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Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems. |
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#1
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,sci.electronics.repair
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Do battery chargers mostly suck, in your experience?
I have a lot of things, most of which have batteries, and therefore I
have a lot of battery chargers. My experience with them has been generally negative. The worst are the so called "smart" chargers. The problem is that they are often the opposite of "smart". They go crazy and stop charging for no reason, or worse, drain the batteries. Additionally, they fail due to things such as cold weather or whatever, things any decently made item should handle. The chargers, at least for lead acid batteries, would really be better off, if they simply tried to maintain 13.3 volts or some such. My question is, is my experience unique and atypical, or have you also had bad experience with battery chargers. Thanks i |
#2
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,sci.electronics.repair
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Do battery chargers mostly suck, in your experience?
Ignoramus7945 fired this volley in
: I have a lot of things, most of which have batteries, and therefore I have a lot of battery chargers. My experience with them has been generally negative. The worst are the so called "smart" chargers. The problem is that they are often the opposite of "smart". They go crazy and stop charging for no reason, or worse, drain the batteries. Additionally, they fail due to things such as cold weather or whatever, things any decently made item should handle. The chargers, at least for lead acid batteries, would really be better off, if they simply tried to maintain 13.3 volts or some such. My question is, is my experience unique and atypical, or have you also had bad experience with battery chargers. Thanks i Ig, The problem with most consumer lead-acid battery chargers (and most of the pro versions, too) are built on 30-to-40-year-old technology. The 'smartest' consumer lead-acide smart-charger isn't nearly as adaptable as the chargers on most kids' hand-held toys. There are some smart 'maintenance' type chargers out there. But even those are 10-year-old tech. LLoyd |
#3
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,sci.electronics.repair
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Do battery chargers mostly suck, in your experience?
On Sun, 24 Apr 2016 07:55:52 -0500, Ignoramus7945
wrote: I have a lot of things, most of which have batteries, and therefore I have a lot of battery chargers. My experience with them has been generally negative. The worst are the so called "smart" chargers. The problem is that they are often the opposite of "smart". They go crazy and stop charging for no reason, or worse, drain the batteries. Additionally, they fail due to things such as cold weather or whatever, things any decently made item should handle. The chargers, at least for lead acid batteries, would really be better off, if they simply tried to maintain 13.3 volts or some such. My question is, is my experience unique and atypical, or have you also had bad experience with battery chargers. Thanks i Most simple lead-acid chargers do just that, and only for one battery voltage. The larger the charger, the more likely it is designed for one specific application. The more elaborate they are, the more things that can go wrong to confuse the controller and trigger protective circuitry. Smart chargers and particularly smart chargers intended to charge 'smart' batteries have the worst record. If you examine their state-machine organization, you will see innumerable vectors that result in incomplete charging functions, or cyclical fault loops, with little regard for completion of the intended task. This is getting better, with time, but there is poor emphasis on battery charging integrity in the development of most new products that offer rechargeable battery options. It is considered as an add-on, or a feature that can be handled in firmware, despite the lack of experience that programmer's may have in the power electronics field. As a result, established products can be expected to operate more reliably, as they benefit from their previous iterations, similar to other software-dependent applications. RL |
#4
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,sci.electronics.repair
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Do battery chargers mostly suck, in your experience?
