My friend gave me an digital VOM, and DC voltages in the 2 volt range
read 14% high.

Is there any way to adjust this?

Or, is there ever a way to adjust this?

No schematic is available, I'm pretty sure but its guts look like most
of them. .

micky wrote:

My friend gave me an digital VOM, and DC voltages in the 2 volt range
read 14% high.



** So all the other ranges are OK ?

If so, it sounds like manufacturing error.



..... Phil

On Thursday, February 9, 2017 at 11:35:54 PM UTC-5, micky wrote:
My friend gave me an digital VOM, and DC voltages in the 2 volt range
read 14% high.

Is there any way to adjust this?

Or, is there ever a way to adjust this?

No schematic is available, I'm pretty sure but its guts look like most
of them. .

Some few types have an internal adjustment process. Short the leads, push a sequence of buttons, it zeros out for ohms. For DCV, it will require a battery of known voltage within the range required.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

The Peter ****wit Wieck Troll spewed:



Is there any way to adjust this?

Or, is there ever a way to adjust this?

No schematic is available, I'm pretty sure but its guts look like most
of them. .

Some few types have an internal adjustment process.



** **** off, you retarded pile of bat manure.

No-one needs to see your brain dead, autistic crap.



..... Phil

On Friday, February 10, 2017 at 7:43:18 AM UTC-5, Phil Allison wrote:

No-one needs to see your brain dead, autistic crap.



.... Phil


Off your meds again?

Fluke 73III True RMS meter. Set to ohms. Cross leads. Hold Down Yellow (range) Button. Meter adjusts to 0 ohms. Proceed from there. I have been using this meter for almost 20 years now, and go through this when either switching leads or changing the battery, or if it has been sitting for a while.

I guess quality equipment (along with quality meds) is not available in your cave?

On Thu, 09 Feb 2017 23:35:45 -0500, micky
wrote:

My friend gave me an digital VOM, and DC voltages in the 2 volt range
read 14% high.

Is there any way to adjust this?

Or, is there ever a way to adjust this?

It seems to me, the cheaper it is, the higher the chance of finding a
calibration pot inside.

But the calibration is only for the voltage reference, so, as Phil
comments, if only one range is off, then it is not a calibration
problem.
--
RoRo

On Friday, February 10, 2017 at 2:48:59 PM UTC-5, Robert Roland wrote:
On Thu, 09 Feb 2017 23:35:45 -0500, micky
wrote:

My friend gave me an digital VOM, and DC voltages in the 2 volt range
read 14% high.

Is there any way to adjust this?

Or, is there ever a way to adjust this?

It seems to me, the cheaper it is, the higher the chance of finding a
calibration pot inside.

But the calibration is only for the voltage reference, so, as Phil
comments, if only one range is off, then it is not a calibration
problem.
--
RoRo

Or, the rest of the range is OK, with the error only at the lowest end of the scale (and how Fluke does it in my case for Volts) as noted by the OP. If measuring in dozens or hundreds of volts. a 0.5 V error ain't much. 0-2 V, quite a bit. About anyone can make a meter that is +/-1% at 500V. Not so many at 2% at 2V.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

"It seems to me, the cheaper it is, the higher the chance of finding a
calibration pot inside."

Your theory is blown out of the water, sorry. Those $0.000 ones from Harbor Freight have no pot.

"But the calibration is only for the voltage reference, so, as Phil
comments, if only one range is off, then it is not a calibration
problem.
--
RoRo "

Kinda is and kinda ain't. Seriously, I only recently learned how these things work and truthfully I could not design a worse circuit. Unfortunately I can't seem to design a better one either so I guess I understand why they did it the way they did it.

However one thing is common to almost all voltmeters. The lowest voltage range IS the reference and all the others are divided down by a precision resistive divider. therefore when that low range is off, all ranges should be off by the same amount, if it is indeed in the main calibration.

The only time I have had the lower ranges bad was in a Fluke. That unit had batteries that had leaked onto the PC board so it is logical to assume that there was a leakage path and that was causing the error. That unit would zero with the probes crossed, but uncrossing them would result in a reading of a couple of volts. That was not resolved at the 200 volt range of course.

