Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems.

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Old December 3rd 15, 11:27 AM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Default NE-51 Neon Bulbs

Merči a tous je vais verifier la capacite qui se trouve avant le transfo d alimentation a +merci pour l information

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Old December 3rd 15, 10:41 PM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Default NE-51 Neon Bulbs

MJC wrote:
In article ,
says...

* As an apprentice project, I built a clock that used four 5x7 blocks of
neons for a digital display.


See
https://picasaweb.google.com/1117418...CEDRICProject?
authuser=0&feat=directlink


Nice case. How old is that thing? What's inside?
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Old December 23rd 15, 08:34 AM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Default NE-51 Neon Bulbs

On Tuesday, November 24, 2015 at 4:32:36 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Friday, November 20, 2015 at 3:55:22 PM UTC-5, Madness wrote:
Just acquired a bunch of these lamps. They're in the same mini-bayonet
style as lamps like the #44/47. But would anyone know if these lamps can
be connected directly to 120 volts? Or do they need a resistor, @ if so,
what value?


Mpfffff....

This lamp was used by Zenith and more than a few other manufacturers in the 1950s/1960s as an indicator lamp (on/off) at about the time that radio manufacturers started to become concerned about user-servicing and hot-chassis radios - something that never really bothered them in the past. The worked on the theory that a neon lamp was far less likely to burn out than the old standby #44 or #47, so that loose fingers were less likely to get nipped. ASIDE: Audio devices held on to incandescent lamps (With specific reference to the 47) well into the 80s, before shifting - very slowly - to LEDs or Fluorescent lamps. But, they had transformers on board to isolate the chassis.

It is designed to operate at ~120V AC. It _CAN_ operate at ~120V DC, but only one post will light. It will trip (glow) at about 90V +/-.

Unless there is a voltage dropper in the circuit, it will fail quickly at 220 or 240 V - that is voltages outside of Japan and the Americas. As supplied, it has a 100K resistor in series with the lamp. For conversion to 220V, I have heard values of up to an *additional* 220K in series. Try there and work back if you wish to operate at 220V.

As about 2/3 of my hobby time is dedicated to vintage radios, I am quite familiar with, and keep a bunch of these lamps in my spares-box.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA


Yes antique radios. I like them to with filaments glowing in the tubes.For younger members the tube is old glass bulb valve with the led on top. Some of them have the magic green eye for RF strength if you are lucky enough to find one. Neat trick that you can do with the old variable capacity plate tuner. Charge it to 30 volts with a neon bulb across. When you turn the tuning knob to open the plates the neon bulb will flash? With only 30 volts how could it flash a neon bulb with a 80 volt trigger voltage?
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Old December 23rd 15, 12:57 PM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Default NE-51 Neon Bulbs

On 03/12/15 02:27, Arfa Daily wrote:


"Fred McKenzie" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Madness wrote:

Just acquired a bunch of these lamps. They're in the same mini-bayonet
style as lamps like the #44/47. But would anyone know if these lamps can
be connected directly to 120 volts? Or do they need a resistor, @ if so,
what value?


Madness-

NE-51 does NOT have a resistor inside!

One thing you can do with them, is build a relaxation oscillator. From
a 90 to 100 volt DC source, connect a series resistor, with a capacitor
across the bulb. Perhaps 470K Ohms and 1 uF. Try different values to
change the flashing rate. For smaller values, it can be used as an
audio oscillator.

Another variation is to have several bulbs, each with its series
resistor. But the capacitors are connected from bulb to bulb in a ring.
The result is a somewhat random flashing. I once built one with 5
generic neon lamps using two small 45 Volt batteries in series. Some
people would become engrossed, trying to figure out the flashing
sequence!

