Practical advice (helpful hints & suggestions) requested from those of you
who have successfully checked camber at home (to sufficient accuracy).

If you have never checked your automotive alignment camber at home, you
probably won't be able to add much practical value to this thread; however
if you have actually measured your wheel camber with sufficient accuracy at
home, you almost certainly can add valuable pragmatic hints to this thread
(such that we'll all learn from your experience).

I am researching whether automotive alignment camber quick checks are yet
possible to a reasonable degree of accuracy using a free app on a common
mobile device (either iOS or Android, both of which I own).

A search does find a variety of methods to check camber at home:
https://www.google.com/search?q=check+camber+at+home
where some of those articles used mobile phone apps
(e.g., XXXXXX)

Here I am just asking for advice from those of you who have successfully
checked your camber at home using your smartphone to measure the angles to
sufficient accuracy.

To find apps which measure angles to sufficient accuracy, I have already
run a variety of Google searches of the general form:
1. review best ios free app angle automotive alignment camber accurate
2. review best android free app angle automotive alignment camber accurate

Some hits from the iOS searches are as follows:
A. Wheel Align for ALiSENSOR Wheel By Gloi AB
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/whee...or/id513879710
B. iHandy Level Free By iHandy Inc.
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/ihan...ee/id299852753
C. Clinometer + bubble level + slope finder (3 in 1) By Peter Breitling
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/clin...el/id286215117

Some hits from the Android searches are as follows:
A. Clinometer + bubble level By plaincode
https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...ode.clinometer
B. iHandy Level Free By iHandy Ltd.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...arpenter.level
C. Angle Meter PRO By nakhon phagdeechat
https://play.google.com/store/apps/d....anglemeterpro

The amount of useless responses to this thread can be minimized simply by
asking those who don't care to or who haven't ever successfully checked
their camber at home to NOT respond (they're not going to be able to tell
us anything we don't already know - all they're going to do is clutter up
this thread to make it harder to be useful to others).

However, if you have ever attempted to check your camber at home using a
smart phone angle measuring tool, your insight, hints, and advice would be
greatly appreciated (and would be generally useful to many people).

Horatio Alger and/or one of his many clones is trolling again. Just check the source.

As to checking Camber "at home". When it comes to vehicular safety, when it comes to the lives of my wife, kids and grandkids, not to mention me, my advice is DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME - as no matter how smart the phone, the operator will be an idiot.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

Ooooops.
A search does find a variety of methods to check camber at home:
https://www.google.com/search?q=check+camber+at+home
where some of those articles used mobile phone apps

I had forgotten to link to a descriptive photo of the desired task:
http://i.cubeupload.com/6CPUl7.jpg

I'm sure there are gotchas (e.g., is the garage floor really flat?), but it
seems doable to measure camber at home if we can answer the main obvious
questions which are (I think):

Q: What accuracy is *needed* to measure camber at home?
Q: What accuracy can be *attained* with a typical mobile device?
Q: Is the repeatability sufficient in a typical home measurement setup?
Q: How do we compensate for typical errors (e.g., ride height, flat floor)?

What other gotchas will we need to look at to successfully measure wheel
camber using a mobile device in a typical garage setup?

John Harmon wrote:
Ooooops.
A search does find a variety of methods to check camber at home:
https://www.google.com/search?q=check+camber+at+home
where some of those articles used mobile phone apps

I had forgotten to link to a descriptive photo of the desired task:
http://i.cubeupload.com/6CPUl7.jpg

I'm sure there are gotchas (e.g., is the garage floor really flat?), but it
seems doable to measure camber at home if we can answer the main obvious
questions which are (I think):

Q: What accuracy is *needed* to measure camber at home?

..01 degree or better.

Q: What accuracy can be *attained* with a typical mobile device?

?????????? don't use one myself

Q: Is the repeatability sufficient in a typical home measurement setup?
Q: How do we compensate for typical errors (e.g., ride height, flat floor)?

Same way you do with the machines, Measure the floor and level the
machine prior to use. Using an app you could check the floor span where
you plan to do the work and zero it out.


What other gotchas will we need to look at to successfully measure wheel
camber using a mobile device in a typical garage setup?

How to attach the device to the wheel/hub.

--
Steve W.

On Thursday, December 8, 2016 at 1:32:37 PM UTC-5, Steve W. wrote:

How to attach the device to the wheel/hub.

Not possible centered on the axle and neutral in two axis without additional (and expensive) tooling. Hence the "Idiot Operator" requirement.

Once again, Harmon/Alger is trolling for a Darwin Award.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

On Thursday, December 8, 2016 at 1:32:37 PM UTC-5, Steve W. wrote:

How to attach the device to the wheel/hub.

Not possible centered on the axle and neutral in two axis without additional (and expensive) tooling. Hence the "Idiot Operator" requirement.

Once again, Harmon/Alger is trolling for a Darwin Award.

NOTE: Azimuth accuracy in smart-phone devices (departure from the vertical) is typically less than 10 degrees. OK for orienting the picture on the phone, not so much for measuring tire camber. Pushing right up against the "Idiot Operator" requirement for trusting such a device for such a purpose.

It would be quite useful were the OP to actually make adjustments based on such a device - if we could only be sure when he inevitably wraps himself around a tree thereafter that he does so without any collateral damage. Yes, I am being snarky - but if ever there was a situation for such - this is one.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

actually said:

0.01deg ?? I don't think so...

We really must know to what accuracy we need the measurements to be becuase
every measurement tool ever made has this as its basic issue.

Do you think it's less, or more accurate that we need for camber
measurement?

As just one reference, page 8 of this document says that camber (and toe)
measurements must be accurate to "2 angular minutes".
http://www.bimmerboard.com/members/s...tem%5B1%5D.pdf

The question then becomes how to translate 2 angular minutes into inch
measurements.

On page 10 of that document it says the camber tolerance of another vehicle
model is ? 10' (plus or minus 10 minutes).

So what is 10 minutes in inches?

If your car doesn't pull to one side and the tire is not wearing un-evenly,
the camber is fine.

I realize there are many ways to measure things, and I understand that
you're using the tire wear and handling to measure camber, but I would like
to try to get a bit finer in granularity (especially since lots of other
things can cause both those issues).

I have used an ordinary carpenters bubble level to check it.

I have plenty of carpenters bubble levels, one with digital output, so
that's also another option.

If it is within 1/4 bubble it should be OK.
I understand what you're saying which is that the negative camber on my
rear tires can be anywhere between 0 and minus 2 degrees.

But I would like to get a bit more accurate than 1/4 bubble!