The resolution must be considered, for example if you have a fifty volt supply and this thing reads 50.17 volts and every other meter you have reads 49.91, that is significant and needs to be noted. It is the same problem, but partly masked by the resistive divider.

Instrumentation is a PITA, which is why alot of techs will not touch it. Back in the TV days many would just send meters and scopes in, not even take the cover off. I learned some lessons on it myself, like on Tek scopes. When they say 50 volts it is not like a TV where anything between 35 and 75 will be fine, it means 50 volts within a volt. Maybe even tighter than that.

Anyway, this PITA better be worth it, take and see if you are just not noticing the error on the higher ranges. It is off 14 on the low range, go up a range, is it off 1.4 % ? Go up another range, is it off 0.14 % ? Now for that you might have to get a really high end other meter. Personally I can borrow a high end Fluke that will do it and it has been check every way to Sunday and back. I mean money was spent.

We did have some fun restoring a few old time meters, one of them is the job from HP that had four light bulbs in it. The next step is electrometers, like Keithley etc. Maybe. I still have yet to get used to these junk ass LCD scopes, preferring my CRO always.

Bottom line though, when a meter gets that kind of problem it is probably time to ditch the bitch. It is very unlikely to be an easy fix no matter what.

Fess up with the brand and model. If it is an old nixie tube job it is a novelty and worth fixing maybe, even that old B & K job, LED and with the zero control you set to make the "-" blink on and off. I used to have one of those and it was not a bad meter, I am still wondering what happened to it. Never sell a house folks, let me tell you. You lose more stuff than you ever knew you had and then spend the next twenty years wondering where this and that went. If you sell a house, just go get a lobotomy, you'll be much happier.

Bottom line, when it comes to DVMs, only the bestest and bounciest are really worth fixing. Some of the ones in the middle are worth sending to the factory if you got a warranty. Fewer are worth paying their out of warranty rates. but they do have the special equipment to fix and calibrate them, but really most of it is just change the main board and check the calibration. If it flies, ship it.

Good luck, but really it sounds to me like you simply need a new meter. Maybe this one could monitor line voltage or whatever, but that is about it.

In article ,
says...

"It seems to me, the cheaper it is, the higher the chance of finding a
calibration pot inside."

Your theory is blown out of the water, sorry. Those $0.000 ones from Harbor Freight have no pot.


I hae opened up 3 of the 'free'or about $ 6 if just bought ones and they
all have an adjustment pot. They all seem to be close enough compaired
to my Fluke that I did not do any adjustment to that pot.

Have you actully opened up any ?

The Peter Wieck ****wit Troll spewed

No-one needs to see your brain dead, autistic crap.



.... Phil


Off your meds again?


** **** off, you retarded pile of bat manure.

No-one needs to see your brain dead, autistic crap.


Fluke 73III True RMS meter. Set to ohms. Cross leads. Hold Down Yellow (range) Button. Meter adjusts to 0 ohms.


** ROTFL - wot brain dead crap.


** **** off, you retarded pile of bat manure.

No-one needs to see your brain dead, autistic crap.



..... Phil


Proceed from there. I have been using this meter for almost 20 years now, and go through this when either switching leads or changing the battery, or if it has been sitting for a while.

I guess quality equipment (along with quality meds) is not available in your cave?

Robert Roland wrote:



But the calibration is only for the voltage reference, so, as Phil
comments, if only one range is off, then it is not a calibration
problem.


** Of course not, have to be brain dead to think that.



..... Phil

The Peter Wieck ****wit Troll spewed:




Or, the rest of the range is OK, with the error only at the lowest end of the scale ....


** Complete CRAP !!!

**** off, you retarded pile of bat manure.

No-one needs to see your brain dead, autistic crap.



..... Phil

In sci.electronics.repair, on Thu, 9 Feb 2017 21:04:57 -0800 (PST), Phil
Allison wrote:

micky wrote:

My friend gave me an digital VOM, and DC voltages in the 2 volt range
read 14% high.



** So all the other ranges are OK ?

I checked since I first posted and the 20 and 200 volt DC scales have
the same problem. They give the same reading of 1.7 on a AA battery, a
battery that is probably dead since it's 3 years old and the camera two
of them are in was dead, and isn't now that I replaced the batteries.

