Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems.

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Default [Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp

On Monday, July 3, 2000 at 3:00:00 AM UTC-4, Yi-Kuen Lee wrote:
Hi:

I wonder if anybody know where I can buy the light dimmer switch for
the 300 Watt torchiere-style halogen floor lamp. I checked my broken
dimmer switch is Zing Ear ZE-02. I tried to check internet such as
Digikey, Newmark.. But I couldn't find it. And I also find the manufacturer's
homepage: http://www.zingear.com.tw and sent an email to them. They didn't
reply my email. I think they just sell to the big company which makes the lamp.

Yi-Kuen


Hello,

You can buy the switch from this link:
https://www.ceilingfanswitch.com/pro...ing-ear-ze-02/
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Default [Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp

On Saturday, 24 June 2017 22:42:57 UTC+1, wrote:
On Monday, July 3, 2000 at 3:00:00 AM UTC-4, Yi-Kuen Lee wrote:
Hi:

I wonder if anybody know where I can buy the light dimmer switch for
the 300 Watt torchiere-style halogen floor lamp. I checked my broken
dimmer switch is Zing Ear ZE-02. I tried to check internet such as
Digikey, Newmark.. But I couldn't find it. And I also find the manufacturer's
homepage: http://www.zingear.com.tw and sent an email to them. They didn't
reply my email. I think they just sell to the big company which makes the lamp.

Yi-Kuen


Hello,

You can buy the switch from this link:
https://www.ceilingfanswitch.com/pro...ing-ear-ze-02/


Do you reckon it's still awaiting repair after 17 years?


NT
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Default [Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp

Yeah, another Googler. I am oe but I do not drege up decades old posts, I just use it because...

But the thing is you are really not supposed to din halogen lamps because then the halogen is not sufficiently activated to allow the filament to operate in the higher range, which is the whole idea of halogen lamps.

Actually I should have not posted because I do not ****ing care.

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Default [Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp

wrote:

----------------------------

Yeah, another Googler. I am oe but I do not drege up decades old posts,
I just use it because...

But the thing is you are really not supposed to din halogen lamps because
then the halogen is not sufficiently activated to allow the filament to
operate in the higher range, which is the whole idea of halogen lamps.



** Yet another dumb myth trotted out by jurb.

Dimmed halogen bulbs last just fine - stage lighting has used dimmers and halogen lamps together for decades and get expected life out of them.

Hint, when dimmed the filament is cooler and does not NEED the " halogen cycle " to extend its life.


...... Phil




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Default [Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp



wrote in message
...
Yeah, another Googler. I am oe but I do not drege up decades old posts, I
just use it because...

But the thing is you are really not supposed to din halogen lamps because
then the halogen is not sufficiently activated to allow the filament to
operate in the higher range, which is the whole idea of halogen lamps.


Its all about the; "halogen cycle" - vapourised tungsten recirculates and
condenses back on the filament. Under a critical temperature, it deposits on
the inside of the envelope just like regular bulbs.



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Default [Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp

On Sunday, 25 June 2017 22:11:59 UTC+1, Ian Field wrote:
wrote in message
...
Yeah, another Googler. I am oe but I do not drege up decades old posts, I
just use it because...

But the thing is you are really not supposed to din halogen lamps because
then the halogen is not sufficiently activated to allow the filament to
operate in the higher range, which is the whole idea of halogen lamps.


Its all about the; "halogen cycle" - vapourised tungsten recirculates and
condenses back on the filament. Under a critical temperature, it deposits on
the inside of the envelope just like regular bulbs.


but slowly. And when full powered it then cleans itself.


NT
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Default [Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp



wrote in message
...
On Sunday, 25 June 2017 22:11:59 UTC+1, Ian Field wrote:
wrote in message
...
Yeah, another Googler. I am oe but I do not drege up decades old posts,
I
just use it because...

But the thing is you are really not supposed to din halogen lamps
because
then the halogen is not sufficiently activated to allow the filament to
operate in the higher range, which is the whole idea of halogen lamps.


Its all about the; "halogen cycle" - vapourised tungsten recirculates and
condenses back on the filament. Under a critical temperature, it deposits
on
the inside of the envelope just like regular bulbs.


but slowly. And when full powered it then cleans itself.


You'd have to get the quartz envelope seriously hot to do that - like
glowing so white it gave off UV.

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Default [Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp

On Monday, 26 June 2017 20:59:17 UTC+1, Ian Field wrote:
tabbypurr wrote in message
...
On Sunday, 25 June 2017 22:11:59 UTC+1, Ian Field wrote:
wrote in message
...
Yeah, another Googler. I am oe but I do not drege up decades old posts,
I
just use it because...

But the thing is you are really not supposed to din halogen lamps
because
then the halogen is not sufficiently activated to allow the filament to
operate in the higher range, which is the whole idea of halogen lamps.