On Sun, 24 Apr 2016 07:55:52 -0500, Ignoramus7945
wrote: I have a lot of things, most of which have batteries, and therefore I have a lot of battery chargers. My experience with them has been generally negative. The worst are the so called "smart" chargers. The problem is that they are often the opposite of "smart". They go crazy and stop charging for no reason, or worse, drain the batteries. Additionally, they fail due to things such as cold weather or whatever, things any decently made item should handle. The chargers, at least for lead acid batteries, would really be better off, if they simply tried to maintain 13.3 volts or some such. My question is, is my experience unique and atypical, or have you also had bad experience with battery chargers. Thanks i There are good battery chargers, there are fair battery chargers and there are a large...large number of Junk battery chargers. Most common battery chargers are designed for the homeowner. These tend to be more or less... junk, make in China, of materials/components that are apparently designed to have a minimal life span. Personally..I think its a crime to sell them. False advertising at best. Here is a listing of the best homeowner type chargers, per reviewers http://car-battery-charger-review.toptenreviews.com/ Here is a brand that is quite good. http://www.usabatterychargers.com/co...ry_charger.htm And another https://www.batterystuff.com/battery...l/ICS1225.html Some..some of Schumachers chargers are quite good. Some. http://www.batterychargers.com/blog/...ears-in-a-row/ That being said....USING battery chargers Can be more involved than hooking up 2 leads and plugging it in. You need to know if the battery itself can actually be recharged. You said something about the charge indicator needle banging back and forth.... you do know that USUALLY indicates either a badly calcified battery or one that has broken plates...IE..an internal short...right? Batteries need to be charged in certain environmental conditions as well. Trying to get a marginal charger to charge a battery that has been sitting stone cold dead for 4 yrs after being removed from an off road pickup truck, in the dead of winter....is an exercise for someone with nothing better to do with their life. Etc etc etc. Trying to jump/charge a diesel truck battery in the Freightliner, with a float charger meant for small cars...simply wont work very well either..... Ive got about 4 -6 chargers at the moment..most of them purchased at yard sales. Each one of them has been beat to hell by the previous owners. Ive had to take them apart, straighten out internal bends and breaks that happened when they fell off tall shelves, were kicked into the corner, were run over and so forth. An elderly Schumacher is the oldest..and has given me the best service for at least 15 yrs. I also have a floor model that is in the To Do pile..its older than dirt but should be easy to restore when I get the time to **** with it. Ive used 12volt forklift chargers with great sucess over the years. Some are very good indeed. Others..older ones...are simply larger versions of home use chargers. They will charge a battery in good condition and not run flat and left sitting for 5 yrs, quite well. Other batteries less well treated...not so much. Gunner |
#5
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,sci.electronics.repair
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Do battery chargers mostly suck, in your experience?
On 2016-04-24, Gunner Asch wrote:
Here is a brand that is quite good. http://www.usabatterychargers.com/co...ry_charger.htm I like those chargers, thanks. i That being said....USING battery chargers Can be more involved than hooking up 2 leads and plugging it in. You need to know if the battery itself can actually be recharged. And this is why, any decent battery charger needs to have both amps AND volts displays. With these two you can figure out what is going on very quickly. i |
#6
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Do battery chargers mostly suck, in your experience?
On Sun, 24 Apr 2016 08:04:01 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote: Ive got about 4 -6 chargers at the moment. I love the variable number! Typical Wieber. LOL So are you a crazy hoarder, or are you the classic don't-fix-it-if-you-can-get-away-with-constantly-charging type of battery expert? 1. Get a job so you can afford new batteries when needed. 2. Learn how to diagnose electrical issues so that you're not dealing with dead batteries all the time. Then you'll find you only need one decent battery charger for emergencies, or for helping people who ignored 1. and 2. Bonus, you can hold a yard and earn between $15 and $25 selling your fleet of chargers. |
#7
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,sci.electronics.repair
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Do battery chargers mostly suck, in your experience?
On Sun, 24 Apr 2016 10:25:19 -0500, Ignoramus7945
wrote: And this is why, any decent battery charger needs to have both amps AND volts displays. With these two you can figure out what is going on very quickly. i DC clamp multimeters are cheap and any serious DIYer should have one. Duplicating that functionality on a charger is more of a want than a need. |
#8
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,sci.electronics.repair
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Do battery chargers mostly suck, in your experience?
