past July 4th weekend someone died when he fell overboard while not wearing a life vest. They do nothing for you if you don't wear them. Cutting a tree down with your six year old next to you would be considered child endangerment even though there is no specific law against it. By the same reasoning allowing children to ride in a boat without a life vest should be child endangerment regardless of the law. But we legislate according to the push back from fears of "over regulation". Very fooking stupid. Are seat belts compulsory yet? It seems an odd mix. -- Shaun. "Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification in the DSM*." David Melville (in r.a.s.f1) (*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) |
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Decimal Time
~misfit~ wrote on 9/9/2017 2:52 AM:
Once upon a time on usenet rickman wrote: ~misfit~ wrote on 9/7/2017 7:26 AM: Once upon a time on usenet Tom Biasi wrote: Here is a cut from a Wiki article of which seems to be my experience also. "The U.S. Metric Study recommended that the United States implement a carefully planned transition to the principal use of the metric system over a decade. Congress passed the Metric Conversion Act of 1975 "to coordinate and plan the increasing use of the metric system in the United States". Voluntary conversion was initiated, and the United States Metric Board (USMB) was established for planning, coordination, and public education. The public education component led to public awareness of the metric system, but the public response included resistance, apathy, and sometimes ridicule." "Voluntary conversion" is doomed to failure due to inertia so it's a failure of the legislators not the public. It should have been made compulsory as it was in most other countries which changed over. This country can be pretty idiotic about "compulsory" issues. The federal government has a regulation that children must wear life vests in federally controlled waters. The State of Virginia has a similar law, but it only applies to the waterways that are regulated by the Coast Guard (federal laws). So the law is no additional regulation, it simply allows the state authorities to enforce it. Meanwhile it is perfectly legal in the state controlled waters to not put a life vest on your children. Allegedly this is because the legislators get tremendous push back when they pass laws that add new regulations. How fooking stupid is that?! *Everyone* should have to wear a life vest any time they are in a boat underway. Just this past July 4th weekend someone died when he fell overboard while not wearing a life vest. They do nothing for you if you don't wear them. Cutting a tree down with your six year old next to you would be considered child endangerment even though there is no specific law against it. By the same reasoning allowing children to ride in a boat without a life vest should be child endangerment regardless of the law. But we legislate according to the push back from fears of "over regulation". Very fooking stupid. Are seat belts compulsory yet? It seems an odd mix. Of course seat belts are compulsory. Where do you live that they aren't? -- Rick C Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms, on the centerline of totality since 1998 |
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~misfit~ wrote on 9/9/2017 2:51 AM:
Once upon a time on usenet rickman wrote: ~misfit~ wrote on 9/7/2017 7:33 AM: Once upon a time on usenet Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Thu, 31 Aug 2017 22:36:09 -0400, rickman wrote: I don't remember that "people just would not go for it". I don't recall much resistance at all. I think the "resistance" was at other levels. Yep. At the time (about 1975), I was working for a company that tried to switch to metric. This was aided by having the drafting manager and mechanical designer also serving on the metric conversion council (or whatever it was called). At one point, we started sending metric fabrication drawings to various vendors. They were immediately returned. The problem wasn't understanding the new metric way of doing things, it was that they would need to replace all their English lead screws, measurement instruments, gauges blocks, programming, etc before they could cut metal. They also claimed that they needed considerable staff training to handle the change (because someone tried to simultaneously switch to true position dimentioning). We would need to wait until the shops converted before we could orders parts in metric. So, we went back to English units and waited for the "inevitable" conversion that never happened. It seems that most of the other customers followed the same pattern. They tried metric, failed, and went back to English. Ok second guy in this thread to use the term "English units". Am I to assume it's an Americanism then? In England, Australia and New Zealand (the countries I've lived in) non-metric units are reffered to as "imperial". Imperial units are not quite the same. An imperial gallon is