Its all about the; "halogen cycle" - vapourised tungsten recirculates and
condenses back on the filament. Under a critical temperature, it deposits
on
the inside of the envelope just like regular bulbs.


but slowly. And when full powered it then cleans itself.


You'd have to get the quartz envelope seriously hot to do that - like
glowing so white it gave off UV.


AIUI they're self cleaning at rated voltage.


NT
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Default [Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp

On 2017/06/26 2:18 PM, wrote:
On Monday, 26 June 2017 20:59:17 UTC+1, Ian Field wrote:
tabbypurr wrote in message
...
On Sunday, 25 June 2017 22:11:59 UTC+1, Ian Field wrote:
wrote in message
...
Yeah, another Googler. I am oe but I do not drege up decades old posts,
I
just use it because...

But the thing is you are really not supposed to din halogen lamps
because
then the halogen is not sufficiently activated to allow the filament to
operate in the higher range, which is the whole idea of halogen lamps.

Its all about the; "halogen cycle" - vapourised tungsten recirculates and
condenses back on the filament. Under a critical temperature, it deposits
on
the inside of the envelope just like regular bulbs.

but slowly. And when full powered it then cleans itself.


You'd have to get the quartz envelope seriously hot to do that - like
glowing so white it gave off UV.


AIUI they're self cleaning at rated voltage.


When they are RUN at the rated voltage and power. If you dim them the
tungsten is deposited on the quartz and short of heating the quarts to
white hot (above poster's remarks) the tungsten is going to STAY on the
quartz, not recoating on the filament.

http://www.topbulb.com/blog/dimming-...halogen-cycle/

In other words don't do it.

John


NT



--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd.
MOVED to #7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3
(604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
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Default [Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp

John Robertson wrote:

----------------------


When they are RUN at the rated voltage and power. If you dim them the
tungsten is deposited on the quartz and short of heating the quarts to
white hot (above poster's remarks) the tungsten is going to STAY on the
quartz, not recoating on the filament.

http://www.topbulb.com/blog/dimming-...halogen-cycle/


** That is merely one person's opinion, not backed up with evidence.

Wiki says differently :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haloge...on_performance

Stage lighting uses dimming all the time with halogen lamps and there is no blackening or short life experienced - the lamps run much longer as expected.

The claim that the "halogen cycle" puts metal back on the filament is true but it does not deposit it back where it came from so has little effect on lamp life.

Most halogen lamps are low voltage or high powered - so in both cases the filaments are thicker than typical non halogen examples.

Having a thick filament makes a halogen lamp last longer.



..... Phil







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Default [Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp

On Monday, 26 June 2017 23:14:32 UTC+1, John Robertson wrote:
On 2017/06/26 2:18 PM, tabbypurr wrote:
On Monday, 26 June 2017 20:59:17 UTC+1, Ian Field wrote:
tabbypurr wrote in message
...
On Sunday, 25 June 2017 22:11:59 UTC+1, Ian Field wrote:
wrote in message
...
Yeah, another Googler. I am oe but I do not drege up decades old posts,
I
just use it because...

But the thing is you are really not supposed to din halogen lamps
because
then the halogen is not sufficiently activated to allow the filament to
operate in the higher range, which is the whole idea of halogen lamps.

Its all about the; "halogen cycle" - vapourised tungsten recirculates and
condenses back on the filament. Under a critical temperature, it deposits
on
the inside of the envelope just like regular bulbs.

but slowly. And when full powered it then cleans itself.

You'd have to get the quartz envelope seriously hot to do that - like
glowing so white it gave off UV.


AIUI they're self cleaning at rated voltage.


When they are RUN at the rated voltage and power. If you dim them the
tungsten is deposited on the quartz and short of heating the quarts to
white hot (above poster's remarks) the tungsten is going to STAY on the
quartz, not recoating on the filament.

http://www.topbulb.com/blog/dimming-...halogen-cycle/

In other words don't do it.

John


That may be your belief. IRL halogen stage lighting works just fine.


NT
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Default [Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp

wrote:

---------------------------

http://www.topbulb.com/blog/dimming-...halogen-cycle/

In other words don't do it.

John


That may be your belief. IRL halogen stage lighting works just fine.



** A better example to use is the hundreds of MILLIONS of 12V * halogen down lights* installed in homes - nearly al of which are run on dimmers.

Users get mood light when needed PLSU a *large increase* in life span.

QED.



..... Phil




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Default [Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp

On Sunday, June 25, 2017 at 7:53:16 AM UTC-4, wrote:
Yeah, another Googler. I am oe but I do not drege up decades old posts, I just use it because...


Google does display the date
m
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Default [Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp



"John Robertson" wrote in message
...
On 2017/06/26 2:18 PM, wrote:
On Monday, 26 June 2017 20:59:17 UTC+1, Ian Field wrote:
tabbypurr wrote in message
...
On Sunday, 25 June 2017 22:11:59 UTC+1, Ian Field wrote:
wrote in message
...
Yeah, another Googler. I am oe but I do not drege up decades old
posts,
I
just use it because...

