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NE-51 Neon Bulbs
Just acquired a bunch of these lamps. They're in the same mini-bayonet
style as lamps like the #44/47. But would anyone know if these lamps can be connected directly to 120 volts? Or do they need a resistor, @ if so, what value? |
NE-51 Neon Bulbs
Madness wrote:
Just acquired a bunch of these lamps. They're in the same mini-bayonet style as lamps like the #44/47. But would anyone know if these lamps can be connected directly to 120 volts? Or do they need a resistor, @ if so, what value? Oh, you definitely need a series resistor. About 100K is typical. Jon |
NE-51 Neon Bulbs
"Jon Elson" wrote in message ... Madness wrote: Just acquired a bunch of these lamps. They're in the same mini-bayonet style as lamps like the #44/47. But would anyone know if these lamps can be connected directly to 120 volts? Or do they need a resistor, @ if so, what value? Oh, you definitely need a series resistor. About 100K is typical. Of 3 hits from searching NE51 - voltage rating was stated variously from 105 - 120. Confusingly, one page displayed a picture of a filament bulb. If a "bunch" of them is sufficient to sacrifice one, I'd peel the base cap and see if there's a resistor in there. Anything with a plastic lens cap probably has a resistor in the base. Ionisation voltage is usually 70 - 90V, across the mains with a 100k resistor in series would reveal the volt drop of the bulb - anything much above 90V suggests an internal resistor. |
NE-51 Neon Bulbs
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NE-51 Neon Bulbs
"M Philbrook" wrote in message ... In article , says... Just acquired a bunch of these lamps. They're in the same mini-bayonet style as lamps like the #44/47. But would anyone know if these lamps can be connected directly to 120 volts? Or do they need a resistor, @ if so, what value? That lamp is set to operate at 120V AC, so no, you don't need a resistor. I do think they may be putting one in the base. A NE-2 however, does need a resistor. While some neon bulbs with a base may not need an external resistor, this one needs an external resistor. All the data sheets I looked at states they need an external resistor , usually a 220 K . http://www.bulbtown.com/B1A_NE_51_Ne...Base_p/b1a.htm |
NE-51 Neon Bulbs
On Friday, November 20, 2015 at 2:55:22 PM UTC-6, Madness wrote:
Just acquired a bunch of these lamps. They're in the same mini-bayonet style as lamps like the #44/47. But would anyone know if these lamps can be connected directly to 120 volts? Or do they need a resistor, @ if so, what value? anywhere from 100,000 - 200,000 ohms, 1/2 watt or larger. Smaller resistor, brighter light, shorter bulb life. |
NE-51 Neon Bulbs
Thanks for the replies, everyone. I forgot to mention that my lot (about
30) is of vintage GE NE-51's, not the modern "NE-2 w/ plastic lens" variety. |
NE-51 Neon Bulbs
On 11/20/2015 3:55 PM, Madness wrote:
Just acquired a bunch of these lamps. They're in the same mini-bayonet style as lamps like the #44/47. But would anyone know if these lamps can be connected directly to 120 volts? Or do they need a resistor, @ if so, what value? Hello, While I recall that they need the dropping resistor, since you have a bunch of them, I might try destructive testing, and break one apart to see if there is an internal resistor or not. Regards, Tim |
NE-51 Neon Bulbs
In article ,
Madness wrote: Just acquired a bunch of these lamps. They're in the same mini-bayonet style as lamps like the #44/47. But would anyone know if these lamps can be connected directly to 120 volts? Or do they need a resistor, @ if so, what value? Madness- NE-51 does NOT have a resistor inside! One thing you can do with them, is build a relaxation oscillator. From a 90 to 100 volt DC source, connect a series resistor, with a capacitor across the bulb. Perhaps 470K Ohms and 1 uF. Try different values to change the flashing rate. For smaller values, it can be used as an audio oscillator. Another variation is to have several bulbs, each with its series resistor. But the capacitors are connected from bulb to bulb in a ring. The result is a somewhat random flashing. I once built one with 5 generic neon lamps using two small 45 Volt batteries in series. Some people would become engrossed, trying to figure out the flashing sequence! Fred |
NE-51 Neon Bulbs
On Sat, 21 Nov 2015 10:12:31 -0500, Fred McKenzie wrote:
For smaller values, it can be used as an audio oscillator. I remember repairing a church organ that used such oscillators, one for each key... That was some 40 years ago :-) Sawtooth oscillators do produce a nice sound. Cheers! |
NE-51 Neon Bulbs
On Sat, 21 Nov 2015, Tim Schwartz wrote:
On 11/20/2015 3:55 PM, Madness wrote: Just acquired a bunch of these lamps. They're in the same mini-bayonet style as lamps like the #44/47. But would anyone know if these lamps can be connected directly to 120 volts? Or do they need a resistor, @ if so, what value? Hello, While I recall that they need the dropping resistor, since you have a bunch of them, I might try destructive testing, and break one apart to see if there is an internal resistor or not. Memory says they always needed a resistor, it's not about too much voltage, but about needed a limited current. The only time they don't need a resistor is if there is a resistor built in. Michael |