larger than the gallon used in the US. In the rest of the world is 4.54 litres. Only in the US is 'gallon' different (approximately 3.75 litres?). I don't know if there are other differences, I'm pretty sure the inch, foot and yard are the same. I'm not sure if a fortnight is the same on both sides of the Atlantic... We use the term "English units" because like many of our customs, laws and general ways of life, they came to us by way of England. Likewise in Australia and New Zealand we owe a lot of our heritage to England - however we don't call the units "English". It just seemed odd to me shrug Really? If that is the oddest thing you find about the US then I am very happy. I've explained how some of our units are *not* Imperial. What would you have us call them? -- Rick C Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms, on the centerline of totality since 1998 |
#62
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On 9-9-2017 21:23, rickman wrote:
~misfit~ wrote on 9/9/2017 2:51 AM: Once upon a time on usenet rickman wrote: ~misfit~ wrote on 9/7/2017 7:33 AM: Once upon a time on usenet Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Thu, 31 Aug 2017 22:36:09 -0400, rickman wrote: I don't remember that "people just would not go for it". I don't recall much resistance at all. I think the "resistance" was at other levels. Yep. At the time (about 1975), I was working for a company that tried to switch to metric. This was aided by having the drafting manager and mechanical designer also serving on the metric conversion council (or whatever it was called). At one point, we started sending metric fabrication drawings to various vendors. They were immediately returned. The problem wasn't understanding the new metric way of doing things, it was that they would need to replace all their English lead screws, measurement instruments, gauges blocks, programming, etc before they could cut metal. They also claimed that they needed considerable staff training to handle the change (because someone tried to simultaneously switch to true position dimentioning). We would need to wait until the shops converted before we could orders parts in metric. So, we went back to English units and waited for the "inevitable" conversion that never happened. It seems that most of the other customers followed the same pattern. They tried metric, failed, and went back to English. Ok second guy in this thread to use the term "English units". Am I to assume it's an Americanism then? In England, Australia and New Zealand (the countries I've lived in) non-metric units are reffered to as "imperial". Imperial units are not quite the same. An imperial gallon is larger than the gallon used in the US. In the rest of the world is 4.54 litres. Only in the US is 'gallon' different (approximately 3.75 litres?). I don't know if there are other differences, I'm pretty sure the inch, foot and yard are the same. I'm not sure if a fortnight is the same on both sides of the Atlantic... We use the term "English units" because like many of our customs, laws and general ways of life, they came to us by way of England. Likewise in Australia and New Zealand we owe a lot of our heritage to England - however we don't call the units "English". It just seemed odd to me shrug Really? If that is the oddest thing you find about the US then I am very happy. I've explained how some of our units are *not* Imperial. What would you have us call them? Silly? |
#63
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Sjouke Burry wrote on 9/9/2017 4:09 PM:
On 9-9-2017 21:23, rickman wrote: ~misfit~ wrote on 9/9/2017 2:51 AM: Once upon a time on usenet rickman wrote: ~misfit~ wrote on 9/7/2017 7:33 AM: Once upon a time on usenet Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Thu, 31 Aug 2017 22:36:09 -0400, rickman wrote: I don't remember that "people just would not go for it". I don't recall much resistance at all. I think the "resistance" was at other levels. Yep. At the time (about 1975), I was working for a company that tried to switch to metric. This was aided by having the drafting manager and mechanical designer also serving on the metric conversion council (or whatever it was called). At one point, we started sending metric fabrication drawings to various vendors. They were immediately returned. The problem wasn't understanding the new metric way of doing things, it was that they would need to replace all their English lead screws, measurement instruments, gauges blocks, programming, etc before they could cut metal. They also claimed that they needed considerable staff training to handle the change (because someone tried to simultaneously switch to true position dimentioning). We would need to wait until the shops converted before we could orders parts in metric. So, we went back to English units and waited for the "inevitable" conversion that never happened. It seems that most of the other customers followed the same pattern. They tried metric, failed, and went back to English. Ok second guy in this thread to use