But the thing is you are really not supposed to din halogen lamps
because
then the halogen is not sufficiently activated to allow the filament
to
operate in the higher range, which is the whole idea of halogen
lamps.

Its all about the; "halogen cycle" - vapourised tungsten recirculates
and
condenses back on the filament. Under a critical temperature, it
deposits
on
the inside of the envelope just like regular bulbs.

but slowly. And when full powered it then cleans itself.

You'd have to get the quartz envelope seriously hot to do that - like
glowing so white it gave off UV.


AIUI they're self cleaning at rated voltage.


When they are RUN at the rated voltage and power. If you dim them the
tungsten is deposited on the quartz and short of heating the quarts to
white hot (above poster's remarks) the tungsten is going to STAY on the
quartz, not recoating on the filament.

http://www.topbulb.com/blog/dimming-...halogen-cycle/

In other words don't do it.


I wouldn't go so far as "don't do it" - if you're dimming it, a little
shading probably isn't that much of a problem anyway.

The manufacturers say "don't do it " to cover their asses.

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Default [Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp



"Phil Allison" wrote in message
...
John Robertson wrote:

----------------------


When they are RUN at the rated voltage and power. If you dim them the
tungsten is deposited on the quartz and short of heating the quarts to
white hot (above poster's remarks) the tungsten is going to STAY on the
quartz, not recoating on the filament.

http://www.topbulb.com/blog/dimming-...halogen-cycle/


** That is merely one person's opinion, not backed up with evidence.

Wiki says differently :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haloge...on_performance

Stage lighting uses dimming all the time with halogen lamps and there is
no blackening or short life experienced - the lamps run much longer as
expected.

The claim that the "halogen cycle" puts metal back on the filament is true
but it does not deposit it back where it came from so has little effect on
lamp life.

Most halogen lamps are low voltage or high powered - so in both cases the
filaments are thicker than typical non halogen examples.


Wrong - the filament surface get distinctly granular and weak spots are
inevitable. With DC, the tungsten actually migrates along the filament
length - it gets thinner at one end, and guess what happens next.



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Default [Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp



wrote in message
...
On Monday, 26 June 2017 23:14:32 UTC+1, John Robertson wrote:
On 2017/06/26 2:18 PM, tabbypurr wrote:
On Monday, 26 June 2017 20:59:17 UTC+1, Ian Field wrote:
tabbypurr wrote in message
...
On Sunday, 25 June 2017 22:11:59 UTC+1, Ian Field wrote:
wrote in message
...
Yeah, another Googler. I am oe but I do not drege up decades old
posts,
I
just use it because...

But the thing is you are really not supposed to din halogen lamps
because
then the halogen is not sufficiently activated to allow the
filament to
operate in the higher range, which is the whole idea of halogen
lamps.

Its all about the; "halogen cycle" - vapourised tungsten
recirculates and
condenses back on the filament. Under a critical temperature, it
deposits
on
the inside of the envelope just like regular bulbs.

but slowly. And when full powered it then cleans itself.

You'd have to get the quartz envelope seriously hot to do that - like
glowing so white it gave off UV.

AIUI they're self cleaning at rated voltage.


When they are RUN at the rated voltage and power. If you dim them the
tungsten is deposited on the quartz and short of heating the quarts to
white hot (above poster's remarks) the tungsten is going to STAY on the
quartz, not recoating on the filament.

http://www.topbulb.com/blog/dimming-...halogen-cycle/

In other words don't do it.

John


That may be your belief. IRL halogen stage lighting works just fine.


It wouldn't be any surprise if stage lighting is over run for short
periods - filament failure probably makes shading nothing more than a trade
off.

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Default [Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp

Ian Field wrote:

---------------------


When they are RUN at the rated voltage and power. If you dim them the
tungsten is deposited on the quartz and short of heating the quarts to
white hot (above poster's remarks) the tungsten is going to STAY on the
quartz, not recoating on the filament.

http://www.topbulb.com/blog/dimming-...halogen-cycle/


** That is merely one person's opinion, not backed up with evidence.

Wiki says differently :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haloge...on_performance

Stage lighting uses dimming all the time with halogen lamps and there is
no blackening or short life experienced - the lamps run much longer as
expected.

The claim that the "halogen cycle" puts metal back on the filament is true
but it does not deposit it back where it came from so has little effect on
lamp life.

Most halogen lamps are low voltage or high powered - so in both cases the
filaments are thicker than typical non halogen examples.


Wrong ....



** So they are actually thinner are they ??


FOAD you ridiculous, know nothing bloody troll.




...... Phil


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Default [Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp

Ian ****wit Field wrote:

------------------------------


That may be your belief. IRL halogen stage lighting works just fine.


It wouldn't be any surprise .