And the AC volts is good,
I don't have a handy way to messure milliamps
The continuity buzzer is dead (and I checked both leads).
And none of the resistance scales work.

So it's probably not worth keeping a battery in it with ohms scales, but
I am still interested in calibration so I'm glad I asked.

The story is more complicated than it was yesterday. Yesterday I
replaced some other battery and measured the old one and it was 1.4.
then I measured the two from yesterday and instead of 1.74, it said
0.6!!
But later today I measured again and it was up to 1.7!!! A dirty
pot?

Hmmm.

Hmmm.

Okay, my final paragraph today: I figured that out, but only by
fildding with it. How many of you figured it out from a distance?
(It's another serious problem.)


If so, it sounds like manufacturing error.

It may have worked well at one time. Actually my friend died and this
was among his things. So eEven though I have other, better, and similar
meters, I'm reluctant to throw it out.

The fuse had been blown and was missing, so he took it apart. The shine
is off a tiny bit of circuit board by the fuse, so it was a big blowout.
And there are two holes in the PCB with nothing in them right near the
burned spot, but the first two times I looked there, I thought they were
just extra holes, since there is no evidence of a part, and I though
there was no copper trace. There were parts in the way so I couldn't
see everything.

But now I see that there is a trace headed in the direction of each
hole. I guess the blowout took the part and part of the traces with it,
that there was nothing holding the part to the PCB but the solder
attachment to the traces. That's why the holes are so empty and clean.

With this added knowledge, I'll look it up again. (I looked it up
yesterday and found how big the fuse should be.)

Just $15 at Amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/Velleman-DVM8.../dp/B00068U24A
http://www.vellemanusa.com/products/...=enu&id=350297

And manualslib.com has the manual but it's only 9 pages and has no
schematic.

The missing part seems to be connected to the ground on one side and one
pin of an 8-pin IC at the other. I suppose it's either a cap or
resistor. Since the ohms scales don't work, is it reasonable to guess
it's a resistor???

I have a resistor-substitution box, bought at a hamfest and only used
once. Wait, that time I decided it was easier to use a pot. I could do
that now too.

Unless one of you knows what the part would be, or where to get a
schematic for a Vellaman DVM850BL

the only other idea is to buy a second one and see what part is in that
spot. Then I could give away the new one.

.... Phil

"micky" wrote in message
...
My friend gave me an digital VOM, and DC voltages in the 2 volt range
read 14% high.

So give it back to him

On Fri, 10 Feb 2017 12:53:43 -0800 (PST), wrote:

"It seems to me, the cheaper it is, the higher the chance of finding a
calibration pot inside."

Your theory is blown out of the water, sorry. Those $0.000 ones from Harbor Freight have no pot.

You did not read what I wrote, did you?

I spoke of chance, and you refute my claim based on one single sample?

Not exactly solid statistics.
--
RoRo

On 2017/02/09 8:35 PM, micky wrote:
My friend gave me an digital VOM, and DC voltages in the 2 volt range
read 14% high.

Is there any way to adjust this?

Or, is there ever a way to adjust this?

No schematic is available, I'm pretty sure but its guts look like most
of them. .



Did you try a new battery in the meter? Weak batteries will give odd
readings...

John :-#)#

--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
(604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

"I hae opened up 3 of the 'free'or about $ 6 if just bought ones and they
all have an adjustment pot. They all seem to be close enough compaired
to my Fluke that I did not do any adjustment to that pot.

Have you actully opened up any ? "

About three of them, no pots.

Of course that does not mean they're all the same, I have encountered two distinct types at least, one has a power switch and the other simply has an "off" position on the range switch. (which I do not prefer)

Perhaps they were well hidden. At any rate, one pot for the whole thing would adjust all the ranges, so if only certain ranges are off then something else is wrong.

There are probably many different versions of these things. At work I stumbled across a Craftsman meter which is about the spitting image of one of these, but then we know Sears stuff is built by the lowest bidder. However I haven't taken that one apart, it works, I will see the inside when the battery dies I guess. It could be totally different but really I do not see the reason why. When they work right they seem to really work right, they agree with my decent Fluke and they agree with my buddy's even better Fluke.

