Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems.

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Old October 13th 03, 07:40 AM
Thurston Phoremost
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fridge motor stuck

I have a cyclic defrost fridge in near-new condition which was given
to me, the only problem was the defrost element open circuit.

Well, that fridge has been sitting there for a year, and now that I
decide to fix it, I find the compressor won't start. She hums, likea
the buzzy bee, then the overtemp protector clicks out.

Question - I know that the fridge mechs have a device that they
connect up to send a bit of a boost thru the compressor to unstick it,
but I'm a bit tight, and if I can rig up a relay and/or a capacitor
and/or a triac and/or an instantaneous switch or whatever to do it
myself, I will.

What's the general principle of it? Am I correct in assuming that the
idea is to connect a capacitor across the inductance of the start
winding to make a LC circuit whose resonant freq is close to mains
freq, so that you can get a lot of current flowing for a small
fraction of a second?

So... how do I make one of these gizmos? Can't be too hard, surely?

T.

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Old October 13th 03, 12:06 PM
Rheilly Phoull
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fridge motor stuck


"Thurston Phoremost" wrote in message
om...
I have a cyclic defrost fridge in near-new condition which was given
to me, the only problem was the defrost element open circuit.

Well, that fridge has been sitting there for a year, and now that I
decide to fix it, I find the compressor won't start. She hums, likea
the buzzy bee, then the overtemp protector clicks out.

Question - I know that the fridge mechs have a device that they
connect up to send a bit of a boost thru the compressor to unstick it,
but I'm a bit tight, and if I can rig up a relay and/or a capacitor
and/or a triac and/or an instantaneous switch or whatever to do it
myself, I will.

What's the general principle of it? Am I correct in assuming that the
idea is to connect a capacitor across the inductance of the start
winding to make a LC circuit whose resonant freq is close to mains
freq, so that you can get a lot of current flowing for a small
fraction of a second?

So... how do I make one of these gizmos? Can't be too hard, surely?

T.

Put the cap in series with the winding, note that start caps don't need the
full mains rating since they are in circuit for such a small time. See if
you can find one about 250 uF and about half your local mains voltage. You
can turn off the power if it doesn't get away in a second or so. Might take
a few "Hits".

--
Regards ............... Rheilly Phoull


  #3   Report Post  
Old October 13th 03, 12:06 PM
Rheilly Phoull
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fridge motor stuck


"Thurston Phoremost" wrote in message
om...
I have a cyclic defrost fridge in near-new condition which was given
to me, the only problem was the defrost element open circuit.

Well, that fridge has been sitting there for a year, and now that I
decide to fix it, I find the compressor won't start. She hums, likea
the buzzy bee, then the overtemp protector clicks out.

Question - I know that the fridge mechs have a device that they
connect up to send a bit of a boost thru the compressor to unstick it,
but I'm a bit tight, and if I can rig up a relay and/or a capacitor
and/or a triac and/or an instantaneous switch or whatever to do it
myself, I will.

What's the general principle of it? Am I correct in assuming that the
idea is to connect a capacitor across the inductance of the start
winding to make a LC circuit whose resonant freq is close to mains
freq, so that you can get a lot of current flowing for a small
fraction of a second?

So... how do I make one of these gizmos? Can't be too hard, surely?

T.

Put the cap in series with the winding, note that start caps don't need the
full mains rating since they are in circuit for such a small time. See if
you can find one about 250 uF and about half your local mains voltage. You
can turn off the power if it doesn't get away in a second or so. Might take
a few "Hits".

--
Regards ............... Rheilly Phoull


  #4   Report Post  
Old October 13th 03, 02:23 PM
Sam Goldwasser
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fridge motor stuck

"Rheilly Phoull" writes:

"Thurston Phoremost" wrote in message
om...
I have a cyclic defrost fridge in near-new condition which was given
to me, the only problem was the defrost element open circuit.

Well, that fridge has been sitting there for a year, and now that I
decide to fix it, I find the compressor won't start. She hums, likea
the buzzy bee, then the overtemp protector clicks out.

Question - I know that the fridge mechs have a device that they
connect up to send a bit of a boost thru the compressor to unstick it,
but I'm a bit tight, and if I can rig up a relay and/or a capacitor
and/or a triac and/or an instantaneous switch or whatever to do it
myself, I will.

What's the general principle of it? Am I correct in assuming that the
idea is to connect a capacitor across the inductance of the start
winding to make a LC circuit whose resonant freq is close to mains
freq, so that you can get a lot of current flowing for a small
fraction of a second?

So... how do I make one of these gizmos? Can't be too hard, surely?


And if you do it incorrectly, you've fried the compressor motor and turned
your fridge into a plant stand. You really don't even know if the
motor is stuck. Maybe the starting relay is stuck. Have a professional
look at it. Really!

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ Home Page: http://www.repairfaq.org/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Site Info: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

Important: The email address in this message header may no longer work. To
contact me, please use the Feedback Form at repairfaq.org. Thanks.



T.

Put the cap in series with the winding, note that start caps don't need the
full mains rating since they are in circuit for such a small time. See if
you can find one about 250 uF and about half your local mains voltage. You
can turn off the power if it doesn't get away in a second or so. Might take
a few "Hits".

