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| Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems. |
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Fridge motor stuck
I have a cyclic defrost fridge in near-new condition which was given
to me, the only problem was the defrost element open circuit. Well, that fridge has been sitting there for a year, and now that I decide to fix it, I find the compressor won't start. She hums, likea the buzzy bee, then the overtemp protector clicks out. Question - I know that the fridge mechs have a device that they connect up to send a bit of a boost thru the compressor to unstick it, but I'm a bit tight, and if I can rig up a relay and/or a capacitor and/or a triac and/or an instantaneous switch or whatever to do it myself, I will. What's the general principle of it? Am I correct in assuming that the idea is to connect a capacitor across the inductance of the start winding to make a LC circuit whose resonant freq is close to mains freq, so that you can get a lot of current flowing for a small fraction of a second? So... how do I make one of these gizmos? Can't be too hard, surely? T. |
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#2
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Fridge motor stuck
"Thurston Phoremost" wrote in message om... I have a cyclic defrost fridge in near-new condition which was given to me, the only problem was the defrost element open circuit. Well, that fridge has been sitting there for a year, and now that I decide to fix it, I find the compressor won't start. She hums, likea the buzzy bee, then the overtemp protector clicks out. Question - I know that the fridge mechs have a device that they connect up to send a bit of a boost thru the compressor to unstick it, but I'm a bit tight, and if I can rig up a relay and/or a capacitor and/or a triac and/or an instantaneous switch or whatever to do it myself, I will. What's the general principle of it? Am I correct in assuming that the idea is to connect a capacitor across the inductance of the start winding to make a LC circuit whose resonant freq is close to mains freq, so that you can get a lot of current flowing for a small fraction of a second? So... how do I make one of these gizmos? Can't be too hard, surely? T. Put the cap in series with the winding, note that start caps don't need the full mains rating since they are in circuit for such a small time. See if you can find one about 250 uF and about half your local mains voltage. You can turn off the power if it doesn't get away in a second or so. Might take a few "Hits". -- Regards ............... Rheilly Phoull |
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#3
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Fridge motor stuck
"Thurston Phoremost" wrote in message om... I have a cyclic defrost fridge in near-new condition which was given to me, the only problem was the defrost element open circuit. Well, that fridge has been sitting there for a year, and now that I decide to fix it, I find the compressor won't start. She hums, likea the buzzy bee, then the overtemp protector clicks out. Question - I know that the fridge mechs have a device that they connect up to send a bit of a boost thru the compressor to unstick it, but I'm a bit tight, and if I can rig up a relay and/or a capacitor and/or a triac and/or an instantaneous switch or whatever to do it myself, I will. What's the general principle of it? Am I correct in assuming that the idea is to connect a capacitor across the inductance of the start winding to make a LC circuit whose resonant freq is close to mains freq, so that you can get a lot of current flowing for a small fraction of a second? So... how do I make one of these gizmos? Can't be too hard, surely? T. Put the cap in series with the winding, note that start caps don't need the full mains rating since they are in circuit for such a small time. See if you can find one about 250 uF and about half your local mains voltage. You can turn off the power if it doesn't get away in a second or so. Might take a few "Hits". -- Regards ............... Rheilly Phoull |
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Fridge motor stuck
"Rheilly Phoull" writes:
"Thurston Phoremost" wrote in message om... I have a cyclic defrost fridge in near-new condition which was given to me, the only problem was the defrost element open circuit. Well, that fridge has been sitting there for a year, and now that I decide to fix it, I find the compressor won't start. She hums, likea the buzzy bee, then the overtemp protector clicks out. Question - I know that the fridge mechs have a device that they connect up to send a bit of a boost thru the compressor to unstick it, but I'm a bit tight, and if I can rig up a relay and/or a capacitor and/or a triac and/or an instantaneous switch or whatever to do it myself, I will. What's the general principle of it? Am I correct in assuming that the idea is to connect a capacitor across the inductance of the start winding to make a LC circuit whose resonant freq is close to mains freq, so that you can get a lot of current flowing for a small fraction of a second? So... how do I make one of these gizmos? Can't be too hard, surely? And if you do it incorrectly, you've fried the compressor motor and turned your fridge into a plant stand. You really don't even know if the motor is stuck. Maybe the starting relay is stuck. Have a professional look at it. Really! --- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ Home Page: http://www.repairfaq.org/ Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/ +Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm | Mirror Site Info: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html Important: The email address in this message header may no longer work. To contact me, please use the Feedback Form at repairfaq.org. Thanks. T. Put the cap in series with the winding, note that start caps don't need the full mains rating since they are in circuit for such a small time. See if you can find one about 250 uF and about half your local mains voltage. You can turn off the power if it doesn't get away in a second or so. Might take a few "Hits". -- Regards ............... Rheilly Phoull |