Fred


Ha ! I built one too when I was an apprentice. I seem to think that the
circuit was in Practically Witless magazine. There used to be an aerosol
deodorant at the time which had a blue spherical cap. I had about 12
neons in my version, and had them poked through holes in one of those
caps - a bit like a WW2 sea mine. Quite by chance, the neon that flashed
slowest was the one that poked vertically out of the top. It was all run
from a single 90 volt battery, housed in a box made from modeling
plasticard under the deodorant cap. The one thing that I do recall is
that it also had a switch to alter the way the neons flashed. I seem to
remember that one leg of all the neons were joined together and
connected to battery -ve. Likewise, one leg of all the caps were joined
together. When they were left 'floating', the flash of the individual
neons was very 'soft' and hypnotic and random. The switch took the
commoned capacitor legs to battery -ve. With the switch closed, the
flashes were much 'sharper' making the whole display much more
'frenetic' looking. The current drain was so small that a battery lasted
a year or more (which was just as well, as they were expensive. I think
I still have a bunch of neons somewhere. I might try knocking one up
again ... :-)

Arfa


When I was about 10, I had a Tandy Radio Shack kit of 5 neon bulbs in a
row, that had a plastic box.... oh, hang on - let google find an image ..

(later)

that, the Science Fair Goofy-Lite
http://my.core.com/~sparktron/130P1.JPG

The Radio Shack, Science Fair, P-Box kits
http://my.core.com/~sparktron/pbox.html

Interesting that it flickered differently in the dark, or with ones
finger acted up differently.

Ran from 6V. There was an option of making it sequential rather than random.

Schematic
http://my.core.com/~sparktron/130P6.JPG


I also built the Three Transistor Short Wave Regenerative Receiver kit
http://my.core.com/~sparktron/110P1.JPG

Happy Days. Had to be quick with the soldering iron or the box would melt

--
Adrian C


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Old December 24th 15, 09:56 PM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Default NE-51 Neon Bulbs

On Wednesday, December 23, 2015 at 7:57:27 AM UTC-5, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 03/12/15 02:27, Arfa Daily wrote:


"Fred McKenzie" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Madness wrote:

Just acquired a bunch of these lamps. They're in the same mini-bayonet
style as lamps like the #44/47. But would anyone know if these lamps can
be connected directly to 120 volts? Or do they need a resistor, @ if so,
what value?

Madness-

NE-51 does NOT have a resistor inside!

One thing you can do with them, is build a relaxation oscillator. From
a 90 to 100 volt DC source, connect a series resistor, with a capacitor
across the bulb. Perhaps 470K Ohms and 1 uF. Try different values to
change the flashing rate. For smaller values, it can be used as an
audio oscillator.

Another variation is to have several bulbs, each with its series
resistor. But the capacitors are connected from bulb to bulb in a ring.
The result is a somewhat random flashing. I once built one with 5
generic neon lamps using two small 45 Volt batteries in series. Some
people would become engrossed, trying to figure out the flashing
sequence!

Fred


Ha ! I built one too when I was an apprentice. I seem to think that the
circuit was in Practically Witless magazine. There used to be an aerosol
deodorant at the time which had a blue spherical cap. I had about 12
neons in my version, and had them poked through holes in one of those
caps - a bit like a WW2 sea mine. Quite by chance, the neon that flashed
slowest was the one that poked vertically out of the top. It was all run
from a single 90 volt battery, housed in a box made from modeling
plasticard under the deodorant cap. The one thing that I do recall is
that it also had a switch to alter the way the neons flashed. I seem to
remember that one leg of all the neons were joined together and
connected to battery -ve. Likewise, one leg of all the caps were joined
together. When they were left 'floating', the flash of the individual
neons was very 'soft' and hypnotic and random. The switch took the
commoned capacitor legs to battery -ve. With the switch closed, the
flashes were much 'sharper' making the whole display much more
'frenetic' looking. The current drain was so small that a battery lasted
a year or more (which was just as well, as they were expensive. I think
I still have a bunch of neons somewhere. I might try knocking one up
again ... :-)

Arfa


When I was about 10, I had a Tandy Radio Shack kit of 5 neon bulbs in a
row, that had a plastic box.... oh, hang on - let google find an image ..

(later)

that, the Science Fair Goofy-Lite
http://my.core.com/~sparktron/130P1.JPG

The Radio Shack, Science Fair, P-Box kits
http://my.core.com/~sparktron/pbox.html

Interesting that it flickered differently in the dark, or with ones
finger acted up differently.

Ran from 6V. There was an option of making it sequential rather than random.