On Sun, 24 Apr 2016 10:25:19 -0500, Ignoramus7945
wrote: On 2016-04-24, Gunner Asch wrote: Here is a brand that is quite good. http://www.usabatterychargers.com/co...ry_charger.htm I like those chargers, thanks. i That being said....USING battery chargers Can be more involved than hooking up 2 leads and plugging it in. You need to know if the battery itself can actually be recharged. And this is why, any decent battery charger needs to have both amps AND volts displays. With these two you can figure out what is going on very quickly. i Ayup. And many folks today are so butt ignorant about "what is going on very quickly" that voltmeters simply arent included because Aunt Mae or Brother Bob doesnt have a clue, nor has any interest in knowing whats going on. When the electric start snow blower or mower wont turn over and fire up..they want to simply put the charger on it..wait a long time (usally 15 minutes) and go do the mowing/blowing. Im reminded daily..what an august group we have here. Smart people who can actually find their asses with more than one hand..even simultainiously or consecutivly!! A very large portion of our population can barely pour in gas..let alone know if its supposed to have oil mixed in it or not. As any mower shop about that...... |
#9
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,sci.electronics.repair
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Do battery chargers mostly suck, in your experience?
On Sun, 24 Apr 2016 07:55:52 -0500, Ignoramus7945
wrote: I have a lot of things, most of which have batteries, and therefore I have a lot of battery chargers. My experience with them has been generally negative. The worst are the so called "smart" chargers. The problem is that they are often the opposite of "smart". They go crazy and stop charging for no reason, or worse, drain the batteries. Additionally, they fail due to things such as cold weather or whatever, things any decently made item should handle. The chargers, at least for lead acid batteries, would really be better off, if they simply tried to maintain 13.3 volts or some such. My question is, is my experience unique and atypical, or have you also had bad experience with battery chargers. Nope. Over the years, I've found cause to blame the battery, the owner, the dealer, and the charger. Sometimes, it's bad combinations of the two. For example, the charger clearly says that it's for lead-acid flooded batteries, but the owner insists that it should charge an AGM or Gel type battery. I've lost count of how many times I've run into people trying to charge batteries that are obviously dead, leaking, or dry. Sometimes (not often) the chargers are just plain junk: http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/drivel/slides/dead-battery-chargers.html As I vaguely recall, all but one of these blew up in service. The one that survived and another that was not in the photo, were pre-emptively replaced. Smart chargers are actually better than crude chargers because they take the decision making responsibility away from the owner. Plug it in, walk away, and it's done. In 95% of the situations, that's fine and will work as advertised. However, you can get into situations where a smart charger can be fooled and will screw up. For example, it can't tell the difference between a shorted battery and a totally discharged battery. In order to protect itself (from fire and liability lawsuits), smart chargers refuse to charge such batteries. Yet, the battery is still good, but needs to be brought up slowly until the smarts in the smart charger decides that it's worthy of charging. If this is your problem, you can buy a charger that will do that automagically, or you can bring it up slooooowly with a simple trickle charger until the smart charger is happy. There are other situations that might cause problems, but I don't want to burn the time right now. You can also create problems by having the battery and charger at different temperatures or using corroded or rotten battery leads. Both of these can fool a smart charger. With the LiIon family of batteries, you have no choice in chargers. It's going to be a smart charger or forget about charging. Lots of reasons but the big one is that one tiny mistake with a LiIon type battery and it's toast or you start a fire. Again, the smart charger takes the decision away from the owner. LiIon also adds the need to use a "balance charger", which equalizes the voltage of each cell. "Equalization" can also done with flooded lead-acid cells if they get out of balance, but for LiIon, methinks it's a necessity. Of course, a balance charge requires a smart charger. Basically, you have to evaluate each battery, battery charger, and user combination together. If one part doesn't fit well, it's not going to work. For example, you can have the worlds best battery and smart charger, but if the owner doesn't follow the instructions, it's unlikely to work. If you do decide to do your own thing, ask yourself "are you really smarter than the smart charger"? -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#10
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Do battery chargers mostly suck, in your experience?