NE-51 Neon Bulbs
On Saturday, November 21, 2015 at 5:38:50 AM UTC-8, Tim Schwartz wrote:
...I might try destructive testing, and break one apart to see if there is an internal resistor or not. Regards, Tim If you take this approach, it does not have to be destructive. If you own a soldering iron, you can melt the two solder blobs on the bayonet, loosen the cement, and remove the bulb intact. After inspection, you can reglue and resolder, and the lamp will be as good as new. |
NE-51 Neon Bulbs
In article ,
Madness wrote: Thanks for the replies, everyone. I forgot to mention that my lot (about 30) is of vintage GE NE-51's, not the modern "NE-2 w/ plastic lens" variety. The 1966 GE Glow Lamp Manual says a B1A (NE-51) draws 0.3 mA with a 220k ohm resistor at 120 volts. Mark Zenier Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com) |
NE-51 Neon Bulbs
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NE-51 Neon Bulbs
In article ,
says... * As an apprentice project, I built a clock that used four 5x7 blocks of neons for a digital display. See https://picasaweb.google.com/1117418...CEDRICProject? authuser=0&feat=directlink Mike. |
NE-51 Neon Bulbs
Madness wrote:
Thanks for the replies, everyone. I forgot to mention that my lot (about 30) is of vintage GE NE-51's, not the modern "NE-2 w/ plastic lens" variety. Note that many neon bulbs had some sort of radioactive doping to get them to fire at a lower votage. I don't have any hard data, but I believe it was thorium up until the late 1940's when the US government decided that radioactive material needed supervision. It was found to be simpler to just add a small amount of radioactive krypton gas to the neon. However the half life of the krypton gas is about 10 years. So neon bulbs made in 1970 would have about 1/20th of the krypton still radioactive, which is probably no longer able to make a difference. Speaking of radioactivity, if you are looking for an unusual project to make from them, they can be used to make geiger counters. I don't think they are very sensitive, but if you live in the US, the red Fesita Ware department of any thrift shop would make it "go nuts". :-) Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson, N3OWJ/4X1GM/KBUH7245/KBUW5379 |
NE-51 Neon Bulbs
"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" wrote in message ... Madness wrote: Thanks for the replies, everyone. I forgot to mention that my lot (about 30) is of vintage GE NE-51's, not the modern "NE-2 w/ plastic lens" variety. Note that many neon bulbs had some sort of radioactive doping to get them to fire at a lower votage. I don't have any hard data, but I believe it was thorium up until the late 1940's when the US government decided that radioactive material needed supervision. Most valves have some radioactive material in the cathode coating to increase emission, gas mantles also have some as it makes the illumination more intense. IWHT: the radioactive content of a neon bulb is insignificant compared to either of those examples. |
NE-51 Neon Bulbs
On Friday, November 20, 2015 at 3:55:22 PM UTC-5, Madness wrote:
Just acquired a bunch of these lamps. They're in the same mini-bayonet style as lamps like the #44/47. But would anyone know if these lamps can be connected directly to 120 volts? Or do they need a resistor, @ if so, what value? Mpfffff.... This lamp was used by Zenith and more than a few other manufacturers in the 1950s/1960s as an indicator lamp (on/off) at about the time that radio manufacturers started to become concerned about user-servicing and hot-chassis radios - something that never really bothered them in the past. The worked on the theory that a neon lamp was far less likely to burn out than the old standby #44 or #47, so that loose fingers were less likely to get nipped. ASIDE: Audio devices held on to incandescent lamps (With specific reference to the 47) well into the 80s, before shifting - very slowly - to LEDs or Fluorescent lamps. But, they had transformers on board to isolate the chassis. It is designed to operate at ~120V AC. It _CAN_ operate at ~120V DC, but only one post will light. It will trip (glow) at about 90V +/-. Unless there is a voltage dropper in the circuit, it will fail quickly at 220 or 240 V - that is voltages outside of Japan and the Americas. As supplied, it has a 100K resistor in series with the lamp. For conversion to 220V, I have heard values of up to an *additional* 220K in series. Try there and work back if you wish to operate at 220V. As about 2/3 of my hobby time is dedicated to vintage radios, I am quite familiar with, and keep a bunch of these lamps in my spares-box. Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA |
NE-51 Neon Bulbs
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NE-51 Neon Bulbs