--
Regards ............... Rheilly Phoull

  #5   Report Post  
Old October 13th 03, 02:23 PM
Sam Goldwasser
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fridge motor stuck

"Rheilly Phoull" writes:

"Thurston Phoremost" wrote in message
om...
I have a cyclic defrost fridge in near-new condition which was given
to me, the only problem was the defrost element open circuit.

Well, that fridge has been sitting there for a year, and now that I
decide to fix it, I find the compressor won't start. She hums, likea
the buzzy bee, then the overtemp protector clicks out.

Question - I know that the fridge mechs have a device that they
connect up to send a bit of a boost thru the compressor to unstick it,
but I'm a bit tight, and if I can rig up a relay and/or a capacitor
and/or a triac and/or an instantaneous switch or whatever to do it
myself, I will.

What's the general principle of it? Am I correct in assuming that the
idea is to connect a capacitor across the inductance of the start
winding to make a LC circuit whose resonant freq is close to mains
freq, so that you can get a lot of current flowing for a small
fraction of a second?

So... how do I make one of these gizmos? Can't be too hard, surely?


And if you do it incorrectly, you've fried the compressor motor and turned
your fridge into a plant stand. You really don't even know if the
motor is stuck. Maybe the starting relay is stuck. Have a professional
look at it. Really!

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ Home Page: http://www.repairfaq.org/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Site Info: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

Important: The email address in this message header may no longer work. To
contact me, please use the Feedback Form at repairfaq.org. Thanks.



T.

Put the cap in series with the winding, note that start caps don't need the
full mains rating since they are in circuit for such a small time. See if
you can find one about 250 uF and about half your local mains voltage. You
can turn off the power if it doesn't get away in a second or so. Might take
a few "Hits".

--
Regards ............... Rheilly Phoull



  #6   Report Post  
Old October 13th 03, 04:11 PM
BOB URZ
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fridge motor stuck



Sam Goldwasser wrote:

"Rheilly Phoull" writes:

"Thurston Phoremost" wrote in message
om...
I have a cyclic defrost fridge in near-new condition which was given
to me, the only problem was the defrost element open circuit.

Well, that fridge has been sitting there for a year, and now that I
decide to fix it, I find the compressor won't start. She hums, likea
the buzzy bee, then the overtemp protector clicks out.

Question - I know that the fridge mechs have a device that they
connect up to send a bit of a boost thru the compressor to unstick it,
but I'm a bit tight, and if I can rig up a relay and/or a capacitor
and/or a triac and/or an instantaneous switch or whatever to do it
myself, I will.

What's the general principle of it? Am I correct in assuming that the
idea is to connect a capacitor across the inductance of the start
winding to make a LC circuit whose resonant freq is close to mains
freq, so that you can get a lot of current flowing for a small
fraction of a second?

So... how do I make one of these gizmos? Can't be too hard, surely?


And if you do it incorrectly, you've fried the compressor motor and turned
your fridge into a plant stand. You really don't even know if the
motor is stuck. Maybe the starting relay is stuck. Have a professional
look at it. Really!

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ Home Page: http://www.repairfaq.org/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Site Info: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

Important: The email address in this message header may no longer work. To
contact me, please use the Feedback Form at repairfaq.org. Thanks.

T.

Put the cap in series with the winding, note that start caps don't need the
full mains rating since they are in circuit for such a small time. See if
you can find one about 250 uF and about half your local mains voltage. You
can turn off the power if it doesn't get away in a second or so. Might take
a few "Hits".

--
Regards ............... Rheilly Phoull


Do a web search on "hard start kit" and supco.
chances are that if you replaced the cap in the start circuit, the
compressor is bad.

Another thought, did you move the refrigerator recently?
You should not start it up for at least 24 hours if it was moved
and tipped.

BOB



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http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
  #7   Report Post  
Old October 13th 03, 04:11 PM
BOB URZ
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fridge motor stuck



Sam Goldwasser wrote:

"Rheilly Phoull" writes:

"Thurston Phoremost" wrote in message
om...
I have a cyclic defrost fridge in near-new condition which was given
to me, the only problem was the defrost element open circuit.

Well, that fridge has been sitting there for a year, and now that I
decide to fix it, I find the compressor won't start. She hums, likea
the buzzy bee, then the overtemp protector clicks out.

Question - I know that the fridge mechs have a device that they
connect up to send a bit of a boost thru the compressor to unstick it,
but I'm a bit tight, and if I can rig up a relay and/or a capacitor
and/or a triac and/or an instantaneous switch or whatever to do it
myself, I will.

What's the general principle of it? Am I correct in assuming that the
idea is to connect a capacitor across the inductance of the start
winding to make a LC circuit whose resonant freq is close to mains
freq, so that you can get a lot of current flowing for a small
fraction of a second?

So... how do I make one of these gizmos? Can't be too hard, surely?


And if you do it incorrectly, you've fried the compressor motor and turned
your fridge into a plant stand. You really don't even know if the
motor is stuck. Maybe the starting relay is stuck. Have a professional
look at it. Really!

