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Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems. |
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#1
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[Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp
On Monday, July 3, 2000 at 3:00:00 AM UTC-4, Yi-Kuen Lee wrote:
Hi: I wonder if anybody know where I can buy the light dimmer switch for the 300 Watt torchiere-style halogen floor lamp. I checked my broken dimmer switch is Zing Ear ZE-02. I tried to check internet such as Digikey, Newmark.. But I couldn't find it. And I also find the manufacturer's homepage: http://www.zingear.com.tw and sent an email to them. They didn't reply my email. I think they just sell to the big company which makes the lamp. Yi-Kuen Hello, You can buy the switch from this link: https://www.ceilingfanswitch.com/pro...ing-ear-ze-02/ |
#2
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[Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp
On Saturday, 24 June 2017 22:42:57 UTC+1, wrote:
On Monday, July 3, 2000 at 3:00:00 AM UTC-4, Yi-Kuen Lee wrote: Hi: I wonder if anybody know where I can buy the light dimmer switch for the 300 Watt torchiere-style halogen floor lamp. I checked my broken dimmer switch is Zing Ear ZE-02. I tried to check internet such as Digikey, Newmark.. But I couldn't find it. And I also find the manufacturer's homepage: http://www.zingear.com.tw and sent an email to them. They didn't reply my email. I think they just sell to the big company which makes the lamp. Yi-Kuen Hello, You can buy the switch from this link: https://www.ceilingfanswitch.com/pro...ing-ear-ze-02/ Do you reckon it's still awaiting repair after 17 years? NT |
#3
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[Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp
Yeah, another Googler. I am oe but I do not drege up decades old posts, I just use it because...
But the thing is you are really not supposed to din halogen lamps because then the halogen is not sufficiently activated to allow the filament to operate in the higher range, which is the whole idea of halogen lamps. Actually I should have not posted because I do not ****ing care. |
#4
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[Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp
wrote:
---------------------------- Yeah, another Googler. I am oe but I do not drege up decades old posts, I just use it because... But the thing is you are really not supposed to din halogen lamps because then the halogen is not sufficiently activated to allow the filament to operate in the higher range, which is the whole idea of halogen lamps. ** Yet another dumb myth trotted out by jurb. Dimmed halogen bulbs last just fine - stage lighting has used dimmers and halogen lamps together for decades and get expected life out of them. Hint, when dimmed the filament is cooler and does not NEED the " halogen cycle " to extend its life. ...... Phil |
#5
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[Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp
wrote in message ... Yeah, another Googler. I am oe but I do not drege up decades old posts, I just use it because... But the thing is you are really not supposed to din halogen lamps because then the halogen is not sufficiently activated to allow the filament to operate in the higher range, which is the whole idea of halogen lamps. Its all about the; "halogen cycle" - vapourised tungsten recirculates and condenses back on the filament. Under a critical temperature, it deposits on the inside of the envelope just like regular bulbs. |
#6
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[Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp
On Sunday, 25 June 2017 22:11:59 UTC+1, Ian Field wrote:
wrote in message ... Yeah, another Googler. I am oe but I do not drege up decades old posts, I just use it because... But the thing is you are really not supposed to din halogen lamps because then the halogen is not sufficiently activated to allow the filament to operate in the higher range, which is the whole idea of halogen lamps. Its all about the; "halogen cycle" - vapourised tungsten recirculates and condenses back on the filament. Under a critical temperature, it deposits on the inside of the envelope just like regular bulbs. but slowly. And when full powered it then cleans itself. NT |
#7
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[Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp
wrote in message ... On Sunday, 25 June 2017 22:11:59 UTC+1, Ian Field wrote: wrote in message ... Yeah, another Googler. I am oe but I do not drege up decades old posts, I just use it because... But the thing is you are really not supposed to din halogen lamps because then the halogen is not sufficiently activated to allow the filament to operate in the higher range, which is the whole idea of halogen lamps. Its all about the; "halogen cycle" - vapourised tungsten recirculates and condenses back on the filament. Under a critical temperature, it deposits on the inside of the envelope just like regular bulbs. but slowly. And when full powered it then cleans itself. You'd have to get the quartz envelope seriously hot to do that - like glowing so white it gave off UV. |
#8
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[Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp
On Monday, 26 June 2017 20:59:17 UTC+1, Ian Field wrote:
tabbypurr wrote in message ... On Sunday, 25 June 2017 22:11:59 UTC+1, Ian Field wrote: wrote in message ... Yeah, another Googler. I am oe but I do not drege up decades old posts, I just use it because... But the thing is you are really not supposed to din halogen lamps because then the halogen is not sufficiently activated to allow the filament to operate in the higher range, which is the whole idea of halogen lamps. Its all about the; "halogen cycle" - vapourised tungsten recirculates and condenses back on the filament. Under a critical temperature, it deposits on the inside of the envelope just like regular bulbs. but slowly. And when full powered it then cleans itself. You'd have to get the quartz envelope seriously hot to do that - like glowing so white it gave off UV. AIUI they're self cleaning at rated voltage. NT |
#10
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[Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp
John Robertson wrote:
---------------------- When they are RUN at the rated voltage and power. If you dim them the tungsten is deposited on the quartz and short of heating the quarts to white hot (above poster's remarks) the tungsten is going to STAY on the quartz, not recoating on the filament. http://www.topbulb.com/blog/dimming-...halogen-cycle/ ** That is merely one person's opinion, not backed up with evidence. Wiki says differently : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haloge...on_performance Stage lighting uses dimming all the time with halogen lamps and there is no blackening or short life experienced - the lamps run much longer as expected. The claim that the "halogen cycle" puts metal back on the filament is true but it does not deposit it back where it came from so has little effect on lamp life. Most halogen lamps are low voltage or high powered - so in both cases the filaments are thicker than typical non halogen examples. Having a thick filament makes a halogen lamp last longer. ..... Phil |
#11
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[Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp
On Monday, 26 June 2017 23:14:32 UTC+1, John Robertson wrote:
On 2017/06/26 2:18 PM, tabbypurr wrote: On Monday, 26 June 2017 20:59:17 UTC+1, Ian Field wrote: tabbypurr wrote in message ... On Sunday, 25 June 2017 22:11:59 UTC+1, Ian Field wrote: wrote in message ... Yeah, another Googler. I am oe but I do not drege up decades old posts, I just use it because... But the thing is you are really not supposed to din halogen lamps because then the halogen is not sufficiently activated to allow the filament to operate in the higher range, which is the whole idea of halogen lamps. Its all about the; "halogen cycle" - vapourised tungsten recirculates and condenses back on the filament. Under a critical temperature, it deposits on the inside of the envelope just like regular bulbs. but slowly. And when full powered it then cleans itself. You'd have to get the quartz envelope seriously hot to do that - like glowing so white it gave off UV. AIUI they're self cleaning at rated voltage. When they are RUN at the rated voltage and power. If you dim them the tungsten is deposited on the quartz and short of heating the quarts to white hot (above poster's remarks) the tungsten is going to STAY on the quartz, not recoating on the filament. http://www.topbulb.com/blog/dimming-...halogen-cycle/ In other words don't do it. John That may be your belief. IRL halogen stage lighting works just fine. NT |
#12
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[Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp
wrote:
--------------------------- http://www.topbulb.com/blog/dimming-...halogen-cycle/ In other words don't do it. John That may be your belief. IRL halogen stage lighting works just fine. ** A better example to use is the hundreds of MILLIONS of 12V * halogen down lights* installed in homes - nearly al of which are run on dimmers. Users get mood light when needed PLSU a *large increase* in life span. QED. ..... Phil |
#13
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[Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp
On Sunday, June 25, 2017 at 7:53:16 AM UTC-4, wrote:
Yeah, another Googler. I am oe but I do not drege up decades old posts, I just use it because... Google does display the date m |
#14
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[Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp
"John Robertson" wrote in message ... On 2017/06/26 2:18 PM, wrote: On Monday, 26 June 2017 20:59:17 UTC+1, Ian Field wrote: tabbypurr wrote in message ... On Sunday, 25 June 2017 22:11:59 UTC+1, Ian Field wrote: wrote in message ... Yeah, another Googler. I am oe but I do not drege up decades old posts, I just use it because... But the thing is you are really not supposed to din halogen lamps because then the halogen is not sufficiently activated to allow the filament to operate in the higher range, which is the whole idea of halogen lamps. Its all about the; "halogen cycle" - vapourised tungsten recirculates and condenses back on the filament. Under a critical temperature, it deposits on the inside of the envelope just like regular bulbs. but slowly. And when full powered it then cleans itself. You'd have to get the quartz envelope seriously hot to do that - like glowing so white it gave off UV. AIUI they're self cleaning at rated voltage. When they are RUN at the rated voltage and power. If you dim them the tungsten is deposited on the quartz and short of heating the quarts to white hot (above poster's remarks) the tungsten is going to STAY on the quartz, not recoating on the filament. http://www.topbulb.com/blog/dimming-...halogen-cycle/ In other words don't do it. I wouldn't go so far as "don't do it" - if you're dimming it, a little shading probably isn't that much of a problem anyway. The manufacturers say "don't do it " to cover their asses. |