** Any fact whatever would be HUGE surprise to a ****wit like you.


if stage lighting is over run for short periods


** Errr - dimmers only dim lamps down, not up.

****wit.




....... Phil
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Default [Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp



"Phil Allison" wrote in message
...
Ian ****wit Field wrote:

------------------------------


That may be your belief. IRL halogen stage lighting works just fine.


It wouldn't be any surprise .



** Any fact whatever would be HUGE surprise to a ****wit like you.


if stage lighting is over run for short periods


** Errr - dimmers only dim lamps down, not up.


They don't get any dimmer than you - some stage lighting used variacs that
went up to 110%.

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Default [Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp

It is often assumed that incandescent and halogen light bulbs are completely different technologies. In fact, halogen is just a hybrid incandescent.

Both types of light bulbs use a tungsten filament. Both €œburn out€ when the filament breaks. Both use line and low voltage the same way.

Also, both incandescent and halogen bulbs can be dimmed. But heres the interesting twist: the more a halogen bulb is dimmed, the more it becomes an incandescent light bulb again.

How Incandescent and Halogen Differ
The standard incandescent bulb is filled with a mixture of argon gas and a small amount of nitrogen gas. Inside this gas mix, the tungsten filament, heated to €œincandescence€, slowly evaporates. Thinner portions of the filament get hotter and they evaporate more quickly. The evaporated tungsten deposits on the inside wall of the glass. Eventually, the filament evaporates so much tungsten that it breaks or €œburns out€.

A halogen bulb mimics the technology of incandescent except for two features. First, the filament and gas are contained in a quartz capsule resistant to high temperature. Second, a halogen gas such as bromine or iodine is added to the gas mix. With this gas mixture and higher filament temperatures, a chemical change occurs to the tungsten filament evaporation process. Instead of depositing the evaporated tungsten on the bulb glass, it is deposited instead back onto the filament itself. This process of filament regeneration is known as the halogen cycle. It can double the life of an incandescent bulb.

In short the primary difference between halogen and incandescent is the existence of the halogen cycle operating in a quartz capsule.

Dimming Halogen Lights and Bulb Life
That brings us back to dimming.

Dimming works the same way for both incandescent and halogen. Lower the filament temperature by modifying the voltage and get progressively less light output. The halogen cycle works only at high filament temperatures. If the halogen bulb is dimmed enough (down to only 20% less light), the filament temperature drops and the halogen cycle stops. At that point, it is operating in €œincandescent mode€ with evaporated tungsten being deposited on the capsule wall rather than back on the filament.

Tip: While dimming often lengthens the life of incandescent bulbs, it may shorten the life of halogen bulbs and cause darkening of the quartz capsule.

Thanks to: David Burtner

http://www.topbulb.com/blog/dimming-...halogen-cycle/

Key Points:

a) Halogen lamps are hybrid incandescent lamps. We knew that.
b) The "Halogen Cycle" redeposits tungsten on the filament as compared to a standard incandescent lamp that gradually evaporates the tungsten.
c) The halogen cycle stops at around 20% LESS LIGHT. That would be at/around 80% of full light. Whereupon the lamp behaves as a standard incandescent lamp.
d) With all this in mind, a halogen lamp may be dimmed with the same technology, means and methods as a standard incandescent lamp. Primary effects are on life-span. The failure modes are unchanged, eventually the filament fails.

It ain't nohow rocket science.

Anyone with even a passing experience with lighting already knows all this -as well as even the lowliest sweeper at any given electrical supply house.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA


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Default [Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp

On Wednesday, 28 June 2017 20:04:32 UTC+1, wrote:
It is often assumed that incandescent and halogen light bulbs are completely different technologies. In fact, halogen is just a hybrid incandescent.

Both types of light bulbs use a tungsten filament. Both €œburn out€ when the filament breaks. Both use line and low voltage the same way.

Also, both incandescent and halogen bulbs can be dimmed. But heres the interesting twist: the more a halogen bulb is dimmed, the more it becomes an incandescent light bulb again.

How Incandescent and Halogen Differ
The standard incandescent bulb is filled with a mixture of argon gas and a small amount of nitrogen gas. Inside this gas mix, the tungsten filament, heated to €œincandescence€, slowly evaporates. Thinner portions of the filament get hotter and they evaporate more quickly. The evaporated tungsten deposits on the inside wall of the glass. Eventually, the filament evaporates so much tungsten that it breaks or €œburns out€.

A halogen bulb mimics the technology of incandescent except for two features. First, the filament and gas are contained in a quartz capsule resistant to high temperature. Second, a halogen gas such as bromine or iodine is added to the gas mix. With this gas mixture and higher filament temperatures, a chemical change occurs to the tungsten filament evaporation process. Instead of depositing the evaporated tungsten on the bulb glass, it is deposited instead back onto the filament itself. This process of filament regeneration is known as the halogen cycle. It can double the life of an incandescent bulb.

In short the primary difference between halogen and incandescent is the existence of the halogen cycle operating in a quartz capsule.

Dimming Halogen Lights and Bulb Life
That brings us back to dimming.