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ Home Page: http://www.repairfaq.org/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Site Info: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

Important: The email address in this message header may no longer work. To
contact me, please use the Feedback Form at repairfaq.org. Thanks.

T.

Put the cap in series with the winding, note that start caps don't need the
full mains rating since they are in circuit for such a small time. See if
you can find one about 250 uF and about half your local mains voltage. You
can turn off the power if it doesn't get away in a second or so. Might take
a few "Hits".

--
Regards ............... Rheilly Phoull


Do a web search on "hard start kit" and supco.
chances are that if you replaced the cap in the start circuit, the
compressor is bad.

Another thought, did you move the refrigerator recently?
You should not start it up for at least 24 hours if it was moved
and tipped.

BOB



-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
  #8   Report Post  
Old October 13th 03, 04:38 PM
Bennett Price
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fridge motor stuck

Is the fridge out in a freezing cold garage? If so, let the compressor
warm up to room temp and then give it a try. It may be the oil mixed
in with the refrigerant has become waxlike.

Thurston Phoremost wrote:
I have a cyclic defrost fridge in near-new condition which was given
to me, the only problem was the defrost element open circuit.

Well, that fridge has been sitting there for a year, and now that I
decide to fix it, I find the compressor won't start. She hums, likea
the buzzy bee, then the overtemp protector clicks out.

Question - I know that the fridge mechs have a device that they
connect up to send a bit of a boost thru the compressor to unstick it,
but I'm a bit tight, and if I can rig up a relay and/or a capacitor
and/or a triac and/or an instantaneous switch or whatever to do it
myself, I will.

What's the general principle of it? Am I correct in assuming that the
idea is to connect a capacitor across the inductance of the start
winding to make a LC circuit whose resonant freq is close to mains
freq, so that you can get a lot of current flowing for a small
fraction of a second?

So... how do I make one of these gizmos? Can't be too hard, surely?

T.


  #9   Report Post  
Old October 13th 03, 04:38 PM
Bennett Price
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fridge motor stuck

Is the fridge out in a freezing cold garage? If so, let the compressor
warm up to room temp and then give it a try. It may be the oil mixed
in with the refrigerant has become waxlike.

Thurston Phoremost wrote:
I have a cyclic defrost fridge in near-new condition which was given
to me, the only problem was the defrost element open circuit.

Well, that fridge has been sitting there for a year, and now that I
decide to fix it, I find the compressor won't start. She hums, likea
the buzzy bee, then the overtemp protector clicks out.

Question - I know that the fridge mechs have a device that they
connect up to send a bit of a boost thru the compressor to unstick it,
but I'm a bit tight, and if I can rig up a relay and/or a capacitor
and/or a triac and/or an instantaneous switch or whatever to do it
myself, I will.

What's the general principle of it? Am I correct in assuming that the
idea is to connect a capacitor across the inductance of the start
winding to make a LC circuit whose resonant freq is close to mains
freq, so that you can get a lot of current flowing for a small
fraction of a second?

So... how do I make one of these gizmos? Can't be too hard, surely?

T.


  #10   Report Post  
Old October 14th 03, 12:38 AM
Thurston Phoremost
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fridge motor stuck

Sam Goldwasser wrote in message ...
"Rheilly Phoull" writes:

"Thurston Phoremost" wrote in message
om...
I have a cyclic defrost fridge in near-new condition which was given
to me, the only problem was the defrost element open circuit.

Well, that fridge has been sitting there for a year, and now that I
decide to fix it, I find the compressor won't start. She hums, likea
the buzzy bee, then the overtemp protector clicks out.

Question - I know that the fridge mechs have a device that they
connect up to send a bit of a boost thru the compressor to unstick it,
but I'm a bit tight, and if I can rig up a relay and/or a capacitor
and/or a triac and/or an instantaneous switch or whatever to do it
myself, I will.

What's the general principle of it? Am I correct in assuming that the
idea is to connect a capacitor across the inductance of the start
winding to make a LC circuit whose resonant freq is close to mains
freq, so that you can get a lot of current flowing for a small
fraction of a second?

So... how do I make one of these gizmos? Can't be too hard, surely?


And if you do it incorrectly, you've fried the compressor motor and turned
your fridge into a plant stand.


Yup. That's why I'm asking here, to get enough info so as I don't do
it incorrectly. I won't do anything till I have as much info as I can
get.


You really don't even know if the
motor is stuck. Maybe the starting relay is stuck. Have a professional
look at it. Really!


The relay looks like it can't be taken apart. I'd be interested to
know if anyone has ever tried to test these things with a dummy load,
for instance in the same way that you can use light bulbs as a dummy
load to test a SMPS?

Does an easily audible hum from the compressor
generally/probably/usually indicate that the start winding is getting
current? IOW, if only the run winding is getting power, would I still
get an easily audible hum?

If only the run winding in a stuck compressor was drawing current,
would this current generally/probably/usually be sufficient to trip
the safety switch, or is it only the start winding that has
sufficiently low impedance to cause it to trip?

This is the sort of info that I am after. TIA.


T


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