the term "English units". Am I to assume it's an Americanism then? In England, Australia and New Zealand (the countries I've lived in) non-metric units are reffered to as "imperial". Imperial units are not quite the same. An imperial gallon is larger than the gallon used in the US. In the rest of the world is 4.54 litres. Only in the US is 'gallon' different (approximately 3.75 litres?). I don't know if there are other differences, I'm pretty sure the inch, foot and yard are the same. I'm not sure if a fortnight is the same on both sides of the Atlantic... We use the term "English units" because like many of our customs, laws and general ways of life, they came to us by way of England. Likewise in Australia and New Zealand we owe a lot of our heritage to England - however we don't call the units "English". It just seemed odd to me shrug Really? If that is the oddest thing you find about the US then I am very happy. I've explained how some of our units are *not* Imperial. What would you have us call them? Silly? Ok, the US uses Silly units which we mostly inherited from the English. -- Rick C Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms, on the centerline of totality since 1998 |
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rickman wrote on 9/9/2017 6:05 PM:
Sjouke Burry wrote on 9/9/2017 4:09 PM: On 9-9-2017 21:23, rickman wrote: ~misfit~ wrote on 9/9/2017 2:51 AM: Once upon a time on usenet rickman wrote: ~misfit~ wrote on 9/7/2017 7:33 AM: Once upon a time on usenet Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Thu, 31 Aug 2017 22:36:09 -0400, rickman wrote: I don't remember that "people just would not go for it". I don't recall much resistance at all. I think the "resistance" was at other levels. Yep. At the time (about 1975), I was working for a company that tried to switch to metric. This was aided by having the drafting manager and mechanical designer also serving on the metric conversion council (or whatever it was called). At one point, we started sending metric fabrication drawings to various vendors. They were immediately returned. The problem wasn't understanding the new metric way of doing things, it was that they would need to replace all their English lead screws, measurement instruments, gauges blocks, programming, etc before they could cut metal. They also claimed that they needed considerable staff training to handle the change (because someone tried to simultaneously switch to true position dimentioning). We would need to wait until the shops converted before we could orders parts in metric. So, we went back to English units and waited for the "inevitable" conversion that never happened. It seems that most of the other customers followed the same pattern. They tried metric, failed, and went back to English. Ok second guy in this thread to use the term "English units". Am I to assume it's an Americanism then? In England, Australia and New Zealand (the countries I've lived in) non-metric units are reffered to as "imperial". Imperial units are not quite the same. An imperial gallon is larger than the gallon used in the US. In the rest of the world is 4.54 litres. Only in the US is 'gallon' different (approximately 3.75 litres?). I don't know if there are other differences, I'm pretty sure the inch, foot and yard are the same. I'm not sure if a fortnight is the same on both sides of the Atlantic... We use the term "English units" because like many of our customs, laws and general ways of life, they came to us by way of England. Likewise in Australia and New Zealand we owe a lot of our heritage to England - however we don't call the units "English". It just seemed odd to me shrug Really? If that is the oddest thing you find about the US then I am very happy. I've explained how some of our units are *not* Imperial. What would you have us call them? Silly? Ok, the US uses Silly units which we mostly inherited from the English. Actually there are times when the US gallon is the same as an English gallon. http://www.metric-conversions.org/vo...uk-gallons.htm The US gallon is the result of the British taxes on the US. They overly taxed us without allowing us any representation in the government so we rebelled. At that time the gallon was defined by the weight of what was being measured. There was a corn gallon, a wheat gallon, a beer gallon ect. In 1820 England decided to abandon the many gallon approach and go with a single gallon defined by the volume of 10 pounds of water at 62 °F in air. Good thing we didn't adopt the Imperial gallon, it keeps changing. It was changed as late as 1985. What good is a standard that changes? -- Rick C Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms, on the centerline of totality since 1998 |
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Once upon a time on usenet rickman wrote:
~misfit~ wrote on 9/9/2017 2:52 AM: Once upon a time on usenet rickman wrote: ~misfit~ wrote on 9/7/2017 7:26 AM: Once upon a time on usenet Tom Biasi wrote: Here is a cut from a Wiki article of which seems to be my experience also. "The U.S. Metric Study recommended that the United States implement a carefully planned transition to the principal use of the metric system over a decade. Congress passed the Metric Conversion Act of 1975 "to coordinate and plan the increasing use of the metric system in the United States". Voluntary conversion was initiated, and the United States Metric Board (USMB) was established for planning, coordination, and public education. The public education component led to public awareness of the metric system, but the public response included resistance, apathy, and sometimes ridicule." "Voluntary conversion" is doomed to failure due to inertia so it's a failure of the legislators not the public. It should have been made compulsory as it was in most other countries which changed over. This country can be pretty idiotic about "compulsory" issues. The federal government has a regulation that children must wear life vests in federally controlled waters. The State of Virginia has a similar law, but it only applies to the waterways that are regulated by the Coast Guard (federal laws). So the law is no additional regulation, it simply allows the state authorities to enforce it. Meanwhile it is perfectly legal in the state controlled waters to not put a life vest on your children. Allegedly this is because the legislators get tremendous push back when they pass laws that add new regulations. How fooking stupid is that?! *Everyone* should have to wear a life vest any time they are in a boat underway. Just this past July 4th weekend someone died when he fell overboard while not wearing a life vest. They do nothing for you if you don't wear them. Cutting a tree down with your six year old next to you would be considered child endangerment even though there is no specific law against it. By the same reasoning allowing children to ride in a boat without a life vest should be child endangerment regardless of the law. But we legislate according to the push back from fears of "over regulation". Very fooking stupid. Are seat belts compulsory yet? It seems an odd mix. Of course seat belts are compulsory. Where do you live that they aren't? I didn't say they aren't here, I remember that not long ago they weren't in the US. Are they compulsory in the back seats too? -- Shaun. "Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification in the DSM*." David Melville (in r.a.s.f1) (*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) |
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~misfit~ wrote on 9/13/2017 9:26 AM:
Once upon a time on usenet rickman wrote: ~misfit~ wrote on 9/9/2017 2:52 AM: Once upon a time on usenet rickman wrote: ~misfit~ wrote on 9/7/2017 7:26 AM: Once upon a time on usenet Tom Biasi wrote: Here is a cut from a Wiki article of which seems to be my experience also. "The U.S. Metric Study recommended that the United States implement a carefully planned transition to the principal use of the metric system over a decade. Congress passed the Metric Conversion Act of 1975 "to coordinate and plan the increasing use of the metric system in the United States". Voluntary conversion was initiated, and the United States Metric Board (USMB) was established for planning, coordination, and public education. The public education component led to public awareness of the metric system, but the public response included resistance, apathy, and sometimes ridicule." "Voluntary conversion" is doomed to failure due to inertia so it's a failure of the legislators not the public. It should have been made compulsory as it was in most other countries which changed over. This country can be pretty idiotic about "compulsory" issues. The federal government has a regulation that children must wear life vests in federally controlled waters. The State of Virginia has a similar law, but it only applies to the waterways that are regulated by the Coast Guard (federal laws). So the law is no additional regulation, it simply allows the state authorities to enforce it. Meanwhile it is perfectly legal in the state controlled waters to not put a life vest on your children. Allegedly this is because the legislators get tremendous push back when they pass laws that add new regulations. How fooking stupid is that?! *Everyone* should have to wear a life vest any time they are in a boat underway. Just this past July 4th weekend someone died when he fell overboard while not wearing a life vest. They do nothing for you if you don't wear them. Cutting a tree down with your six year old next to you would be considered child endangerment even though there is no specific law against it. By the same reasoning allowing children to ride in a boat without a life vest should be child endangerment regardless of the law. But we legislate according to the push back from fears of "over regulation". Very fooking stupid. Are seat belts compulsory yet? It seems an odd mix. Of course seat belts are compulsory. Where do you live that they aren't? I didn't say they aren't here, I remember that not long ago they weren't in the US. Are they compulsory in the back seats too? http://bfy.tw/DuT3 -- Rick C Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms, on the centerline of totality since 1998 |