Dimming works the same way for both incandescent and halogen. Lower the filament temperature by modifying the voltage and get progressively less light output. The halogen cycle works only at high filament temperatures. If the halogen bulb is dimmed enough (down to only 20% less light), the filament temperature drops and the halogen cycle stops. At that point, it is operating in €œincandescent mode€ with evaporated tungsten being deposited on the capsule wall rather than back on the filament.

Tip: While dimming often lengthens the life of incandescent bulbs, it may shorten the life of halogen bulbs and cause darkening of the quartz capsule.

Thanks to: David Burtner

http://www.topbulb.com/blog/dimming-...halogen-cycle/

Key Points:

a) Halogen lamps are hybrid incandescent lamps. We knew that.
b) The "Halogen Cycle" redeposits tungsten on the filament as compared to a standard incandescent lamp that gradually evaporates the tungsten.
c) The halogen cycle stops at around 20% LESS LIGHT. That would be at/around 80% of full light. Whereupon the lamp behaves as a standard incandescent lamp.
d) With all this in mind, a halogen lamp may be dimmed with the same technology, means and methods as a standard incandescent lamp. Primary effects are on life-span. The failure modes are unchanged, eventually the filament fails.

It ain't nohow rocket science.

Anyone with even a passing experience with lighting already knows all this -as well as even the lowliest sweeper at any given electrical supply house.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA


Since dimming is usually done at assorted levels, the above effect has sod all effect on lamp life in the real world in most cases.


NT
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Default [Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp

On Wednesday, June 28, 2017 at 4:58:08 PM UTC-4, wrote:


Since dimming is usually done at assorted levels, the above effect has sod all effect on lamp life in the real world in most cases.


Suffice it that if a halogen lamp operates at 80% of nominal voltage, the halogen effect (tungsten vapor re-depositing on the filament) will not take place - however that reduction-in-voltage occurs.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
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Default [Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp

On Wednesday, June 28, 2017 at 3:04:32 PM UTC-4, wrote:
It is often assumed that incandescent and halogen light bulbs are completely different technologies. In fact, halogen is just a hybrid incandescent.

Both types of light bulbs use a tungsten filament. Both €œburn out€ when the filament breaks. Both use line and low voltage the same way.

Also, both incandescent and halogen bulbs can be dimmed. But heres the interesting twist: the more a halogen bulb is dimmed, the more it becomes an incandescent light bulb again.

How Incandescent and Halogen Differ
The standard incandescent bulb is filled with a mixture of argon gas and a small amount of nitrogen gas. Inside this gas mix, the tungsten filament, heated to €œincandescence€, slowly evaporates. Thinner portions of the filament get hotter and they evaporate more quickly. The evaporated tungsten deposits on the inside wall of the glass. Eventually, the filament evaporates so much tungsten that it breaks or €œburns out€.

A halogen bulb mimics the technology of incandescent except for two features. First, the filament and gas are contained in a quartz capsule resistant to high temperature. Second, a halogen gas such as bromine or iodine is added to the gas mix. With this gas mixture and higher filament temperatures, a chemical change occurs to the tungsten filament evaporation process. Instead of depositing the evaporated tungsten on the bulb glass, it is deposited instead back onto the filament itself. This process of filament regeneration is known as the halogen cycle. It can double the life of an incandescent bulb.

In short the primary difference between halogen and incandescent is the existence of the halogen cycle operating in a quartz capsule.

Dimming Halogen Lights and Bulb Life
That brings us back to dimming.

Dimming works the same way for both incandescent and halogen. Lower the filament temperature by modifying the voltage and get progressively less light output. The halogen cycle works only at high filament temperatures. If the halogen bulb is dimmed enough (down to only 20% less light), the filament temperature drops and the halogen cycle stops. At that point, it is operating in €œincandescent mode€ with evaporated tungsten being deposited on the capsule wall rather than back on the filament.

Tip: While dimming often lengthens the life of incandescent bulbs, it may shorten the life of halogen bulbs and cause darkening of the quartz capsule.

Thanks to: David Burtner

http://www.topbulb.com/blog/dimming-...halogen-cycle/

Key Points:

a) Halogen lamps are hybrid incandescent lamps. We knew that.
b) The "Halogen Cycle" redeposits tungsten on the filament as compared to a standard incandescent lamp that gradually evaporates the tungsten.
c) The halogen cycle stops at around 20% LESS LIGHT. That would be at/around 80% of full light. Whereupon the lamp behaves as a standard incandescent lamp.
d) With all this in mind, a halogen lamp may be dimmed with the same technology, means and methods as a standard incandescent lamp. Primary effects are on life-span. The failure modes are unchanged, eventually the filament fails.

It ain't nohow rocket science.

Anyone with even a passing experience with lighting already knows all this -as well as even the lowliest sweeper at any given electrical supply house.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA



One more thing: if you look at a halogen lamp crosseyed the filament will fail from the shock of your stare.. The filaments are not supported as they are in a standard incandescent lamp so they must not be subject to shock or vibration.

