I am trying to find a schematic for my Sanyo DS25530 TV. I found
Sam's fotofacts online, but they want $20-30 depending on whether
you download or order hardcopy. An email to Sanyo generated a reply
that gave me an 1-800 number to call for parts.

It seems to me that it would be a simple matter to make these schematics
available online for free. In Sanyo's case they already do this for owner's
manuals. In this day and age, I would expect these to be available at
the manufacturer's website in .pdf format. Is this an example of price
goudging?

Regards,
Jeff Stephens

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------
Many media people have been journalism and/or communication majors. Most of
these programs have little analytical rigor. They are a dumping ground for
the most ill-prepared students.

Walter E. Williams, PhD
Professor of Economics
George Mason University

"Jeff Stephens" writes:

I am trying to find a schematic for my Sanyo DS25530 TV. I found
Sam's fotofacts online, but they want $20-30 depending on whether
you download or order hardcopy. An email to Sanyo generated a reply
that gave me an 1-800 number to call for parts.

Your large public library may subscribe toe Sams' in which case it
will only cost you for copying. Or, is that too expensive?

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ Home Page: http://www.repairfaq.org/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Site Info: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

Important: The email address in this message header may no longer work. To
contact me, please use the Feedback Form at repairfaq.org. Thanks.

"Jeff Stephens" writes:

I am trying to find a schematic for my Sanyo DS25530 TV. I found
Sam's fotofacts online, but they want $20-30 depending on whether
you download or order hardcopy. An email to Sanyo generated a reply
that gave me an 1-800 number to call for parts.

Your large public library may subscribe toe Sams' in which case it
will only cost you for copying. Or, is that too expensive?

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ Home Page: http://www.repairfaq.org/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Site Info: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

Important: The email address in this message header may no longer work. To
contact me, please use the Feedback Form at repairfaq.org. Thanks.

Whereas On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:49:35 GMT, "Jeff Stephens"
scribbled:
, I thus relpy:
I am trying to find a schematic for my Sanyo DS25530 TV. I found
Sam's fotofacts online, but they want $20-30 depending on whether
you download or order hardcopy. An email to Sanyo generated a reply
that gave me an 1-800 number to call for parts.

It seems to me that it would be a simple matter to make these schematics
available online for free. In Sanyo's case they already do this for owner's
manuals. In this day and age, I would expect these to be available at
the manufacturer's website in .pdf format. Is this an example of price
goudging?

Regards,
Jeff Stephens


And it would be a simple matter to put MP3s on line, and elimeinate
the trouble of record stores and such.

The fact is, that it costs money to produce those manuals, above the
finite cost of printing/shipping them.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------
Many media people have been journalism and/or communication majors. Most of
these programs have little analytical rigor. They are a dumping ground for
the most ill-prepared students.

Walter E. Williams, PhD
Professor of Economics
George Mason University


-- Gary J. Tait . Email is at yahoo.com ; ID:classicsat

Whereas On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:49:35 GMT, "Jeff Stephens"
scribbled:
, I thus relpy:
I am trying to find a schematic for my Sanyo DS25530 TV. I found
Sam's fotofacts online, but they want $20-30 depending on whether
you download or order hardcopy. An email to Sanyo generated a reply
that gave me an 1-800 number to call for parts.

It seems to me that it would be a simple matter to make these schematics
available online for free. In Sanyo's case they already do this for owner's
manuals. In this day and age, I would expect these to be available at
the manufacturer's website in .pdf format. Is this an example of price
goudging?

Regards,
Jeff Stephens


And it would be a simple matter to put MP3s on line, and elimeinate
the trouble of record stores and such.

The fact is, that it costs money to produce those manuals, above the
finite cost of printing/shipping them.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------
Many media people have been journalism and/or communication majors. Most of
these programs have little analytical rigor. They are a dumping ground for
the most ill-prepared students.

Walter E. Williams, PhD
Professor of Economics
George Mason University


-- Gary J. Tait . Email is at yahoo.com ; ID:classicsat

It seems to me that it would be a simple matter to make these
schematics
available online for free. In Sanyo's case they already do this for
owner's
manuals. In this day and age, I would expect these to be available at
the manufacturer's website in .pdf format. Is this an example of price
goudging?

Regards,
Jeff Stephens


And it would be a simple matter to put MP3s on line, and elimeinate
the trouble of record stores and such.

The fact is, that it costs money to produce those manuals, above the
finite cost of printing/shipping them.