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Fridge motor stuck
"Rheilly Phoull" writes:
"Thurston Phoremost" wrote in message om... I have a cyclic defrost fridge in near-new condition which was given to me, the only problem was the defrost element open circuit. Well, that fridge has been sitting there for a year, and now that I decide to fix it, I find the compressor won't start. She hums, likea the buzzy bee, then the overtemp protector clicks out. Question - I know that the fridge mechs have a device that they connect up to send a bit of a boost thru the compressor to unstick it, but I'm a bit tight, and if I can rig up a relay and/or a capacitor and/or a triac and/or an instantaneous switch or whatever to do it myself, I will. What's the general principle of it? Am I correct in assuming that the idea is to connect a capacitor across the inductance of the start winding to make a LC circuit whose resonant freq is close to mains freq, so that you can get a lot of current flowing for a small fraction of a second? So... how do I make one of these gizmos? Can't be too hard, surely? And if you do it incorrectly, you've fried the compressor motor and turned your fridge into a plant stand. You really don't even know if the motor is stuck. Maybe the starting relay is stuck. Have a professional look at it. Really! --- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ Home Page: http://www.repairfaq.org/ Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/ +Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm | Mirror Site Info: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html Important: The email address in this message header may no longer work. To contact me, please use the Feedback Form at repairfaq.org. Thanks. T. Put the cap in series with the winding, note that start caps don't need the full mains rating since they are in circuit for such a small time. See if you can find one about 250 uF and about half your local mains voltage. You can turn off the power if it doesn't get away in a second or so. Might take a few "Hits". -- Regards ............... Rheilly Phoull |
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#6
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Fridge motor stuck
Sam Goldwasser wrote: "Rheilly Phoull" writes: "Thurston Phoremost" wrote in message om... I have a cyclic defrost fridge in near-new condition which was given to me, the only problem was the defrost element open circuit. Well, that fridge has been sitting there for a year, and now that I decide to fix it, I find the compressor won't start. She hums, likea the buzzy bee, then the overtemp protector clicks out. Question - I know that the fridge mechs have a device that they connect up to send a bit of a boost thru the compressor to unstick it, but I'm a bit tight, and if I can rig up a relay and/or a capacitor and/or a triac and/or an instantaneous switch or whatever to do it myself, I will. What's the general principle of it? Am I correct in assuming that the idea is to connect a capacitor across the inductance of the start winding to make a LC circuit whose resonant freq is close to mains freq, so that you can get a lot of current flowing for a small fraction of a second? So... how do I make one of these gizmos? Can't be too hard, surely? And if you do it incorrectly, you've fried the compressor motor and turned your fridge into a plant stand. You really don't even know if the motor is stuck. Maybe the starting relay is stuck. Have a professional look at it. Really! --- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ Home Page: http://www.repairfaq.org/ Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/ +Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm | Mirror Site Info: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html Important: The email address in this message header may no longer work. To contact me, please use the Feedback Form at repairfaq.org. Thanks. T. Put the cap in series with the winding, note that start caps don't need the full mains rating since they are in circuit for such a small time. See if you can find one about 250 uF and about half your local mains voltage. You can turn off the power if it doesn't get away in a second or so. Might take a few "Hits". -- Regards ............... Rheilly Phoull Do a web search on "hard start kit" and supco. chances are that if you replaced the cap in the start circuit, the compressor is bad. Another thought, did you move the refrigerator recently? You should not start it up for at least 24 hours if it was moved and tipped. BOB -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =----- |
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#7
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Fridge motor stuck
Sam Goldwasser wrote: "Rheilly Phoull" writes: "Thurston Phoremost" wrote in message om... I have a cyclic defrost fridge in near-new condition which was given to me, the only problem was the defrost element open circuit. Well, that fridge has been sitting there for a year, and now that I decide to fix it, I find the compressor won't start. She hums, likea the buzzy bee, then the overtemp protector clicks out. Question - I know that the fridge mechs have a device that they connect up to send a bit of a boost thru the compressor to unstick it, but I'm a bit tight, and if I can rig up a relay and/or a capacitor and/or a triac and/or an instantaneous switch or whatever to do it myself, I will. What's the general principle of it? Am I correct in assuming that the idea is to connect a capacitor across the inductance of the start winding to make a LC circuit whose resonant freq is close to mains freq, so that you can get a lot of current flowing for a small fraction of a second? So... how do I make one of these gizmos? Can't be too hard, surely? And if you do it incorrectly, you've fried the compressor motor and turned your fridge into a plant stand. You really don't even know if the motor is stuck. Maybe the starting relay is stuck. Have a professional look at