"Fred McKenzie" wrote in message ... In article , Madness wrote: Just acquired a bunch of these lamps. They're in the same mini-bayonet style as lamps like the #44/47. But would anyone know if these lamps can be connected directly to 120 volts? Or do they need a resistor, @ if so, what value? Madness- NE-51 does NOT have a resistor inside! One thing you can do with them, is build a relaxation oscillator. From a 90 to 100 volt DC source, connect a series resistor, with a capacitor across the bulb. Perhaps 470K Ohms and 1 uF. Try different values to change the flashing rate. For smaller values, it can be used as an audio oscillator. Another variation is to have several bulbs, each with its series resistor. But the capacitors are connected from bulb to bulb in a ring. The result is a somewhat random flashing. I once built one with 5 generic neon lamps using two small 45 Volt batteries in series. Some people would become engrossed, trying to figure out the flashing sequence! Fred Ha ! I built one too when I was an apprentice. I seem to think that the circuit was in Practically Witless magazine. There used to be an aerosol deodorant at the time which had a blue spherical cap. I had about 12 neons in my version, and had them poked through holes in one of those caps - a bit like a WW2 sea mine. Quite by chance, the neon that flashed slowest was the one that poked vertically out of the top. It was all run from a single 90 volt battery, housed in a box made from modeling plasticard under the deodorant cap. The one thing that I do recall is that it also had a switch to alter the way the neons flashed. I seem to remember that one leg of all the neons were joined together and connected to battery -ve. Likewise, one leg of all the caps were joined together. When they were left 'floating', the flash of the individual neons was very 'soft' and hypnotic and random. The switch took the commoned capacitor legs to battery -ve. With the switch closed, the flashes were much 'sharper' making the whole display much more 'frenetic' looking. The current drain was so small that a battery lasted a year or more (which was just as well, as they were expensive. I think I still have a bunch of neons somewhere. I might try knocking one up again ... :-) Arfa |
NE-51 Neon Bulbs
MerĨi a tous je vais verifier la capacite qui se trouve avant le transfo d alimentation a +merci pour l information
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NE-51 Neon Bulbs
MJC wrote:
In article , says... * As an apprentice project, I built a clock that used four 5x7 blocks of neons for a digital display. See https://picasaweb.google.com/1117418...CEDRICProject? authuser=0&feat=directlink Nice case. How old is that thing? What's inside? |
NE-51 Neon Bulbs
On Tuesday, November 24, 2015 at 4:32:36 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Friday, November 20, 2015 at 3:55:22 PM UTC-5, Madness wrote: Just acquired a bunch of these lamps. They're in the same mini-bayonet style as lamps like the #44/47. But would anyone know if these lamps can be connected directly to 120 volts? Or do they need a resistor, @ if so, what value? Mpfffff.... This lamp was used by Zenith and more than a few other manufacturers in the 1950s/1960s as an indicator lamp (on/off) at about the time that radio manufacturers started to become concerned about user-servicing and hot-chassis radios - something that never really bothered them in the past. The worked on the theory that a neon lamp was far less likely to burn out than the old standby #44 or #47, so that loose fingers were less likely to get nipped. ASIDE: Audio devices held on to incandescent lamps (With specific reference to the 47) well into the 80s, before shifting - very slowly - to LEDs or Fluorescent lamps. But, they had transformers on board to isolate the chassis. It is designed to operate at ~120V AC. It _CAN_ operate at ~120V DC, but only one post will light. It will trip (glow) at about 90V +/-. Unless there is a voltage dropper in the circuit, it will fail quickly at 220 or 240 V - that is voltages outside of Japan and the Americas. As supplied, it has a 100K resistor in series with the lamp. For conversion to 220V, I have heard values of up to an *additional* 220K in series. Try there and work back if you wish to operate at 220V. As about 2/3 of my hobby time is dedicated to vintage radios, I am quite familiar with, and keep a bunch of these lamps in my spares-box. Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA Yes antique radios. I like them to with filaments glowing in the tubes.For younger members the tube is old glass bulb valve with the led on top. Some of them have the magic green eye for RF strength if you are lucky enough to find one. Neat trick that you can do with the old variable capacity plate tuner. Charge it to 30 volts with a neon bulb across. When you turn the tuning knob to open the plates the neon bulb will flash? With only 30 volts how could it flash a neon bulb with a 80 volt trigger voltage? |
NE-51 Neon Bulbs
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NE-51 Neon Bulbs
On 03/12/15 02:27, Arfa Daily wrote:
"Fred McKenzie" wrote in message ... In article , Madness wrote: Just acquired a bunch of these lamps. They're in the same mini-bayonet style as lamps like the #44/47. But would anyone know if these lamps can be connected directly to 120 volts? Or do they need a resistor, @ if so, what value? Madness- NE-51 does NOT have a resistor inside! One thing you can do with them, is build a relaxation oscillator. From a 90 to 100 volt DC source, connect a series resistor, with a capacitor across the bulb. Perhaps 470K Ohms and 1 uF. Try different values to change the flashing rate. For smaller values, it can be used as an audio oscillator. Another variation is to have several bulbs, each with its series resistor. But the capacitors are connected from bulb to bulb in a ring. The result is a somewhat random flashing. I once built one with 5 generic neon lamps using two small 45 Volt batteries in series. Some people would become engrossed, trying to figure out the flashing sequence! Fred Ha ! I built one too when I was an apprentice. I seem to think that the circuit was in Practically Witless magazine. There used to be an aerosol deodorant at the time which had a blue spherical cap. I had about 12 neons in my version, and had them poked through holes in one of those caps - a bit like a WW2 sea mine. Quite by chance, the neon that flashed slowest was the one that poked vertically out of the top. It was all run from a single 90 volt battery, housed in a box made from modeling plasticard under the deodorant cap. The one thing that I do recall is that it also had a switch to alter the way the neons flashed. I seem to remember that one leg of all the neons were joined together and connected to battery -ve. Likewise, one leg of all the caps were joined together. When they were left 'floating', the flash of the individual neons was very 'soft' and hypnotic and random. The switch took the commoned capacitor legs to battery -ve. With the switch closed, the flashes were much 'sharper' making the whole display much more 'frenetic' looking. The current drain was so small that a battery lasted a year or more (which was just as well, as they were expensive. I think I still have a bunch of neons somewhere. I might try knocking one up again ... :-) Arfa When I was about 10, I had a Tandy Radio Shack kit of 5 neon bulbs in a row, that had a plastic box.... oh, hang on - let google find an image .. (later) that, the Science Fair Goofy-Lite http://my.core.com/~sparktron/130P1.JPG The Radio Shack, Science Fair, P-Box kits http://my.core.com/~sparktron/pbox.html Interesting that it flickered differently in the dark, or with ones finger acted up differently. Ran from 6V. There was an option of making it sequential rather than random. Schematic http://my.core.com/~sparktron/130P6.JPG I also built the Three Transistor Short Wave Regenerative Receiver kit http://my.core.com/~sparktron/110P1.JPG Happy Days. Had to be quick with the soldering iron or the box would melt :) -- Adrian C |
NE-51 Neon Bulbs
On Wednesday, December 23, 2015 at 7:57:27 AM UTC-5, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 03/12/15 02:27, Arfa Daily wrote: "Fred McKenzie" wrote in message ... In article , Madness wrote: Just acquired a bunch of these lamps. They're in the same mini-bayonet style as lamps like the #44/47. But would anyone know if these lamps can be connected directly to 120 volts? Or do they need a resistor, @ if so, what value? Madness- NE-51 does NOT have a resistor inside! One thing you can do with them, is build a relaxation oscillator. From a 90 to 100 volt DC source, connect a series resistor, with a capacitor across the bulb. Perhaps 470K Ohms and 1 uF. Try different values to change the flashing rate. For smaller values, it can be used as an audio oscillator. Another variation is to have several bulbs, each with its series resistor. But the capacitors are connected from bulb to bulb in a ring. The result is a somewhat random flashing. I once built one with 5 generic neon lamps using two small 45 Volt batteries in series. Some people would become engrossed, trying to figure out the flashing sequence! Fred Ha ! I built one too when I was an apprentice. I seem to think that the circuit was in Practically Witless magazine. There used to be an aerosol deodorant at the time which had a blue spherical cap. I had about 12 neons in my version, and had them poked through holes in one of those caps - a bit like a WW2 sea mine. Quite by chance, the neon that flashed slowest was the one that poked vertically out of the top. It was all run from a single 90 volt battery, housed in a box made from modeling plasticard under the deodorant cap. The one thing that I do recall is that it also had a switch to alter the way the neons flashed. I seem to remember that one leg of all the neons were joined together and connected to battery -ve. Likewise, one leg of all the caps were joined together. When they were left 'floating', the flash of the individual neons was very 'soft' and hypnotic and random. The switch took the commoned capacitor legs to battery -ve. With the switch closed, the flashes were much 'sharper' making the whole display much