Schematic
http://my.core.com/~sparktron/130P6.JPG


I also built the Three Transistor Short Wave Regenerative Receiver kit
http://my.core.com/~sparktron/110P1.JPG

Happy Days. Had to be quick with the soldering iron or the box would melt

--
Adrian C


Thanks for the trip down memory lane. 50 cents for the whole kit , that had to be the 1950s or 1960s. And the 1 tube AM radio with a 1T4 tube from your second link. That was way cool.
  #27   Report Post  
Old December 24th 15, 10:03 PM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Posts: 1,405
Default NE-51 Neon Bulbs



"Adrian Caspersz" wrote in message
...
On 03/12/15 02:27, Arfa Daily wrote:


"Fred McKenzie" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Madness wrote:

Just acquired a bunch of these lamps. They're in the same mini-bayonet
style as lamps like the #44/47. But would anyone know if these lamps
can
be connected directly to 120 volts? Or do they need a resistor, @ if
so,
what value?

Madness-

NE-51 does NOT have a resistor inside!

One thing you can do with them, is build a relaxation oscillator. From
a 90 to 100 volt DC source, connect a series resistor, with a capacitor
across the bulb. Perhaps 470K Ohms and 1 uF. Try different values to
change the flashing rate. For smaller values, it can be used as an
audio oscillator.

Another variation is to have several bulbs, each with its series
resistor. But the capacitors are connected from bulb to bulb in a ring.
The result is a somewhat random flashing. I once built one with 5
generic neon lamps using two small 45 Volt batteries in series. Some
people would become engrossed, trying to figure out the flashing
sequence!

Fred


Ha ! I built one too when I was an apprentice. I seem to think that the
circuit was in Practically Witless magazine. There used to be an aerosol
deodorant at the time which had a blue spherical cap. I had about 12
neons in my version, and had them poked through holes in one of those
caps - a bit like a WW2 sea mine. Quite by chance, the neon that flashed
slowest was the one that poked vertically out of the top. It was all run
from a single 90 volt battery, housed in a box made from modeling
plasticard under the deodorant cap. The one thing that I do recall is
that it also had a switch to alter the way the neons flashed. I seem to
remember that one leg of all the neons were joined together and
connected to battery -ve. Likewise, one leg of all the caps were joined
together. When they were left 'floating', the flash of the individual
neons was very 'soft' and hypnotic and random. The switch took the
commoned capacitor legs to battery -ve. With the switch closed, the
flashes were much 'sharper' making the whole display much more
'frenetic' looking. The current drain was so small that a battery lasted
a year or more (which was just as well, as they were expensive. I think
I still have a bunch of neons somewhere. I might try knocking one up
again ... :-)

Arfa


When I was about 10, I had a Tandy Radio Shack kit of 5 neon bulbs in a
row, that had a plastic box.... oh, hang on - let google find an image ..

(later)

that, the Science Fair Goofy-Lite
http://my.core.com/~sparktron/130P1.JPG

The Radio Shack, Science Fair, P-Box kits
http://my.core.com/~sparktron/pbox.html

Interesting that it flickered differently in the dark, or with ones finger
acted up differently.

Ran from 6V. There was an option of making it sequential rather than
random.

Schematic
http://my.core.com/~sparktron/130P6.JPG


I also built the Three Transistor Short Wave Regenerative Receiver kit
http://my.core.com/~sparktron/110P1.JPG


My first transistor SW regen was at boarding school - the cop shop relay
antenna was in a compound a few hundred yards from the school grounds, they
used SW back then too.............

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Old January 10th 16, 10:11 AM posted to sci.electronics.repair
MJC MJC is offline
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Posts: 139
Default NE-51 Neon Bulbs

In article ,
says...

MJC wrote:
In article ,
says...

* As an apprentice project, I built a clock that used four 5x7 blocks of
neons for a digital display.


See
https://picasaweb.google.com/1117418...CEDRICProject?
authuser=0&feat=directlink


Nice case. How old is that thing? What's inside?


Kind of you to take an interest! The whole project was carried out in
1964 (when I became 21). The neons were directly driven via a diode
array which encoded from up to ten numeral lines per digit. But I don't
remember whether we fitted all those diodes (I still have circuit
diagrams squirreled away!) into the display box or whether the cable has
5x7x4 wires, one per neon. There was a much bigger box which held the
rest of the circuitry and the large battery...

Mike.


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