Thanks for all your advice; I think it's the Motor Control Unit
(Whirlpool P/N 8540540).

If you skip to the bottom of this post, you'll see pictures of the
burned board. Do you concur based on the photos below that it's
the motor control board?

Why didn't the diagnostic test work then?

Anyway, after being totally unsuccessful at getting the Whirlpool duet
sport WFW8410SW washing machine to diagnose anything other than F28
(which is apparently the same "communications error" as the infamous F11
that youtubers all deplore), I finally just took the whole thing apart.

The en133200 F11.126/980-214 EMI Noise Filter near where the power
comes in seemed to be in good shape:
http://i.cubeupload.com/9NouUy.gif

The main computer control board (Whirlpool PN W10063510) also seemed
to be in good shape on the bottom:
http://i.cubeupload.com/3AJpZe.gif

And on the top:
http://i.cubeupload.com/vHyNQx.gif

And even looking to the sides:
http://i.cubeupload.com/s47l8r.gif
http://i.cubeupload.com/HXFRaC.gif

But, the motor control board had "something" wrong with it based
on what the plastic looked like:
http://i.cubeupload.com/0hFNfc.gif

I don't know what actually burned yet:
http://i.cubeupload.com/NzBAH1.gif

As the two capacitors seem to be intact:
http://i.cubeupload.com/DLgrxP.gif

Here's one of the capacitors at a side view:
http://i.cubeupload.com/LHKttV.gif

And here's the other capacitor:
http://i.cubeupload.com/eySoyP.gif

This shows a burned trace on the MMU:
http://i.cubeupload.com/zTTwBd.gif

And this shows a closeup of that:
http://i.cubeupload.com/pg2KkN.gif

As does this show burnt components or traces:
http://i.cubeupload.com/hXFq4P.gif

I don't think I can figure out, on my own, whether
it's repairable (I suspect it's not - do you?).

So, at this point, if you have good pointers for where to buy a
new Whirlpool motor control board (PN 8540540), I'd appreciate
more advice now that it's pretty sure that it's the MCU and not
the CCU.

On Sun, 01 May 2016 23:40:24 +0000, Danny DiAmico wrote:

Thanks for all your advice; I think it's the Motor Control Unit
(Whirlpool P/N 8540540).

The part number seems to be either 8540540 or AKO 706497-05
based on this sticker on the Whirlpool WFW8410SW motor control
board.
http://i.cubeupload.com/H3k19q.gif

I wonder what caused the board to blow up? Notice this capacitor
has a hole blown in it, for example:
http://i.cubeupload.com/UQQp1S.gif

Do you think if I put in a new board, that it will also blow?

On Sunday, May 1, 2016 at 8:17:56 PM UTC-4, Danny DiAmico wrote:


Do you think if I put in a new board, that it will also blow?

First, the capacitor visible from the top is toast - the top has clearly swelled, a condition that is typical of a short.

The one large trace looks like a fusible link designed to fail, which, of course, it did. But, that is also likely to be a coincidence rather than an actual design element.

And you also lost a disc cap - that is quite unusual and takes onehelluva spike to accomplish. Which would also explain the fried resistors. Replace it with a new cap of the same value, but with a rating of at least 400V, 600 being better.

There is lots-O-SMT stuff going on, a major PITA to repair unless you have steady hands and good eyesight. Not impossible, but not easy.

I would try to repair the board first - unless a replacement is cheap and time is of the essence. Replace BOTH large electrolytic capacitors, go up one rating (at least) in voltage, and also look for a higher temperature rating than OEM, if one will fit.

You will need to find out whether the resistor near the burn is still good, and its value (don't assume) before you replace it and rebuild the burnt trace. On the long trace, some copper foil will do, solder it to the burnt ends and then trace it over with solder. Once that is done, a bit of CA to hold it to the board will finish the job.

As to putting in a new board, unless you check the ingoing and outgoing voltages, there is no guarantee that there was not an outside cause. But given the appearance of the electrolytics, I suspect they are the first cause.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

On Sun, 01 May 2016 19:04:35 -0700, Oren wrote:

Danny, your pics are to large. Thin the megs down. Your's choke my
bandwidth. Not normally a concern for me.

I'm sorry.
From my experience with you guys, you *see things* I don't see when
I show you pictures (remember the garage door frame rebuild?).

So, I wanted you to have the *biggest* pictures I could supply, so
that you guys could zoom in.

As a courtesy to you all, who help me immensely, here are the shrunk
pictures, in the order of most important to least important.