Hey guys, lighten up. I don't think it is unreasonable to expect to get
these
for free. If necessary, the mfrs. could up the price of the TV a couple of
bucks and the cost would be included in the price. Then, a simple matter
to post the file to their website. I don't need a hardcopy of the owner's
manual which came with my TV as long as I can download it from the
internet. For those who don't have a computer or internet access you can
go to your local library and use theirs.

Regards,
Jeff S



---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
---------------
Many media people have been journalism and/or communication majors. Most
of
these programs have little analytical rigor. They are a dumping ground
for
the most ill-prepared students.

Walter E. Williams, PhD
Professor of Economics
George Mason University


-- Gary J. Tait . Email is at yahoo.com ; ID:classicsat

It seems to me that it would be a simple matter to make these
schematics
available online for free. In Sanyo's case they already do this for
owner's
manuals. In this day and age, I would expect these to be available at
the manufacturer's website in .pdf format. Is this an example of price
goudging?

Regards,
Jeff Stephens


And it would be a simple matter to put MP3s on line, and elimeinate
the trouble of record stores and such.

The fact is, that it costs money to produce those manuals, above the
finite cost of printing/shipping them.

Hey guys, lighten up. I don't think it is unreasonable to expect to get
these
for free. If necessary, the mfrs. could up the price of the TV a couple of
bucks and the cost would be included in the price. Then, a simple matter
to post the file to their website. I don't need a hardcopy of the owner's
manual which came with my TV as long as I can download it from the
internet. For those who don't have a computer or internet access you can
go to your local library and use theirs.

Regards,
Jeff S



---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
---------------
Many media people have been journalism and/or communication majors. Most
of
these programs have little analytical rigor. They are a dumping ground
for
the most ill-prepared students.

Walter E. Williams, PhD
Professor of Economics
George Mason University


-- Gary J. Tait . Email is at yahoo.com ; ID:classicsat

On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:49:35 GMT, "Jeff Stephens"
put finger to keyboard and composed:

I am trying to find a schematic for my Sanyo DS25530 TV. I found
Sam's fotofacts online, but they want $20-30 depending on whether
you download or order hardcopy. An email to Sanyo generated a reply
that gave me an 1-800 number to call for parts.

It seems to me that it would be a simple matter to make these schematics
available online for free. In Sanyo's case they already do this for owner's
manuals. In this day and age, I would expect these to be available at
the manufacturer's website in .pdf format. Is this an example of price
goudging?

I agree that service manuals should be freely available in digital
format from the manufacturer's website. The cost of paper manuals
often prohibits the economical repair of consumer goods, which results
in these goods being prematurely discarded. Pester your local Greenie
for a change to the legislation.


- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 's' from my address when replying by email.

On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:49:35 GMT, "Jeff Stephens"
put finger to keyboard and composed:

I am trying to find a schematic for my Sanyo DS25530 TV. I found
Sam's fotofacts online, but they want $20-30 depending on whether
you download or order hardcopy. An email to Sanyo generated a reply
that gave me an 1-800 number to call for parts.

It seems to me that it would be a simple matter to make these schematics
available online for free. In Sanyo's case they already do this for owner's
manuals. In this day and age, I would expect these to be available at
the manufacturer's website in .pdf format. Is this an example of price
goudging?

I agree that service manuals should be freely available in digital
format from the manufacturer's website. The cost of paper manuals
often prohibits the economical repair of consumer goods, which results
in these goods being prematurely discarded. Pester your local Greenie
for a change to the legislation.


- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 's' from my address when replying by email.

Phoo-ey! It wasn't that long ago that schematics were included with *every*
TV...at least the ones I had occasion to deal with as a
consumer/experimenter.

It's not like just 'anyone' can take advantage of one, anyway, or that it
really costs anything to include it in the price of the set.

jak

"Gary Tait" wrote in message
...
Whereas On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:49:35 GMT, "Jeff Stephens"
scribbled:
, I thus relpy:
I am trying to find a schematic for my Sanyo DS25530 TV. I found
Sam's fotofacts online, but they want $20-30 depending on whether
you download or order hardcopy. An email to Sanyo generated a reply
that gave me an 1-800 number to call for parts.

It seems to me that it would be a simple matter to make these
schematics
available online for free. In Sanyo's case they already do this for
owner's
manuals. In this day and age, I would expect these to be available at
the manufacturer's website in .pdf format. Is this an example of price
goudging?

Regards,
Jeff Stephens


And it would be a simple matter to put MP3s on line, and elimeinate
the trouble of record stores and such.

The fact is, that it costs money to produce those manuals, above the
finite cost of printing/shipping them.



---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
---------------
Many media people have been journalism and/or communication majors. Most
of
these programs have little analytical rigor. They are a dumping ground
for
the most ill-prepared students.

