"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...
Doug White wrote:
For many years now, I have always used the black handle Xcelite Phillips
screwdrivers with the chrome shaft & black tip. I outfitted my
electronics bench with a fresh set a few years ago, and the #1 Phillips
tip is already toast. I took apart a dead stick vacuum cleaner today
that had a dozen screws down in holes, and I had to get my other #1
driver from my woodworking toolbox to finish the job. It is also
showing signs of excess wear on the tip.

One problem is that the #1 tip is very pointy, and I think it is
bottoming out on some screws, which increases its tendency to slip.
This accelerates the damage & makes it more likely to slip the next
time. The #2 tip is definitely rounded and no where near as pointy.
The #0 seems to have a some of the same issue, but not as pronounced.

I'm going to have to replace the #1's (and may get another #0 as well),
and was wondering if folks have a favorite brand that grips screws well
and holds up better. I've had good luck with Wiha drivers in the past,
but mostly for smaller stuff (jeweler's screwdriver size).


Xcelite's quality dropped, after Cooper Tools bought them. Like every
other brand that they've purchased.

Like Weller soldering irons; I bought a new TCP-1 and the thermostat didn't
last a month.

They replaced the stat, no quibble - it lasted about a week.

They also used thinner plating on the tips - they usually broke through on
the bit inside the element barrel, the copper oxide would build up and seize
it in solid.

I switched to Antex because it was a cheap disposable item - it turned out
to be better than Weller.

On 28/12/16 21:01, Benderthe.evilrobot wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...
Doug White wrote:
For many years now, I have always used the black handle Xcelite
Phillips
screwdrivers with the chrome shaft & black tip. I outfitted my
electronics bench with a fresh set a few years ago, and the #1 Phillips
tip is already toast. I took apart a dead stick vacuum cleaner today
that had a dozen screws down in holes, and I had to get my other #1
driver from my woodworking toolbox to finish the job. It is also
showing signs of excess wear on the tip.

One problem is that the #1 tip is very pointy, and I think it is
bottoming out on some screws, which increases its tendency to slip.
This accelerates the damage & makes it more likely to slip the next
time. The #2 tip is definitely rounded and no where near as pointy.
The #0 seems to have a some of the same issue, but not as pronounced.

I'm going to have to replace the #1's (and may get another #0 as well),
and was wondering if folks have a favorite brand that grips screws well
and holds up better. I've had good luck with Wiha drivers in the past,
but mostly for smaller stuff (jeweler's screwdriver size).


Xcelite's quality dropped, after Cooper Tools bought them. Like
every other brand that they've purchased.

Like Weller soldering irons; I bought a new TCP-1 and the thermostat
didn't last a month.

They replaced the stat, no quibble - it lasted about a week.

They also used thinner plating on the tips - they usually broke
through on the bit inside the element barrel, the copper oxide would
build up and seize it in solid.

I switched to Antex because it was a cheap disposable item - it turned
out to be better than Weller.
I always liked my Antex irons and much preferred them to Wellers irons.
I think I've had one element fail and that was easily replaced at a
reasonable price and the iron is still going.

"David Billington" wrote in message
news
On 28/12/16 21:01, Benderthe.evilrobot wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...
Doug White wrote:
For many years now, I have always used the black handle Xcelite
Phillips
screwdrivers with the chrome shaft & black tip. I outfitted my
electronics bench with a fresh set a few years ago, and the #1 Phillips
tip is already toast. I took apart a dead stick vacuum cleaner today
that had a dozen screws down in holes, and I had to get my other #1
driver from my woodworking toolbox to finish the job. It is also
showing signs of excess wear on the tip.

One problem is that the #1 tip is very pointy, and I think it is
bottoming out on some screws, which increases its tendency to slip.
This accelerates the damage & makes it more likely to slip the next
time. The #2 tip is definitely rounded and no where near as pointy.
The #0 seems to have a some of the same issue, but not as pronounced.

I'm going to have to replace the #1's (and may get another #0 as well),
and was wondering if folks have a favorite brand that grips screws well
and holds up better. I've had good luck with Wiha drivers in the past,
but mostly for smaller stuff (jeweler's screwdriver size).


Xcelite's quality dropped, after Cooper Tools bought them. Like every
other brand that they've purchased.

Like Weller soldering irons; I bought a new TCP-1 and the thermostat
didn't last a month.

They replaced the stat, no quibble - it lasted about a week.

They also used thinner plating on the tips - they usually broke through
on the bit inside the element barrel, the copper oxide would build up and
seize it in solid.