I had one that would not zero on any range, they said don't even bother to send it back, they just sent a new one. Throwaway test equipment, ever thought you'd see it ?

But then a $300 guitar can be throwaway as well, really. My buddy bought an Ibanez acoustic with the electronic pickups. Sounded great actually, like a miced guitar and not much feedback. But the electronics quite. He calls and they gave him a full refund and said not to even bother sending it back. I bought it thinking maybe I would fix the pickup but never got to it, so I have me a decent acoustic. And that prick made $100 off of me. It does play really well though. He should have sold it to me for $50 though. But really, I started taking that guitar apart and the way they put the pickup in pretty much precluded any type of repairs. I swear, it should be illegal for electronics manufacturers to be in possession of any type of glue, and I mean death by slow torture for thee board of directors.

"I spoke of chance, and you refute my claim based on one single sample? "

No, several. Unless the pot is well hidden somewhere.

I have changed the batteries in a few, and one I wanted to somehow revamp and make it read like a benchtop DVM but once I saw the ubiquitous zebra strip I figured the chances of that were slim and none and slim has a bullethole in his head.

Thing about these tings is it is almost not worth changing the battery, depending on where you go it might cost you more than the whole meter.

But anyway, using this Google groups is getting to be a drag, no tree view so you have a hard time seeinf where your post goes, as in who it appears you are responding to. And now it doesn't like my old Firefox so I am in IE again. I used to have Thunderbird set up opn this thing but lost it somehow due to a system restore or something. I might just shoot the thing and be done with it.

In article ,
says...


I had one that would not zero on any range, they said don't even bother to send it back, they just sent a new one. Throwaway test equipment, ever thought you'd see it ?

But then a $300 guitar can be throwaway as well, really. My buddy bought an Ibanez acoustic with the electronic pickups. Sounded great actually, like a miced guitar and not much feedback. But the electronics quite. He calls and they gave him a full refund and said not to even bother sending it back. I bought it thinking maybe I would fix the pickup but never got to it, so I have me a decent acoustic. And that
prick made $100 off of me. It does play really well though. He should have sold it to me for $50 though. But really, I started taking that guitar apart and the way they put the pickup in pretty much precluded any type of repairs. I swear, it should be illegal for electronics manufacturers to be in possession of any type of glue, and I mean death by slow torture for thee board of directors.


Most anything under $ 500 is a throw away now unless you can fix it
yourself. With companies charging $ 50 to $ 100 per hour labor, the
cost to ship it back, especially if it is big or heavy, all tht ammounts
up fast. Sort of like the socket sets from 40 years ago with the
lifetime warrenty. The whole set was about $ 5. If you sent the broken
part back and $ 4.50 for retrun postage and handling, they would send
you a replacement for the broken part.

"Most anything under $ 500 is a throw away now unless you can fix it
yourself."

That is more a socioeconomic issue almost. how did it get that way ?

"With companies charging $ 50 to $ 100 per hour labor,"

In the old days I had a TV shop, the rent for 3,500 square feet was $350 IIRC, the elctric bill was low, and beer was like two bucks a sixpack. Gas was cheap, food was cheap.

"the
cost to ship it back, especially if it is big or heavy, all tht ammounts "

Have you tried to drive lately ? Back then we bought a hundred dollar car, threw whatever plates we had on it and just drove. there were no problems because we did not hit the other cars. Never even heard of seat belts either..


"up fast. Sort of like the socket sets from 40 years ago with the
lifetime warrenty. The whole set was about $ 5. If you sent the broken
part back and $ 4.50 for retrun postage and handling, they would send
you a replacement for the broken part. "


Sears started this **** where if your ratchet screwed up they handed you a kit to fix it. Do that to me and I will hand it back and say, well ? You fix it, it is not my job. Having known someone who worked there, actually they do it for you. If the customer asks anything just fix it for him, when you first go to work there it is in your training.

That is actuially alright but I stil don't buy their ****. I wanted wrenches that were Xrayed, not made so cheaply you can replace then fifty times and still show a profit on the books. When I am underneath a car with the tranny on my chest I need that tool not to break, not to have to drive (my transmissionless car) 25 ****ing miles to see if your store is open to get a replacement Chinese piece of **** I oculd have gotten for a tenth of the price over at Harbor Freight.