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Default [Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp

On Wednesday, 28 June 2017 22:05:39 UTC+1, wrote:
On Wednesday, June 28, 2017 at 4:58:08 PM UTC-4, tabby wrote:


Since dimming is usually done at assorted levels, the above effect has sod all effect on lamp life in the real world in most cases.


Suffice it that if a halogen lamp operates at 80% of nominal voltage, the


I thought you said 80% of light output, an entirely different point to 80% of voltage

halogen effect (tungsten vapor re-depositing on the filament) will not take place - however that reduction-in-voltage occurs.


At 80% voltage that would be an irrelevance. I presumed yuo know your filament lamp equations, now I'm not sure.


NT
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On Wednesday, 28 June 2017 22:07:13 UTC+1, John-Del wrote:

One more thing: if you look at a halogen lamp crosseyed the filament will fail from the shock of your stare.. The filaments are not supported as they are in a standard incandescent lamp so they must not be subject to shock or vibration.


Ah, that'll be why they've been so popular as car headlamps.
It's the thin mains 50w ones that don't like vibration.


NT


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Default [Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp

Ian Field the ****wit Bull**** Artist wrote:

---------------------------------------------


That may be your belief. IRL halogen stage lighting works just fine.

It wouldn't be any surprise .



** Any fact whatever would be HUGE surprise to a ****wit like you.


if stage lighting is over run for short periods


** Errr - dimmers only dim lamps down, not up.



They don't get any dimmer than you - some stage lighting used variacs that
went up to 110%.


** Long in the past when there were no halogen lamps involved.

You ****wit, lying POS.


..... Phil
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Default [Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp

The Peter Wieck bull**** artist wrote:

-------------------------------------------

( snil pil eof ********)

Thanks to: David Burtner

http://www.topbulb.com/blog/dimming-...halogen-cycle/


** Why on earth post that idiot article here???

It contains way more fiction than fact.


It ain't nohow rocket science.

Anyone with even a passing experience with lighting already knows all this -as well as even the lowliest sweeper at any given electrical supply house.


** ********.

How many halogen down lights are in domestic use round the world?

The vast majority are being used with dimmers.

Uses get several times more life by doing so.

Burtner is a bull****ting fool.

Like you.



..... Phil




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Default [Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp

On 2017/06/26 9:52 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
John Robertson wrote:

----------------------


When they are RUN at the rated voltage and power. If you dim them the
tungsten is deposited on the quartz and short of heating the quarts to
white hot (above poster's remarks) the tungsten is going to STAY on the
quartz, not recoating on the filament.

http://www.topbulb.com/blog/dimming-...halogen-cycle/


** That is merely one person's opinion, not backed up with evidence.

Wiki says differently :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haloge...on_performance

Stage lighting uses dimming all the time with halogen lamps and there is no blackening or short life experienced - the lamps run much longer as expected.

The claim that the "halogen cycle" puts metal back on the filament is true but it does not deposit it back where it came from so has little effect on lamp life.

Most halogen lamps are low voltage or high powered - so in both cases the filaments are thicker than typical non halogen examples.

Having a thick filament makes a halogen lamp last longer.



..... Phil


Well, I must confess I've never studied halogen bulbs on dimmers but
reading Lutron's site does not give any concerns from them about
halogens on dimmers in household use:

http://www.lutron.com/en-US/Educatio...ingBasics.aspx

I would like to assume that you are correct, Phil. One problem though -
your reference source says:

"With a reduced voltage the evaporation is lower and there may be too
much halogen, which can lead to abnormal failure."

and also:

"There are many situations where halogen lamps are dimmed successfully.
However, lamp life may not be extended as much as predicted. The life
span on dimming depends on lamp construction, the halogen additive used
and whether dimming is normally expected for this type."

So, perhaps theatre halogen bulbs are designed to be dimmed?

http://stagelightingprimer.com/slfs-light_sources.html

Perhaps not, they don't mind of the bulb lasts a shorter time, but want
the brightness in a compact source.

Also, are house halogen bulbs designed to be dimmed?

Philips bulbs seem to be (perhaps...):

http://www.philips.ca/c-m-li/halogen-light-bulbs

"Halogen lamps are designed to operate at very high temperatures to
ensure optimal performance. Dimming at above 60% of the rated volts can
be done. It is recommended to revert to full brightness for one minute
prior to switching the lamps off."

In other words do not run them above 60% of rated line voltage for
extended times without heating/running them at 100% for one minute prior
to turning off. I am SURE everyone will do that!

A double blind test would be nice to put this to bed.

John :-#)#
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John-Delusional wrote:

---------------------------



One more thing: if you look at a halogen lamp crosseyed the filament will
fail from the shock of your stare.. The filaments are not supported as
they are in a standard incandescent lamp so they must not be subject to
shock or vibration.



