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Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems. |
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#41
Posted to sci.electronics.repair,alt.windows7.general
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PC Smoke
You are aware that first alert is owned by kiddie now right?
they put out units under each name and with varying prices. just like most THINK FIREX is junk WRONG its also owned by kiddie. As for the resistor it was a big one in a thousand watt gaming power supply and let me tell you between it buring up and the plastic around it from the heat it created it was a nice smoky mess -- AL'S COMPUTERS "Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message ... On Thu, 5 May 2016 01:57:07 -0400, "Andy" wrote: Interesting facts wrong but its ok Nice diplomacy, but they're either facts, or they're wrong. Can't have both. most good smoke detectors like first alert the only brand i use i have the combo detector both ionization and photoelectric hard wired with battery back up unit. The combo units are best. The photoelectric detectors are faster but ionization detectors are more sensitive. The combination also decreases false alarms as a real fire will trigger both, but chemical and condensation problems will only trigger one or the other. But even my battery only ionization unit that is directly over the pc went off once when a test power supply blew a resistor and the smoke set it off before i could even get to the window to open it to vent the smoke out of the room Egads. How much smoke did this resistor generate? What physical size resistor? When I get a resistor too hot, it usually makes a small puff of smoke before it blows. Unless it were wrapped in an oily rag or the resistor was unusually large, there's not enough material in a small ( 1/4 watt) resistor to produce much smoke. how fast they react ALL DEPENDS on 2 Things AGE OF UNIT all units should be replaced EVERY 10 YEARS. in fact in my state and city it's a code requirement. Yep. However, the problem was not delay time or sensitivity. It was that many battery powered smoke alarms were just sitting there with dead batteries. Replacing the battery once per year was considered a major imposition to many homeowners. To solve that problem, the manufacturers were required to install use a non-replaceable Lithium battery, in trade for requiring the homeowner to buy all new battery operated smoke detectors. Second is brand of unit if you get the cheap 8 dollar one at the dollar store yes it wont react as good as the brand name first alert that costs you 20 or more dollars. that is a proven fact. Well, I prefer Kidde brand to First Alert. The main reason is that I wanted a photoelectric detector with built in carbon monoxide detection ability. I also wanted something that would not false on kitchen cooking and my wood burning stove. I picked the Kidde Model P3010K-CO ($40) for the house and shop: http://www.kidde.com/home-safety/en/us/products/fire-safety/smoke-alarms/p3010k-co/ Ask me in about 8 years and I'll let you know how well they work. I tested one with a galvanized pail full of newspapers. About 4 minutes for the alarm to sound. So far, no falsing from normal cooking or the woodburner. However, when I accidentally set fire to a yam in the microwave, it set off the alarm in about 1 minute after I removed it from the oven: http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/drivel/slides/burned-yam.html In both cases, the house was full of smoke before the alarm finally went off. You might be interested in these stories. The first is from 2007 and is very much out of date. Yet many people still have similar old smoke alarms. Newer alarms are allegedly faster to respond: "Deadly Delay" http://www.wthr.com/global/Story.asp?s=6552929 Notice that the fastest response was 16 minutes. See Part 2 at: http://www.wthr.com/global/Story.asp?s=6554435 Test results Test #1 First Alert dual sensor 18:00 First Alert photoelectric 23:38 First Alert ionization 33:45 Kidde ionization 27:16 Kidde dual sensor 28:50 Kidde photoelectric 29:30 Test #2 First Alert photoelectric 16:21 First Alert dual sensor 16:38 First Alert ionization 42:10 Kidde photoelectric 33:30 Kidde dual sensor 34:30 Kidde ionization 38:39 In 2012, the station continued the smoke detector campaign and testing: http://whnt.com/2012/07/16/smoke-detector-fail-a-taking-action-investigation/ The final result AFTER smoke was present: Ionization: 17:00 minutes Photoelectric: 2:48 seconds Much better, methinks. But the 8 dollar one will go off if you boil water on the stove the better unit wont -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#42
Posted to sci.electronics.repair,alt.windows7.general
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PC Smoke
"Andy" wrote in message
... You are aware that first alert is owned by kiddie now right? they put out units under each name and with varying prices. just like most THINK FIREX is junk WRONG its also owned by kiddie. As for the resistor it was a big one in a thousand watt gaming power supply and let me tell you between it buring up and the plastic around it from the heat it created it was a nice smoky mess snip The other day an UNUSED! SATA connector in my desktop computer shorted out at the free end filling the room with smoke and shutting down the computer. You can do a Google image search for "burned SATA connector" and see the type of damage I had. Fairly common problem, apparently. Mark Z. |
#43
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
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PC Smoke
The other day an UNUSED! SATA connector in my desktop computer shorted out
at the free end filling the room with smoke and shutting down the computer. You can do a Google image search for "burned SATA connector" and see the type of damage I had. Fairly common problem, apparently." That is progress. |
#44
Posted to sci.electronics.repair,alt.windows7.general
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PC Smoke
On Fri, 6 May 2016 02:21:36 -0400, "Andy" wrote:
You are aware that first alert is owned by kiddie now right? No, I wasn't aware of that. Looking at the Wikipedia page, First Alert seems to be owned by Jarden Branded Consumables. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Alert No mention of Kidde. The Kidde page shows that they're part of UTC (United Technologies Corporation) as UTC Fire & Security. No mention of First Alert. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidde I don't have time right now to chase down the details, but it seems to me that they're seperate and unrelated companies. Are you sure? they put out units under each name and with varying prices. just like most THINK FIREX is junk WRONG its also owned by kiddie. Yep. Firex is part of Kiddie: http://www.kidde.com/home-safety/en/us/about/Firex/ Looks like they're recommending total replacent of anything labeled Firex. As for the resistor it was a big one in a thousand watt gaming power supply and let me tell you between it buring up and the plastic around it from the heat it created it was a nice smoky mess Ok, that's different. Big power can generate plenty of smoke. I would expect a smoke alarm to respond fairly quickly to a "nice smoky mess". You also won't need a vinyl hose "sniffer" to find the source. Just look for the crater when the smoke clears. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#45