it. Really! --- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ Home Page: http://www.repairfaq.org/ Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/ +Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm | Mirror Site Info: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html Important: The email address in this message header may no longer work. To contact me, please use the Feedback Form at repairfaq.org. Thanks. T. Put the cap in series with the winding, note that start caps don't need the full mains rating since they are in circuit for such a small time. See if you can find one about 250 uF and about half your local mains voltage. You can turn off the power if it doesn't get away in a second or so. Might take a few "Hits". -- Regards ............... Rheilly Phoull Do a web search on "hard start kit" and supco. chances are that if you replaced the cap in the start circuit, the compressor is bad. Another thought, did you move the refrigerator recently? You should not start it up for at least 24 hours if it was moved and tipped. BOB -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =----- |
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#8
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Fridge motor stuck
Is the fridge out in a freezing cold garage? If so, let the compressor
warm up to room temp and then give it a try. It may be the oil mixed in with the refrigerant has become waxlike. Thurston Phoremost wrote: I have a cyclic defrost fridge in near-new condition which was given to me, the only problem was the defrost element open circuit. Well, that fridge has been sitting there for a year, and now that I decide to fix it, I find the compressor won't start. She hums, likea the buzzy bee, then the overtemp protector clicks out. Question - I know that the fridge mechs have a device that they connect up to send a bit of a boost thru the compressor to unstick it, but I'm a bit tight, and if I can rig up a relay and/or a capacitor and/or a triac and/or an instantaneous switch or whatever to do it myself, I will. What's the general principle of it? Am I correct in assuming that the idea is to connect a capacitor across the inductance of the start winding to make a LC circuit whose resonant freq is close to mains freq, so that you can get a lot of current flowing for a small fraction of a second? So... how do I make one of these gizmos? Can't be too hard, surely? T. |
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#9
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Fridge motor stuck
Is the fridge out in a freezing cold garage? If so, let the compressor
warm up to room temp and then give it a try. It may be the oil mixed in with the refrigerant has become waxlike. Thurston Phoremost wrote: I have a cyclic defrost fridge in near-new condition which was given to me, the only problem was the defrost element open circuit. Well, that fridge has been sitting there for a year, and now that I decide to fix it, I find the compressor won't start. She hums, likea the buzzy bee, then the overtemp protector clicks out. Question - I know that the fridge mechs have a device that they connect up to send a bit of a boost thru the compressor to unstick it, but I'm a bit tight, and if I can rig up a relay and/or a capacitor and/or a triac and/or an instantaneous switch or whatever to do it myself, I will. What's the general principle of it? Am I correct in assuming that the idea is to connect a capacitor across the inductance of the start winding to make a LC circuit whose resonant freq is close to mains freq, so that you can get a lot of current flowing for a small fraction of a second? So... how do I make one of these gizmos? Can't be too hard, surely? T. |
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#10
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Fridge motor stuck
Sam Goldwasser wrote in message ...
"Rheilly Phoull" writes: "Thurston Phoremost" wrote in message om... I have a cyclic defrost fridge in near-new condition which was given to me, the only problem was the defrost element open circuit. Well, that fridge has been sitting there for a year, and now that I decide to fix it, I find the compressor won't start. She hums, likea the buzzy bee, then the overtemp protector clicks out. Question - I know that the fridge mechs have a device that they connect up to send a bit of a boost thru the compressor to unstick it, but I'm a bit tight, and if I can rig up a relay and/or a capacitor and/or a triac and/or an instantaneous switch or whatever to do it myself, I will. What's the general principle of it? Am I correct in assuming that the idea is to connect a capacitor across the inductance of the start winding to make a LC circuit whose resonant freq is close to mains freq, so that you can get a lot of current flowing for a small fraction of a second? So... how do I make one of these gizmos? Can't be too hard, surely? And if you do it incorrectly, you've fried the compressor motor and turned your fridge into a plant stand. Yup. That's why I'm asking here, to get enough info so as I don't do it incorrectly. I won't do anything till I have as much info as I can get. You really don't even know if the motor is stuck. Maybe the starting relay is stuck. Have a professional look at it. Really! The relay looks like it can't be taken apart. I'd be interested to know if anyone has ever tried to test these things with a dummy load, for instance in the same way that you can use light bulbs as a dummy load to test a SMPS? Does an easily audible hum from the compressor generally/probably/usually indicate that the start winding is getting current? IOW, if only the run winding is getting power, would I still get an easily audible hum? If only the run winding in a stuck compressor was drawing current, would this current generally/probably/usually be sufficient to trip the safety switch, or is it only the start winding that has sufficiently low impedance to cause it to trip? This is the sort of info that I am after. TIA. T |
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#11
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Fridge motor stuck
Sam Goldwasser wrote in message ...