I switched to Antex because it was a cheap disposable item - it turned
out to be better than Weller.
I always liked my Antex irons and much preferred them to Wellers irons. I
think I've had one element fail and that was easily replaced at a
reasonable price and the iron is still going.

A company I worked for bought out a competitor and piled all the stuff they
didn't want on the loading bay with a big sign; "help yourself" - I won a
big box of Weller irons that someone had taken to bits.

That kept me going a couple of decades and I even had a few spare to sell.

I was cobbling together sometimes very old parts - that did nothing to
prepare me for the non existent reliability of the iron produced since
Weller became part of Cooper tools.

On 27/12/2016 6:04 AM, Doug White wrote:
For many years now, I have always used the black handle Xcelite Phillips
screwdrivers with the chrome shaft & black tip. I outfitted my
electronics bench with a fresh set a few years ago, and the #1 Phillips
tip is already toast. I took apart a dead stick vacuum cleaner today
that had a dozen screws down in holes, and I had to get my other #1
driver from my woodworking toolbox to finish the job. It is also
showing signs of excess wear on the tip.

One problem is that the #1 tip is very pointy, and I think it is
bottoming out on some screws, which increases its tendency to slip.
This accellerates the damage & makes it more likely to slip the next
time. The #2 tip is definitely rounded and no where near as pointy.
The #0 seems to have a some of the same issue, but not as pronounced.

I'm going to have to replace the #1's (and may get another #0 as well),
and was wondering if folks have a favorite brand that grips screws well
and holds up better. I've had good luck with Wiha drivers in the past,
but mostly for smaller stuff (jeweller's screwdriver size).

Thanks!

Doug White


**Sunflag. Excellent drivers.

I also have a couple of these:

http://prohek.sell.everychina.com/p-...-s2-steel.html

Made from S2 steel. VERY tough.

--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Mr.E wrote in
news
On Mon, 26 Dec 2016 14:12:39 -0500, Michael Black
wrote:

On Mon, 26 Dec 2016, Doug White wrote:

For many years now, I have always used the black handle Xcelite
Phillips screwdrivers with the chrome shaft & black tip. I
outfitted my electronics bench with a fresh set a few years ago, and
the #1 Phillips tip is already toast. I took apart a dead stick
vacuum cleaner today that had a dozen screws down in holes, and I
had to get my other #1 driver from my woodworking toolbox to finish
the job. It is also showing signs of excess wear on the tip.

Isn't the issue that there is some Japanese variant of the Phillips
screw, called something else, so while nominally a Phillips fits it,
it's not really a match?

So either you can't open the screws, or it ruins the screwdriver in
the process.

This would probably be a "JIS" screw. I have some Vessel brand and
Wiha drivers that fit them well.

Well, I now have a set of Vessel JIS screwdrivers. They appear to be
just as pointy as the Phillips drivers I have. I did some digging, and
ran across a drwaing that compares JIS to Phillips:

http://revlimiter.net/blog/wp-conten...post-297194-0-
10691700-1393492211.png

The JIS appears to be pointier. However, I also found a photograph that
compares the two:

http://www.shop.shinhopples.com/imag..._comparison.jp
g

and that shows exactly the opposite.

I think my conclusion is that nobody makes screws or screwdrivers with
tight enough tolerances to be certain of anything. The advice to try
different drivers until you find one that doesn't wiggle before you
apply any force seems as good as it's going to get. I may also grind
the tips back a bit on some of my pointier drivers.

I still need to replace my Phillips #1's, and based on the various
comments, I think I will try Wera or Wiha.

Thanks for all the input & discussion. I'd forgotten all about Reed
Prince, although I'm not sure I've ever run across any.

Doug White

On Thu, 29 Dec 2016 02:56:53 GMT
Doug White wrote:

snip
Well, I now have a set of Vessel JIS screwdrivers. They appear to be
just as pointy as the Phillips drivers I have. I did some digging, and
ran across a drwaing that compares JIS to Phillips:

http://revlimiter.net/blog/wp-conten...1393492211.png

I would say they are mislabeled. The look correct if you reverse the
labels.

The JIS appears to be pointier. However, I also found a photograph that
compares the two:

http://www.shop.shinhopples.com/imag...comparison.jpg

and that shows exactly the opposite.

Those look like I would expect...

I still need to replace my Phillips #1's, and based on the various
comments, I think I will try Wera or Wiha.

I don't think it pays to be a tool elitist anymore. Name Brands are
churning out crap too. One year they selling something good, next year
it isn't but looks EXACTLY the same.