One of my cars specifies the following static camber range, for example:
Front (non-adjustable) camber = -0.7? minimum, 0.3? maximum
Rear (adjustable) camber = -2.2 ?mimimum, -2.0? maximum
( http://www.bmwdiy.info/alignment/index.html )

Most roads have crown so the camber is not as critical as you might think.

Some cars compensate for that by specificying cross camber specs, but mine
are symmetric.

The static negative camber is "supposed" to increase lateral grip. At the
same time, it certainly increases inner tire edge wear and decreases
straight-line braking traction. On uneven road surfaces, you can get camber
thrust (where the tire moves toward the camber).

Problems with this method a
1 ground where the car is parked needs to be both flat and level

Yup. That's a measurement and calibration issue for sure, but luckily, my
garage is extremely flat (I measured it once long ago).

2 ordinary tire bulges out on the bottom, need to set the level
against the tire away from the buldge

That's excellent advice. Since the tire bulges, I wonder if it's best
to use the wheel lugs to mount a jig which is what we measure to?

Sometimes you can simply compare the reading on the front wheels
to the back wheels.

This is a good hint, which is that we can just note what the *delta* is
between the front and back, and measure that delta, over time, with a handy
instrument.

Also note many cars are designed to have the front wheels tilted
inward at the top slightly for stability

Mine has negative camber on both front and rear, but front isn't adjustable
without adding camber plates.

Unless you like this as a hobby, it probably doesn't pay to DIY.

I disagree but I understand your point.
On sheer economy, there are only 3 measurements I need for my sedan:
1. toe front
2. toe rear
3. camber rear

So all I need, to do a "pragmatic" alignment check, is to check those
three.
A. If they're off, then I can get the car aligned for $100 or more.
B. If they're on target, then I save $100 each time I measure them.

Measuring toe in is much more fun.

On page 14 of the document above, it tells me that the static toe and
camber accuracy needs to be:
Toe measuring accuracy ?2' in measuring range ?2? in total range ?18?
Camber measuring accuracy ?1' in measuring range ?3? in total range ?10?
http://i.cubeupload.com/cfaDWp.jpg

Does anyone here know how to convert the 1 and 2 minutes to inches?

Steve W. actually said:

Q: What accuracy is *needed* to measure camber at home?
.01 degree or better.

Thanks for that answer because this is a critical number we must know to do
any aligment reasonably well.

If everyone concurs that 0.01 (one hundredth) of a degree is the desired
accuracy, I can work with that.

One problem with alignment is that we have to be intelligent about
converting units because I found this document where, on page 11, it says:
http://www.bimmerboard.com/members/s...tem%5B1%5D.pdf

But I don't (yet) know how to convert 1 minute to inches.
Does anyone want to take a stab at how to run that conversion?

What other gotchas will we need to look at to successfully measure wheel
camber using a mobile device in a typical garage setup?

How to attach the device to the wheel/hub.

It seems to me that a "jig" of some sort needs to be made so that there is
a plane on the wheel that is (very precicely) parallel to the wheel to the
same 0.01 inches that we need for accuracy.

My initial idea is to take this concept to that 0.01 degree:
http://i.cubeupload.com/6CPUl7.jpg

Maybe bolt a flat steel plate to the wheel lugs (luckily, one of my cars
uses lug bolts so I can just use longer bolts but my other car uses lug
nuts which may make that flat plate bolting on more difficult).

On 12/8/2016 11:23 AM, John Harmon wrote:
Ooooops.
A search does find a variety of methods to check camber at home:
https://www.google.com/search?q=check+camber+at+home
where some of those articles used mobile phone apps

I had forgotten to link to a descriptive photo of the desired task:
http://i.cubeupload.com/6CPUl7.jpg

I'm sure there are gotchas (e.g., is the garage floor really flat?), but it
seems doable to measure camber at home if we can answer the main obvious
questions which are (I think):

Q: What accuracy is *needed* to measure camber at home?
Q: What accuracy can be *attained* with a typical mobile device?
Q: Is the repeatability sufficient in a typical home measurement setup?
Q: How do we compensate for typical errors (e.g., ride height, flat floor)?

What other gotchas will we need to look at to successfully measure wheel
camber using a mobile device in a typical garage setup?


I assume that is the wheel and not a hub cap.
I'm guessing your looking for something between 0.5* and 2*, but I want
to know.
Someone said you need accuracy within .01 degrees, that's 1% of 1
degree. Good luck getting the 18 year old at the tire shop to do that.
I'd be happy with 10%, being that it is an adjustable characteristic
that can depend on how you want to drive the car, comfort or cornering.
I don't have a clue about phone app accuracy, but you can check it.
But hey, I've never done it, so don't read my response.


Mikek

amdx actually said:

I assume that is the wheel and not a hub cap.

The car I will test this out first on is a bimmer with alloy wheels and lug
bolts so both those traits make the task of bolting on a jig easier than if
it were a steel wheel with lug nuts.

I'm guessing your looking for something between 0.5* and 2*, but I want
to know.

I later found this BMW spec which shows that I need accuracy in 1 or 2
minutes ( http://i.cubeupload.com/cfaDWp.jpg ) but how do I convert that 1
and 2 minutes to inches?

Someone said you need accuracy within .01 degrees, that's 1% of 1
degree.

I think he meant inches though.

Good luck getting the 18 year old at the tire shop to do that.
I'd be happy with 10%, being that it is an adjustable characteristic
that can depend on how you want to drive the car, comfort or cornering.

I understand that the alignment shop guy might not care all that much to
get as accurate as he can.

Right now, I think the accuracy needs to be plus or minus one minute for
toe and 2 minutes for camber.

I just don't know how to convert minutes to inches.

Tekkie? actually said:

Measuring toe in is much more fun.

+1 at least

According to this graphic, I need to repeatably measure toe to plus or
minus 2 minutes of accuracy and camber to plus or minus 1 minute of
accuracy:
http://i.cubeupload.com/cfaDWp.jpg

Static camber will be measured in degrees, so the plus or minus 1 minute of
accuracy is easy enough for me to understand.

But sttic toe is usually measured in inches, so a problem is how do I
convert the 2 minutes of accuracy to a plus or minus inch figure?

"John Harmon"

I just don't know how to convert minutes to inches.

You can't. Minutes of angle are a function of a
triangle.
Inches are simply a scalar measurement of distance.

On 12/8/2016 2:12 PM, John Harmon wrote:
actually said:

0.01deg ?? I don't think so...

We really must know to what accuracy we need the measurements to be becuase
every measurement tool ever made has this as its basic issue.

Do you think it's less, or more accurate that we need for camber
measurement?

As just one reference, page 8 of this document says that camber (and toe)
measurements must be accurate to "2 angular minutes".
http://www.bimmerboard.com/members/s...tem%5B1%5D.pdf

The question then becomes how to translate 2 angular minutes into inch
measurements.