more 'frenetic' looking. The current drain was so small that a battery lasted a year or more (which was just as well, as they were expensive. I think I still have a bunch of neons somewhere. I might try knocking one up again ... :-) Arfa When I was about 10, I had a Tandy Radio Shack kit of 5 neon bulbs in a row, that had a plastic box.... oh, hang on - let google find an image .. (later) that, the Science Fair Goofy-Lite http://my.core.com/~sparktron/130P1.JPG The Radio Shack, Science Fair, P-Box kits http://my.core.com/~sparktron/pbox.html Interesting that it flickered differently in the dark, or with ones finger acted up differently. Ran from 6V. There was an option of making it sequential rather than random. Schematic http://my.core.com/~sparktron/130P6.JPG I also built the Three Transistor Short Wave Regenerative Receiver kit http://my.core.com/~sparktron/110P1.JPG Happy Days. Had to be quick with the soldering iron or the box would melt :) -- Adrian C Thanks for the trip down memory lane. 50 cents for the whole kit , that had to be the 1950s or 1960s. And the 1 tube AM radio with a 1T4 tube from your second link. That was way cool. |
NE-51 Neon Bulbs
"Adrian Caspersz" wrote in message ... On 03/12/15 02:27, Arfa Daily wrote: "Fred McKenzie" wrote in message ... In article , Madness wrote: Just acquired a bunch of these lamps. They're in the same mini-bayonet style as lamps like the #44/47. But would anyone know if these lamps can be connected directly to 120 volts? Or do they need a resistor, @ if so, what value? Madness- NE-51 does NOT have a resistor inside! One thing you can do with them, is build a relaxation oscillator. From a 90 to 100 volt DC source, connect a series resistor, with a capacitor across the bulb. Perhaps 470K Ohms and 1 uF. Try different values to change the flashing rate. For smaller values, it can be used as an audio oscillator. Another variation is to have several bulbs, each with its series resistor. But the capacitors are connected from bulb to bulb in a ring. The result is a somewhat random flashing. I once built one with 5 generic neon lamps using two small 45 Volt batteries in series. Some people would become engrossed, trying to figure out the flashing sequence! Fred Ha ! I built one too when I was an apprentice. I seem to think that the circuit was in Practically Witless magazine. There used to be an aerosol deodorant at the time which had a blue spherical cap. I had about 12 neons in my version, and had them poked through holes in one of those caps - a bit like a WW2 sea mine. Quite by chance, the neon that flashed slowest was the one that poked vertically out of the top. It was all run from a single 90 volt battery, housed in a box made from modeling plasticard under the deodorant cap. The one thing that I do recall is that it also had a switch to alter the way the neons flashed. I seem to remember that one leg of all the neons were joined together and connected to battery -ve. Likewise, one leg of all the caps were joined together. When they were left 'floating', the flash of the individual neons was very 'soft' and hypnotic and random. The switch took the commoned capacitor legs to battery -ve. With the switch closed, the flashes were much 'sharper' making the whole display much more 'frenetic' looking. The current drain was so small that a battery lasted a year or more (which was just as well, as they were expensive. I think I still have a bunch of neons somewhere. I might try knocking one up again ... :-) Arfa When I was about 10, I had a Tandy Radio Shack kit of 5 neon bulbs in a row, that had a plastic box.... oh, hang on - let google find an image .. (later) that, the Science Fair Goofy-Lite http://my.core.com/~sparktron/130P1.JPG The Radio Shack, Science Fair, P-Box kits http://my.core.com/~sparktron/pbox.html Interesting that it flickered differently in the dark, or with ones finger acted up differently. Ran from 6V. There was an option of making it sequential rather than random. Schematic http://my.core.com/~sparktron/130P6.JPG I also built the Three Transistor Short Wave Regenerative Receiver kit http://my.core.com/~sparktron/110P1.JPG My first transistor SW regen was at boarding school - the cop shop relay antenna was in a compound a few hundred yards from the school grounds, they used SW back then too............. |
NE-51 Neon Bulbs
On Wednesday, December 23, 2015 at 4:18:46 AM UTC-5, MJC wrote:
In article , says... ... Neat trick that you can do with the old variable capacity plate tuner. Charge it to 30 volts with a neon bulb across. When you turn the tuning knob to open the plates the neon bulb will flash? With only 30 volts how could it flash a neon bulb with a 80 volt trigger voltage? I wish I'd thought of doing that. But I'm amazed it works, even with beautifully cleaned insulators on your capacitor. Good demonstration of relationship between charge, voltage and capacity. (Analogue of skater's pirouette?) Mike. Great analogy. The more I think of it the hands and feet coming in for a faster pirouette is exactly the same. |
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