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Once upon a time on usenet rickman wrote:
~misfit~ wrote on 9/13/2017 9:26 AM: Once upon a time on usenet rickman wrote: ~misfit~ wrote on 9/9/2017 2:52 AM: Once upon a time on usenet rickman wrote: ~misfit~ wrote on 9/7/2017 7:26 AM: Once upon a time on usenet Tom Biasi wrote: Here is a cut from a Wiki article of which seems to be my experience also. "The U.S. Metric Study recommended that the United States implement a carefully planned transition to the principal use of the metric system over a decade. Congress passed the Metric Conversion Act of 1975 "to coordinate and plan the increasing use of the metric system in the United States". Voluntary conversion was initiated, and the United States Metric Board (USMB) was established for planning, coordination, and public education. The public education component led to public awareness of the metric system, but the public response included resistance, apathy, and sometimes ridicule." "Voluntary conversion" is doomed to failure due to inertia so it's a failure of the legislators not the public. It should have been made compulsory as it was in most other countries which changed over. This country can be pretty idiotic about "compulsory" issues. The federal government has a regulation that children must wear life vests in federally controlled waters. The State of Virginia has a similar law, but it only applies to the waterways that are regulated by the Coast Guard (federal laws). So the law is no additional regulation, it simply allows the state authorities to enforce it. Meanwhile it is perfectly legal in the state controlled waters to not put a life vest on your children. Allegedly this is because the legislators get tremendous push back when they pass laws that add new regulations. How fooking stupid is that?! *Everyone* should have to wear a life vest any time they are in a boat underway. Just this past July 4th weekend someone died when he fell overboard while not wearing a life vest. They do nothing for you if you don't wear them. Cutting a tree down with your six year old next to you would be considered child endangerment even though there is no specific law against it. By the same reasoning allowing children to ride in a boat without a life vest should be child endangerment regardless of the law. But we legislate according to the push back from fears of "over regulation". Very fooking stupid. Are seat belts compulsory yet? It seems an odd mix. Of course seat belts are compulsory. Where do you live that they aren't? I didn't say they aren't here, I remember that not long ago they weren't in the US. Are they compulsory in the back seats too? http://bfy.tw/DuT3 So that's a no then. How backwards. They've been compulsory here for quite a while with no silly age restriction complications (as well as children needing to be in approved 'car seat' survival cells to a certain age). (BTW if you were smart you'd be a smart arse. You should have included 'rear seats' in the search parameters. I'll go back to my policy of not clicking obfuscated URLs - which for some odd reason I didn't think would be needed here.) -- Shaun. "Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification in the DSM*." David Melville (in r.a.s.f1) (*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) |
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~misfit~ wrote on 9/16/2017 8:49 PM:
Once upon a time on usenet rickman wrote: ~misfit~ wrote on 9/13/2017 9:26 AM: Once upon a time on usenet rickman wrote: ~misfit~ wrote on 9/9/2017 2:52 AM: Once upon a time on usenet rickman wrote: ~misfit~ wrote on 9/7/2017 7:26 AM: Once upon a time on usenet Tom Biasi wrote: Here is a cut from a Wiki article of which seems to be my experience also. "The U.S. Metric Study recommended that the United States implement a carefully planned transition to the principal use of the metric system over a decade. Congress passed the Metric Conversion Act of 1975 "to coordinate and plan the increasing use of the metric system in the United States". Voluntary conversion was initiated, and the United States Metric Board (USMB) was established for planning, coordination, and public education. The public education component led to public awareness of the metric system, but the public response included resistance, apathy, and sometimes ridicule." "Voluntary conversion" is doomed to failure due to inertia so it's a failure of the legislators not the public. It should have been made compulsory as it was in most other countries which changed over. This country can be pretty idiotic about "compulsory" issues. The federal government has a regulation that children must wear life vests in federally controlled waters. The State of Virginia has a similar law, but it only applies to the waterways that are regulated by the Coast Guard (federal laws). So