On Sun, 24 Apr 2016 10:34:33 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote: On Sun, 24 Apr 2016 07:55:52 -0500, Ignoramus7945 wrote: I have a lot of things, most of which have batteries, and therefore I have a lot of battery chargers. My experience with them has been generally negative. The worst are the so called "smart" chargers. The problem is that they are often the opposite of "smart". They go crazy and stop charging for no reason, or worse, drain the batteries. Additionally, they fail due to things such as cold weather or whatever, things any decently made item should handle. The chargers, at least for lead acid batteries, would really be better off, if they simply tried to maintain 13.3 volts or some such. My question is, is my experience unique and atypical, or have you also had bad experience with battery chargers. Nope. Over the years, I've found cause to blame the battery, the owner, the dealer, and the charger. Sometimes, it's bad combinations of the two. For example, the charger clearly says that it's for lead-acid flooded batteries, but the owner insists that it should charge an AGM or Gel type battery. I've lost count of how many times I've run into people trying to charge batteries that are obviously dead, leaking, or dry. Sometimes (not often) the chargers are just plain junk: http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/drivel/slides/dead-battery-chargers.html As I vaguely recall, all but one of these blew up in service. The one that survived and another that was not in the photo, were pre-emptively replaced. Smart chargers are actually better than crude chargers because they take the decision making responsibility away from the owner. Plug it in, walk away, and it's done. In 95% of the situations, that's fine and will work as advertised. However, you can get into situations where a smart charger can be fooled and will screw up. For example, it can't tell the difference between a shorted battery and a totally discharged battery. In order to protect itself (from fire and liability lawsuits), smart chargers refuse to charge such batteries. Yet, the battery is still good, but needs to be brought up slowly until the smarts in the smart charger decides that it's worthy of charging. If this is your problem, you can buy a charger that will do that automagically, or you can bring it up slooooowly with a simple trickle charger until the smart charger is happy. There are other situations that might cause problems, but I don't want to burn the time right now. You can also create problems by having the battery and charger at different temperatures or using corroded or rotten battery leads. Both of these can fool a smart charger. With the LiIon family of batteries, you have no choice in chargers. It's going to be a smart charger or forget about charging. Lots of reasons but the big one is that one tiny mistake with a LiIon type battery and it's toast or you start a fire. Again, the smart charger takes the decision away from the owner. LiIon also adds the need to use a "balance charger", which equalizes the voltage of each cell. "Equalization" can also done with flooded lead-acid cells if they get out of balance, but for LiIon, methinks it's a necessity. Of course, a balance charge requires a smart charger. Basically, you have to evaluate each battery, battery charger, and user combination together. If one part doesn't fit well, it's not going to work. For example, you can have the worlds best battery and smart charger, but if the owner doesn't follow the instructions, it's unlikely to work. If you do decide to do your own thing, ask yourself "are you really smarter than the smart charger"? Excellent post!! Bravo!! Gunner |
#11
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Do battery chargers mostly suck, in your experience?
On Sun, 24 Apr 2016 07:55:52 -0500, Ignoramus7945
wrote: I have a lot of things, most of which have batteries, and therefore I have a lot of battery chargers. My experience with them has been generally negative. The worst are the so called "smart" chargers. The problem is that they are often the opposite of "smart". They go crazy and stop charging for no reason, or worse, drain the batteries. Additionally, they fail due to things such as cold weather or whatever, things any decently made item should handle. The chargers, at least for lead acid batteries, would really be better off, if they simply tried to maintain 13.3 volts or some such. My question is, is my experience unique and atypical, or have you also had bad experience with battery chargers. Thanks i Cheap battery chargers are universally troublesome. Smart chargers will not charge a defective battery and are often optimized for, say, an automotive starting battery- and will balk at charging an 8Ah "gell cell" Different horses for different courses - and no such thing as "universal" Lead Acid batteries may never start to charge with a charger limitted to 13.3 volts - and would NEVER reach a full charge. |
#12
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Do battery chargers mostly suck, in your experience?