This is the motor control board (PN 8540540, also PN W10163007) for
the Whirlpool Duet Sport WFW8410SW washing machine:
http://i.cubeupload.com/k1m0mV.jpg

Notice that traces are burnt:
http://i.cubeupload.com/k7Hwkl.jpg

And that multiple surface-mount components have exploded:
http://i.cubeupload.com/YGQ9cM.jpg

There is even a "bullet hole" in one of the flat devices, which,
might not be a capacitor because it's labelled "R16" whereas the
other capacitors have a "C" designation as per typical convention:
http://i.cubeupload.com/RfF0Bv.jpg

I'm not sure if one of the huge electrolytic capacitors has blown
or not, because the top isn't flat, but I don't know if it was
flat to begin with:
http://i.cubeupload.com/vdL6Ut.jpg

The other huge electrolytic capacitor seems OK though:
http://i.cubeupload.com/tb3cu4.jpg

The part number is clearly shown on this sticker (and a call to
the official Whirlpool parts center (866-698-2538) confirms that
the part number W10163007 and 8540540. (It's important to note
that the part number is not W10205342, which is sometimes listed
in the parts diagrams - that must be for a newer model?)
http://i.cubeupload.com/ErHVuc.jpg

I'll repost the shrunk pictures of the CPU board and the EMI
filter separately, but they seem pristine so I don't think the
problem is there (unless they caused the problem in the first
place).

Let me know if these pictures need to be shrunk further as I do
try to document everything not only so that you guys can help
me, but also so that others benefit from each action we take.

PS: Where is Jeff Liebermann when you need him!

On Sun, 01 May 2016 21:33:07 -0700, Uncle Monster wrote:

You'd be better off with a new board.
What you think is a disk capacitor could be an MOV surge arrester.
When those get blown to hell and traces burned off the circuit board,
all other components are suspect.
These newfangled electronically controlled appliances are a lot more
vulnerable to power surges than the old school electromechanical
appliances. I haven't checked recently but I once could buy
rebuilt electromechanical timers for appliances.
I hate wasting things but it's often cheaper to replace a control board.

We did have rains here in California, as Jeff Liebermann would know, where
the wind blew out the power in the mountains three time in one week.

So this was the *first* time the washer was started after the power
went out multiple times!

And you are correct that the part I thought was a capacitor is not
labelled with a C (as the rest of the caps are), but it's labelled
R16, so, it's not a cap.
http://i.cubeupload.com/RfF0Bv.jpg

The rest of the capacitors on the motor control board seem to be ok:
http://i.cubeupload.com/TWiBYR.jpg

But certainly some of the surface-mount components have fried:
http://i.cubeupload.com/xRnjw9.jpg

The good news is that the EMI suppression filter seems to be intact:
http://i.cubeupload.com/ONiqvC.jpg

And the main computer control board (CCU) seems to be in good shape:
http://i.cubeupload.com/qABhEj.jpg

Nothing seems burnt on the CCU:
http://i.cubeupload.com/zBAmq5.jpg

So, now my goal is to see where the best place to get a used or rebuilt
or new Motor Control Board (MCU) P/N W10163007 or PN 8540540 from:
http://i.cubeupload.com/ErHVuc.jpg

On Mon, 02 May 2016 09:32:04 -0700, Uncle Monster wrote:

Well Dan I hope you can get it repaired but the problem with a lot electronic
controls is that when they're hit with a power surge that blows the hell out
of the protectors and blasts runs off a circuit board, all the other parts
are often damaged. MOV's will actually wear out after so many power surges.
On phone lines, me and the guys always installed extra protection and the
protectors would sacrifice themselves to protect the equipment.
The protectors are easily replaced by plugging in a new one.
At your home, you should look into a meter base surge arrester from your
power company. I think it will add a few bucks to your power bill every
month but your power company will guarantee it to protect your appliances.
I don't know what the power company policy is where you reside but it
wouldn't hurt to ask them about a whole house surge arrester. ^_^

Meter base protection:
http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-50240-.../dp/B0019F6X3I

Whole house surge arrester:
http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&page...uckduckgo-d-20

Thanks for the suggestion of a whole-house surge suppressor.

I do have a generator, which kicks in automatically as the power goes
out here in California at least a dozen times a year (it's like living
in a third world country).

I'm not even counting the times the power goes out for seconds, where
the generator doesn't even kick in, or only kicks in for a few seconds,
the power is that bad from PG&E.