the law is no additional regulation, it simply allows the state authorities to enforce it. Meanwhile it is perfectly legal in the state controlled waters to not put a life vest on your children. Allegedly this is because the legislators get tremendous push back when they pass laws that add new regulations. How fooking stupid is that?! *Everyone* should have to wear a life vest any time they are in a boat underway. Just this past July 4th weekend someone died when he fell overboard while not wearing a life vest. They do nothing for you if you don't wear them. Cutting a tree down with your six year old next to you would be considered child endangerment even though there is no specific law against it. By the same reasoning allowing children to ride in a boat without a life vest should be child endangerment regardless of the law. But we legislate according to the push back from fears of "over regulation". Very fooking stupid. Are seat belts compulsory yet? It seems an odd mix. Of course seat belts are compulsory. Where do you live that they aren't? I didn't say they aren't here, I remember that not long ago they weren't in the US. Are they compulsory in the back seats too? http://bfy.tw/DuT3 So that's a no then. How backwards. They've been compulsory here for quite a while with no silly age restriction complications (as well as children needing to be in approved 'car seat' survival cells to a certain age). (BTW if you were smart you'd be a smart arse. You should have included 'rear seats' in the search parameters. I'll go back to my policy of not clicking obfuscated URLs - which for some odd reason I didn't think would be needed here.) Not sure what you are reading. Traffic laws are state issues in the US although there is a certain amount of "coordination" by the Federal government. I don't know of any states which doesn't require seat belts to be worn by everyone in a vehicle. I'm not familiar with *all* of the 50 states. What did you find that says otherwise? -- Rick C Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms, on the centerline of totality since 1998 |
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~misfit~ wrote:
Once upon a time on usenet Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Fri, 1 Sep 2017 05:55:52 -0700 (PDT), Tim R wrote: During the time of the pyramids and pharaohs, the Egyptian calendar had 5 days "out of time" at the beginning of the year, then 12 months of 30 days each. That still makes more sense than what we do now. Then there is the Hebrew lunar calendar: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_calendar which adds an extra leap month in 7 out of every 19 years (3, 6, 8, 11, 14, 17, and 19): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_calendar#Leap_months Being able to handle such an ugly calenadar might explain why Jews are quite good at finance. Can you imagine what a loan amortization schedule looks like under such a calendar? No, jews are good at finance because the catholic church banned christians from usury - lending money and charging interest. As money became more and more important it became necessary for there to be financiers but christians weren't going to risk lending their money free of charge. So jews were invited into most catholic / christian countries to be the financiers as they had no such rule in *their* holy book. Without jews stepping in to finance large projects we'd still be in the dark ages. Yet how do we thank them? By making thinly-veiled anti-semetic jokes in electronics repair groups (and probably other places as well). Bigoted trolls will always be around. Just avoid them. Just ignore them. |
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On Friday, September 8, 2017 at 3:19:11 PM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
What I would really like is for the insurance companies to get togetner with the law makers and not pay off to the people over 21 that do not follow those laws. I do not care if some one of reasonable age falls off the boat without the life vest and drowns. Just don't expect his life insurance to pay off. Or is someone gets hurt in a car crash without the seat belt, just do not pay off for medical bills or to get his car repaired. Some pretty serious issues here if this is to be enforced. a) Automakers must be then, 100% liable *forever* for the functionality of the seat belts and safety devices. So, latches that fail, belts that wear and break, and airbags that do not go off - none of which are user-serviceable - must fall back on the manufacturer. b) Seat belt and safety device deployment must then be recorded in the automotive 'brain' such that this will indicate at the crash-investigation stage. Similar to an aircraft flight data recorder. Many of these even now record speed and other conditions if there is a crash, some will even notify emergency services. Which, of course, will naturally lead to insurance companies demanding 'good driver' monitors on their insured that continuously relay speed/braking/timing/and much more to the company so that they may determine 'risk' based on actual driving behavior. Some offer this option right now. Is that what you really want? Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA |
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On 09/08/2017 02:42 PM, rickman wrote:
I don't remember that "people just would not go for it".Â* I don't recall much resistance at all.Â* I think the "resistance" was at other levels. Yep.Â* At the time (about 1975), I was working for a company that tried to switch to metric.Â* This was aided by having the drafting manager and mechanical designer also serving on the metric conversion council (or whatever it was called).Â* At one point, we started sending metric fabrication drawings to various vendors.Â* They were immediately returned.Â* The problem wasn't understanding the new metric way of doing things, it was that they would need to replace all their English lead screws, measurement instruments, gauges blocks, programming, etc before they could cut metal.Â* They also claimed that they needed considerable staff training to handle the change (because someone tried to simultaneously switch to true position dimentioning).Â* We would need to wait until the shops converted before we could orders parts in metric. So, we went back to English units and waited for the "inevitable" conversion that never happened.Â* It seems that most of the other customers followed the same pattern.Â* They tried metric, failed, and went back to English. Ok second guy in this thread to use the term "English units". Am I to assume it's an Americanism then? In England, Australia and New Zealand (the countries I've lived in) non-metric units are reffered to as "imperial". Imperial units are not quite the same.Â* An imperial gallon is larger than the gallon used in the US.Â* I don't know if there are other differences, I'm pretty sure the inch, foot and yard are the same.Â* I'm not sure if a fortnight is the same on both sides of the Atlantic... A US gallon is smaller than an Imperial gallon because the US pint has the wrong number of fluid ounces (16 instead of 20). We use the term "English units" because like many of our customs, laws and general ways of life, they came to us by way of England. When it comes to tools such as wrenches, I see the term "Standard" often used in the USA -- maybe just short for the whole "SAE" term, the last two of whose letters I don't recall the meaning. Perce |
#72
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Decimal Time
On Tuesday, September 19, 2017 at 1:50:18 PM UTC-4, Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
When it comes to tools such as wrenches, I see the term "Standard" often used in the USA -- maybe just short for the whole "SAE" term, the last two of whose letters I don't recall the meaning. S ociety of A utomotive E ngineers N ational S cience F oundation N ational P ipe T aper A merican S ociety for T esting M aterial N ational F ire P rotection As sociation N ational E lectrical C ode N ational S tandard P lumbing C ode A merican S ociety of H eating, R efrigerating and A ir-Conditioning E ngineers There are many. Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA |
#73
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Decimal Time
Forgot: A merican W ire G auge
Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA |
#74
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Decimal Time
On 09/07/2017 01:16 AM, rickman wrote:
Once upon a time on usenet rickman wrote: Someone was talking about decimal time where the second is shortened by about 15% allowing 100 secs/minute, 100 minutes/hr, 10 hr/day. I think the utility of this is limited and it would cause a lot of changes in society.Â* We presently have a large number of convenient time increments which would not be so convenient in the new system. First, the hour would be 2.4 times longer leaving us with no convenient unit about the same length of time as the hour.Â* The closest would be the quad-deci-hour which would be 0.96 old hours. The deci-hour would be pretty convenient about 4% shorter than a quarter hour.Â* The old half hour would now be about a fifth of a new hour, so we could call it a "fifth" which might become confused with a non-metric liquor measure, a fifth of a gallon So that's where that term comes from! I've heard it in American movies / TV and read it in books but couldn't work out how a bottle that wasn't much more than a pint (~600ml) got the name 'a fifth'. I forgot about the Merkin gallon being less than a real gallon. In fact it's almost exactly 'a fifth' short! which has since become 750 ml in metric. Nah that is what the rest of the world called a 26oz bottle before metric. Of course in the US that would be closer to 25 fluid ounces. shakes head US water must be heavier. A pint's a pound the world around! No, it isn't. Even if we stick to the undersized US pints of 16 fl.oz. instead of 20 fl. oz., the weight of something with a volume of one pint varies considerably depending on what the substance is. Even if we're talking about cooking and trying to convert recipes with quantities by weight to cup measurements, a cup of sugar and a cup of flour probably will not weigh the same, and the weight of the flour will depend on how densely it's packed -- could be as little as 5 oz. rather than the 8 oz. that the "pint's a pound the world around" formula indicates. Perce |