You should just stop into your preferred store, Menards, Home Depot,
Lowes, Sears... and look over what they have. If you use it a short
time and it seems to be okay go buy a spare

If you have a company account you order through though... that's a
different can of worms...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

Benderthe.evilrobot wrote:


"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...

Xcelite's quality dropped, after Cooper Tools bought them. Like every
other brand that they've purchased.

Like Weller soldering irons; I bought a new TCP-1 and the thermostat
didn't last a month.

They replaced the stat, no quibble - it lasted about a week.

They also used thinner plating on the tips - they usually broke through on
the bit inside the element barrel, the copper oxide would build up and
seize it in solid.

I switched to Antex because it was a cheap disposable item - it turned out
to be better than Weller.
Hmm, I use all Weller soldering irons. (Pace for desoldering.) I've been
using the EC1302B iron for ages, works pretty well. I've moved up to the
WSL station and WMP iron in the last couple years. Certainly heats up
faster, not so sure the temperature control is as good, but it is good
enough. One problem is if the plating breaks down on the EC1302B, the back
of the tip can swell and jam it to either the temp sensor or heater, costing
about $60 to repair the iron. The WMP seems to be immune from this.

The tips seem to last about a year for me, which is really quite good
enough.

Jon

Doug White wrote:


I still need to replace my Phillips #1's, and based on the various
comments, I think I will try Wera or Wiha.
I have a number of Wiha drivers, and have been very happy with their fit and
longevity. I don't use them for home construction projects, only for
electronics, so they have seen a bit gentler service.

Jon

"Jon Elson" wrote in message
...
Benderthe.evilrobot wrote:


"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...

Xcelite's quality dropped, after Cooper Tools bought them. Like every
other brand that they've purchased.

Like Weller soldering irons; I bought a new TCP-1 and the thermostat
didn't last a month.

They replaced the stat, no quibble - it lasted about a week.

They also used thinner plating on the tips - they usually broke through
on
the bit inside the element barrel, the copper oxide would build up and
seize it in solid.

I switched to Antex because it was a cheap disposable item - it turned
out
to be better than Weller.
Hmm, I use all Weller soldering irons. (Pace for desoldering.) I've been
using the EC1302B iron for ages, works pretty well. I've moved up to the
WSL station and WMP iron in the last couple years. Certainly heats up
faster, not so sure the temperature control is as good, but it is good
enough. One problem is if the plating breaks down on the EC1302B, the
back
of the tip can swell and jam it to either the temp sensor or heater,
costing
about $60 to repair the iron. The WMP seems to be immune from this.

The tips seem to last about a year for me, which is really quite good
enough.

Simple economics - I could buy a whole Antex iron for less than the cost of
a replacement Weller element that was wrecked by dodgy plating on the bit.

And the cost is a lot less frequent.

On Mon, 26 Dec 2016 19:35:10 GMT, Doug White
wrote:
- hide quoted text -

David Billington wrote in
news
On 26/12/16 19:12, Michael Black wrote:
On Mon, 26 Dec 2016, Doug White wrote:

For many years now, I have always used the black handle Xcelite
Phillips screwdrivers with the chrome shaft & black tip. I
outfitted my electronics bench with a fresh set a few years ago, and
the #1 Phillips tip is already toast. I took apart a dead stick
vacuum cleaner today that had a dozen screws down in holes, and I
had to get my other #1 driver from my woodworking toolbox to finish
the job. It is also showing signs of excess wear on the tip.

Isn't the issue that there is some Japanese variant of the Phillips
screw, called something else, so while nominally a Phillips fits it,
it's not really a match?

So either you can't open the screws, or it ruins the screwdriver in
the process.

Michael
Are you thinking of a pozidrive screw, if so a Phillips screwdriver
shouldn't be used. See
http://bsfixings.uk/the-difference-b...and-pozi-screw and
http://mechanics.stackexchange.com/q...it-a-bad-idea-
to-
use-a-pozidriv-screwdriver-on-a-phillips-head and others. They're
commonly mistaken and the wrong drivers used with the wrong screw
potentially damages both the driver and the screw.

The screws I was working on this morning appear to be Phillips. At
least there is no sign of the extra cross in the heads. I'm not sure
how common Posi-Drive is these days. I tend to buy most of my hardware
from McMaster Carr, and it's all regular Phillips. They don't even list
Posi-Drive as an option, and they have quite a range of drive styles
available.