So, the two-hundred dollar Amazon surge suppressor you listed looks
reasonable (considering it would cost more than that to put MOVs on
all the computers and electronic devices).

I wonder how it works if I buy that two-hundred dollar part:
http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-50240-.../dp/B0019F6X3I

Or, if I buy the eighty-dollar part:
http://www.amazon.com/WHOLE-LIGHTNIN...2207395&sr=8-4

Does the power company let me put it in myself?

On Mon, 02 May 2016 10:19:21 -0700, Uncle Monster wrote:

You should really call your power company first to see if they'll supply
it and guarantee it. If you get your own, you'll need a licensed
electrician to install it because he'll notify the power company that
the seal has been cut off the meter mount. If you have an old style
meter which requires a human meter reader to look at it, he/she/it
will report the removal of the seal and this upsets power companies.
If you have a smart meter, it will rat on you to the power company
that it has been removed without permission. Now you can install your
own whole house arrester on your main power panel without having to
notify the power company but you should find out about the requirements
for permits. If you're in a rural area, there are usually no permit
Nazis around and nosy neighbors to turn you in. ^_^

It's a smart meter.

Yes. It's rural. And I have a good rapport with my neighbors, where
we have a rule, simply stated as "you can do anything you want on
your property and I won't say 'nuthin" ... just stay off "my" property!

Heh heh ... (everyone out here has guns except me, and the only reason
I don't have 'em is because I'm worried about the kids getting a hold
of 'em accidentally, since I know of a family that was affected by that
happening).

I like the idea of putting something on the circuit breaker itself.

Here's what I have, as far as I know, given that all houses out here
must have no wires attached to them within 25 feet of the house except
underground:
1. I have my own dedicated power pole with a transformer on it about
fifty feet from the house.
2. The underground feed pops up at the outside panel and I can see
three inch-thick aluminium feeds (which I presume is 200 amp service
at two phases)
3. The meter is a smart meter attached at the feed, outside the house.
4. The Generac inverter box is on the inside of the wall where the
meter is.
5. There is a main circuit breaker panel outside at the meter which
basically has only a few circuits on it as I recall (the pool,
the well, and the big stuff like the garage 220 volts).
6. Inside there are two circuit breaker panels, one for the old part
of the house and one for the newer part of the house).

So, I would guess that I put the device in the circuit breaker panel
outside. Is that correct?

Danny DiAmico posted for all of us...



Thanks for all your advice; I think it's the Motor Control Unit
(Whirlpool P/N 8540540).

If you skip to the bottom of this post, you'll see pictures of the
burned board. Do you concur based on the photos below that it's
the motor control board?

Why didn't the diagnostic test work then?

Anyway, after being totally unsuccessful at getting the Whirlpool duet
sport WFW8410SW washing machine to diagnose anything other than F28
(which is apparently the same "communications error" as the infamous F11
that youtubers all deplore), I finally just took the whole thing apart.

The en133200 F11.126/980-214 EMI Noise Filter near where the power
comes in seemed to be in good shape:
http://i.cubeupload.com/9NouUy.gif

The main computer control board (Whirlpool PN W10063510) also seemed
to be in good shape on the bottom:
http://i.cubeupload.com/3AJpZe.gif

And on the top:
http://i.cubeupload.com/vHyNQx.gif

And even looking to the sides:
http://i.cubeupload.com/s47l8r.gif
http://i.cubeupload.com/HXFRaC.gif

But, the motor control board had "something" wrong with it based
on what the plastic looked like:
http://i.cubeupload.com/0hFNfc.gif

I don't know what actually burned yet:
http://i.cubeupload.com/NzBAH1.gif

As the two capacitors seem to be intact:
http://i.cubeupload.com/DLgrxP.gif

Here's one of the capacitors at a side view:
http://i.cubeupload.com/LHKttV.gif

And here's the other capacitor:
http://i.cubeupload.com/eySoyP.gif

This shows a burned trace on the MMU:
http://i.cubeupload.com/zTTwBd.gif

And this shows a closeup of that:
http://i.cubeupload.com/pg2KkN.gif

As does this show burnt components or traces:
http://i.cubeupload.com/hXFq4P.gif

I don't think I can figure out, on my own, whether
it's repairable (I suspect it's not - do you?).

So, at this point, if you have good pointers for where to buy a
new Whirlpool motor control board (PN 8540540), I'd appreciate
more advice now that it's pretty sure that it's the MCU and not
the CCU.

DOS Dead On Scene...

--
Tekkie