#15
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[Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp
"Phil Allison" wrote in message ... John Robertson wrote: ---------------------- When they are RUN at the rated voltage and power. If you dim them the tungsten is deposited on the quartz and short of heating the quarts to white hot (above poster's remarks) the tungsten is going to STAY on the quartz, not recoating on the filament. http://www.topbulb.com/blog/dimming-...halogen-cycle/ ** That is merely one person's opinion, not backed up with evidence. Wiki says differently : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haloge...on_performance Stage lighting uses dimming all the time with halogen lamps and there is no blackening or short life experienced - the lamps run much longer as expected. The claim that the "halogen cycle" puts metal back on the filament is true but it does not deposit it back where it came from so has little effect on lamp life. Most halogen lamps are low voltage or high powered - so in both cases the filaments are thicker than typical non halogen examples. Wrong - the filament surface get distinctly granular and weak spots are inevitable. With DC, the tungsten actually migrates along the filament length - it gets thinner at one end, and guess what happens next. |
#16
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[Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp
wrote in message ... On Monday, 26 June 2017 23:14:32 UTC+1, John Robertson wrote: On 2017/06/26 2:18 PM, tabbypurr wrote: On Monday, 26 June 2017 20:59:17 UTC+1, Ian Field wrote: tabbypurr wrote in message ... On Sunday, 25 June 2017 22:11:59 UTC+1, Ian Field wrote: wrote in message ... Yeah, another Googler. I am oe but I do not drege up decades old posts, I just use it because... But the thing is you are really not supposed to din halogen lamps because then the halogen is not sufficiently activated to allow the filament to operate in the higher range, which is the whole idea of halogen lamps. Its all about the; "halogen cycle" - vapourised tungsten recirculates and condenses back on the filament. Under a critical temperature, it deposits on the inside of the envelope just like regular bulbs. but slowly. And when full powered it then cleans itself. You'd have to get the quartz envelope seriously hot to do that - like glowing so white it gave off UV. AIUI they're self cleaning at rated voltage. When they are RUN at the rated voltage and power. If you dim them the tungsten is deposited on the quartz and short of heating the quarts to white hot (above poster's remarks) the tungsten is going to STAY on the quartz, not recoating on the filament. http://www.topbulb.com/blog/dimming-...halogen-cycle/ In other words don't do it. John That may be your belief. IRL halogen stage lighting works just fine. It wouldn't be any surprise if stage lighting is over run for short periods - filament failure probably makes shading nothing more than a trade off. |
#17
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[Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp
Ian Field wrote:
--------------------- When they are RUN at the rated voltage and power. If you dim them the tungsten is deposited on the quartz and short of heating the quarts to white hot (above poster's remarks) the tungsten is going to STAY on the quartz, not recoating on the filament. http://www.topbulb.com/blog/dimming-...halogen-cycle/ ** That is merely one person's opinion, not backed up with evidence. Wiki says differently : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haloge...on_performance Stage lighting uses dimming all the time with halogen lamps and there is no blackening or short life experienced - the lamps run much longer as expected. The claim that the "halogen cycle" puts metal back on the filament is true but it does not deposit it back where it came from so has little effect on lamp life. Most halogen lamps are low voltage or high powered - so in both cases the filaments are thicker than typical non halogen examples. Wrong .... ** So they are actually thinner are they ?? FOAD you ridiculous, know nothing bloody troll. ...... Phil |
#18
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[Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp
Ian ****wit Field wrote:
------------------------------ That may be your belief. IRL halogen stage lighting works just fine. It wouldn't be any surprise . ** Any fact whatever would be HUGE surprise to a ****wit like you. if stage lighting is over run for short periods ** Errr - dimmers only dim lamps down, not up. ****wit. ....... Phil |
#19
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[Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp
"Phil Allison" wrote in message ... Ian ****wit Field wrote: ------------------------------ That may be your belief. IRL halogen stage lighting works just fine. It wouldn't be any surprise . ** Any fact whatever would be HUGE surprise to a ****wit like you. if stage lighting is over run for short periods ** Errr - dimmers only dim lamps down, not up. They don't get any dimmer than you - some stage lighting used variacs that went up to 110%. |
#20
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[Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp
It is often assumed that incandescent and halogen light bulbs are completely different technologies. In fact, halogen is just a hybrid incandescent.