On Sun, 24 Apr 2016 10:13:04 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote: Aunt Mae or Brother Bob doesnt have a clue, But if they have jobs and own their homes then they're miles ahead of you! As is *everyone* I know personally, including some teenagers and many who can't open their hoods much less know anything about what's in there. You're perpetually broke, in debt, spend most of your nights sleeping in a truck, and the rest sleeping in a dingy mobile home on a tiny rented lot in a crummy town. Does it really make sense to you to be running down fictitious people for not knowing how to use a voltmeter? Particularly since your own troubleshooting skills have been proven a joke. "As for his "prowess" as an electrical trouble shooter, I picked up a complete service manual with all of the electrical diagrams and his "Fix" for the failed components was to bypass the fuses - TO THE CHARGING CIRCUIT - and baste everything in PB Blaster. There wasn't anything wrong with the charging circuit. The batteries he had cobbled together were ****. I picked up a set from Big Joe and, miracle of miracles, the relay's and solenoinds suddenly started working. It was pretty obvious at that point that his real skill is bull ****ting. A ten year old could have made perfect sense of the electrical drawings but not Gunner." http://groups.google.com/group/misc....1e94166afc0da2 |
#14
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,sci.electronics.repair
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Do battery chargers mostly suck, in your experience?
On Sun, 24 Apr 2016 18:16:16 -0400, wrote:
On Sun, 24 Apr 2016 13:33:37 -0700, wrote: On Sun, 24 Apr 2016 10:13:04 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote: Aunt Mae or Brother Bob doesnt have a clue, But if they have jobs and own their homes then they're miles ahead of you! As is *everyone* I know personally, including some teenagers and many who can't open their hoods much less know anything about what's in there. You're perpetually broke, in debt, spend most of your nights sleeping in a truck, and the rest sleeping in a dingy mobile home on a tiny rented lot in a crummy town. Does it really make sense to you to be running down fictitious people for not knowing how to use a voltmeter? Particularly since your own troubleshooting skills have been proven a joke. "As for his "prowess" as an electrical trouble shooter, I picked up a complete service manual with all of the electrical diagrams and his "Fix" for the failed components was to bypass the fuses - TO THE CHARGING CIRCUIT - and baste everything in PB Blaster. There wasn't anything wrong with the charging circuit. The batteries he had cobbled together were ****. I picked up a set from Big Joe and, miracle of miracles, the relay's and solenoinds suddenly started working. It was pretty obvious at that point that his real skill is bull ****ting. A ten year old could have made perfect sense of the electrical drawings but not Gunner." http://groups.google.com/group/misc....1e94166afc0da2 Just like the old saying "most carburetor problems aren't" - most battery charger problems aren't. More likely battery problems - or like the idiot a while back who insisted it was a dangerous defect in a Canadian Tire battery charger that the ammeter melted inside the case when he used the 100 amp "start assist" mode as a fast charger - - - - - -. A while back I dragged out a 13hp generator that had been in unheated storage through 2 winters. The small and cheap AGM battery was about 6 years old. I assumed it would be toast and at a minimum would be dead flat. But my charger refused to pass any current. Nah, it couldn't be... I pressed the start button and the generator cranked quite a bit and then fired up. |
#15
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,sci.electronics.repair
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Do battery chargers mostly suck, in your experience?
On Sun, 24 Apr 2016 16:08:02 -0700, wrote:
On Sun, 24 Apr 2016 18:16:16 -0400, wrote: On Sun, 24 Apr 2016 13:33:37 -0700, wrote: On Sun, 24 Apr 2016 10:13:04 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote: Aunt Mae or Brother Bob doesnt have a clue, But if they have jobs and own their homes then they're miles ahead of you! As is *everyone* I know personally, including some teenagers and many who can't open their hoods much less know anything about what's in there. You're perpetually broke, in debt, spend most of your nights sleeping in a truck, and the rest sleeping in a dingy mobile home on a tiny rented lot in a crummy town. Does it really make sense to you to be running down fictitious people for not knowing how to use a voltmeter? Particularly since your own troubleshooting skills have been proven a joke. "As for his "prowess" as an electrical trouble shooter, I picked up a complete service manual with all of the electrical diagrams and his "Fix" for the failed components was to bypass the fuses - TO THE CHARGING CIRCUIT - and baste everything in PB Blaster. There wasn't anything wrong with the charging circuit. The batteries he had cobbled together were ****. I picked up a set from Big Joe and, miracle of miracles, the relay's and solenoinds suddenly started working. It was pretty obvious at that point that his real skill is bull ****ting. A ten year old could have made perfect sense of the electrical drawings but not Gunner." http://groups.google.com/group/misc....1e94166afc0da2 Just like the old saying "most carburetor problems aren't" - most battery charger problems aren't. More likely battery problems - or like the idiot a while back who insisted it was a dangerous defect in a Canadian Tire battery charger that the ammeter melted inside the case when he used the 100 amp "start assist" mode as a fast charger - - - - - -. A while back I dragged out a 13hp generator that had been in unheated storage through 2 winters. The small and cheap AGM battery was about 6 years old. I assumed it would be toast and at a minimum would be dead flat. But my charger refused to pass any current. Nah, it couldn't be... I pressed the start button and the generator cranked quite a bit and then fired up. An AGM battery is about as close to "magic" as you can get in a battery!!! |
#16
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,sci.electronics.repair
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Do battery chargers mostly suck, in your experience?