Walter E. Williams, PhD
Professor of Economics
George Mason University


-- Gary J. Tait . Email is at yahoo.com ; ID:classicsat

Phoo-ey! It wasn't that long ago that schematics were included with *every*
TV...at least the ones I had occasion to deal with as a
consumer/experimenter.

It's not like just 'anyone' can take advantage of one, anyway, or that it
really costs anything to include it in the price of the set.

jak

"Gary Tait" wrote in message
...
Whereas On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:49:35 GMT, "Jeff Stephens"
scribbled:
, I thus relpy:
I am trying to find a schematic for my Sanyo DS25530 TV. I found
Sam's fotofacts online, but they want $20-30 depending on whether
you download or order hardcopy. An email to Sanyo generated a reply
that gave me an 1-800 number to call for parts.

It seems to me that it would be a simple matter to make these
schematics
available online for free. In Sanyo's case they already do this for
owner's
manuals. In this day and age, I would expect these to be available at
the manufacturer's website in .pdf format. Is this an example of price
goudging?

Regards,
Jeff Stephens


And it would be a simple matter to put MP3s on line, and elimeinate
the trouble of record stores and such.

The fact is, that it costs money to produce those manuals, above the
finite cost of printing/shipping them.



---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
---------------
Many media people have been journalism and/or communication majors. Most
of
these programs have little analytical rigor. They are a dumping ground
for
the most ill-prepared students.

Walter E. Williams, PhD
Professor of Economics
George Mason University


-- Gary J. Tait . Email is at yahoo.com ; ID:classicsat

On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 18:31:55 GMT, "Jeff Stephens"
wrote:


It seems to me that it would be a simple matter to make these
schematics
available online for free. In Sanyo's case they already do this for
owner's
manuals. In this day and age, I would expect these to be available at
the manufacturer's website in .pdf format. Is this an example of price
goudging?

Regards,
Jeff Stephens


And it would be a simple matter to put MP3s on line, and elimeinate
the trouble of record stores and such.

The fact is, that it costs money to produce those manuals, above the
finite cost of printing/shipping them.

Hey guys, lighten up.

What's to lighten up about with that comment? It captures the entire
idea behind this.

I don't think it is unreasonable to expect to get
these
for free. If necessary, the mfrs. could up the price of the TV a couple of
bucks and the cost would be included in the price. Then, a simple matter
to post the file to their website. I don't need a hardcopy of the owner's
manual which came with my TV as long as I can download it from the
internet. For those who don't have a computer or internet access you can
go to your local library and use theirs.

The reason why stuff is so cheaply made nowadays is because consumers
voted, with their buying choices. If you add cost, even with added
value, you'll alienate the majority of customers. How many people do
you really think will ever want a schematic for their consumer
electronics. It doesn't make sense, common, or marketing, for the
manufacturers to do this...so, they don't.

Tom


Regards,
Jeff S



---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
---------------
Many media people have been journalism and/or communication majors. Most
of
these programs have little analytical rigor. They are a dumping ground
for
the most ill-prepared students.

Walter E. Williams, PhD
Professor of Economics
George Mason University


-- Gary J. Tait . Email is at yahoo.com ; ID:classicsat

On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 18:31:55 GMT, "Jeff Stephens"
wrote:


It seems to me that it would be a simple matter to make these
schematics
available online for free. In Sanyo's case they already do this for
owner's
manuals. In this day and age, I would expect these to be available at
the manufacturer's website in .pdf format. Is this an example of price
goudging?

Regards,
Jeff Stephens


And it would be a simple matter to put MP3s on line, and elimeinate
the trouble of record stores and such.

The fact is, that it costs money to produce those manuals, above the
finite cost of printing/shipping them.

Hey guys, lighten up.

What's to lighten up about with that comment? It captures the entire
idea behind this.

I don't think it is unreasonable to expect to get
these
for free. If necessary, the mfrs. could up the price of the TV a couple of
bucks and the cost would be included in the price. Then, a simple matter
to post the file to their website. I don't need a hardcopy of the owner's
manual which came with my TV as long as I can download it from the
internet. For those who don't have a computer or internet access you can
go to your local library and use theirs.

The reason why stuff is so cheaply made nowadays is because consumers
voted, with their buying choices. If you add cost, even with added
value, you'll alienate the majority of customers. How many people do
you really think will ever want a schematic for their consumer
electronics. It doesn't make sense, common, or marketing, for the
manufacturers to do this...so, they don't.