Both types of light bulbs use a tungsten filament. Both €œburn out€ when the filament breaks. Both use line and low voltage the same way. Also, both incandescent and halogen bulbs can be dimmed. But heres the interesting twist: the more a halogen bulb is dimmed, the more it becomes an incandescent light bulb again. How Incandescent and Halogen Differ The standard incandescent bulb is filled with a mixture of argon gas and a small amount of nitrogen gas. Inside this gas mix, the tungsten filament, heated to €œincandescence€, slowly evaporates. Thinner portions of the filament get hotter and they evaporate more quickly. The evaporated tungsten deposits on the inside wall of the glass. Eventually, the filament evaporates so much tungsten that it breaks or €œburns out€. A halogen bulb mimics the technology of incandescent except for two features. First, the filament and gas are contained in a quartz capsule resistant to high temperature. Second, a halogen gas such as bromine or iodine is added to the gas mix. With this gas mixture and higher filament temperatures, a chemical change occurs to the tungsten filament evaporation process. Instead of depositing the evaporated tungsten on the bulb glass, it is deposited instead back onto the filament itself. This process of filament regeneration is known as the halogen cycle. It can double the life of an incandescent bulb. In short the primary difference between halogen and incandescent is the existence of the halogen cycle operating in a quartz capsule. Dimming Halogen Lights and Bulb Life That brings us back to dimming. Dimming works the same way for both incandescent and halogen. Lower the filament temperature by modifying the voltage and get progressively less light output. The halogen cycle works only at high filament temperatures. If the halogen bulb is dimmed enough (down to only 20% less light), the filament temperature drops and the halogen cycle stops. At that point, it is operating in €œincandescent mode€ with evaporated tungsten being deposited on the capsule wall rather than back on the filament. Tip: While dimming often lengthens the life of incandescent bulbs, it may shorten the life of halogen bulbs and cause darkening of the quartz capsule. Thanks to: David Burtner http://www.topbulb.com/blog/dimming-...halogen-cycle/ Key Points: a) Halogen lamps are hybrid incandescent lamps. We knew that. b) The "Halogen Cycle" redeposits tungsten on the filament as compared to a standard incandescent lamp that gradually evaporates the tungsten. c) The halogen cycle stops at around 20% LESS LIGHT. That would be at/around 80% of full light. Whereupon the lamp behaves as a standard incandescent lamp. d) With all this in mind, a halogen lamp may be dimmed with the same technology, means and methods as a standard incandescent lamp. Primary effects are on life-span. The failure modes are unchanged, eventually the filament fails. It ain't nohow rocket science. Anyone with even a passing experience with lighting already knows all this -as well as even the lowliest sweeper at any given electrical supply house. Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA |
#21
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[Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp
On Wednesday, 28 June 2017 20:04:32 UTC+1, wrote:
It is often assumed that incandescent and halogen light bulbs are completely different technologies. In fact, halogen is just a hybrid incandescent. Both types of light bulbs use a tungsten filament. Both €œburn out€ when the filament breaks. Both use line and low voltage the same way. Also, both incandescent and halogen bulbs can be dimmed. But heres the interesting twist: the more a halogen bulb is dimmed, the more it becomes an incandescent light bulb again. How Incandescent and Halogen Differ The standard incandescent bulb is filled with a mixture of argon gas and a small amount of nitrogen gas. Inside this gas mix, the tungsten filament, heated to €œincandescence€, slowly evaporates. Thinner portions of the filament get hotter and they evaporate more quickly. The evaporated tungsten deposits on the inside wall of the glass. Eventually, the filament evaporates so much tungsten that it breaks or €œburns out€. A halogen bulb mimics the technology of incandescent except for two features. First, the filament and gas are contained in a quartz capsule resistant to high temperature. Second, a halogen gas such as bromine or iodine is added to the gas mix. With this gas mixture and higher filament temperatures, a chemical change occurs to the tungsten filament evaporation process. Instead of depositing the evaporated tungsten on the bulb glass, it is deposited instead back onto the filament itself. This process of filament regeneration is known as the halogen cycle. It can double the life of an incandescent bulb. In short the primary difference between halogen and incandescent is the existence of the halogen cycle operating in a quartz capsule. Dimming Halogen Lights and Bulb Life That brings us back to dimming. Dimming works the same way for both incandescent and halogen. Lower the filament temperature by modifying the voltage and get progressively less light output. The halogen cycle works only at high filament temperatures. If the halogen bulb is dimmed enough (down to only 20% less light), the filament temperature drops and the halogen cycle stops. At that point, it is operating in €œincandescent mode€ with evaporated tungsten being deposited on the capsule wall rather than back on the filament. Tip: While dimming often lengthens the life of incandescent bulbs, it may shorten the life of halogen bulbs and cause darkening of the quartz capsule. Thanks to: David Burtner http://www.topbulb.com/blog/dimming-...halogen-cycle/ Key Points: a) Halogen lamps are hybrid incandescent lamps. We knew that. b) The "Halogen Cycle" redeposits tungsten on the filament as compared to a standard incandescent lamp that gradually evaporates the tungsten. c) The halogen cycle stops at around 20% LESS LIGHT. That would be at/around 80% of full light. Whereupon the lamp behaves as a standard incandescent lamp. d) With all this in mind, a halogen lamp may be dimmed with the same technology, means and methods as a standard incandescent lamp. Primary effects are on life-span. The failure modes are unchanged, eventually the filament fails. It ain't nohow rocket science. Anyone with even a passing experience with lighting already knows all this -as well as even the lowliest sweeper at any given electrical supply house. Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA Since dimming is usually done at assorted levels, the above effect has sod all effect on lamp life in the real world in most cases. NT |
#22
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[Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp
On Wednesday, June 28, 2017 at 4:58:08 PM UTC-4, wrote:
Since dimming is usually done at assorted levels, the above effect has sod all effect on lamp life in the real world in most cases. Suffice it that if a halogen lamp operates at 80% of nominal voltage, the halogen effect (tungsten vapor re-depositing on the filament) will not take place - however that reduction-in-voltage occurs. Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA |
#23
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[Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp
On Wednesday, June 28, 2017 at 3:04:32 PM UTC-4, wrote:
It is often assumed that incandescent and halogen light bulbs are completely different technologies. In fact, halogen is just a hybrid incandescent. Both types of light bulbs use a tungsten filament. Both €œburn out€ when the filament breaks. Both use line and low voltage the same way. Also, both incandescent and halogen bulbs can be dimmed. But heres the interesting twist: the more a halogen bulb is dimmed, the more it becomes an incandescent light bulb again. How Incandescent and Halogen Differ The standard incandescent bulb is filled with a mixture of argon gas and a small amount of nitrogen gas. Inside this gas mix, the tungsten filament, heated to €œincandescence€, slowly evaporates. Thinner portions of the filament get hotter and they evaporate more quickly. The evaporated tungsten deposits on the inside wall of the glass. Eventually, the filament evaporates so much tungsten that it breaks or €œburns out€. A halogen bulb mimics the technology of incandescent except for two features. First, the filament and gas are contained in a quartz capsule resistant to high temperature. Second, a halogen gas such as bromine or iodine is added to the gas mix. With this gas mixture and higher filament temperatures, a chemical change occurs to the tungsten filament evaporation process. Instead of depositing the evaporated tungsten on the bulb glass, it is deposited instead back onto the filament itself. This process of filament regeneration is known as the halogen cycle. It can double the life of an incandescent bulb. In short the primary difference between halogen and incandescent is the existence of the halogen cycle operating in a quartz capsule. Dimming Halogen Lights and Bulb Life That brings us back to dimming. Dimming works the same way for both incandescent and halogen. Lower the filament temperature by modifying the voltage and get progressively less light output. The halogen cycle works only at high filament temperatures. If the halogen bulb is dimmed enough (down to only 20% less light), the filament temperature drops and the halogen cycle stops. At that point, it is operating in €œincandescent mode€ with evaporated tungsten being deposited on the capsule wall rather than back on the filament. Tip: While dimming often lengthens the life of incandescent bulbs, it may shorten the life of halogen bulbs and cause darkening of the quartz capsule. Thanks to: David Burtner http://www.topbulb.com/blog/dimming-...halogen-cycle/ Key Points: a) Halogen lamps are hybrid incandescent lamps. We knew that. b) The "Halogen Cycle" redeposits tungsten on the filament as compared to a standard incandescent lamp that gradually evaporates the tungsten. c) The halogen cycle stops at around 20% LESS LIGHT. That would be at/around 80% of full light. Whereupon the lamp behaves as a standard incandescent lamp. d) With all this in mind, a halogen lamp may be dimmed with the same technology, means and methods as a standard incandescent lamp. Primary effects are on life-span. The failure modes are unchanged, eventually the filament fails. It ain't nohow rocket science. Anyone with even a passing experience with lighting already knows all this -as well as even the lowliest sweeper at any given electrical supply house. Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA One more thing: if you look at a halogen lamp crosseyed the filament will fail from the shock of your stare.. The filaments are not supported as they are in a standard incandescent lamp so they must not be subject to shock or vibration. |
#24
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[Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp
On Wednesday, 28 June 2017 22:05:39 UTC+1, wrote:
On Wednesday, June 28, 2017 at 4:58:08 PM UTC-4, tabby wrote: Since dimming is usually done at assorted levels, the above effect has sod all effect on lamp life in the real world in most cases. Suffice it that if a halogen lamp operates at 80% of nominal voltage, the I thought you said 80% of light output, an entirely different point to 80% of voltage halogen effect (tungsten vapor re-depositing on the filament) will not take place - however that reduction-in-voltage occurs. At 80% voltage that would be an irrelevance. I presumed yuo know your filament lamp equations, now I'm not sure. NT |
#25
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[Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp
On Wednesday, 28 June 2017 22:07:13 UTC+1, John-Del wrote:
One more thing: if you look at a halogen lamp crosseyed the filament will fail from the shock of your stare.. The filaments are not supported as they are in a standard incandescent lamp so they must not be subject to shock or vibration. Ah, that'll be why they've been so popular as car headlamps. It's the thin mains 50w ones that don't like vibration. NT |
#26
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[Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp
Ian Field the ****wit Bull**** Artist wrote:
--------------------------------------------- That may be your belief. IRL halogen stage lighting works just fine. It wouldn't be any surprise . ** Any fact whatever would be HUGE surprise to a ****wit like you. if stage lighting is over run for short periods ** Errr - dimmers only dim lamps down, not up. They don't get any dimmer than you - some stage lighting used variacs that went up to 110%. ** Long in the past when there were no halogen lamps involved. You ****wit, lying POS. ..... Phil |
#27
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[Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp
The Peter Wieck bull**** artist wrote:
------------------------------------------- ( snil pil eof ********) Thanks to: David Burtner http://www.topbulb.com/blog/dimming-...halogen-cycle/ ** Why on earth post that idiot article here??? It contains way more fiction than fact. It ain't nohow rocket science. Anyone with even a passing experience with lighting already knows all this -as well as even the lowliest sweeper at any given electrical supply house. ** ********. How many halogen down lights are in domestic use round the world? The vast majority are being used with dimmers. Uses get several times more life by doing so. Burtner is a bull****ting fool. Like you. ..... Phil |
#28
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[Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp
On 2017/06/26 9:52 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
John Robertson wrote: ---------------------- When they are RUN at the rated voltage and power. If you dim them the tungsten is deposited on the quartz and short of heating the quarts to white hot (above poster's remarks) the tungsten is going to STAY on the quartz, not recoating on the filament. http://www.topbulb.com/blog/dimming-...halogen-cycle/ ** That is merely one person's opinion, not backed up with evidence. Wiki says differently : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haloge...on_performance Stage lighting uses dimming all the time with halogen lamps and there is no blackening or short life experienced - the lamps run much longer as expected. The claim that the "halogen cycle" puts metal back on the filament is true but it does not deposit it back where it came from so has little effect on lamp life. Most halogen lamps are low voltage or high powered - so in both cases the filaments are thicker than typical non halogen examples. Having a thick filament makes a halogen lamp last longer. ..... Phil Well, I must confess I've never studied halogen bulbs on dimmers but reading Lutron's site does not give any concerns from them about halogens on dimmers in household use: http://www.lutron.com/en-US/Educatio...ingBasics.aspx I would like to assume that you are correct, Phil. One problem though - your reference source says: "With a reduced voltage the evaporation is lower and there may be too much halogen, which can lead to abnormal failure." and also: "There are many situations where halogen lamps are dimmed successfully. However, lamp life may not be extended as much as predicted. The life span on dimming depends on lamp construction, the halogen additive used and whether dimming is normally expected for this type." So, perhaps theatre halogen bulbs are designed to be dimmed? http://stagelightingprimer.com/slfs-light_sources.html Perhaps not, they don't mind of the bulb lasts a shorter time, but want the brightness in a compact source. Also, are house halogen bulbs designed to be dimmed? Philips bulbs seem to be (perhaps...): http://www.philips.ca/c-m-li/halogen-light-bulbs "Halogen lamps are designed to operate at very high temperatures to ensure optimal performance. Dimming at above 60% of the rated volts can be done. It is recommended to revert to full brightness for one minute prior to switching the lamps off." In other words do not run them above 60% of rated line voltage for extended times without heating/running them at 100% for one minute prior to turning off. I am SURE everyone will do that! A double blind test would be nice to put this to bed. John :-#)# |
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[Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp
John-Delusional wrote:
--------------------------- One more thing: if you look at a halogen lamp crosseyed the filament will fail from the shock of your stare.. The filaments are not supported as they are in a standard incandescent lamp so they must not be subject to shock or vibration. ** See pics of 150W halogen tube lamps: http://www.destinationlighting.com/i...13549~zoom.jpg http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pro...eef67_1000.jpg https://images.musicstore.de/images/...000456-000.jpg How about a 1000W one: http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...L._SL1500_.jpg ..... Phil |
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[Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp
On Thursday, 29 June 2017 01:30:26 UTC+1, Phil Allison wrote:
Ian Field wrote: That may be your belief. IRL halogen stage lighting works just fine. snip They don't get any dimmer than you - some stage lighting used variacs that went up to 110%. ** Long in the past when there were no halogen lamps involved. Yes. I'm not sure how tolerant halogens would be of +10%. You ****wit, lying POS. no, just short on knowledge. NT |
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[Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp
On Thursday, 29 June 2017 02:35:41 UTC+1, John Robertson wrote:
Well, I must confess I've never studied halogen bulbs on dimmers but reading Lutron's site does not give any concerns from them about halogens on dimmers in household use: http://www.lutron.com/en-US/Educatio...ingBasics.aspx I would like to assume that you are correct, Phil. One problem though - your reference source says: "With a reduced voltage the evaporation is lower and there may be too much halogen, which can lead to abnormal failure." and also: "There are many situations where halogen lamps are dimmed successfully. However, lamp life may not be extended as much as predicted. The life span on dimming depends on lamp construction, the halogen additive used and whether dimming is normally expected for this type." So, perhaps theatre halogen bulbs are designed to be dimmed? http://stagelightingprimer.com/slfs-light_sources.html Perhaps not, they don't mind of the bulb lasts a shorter time, but want the brightness in a compact source. Also, are house halogen bulbs designed to be dimmed? Philips bulbs seem to be (perhaps...): http://www.philips.ca/c-m-li/halogen-light-bulbs "Halogen lamps are designed to operate at very high temperatures to ensure optimal performance. Dimming at above 60% of the rated volts can be done. It is recommended to revert to full brightness for one minute prior to switching the lamps off." In other words do not run them above 60% of rated line voltage for extended times without heating/running them at 100% for one minute prior to turning off. I am SURE everyone will do that! A double blind test would be nice to put this to bed. John :-#)# I fear you're taking a seller's waffle too seriously. Such things can be offloading liability and/or feigning expertise. The simple reality is halogens have been dimmed by all percentages in massive numbers and problems have not resulted. (I might feel like addressing the specific points raised another day.) NT |
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[Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp
On Thursday, 29 June 2017 02:36:55 UTC+1, Phil Allison wrote:
John-Delusional wrote: One more thing: if you look at a halogen lamp crosseyed the filament will fail from the shock of your stare.. The filaments are not supported as they are in a standard incandescent lamp so they must not be subject to shock or vibration. ** See pics of 150W halogen tube lamps: http://www.destinationlighting.com/i...13549~zoom.jpg http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pro...eef67_1000.jpg https://images.musicstore.de/images/...000456-000.jpg How about a 1000W one: http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...L._SL1500_.jpg .... Phil Both types exist, with supports & without. NT |
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[Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp
John Robertson is a Google Monkey
----------------------------------- So, perhaps theatre halogen bulbs are designed to be dimmed? ** Perhaps your fat arse is on fire ? Ever think of that? "Halogen lamps are designed to operate at very high temperatures to ensure optimal performance. Dimming at above 60% of the rated volts can be done. It is recommended to revert to full brightness for one minute prior to switching the lamps off." ** Drivel, not real information. In other words do not run them above 60% of rated line voltage for extended times without heating/running them at 100% for one minute prior to turning off. I am SURE everyone will do that! ** The false warning is about running halogen BELOW 60% rated voltage. 60% equates to about 10 to 15% of normal light output which is very dim. BTW: Ever see or use a halogen down light? Standard practice is to run them off dimmers at any level you like. Googling finds you every piece of misinformation that ever existed. ..... Phil |
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[Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp
wrote:
-------------------------- You ****wit, lying POS. no, just short on knowledge. ** Ian Field is a prize ****wit, a congenital liar and a POS. He makes facts up and uses false logic constantly. He is clearly an autistic dim wit. Just like thousands of other internet trolls. ...... Phil |
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[Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp
On Thursday, 29 June 2017 03:23:20 UTC+1, Phil Allison wrote:
tabby wrote: You ****wit, lying POS. no, just short on knowledge. ** Ian Field is a prize ****wit, a congenital liar and a POS. He makes facts up and uses false logic constantly. He is clearly an autistic dim wit. Just like thousands of other internet trolls. That interpretation is partly why you get so angry over so little. NT |
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[Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp
On Wednesday, June 28, 2017 at 9:36:55 PM UTC-4, Phil Allison wrote:
John-Delusional wrote: --------------------------- One more thing: if you look at a halogen lamp crosseyed the filament will fail from the shock of your stare.. The filaments are not supported as they are in a standard incandescent lamp so they must not be subject to shock or vibration. ** See pics of 150W halogen tube lamps: http://www.destinationlighting.com/i...13549~zoom.jpg http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pro...eef67_1000.jpg https://images.musicstore.de/images/...000456-000.jpg How about a 1000W one: http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...L._SL1500_.jpg .... Phil Here Phallusun, read this: http://www.gelighting.com/LightingWe...m281-33642.pdf Since this is not on Wikipedia (your go-to source of your "knowledge"), you might learn something about halogen and rough service. And when you're done reading it, print it out several dozen copies, roll them up and stick them firmly up you ass where it might do the rest of us some good. How many newsgroups do you have to pollute with your anal emanations before you realize that it's YOU. |
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[Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp
wrote:
---------------------------- Phil Allison wrote: tabby wrote: You ****wit, lying POS. no, just short on knowledge. ** Ian Field is a prize ****wit, a congenital liar and a POS. He makes facts up and uses false logic constantly. He is clearly an autistic dim wit. Just like thousands of other internet trolls. That interpretation ... ** It ain't no "interpretation" - pal. Field is a public menace on usenet and elsewhere too, I bet. FYI: I do not get angry, that is YOUR misinterpretation. But I reserve the RIGHT to publicly out and thoroughly condemn bull**** artists and trolls. Seems YOU have trouble even identifying them. ..... Phil |
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[Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp
John-Delusional ****wit wrote: --------------------------------- One more thing: if you look at a halogen lamp crosseyed the filament will fail from the shock of your stare.. The filaments are not supported as they are in a standard incandescent lamp so they must not be subject to shock or vibration. ** See pics of 150W halogen tube lamps: http://www.destinationlighting.com/i...13549~zoom.jpg http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pro...eef67_1000.jpg https://images.musicstore.de/images/...000456-000.jpg How about a 1000W one: http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...L._SL1500_.jpg http://www.gelighting.com/LightingWe...m281-33642.pdf ** You can see the links to several pics that I posted ? All of them show halogen tube lamps with multiple filament supports. They are real pics published by folk who make and sell the lamps. You can see them ?? Wot a ****ing MORON. ...... Phil |
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[Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp
Phil Allison wrote: ---------------------- John-Delusional wrote: --------------------------- One more thing: if you look at a halogen lamp crosseyed the filament will fail from the shock of your stare.. The filaments are not supported as they are in a standard incandescent lamp so they must not be subject to shock or vibration. ** See pics of 150W halogen tube lamps: http://www.destinationlighting.com/i...13549~zoom.jpg http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pro...eef67_1000.jpg https://images.musicstore.de/images/...000456-000.jpg How about a 1000W one: http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...L._SL1500_.jpg ** Here is a Sylvania 42W halogen replacement for a standard GLS bulb: https://media.tradezone.com.au/image...0/18579/30.jpg Note how the filament passes over a glass support bridge at the top of the small envelope. Most of the filament is coiled but the section over the bridge is not. ..... Phil |
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[Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp
On 2017/06/28 6:58 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
John Robertson is a Google Monkey ----------------------------------- So, perhaps theatre halogen bulbs are designed to be dimmed? ** Perhaps your fat arse is on fire ? Ever think of that? Not sure what that has to do with the question raised by your source (wikipedia) where the point was raised that theatre lighting had their own expectations about the use of halogen bulbs. "Halogen lamps are designed to operate at very high temperatures to ensure optimal performance. Dimming at above 60% of the rated volts can be done. It is recommended to revert to full brightness for one minute prior to switching the lamps off." ** Drivel, not real information. Excuse me Phil, but I was quoting from YOUR wikipedia reference source, not mine. In other words do not run them above 60% of rated line voltage for extended times without heating/running them at 100% for one minute prior to turning off. I am SURE everyone will do that! ** The false warning is about running halogen BELOW 60% rated voltage. Not the same thing, they are using the word above to mean above 60% of rated voltage, not below 60% rated voltage. At least that was how I read your source - the wikipedia article quoted by you in previous email. Which I read. 60% equates to about 10 to 15% of normal light output which is very dim. BTW: Ever see or use a halogen down light? Standard practice is to run them off dimmers at any level you like. Of course, people will do whatever they like - that was not the question. The original question was was it a good idea to run halogen lights on dimmers and would it adversely affect their rated life span. Googling finds you every piece of misinformation that ever existed. ..... Phil You may be an excellent designer of electronics, but are you a halogen lighting expert too? Or are you (like me) just putting forward opinion based on personal research and/or anecdotal experiences? This is supposed to be a learning tool for all concerned after all, is it not? John |
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