On Sun, 24 Apr 2016 18:16:16 -0400, wrote:
"As for his "prowess" as an electrical trouble shooter, I picked up a complete service manual with all of the electrical diagrams and his "Fix" for the failed components was to bypass the fuses - TO THE CHARGING CIRCUIT - and baste everything in PB Blaster. There wasn't anything wrong with the charging circuit. The batteries he had cobbled together were ****. I picked up a set from Big Joe and, miracle of miracles, the relay's and solenoinds suddenly started working. It was pretty obvious at that point that his real skill is bull ****ting. A ten year old could have made perfect sense of the electrical drawings but not Gunner." http://groups.google.com/group/misc....1e94166afc0da2 Snicker....roflmao!! Gunner |
#17
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Do battery chargers mostly suck, in your experience?
On Sun, 24 Apr 2016 17:56:01 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote: On Sun, 24 Apr 2016 18:16:16 -0400, wrote: "As for his "prowess" as an electrical trouble shooter, I picked up a complete service manual with all of the electrical diagrams and his "Fix" for the failed components was to bypass the fuses - TO THE CHARGING CIRCUIT - and baste everything in PB Blaster. There wasn't anything wrong with the charging circuit. The batteries he had cobbled together were ****. I picked up a set from Big Joe and, miracle of miracles, the relay's and solenoinds suddenly started working. It was pretty obvious at that point that his real skill is bull ****ting. A ten year old could have made perfect sense of the electrical drawings but not Gunner." http://groups.google.com/group/misc....1e94166afc0da2 Snicker....roflmao!! Gunner Pretend to laugh all you want, but in every time you open your yap about electricity you prove that that guy had a ringside seat to your self destructiveness and limitations. It's clear that you are even worse at troubleshooting than you are at lying about being able to troubleshoot. |
#18
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Do battery chargers mostly suck, in your experience?
Ignoramus7945 wrote:
I have a lot of things, most of which have batteries, and therefore I have a lot of battery chargers. My experience with them has been generally negative. The worst are the so called "smart" chargers. The problem is that they are often the opposite of "smart". They go crazy and stop charging for no reason, or worse, drain the batteries. Additionally, they fail due to things such as cold weather or whatever, things any decently made item should handle. ** The charges that really "suck" are ones that ruin the cells in short order by overcharging and hence overheating them. Ones that rely on sensing the temp of a cell or run for a fixed time are the main offenders. The chargers, at least for lead acid batteries, would really be better off, if they simply tried to maintain 13.3 volts or some such. ** Most do just that, fixed current charge with a max voltage of 13.5 or so to float the cells. Smart ones can detect shorted cells or open circuit conditions and do noting. My question is, is my experience unique and atypical, or have you also had bad experience with battery chargers. ** Plenty - especially ones that try to fast charge loose cells removed from the item as if they were a pack. FYI: I have a cordless screwdriver ( Bosch, made in Switzerland) ) that has a non removable pack and a fixed time charger, runs about 4 hours. Long as the driver is sluggish when you connect the charger it does the job fine every time with only a slight temp rise. Its 20 years old now and I have replaced the 4 sub-C NiCd cells three times.. ..... Phil |
#19
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Do battery chargers mostly suck, in your experience?