Rant over.

In article ,
says...



In the old days I had a TV shop, the rent for 3,500 square feet was
$350 IIRC, the elctric bill was low, and beer was like two bucks a
sixpack. Gas was cheap, food was cheap.


I was born in 1950 and remember much from those days. I would not want
to go back . Things were inexpensive that people had to have, other
things not so much.

YOU should remember the TV sets. Many homes had a black and white, but
few color sets. Now many have one in most of the bed rooms and a very
large one in the main room. Cars always needed something done to it.
now a oil change every 5000 miles is about all to 50,000 or 100,000
miles. Many only had one car and as you said it was almost a junker.
Most now have a car for almost every driver in the family and no junkers
either. Cloths dryers were not in many homes to around the late 60's.
Homes had a telephone and some were even on party lines. Now many
people have their own cell phone.

Only thing I relly can think of back in the good old days that was
better was there was very little crime.

On Monday, February 13, 2017 at 10:37:04 AM UTC-5, Ralph Mowery wrote:

Only thing I relly can think of back in the good old days that was
better was there was very little crime.

Actually not. Today, reporting crime is ubiquitous. Little is or can be covered up. Back in the day, pederasty, pedophilia, rape, abduction, domestic violence, and much much more was simply covered up, not reported or entirely ignored.

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

Some of the statistics that would be comparable - as often reported 'then' as 'now' are actually down significantly. Keep in mind that everything that happened in the Clergy scandals would, today, be classified as Forcible Rape. Keep in mind that not so long ago, a husband could legally force his wife to have sex. Today, that is forcible rape. And so on, and so forth.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...us-since-1950/

We did not have CNN, Fox, and "if it bleeds it leads" was not the mantra of every news organization worldwide. We had the New York Daily News for the bleeders - but pretty much the nasty stuff was carefully brushed under the rug. Walter Cronkite and Huntley-Brinkley were the norm.

Peter Wieck

"I was born in 1950 and remember much from those days. I would not want
to go back . Things were inexpensive that people had to have, other
things not so much. "

Well 1960 here, but I WOULD go back. Of course you can't. One really bad thing was Nam, if they drafted me I would be Canadian. Don't get me wrong, bunch of assholes attack this country I will be right there, but don't gimme this **** we gotta go tear up someone else's country because France did this and China did that.

People used to pay cash or a new car, now they have to put gasoline on a credit card. The banks practically own the whole country. People did only have one car, but if the synchros in third gear were not quite up to snuff or some other overdrive solenoid thingie in the tranny was bad back then you just drove it. Now it throws a code and you can't get license plates until you put $2,000 into a car that is in good enough working order to do what it needs to do. If you had a little fender bender you drove a dented car until you got it fixed, now the air bags deploy and it won't run. I am no big fan of seat belts either, we used to watch where we're going. Now they got cars that practically drive themselves. I think that is bad, because when you get people used to this they won't know what to do in a real car where you have to actually put your foot on the brake pedal. Same with those table saws that stop the blade in a microsecond if skin is detected so it won't cut anyone. Let people get used to that and then a real table saw will cut their hand off. but then the government will mandate this safety feature and we all have to buy the retrofit, made in China of course, to bring our old trusty table saws up to "code". And speaking of code, teflon tape is garbage and actually is more likely to cause a leak than the old pipe dope, I use pipe dope. You want teflon garbager tape in there you put it in. Another case of replacing something that worked with what does not.

"YOU should remember the TV sets. "

I certainly do. We had like five channels and actually had a debate about what to watch. Now we got five hundred channels and there is nothing on. They can't write a script, the camera work looks like it was done by a six year old and there are so many special effects you don't even know if the TV is working right or not. Yes I will goo back and watch Gunsmoke and the original Star Trek and Get Smart and whatever. Actually with the exception of Star Trek that is pretty uch what I go for on like Hulu or whatever when I get in the mood for TV, not this bull**** they have today. Used to catch a few old Star Treks but CBS has decided to not give them up, most likely because they can't write anything worthwhile. The new Star Trek guy likes lens flares, which any real photogragher tries to avoid, and there is practically no plot. In fact that is common now and they are turning to "reality" type shows because of it. Even the murder mysteries on are based on true stories, look at "Homicide Hunter", all cases of this one detective over about forty years in Colorado investigating murders. And the new music reflects the lack of talent as well.