** See pics of 150W halogen tube lamps:

http://www.destinationlighting.com/i...13549~zoom.jpg


http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pro...eef67_1000.jpg

https://images.musicstore.de/images/...000456-000.jpg

How about a 1000W one:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...L._SL1500_.jpg




..... Phil




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Default [Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp

On Thursday, 29 June 2017 01:30:26 UTC+1, Phil Allison wrote:
Ian Field wrote:


That may be your belief. IRL halogen stage lighting works just fine.

snip

They don't get any dimmer than you - some stage lighting used variacs that
went up to 110%.


** Long in the past when there were no halogen lamps involved.


Yes. I'm not sure how tolerant halogens would be of +10%.

You ****wit, lying POS.


no, just short on knowledge.


NT


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Default [Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp

On Thursday, 29 June 2017 02:35:41 UTC+1, John Robertson wrote:

Well, I must confess I've never studied halogen bulbs on dimmers but
reading Lutron's site does not give any concerns from them about
halogens on dimmers in household use:

http://www.lutron.com/en-US/Educatio...ingBasics.aspx

I would like to assume that you are correct, Phil. One problem though -
your reference source says:

"With a reduced voltage the evaporation is lower and there may be too
much halogen, which can lead to abnormal failure."

and also:

"There are many situations where halogen lamps are dimmed successfully.
However, lamp life may not be extended as much as predicted. The life
span on dimming depends on lamp construction, the halogen additive used
and whether dimming is normally expected for this type."

So, perhaps theatre halogen bulbs are designed to be dimmed?

http://stagelightingprimer.com/slfs-light_sources.html

Perhaps not, they don't mind of the bulb lasts a shorter time, but want
the brightness in a compact source.

Also, are house halogen bulbs designed to be dimmed?

Philips bulbs seem to be (perhaps...):

http://www.philips.ca/c-m-li/halogen-light-bulbs

"Halogen lamps are designed to operate at very high temperatures to
ensure optimal performance. Dimming at above 60% of the rated volts can
be done. It is recommended to revert to full brightness for one minute
prior to switching the lamps off."

In other words do not run them above 60% of rated line voltage for
extended times without heating/running them at 100% for one minute prior
to turning off. I am SURE everyone will do that!

A double blind test would be nice to put this to bed.

John :-#)#


I fear you're taking a seller's waffle too seriously. Such things can be offloading liability and/or feigning expertise. The simple reality is halogens have been dimmed by all percentages in massive numbers and problems have not resulted. (I might feel like addressing the specific points raised another day.)


NT
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Default [Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp

On Thursday, 29 June 2017 02:36:55 UTC+1, Phil Allison wrote:
John-Delusional wrote:


One more thing: if you look at a halogen lamp crosseyed the filament will
fail from the shock of your stare.. The filaments are not supported as
they are in a standard incandescent lamp so they must not be subject to
shock or vibration.



** See pics of 150W halogen tube lamps:

http://www.destinationlighting.com/i...13549~zoom.jpg


http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pro...eef67_1000.jpg

https://images.musicstore.de/images/...000456-000.jpg

How about a 1000W one:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...L._SL1500_.jpg


.... Phil


Both types exist, with supports & without.


NT
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Default [Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp

John Robertson is a Google Monkey

-----------------------------------


So, perhaps theatre halogen bulbs are designed to be dimmed?


** Perhaps your fat arse is on fire ?

Ever think of that?



"Halogen lamps are designed to operate at very high temperatures to
ensure optimal performance. Dimming at above 60% of the rated volts can
be done. It is recommended to revert to full brightness for one minute
prior to switching the lamps off."


** Drivel, not real information.


In other words do not run them above 60% of rated line voltage for
extended times without heating/running them at 100% for one minute prior
to turning off. I am SURE everyone will do that!



** The false warning is about running halogen BELOW 60% rated voltage.

60% equates to about 10 to 15% of normal light output which is very dim.


BTW:

Ever see or use a halogen down light?

Standard practice is to run them off dimmers at any level you like.

Googling finds you every piece of misinformation that ever existed.



..... Phil
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wrote:

--------------------------


You ****wit, lying POS.

no, just short on knowledge.




** Ian Field is a prize ****wit, a congenital liar and a POS.

He makes facts up and uses false logic constantly.

He is clearly an autistic dim wit.

Just like thousands of other internet trolls.




...... Phil
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Default [Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp

On Thursday, 29 June 2017 03:23:20 UTC+1, Phil Allison wrote:
tabby wrote:


You ****wit, lying POS.

no, just short on knowledge.


** Ian Field is a prize ****wit, a congenital liar and a POS.

He makes facts up and uses false logic constantly.

He is clearly an autistic dim wit.

Just like thousands of other internet trolls.


That interpretation is partly why you get so angry over so little.


