Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems.

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  #31   Report Post  
Old January 16th 16, 09:32 PM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Default Key contact restoration



"N_Cook" wrote in message ...

On 16/01/2016 18:44, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 16 Jan 2016 10:32:36 +0000, N_Cook wrote:

Is it simple on/off contacts or is change of R monitored for key "action"


http://oi65.tinypic.com/14xdmo3.jpg
The piano keys on a synthesizer might require some form of velocity
sensing which most assuredly is NOT resistive. The buttons in the
above photo are for turning things on/off and are therefore simple
on/off connections.
http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/key-feel-and-response-of-keyboards.html




I don't know how many contacts are required.
I just tried taking a standard simple 10x10mm footprint click switch
apart , parts just clipped together. Cutting a disc of thin 1mm
silicone rubber, placing over the dome contact and reassembling , the
click noise and abrupt click action disappears, but still functions.
If they can be soldered to the pcb, ignoring the resistive pads, then
only a matter of fudging the right size and height of top protrusion to
glue over the stem of the switches,if necessary .
Well thats my halfpennyworth







Look at the photo, I need to replace the 0-9 data entry keypad on the far
right of the panel, and the four buttons to the left of it.
http://www.vintagesynth.com/sci/stk.php


The customer has said he wants the keyboard for his own use, so doesn't
require it to be restored to original condition, so I am now thinking I
might be able to find a 16 way keypad and wire it directly to the switching
matrix, and pretty much glue it to the top panel.
(He now realises ripping out the old pads because they didn't work properly
was not a good idea. I think he has been using a screwdriver to operate the
pads)

It will need some hacking because from memory, 0 - 7 have a common line, 8 &
9 use part of another, and the other switches I think are kind of random in
the matrix.



Gareth.















  #32   Report Post  
Old January 16th 16, 09:41 PM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Default Key contact restoration



"Kaz Kylheku" wrote in message ...

On 2016-01-15, Gareth Magennis wrote:
I would direct your juvenile rantings to Microsoft instead.
It is they who have made Live Mail do this, and they won't fix it.


Using Live Mail even though it sucks and you know it is *your* choice.
Why *should* they fix it when hordes of lemmings will use a free piece
of crap as-is? You're the reason they won't fix it.

The responsibility for conforming to Usenet guidelines is yours alone;
you can't deliberately use some program you know is broken and blame
it on the programmers.

*That* is juvenile; a seven-year-old can easily be found who has a more
sophisticated view of the world than this.





Yawn.

Get over it. Everyone else can adjust and read it just fine.
  #33   Report Post  
Old January 17th 16, 01:00 AM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Default Key contact restoration

On Sat, 16 Jan 2016 20:32:28 -0000, "Gareth Magennis"
wrote:

How to quote properly with Windoze Live Mail:
http://www.dusko-lolic.from.hr/wlmquote/
Mo
https://www.google.com/#q=windows+live+mail+usenet+quote

The customer has said he wants the keyboard for his own use, so doesn't
require it to be restored to original condition, so I am now thinking I
might be able to find a 16 way keypad and wire it directly to the switching
matrix, and pretty much glue it to the top panel.
(He now realises ripping out the old pads because they didn't work properly
was not a good idea. I think he has been using a screwdriver to operate the
pads)


Well, if you're going to butcher the synth, then it might be possible
to just solder in some switches with a long shaft. Something like
these:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/221708447229
Yes, that's 100 pcs for $1.74. I bought 1,000 and no problems. The
extra long shaft is handy for attaching a push button. If it sticks
through the synth panel, you win.

It will need some hacking because from memory, 0 - 7 have a common line, 8 &
9 use part of another, and the other switches I think are kind of random in
the matrix.


No hacking required with the above suggestion.

Am I getting a commission on this deal?

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

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  #34   Report Post  
Old January 17th 16, 01:48 AM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Default Key contact restoration



"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message
...

On Sat, 16 Jan 2016 20:32:28 -0000, "Gareth Magennis"
wrote:

How to quote properly with Windoze Live Mail:
http://www.dusko-lolic.from.hr/wlmquote/
Mo
https://www.google.com/#q=windows+live+mail+usenet+quote

The customer has said he wants the keyboard for his own use, so doesn't
require it to be restored to original condition, so I am now thinking I
might be able to find a 16 way keypad and wire it directly to the switching
matrix, and pretty much glue it to the top panel.
(He now realises ripping out the old pads because they didn't work properly
was not a good idea. I think he has been using a screwdriver to operate
the
pads)


Well, if you're going to butcher the synth, then it might be possible
to just solder in some switches with a long shaft. Something like
these:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/221708447229
Yes, that's 100 pcs for $1.74. I bought 1,000 and no problems. The
extra long shaft is handy for attaching a push button. If it sticks
through the synth panel, you win.

It will need some hacking because from memory, 0 - 7 have a common line, 8
&
9 use part of another, and the other switches I think are kind of random in
the matrix.


No hacking required with the above suggestion.

Am I getting a commission on this deal?