"Rheilly Phoull" writes: "Thurston Phoremost" wrote in message om... I have a cyclic defrost fridge in near-new condition which was given to me, the only problem was the defrost element open circuit. Well, that fridge has been sitting there for a year, and now that I decide to fix it, I find the compressor won't start. She hums, likea the buzzy bee, then the overtemp protector clicks out. Question - I know that the fridge mechs have a device that they connect up to send a bit of a boost thru the compressor to unstick it, but I'm a bit tight, and if I can rig up a relay and/or a capacitor and/or a triac and/or an instantaneous switch or whatever to do it myself, I will. What's the general principle of it? Am I correct in assuming that the idea is to connect a capacitor across the inductance of the start winding to make a LC circuit whose resonant freq is close to mains freq, so that you can get a lot of current flowing for a small fraction of a second? So... how do I make one of these gizmos? Can't be too hard, surely? And if you do it incorrectly, you've fried the compressor motor and turned your fridge into a plant stand. Yup. That's why I'm asking here, to get enough info so as I don't do it incorrectly. I won't do anything till I have as much info as I can get. You really don't even know if the motor is stuck. Maybe the starting relay is stuck. Have a professional look at it. Really! The relay looks like it can't be taken apart. I'd be interested to know if anyone has ever tried to test these things with a dummy load, for instance in the same way that you can use light bulbs as a dummy load to test a SMPS? Does an easily audible hum from the compressor generally/probably/usually indicate that the start winding is getting current? IOW, if only the run winding is getting power, would I still get an easily audible hum? If only the run winding in a stuck compressor was drawing current, would this current generally/probably/usually be sufficient to trip the safety switch, or is it only the start winding that has sufficiently low impedance to cause it to trip? This is the sort of info that I am after. TIA. T |
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#12
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Fridge motor stuck
"Rheilly Phoull" wrote in message ...
"Thurston Phoremost" wrote in message om... I have a cyclic defrost fridge in near-new condition which was given to me, the only problem was the defrost element open circuit. Well, that fridge has been sitting there for a year, and now that I decide to fix it, I find the compressor won't start. She hums, likea the buzzy bee, then the overtemp protector clicks out. Question - I know that the fridge mechs have a device that they connect up to send a bit of a boost thru the compressor to unstick it, but I'm a bit tight, and if I can rig up a relay and/or a capacitor and/or a triac and/or an instantaneous switch or whatever to do it myself, I will. What's the general principle of it? Am I correct in assuming that the idea is to connect a capacitor across the inductance of the start winding to make a LC circuit whose resonant freq is close to mains freq, so that you can get a lot of current flowing for a small fraction of a second? So... how do I make one of these gizmos? Can't be too hard, surely? T. Put the cap in series with the winding, note that start caps don't need the full mains rating since they are in circuit for such a small time. See if you can find one about 250 uF and about half your local mains voltage. You can turn off the power if it doesn't get away in a second or so. Might take a few "Hits". Thanks for that. I'd imagine you'd have to be careful not to allow the current to flow for too long. I'd say there must be some sort of current limiting arrangement built into the kick-start machine that the fridge mechanic uses, say, something that would limit the start winding current to two or three times the current that the winding would normally carry? Also, I'd guess that it would have a timer in it to ensure that the high current was applied only for a short predetermined time? T. |
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#13
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Fridge motor stuck
"Rheilly Phoull" wrote in message ...
"Thurston Phoremost" wrote in message om... I have a cyclic defrost fridge in near-new condition which was given to me, the only problem was the defrost element open circuit. Well, that fridge has been sitting there for a year, and now that I decide to fix it, I find the compressor won't start. She hums, likea the buzzy bee, then the overtemp protector clicks out. Question - I know that the fridge mechs have a device that they connect up to send a bit of a boost thru the compressor to unstick it, but I'm a bit tight, and if I can rig up a relay and/or a capacitor and/or a triac and/or an instantaneous switch or whatever to do it myself, I will. What's the general principle of it? Am I correct in assuming that the idea is to connect a capacitor across the inductance of the start winding to make a LC circuit whose resonant freq is close to mains freq, so that you can get a lot of current flowing for a small fraction of a second? So... how do I make one of these gizmos? Can't be too hard, surely? T. Put the cap in series with the winding, note that start caps don't need the full mains rating since they are in circuit for such a small time. See if you can find one about 250 uF and about half your local mains voltage. You can turn off the power if it doesn't get away in a second or so. Might take a few "Hits". Thanks for that. I'd imagine you'd have to be careful not to allow the current to flow for too long. I'd say there must be some sort of current limiting arrangement built into the kick-start machine that the fridge mechanic uses, say, something that would limit the start winding current to two or three times the current that the winding would normally carry? Also, I'd guess that it would have a timer in it to ensure that the high current was applied only for a short predetermined time? T. |
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#14
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Fridge motor stuck
Bennett Price wrote in message ...
Is the fridge out in a freezing cold garage? If so, let the compressor warm up to room temp and then give it a try. It may be the oil mixed in with the refrigerant has become waxlike. I am in Australia and we're heading towards summer here at the moment. But thanks for the clue, anyway, it might be a good idea to aim a fan heater at the compressor for an hour or so, and try switching it on again. That might just increase the chances of it unsticking. T. |
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#15
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Fridge motor stuck
Bennett Price wrote in message ...
Is the fridge out in a freezing cold garage? If so, let the compressor warm up to room temp and then give it a try. It may be the oil mixed in with the refrigerant has become waxlike. I am in Australia and we're heading towards summer here at the moment. But thanks for the clue, anyway, it might be a good idea to aim a fan heater at the compressor for an hour or so, and try switching it on again. That might just increase the chances of it unsticking. T. |
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#17
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Fridge motor stuck
(Thurston Phoremost) writes:
The relay looks like it can't be taken apart. I'd be interested to know if anyone has ever tried to test these things with a dummy load, for instance in the same way that you can use light bulbs as a dummy load to test a SMPS? It should be possible. It's typically just a current sensing relay but you can also just put a multimeter between S and C to check if the starting winding is getting voltage. Ditto for the run winding. Does an easily audible hum from the compressor generally/probably/usually indicate that the start winding is getting current? IOW, if only the run winding is getting power, would I still get an easily audible hum? I'd think either way there would be a hum. If only the run winding in a stuck compressor was drawing current, would this current generally/probably/usually be sufficient to trip the safety switch, or is it only the start winding that has sufficiently low impedance to cause it to trip? Excessive current will flow and trip the thermal protector in either case. This is the sort of info that I am after. TIA. Is there a schematic with the fridge? --- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ Home Page: http://www.repairfaq.org/ Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/ +Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm | Mirror Site Info: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html Important: The email address in this message header may no longer work. To contact me, please use the Feedback Form at repairfaq.org. Thanks. |
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#18
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Fridge motor stuck
"Thurston Phoremost" wrote in message om... Bennett Price wrote in message ... Is the fridge out in a freezing cold garage? If so, let the compressor warm up to room temp and then give it a try. It may be the oil mixed in with the refrigerant has become waxlike. I am in Australia and we're heading towards summer here at the moment. But thanks for the clue, anyway, it might be a good idea to aim a fan heater at the compressor for an hour or so, and try switching it on again. That might just increase the chances of it unsticking. T. There's not really much in a compressor that could cause it to stick, they're mechanically very simple, about the only time they won't run is if the starting cap, winding or switch fails, or the oil drains down into the cylinder and hydrolocks it, but that generally will drain out over a couple hours of sitting. Another possibility is that one of the springs supporting the compressor inside it's sealed dome has broken and the cooling fins on the rotor are jammed against the housing, not something that can be easily fixed. |
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#19
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Fridge motor stuck
On 12 Oct 2003 22:40:25 -0700 (Thurston
Phoremost) wrote: I have a cyclic defrost fridge in near-new condition which was given to me, the only problem was the defrost element open circuit. Well, that fridge has been sitting there for a year, and now that I decide to fix it, I find the compressor won't start. She hums, likea the buzzy bee, then the overtemp protector clicks out. These motors usually have a motor run capacitor mounted external to the compressor. It's a black plastic cylinder about 1.75" dia x 4" long. Try replacing that first. I don't know anything about the boost start you mentioned, but it doesn't sound good to me. - ----------------------------------------------- Jim Adney Madison, WI 53711 USA ----------------------------------------------- |
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#20
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Fridge motor stuck
Most compressors do NOT use centrifugal switches, but a ""starting relay"" which appears to be a time delay that opens milliseconds after power. If in fact the starting winding is getting power (easy to check) and the compressor is stuck; then look to the "hard start kit" approach which is in reality a lower value capacitor [less Xc to limit current]. I'd likely try paralleling a cap equal to the existing one. -- A host is a host from coast to & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433 is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433 |
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