In the old days a local rock and roll band could mail a tape in to a local radio station and the DJ would play it and people got discovered. This happened alot in Cleveland here. Not the only place though, I think it was NYC where the guy pretty much made Buddy Holly a household word. But now to get into the biz you need to know someone, and they bitch and moan that they aren't amking money. And they blame the profileration of P2P and other means of downloading as the source of their financial downturn but I am here to tell you the real reason is that they are putting out a junk product. Same with movies, all effects, no plot.

Yes, I would go back.

"Many only had one car and as you said it was almost a junker. "

What, a junker because it doesn't get XM radio ? This new junk can kiss my ass. I want a 1967 Chevy. Simplicity. What's more, that one "junker" got the sole (that means one) wage earner to work, and the Wife to the grocery store on Saturday.

"Homes had a telephone and some were even on party lines. Now many
people have their own cell phone. "

Yeah, and when I owned my own house and had my druthers I made people leave those damn phones out in their car if they wanted to visit me. I turn mine off quite a bit. I pay for it, it is my prerogative to answer it or not. It is not a pager and I am not on call. As far as I am concerned, I might just get rid of it but I am older now and could get stranded somewhere or something. If you call my lanmdline and there is no answer (and no answering macjhoine either) that means I am not home and you have to call back. I LIKED IT THAT WAY. However I do like either caller ID or the old answering machine that allowed you to screen calls.

"Only thing I relly can think of back in the good old days that was
better was there was very little crime. "

There was less crime but it was not non-existent. Much was not reported like whoever said in another post here. Rapes were the worst. Woman got raped and her brothers would drive her 2,000 miles away to give the kid up for adoption, as was the case with all out of wedlock kids back then. For better or worse that is how it was. Though from what I have seen, to raise a kid right you need both a male and female influence, they sort of balance each other somehow.

One of the reasons there was less crime was the armed Citizen, really. They never really reported much on how much crime really is stopped by bystanders who are armed. One case at a "Waffle House" a few years ago, two thugs tried to pull an armed robbery, a custoer shot and killed one of them and the other fled, only to get caught a short time later. The dead thug's cousin got up on TV to claim we need more strict gun laws as hjer cousin, who spent his life trying to steal from others, migth still be alive.

Well I have to agree, because if the guy who shot her piece of **** cousin was train better he might have been able to kill both thugs. And I will look their Mother straight in the eye and say "Next time you drop a litter, teach them some respect".

I remember people who got out of prison saying "Damn, I can't even begin to name these new cars". That is your biggest concern ? But then back then they did not require a full background check to flip burgers.

And now, you want to talk Snowden and Assange ? The US government committed an act of war against an ally to get Assange who has never set foot on US soil. I would go back to when there was a little bit of respect. But then there wasn't. the escapades of Smedley Butler were back in the early 1900s and made enemies of most South American cointries. That is why you get aspartame of HFCS in youir food and drinks instead of regular sugar, which is not as damaging to your health. Mexicans enjoy real sugar because they did not try to replace damn near every government down there. Look at the labels if you don't believe me.

A few things went right, we shed alot of our bigotry. We became more tolerant of those who are different. Of course now with Trump's win at the election the liberals are turning into animals, having riots and all that ****, but you have to realize that they see that as their meal ticket being cut off. Conservatives build things, liberals sell them.

Enough for now.

"Actually not. Today, reporting crime is ubiquitous. "

I remember they did bust NYC for underrepoting crime. Guess it was bad for real estate values.

On Monday, February 13, 2017 at 3:05:42 PM UTC-5, wrote:

You are NOT entitled to your opinion. You ARE entitled to your informed opinion. NO ONE is entitled to be ignorant.

For the record, all your glib little bits and phrases are kinda-sorta stupid and hollow when viewed - I am a born-again liberal who has built a great many things, from aircraft and nuclear parts carrying my signature that kept *you* alive, to structural designs for historic renovations that are now 'in the book' and included in NFPA, UL, BOMA, UBC and other standards and codes, and much more - things that actually affect lives. What have you done?