Er, no, because it is not possible to solder these switches, or even mount
them, to the conductive pads on the PCB.


I am still in favour of a 16-way keypad glued to the synths top panel, with
flying leads/ribbon cable (hidden beneath such keypad) attached directly to
the keyscan ports.



Gareth.

  #35   Report Post  
Old January 17th 16, 01:59 AM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Default Key contact restoration

On Sun, 17 Jan 2016 00:48:23 -0000, "Gareth Magennis"
wrote:

Er, no, because it is not possible to solder these switches, or even mount
them, to the conductive pads on the PCB.


They don't need a low resistance connection. Just a connection. You
can probably glue them in place with some hot melt glue. Or, if you
want something better, solder tiny squares of sheet copper to the
switch legs, and glue that in place. If you like spending your
customers money, try some conductive graphite flake or silver "paint"
and bury that under a layer of hot melt glue.

I am still in favour of a 16-way keypad glued to the synths top panel, with
flying leads/ribbon cable (hidden beneath such keypad) attached directly to
the keyscan ports.


Common decency, aesthetics, and my moral obligation to clean living
prevent me from offering an opinion of that idea. Sure, it will work,
but will be seriously ugly and messy. It's ok to fix something but
when you're done, it has to look good. Perception is everything,
which begs the question of whether the customer is going to pay for a
hacked keypad fix.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus



  #36   Report Post  
Old January 17th 16, 02:22 AM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Default Key contact restoration



"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message
...

On Sun, 17 Jan 2016 00:48:23 -0000, "Gareth Magennis"
wrote:

Er, no, because it is not possible to solder these switches, or even mount
them, to the conductive pads on the PCB.


They don't need a low resistance connection. Just a connection. You
can probably glue them in place with some hot melt glue. Or, if you
want something better, solder tiny squares of sheet copper to the
switch legs, and glue that in place. If you like spending your
customers money, try some conductive graphite flake or silver "paint"
and bury that under a layer of hot melt glue.

I am still in favour of a 16-way keypad glued to the synths top panel, with
flying leads/ribbon cable (hidden beneath such keypad) attached directly to
the keyscan ports.


Common decency, aesthetics, and my moral obligation to clean living
prevent me from offering an opinion of that idea. Sure, it will work,
but will be seriously ugly and messy. It's ok to fix something but
when you're done, it has to look good. Perception is everything,
which begs the question of whether the customer is going to pay for a
hacked keypad fix.





Well, exactly. Though I'm privy to information you are not, being as I have
talked to the customer.

He knows he has really f888ed up this keyboard, but is really only
interested in having some way to program it, now he has destroyed the input
capability.
He just wants some way of using it in his studio, aesthetics are not part of
the equation.

I'm thinking I could perhaps knock up a 16 way keypad and hardwire it in,
say, 5 hours? (not counting the hours of research I am currently
undertaking)
Then I would be charging him something like 2 or 3 hours, and we would all
be happy.



Sometimes Work and hobby, and just trying to help someone out, merge into
something you actually might quite like to attempt!




Gareth.



  #37   Report Post  
Old January 17th 16, 06:30 AM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Default Key contact restoration

On Saturday, January 16, 2016 at 5:40:15 PM UTC-8, Gareth Magennis wrote:

...really only
interested in having some way to program it, now he has destroyed the input
capability.
He just wants some way of using it in his studio, aesthetics are not part of
the equation.

I'm thinking I could perhaps knock up a 16 way keypad and hardwire it in,
say, 5 hours? (not counting the hours of research I am currently
undertaking)


Oh, just buy a 4x4 keyypad, they[re not completely unavailable

https://www.adafruit.com/products/1611

Hand-wiring would be one way. If the buttons magically line up, just cut the membrane
part off and do a transplant.
  #38   Report Post  
Old January 17th 16, 10:36 AM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Posts: 5,186
Default Key contact restoration

On 16/01/2016 19:40, N_Cook wrote:
On 16/01/2016 18:44, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 16 Jan 2016 10:32:36 +0000, N_Cook wrote:

Is it simple on/off contacts or is change of R monitored for key
"action"


http://oi65.tinypic.com/14xdmo3.jpg
The piano keys on a synthesizer might require some form of velocity
sensing which most assuredly is NOT resistive. The buttons in the
above photo are for turning things on/off and are therefore simple
on/off connections.
http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/key-feel-and-response-of-keyboards.html





I don't know how many contacts are required.
I just tried taking a standard simple 10x10mm footprint click switch
apart , parts just clipped together. Cutting a disc of thin 1mm
silicone rubber, placing over the dome contact and reassembling , the
click noise and abrupt click action disappears, but still functions.
If they can be soldered to the pcb, ignoring the resistive pads, then
only a matter of fudging the right size and height of top protrusion to
glue over the stem of the switches,if necessary .
Well thats my halfpennyworth


I read original ref as top manual for top pannel. The above idea was for
unobtainium contacts under piano keys, rather than just a controls
pannel where any old switches , in place of pcb pad contacts, would do


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