On page 10 of that document it says the camber tolerance of another vehicle
model is ? 10' (plus or minus 10 minutes).

So what is 10 minutes in inches?

If your car doesn't pull to one side and the tire is not wearing un-evenly,
the camber is fine.

I realize there are many ways to measure things, and I understand that
you're using the tire wear and handling to measure camber, but I would like
to try to get a bit finer in granularity (especially since lots of other
things can cause both those issues).

I have used an ordinary carpenters bubble level to check it.

I have plenty of carpenters bubble levels, one with digital output, so
that's also another option.

If it is within 1/4 bubble it should be OK.
I understand what you're saying which is that the negative camber on my
rear tires can be anywhere between 0 and minus 2 degrees.

But I would like to get a bit more accurate than 1/4 bubble!

One of my cars specifies the following static camber range, for example:
Front (non-adjustable) camber = -0.7? minimum, 0.3? maximum
Rear (adjustable) camber = -2.2 ?mimimum, -2.0? maximum
( http://www.bmwdiy.info/alignment/index.html )

Most roads have crown so the camber is not as critical as you might think.

Some cars compensate for that by specificying cross camber specs, but mine
are symmetric.

The static negative camber is "supposed" to increase lateral grip. At the
same time, it certainly increases inner tire edge wear and decreases
straight-line braking traction. On uneven road surfaces, you can get camber
thrust (where the tire moves toward the camber).

Problems with this method a
1 ground where the car is parked needs to be both flat and level

Yup. That's a measurement and calibration issue for sure, but luckily, my
garage is extremely flat (I measured it once long ago).

2 ordinary tire bulges out on the bottom, need to set the level
against the tire away from the buldge

That's excellent advice. Since the tire bulges, I wonder if it's best
to use the wheel lugs to mount a jig which is what we measure to?



A jig, if you can't use the actual wheel.




Sometimes you can simply compare the reading on the front wheels
to the back wheels.

This is a good hint, which is that we can just note what the *delta* is
between the front and back, and measure that delta, over time, with a handy
instrument.

Also note many cars are designed to have the front wheels tilted
inward at the top slightly for stability

Mine has negative camber on both front and rear, but front isn't adjustable
without adding camber plates.

Unless you like this as a hobby, it probably doesn't pay to DIY.

I disagree but I understand your point.
On sheer economy, there are only 3 measurements I need for my sedan:
1. toe front
2. toe rear
3. camber rear

So all I need, to do a "pragmatic" alignment check, is to check those
three.
A. If they're off, then I can get the car aligned for $100 or more.
B. If they're on target, then I save $100 each time I measure them.

Measuring toe in is much more fun.

On page 14 of the document above, it tells me that the static toe and
camber accuracy needs to be:
Toe measuring accuracy ?2' in measuring range ?2? in total range ?18?
Camber measuring accuracy ?1' in measuring range ?3? in total range ?10?
http://i.cubeupload.com/cfaDWp.jpg

Does anyone here know how to convert the 1 and 2 minutes to inches?

No, But 30 min is equal to 0.5 degrees.
Mikek

Phil Kangas actually said:

I just don't know how to convert minutes to inches.

You can't. Minutes of angle are a function of a
triangle.
Inches are simply a scalar measurement of distance.

That's bad news because both the toe and camber are specified in degrees
but when I measure toe, it will be in inches.

At least when I measure the camber it will be in degrees so I won't be
switching units back and forth.

I know how to physically measure toe in inches (e.g., with a string); but I
don't (yet) know how to measure toe in degrees with a smart phone or
digital level.

amdx actually said:

That's excellent advice. Since the tire bulges, I wonder if it's best
to use the wheel lugs to mount a jig which is what we measure to?
A jig, if you can't use the actual wheel.

I agree that, for our purposes, we should assume I jury rig a jig of some
sort so that there is a flat completely perpendicular plate bolted onto the
axle somehow (probably placed on the outside of the wheels using the lug
bolts or lug nuts).

Does anyone here know how to convert the 1 and 2 minutes to inches?

No, But 30 min is equal to 0.5 degrees.

Right. And the 1 and 2 minutes are 1/60th and 1/30th of a degree
respectively.

But what is 1/60th of a degree in inches?

On 12/8/2016 2:17 PM, John Harmon wrote:
amdx actually said:

I assume that is the wheel and not a hub cap.

The car I will test this out first on is a bimmer with alloy wheels and lug
bolts so both those traits make the task of bolting on a jig easier than if
it were a steel wheel with lug nuts.

I'm guessing your looking for something between 0.5* and 2*, but I want
to know.

I later found this BMW spec which shows that I need accuracy in 1 or 2
minutes ( http://i.cubeupload.com/cfaDWp.jpg ) but how do I convert that 1
and 2 minutes to inches?

Someone said you need accuracy within .01 degrees, that's 1% of 1
degree.

I think he meant inches though.

Good luck getting the 18 year old at the tire shop to do that.
I'd be happy with 10%, being that it is an adjustable characteristic
that can depend on how you want to drive the car, comfort or cornering.

I understand that the alignment shop guy might not care all that much to
get as accurate as he can.

Right now, I think the accuracy needs to be plus or minus one minute for
toe and 2 minutes for camber.

I just don't know how to convert minutes to inches.


Something wrong, 30 minutes is equal to 0.5 degrees.
1 minute is 0.0167 degrees, I don't think that's what you are after.

You might play with a trig calculator.
http://www.carbidedepot.com/formulas-trigright.asp
I put in a 1 degree angle for (angle a) and 16" for
(side B) Then hit calculate to find (side a).
This says you need 0.279" of tilt top to bottom
on a 16" wheel.
Note: this triangle is rotated 90* to your wheel.
So take that into account when thinking about the calculation.
Bottom line, for a 1 degree angle you need a tilt of 0.279" over 16".
That's measurable, but you need a post 90* off the floor.

Mikek

On 12/8/2016 3:13 PM, John Harmon wrote:
amdx actually said:

That's excellent advice. Since the tire bulges, I wonder if it's best
to use the wheel lugs to mount a jig which is what we measure to?
A jig, if you can't use the actual wheel.

I agree that, for our purposes, we should assume I jury rig a jig of some
sort so that there is a flat completely perpendicular plate bolted onto the
axle somehow (probably placed on the outside of the wheels using the lug
bolts or lug nuts).

Does anyone here know how to convert the 1 and 2 minutes to inches?

No, But 30 min is equal to 0.5 degrees.

Right. And the 1 and 2 minutes are 1/60th and 1/30th of a degree
respectively.

But what is 1/60th of a degree in inches?
That depends on the length.
Mikek

On Thursday, December 8, 2016 at 3:12:14 PM UTC-5, John Harmon wrote:
actually said:

0.01deg ?? I don't think so...


You are well-and-truly an idiot!

The measuring device must be accurate to one one-hundredth of a degree, or two decimal places. The measurement itself will be far less sensitive than that, probably to a single degree, no more. But if I am staring (for instance) at 90 degrees and want to get to 89.75 degrees - hence the need for that level of accuracy.

Azimuth on the typical smart-phone (how accurate is it a measuring off the vertical) is typically somewhere between 8 (at best) and 15 degrees - and that only if it has a screen-orientation function. Many do not. And many more have only a 90-degree function and only in one direction.

Put another way, the phone is smart enough not to even attempt the process. The idiot owner who insists that it is possible - with the right app/software - deserves exactly what he gets.

Minutes are a circular unit-of-measure. Not a linear unit. So, "inches" will be measured at some point on a diameter as compared to another point along that diameter using a fixed radius. If 'vertical' minutes, one endpoint of that radius will be the center of the earth. If other than vertical, the determining endpoint will be something hopefully more nearby such as the axle or some specified point. And the diameter on which the distance is measured will be specified.

But, minutes do not convert to inches other than the chord defined by the starting point and the end point of the measured distance along the total arc.

False premises lead to false conclusions. I am calling you an idiot as you seem congenitally unable to understand the most basic geometry - previously most basic physics - yet insist on some sort of false precision to draw others into your idiocy as an actual problem. It isn't. Otherwise, you are a simple (very simple) troll. Yeah, I am responding - in the same way that our grandkids enjoy Wack-A-Mole at the penny arcade. You will probably never go away, but well-turned invective can be enjoyable, even if against a helpless target.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

On 12/8/2016 2:12 PM, John Harmon wrote:
actually said:

0.01deg ?? I don't think so...

We really must know to what accuracy we need the measurements to be becuase
every measurement tool ever made has this as its basic issue.

Do you think it's less, or more accurate that we need for camber
measurement?

As just one reference, page 8 of this document says that camber (and toe)
measurements must be accurate to "2 angular minutes".
http://www.bimmerboard.com/members/s...tem%5B1%5D.pdf

The question then becomes how to translate 2 angular minutes into inch
measurements.

On page 10 of that document it says the camber tolerance of another vehicle
model is ? 10' (plus or minus 10 minutes).

So what is 10 minutes in inches?

If your car doesn't pull to one side and the tire is not wearing un-evenly,
the camber is fine.

I realize there are many ways to measure things, and I understand that
you're using the tire wear and handling to measure camber, but I would like
to try to get a bit finer in granularity (especially since lots of other
things can cause both those issues).

I have used an ordinary carpenters bubble level to check it.

I have plenty of carpenters bubble levels, one with digital output, so
that's also another option.

If it is within 1/4 bubble it should be OK.
I understand what you're saying which is that the negative camber on my
rear tires can be anywhere between 0 and minus 2 degrees.

But I would like to get a bit more accurate than 1/4 bubble!

One of my cars specifies the following static camber range, for example:
Front (non-adjustable) camber = -0.7? minimum, 0.3? maximum
Rear (adjustable) camber = -2.2 ?mimimum, -2.0? maximum
( http://www.bmwdiy.info/alignment/index.html )

Most roads have crown so the camber is not as critical as you might think.

Some cars compensate for that by specificying cross camber specs, but mine
are symmetric.

The static negative camber is "supposed" to increase lateral grip. At the
same time, it certainly increases inner tire edge wear and decreases
straight-line braking traction. On uneven road surfaces, you can get camber
thrust (where the tire moves toward the camber).

Problems with this method a
1 ground where the car is parked needs to be both flat and level

Yup. That's a measurement and calibration issue for sure, but luckily, my
garage is extremely flat (I measured it once long ago).

2 ordinary tire bulges out on the bottom, need to set the level
against the tire away from the buldge

That's excellent advice. Since the tire bulges, I wonder if it's best
to use the wheel lugs to mount a jig which is what we measure to?

Sometimes you can simply compare the reading on the front wheels
to the back wheels.

This is a good hint, which is that we can just note what the *delta* is
between the front and back, and measure that delta, over time, with a handy
instrument.

Also note many cars are designed to have the front wheels tilted
inward at the top slightly for stability

Mine has negative camber on both front and rear, but front isn't adjustable
without adding camber plates.

Unless you like this as a hobby, it probably doesn't pay to DIY.

I disagree but I understand your point.
On sheer economy, there are only 3 measurements I need for my sedan:
1. toe front
2. toe rear
3. camber rear

So all I need, to do a "pragmatic" alignment check, is to check those
three.
A. If they're off, then I can get the car aligned for $100 or more.
B. If they're on target, then I save $100 each time I measure them.

Measuring toe in is much more fun.

On page 14 of the document above, it tells me that the static toe and
camber accuracy needs to be:
Toe measuring accuracy ?2' in measuring range ?2? in total range ?18?
Camber measuring accuracy ?1' in measuring range ?3? in total range ?10?
http://i.cubeupload.com/cfaDWp.jpg

Does anyone here know how to convert the 1 and 2 minutes to inches?


Sort of mixed units.

For a circle with radius about 286.5 feet your circumference
will be about 21,600 inches so each minute of arc will be
one inch. I don't think that helps you here.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Thu, 8 Dec 2016 17:00:41 -0000 (UTC), John Harmon
wrote:

Practical advice (helpful hints & suggestions) requested from those of you
who have successfully checked camber at home (to sufficient accuracy).

The accuracy of the level application on my one phone is out bt over
7 degrees. That is a simple "level" app.. The "rigid" level
application on my Blackberry PlayBook is very accurate - How you
reference it to the wheel will be the biggest variable that can
through your accuracy off. A trammel type setup made from a straight
bar of metal (or "straight" hardwood) with 2 screws protruding to
reach the edge of the rim, adjusted to be identical in protrusion,
will transfer the wheel angle accurately to the "level". You can
determine if the rim is true to the spindle by checking the level with
the bar upright with the wheel turned 180 degrees to make sure the
reading is the same with the wheel turned.

If you have never checked your automotive alignment camber at home, you
probably won't be able to add much practical value to this thread; however
if you have actually measured your wheel camber with sufficient accuracy at
home, you almost certainly can add valuable pragmatic hints to this thread
(such that we'll all learn from your experience).


WITH CARE you can check your camber to a reasonably high level of
accuracy. To get the camber "normalized" you need to roll the car
back and forth a few feet so the car "settles" on it's suspension. A
professional setup uses a "slip plate" that allows the wheels to slide
in and out with little resistance. Normal procedure is to bounce the
car on the slip plates to "normalize" the suspension.
I am researching whether automotive alignment camber quick checks are yet
possible to a reasonable degree of accuracy using a free app on a common
mobile device (either iOS or Android, both of which I own).


I've done it long pre-smart-phone using a simple bubble level to
verify the alignment was "close enough" afterr an accident in central
Africa severely damaged the front of my Peugeot.
I've also done hundreds of alignments with "pro" equipment.
A search does find a variety of methods to check camber at home:
https://www.google.com/search?q=check+camber+at+home
where some of those articles used mobile phone apps
(e.g., XXXXXX)

Here I am just asking for advice from those of you who have successfully
checked your camber at home using your smartphone to measure the angles to
sufficient accuracy.

To find apps which measure angles to sufficient accuracy, I have already
run a variety of Google searches of the general form:
1. review best ios free app angle automotive alignment camber accurate
2. review best android free app angle automotive alignment camber accurate

Some hits from the iOS searches are as follows:
A. Wheel Align for ALiSENSOR Wheel By Gloi AB
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/whee...or/id513879710
B. iHandy Level Free By iHandy Inc.
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/ihan...ee/id299852753
C. Clinometer + bubble level + slope finder (3 in 1) By Peter Breitling
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/clin...el/id286215117

Some hits from the Android searches are as follows:
A. Clinometer + bubble level By plaincode
https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...ode.clinometer
B. iHandy Level Free By iHandy Ltd.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...arpenter.level
C. Angle Meter PRO By nakhon phagdeechat
https://play.google.com/store/apps/d....anglemeterpro

The amount of useless responses to this thread can be minimized simply by
asking those who don't care to or who haven't ever successfully checked
their camber at home to NOT respond (they're not going to be able to tell
us anything we don't already know - all they're going to do is clutter up
this thread to make it harder to be useful to others).

However, if you have ever attempted to check your camber at home using a
smart phone angle measuring tool, your insight, hints, and advice would be
greatly appreciated (and would be generally useful to many people).

John Harmon writes:

amdx actually said:

That's excellent advice. Since the tire bulges, I wonder if it's best
to use the wheel lugs to mount a jig which is what we measure to?
A jig, if you can't use the actual wheel.

I agree that, for our purposes, we should assume I jury rig a jig of some
sort so that there is a flat completely perpendicular plate bolted onto the
axle somehow (probably placed on the outside of the wheels using the lug
bolts or lug nuts).

Does anyone here know how to convert the 1 and 2 minutes to inches?

No, But 30 min is equal to 0.5 degrees.

Right. And the 1 and 2 minutes are 1/60th and 1/30th of a degree
respectively.

But what is 1/60th of a degree in inches?

For small angles sin(A) = A (provided A is in radians) and d times
sin(A) (hence d times A) is the displacement at a distance d caused by
an angle a. To convert to radians, multiply degrees by .0174532925199
(pi/180).

For example, 2 minutes = 1/30 deg = .0005817764173 radians so 8 inches
from the hub that corresponds to a displacement of 8 * .0005817764173 =
..00465 inches or 4.65 thousandths of an inch (0.118 mm). I image that's
hard to measure.

The suggested accuracy of 0.01 degrees corresponds to a displacement of
3.5 micrometres at 8 inches. That's less the typical width of a human
head hair.

--
Ben.

On Thu, 8 Dec 2016 20:12:12 -0000 (UTC), John Harmon
wrote:

actually said:

0.01deg ?? I don't think so...

We really must know to what accuracy we need the measurements to be becuase
every measurement tool ever made has this as its basic issue.

Do you think it's less, or more accurate that we need for camber
measurement?

As just one reference, page 8 of this document says that camber (and toe)
measurements must be accurate to "2 angular minutes".
http://www.bimmerboard.com/members/s...tem%5B1%5D.pdf

The question then becomes how to translate 2 angular minutes into inch
measurements.

Well, 2 angular minutes is 1/30 degree, 03 0.03 degrees.

On page 10 of that document it says the camber tolerance of another vehicle
model is ? 10' (plus or minus 10 minutes).

So what is 10 minutes in inches?
It is .01 degrees

If your car doesn't pull to one side and the tire is not wearing un-evenly,
the camber is fine.

I realize there are many ways to measure things, and I understand that
you're using the tire wear and handling to measure camber, but I would like
to try to get a bit finer in granularity (especially since lots of other
things can cause both those issues).

I have used an ordinary carpenters bubble level to check it.

I have plenty of carpenters bubble levels, one with digital output, so
that's also another option.

If it is within 1/4 bubble it should be OK.
I understand what you're saying which is that the negative camber on my
rear tires can be anywhere between 0 and minus 2 degrees.

But I would like to get a bit more accurate than 1/4 bubble!

One of my cars specifies the following static camber range, for example:
Front (non-adjustable) camber = -0.7? minimum, 0.3? maximum
Rear (adjustable) camber = -2.2 ?mimimum, -2.0? maximum
( http://www.bmwdiy.info/alignment/index.html )

Most roads have crown so the camber is not as critical as you might think.

Some cars compensate for that by specificying cross camber specs, but mine
are symmetric.

And the caster has an offset instead.

The static negative camber is "supposed" to increase lateral grip. At the
same time, it certainly increases inner tire edge wear and decreases
straight-line braking traction. On uneven road surfaces, you can get camber
thrust (where the tire moves toward the camber).

Problems with this method a
1 ground where the car is parked needs to be both flat and level

Yup. That's a measurement and calibration issue for sure, but luckily, my
garage is extremely flat (I measured it once long ago).

2 ordinary tire bulges out on the bottom, need to set the level
against the tire away from the buldge

That's excellent advice. Since the tire bulges, I wonder if it's best
to use the wheel lugs to mount a jig which is what we measure to?

Like I said in an earlier post - make a "jig" - a kind of trammel
device - that contacts the lip of the rim and transfers the
measurement out to a straightedge that spans the rim fiving a flat
surface parallel with the wheel centerline. Best to use this for toe
adjustments as well.

Sometimes you can simply compare the reading on the front wheels
to the back wheels.

This is a good hint, which is that we can just note what the *delta* is
between the front and back, and measure that delta, over time, with a handy
instrument.

Also note many cars are designed to have the front wheels tilted
inward at the top slightly for stability

Mine has negative camber on both front and rear, but front isn't adjustable
without adding camber plates.

Unless you like this as a hobby, it probably doesn't pay to DIY.

I disagree but I understand your point.
On sheer economy, there are only 3 measurements I need for my sedan:
1. toe front
2. toe rear
3. camber rear

So all I need, to do a "pragmatic" alignment check, is to check those
three.
A. If they're off, then I can get the car aligned for $100 or more.
B. If they're on target, then I save $100 each time I measure them.

Measuring toe in is much more fun.

On page 14 of the document above, it tells me that the static toe and
camber accuracy needs to be:
Toe measuring accuracy ?2' in measuring range ?2? in total range ?18?
Camber measuring accuracy ?1' in measuring range ?3? in total range ?10?
http://i.cubeupload.com/cfaDWp.jpg

Does anyone here know how to convert the 1 and 2 minutes to inches?

minutes are 1/60th of a degree.. Converting that to inches requires
offset and trig. The farther you can extend the "offset" the more
accurate you can be. I use a laser level on the trammel jig to extend
the line out about 10 feet from the spindle. Then do the calcs to find
out how much toe-in you want at 10 feet for the angle specified. If
the toe is specified in inches it is the difference between the front
and back of the tire circumference. Again, some calculations will
allow you to measure farther out for more accuracy.

On Thu, 8 Dec 2016 20:12:14 -0000 (UTC), John Harmon
wrote:

Steve W. actually said:

Q: What accuracy is *needed* to measure camber at home?
.01 degree or better.

Thanks for that answer because this is a critical number we must know to do
any aligment reasonably well.

If everyone concurs that 0.01 (one hundredth) of a degree is the desired
accuracy, I can work with that.

One problem with alignment is that we have to be intelligent about
converting units because I found this document where, on page 11, it says:

Quote:

Quick-acting clamp + measuring sensor + computer = 1' at a measuring range of ? 3? (all BMW vehicles are within that ? 3? measuring range).

http://www.bimmerboard.com/members/s...tem%5B1%5D.pdf



But I don't (yet) know how to convert 1 minute to inches.
Does anyone want to take a stab at how to run that conversion?
Pythagorus' theorem -, or better yet, trigonometry. Or a triangle
calculator like http://www.cleavebooks.co.uk/scol/calrtri.htm Solve a
triangle. You know (from your measurements) the base of the triangle
(distance from spindle) and the height (difference between the
projected line and "straight"), or the base and 2 angles (the desired
angle and 90 degrees) to calculate the height. One way tells you what
angle you have, the other gives you the distance measurement you WANT.


What other gotchas will we need to look at to successfully measure wheel
camber using a mobile device in a typical garage setup?

Your biggest problem is getting your head around all the concepts.

How to attach the device to the wheel/hub.

It seems to me that a "jig" of some sort needs to be made so that there is
a plane on the wheel that is (very precicely) parallel to the wheel to the
same 0.01 inches that we need for accuracy.

My initial idea is to take this concept to that 0.01 degree:
http://i.cubeupload.com/6CPUl7.jpg


On some vehicles it CAN be that simple -- On others it is definitely
a wee bit more complex, but you have the idea.
Maybe bolt a flat steel plate to the wheel lugs (luckily, one of my cars
uses lug bolts so I can just use longer bolts but my other car uses lug
nuts which may make that flat plate bolting on more difficult).

And the length of the studs/bolts gets critical - not to mention it
works best with 4 or 6 studs - not so good on odd numbers like the
common 5, or the less common 3 stud wheels.

On Thu, 8 Dec 2016 20:17:43 -0000 (UTC), John Harmon
wrote:

amdx actually said:

I assume that is the wheel and not a hub cap.

The car I will test this out first on is a bimmer with alloy wheels and lug
bolts so both those traits make the task of bolting on a jig easier than if
it were a steel wheel with lug nuts.

I'm guessing your looking for something between 0.5* and 2*, but I want
to know.

I later found this BMW spec which shows that I need accuracy in 1 or 2
minutes ( http://i.cubeupload.com/cfaDWp.jpg ) but how do I convert that 1
and 2 minutes to inches?

Someone said you need accuracy within .01 degrees, that's 1% of 1
degree.

I think he meant inches though.

Good luck getting the 18 year old at the tire shop to do that.
I'd be happy with 10%, being that it is an adjustable characteristic
that can depend on how you want to drive the car, comfort or cornering.

I understand that the alignment shop guy might not care all that much to
get as accurate as he can.

Right now, I think the accuracy needs to be plus or minus one minute for
toe and 2 minutes for camber.

I just don't know how to convert minutes to inches.
There is a saying about Bimmers.
If you have to ask how much - for anything - you can't afford to drive
a bimmer.. There are enough things that can go wrong in the front end
of one of those kraut-wagons that I think you are definitely being
penny wise and pound foolish trying to save $100 on the maintenance of
a late model Bimmer. Don't be such a cheap-ass. - or drive a Chevy.

You want to know if anything is worn or bent - and measuring CASTER is
required as well to know. You really don't have your head around the
concepts well enough to understand WHY an alignment check should be
done properly. Your "quick check" is just that - and if you are at all
in tune with your car as a driver you will know there is something
wrong just as well by simply driving the car. If you are not "in tune
with the car" the Bimmer is wasted on you --- (as it is on the vast
majority of Bimmer owners)

On Thu, 8 Dec 2016 21:13:31 -0000 (UTC), John Harmon
wrote:

Phil Kangas actually said:

I just don't know how to convert minutes to inches.

You can't. Minutes of angle are a function of a
triangle.
Inches are simply a scalar measurement of distance.

That's bad news because both the toe and camber are specified in degrees
but when I measure toe, it will be in inches.

At least when I measure the camber it will be in degrees so I won't be
switching units back and forth.

I know how to physically measure toe in inches (e.g., with a string); but I
don't (yet) know how to measure toe in degrees with a smart phone or
digital level.
If you are going to measure the toe with a string, you may as well
forget about it. You can NOT get enough accuracy or repeatability to
determine if the toe is correct or not. Without pro equipment, to get
that granular in your measurement you NEED to extend your measurements
5 or 10 feet and measure with a goor steel tape measure, or extend the
displaced centerline accurately and measure with a steel rule. Using
the simple tape measure will give you the total toe - which will be
double the specified toe per wheel, and will not tell you if you are
off-center.

On Thu, 8 Dec 2016 21:13:33 -0000 (UTC), John Harmon
wrote:

amdx actually said:

That's excellent advice. Since the tire bulges, I wonder if it's best
to use the wheel lugs to mount a jig which is what we measure to?
A jig, if you can't use the actual wheel.

I agree that, for our purposes, we should assume I jury rig a jig of some
sort so that there is a flat completely perpendicular plate bolted onto the
axle somehow (probably placed on the outside of the wheels using the lug
bolts or lug nuts).

Does anyone here know how to convert the 1 and 2 minutes to inches?

No, But 30 min is equal to 0.5 degrees.

Right. And the 1 and 2 minutes are 1/60th and 1/30th of a degree
respectively.

But what is 1/60th of a degree in inches?
That depends whether it is at 12.5 inches, 12.5 feet, or 12.5
miles.......
You REALLY need to study your high-school math.

On 12/8/2016 12:00 PM, John Harmon wrote:

The amount of useless responses to this thread can be minimized simply by
asking those who don't care to or who haven't ever successfully checked
their camber at home to NOT respond (they're not going to be able to tell
us anything we don't already know - all they're going to do is clutter up
this thread to make it harder to be useful to others).


New to USENET?
I've done wheel alignment in my garage but given your arrogant attitude
I prefer not potentially clutter things here.

FYI, you won't be the first to call me an asshole today so don't be so
proud when you do so.

amdx actually said:

But what is 1/60th of a degree in inches?
That depends on the length.

Following that statement to the logical next step, here is a
representiative track for my sedan from this thread:
http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...nsion-Overhaul

That photo says that the track is:
- Front Track Width = 1512 mm
- Rear Track Width = 1526 mm

So now what's 1/60th of a degree, in millimeters?

On 12/8/2016 6:54 PM, John Harmon wrote:
amdx actually said:

But what is 1/60th of a degree in inches?
That depends on the length.

Following that statement to the logical next step, here is a
representiative track for my sedan from this thread:
http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...nsion-Overhaul

That photo says that the track is:
- Front Track Width = 1512 mm
- Rear Track Width = 1526 mm

So now what's 1/60th of a degree, in millimeters?



You have a misunderstanding, to figure millimeter or inches,
you need to have two lines that are connected like a below,

l****/
l /
l /
l /
l/
The angle between l and /, we will call 1/60 of a degree,
the **** is the millimeters or inches, BUT, the quantity of millimeters
or inches depends on the length of l, as you can see the longer l the
larger **** will be. But the angle stays the same.


Use the link below
may help you see it.



http://www.carbidedepot.com/formulas-trigright.asp
I put in a 1 degree angle for (angle a) and 16" for
(side B) Then hit calculate to find (side a).
This says you need 0.279" of tilt top to bottom
on a 16" wheel.
Note: this triangle is rotated 90* to your wheel.
So take that into account when thinking about the calculation.
Bottom line, for a 1 degree angle you need a tilt of 0.279" over 16".
That's measurable, but you need a post 90* off the floor to measure from.
Second note: Side (a) the tilt at the top (mm or inches), Side (b) is
perpendicular to the floor, Side (c) would be the tilt of the wheel.
Angle (a) is the degrees of the angle you set.

Mikek

"New to USENET?
I've done wheel alignment in my garage but given your arrogant attitude
I prefer not potentially clutter things here.

FYI, you won't be the first to call me an asshole today so don't be so
proud when you do so. "

I doubt the OP actually even knows what camber is. He is probably conflating it with caster which is the amount the lower parts of the tires are closer together. That angle along with the camber which could also be called steering inclination axis is what makes the steering wheel return to the center.

Unfortunately most of what I know (and I know my limitations) applies to rear wheel drive cars which usually had a toe in, but now with front wheel drive there is usually a toe out.

I don't know if I can say this for true on these newer cars, some of which have quite complicated suspension, but in the old days if you knew how to align a car you could do it with a piece of string. Things have changed and now withe front wheel drive and independent rear wheel suspension having it's own caster and camber, toe in or whatever, has complicated the situation a bit.

But still if you got the money for tires all you have to do is drive the car a while and see the wear on the tires.

Guy was telling me a long time ago that on some Mazeratis there were like four shocks per wheel. I stuck with electronics LOL. In fact last year we did a head job (due to a jumped timing chain) on a Chevy Ecotec engine. I want NOTHING to do with them anymore.

Anyway, camber matter most on turns. the rest of it not so much. Measuring it entails getting the geometry of the hub/tire/whatever at a straight on position and then comparing that to it at a turning position. Camber goes along with the geometry of the whole steering assembly to establish toe out on turns, because one wheel is turning a larger radius than the other. You don't generally set that except maybe on big semi trucks. It is simply figured out when they design it. T%The camber does affect it, but really you don't have to set that unless you change the lower A frame. Even changing the whole strut tower is not likely to affect it much, enough to worry about anyway.

And people want to worry about **** like this when the brake lines are rusting out and the software that runs the engine is about to crash. Gimme a 1967 Chevy, really. Now on those you DID set the camber. It is all in the shop manual. (not a Chilton's)

On Thu, 8 Dec 2016 20:12:12 -0000 (UTC), John Harmon wrote:

translate 2 angular minutes into inch
measurements.

Sheesh, you don't translate angular measurements into linear ones.
An angle isn't a length. Cheers, -- tlvp
--
Avant de repondre, jeter la poubelle, SVP.

On Thu, 8 Dec 2016 20:37:59 -0000 (UTC), John Harmon wrote:

so a problem is how do I
convert the 2 minutes of accuracy to a plus or minus inch figure?

You need a cataly$t, and a good front end man. Bring your vehicle to the
front end man, lubricate him with your cataly$t ($100 should do nicely),
and he'll perform the conversion for you, even adjusting things to the
result you would desire (key word or phrase: "wheel alignment").

HTH. Cheers, -- tlvp
--
Avant de repondre, jeter la poubelle, SVP.

On Thursday, December 8, 2016 at 7:54:19 PM UTC-5, John Harmon wrote:

So now what's 1/60th of a degree, in millimeters?

You are now proven stupid, as well as being a true idiot.

READ THE $%^&*()!@# TEXT in the procedure. Millimeters are not involved. They are mentioned for informational purposes so that *you* might understand why things do not line up front-to-rear. Degrees are involved. Hence the use of a level and plumb-bob. The HORIZONTAL DIMENSION is measured and marked.. This is at the axle. Then The VERTICAL AXIS is determined. If it is at the correct angle from true vertical (hence the need for a level) when the vehicle is on the ground and correctly loaded you now have the correct camber.. WHICH YOU CAN COMPARE TO THE PREVIOUSLY DETERMINED MARK. Which then GIVES YOU A DIMENSION FOR FUTURE REFERENCE.

Back in the day, and at very good shops today, the mechanic will ask the owner whether the car is normally driven solo or with passengers. If solo, he will put (usually) a 40-60 pound weight in the driver's seat to simulate "proper loading".

That you are a BMW owner explains a lot as well.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...age-wheel.html

That you cannot read for content is typical of the species.

The sharpest tool you should be allowed is a rubber spoon.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

On 12/9/2016 7:47 AM, wrote:
On Thursday, December 8, 2016 at 7:54:19 PM UTC-5, John Harmon wrote:

So now what's 1/60th of a degree, in millimeters?

You are now proven stupid, as well as being a true idiot.

Hey Peter, why all the hate?
How is the rest of your life, do you treat everyone this way?
I think I have posted a pretty good explanation to try and give him the
understanding he is missing.
I did it without one vile word.
In fact, I enjoyed it. How joy did you have in your response?
None, you were mad. Huh! How silly. If you are not happy making
a response, why do it.
Mikek

tlvp actually said:

Sheesh, you don't translate angular measurements into linear ones.
An angle isn't a length. Cheers, -- tlvp

I agree that I'm confused (which is why I am hesitating to respond because
I don't wish to muddy the technical issue further for everyone).

The problem with doing camber at home is different from the problem of
doing toe at home.

For my bimmer, the camber is specified in degrees, and the measurement
tools we're exploring measure in degrees.

We just have to solve the conceptually simple problem of
a. Accuracy to 1 minute of angular measurement
b. Creating a wheel plate that meets that accuracy
c. Measuring to that accuracy with a mobile device

The problem, for my bimmer, is that the manufacturer specifies the toe in
degrees, yet we measure in inches. The conversion confuses me to no end
(which is obvious to all).

However, that specific translation problem may be solved if I trust this
layman's chart, for a similar vehicle:
http://www.bmwdiy.info/alignment/index.html

Which puts the toe-in in inch measurements of:
Front toe (left): Minimum = 1/32", Maximum = 3/32"
Front toe (right): Minimum = 1/32", Maximum = 3/32"
Front toe (total): Minimum = 1/32", Maximum = 3/16"

As with all specs written by laypeople, I can't tell if that toe is to the
centerline of the bimmer or wheel to wheel but since they specify a
single-wheel toe, can I safely presume that the spec is to the *centerline*
of the vehicle?

tlvp actually said:

You need a cataly$t, and a good front end man. Bring your vehicle to the
front end man, lubricate him with your cataly$t ($100 should do nicely),
and he'll perform the conversion for you, even adjusting things to the
result you would desire (key word or phrase: "wheel alignment").

Anyone can catalyze a reaction, but the catalyst remains unchanged.

That is, if I do that, I learn absolutely nothing.

I remain as uneducated as before.

On 12/8/2016 7:36 PM, amdx wrote:
On 12/8/2016 6:54 PM, John Harmon wrote:
amdx actually said:

But what is 1/60th of a degree in inches?
That depends on the length.

Following that statement to the logical next step, here is a
representiative track for my sedan from this thread:
http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...nsion-Overhaul


That photo says that the track is:
- Front Track Width = 1512 mm
- Rear Track Width = 1526 mm

So now what's 1/60th of a degree, in millimeters?



Just Repeating so you don't miss my post.
I would like to know if my explanation made any sense to you.
Be sure to use the trig calculator to help you understand.
Maybe even draw out a few right triangles get the idea



You have a misunderstanding.
To figure millimeter or inches, you need to have two lines that are connected like a below,

l****/
l /
l /
l /
l/
The angle between l and /, we will call 1/60 of a degree,
the **** is the millimeters or inches, BUT, the quantity of millimeters
or inches depends on the length of l, as you can see the longer l the
larger **** will be. But the angle stays the same.


Use the link below
may help you see it.



http://www.carbidedepot.com/formulas-trigright.asp
I put in a 1 degree angle for (angle a) and 16" for
(side B) Then hit calculate to find (side a).
This says you need 0.279" of tilt top to bottom
on a 16" wheel.
Note: this triangle is rotated 90* to your wheel.
So take that into account when thinking about the calculation.
Bottom line, for a 1 degree angle you need a tilt of 0.279" over 16".
That's measurable, but you need a post 90* off the floor to measure from.
Second note: Side (a) the tilt at the top (mm or inches), Side (b) is
perpendicular to the floor, Side (c) would be the tilt of the wheel.
Angle (a) is the degrees of the angle you set.

Mikek

Ed Pawlowski actually said:

I've done wheel alignment in my garage

What we don't want is advice from people who would never contemplate doing
a camber measurement at home.

We want advice from people who have actually checked camber at home:
http://i.cubeupload.com/XocXQ9.jpg

All the advice from tlvp, for example, of why he would NOT to check his
camber at home is and was already known before he posted anything. He added
negative value to this thread.

Since he would never do it, he has never thought about how to do it, and
since he not only knows not how to do it, but more importantly, he has
never done it, so his advice not to do it doesn't help anyone.

He simply wasted everyone's time with his fear-filled response.

Likewise, you waste everyone's time with your I-won't-tell-you response.
If you're not going to tell anyone anything, then why bother responding?

Besides, you only pretend to have done it, which is fine, but you playing
make believe doesn't help anyone here. I knew all this would happen,
because most people are utterly horrified at the mere thought of checking
camber at home so I was trying to avoid having to respond to comments like
yours and tlvp's which simply waste everyone's time.

Based on these specs ( http://i.cubeupload.com/cfaDWp.jpg) the measurement
range is plus or minus 3 degrees to an accuracy of plus or minus one
minute.

If we can't achieve one minute of accuracy out of a mobile device, what
*is* the accuracy thqt we *can* achieve out of a mobile device?

amdx actually said:

You have a misunderstanding, to figure millimeter or inches,
you need to have two lines that are connected like a below,

l****/
l /
l /
l /
l/
The angle between l and /, we will call 1/60 of a degree,
the **** is the millimeters or inches, BUT, the quantity of millimeters
or inches depends on the length of l, as you can see the longer l the
larger **** will be. But the angle stays the same.

Nice graphic!

To your point, I completely agree that I'm utterly confused when it comes
to "toe" angles.

It was my mistake to ever bring in the concept of "toe" to this discussion
because, while measuring toe with a tape measure at home is relatively easy
(once the mechanical overhang problem is solved), *converting* the damn
manufacturer's spec from angles to inches is the *confusion* I have.

Here is the toe spec for a similar vehicle to mine:
http://i.cubeupload.com/RubZhV.gif

Notice that the "total toe" spec is 0 degrees 14 minutes plus or minus 10
minutes.

Also notice that the measurement accuracy for "total wheel toe" is also
given in similar units of a measuring accuracy of plus or minus two minutes
in a measuring range of plus or minus two degrees within a measuring range
of plus or minus 18 degrees.
http://i.cubeupload.com/cfaDWp.jpg

I admit I'm confused.
My dilemma is understanding how to *measure* to that spec.

actually said:

You REALLY need to study your high-school math.

This off-topic confusion is all my fault.

I should never have brought toe into this discussion because toe is easily
done at home when you have specs that are in linear dimensions such as
inches but not so easily understood when you have toe specs in angles.
http://i.cubeupload.com/RubZhV.gif
http://i.cubeupload.com/cfaDWp.jpg

Clearly I'm confused how to do the conversion.