A conservative was once defined as someone with something to conserve.
The alternate definition is A liberal who has been mugged.

But, it has become clear to me that conservatives, in essence, are individuals deadly fearful of change at any level that *might* threaten their lives..

tRump is anything but a conservative. tRump is an opportunist looking after himself, no more. He wears the conservative mask as it suits his purpose.

The general levels of ignorance demonstrated by conservatives is pretty wretched, frightening and nauseating, all at once. Now, here is a rant I have used in the past.

This country has a long and illustrious history of electing corrupt, ignorant, stupid or simply inept politicians to high office, starting all the way back with Ulysses S. Grant, Warren Harding, Herbert Hoover, Richard Nixon, Jimmy Carter, G.W. Bush, to name just a few. Donald Trump is at home in that crowd at any of several levels.

We get exactly the government we deserve, as we vote them in time after time after time, and every part and piece of our government devolves back to those elected "representatives" as by deliberate choice or by neglect, they permit all those parts and pieces to continue.

Keep in mind that the Average American:

Does not have a college education, including an Associate Degree (60%).
Does not have a passport (64%).
Speaks one language €“ badly (74%).
Has never traveled voluntarily more than 200 miles from his/her birthplace (57%).
Has never visited a foreign country, not even Mexico or Canada (71%).
Cannot name the Speaker of the House, even today (82%)
Cannot name the three branches of government (64%)
Cannot read at a college level (83%)
Cannot read for content (54%).
60% of American Households do not buy any book in a year.
Does not believe in Evolution (42% creationism, 32% evolution, 26% no opinion).
Only 71.2% of eligible voters are registered.
Only 57.9% of registered voters voted in 2012.
Meaning that the average American eligible to vote does not vote (only 41.5% net). Not much changed in early statistics for 2016, although the change was to greater participation (48%). The Average American still does not vote.

And you think that our government is anything other than exactly what we deserve, doing exactly what we should expect it to do based on what we tell it (and allow) it to do?

This has not one damned thing to do with party, democrat, republican, libertarian, communist, green, whatever. It has to do with massive, systemic and deliberate neglect, and industrial-grade stupidity mixed equally with mil.Spec. ignorance.

Like some few Americans, I have lived and worked as a civilian in another culture vastly different from here - and I have seen how Americans are perceived in other parts of the world. You might be surprised how easily it is for other cultures to separate Americans (whom they largely respect and admire) from American Culture (continuous amazement, mixed with a varying amounts of jealousy and horror) and the American Government (poorly understood, largely disliked - much as here). Would that Americans had the same ability to separate the individual and sub-group from the various other parts and pieces of the entirety in other cultures and regions.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

On 02/13/2017 10:10 PM, wrote:
On Monday, February 13, 2017 at 3:05:42 PM UTC-5, wrote:


Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA


Laughable Ill-Informed Blaming Entitled Race-Bating Anti-Capitalist
Loudmouth

You do have a point.

However, if you comb your hair *JUST* right, perhaps no one will notice.

On 02/24/2017 09:12 PM, wrote:
You do have a point.

However, if you comb your hair *JUST* right, perhaps no one will notice.

WHAT?? I CAN'T HEAR YOU. CAN YOU SPEAK UP? IT'S HARD TO HEAR YOU OVER
THE SOUND OF ALL THESE CRYING LIBERALS.

On Friday, February 10, 2017 at 8:36:53 PM UTC-5, micky wrote:
In sci.electronics.repair, on Thu, 9 Feb 2017 21:04:57 -0800 (PST), Phil
Allison wrote:

Hmmm.

Okay, my final paragraph today: I figured that out, but only by
fildding with it. How many of you figured it out from a distance?
(It's another serious problem.)

If so, it sounds like manufacturing error.

It may have worked well at one time. Actually my friend died and this
was among his things. So eEven though I have other, better, and similar
meters, I'm reluctant to throw it out.

That's understandable. Second-hand stuff doesn't always tell you its history. Sometimes you need meters to be accurate. Sometimes not, I guess.