Ignoramus7945 wrote:
I have a lot of things, most of which have batteries, and therefore I have a lot of battery chargers. My experience with them has been generally negative. The worst are the so called "smart" chargers. The problem is that they are often the opposite of "smart". They go crazy and stop charging for no reason, or worse, drain the batteries. Additionally, they fail due to things such as cold weather or whatever, things any decently made item should handle. The chargers, at least for lead acid batteries, would really be better off, if they simply tried to maintain 13.3 volts or some such. My question is, is my experience unique and atypical, or have you also had bad experience with battery chargers. Thanks i I have some good ones, until they broke. Some lead acid chargers I built with 80s. Chip, with temp sensing. Don't know if any still work. My trusty 4 amp manual charger for lead acid still working after 35 years. I got an old Eico variable variac battery eliminator is nice to use manually. Greg |
#20
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,sci.electronics.repair
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Do battery chargers mostly suck, in your experience?
On 2016-04-24, Ignoramus7945 wrote:
My experience with them has been generally negative. The worst are the so called "smart" chargers. My best experiences have been with old-school "dumb" chargers. I have a 4-amp model purchased over 40 years that is still going strong, works every time. Recently I purchased a modern charger but it would not work worth a damn even after returning for a replacement. So I went back to the old standby and picked up another similar charger at a flea market. That one also works great. "New" and "improved" are not always the same thing. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Roger Blake (Posts from Google Groups killfiled due to excess spam.) NSA sedition and treason -- http://www.DeathToNSAthugs.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
#21
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Do battery chargers mostly suck, in your experience?
using Ctek with Optima batts...one Ctek-one Optima...excellent results...super super...
have a simpler n less expensive device from Powerstream for 6V. tried rechargeable AA batts.....shoot on site. |
#22
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Do battery chargers mostly suck, in your experience?
In rec.crafts.metalworking Ignoramus7945 wrote:
I have a lot of things, most of which have batteries, and therefore I have a lot of battery chargers. My experience with them has been generally negative. The worst are the so called "smart" chargers. The problem is that they are often the opposite of "smart". They go crazy and stop charging for no reason, or worse, drain the batteries. Additionally, they fail due to things such as cold weather or whatever, things any decently made item should handle. The chargers, at least for lead acid batteries, would really be better off, if they simply tried to maintain 13.3 volts or some such. My question is, is my experience unique and atypical, or have you also had bad experience with battery chargers. It's pretty safe to say most chargers are just stupid, but lots of batteries are also garbage, and neither can compensate for each other in the end. Apparently the last batteries installed in the UPS at work were total pieces of garbage and are dying off before 5 years. They're larger than car battery sized so should last quite some time. The testing company comes in and does an ESR test on each battery, which shows faults the charger (it's a 545 volt system) won't ever detect. The charts for each battery are pretty cool, (sorry, I can't share them). I can note that one problem battery is about 250mV lower than the rest and has an ESR of 65,000 microhms vs an average of 15,000 for the rest. One year ago the bad battery had voltage of 14.00 which is high, so the failure wasn't sudden and the weird data shows up on various charts. They've removed the funky battery from the battery string and then dropped the charger voltage in the UPS to prevent damage to the rest of the batteries. Basically, if this battery which might explode under real use was attached to a 12V float charger all that would happen is more electroylte would just boil out, it would never finish charging and it wouldn't work right anyways. The charger would have no idea anything was even wrong without past performance data or known good specs for the battery being inputted anyways. Batteries are can have complex failure modes that you just won't catch with a volt meter. It looks like full load on these batteries is about 150Amps, so it's any hot spots would get get really interesting buring a power failure. |
#23
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,sci.electronics.repair
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Do battery chargers mostly suck, in your experience?
On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 12:59:19 -0000 (UTC), Roger Blake
wrote: On 2016-04-24, Ignoramus7945 wrote: My experience with them has been generally negative. The worst are the so called "smart" chargers. My best experiences have been with old-school "dumb" chargers. I have a 4-amp model purchased over 40 years that is still going strong, works every time. Recently I purchased a modern charger but it would not work worth a damn even after returning for a replacement. So I went back to the old standby and picked up another similar charger at a flea market. That one also works great. "New" and "improved" are not always the same thing. Hear Hear!! |
#24
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Do battery chargers mostly suck, in your experience?