NT


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Default [Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp

On Wednesday, June 28, 2017 at 9:36:55 PM UTC-4, Phil Allison wrote:
John-Delusional wrote:

---------------------------



One more thing: if you look at a halogen lamp crosseyed the filament will
fail from the shock of your stare.. The filaments are not supported as
they are in a standard incandescent lamp so they must not be subject to
shock or vibration.



** See pics of 150W halogen tube lamps:

http://www.destinationlighting.com/i...13549~zoom.jpg


http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pro...eef67_1000.jpg

https://images.musicstore.de/images/...000456-000.jpg

How about a 1000W one:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...L._SL1500_.jpg




.... Phil



Here Phallusun, read this:

http://www.gelighting.com/LightingWe...m281-33642.pdf


Since this is not on Wikipedia (your go-to source of your "knowledge"), you might learn something about halogen and rough service. And when you're done reading it, print it out several dozen copies, roll them up and stick them firmly up you ass where it might do the rest of us some good. How many newsgroups do you have to pollute with your anal emanations before you realize that it's YOU.
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Default [Q] dimmer switch for halogen floor lamp

wrote:

----------------------------

Phil Allison wrote:
tabby wrote:


You ****wit, lying POS.

no, just short on knowledge.


** Ian Field is a prize ****wit, a congenital liar and a POS.

He makes facts up and uses false logic constantly.

He is clearly an autistic dim wit.

Just like thousands of other internet trolls.


That interpretation ...



** It ain't no "interpretation" - pal.

Field is a public menace on usenet and elsewhere too, I bet.

FYI:

I do not get angry, that is YOUR misinterpretation.

But I reserve the RIGHT to publicly out and thoroughly condemn
bull**** artists and trolls.

Seems YOU have trouble even identifying them.



..... Phil

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John-Delusional ****wit wrote:

---------------------------------




One more thing: if you look at a halogen lamp crosseyed the filament will
fail from the shock of your stare.. The filaments are not supported as
they are in a standard incandescent lamp so they must not be subject to
shock or vibration.



** See pics of 150W halogen tube lamps:

http://www.destinationlighting.com/i...13549~zoom.jpg


http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pro...eef67_1000.jpg

https://images.musicstore.de/images/...000456-000.jpg

How about a 1000W one:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...L._SL1500_.jpg



http://www.gelighting.com/LightingWe...m281-33642.pdf



** You can see the links to several pics that I posted ?

All of them show halogen tube lamps with multiple filament supports.

They are real pics published by folk who make and sell the lamps.

You can see them ??



Wot a ****ing MORON.


...... Phil
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Phil Allison wrote:

----------------------


John-Delusional wrote:

---------------------------



One more thing: if you look at a halogen lamp crosseyed the filament will
fail from the shock of your stare.. The filaments are not supported as
they are in a standard incandescent lamp so they must not be subject to
shock or vibration.



** See pics of 150W halogen tube lamps:

http://www.destinationlighting.com/i...13549~zoom.jpg


http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pro...eef67_1000.jpg

https://images.musicstore.de/images/...000456-000.jpg

How about a 1000W one:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...L._SL1500_.jpg



** Here is a Sylvania 42W halogen replacement for a standard GLS bulb:

https://media.tradezone.com.au/image...0/18579/30.jpg

Note how the filament passes over a glass support bridge at the top of the small envelope. Most of the filament is coiled but the section over the bridge is not.


..... Phil

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On 2017/06/28 6:58 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
John Robertson is a Google Monkey

-----------------------------------


So, perhaps theatre halogen bulbs are designed to be dimmed?


** Perhaps your fat arse is on fire ?

Ever think of that?


Not sure what that has to do with the question raised by your source
(wikipedia) where the point was raised that theatre lighting had their
own expectations about the use of halogen bulbs.




"Halogen lamps are designed to operate at very high temperatures to
ensure optimal performance. Dimming at above 60% of the rated volts can
be done. It is recommended to revert to full brightness for one minute
prior to switching the lamps off."


** Drivel, not real information.


Excuse me Phil, but I was quoting from YOUR wikipedia reference source,
not mine.


In other words do not run them above 60% of rated line voltage for
extended times without heating/running them at 100% for one minute prior
to turning off. I am SURE everyone will do that!



** The false warning is about running halogen BELOW 60% rated voltage.


Not the same thing, they are using the word above to mean above 60% of
rated voltage, not below 60% rated voltage. At least that was how I read
your source - the wikipedia article quoted by you in previous email.
Which I read.


60% equates to about 10 to 15% of normal light output which is very dim.


BTW:

Ever see or use a halogen down light?

Standard practice is to run them off dimmers at any level you like.


Of course, people will do whatever they like - that was not the
question. The original question was was it a good idea to run halogen
lights on dimmers and would it adversely affect their rated life span.


Googling finds you every piece of misinformation that ever existed.

..... Phil


You may be an excellent designer of electronics, but are you a halogen
lighting expert too? Or are you (like me) just putting forward opinion
based on personal research and/or anecdotal experiences? This is
supposed to be a learning tool for all concerned after all, is it not?

John
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