Tom


Regards,
Jeff S



---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
---------------
Many media people have been journalism and/or communication majors. Most
of
these programs have little analytical rigor. They are a dumping ground
for
the most ill-prepared students.

Walter E. Williams, PhD
Professor of Economics
George Mason University


-- Gary J. Tait . Email is at yahoo.com ; ID:classicsat

No, it's a public liability issue.

In these litigious times, inclusion of a circuit diagram with the set, or
making it freely available on the manufacturer's website could be seen as an
invitation and endorsement of 'have a go' repairers, who would undoubtedly
sue the manufacturer in the event of a death or serious injury involving
themselves or their family. It would also provide even less incentive for
authorised repair shops to invest in staff, training and equipment in what
is already a tough trade, not to mention the increased numbers of bodged
repairs caused and hassle that goes with them.



"Jeff Stephens" wrote in message
.. .
I am trying to find a schematic for my Sanyo DS25530 TV. I found
Sam's fotofacts online, but they want $20-30 depending on whether
you download or order hardcopy. An email to Sanyo generated a reply
that gave me an 1-800 number to call for parts.

It seems to me that it would be a simple matter to make these schematics
available online for free. In Sanyo's case they already do this for owner's
manuals. In this day and age, I would expect these to be available at
the manufacturer's website in .pdf format. Is this an example of price
goudging?

Regards,
Jeff Stephens

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------
Many media people have been journalism and/or communication majors. Most of
these programs have little analytical rigor. They are a dumping ground for
the most ill-prepared students.

Walter E. Williams, PhD
Professor of Economics
George Mason University

No, it's a public liability issue.

In these litigious times, inclusion of a circuit diagram with the set, or
making it freely available on the manufacturer's website could be seen as an
invitation and endorsement of 'have a go' repairers, who would undoubtedly
sue the manufacturer in the event of a death or serious injury involving
themselves or their family. It would also provide even less incentive for
authorised repair shops to invest in staff, training and equipment in what
is already a tough trade, not to mention the increased numbers of bodged
repairs caused and hassle that goes with them.



"Jeff Stephens" wrote in message
.. .
I am trying to find a schematic for my Sanyo DS25530 TV. I found
Sam's fotofacts online, but they want $20-30 depending on whether
you download or order hardcopy. An email to Sanyo generated a reply
that gave me an 1-800 number to call for parts.

It seems to me that it would be a simple matter to make these schematics
available online for free. In Sanyo's case they already do this for owner's
manuals. In this day and age, I would expect these to be available at
the manufacturer's website in .pdf format. Is this an example of price
goudging?

Regards,
Jeff Stephens

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------
Many media people have been journalism and/or communication majors. Most of
these programs have little analytical rigor. They are a dumping ground for
the most ill-prepared students.

Walter E. Williams, PhD
Professor of Economics
George Mason University

Whereas On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 17:34:41 -0500, "jakdedert"
scribbled:
, I thus relpy:
Phoo-ey! It wasn't that long ago that schematics were included with *every*
TV...at least the ones I had occasion to deal with as a
consumer/experimenter.

I don't know when that was, but the most I've ever seen in televisions
was a parts layout diagram, and that was before the all-in-one main
boards. True, I have seen them glued inside import radios from the
1970s, and some CB gear, and Tandy was at one time good for including
a schematic with some of their gear. I have also seen them reithr
glued to the back of large appliances, or tucked into the control
panel.

It's not like just 'anyone' can take advantage of one, anyway, or that it
really costs anything to include it in the price of the set.


It does, printing and gluing, not to mention liability.

jak

"Gary Tait" wrote in message
.. .
Whereas On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:49:35 GMT, "Jeff Stephens"
scribbled:
, I thus relpy:
I am trying to find a schematic for my Sanyo DS25530 TV. I found
Sam's fotofacts online, but they want $20-30 depending on whether
you download or order hardcopy. An email to Sanyo generated a reply
that gave me an 1-800 number to call for parts.

It seems to me that it would be a simple matter to make these
schematics
available online for free. In Sanyo's case they already do this for
owner's
manuals. In this day and age, I would expect these to be available at
the manufacturer's website in .pdf format. Is this an example of price
goudging?

Regards,
Jeff Stephens


And it would be a simple matter to put MP3s on line, and elimeinate
the trouble of record stores and such.

The fact is, that it costs money to produce those manuals, above the
finite cost of printing/shipping them.



---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
---------------
Many media people have been journalism and/or communication majors. Most
of
these programs have little analytical rigor. They are a dumping ground
for
the most ill-prepared students.