It's possible that I've run into some Posi-Drives in the past,

Is the Posi slotted? or is it like a Phillips cross-shape or is it like an Allen square shape or a hex?

but the vast majority of the screws I see these days are plain
old Phillips. I think Xcelite just isn't very careful with shaping
the points on their drivers. Either that, or the screw manufacturers
are making a lot of "Phillips" screws with shallow sockets. Or both..

I was on a job site where woodscrews were being put in and taken out an awful lot. Screw guns with Phillips magnetic screw heads were being used, which would involve many more rotations than with a non-powered Phillips head (which would take longer without the drills magnetic screw attachment). Otherwise, the non-screw gun Phillips would look ten times more worthless having done even near as much as a Phillips magnetic attachment for a cordless drill. '

Benderthe.evilrobot wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...
Doug White wrote:
For many years now, I have always used the black handle Xcelite Phillips
screwdrivers with the chrome shaft & black tip. I outfitted my
electronics bench with a fresh set a few years ago, and the #1 Phillips
tip is already toast. I took apart a dead stick vacuum cleaner today
that had a dozen screws down in holes, and I had to get my other #1
driver from my woodworking toolbox to finish the job. It is also
showing signs of excess wear on the tip.

One problem is that the #1 tip is very pointy, and I think it is
bottoming out on some screws, which increases its tendency to slip.
This accelerates the damage & makes it more likely to slip the next
time. The #2 tip is definitely rounded and no where near as pointy.
The #0 seems to have a some of the same issue, but not as pronounced.

I'm going to have to replace the #1's (and may get another #0 as well),
and was wondering if folks have a favorite brand that grips screws well
and holds up better. I've had good luck with Wiha drivers in the past,
but mostly for smaller stuff (jeweler's screwdriver size).


Xcelite's quality dropped, after Cooper Tools bought them. Like
every other brand that they've purchased.

Like Weller soldering irons; I bought a new TCP-1 and the thermostat
didn't last a month.

They replaced the stat, no quibble - it lasted about a week.

They also used thinner plating on the tips - they usually broke through
on the bit inside the element barrel, the copper oxide would build up
and seize it in solid.

I switched to Antex because it was a cheap disposable item - it turned
out to be better than Weller.


I still have a couple SP23 irons, and several of the '60s version of
the 8200 guns. I wore out the internal threads on one SP23, that I
bought in 1970. Someone in the base's welding shop gave me some scrap
welding rods, so I saw, filed and tapped the brass to make my own tips.
They outlasted the plated copper tips.

I also have one of the SP series that's 175 watts.

I have some Xcelite tools from the '60s & 70s as well. I would
have more, but someone broke into my service truck decades go and took
most of my tools. I have one of the early 99SM kits, that was given to
me by a friend while I was in the Army. He laughed and gave me the
sealed package, then he said that he had watched me fix everything at
the radio & TV station with almost no tools for a full year, so he
wanted to make sure I had a nice set when I got home a week later. I've
had it for 42+ years, and I wore out the two hand reamers.


--
Never **** off an Engineer!

They don't get mad.

They don't get even.

They go for over unity! ;-)

On Wednesday, December 28, 2016 at 2:20:12 PM UTC-5, Michael Terrell wrote:
Doug White wrote:
For many years now, I have always used the black handle Xcelite Phillips
screwdrivers with the chrome shaft & black tip. I outfitted my
electronics bench with a fresh set a few years ago, and the #1 Phillips
tip is already toast. I took apart a dead stick vacuum cleaner today
that had a dozen screws down in holes, and I had to get my other #1
driver from my woodworking toolbox to finish the job. It is also
showing signs of excess wear on the tip.

One problem is that the #1 tip is very pointy, and I think it is
bottoming out on some screws, which increases its tendency to slip.
This accelerates the damage & makes it more likely to slip the next
time. The #2 tip is definitely rounded and no where near as pointy.
The #0 seems to have a some of the same issue, but not as pronounced.

I'm going to have to replace the #1's (and may get another #0 as well),
and was wondering if folks have a favorite brand that grips screws well
and holds up better. I've had good luck with Wiha drivers in the past,
but mostly for smaller stuff (jeweler's screwdriver size).


Xcelite's quality dropped, after Cooper Tools bought them. Like
every other brand that they've purchased.
Huh, well that explains it.
I bought a new pair of diagonal cutters from xcelite and was unimpressed with
the quality. (I nicked off the end cutting out some dip leads.)

George H.


--
Never **** off an Engineer!

They don't get mad.

They don't get even.

They go for over unity! ;-)