On Sun, 24 Apr 2016 22:29:34 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison
wrote: ** The charges that really "suck" are ones that ruin the cells in short order by overcharging and hence overheating them. Ones that rely on sensing the temp of a cell or run for a fixed time are the main offenders. The temperature sensing chargers are the worst. I used to deal with them in Kenwood handheld radios. There was a translucent red window in the bottom of the radio battery pack and another in the base of the drop in charger. When the NiCd battery got hot, the IR radiation would go through the windows to a sensor of some sorts in the charger and turn off the charging. At least that was the theory. The problem was that by the time the surface of the NiCd battery cells were hot enough to register a temperature increase, it was already too late. For NiCd chemistry, the battery only gets hot AFTER it overheats. This system was really good for killing battery packs. However, there was another problem. When the charger recognized that the battery was hot, it would shut down. After a while, it would cool down, start charging, and repeat the cycle over and over until the battery was finally truly and totally dead. When NiMH arrived, things changed for the worse. Using a temperature sensor wouldn't work because NiMH normally would get warm while charging. Instead, there was a tiny drop in voltage just before the battery reached full charge. The smart charger chip would detect this drop in voltage and declare the battery to have been successfully charged. That works well until you drop a fully charged battery into the charger. There's no drop in voltage and the charger just keeps charging until the battery overheats and is truly dead. LiIon chargers are all smart and do a good job of preventing overcharging. You can create a problem with dirty battery contacts, but that's rare. However, LiIon cells deteriorate when left at full charge for too long: http://www.mpoweruk.com/lithium_failures.htm Same with leaving it discharged or too hot. The main culprits are desktop replacement laptops, which tend to be left on charge 24x7. Many newer laptop have a charge control that stops charging at 50 to 60% to extend battery life. http://www.apple.com/batteries/maximizing-performance/ http://www.howtogeek.com/169669/debunking-battery-life-myths-for-mobile-phones-tablets-and-laptops/ The next generation of LiIon chargers just might have an adjustable EoC (end of charge) control. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#25
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,sci.electronics.repair
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Do battery chargers mostly suck, in your experience?
Right.
I have an old school, run over and bent charger. Heavy due to a Transformer. It charges. I have a new school, plastic wonder and Electronic. Light as a box. It 'measures' the battery and trashes a battery when the old one fixes it. It will fix sulfur plates by using AC charging. Hard to beat a transformer. Martin On 4/25/2016 12:50 PM, Gunner Asch wrote: On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 12:59:19 -0000 (UTC), Roger Blake wrote: On 2016-04-24, Ignoramus7945 wrote: My experience with them has been generally negative. The worst are the so called "smart" chargers. My best experiences have been with old-school "dumb" chargers. I have a 4-amp model purchased over 40 years that is still going strong, works every time. Recently I purchased a modern charger but it would not work worth a damn even after returning for a replacement. So I went back to the old standby and picked up another similar charger at a flea market. That one also works great. "New" and "improved" are not always the same thing. Hear Hear!! |
#26
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Do battery chargers mostly suck, in your experience?
AE6KS
following reduce max charge n allow depletion before recharging advice.... Ctek's and Optimas are mated...there's an Optima icon on the Ctek. 'Instead, there was a tiny drop in voltage just before the battery reached full charge. The smart charger chip would detect this drop in voltage and declare the battery to have been successfully charged.' there is advice on NOT charging gel acids to max as max discharges gases ie depletes batt capacity n longevity. no odor detected. Ctek's connection seems to declare the batt charged as switching into SUPPLY after CHARGED produces substantially more running time than CHARGE ...poss 30% more..poss age related 8 year batts used for laptop/emergency auto start/small Holmes hospital clamp fan. Never depleted under 12V The Odyssey batt connected to truck was good at 5 years but not new. The new one immediately improved ignition quality b a small fraction |
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