#75
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Decimal Time
Percival P. Cassidy wrote on 9/19/2017 2:05 PM:
On 09/07/2017 01:16 AM, rickman wrote: Once upon a time on usenet rickman wrote: Someone was talking about decimal time where the second is shortened by about 15% allowing 100 secs/minute, 100 minutes/hr, 10 hr/day. I think the utility of this is limited and it would cause a lot of changes in society. We presently have a large number of convenient time increments which would not be so convenient in the new system. First, the hour would be 2.4 times longer leaving us with no convenient unit about the same length of time as the hour. The closest would be the quad-deci-hour which would be 0.96 old hours. The deci-hour would be pretty convenient about 4% shorter than a quarter hour. The old half hour would now be about a fifth of a new hour, so we could call it a "fifth" which might become confused with a non-metric liquor measure, a fifth of a gallon So that's where that term comes from! I've heard it in American movies / TV and read it in books but couldn't work out how a bottle that wasn't much more than a pint (~600ml) got the name 'a fifth'. I forgot about the Merkin gallon being less than a real gallon. In fact it's almost exactly 'a fifth' short! which has since become 750 ml in metric. Nah that is what the rest of the world called a 26oz bottle before metric. Of course in the US that would be closer to 25 fluid ounces. shakes head US water must be heavier. A pint's a pound the world around! No, it isn't. Even if we stick to the undersized US pints of 16 fl.oz. instead of 20 fl. oz., the weight of something with a volume of one pint varies considerably depending on what the substance is. Even if we're talking about cooking and trying to convert recipes with quantities by weight to cup measurements, a cup of sugar and a cup of flour probably will not weigh the same, and the weight of the flour will depend on how densely it's packed -- could be as little as 5 oz. rather than the 8 oz. that the "pint's a pound the world around" formula indicates. You have eyes, but can not see. -- Rick C Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms, on the centerline of totality since 1998 |
#76
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Decimal Time
Once upon a time on usenet Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
On 09/07/2017 01:16 AM, rickman wrote: Once upon a time on usenet rickman wrote: Someone was talking about decimal time where the second is shortened by about 15% allowing 100 secs/minute, 100 minutes/hr, 10 hr/day. I think the utility of this is limited and it would cause a lot of changes in society. We presently have a large number of convenient time increments which would not be so convenient in the new system. First, the hour would be 2.4 times longer leaving us with no convenient unit about the same length of time as the hour. The closest would be the quad-deci-hour which would be 0.96 old hours. The deci-hour would be pretty convenient about 4% shorter than a quarter hour. The old half hour would now be about a fifth of a new hour, so we could call it a "fifth" which might become confused with a non-metric liquor measure, a fifth of a gallon So that's where that term comes from! I've heard it in American movies / TV and read it in books but couldn't work out how a bottle that wasn't much more than a pint (~600ml) got the name 'a fifth'. I forgot about the Merkin gallon being less than a real gallon. In fact it's almost exactly 'a fifth' short! which has since become 750 ml in metric. Nah that is what the rest of the world called a 26oz bottle before metric. Of course in the US that would be closer to 25 fluid ounces. shakes head US water must be heavier. A pint's a pound the world around! No, it isn't. Even if we stick to the undersized US pints of 16 fl.oz. instead of 20 fl. oz., the weight of something with a volume of one pint varies considerably depending on what the substance is. Even if we're talking about cooking and trying to convert recipes with quantities by weight to cup measurements, a cup of sugar and a cup of flour probably will not weigh the same, and the weight of the flour will depend on how densely it's packed -- could be as little as 5 oz. rather than the 8 oz. that the "pint's a pound the world around" formula indicates. At school I was taught 'A pint of water weighs a pound-and-a-quarter'. Then again that was in England. -- Shaun. "Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification in the DSM*." David Melville (in r.a.s.f1) (*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) |
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