Walter E. Williams, PhD
Professor of Economics
George Mason University


-- Gary J. Tait . Email is at yahoo.com ; ID:classicsat


-- Gary J. Tait . Email is at yahoo.com ; ID:classicsat

Whereas On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 17:34:41 -0500, "jakdedert"
scribbled:
, I thus relpy:
Phoo-ey! It wasn't that long ago that schematics were included with *every*
TV...at least the ones I had occasion to deal with as a
consumer/experimenter.

I don't know when that was, but the most I've ever seen in televisions
was a parts layout diagram, and that was before the all-in-one main
boards. True, I have seen them glued inside import radios from the
1970s, and some CB gear, and Tandy was at one time good for including
a schematic with some of their gear. I have also seen them reithr
glued to the back of large appliances, or tucked into the control
panel.

It's not like just 'anyone' can take advantage of one, anyway, or that it
really costs anything to include it in the price of the set.


It does, printing and gluing, not to mention liability.

jak

"Gary Tait" wrote in message
.. .
Whereas On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:49:35 GMT, "Jeff Stephens"
scribbled:
, I thus relpy:
I am trying to find a schematic for my Sanyo DS25530 TV. I found
Sam's fotofacts online, but they want $20-30 depending on whether
you download or order hardcopy. An email to Sanyo generated a reply
that gave me an 1-800 number to call for parts.

It seems to me that it would be a simple matter to make these
schematics
available online for free. In Sanyo's case they already do this for
owner's
manuals. In this day and age, I would expect these to be available at
the manufacturer's website in .pdf format. Is this an example of price
goudging?

Regards,
Jeff Stephens


And it would be a simple matter to put MP3s on line, and elimeinate
the trouble of record stores and such.

The fact is, that it costs money to produce those manuals, above the
finite cost of printing/shipping them.



---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
---------------
Many media people have been journalism and/or communication majors. Most
of
these programs have little analytical rigor. They are a dumping ground
for
the most ill-prepared students.

Walter E. Williams, PhD
Professor of Economics
George Mason University


-- Gary J. Tait . Email is at yahoo.com ; ID:classicsat


-- Gary J. Tait . Email is at yahoo.com ; ID:classicsat

Whereas On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 07:43:41 +1000, Franc Zabkar
scribbled:
, I thus relpy:
On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:49:35 GMT, "Jeff Stephens"
put finger to keyboard and composed:

I am trying to find a schematic for my Sanyo DS25530 TV. I found
Sam's fotofacts online, but they want $20-30 depending on whether
you download or order hardcopy. An email to Sanyo generated a reply
that gave me an 1-800 number to call for parts.

It seems to me that it would be a simple matter to make these schematics
available online for free. In Sanyo's case they already do this for owner's
manuals. In this day and age, I would expect these to be available at
the manufacturer's website in .pdf format. Is this an example of price
goudging?

I agree that service manuals should be freely available in digital
format from the manufacturer's website. The cost of paper manuals
often prohibits the economical repair of consumer goods, which results
in these goods being prematurely discarded. Pester your local Greenie
for a change to the legislation.


- Franc Zabkar

Sure, if they ban paper manuals, there is still the issue of free or
not, which is a separate issue.
-- Gary J. Tait . Email is at yahoo.com ; ID:classicsat

Whereas On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 07:43:41 +1000, Franc Zabkar
scribbled:
, I thus relpy:
On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:49:35 GMT, "Jeff Stephens"
put finger to keyboard and composed:

I am trying to find a schematic for my Sanyo DS25530 TV. I found
Sam's fotofacts online, but they want $20-30 depending on whether
you download or order hardcopy. An email to Sanyo generated a reply
that gave me an 1-800 number to call for parts.

It seems to me that it would be a simple matter to make these schematics
available online for free. In Sanyo's case they already do this for owner's
manuals. In this day and age, I would expect these to be available at
the manufacturer's website in .pdf format. Is this an example of price
goudging?

I agree that service manuals should be freely available in digital
format from the manufacturer's website. The cost of paper manuals
often prohibits the economical repair of consumer goods, which results
in these goods being prematurely discarded. Pester your local Greenie
for a change to the legislation.


- Franc Zabkar

Sure, if they ban paper manuals, there is still the issue of free or
not, which is a separate issue.
-- Gary J. Tait . Email is at yahoo.com ; ID:classicsat

Gary Tait writes:

Whereas On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 17:34:41 -0500, "jakdedert"
scribbled:
, I thus relpy:
Phoo-ey! It wasn't that long ago that schematics were included with *every*
TV...at least the ones I had occasion to deal with as a
consumer/experimenter.

I don't know when that was, but the most I've ever seen in televisions
was a parts layout diagram, and that was before the all-in-one main
boards. True, I have seen them glued inside import radios from the
1970s, and some CB gear, and Tandy was at one time good for including
a schematic with some of their gear. I have also seen them reithr
glued to the back of large appliances, or tucked into the control
panel.

Last I saw was in a Mitsubishi from around 1985. A wonderful, high quality,
foldout schematic. Not sure if it was taped inside or included with the
customer information. Too bad that TV hasn't needed service.

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ Home Page: http://www.repairfaq.org/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Site Info: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

Important: The email address in this message header may no longer work. To
contact me, please use the Feedback Form at repairfaq.org. Thanks.

Gary Tait writes:

Whereas On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 17:34:41 -0500, "jakdedert"
scribbled:
, I thus relpy:
Phoo-ey! It wasn't that long ago that schematics were included with *every*
TV...at least the ones I had occasion to deal with as a
consumer/experimenter.

I don't know when that was, but the most I've ever seen in televisions
was a parts layout diagram, and that was before the all-in-one main
boards. True, I have seen them glued inside import radios from the
1970s, and some CB gear, and Tandy was at one time good for including
a schematic with some of their gear. I have also seen them reithr
glued to the back of large appliances, or tucked into the control
panel.

Last I saw was in a Mitsubishi from around 1985. A wonderful, high quality,
foldout schematic. Not sure if it was taped inside or included with the
customer information. Too bad that TV hasn't needed service.

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ Home Page: http://www.repairfaq.org/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Site Info: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

Important: The email address in this message header may no longer work. To
contact me, please use the Feedback Form at repairfaq.org. Thanks.

I would like to see other mfr's follow Hitachi's lead on this; after
registering with Hitachi as a repair site (free), you can access all of their
service manuals online, and download them in PDF format, suitable for burning
to CD ROM. The companies have to produce the manuals anyways, and they all have
web sites, so this seems like a good way to go. It will also encourage more
independant repair shops to repair their products. Here in Chattanooga, Sony's
lack of cooperation with us has resulted in NO service on out of warranty
Sony's within 100 miles.

I would like to see other mfr's follow Hitachi's lead on this; after
registering with Hitachi as a repair site (free), you can access all of their
service manuals online, and download them in PDF format, suitable for burning
to CD ROM. The companies have to produce the manuals anyways, and they all have
web sites, so this seems like a good way to go. It will also encourage more
independant repair shops to repair their products. Here in Chattanooga, Sony's
lack of cooperation with us has resulted in NO service on out of warranty
Sony's within 100 miles.

On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:29:17 +1200
"Nigel" wrote:

who would undoubtedly
sue the manufacturer in the event of a death or serious injury
involving themselves or their family.

Damn the US and its litigous culture

people over here just dont think like that yet we still dont get
diagrams because the manufacturers are scared.

On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:29:17 +1200
"Nigel" wrote:

who would undoubtedly
sue the manufacturer in the event of a death or serious injury
involving themselves or their family.

Damn the US and its litigous culture

people over here just dont think like that yet we still dont get
diagrams because the manufacturers are scared.

Seems like the a few GE sets I worked on in the 80's had the schematic in a
little box that snapped into the back of the set. I don't remember the
model #, but these were famous for bad solder joints where coils and
transformers were soldered directly to the board. I fixed at least two of
them with the same problem in the same location.

As far as printing cost is concerned....really?!! Come on.

And liability issues would be?

jak

"Sam Goldwasser" wrote in message
...
Gary Tait writes:

Whereas On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 17:34:41 -0500, "jakdedert"
scribbled:
, I thus relpy:
Phoo-ey! It wasn't that long ago that schematics were included with
*every*
TV...at least the ones I had occasion to deal with as a
consumer/experimenter.

I don't know when that was, but the most I've ever seen in televisions
was a parts layout diagram, and that was before the all-in-one main
boards. True, I have seen them glued inside import radios from the
1970s, and some CB gear, and Tandy was at one time good for including
a schematic with some of their gear. I have also seen them reithr
glued to the back of large appliances, or tucked into the control
panel.

Last I saw was in a Mitsubishi from around 1985. A wonderful, high
quality,
foldout schematic. Not sure if it was taped inside or included with the
customer information. Too bad that TV hasn't needed service.

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ Home Page: http://www.repairfaq.org/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Site Info: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

Important: The email address in this message header may no longer work.
To
contact me, please use the Feedback Form at repairfaq.org. Thanks.

Seems like the a few GE sets I worked on in the 80's had the schematic in a
little box that snapped into the back of the set. I don't remember the
model #, but these were famous for bad solder joints where coils and
transformers were soldered directly to the board. I fixed at least two of
them with the same problem in the same location.

As far as printing cost is concerned....really?!! Come on.

And liability issues would be?

jak

"Sam Goldwasser" wrote in message
...
Gary Tait writes:

Whereas On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 17:34:41 -0500, "jakdedert"
scribbled:
, I thus relpy:
Phoo-ey! It wasn't that long ago that schematics were included with
*every*
TV...at least the ones I had occasion to deal with as a
consumer/experimenter.

I don't know when that was, but the most I've ever seen in televisions
was a parts layout diagram, and that was before the all-in-one main
boards. True, I have seen them glued inside import radios from the
1970s, and some CB gear, and Tandy was at one time good for including
a schematic with some of their gear. I have also seen them reithr
glued to the back of large appliances, or tucked into the control
panel.

Last I saw was in a Mitsubishi from around 1985. A wonderful, high
quality,
foldout schematic. Not sure if it was taped inside or included with the
customer information. Too bad that TV hasn't needed service.

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ Home Page: http://www.repairfaq.org/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Site Info: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

Important: The email address in this message header may no longer work.
To
contact me, please use the Feedback Form at repairfaq.org. Thanks.

"Ian Molton" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:29:17 +1200
"Nigel" wrote:

who would undoubtedly
sue the manufacturer in the event of a death or serious injury
involving themselves or their family.

Damn the US and its litigous culture

people over here just dont think like that yet we still dont get
diagrams because the manufacturers are scared.

I just don't 'buy' it. A simple schematic is going to be useless to anyone
other than a person with at least 'some' technical knowledge; while on the
other hand, it would be invaluable to a person who could read it. Providing
it is going to cost--what?--maybe $0.002...the cost of the paper? After
all, it's not like they didn't have the original to copy. A schematic most
certainly *must* be drawn in order to manufacture the device in the first
place...and it's not like the manufacturers are going to provide any support
to a product which has gone defective anyway...especially after it's past
it's 'service life.'

Where's the liability? There are already placarded warnings on the back of
every electrical device against opening up the unit unless one has the
requisite technical know-how.

I'm convinced it's the companies *not wanting* things to be fixed; in favor
of replacing them with brand-new devices. After all, they don't make any
money if someone fixes their TV as opposed to buying a new one.

jak

"Ian Molton" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:29:17 +1200
"Nigel" wrote:

who would undoubtedly
sue the manufacturer in the event of a death or serious injury
involving themselves or their family.

Damn the US and its litigous culture

people over here just dont think like that yet we still dont get
diagrams because the manufacturers are scared.

I just don't 'buy' it. A simple schematic is going to be useless to anyone
other than a person with at least 'some' technical knowledge; while on the
other hand, it would be invaluable to a person who could read it. Providing
it is going to cost--what?--maybe $0.002...the cost of the paper? After
all, it's not like they didn't have the original to copy. A schematic most
certainly *must* be drawn in order to manufacture the device in the first
place...and it's not like the manufacturers are going to provide any support
to a product which has gone defective anyway...especially after it's past
it's 'service life.'

Where's the liability? There are already placarded warnings on the back of
every electrical device against opening up the unit unless one has the
requisite technical know-how.

I'm convinced it's the companies *not wanting* things to be fixed; in favor
of replacing them with brand-new devices. After all, they don't make any
money if someone fixes their TV as opposed to buying a new one.

jak

jakdedert wrote in message
...

"Ian Molton" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:29:17 +1200
"Nigel" wrote:

who would undoubtedly
sue the manufacturer in the event of a death or serious injury
involving themselves or their family.

Damn the US and its litigous culture

people over here just dont think like that yet we still dont get
diagrams because the manufacturers are scared.

I just don't 'buy' it. A simple schematic is going to be useless to
anyone
other than a person with at least 'some' technical knowledge; while on the
other hand, it would be invaluable to a person who could read it.
Providing
it is going to cost--what?--maybe $0.002...the cost of the paper? After
all, it's not like they didn't have the original to copy. A schematic
most
certainly *must* be drawn in order to manufacture the device in the first
place...and it's not like the manufacturers are going to provide any
support
to a product which has gone defective anyway...especially after it's past
it's 'service life.'

Where's the liability? There are already placarded warnings on the back
of
every electrical device against opening up the unit unless one has the
requisite technical know-how.

I'm convinced it's the companies *not wanting* things to be fixed; in
favor
of replacing them with brand-new devices. After all, they don't make any
money if someone fixes their TV as opposed to buying a new one.

jak


When you consider that even burglars sue if they are injured when
breaking into your property, and idiots sue (and win) because they
spill hot coffee on themselves, you cannot blame the makers if they
discourage people from attempting repairs themselves. That said, I
regard these warning notices as a challenge, and open the bloody
thing anyway ."No user servicable parts inside" Never know until
you look, lol.

jakdedert wrote in message
...

"Ian Molton" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:29:17 +1200
"Nigel" wrote:

who would undoubtedly
sue the manufacturer in the event of a death or serious injury
involving themselves or their family.

Damn the US and its litigous culture

people over here just dont think like that yet we still dont get
diagrams because the manufacturers are scared.

I just don't 'buy' it. A simple schematic is going to be useless to
anyone
other than a person with at least 'some' technical knowledge; while on the
other hand, it would be invaluable to a person who could read it.
Providing
it is going to cost--what?--maybe $0.002...the cost of the paper? After
all, it's not like they didn't have the original to copy. A schematic
most
certainly *must* be drawn in order to manufacture the device in the first
place...and it's not like the manufacturers are going to provide any
support
to a product which has gone defective anyway...especially after it's past
it's 'service life.'

Where's the liability? There are already placarded warnings on the back
of
every electrical device against opening up the unit unless one has the
requisite technical know-how.

I'm convinced it's the companies *not wanting* things to be fixed; in
favor
of replacing them with brand-new devices. After all, they don't make any
money if someone fixes their TV as opposed to buying a new one.

jak


When you consider that even burglars sue if they are injured when
breaking into your property, and idiots sue (and win) because they
spill hot coffee on themselves, you cannot blame the makers if they
discourage people from attempting repairs themselves. That said, I
regard these warning notices as a challenge, and open the bloody
thing anyway ."No user servicable parts inside" Never know until
you look, lol.

Whereas On Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:02:44 -0500, "jakdedert"
scribbled:
, I thus relpy:

"Ian Molton" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:29:17 +1200
"Nigel" wrote:

who would undoubtedly
sue the manufacturer in the event of a death or serious injury
involving themselves or their family.

Damn the US and its litigous culture

people over here just dont think like that yet we still dont get
diagrams because the manufacturers are scared.

I just don't 'buy' it. A simple schematic is going to be useless to anyone
other than a person with at least 'some' technical knowledge; while on the
other hand, it would be invaluable to a person who could read it. Providing
it is going to cost--what?--maybe $0.002...the cost of the paper? After
all, it's not like they didn't have the original to copy. A schematic most
certainly *must* be drawn in order to manufacture the device in the first
place...and it's not like the manufacturers are going to provide any support
to a product which has gone defective anyway...especially after it's past
it's 'service life.'

Where's the liability? There are already placarded warnings on the back of
every electrical device against opening up the unit unless one has the
requisite technical know-how.

I'm convinced it's the companies *not wanting* things to be fixed; in favor
of replacing them with brand-new devices. After all, they don't make any
money if someone fixes their TV as opposed to buying a new one.

jak


The liability is in that someone who thinks they know what they are
doinf futzing it up, and either burning something down, or injuring
someone, or themselves.
--
Gary J. Tait . Email is at yahoo.com ; ID:classicsat

Whereas On Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:02:44 -0500, "jakdedert"
scribbled:
, I thus relpy:

"Ian Molton" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:29:17 +1200
"Nigel" wrote:

who would undoubtedly
sue the manufacturer in the event of a death or serious injury
involving themselves or their family.

Damn the US and its litigous culture

people over here just dont think like that yet we still dont get
diagrams because the manufacturers are scared.

I just don't 'buy' it. A simple schematic is going to be useless to anyone
other than a person with at least 'some' technical knowledge; while on the
other hand, it would be invaluable to a person who could read it. Providing
it is going to cost--what?--maybe $0.002...the cost of the paper? After
all, it's not like they didn't have the original to copy. A schematic most
certainly *must* be drawn in order to manufacture the device in the first
place...and it's not like the manufacturers are going to provide any support
to a product which has gone defective anyway...especially after it's past
it's 'service life.'

Where's the liability? There are already placarded warnings on the back of
every electrical device against opening up the unit unless one has the
requisite technical know-how.

I'm convinced it's the companies *not wanting* things to be fixed; in favor
of replacing them with brand-new devices. After all, they don't make any
money if someone fixes their TV as opposed to buying a new one.

jak


The liability is in that someone who thinks they know what they are
doinf futzing it up, and either burning something down, or injuring
someone, or themselves.
--
Gary J. Tait . Email is at yahoo.com ; ID:classicsat