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Pat D.
 
Posts: n/a
Default Tech: B&K 465 conversion help needed. Long post

Please excuse the length of the post. This is my first post here. I also
posted this in RGVAC in the hopes of finding someone who has done a similar
conversion. Any help would be appreciated. To respond directly, please
remove the obvious from my e-mail address.


Boy, I'm having a tough time with this one. I'm posting this information to
collect it all in one area in the hopes of helping others with similar
problems. If any information in here is incorrect, please let me know and I
will fix it. I will then post photos etc. of my conversion and testing to
assist others in the RGVAC community. I will not be using this to test
anything other than arcade monitors and tubes stolen from TV sets. Try to
stick with me here. The information gets a little confusing. You have to
realize, I'm doing this to save a few bucks and probably will end up
spending more than I care to. You don't necessarily have to read this whole
thing. My specific questions are listed towards the end of the post. So if
you have all the answers, jump right to the end. Thanks in advance.

Bought a B&K 465 (dated 1966) to restore my worn arcade tubes and check the
color guns etc. It was fairly cheap so I figured, what the heck, give it a
shot. I realize now the easiest thing to do would have been to purchase a
467 or later model but I have two of these now and really don't want to buy
a third unless I have to.

I have been Googling for several hours now and know all sorts of stuff about
rejuvenators etc. but still cannot figure this out. My goal is to somehow
hardwire my B&K 465 to a 12 pin molex connector to use the CR-23 adaptor as
well as the CR-31. I realize the SP-65 was a special adaptor made for the
465 to allow it to use the later model adaptors (SP-66 for the 466) but B&K
doesn't have them anymore and there is no pinout information that I can find
outlining how to make one. One of the setup charts I have states that the
SP-65 allows you to select different color guns by leaving the B/W -R-G-B
switch in the R position and selecting the guns with the SP-65. According
to previous posts from way back, (Matt Osborn 8/15/2002) this is the info
available on this particular model.

With the grey-shielded wiring bundle currently hard-wired to the 465 case
and the round, hard-wired adapter stock to the 465, this is the pinout
according to early sources: (Matt Osborn) {Please note: I'm not 100
percent this is correct as listed. See my comments}

pin 1 (red) - heater
pin 2 (brown) - G1-G ( I think this is really G1 special)
pin 3 - NC
pin 4 (orange) - GK (I believe this is G1-G)
pin 5 - NC
pin 6 - NC
pin 7 (yellow) - G2-R (I believe this is RK)
pin 8 (purple) - G1-B (I believe this is GK)
pin 9 (blue) - G2-B (I believe this is BK)
pin 10 (white) - RK (I believe this is G3,G4 whatever that is)
pin 11 (green) - BK, G1-R, G2-G ??? (I believe this is K special-- again
don't know what that is)
pin 12 - heater

I'd like to hardwire this grey harness to a 12 pin molex connector to be
able to use the later model adapters like the CR23 and CR31. According to
follow-up posts, this is the hardwire pinout according to "Robert Henderson"
provided to Matt. Again, I cannot verify this information's accuracy.

465 to CR23 round adapter (not the molex pin numbers)

Pin 1 - Pin 9 (heater)

Pin 2 - NC

Pin 3 - NC

Pin 4 - Pin 5 (G1)

Pin 5 - NC

Pin 6 - NC

Pin 7 - Pin 8 (red cathode)

Pin 8 - Pin 6 (green cathode)

Pin 9 - Pin 11 (blue cathode)

Pin 10 - Pins 1, 7 (G3, G2)

Pin 11 - NC

Pin 12 - Pin 10 (heater)


So, that begs the question: What do I do with pins 2 and 11 from the
original harness? (Brown and green) Do I trace them back to the tester and
remove them? Tape them up and leave them? I know I will have to run a
jumper from pin 10 (465) to the pins of the molex connector that correspond
to Pins 1 and 7 of the CR23 in order for this to work.(that would be Molex
pins 10 and 12 for the CR23 but probably also 9 and 11 for other adapters.
Correct me if I am wrong)

My limited understanding for the change from the 465 to the 466/467 was the
change in design of the color picture tubes being made at that time. I have
a tech letter from B&K that outlines the steps necessary to convert the 465
Tester and the adapter to test "newer model picture tubes" but can see that
it was not done to this particular unit. I purchased a second unit (1968
vintage) and it has only had half the conversion done to it. However, it
has a different wiring harness on it (a thicker black rubberized cable with
a rubberized connector on the end. It is also interesting to note that the
color socket tester CR-61 has different color wiring than the earlier model
socket adapters. It is a rubbery plug vs. the hard plastic type round plugs
found with the earlier model) Included with the 2nd 465 is a letter with the
following info:

"Test cable 522-032-9-001 is now obsolete. Test cable 523-039-9-001 will
work on this model if wired as follows.

socket pin # Obsolete cable color
Alternate Cable color

1 Red
orange/blk white/black black/white

2 Brown
white

4 Orange
Green

7 Yellow
Red/Black

8 Violet
Green/Black

9 Blue
Blue/Black

10 White
Orange

11 Green
Black

12 Black
Blue/White Green/White Red/White

Note: The Red and Blue Wires in the alternate cable are not used

dated 12/14/78 #2022 "

I believe this tester to have the new cable installed. The colors match the
466 colors used in the conversion chart listed a few paragraphs down.
Interesting to note is that the "red and Blue Wires are not used" These
would correspond to the G1 red and the G1 blu connections for the molex
connector.

A letter from B&K included with tester number 1 states that you need to
jumper each position of the R-G-B test switch together and then run a
resistor from each position of the back side of the switch to another
resistor. I quote:

"......Due to some changes in color picture tubes available in the field, we
find that the 465 can be updated to meet the new requirements. This is
being done in production now. In the event that you want to bring your own
465 up-to-date, we are detailing the change for you. ......

The modifications necessary to enable the Model 465 to test all the latest
CRT's as accurately as possible a

1. Rewire the color socket assembly, each socket has a green wire on pin
No. 9. This wire must be clipped so at least 2 inches of wire is left
connected to pin No. 9. This will disconnect pin No. 9 from any other pin.
Strip 1/4 inch of insulation from the white wires approximately 1 inch from
both sockets without cutting the wires and solder the green wires from Pin
No. 9 to the white wires, tape these connections. Each socket will have its
connection from pin No. 9 to the white wire from the socket.{Interesting
note, my color sockets do not have a green wire on Pin 9. They are on pin 7
of the small color and Pin 6 of the large color adapter. What's more, there
is no white wire on either color socket assembly. This is driving me batty}

2. Remove the tester from the cabinet and locate the slide switch marked
"Color", there is a violet, white, yellow and grey wire connected to this
switch, add a jumper wire to connect all together.

To each of the terminals on the switch with the blue, orange and brown wire
connect a 9.1 megohm resistor with approximately 1 inch lead length.
Connect all three resistors to the terminal strip along side of the switch,
to junction with a grey wire and an 82K, 2W resistor."

A drawing is provided but it is a little light in printing after 25+ years.
I could try to scan it for posting if needed.

I contacted B&K and they provided me with the following information to
convert 466 CRT testers. They told me I could use it for earlier models as
well. Unfortunately, I believe he was mistaken as the 465 probably needs
the mod mentioned above and the wire colors listed don't correspond to their
chart. For those interested in modding their 466 unit, these should work.
They are taken from page -63- of some sort of B&K manual.

466 wire 466 Round connector
467/490 Rectangular Molex Connector

wht/blk & blk/wht--orng/blk 1
1 Heater

blu/wht grn/wht & red/wht 12
2 Heater

red 3
3 G1 red

grn 4
4 G1 grn

blu 5
5 G1 blu

red/blk 7
6 K red

grn/bl 8
7 K grn

blu/blk 9
8 K blu

G1 special white 2 No
connection


6 nc

K special black 11 nc

orange 10
(wired to 4 sockets)----- 9 G2 red,10 G2 grn,11 G2 blu,12 G3,G4


Finally, comparing the two 465 testers I have side by side, the only obvious
differences I can see in the tester's wiring etc. are the 3 resistors
mentioned in the service letter. The wiring on the back side of the R-G-B
switch is not connected together per the letter. I am wondering if the
SP-65 adapter accomplished the same thing? Without one to look at, I cannot
say. Does anyone out there know what the SP-65 did besides switch from
round to Molex? Did the SP-65 only work with the later model cable?


This is all I have. If anyone can tell me these four things with a high
degree of certainty, I would be more than willing to purchase a case of
their favorite brew.

Question 1: Can I somehow splice a three position switch in line with my
original socket pin 4 (orange) and then run lines to Molex pins 3, 4, and 5
to allow me to test the corresponding color guns? This is assuming I have
my information correct. If so, any special requirements for the switch?
Could you explain to me how to wire it?

Question 2: What did connecting the 3 positions of the R-G-B switch with
jumpers and resistors accomplish? I'm no electronics expert by any means
but I believe it basically turned the 3-way switch on the unit into a
1-position switch and transferred the switching to the SP-65 for newer model
tubes. It also allowed the unit to still be used with older color tube sets
by using the resistors to reduce the current by basically 1/3 of the
combined values of the three co-joined positions. (I know, this is probably
wrong but I told you I wasn't an engineer).

Question 3: Assuming I am correct in Question 1, do I need to make the
jumper/resistor modification in order to make these 465's work properly
using the rewired cable with the additional switch to the molex connector if
I leave the switch in the "R" position? What to do with wires 2 and 11
(Brown and Green) from the original harness? I don't plan on testing old
color TV tubes or anything else for that matter.

Question 4: Am I an idiot for spending so much time on this project ?
(Probably over 20 hours so far)

This has certainly proved to be an informative endeavor and if anything
else, I learned that not all bargains are truly a bargain. I anxiously
await some hearty discussion. I can post photos of anything if that would
help. I also have 465 wiring diagrams.


Thanks

Pat D.


  #2   Report Post  
Pat D.
 
Posts: n/a
Default B&K 465 conversion help needed. Long post

I apologize for the formatting of the last bit of information in the
listing. Apprently the
info wrapped around to the next line making it somewhat difficult to
decipher. I'm
reposting that portion to make it more readable.

I contacted B&K and they provided me with the following information to
convert 466 CRT testers. They told me I could use it for earlier models as
well. Unfortunately, I believe he was mistaken as the 465 probably needs
the mod mentioned above and the wire colors listed don't correspond to their
chart. For those interested in modding their 466 unit, these should work.
They are taken from page -63- of some sort of B&K manual.

466 wire 466 Round connector 467/490 Molex
Conn.

wht/blk,blk/wht,orng/blk 1 1
Heater

blu/wht,grn/wht,red/wht 12 2
Heater

red 3
3 G1 red

grn 4
4 G1 grn

blu 5
5 G1 blu

red/blk 7
6 K red

grn/bl 8
7 K grn

blu/blk 9
8 K blu

G1 special white 2 NC

6 NC

K special black 11 NC

orange 10 (wired to 4 sockets) 9 G2 red,10
G2 grn,

11 G2 blu,12 G3,G4




Pat D.




  #3   Report Post  
BOB URZ
 
Posts: n/a
Default Tech: B&K 465 conversion help needed. Long post



"Pat D." wrote:

Please excuse the length of the post. This is my first post here. I also
posted this in RGVAC in the hopes of finding someone who has done a similar
conversion. Any help would be appreciated. To respond directly, please
remove the obvious from my e-mail address.

Boy, I'm having a tough time with this one. I'm posting this information to
collect it all in one area in the hopes of helping others with similar
problems. If any information in here is incorrect, please let me know and I
will fix it. I will then post photos etc. of my conversion and testing to
assist others in the RGVAC community. I will not be using this to test
anything other than arcade monitors and tubes stolen from TV sets. Try to
stick with me here. The information gets a little confusing. You have to
realize, I'm doing this to save a few bucks and probably will end up
spending more than I care to. You don't necessarily have to read this whole
thing. My specific questions are listed towards the end of the post. So if
you have all the answers, jump right to the end. Thanks in advance.

Bought a B&K 465 (dated 1966) to restore my worn arcade tubes and check the
color guns etc. It was fairly cheap so I figured, what the heck, give it a
shot. I realize now the easiest thing to do would have been to purchase a
467 or later model but I have two of these now and really don't want to buy
a third unless I have to.

I have been Googling for several hours now and know all sorts of stuff about
rejuvenators etc. but still cannot figure this out. My goal is to somehow
hardwire my B&K 465 to a 12 pin molex connector to use the CR-23 adaptor as
well as the CR-31. I realize the SP-65 was a special adaptor made for the
465 to allow it to use the later model adaptors (SP-66 for the 466) but B&K
doesn't have them anymore and there is no pinout information that I can find
outlining how to make one. One of the setup charts I have states that the
SP-65 allows you to select different color guns by leaving the B/W -R-G-B
switch in the R position and selecting the guns with the SP-65. According
to previous posts from way back, (Matt Osborn 8/15/2002) this is the info
available on this particular model.

With the grey-shielded wiring bundle currently hard-wired to the 465 case
and the round, hard-wired adapter stock to the 465, this is the pinout
according to early sources: (Matt Osborn) {Please note: I'm not 100
percent this is correct as listed. See my comments}

pin 1 (red) - heater
pin 2 (brown) - G1-G ( I think this is really G1 special)
pin 3 - NC
pin 4 (orange) - GK (I believe this is G1-G)
pin 5 - NC
pin 6 - NC
pin 7 (yellow) - G2-R (I believe this is RK)
pin 8 (purple) - G1-B (I believe this is GK)
pin 9 (blue) - G2-B (I believe this is BK)
pin 10 (white) - RK (I believe this is G3,G4 whatever that is)
pin 11 (green) - BK, G1-R, G2-G ??? (I believe this is K special-- again
don't know what that is)
pin 12 - heater

I'd like to hardwire this grey harness to a 12 pin molex connector to be
able to use the later model adapters like the CR23 and CR31. According to
follow-up posts, this is the hardwire pinout according to "Robert Henderson"
provided to Matt. Again, I cannot verify this information's accuracy.

465 to CR23 round adapter (not the molex pin numbers)

Pin 1 - Pin 9 (heater)

Pin 2 - NC

Pin 3 - NC

Pin 4 - Pin 5 (G1)

Pin 5 - NC

Pin 6 - NC

Pin 7 - Pin 8 (red cathode)

Pin 8 - Pin 6 (green cathode)

Pin 9 - Pin 11 (blue cathode)

Pin 10 - Pins 1, 7 (G3, G2)

Pin 11 - NC

Pin 12 - Pin 10 (heater)

So, that begs the question: What do I do with pins 2 and 11 from the
original harness? (Brown and green) Do I trace them back to the tester and
remove them? Tape them up and leave them? I know I will have to run a
jumper from pin 10 (465) to the pins of the molex connector that correspond
to Pins 1 and 7 of the CR23 in order for this to work.(that would be Molex
pins 10 and 12 for the CR23 but probably also 9 and 11 for other adapters.
Correct me if I am wrong)

My limited understanding for the change from the 465 to the 466/467 was the
change in design of the color picture tubes being made at that time. I have
a tech letter from B&K that outlines the steps necessary to convert the 465
Tester and the adapter to test "newer model picture tubes" but can see that
it was not done to this particular unit. I purchased a second unit (1968
vintage) and it has only had half the conversion done to it. However, it
has a different wiring harness on it (a thicker black rubberized cable with
a rubberized connector on the end. It is also interesting to note that the
color socket tester CR-61 has different color wiring than the earlier model
socket adapters. It is a rubbery plug vs. the hard plastic type round plugs
found with the earlier model) Included with the 2nd 465 is a letter with the
following info:

"Test cable 522-032-9-001 is now obsolete. Test cable 523-039-9-001 will
work on this model if wired as follows.

socket pin # Obsolete cable color
Alternate Cable color

1 Red
orange/blk white/black black/white

2 Brown
white

4 Orange
Green

7 Yellow
Red/Black

8 Violet
Green/Black

9 Blue
Blue/Black

10 White
Orange

11 Green
Black

12 Black
Blue/White Green/White Red/White

Note: The Red and Blue Wires in the alternate cable are not used

dated 12/14/78 #2022 "

I believe this tester to have the new cable installed. The colors match the
466 colors used in the conversion chart listed a few paragraphs down.
Interesting to note is that the "red and Blue Wires are not used" These
would correspond to the G1 red and the G1 blu connections for the molex
connector.

A letter from B&K included with tester number 1 states that you need to
jumper each position of the R-G-B test switch together and then run a
resistor from each position of the back side of the switch to another
resistor. I quote:

"......Due to some changes in color picture tubes available in the field, we
find that the 465 can be updated to meet the new requirements. This is
being done in production now. In the event that you want to bring your own
465 up-to-date, we are detailing the change for you. ......

The modifications necessary to enable the Model 465 to test all the latest
CRT's as accurately as possible a

1. Rewire the color socket assembly, each socket has a green wire on pin
No. 9. This wire must be clipped so at least 2 inches of wire is left
connected to pin No. 9. This will disconnect pin No. 9 from any other pin.
Strip 1/4 inch of insulation from the white wires approximately 1 inch from
both sockets without cutting the wires and solder the green wires from Pin
No. 9 to the white wires, tape these connections. Each socket will have its
connection from pin No. 9 to the white wire from the socket.{Interesting
note, my color sockets do not have a green wire on Pin 9. They are on pin 7
of the small color and Pin 6 of the large color adapter. What's more, there
is no white wire on either color socket assembly. This is driving me batty}

2. Remove the tester from the cabinet and locate the slide switch marked
"Color", there is a violet, white, yellow and grey wire connected to this
switch, add a jumper wire to connect all together.

To each of the terminals on the switch with the blue, orange and brown wire
connect a 9.1 megohm resistor with approximately 1 inch lead length.
Connect all three resistors to the terminal strip along side of the switch,
to junction with a grey wire and an 82K, 2W resistor."

A drawing is provided but it is a little light in printing after 25+ years.
I could try to scan it for posting if needed.

I contacted B&K and they provided me with the following information to
convert 466 CRT testers. They told me I could use it for earlier models as
well. Unfortunately, I believe he was mistaken as the 465 probably needs
the mod mentioned above and the wire colors listed don't correspond to their
chart. For those interested in modding their 466 unit, these should work.
They are taken from page -63- of some sort of B&K manual.

466 wire 466 Round connector
467/490 Rectangular Molex Connector

wht/blk & blk/wht--orng/blk 1
1 Heater

blu/wht grn/wht & red/wht 12
2 Heater

red 3
3 G1 red

grn 4
4 G1 grn

blu 5
5 G1 blu

red/blk 7
6 K red

grn/bl 8
7 K grn

blu/blk 9
8 K blu

G1 special white 2 No
connection

6 nc

K special black 11 nc

orange 10
(wired to 4 sockets)----- 9 G2 red,10 G2 grn,11 G2 blu,12 G3,G4

Finally, comparing the two 465 testers I have side by side, the only obvious
differences I can see in the tester's wiring etc. are the 3 resistors
mentioned in the service letter. The wiring on the back side of the R-G-B
switch is not connected together per the letter. I am wondering if the
SP-65 adapter accomplished the same thing? Without one to look at, I cannot
say. Does anyone out there know what the SP-65 did besides switch from
round to Molex? Did the SP-65 only work with the later model cable?

This is all I have. If anyone can tell me these four things with a high
degree of certainty, I would be more than willing to purchase a case of
their favorite brew.

Question 1: Can I somehow splice a three position switch in line with my
original socket pin 4 (orange) and then run lines to Molex pins 3, 4, and 5
to allow me to test the corresponding color guns? This is assuming I have
my information correct. If so, any special requirements for the switch?
Could you explain to me how to wire it?

Question 2: What did connecting the 3 positions of the R-G-B switch with
jumpers and resistors accomplish? I'm no electronics expert by any means
but I believe it basically turned the 3-way switch on the unit into a
1-position switch and transferred the switching to the SP-65 for newer model
tubes. It also allowed the unit to still be used with older color tube sets
by using the resistors to reduce the current by basically 1/3 of the
combined values of the three co-joined positions. (I know, this is probably
wrong but I told you I wasn't an engineer).

Question 3: Assuming I am correct in Question 1, do I need to make the
jumper/resistor modification in order to make these 465's work properly
using the rewired cable with the additional switch to the molex connector if
I leave the switch in the "R" position? What to do with wires 2 and 11
(Brown and Green) from the original harness? I don't plan on testing old
color TV tubes or anything else for that matter.

Question 4: Am I an idiot for spending so much time on this project ?
(Probably over 20 hours so far)

This has certainly proved to be an informative endeavor and if anything
else, I learned that not all bargains are truly a bargain. I anxiously
await some hearty discussion. I can post photos of anything if that would
help. I also have 465 wiring diagrams.

Thanks

Pat D.


Some of those early BK checkers used a rejuvenation method more akin to a small
nuclear explosion rather than a measured rejuvenation.

I would be trying to find a older sencore (CR-70 or newer).
Sencore has special sockets with pigtails (or they used to)
to hook up to strange tubes. The sencore also has a staged rejuvenation that is
much more likely to help you rather than destroy the tube.

Bob



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  #4   Report Post  
JURB6006
 
Posts: n/a
Default Tech: B&K 465 conversion help needed. Long post

I agree with BOB, the rejuv is way too strong on the older units for the newer
CRTs. The cathodes are alot smaller and likely to "melt down".

If I can remember to do it, I can write down the levels and durations of the
rejuv settings on the CR7000, which is probably one of the best on the market.
They're given right on the case, i.e. restore-normal 1 ma 10 sec. and so forth.
While adapting the older machine to test the CRTs is fine, it may be easier to
actually build a circuit that emulates these levels and durations. You also
might have some luck in modifying the older machine to lower current levels
more in line for the newer cathodes.

The only thing the CR7000 sucks at is removing G1 shorts, it lets it cool down
first and the short is frequently gone. I have no idea why their engineers did
that, it renders the function near useless. I've already had to resort to other
methods, after spending over $1000 for the CR7000.

Also consider that when all three guns are soft, you get alot better and
usually longer lasting results by boosting the heater voltage. You don't need
fancy transformers, just jumping or changing the value of a resistor usually
does the trick. Since most filaments are powered by the flyback, you can add a
winding as long as you can get a piece of wire through the core, but you only
need to do this if the resistor value is already so low that jumping it
doesn''t give you enough boost. Also, if you deal with these units on a long
term, you can later restore the filament voltage to normal and proceed to rejuv
the CRT. Right in Sencore's book it says "restoration/rejuvination is a
subtractive process" and proceeds to tell you to use the lowest level nessecary
to do the job.

Good luck at any rate.

JURB
  #5   Report Post  
Pat D.
 
Posts: n/a
Default B&K 465 conversion help needed. Long post

Well, it still doesn't show up correctly in my newsreader .

Pat




  #6   Report Post  
Pat D.
 
Posts: n/a
Default Tech: B&K 465 conversion help needed. Long post

Thanks guys. I'll monkey around with it on a really bad tube that I'm going
to junk anyway and see what I get. I may have to resort to the newer model
as you stated to rejuv these tubes. I hate to fry anything.

Pat


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