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
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PC Smoke
wrote in message ... "Some cheaper WW resistors are wound on a glass rod instead of ceramic - glass becomes electrically conductive at red heat. " And what makes them red hot ? Power dissipation. Too much of it caused by too much voltage across it which causes too much current to flow which causes too much wattage to need to dissipate which raises the temperature. Resistors do not lower in value unless abused. Even then, more than half the time they open up. Most resistor types go high when overheated which limits the potential for damage. Glass cored resistors cause an increase in current and consequently the potential for damage. |
#46
Posted to sci.electronics.repair,alt.windows7.general
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PC Smoke
Good idea will give me something to do later
-- AL'S COMPUTERS "Mark Zacharias" wrote in message ... "Andy" wrote in message ... You are aware that first alert is owned by kiddie now right? they put out units under each name and with varying prices. just like most THINK FIREX is junk WRONG its also owned by kiddie. As for the resistor it was a big one in a thousand watt gaming power supply and let me tell you between it buring up and the plastic around it from the heat it created it was a nice smoky mess snip The other day an UNUSED! SATA connector in my desktop computer shorted out at the free end filling the room with smoke and shutting down the computer. You can do a Google image search for "burned SATA connector" and see the type of damage I had. Fairly common problem, apparently. Mark Z. |
#47
Posted to sci.electronics.repair,alt.windows7.general
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PC Smoke
As far as i know unless it was sold again first alert is owned or WAS OWNED
by kiddie -- AL'S COMPUTERS "Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message ... On Fri, 6 May 2016 02:21:36 -0400, "Andy" wrote: You are aware that first alert is owned by kiddie now right? No, I wasn't aware of that. Looking at the Wikipedia page, First Alert seems to be owned by Jarden Branded Consumables. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Alert No mention of Kidde. The Kidde page shows that they're part of UTC (United Technologies Corporation) as UTC Fire & Security. No mention of First Alert. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidde I don't have time right now to chase down the details, but it seems to me that they're seperate and unrelated companies. Are you sure? they put out units under each name and with varying prices. just like most THINK FIREX is junk WRONG its also owned by kiddie. Yep. Firex is part of Kiddie: http://www.kidde.com/home-safety/en/us/about/Firex/ Looks like they're recommending total replacent of anything labeled Firex. As for the resistor it was a big one in a thousand watt gaming power supply and let me tell you between it buring up and the plastic around it from the heat it created it was a nice smoky mess Ok, that's different. Big power can generate plenty of smoke. I would expect a smoke alarm to respond fairly quickly to a "nice smoky mess". You also won't need a vinyl hose "sniffer" to find the source. Just look for the crater when the smoke clears. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#48
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
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PC Smoke
"Glass cored resistors cause an increase in current and consequently the
potential for damage" I remember a video on the internet about having some "fun" with a microwave.. Normally you put glass in a microwave it is unaffected. Well they took a torch to it and heated it up first and then it was definitely affected by microwaves. Before that I never knew glass becomes conductive at high temperatures. |
#49
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
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PC Smoke
wrote in message ... "Glass cored resistors cause an increase in current and consequently the potential for damage" I remember a video on the internet about having some "fun" with a microwave. Normally you put glass in a microwave it is unaffected. Well they took a torch to it and heated it up first and then it was definitely affected by microwaves. Before that I never knew glass becomes conductive at high temperatures. Most types of glass are lossy enough at microwave to not need any such preparation. Once I put a TV valve (tube) in the microwave, the glass glowed red and became plastic, it wrapped around the internal structure like cling film. My coffee mug is glass - I have to tuck the handle into a corner when I heat a cup of water, otherwise the handle gets hot and burns my hand. The alumina ceramic on a spark plug is also lossy enough to get red hot. |
#50
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
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PC Smoke
On Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 3:24:00 PM UTC-4, Ian Field wrote:
The alumina ceramic on a spark plug is also lossy enough to get red hot. I believe you, but............how do you know? It's darned hard to get the ceramic off the steel part before I put it in the microwave. |
#51
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
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PC Smoke
"Tim R" wrote in message ... On Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 3:24:00 PM UTC-4, Ian Field wrote: The alumina ceramic on a spark plug is also lossy enough to get red hot. I believe you, but............how do you know? It's darned hard to get the ceramic off the steel part before I put it in the microwave. I was cleaning the plugs - they wouldn't have been much use if I'd removed the metal bit. If you leave a plug overnight in an industrial strength ultrasonic cleaner, it loosens the compacted powder seal - put it in an engine and the seal will blow out within a mile. If I want the metal shell to make a 2-stroke TDC measure, I just grind off the rolled down lip and dig the seal out with a small screwdriver. |
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