"For the record, all your glib little bits and phrases are kinda-sorta stupid and hollow when viewed - I am a born-again liberal who has built a great many things, from aircraft and nuclear parts carrying my signature that kept *you* alive, to structural designs for historic renovations that are now 'in the book' and included in NFPA, UL, BOMA, UBC and other standards and codes, and much more - things that actually affect lives. What have you done? "

Well apparently you have done more. I'll bet that when you did these things you had a more conservative view, that is that you wouyld like to keep your earnings and not have them taken awaty and given to people who hate you, foir your freedom abnd democracy, ostensibly.

But you know, that is true. The People of Iran hate our freedom and ddemocracy because we deposed their President. The People of Venezuela love us for pretty much the same reason, and in fact most of South America does and that is why we pay more for sugar and they have to put HFCS and aspartame in the foood here, which are both more harmful.

And when you spout about "things that have actually affect lives" what that means is "That have actually affected deaths".

"We get exactly the government we deserve, as we vote them in time after time after time, and every part and piece of our government devolves back to those elected "representatives" as by deliberate choice or by neglect, they permit all those parts and pieces to continue. "

You seem to miss the point there. Peoploe got out and voted for Trump, and that was mainly to tell the liberals that we no longer want our money stolen and given to people who hate us.

On Sunday, February 26, 2017 at 1:11:05 PM UTC-5, wrote:
"For the record, all your glib little bits and phrases are kinda-sorta stupid and hollow when viewed - I am a born-again liberal who has built a great many things, from aircraft and nuclear parts carrying my signature that kept *you* alive, to structural designs for historic renovations that are now 'in the book' and included in NFPA, UL, BOMA, UBC and other standards and codes, and much more - things that actually affect lives. What have you done? "

Well apparently you have done more. I'll bet that when you did these things you had a more conservative view, that is that you wouyld like to keep your earnings and not have them taken awaty and given to people who hate you, foir your freedom abnd democracy, ostensibly.

But you know, that is true. The People of Iran hate our freedom and ddemocracy because we deposed their President. The People of Venezuela love us for pretty much the same reason, and in fact most of South America does and that is why we pay more for sugar and they have to put HFCS and aspartame in the foood here, which are both more harmful.

And when you spout about "things that have actually affect lives" what that means is "That have actually affected deaths".

"We get exactly the government we deserve, as we vote them in time after time after time, and every part and piece of our government devolves back to those elected "representatives" as by deliberate choice or by neglect, they permit all those parts and pieces to continue. "

You seem to miss the point there. Peoploe got out and voted for Trump, and that was mainly to tell the liberals that we no longer want our money stolen and given to people who hate us.

I do admit that as time has gone on, my views have become a bit more liberal. But as in my entire life I have never missed a meal except by choice, nor slept anywhere except by choice, I never been too cold or too hot, except by choice, and barring the apocalypse it will be so for the rest of my natural life, and likely, that of my children's children should the world last so long (dubious) - I duly recognize the level of privilege I have enjoyed.. And as I have observed at first hand poverty that one typically sees only in begging mail from NGOs I also realize how fragile my position actually is.

For us as Western North Americans to live as we do, 70% of the world *MUST* live as they do. As, there is neither the energy, food, water or air enough to go around. And if that 70% ever gets smart enough (and they are working on it) or powerful enough (when we stop buying their leaders), or angry enough (and they are working on that as well), if we continue as we seem to be going along an isolationist track - we will pretty much instantly cease to live as we do without military intervention.

China needs us for but only so long - as long as we remain a reliable market for their goods and services, and for as long as our technology remains significantly better than theirs and our productivity remains sufficiently better and broader than theirs. Similarly, every other nation on this planet that sells us any of the many things we do not make for ourselves and cannot make for ourselves. LCD screens being one single example.

But when we cease to be reliable, they will quickly understand that we are _ONLY_5% of the population - and quite easily replaced at every level but arable land. And, we are now again starting to work on eliminating that advantage as well.

We need to be faster, smarter, better educated, harder working, more aware, better friends, worse enemies than any other nation on this planet if we expect to maintain our primacy. We are, increasingly, doing a wretched job of this.

And, perpetual whiners such as you are the manifest evidence of this failure.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA