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Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems. |
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#1
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Clogged laptop heat pipe and fan
HP Envy m6 laptop (with AMD A10 processor), which arrive with a bad case of overheating. Here's what the radiator grill looked like after I tore apart the laptop to clean out the filth: http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/rep...ogged_fan.html That's about 50% clogged. It took about 45 mins to overheat and shut down in self defense. The owner didn't really notice that there was an overheating problem, but did notice that the machine seemed to run slower when hot. I certainly noticed when I tried to do an image backup for 100 GBytes of kids games and found that it overheated and shut down in the middle of the backup (3 times). Note that the picture was AFTER I had hit the fan with my 60 psi air hose from every conceivable angle to try and clear out the crud. No luck. Here's what I had to do to the laptop to clean it out: http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/rep...A10%20CPU.html General lack of easy maintenance features is one reason I don't like HP products. The real problem is the mechanical design. The grill on the heat pipe is made for maximum cooling, not minimum filth accumulation. I did an experiment once with some dog hair clippings (don't ask) to see what really happens when a laptop sucks in short hair cuttings. The long hairs are blocked by the small holes in the grill work. The dust goes right through and out the exhaust port. However, tiny hair fragments between about 4 to 6 mm go through the holes, through fan, and get jammed up against the radiator grill. Initially, most of these short hairs went right through, but as the few that got stuck increased, more and more began to get caught until air flow was constricted to about 30% of maximum. It happened quite fast and was impressive to watch through a clear plastic fake cover. (I should do a YouTube video). After the test, I found that I could easily blow out most of the hair because there was no grease or goo to hold the fur ball in place. The laptop in the photo was possibly used near something that produced greasy fumes (kitchen or oil burning furnace). It took about 3 years to look like the photo. I forgot to take a photo of the fan. It was fairly clean except for greasy dirt stuck to the blades. I could hear the fan struggling, but it was against the back pressure, not friction from the filth. Again, the picture was AFTER I had blown out the laptop with 60 PSI compressed air from my blow gun in both directions. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#2
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Clogged laptop heat pipe and fan
"They all do that"
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#3
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Clogged laptop heat pipe and fan
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#4
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Clogged laptop heat pipe and fan
Jeff Liebermann wrote:
HP Envy m6 laptop (with AMD A10 processor), which arrive with a bad case of overheating. Here's what the radiator grill looked like after I tore apart the laptop to clean out the filth: http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/rep...ogged_fan.html That's about 50% clogged. It took about 45 mins to overheat and shut down in self defense. The owner didn't really notice that there was an overheating problem, but did notice that the machine seemed to run slower when hot. I certainly noticed when I tried to do an image backup for 100 GBytes of kids games and found that it overheated and shut down in the middle of the backup (3 times). Note that the picture was AFTER I had hit the fan with my 60 psi air hose from every conceivable angle to try and clear out the crud. No luck. Here's what I had to do to the laptop to clean it out: http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/rep...A10%20CPU.html General lack of easy maintenance features is one reason I don't like HP products. The real problem is the mechanical design. The grill on the heat pipe is made for maximum cooling, not minimum filth accumulation. I did an experiment once with some dog hair clippings (don't ask) to see what ha, nice test. I recall an old stale cigar being used to test airflow though audio amps at one shop. |
#5
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Clogged laptop heat pipe and fan
On 08/08/2015 03:40, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
HP Envy m6 laptop (with AMD A10 processor), which arrive with a bad case of overheating. Here's what the radiator grill looked like after I tore apart the laptop to clean out the filth: http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/rep...ogged_fan.html That's about 50% clogged. It took about 45 mins to overheat and shut down in self defense. The owner didn't really notice that there was an overheating problem, but did notice that the machine seemed to run slower when hot. I certainly noticed when I tried to do an image backup for 100 GBytes of kids games and found that it overheated and shut down in the middle of the backup (3 times). Note that the picture was AFTER I had hit the fan with my 60 psi air hose from every conceivable angle to try and clear out the crud. No luck. Here's what I had to do to the laptop to clean it out: http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/rep...A10%20CPU.html General lack of easy maintenance features is one reason I don't like HP products. The real problem is the mechanical design. The grill on the heat pipe is made for maximum cooling, not minimum filth accumulation. I did an experiment once with some dog hair clippings (don't ask) to see what really happens when a laptop sucks in short hair cuttings. The long hairs are blocked by the small holes in the grill work. The dust goes right through and out the exhaust port. However, tiny hair fragments between about 4 to 6 mm go through the holes, through fan, and get jammed up against the radiator grill. Initially, most of these short hairs went right through, but as the few that got stuck increased, more and more began to get caught until air flow was constricted to about 30% of maximum. It happened quite fast and was impressive to watch through a clear plastic fake cover. (I should do a YouTube video). After the test, I found that I could easily blow out most of the hair because there was no grease or goo to hold the fur ball in place. The laptop in the photo was possibly used near something that produced greasy fumes (kitchen or oil burning furnace). It took about 3 years to look like the photo. I forgot to take a photo of the fan. It was fairly clean except for greasy dirt stuck to the blades. I could hear the fan struggling, but it was against the back pressure, not friction from the filth. Again, the picture was AFTER I had blown out the laptop with 60 PSI compressed air from my blow gun in both directions. Related to that, notebooks and laptops, ie often used on laps. I'm surprised how few outlet grills have a bulge around them to stop loose clothing blocking the air outlet. Cut bit/s of blue hotmelt glue stick and glue the disc/crescent to the periphery simply sorts that one |
#6
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Clogged laptop heat pipe and fan
On Sat, 8 Aug 2015 06:29:03 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote: The real problem is the mechanical design. The grill on the heat pipe is made for maximum cooling, not minimum filth accumulation. I did an experiment once with some dog hair clippings (don't ask) to see what ha, nice test. I used to share my office with a cigarette smoker. Checking air flow was easy with him around. However, he died and I have to now search for someone who still smokes (cancer candidates). Incidentally, one of my favorite tricks to checking air flow is to remove the cover from (for example) a mini-tower case, and replace it with a layer of cellophane wrap. You can easily see the smoke moving around the case. For my paying customers, I vacuum formed a replacement cover out of clear acrylic, or viewed the insides with an endoscope. If I had a spare cover, I would install an acrylic window. I recall an old stale cigar being used to test airflow though audio amps at one shop. Yeah, that should work if you can stand the smell. One of my friends gave me a "plumbers rocket". They come in all shapes and sizes, but this one was a rather large one. Far too much smoke. So, I built a smoker (used to smoke cheese, meat, etc) from a small aquarium pump, a stainless can combustion chamber, and some copper plumbing. It doesn't produce much smoke, but that's what I want. Hint: Don't use a fog machine. The water or glycerine mist is too heavy and sinks much faster than wood or paper ash. They also produce far too much fog and the glycerine is hard to remove from the PCB without washing the board. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#7
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Clogged laptop heat pipe and fan
On Sat, 08 Aug 2015 08:13:28 +0100, N_Cook wrote:
Related to that, notebooks and laptops, ie often used on laps. I'm surprised how few outlet grills have a bulge around them to stop loose clothing blocking the air outlet. Cut bit/s of blue hotmelt glue stick and glue the disc/crescent to the periphery simply sorts that one Yeah, that can be a problem. I've done it to myself with the carpet matt that I have on my workbench. When I place the laptop on it, it sinks into the fibers and totally blocks the air flow. I now use a rubber door matt, that has a raised labyrinth design to prevent blocking. However, the real problem is the newer low profile laptops don't have any air space under the laptop when placed on a flat surface. The closer proximity to the table means that it sucks in all the dust, dirt, crap, food crumbs, whatever that is on the table. Kinda like a vacuum cleaner. Try it. Put some dust on the table and move the laptop around near it. Unless the dust is sticky, it will get sucked into the fan. The manufacturers solution is to replace or augment the slots in the bottom of the laptop with a grill full of small holes, such as in the photo: http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/repair/HP%20Envy%20m6%20clogged%20fan/slides/clogged_fan.html The added grill is obviously a quick fix that was not in the original design, which only had slots. The result is that the air intake area, is much smaller than the exhaust area, thus constricting the air flow. A centrifugal fan is a really bad choice for a system with a restricted intake (and a clogged exhaust). That might also explain why the fan didn't move much air, even at "high" speeds. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#9
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Clogged laptop heat pipe and fan
"They all do that" I bought a Dell 1705E for my first computer. In the library the 1705 drew ooohs and ahhhhs. I moved to a jungle off the beach at Canaveral Inlet. I was watching Yanks beat the Sox when several roaches walked up over an into the laptop via mic slots. aaaieeeeeeeeee ! Off course the r's were doing this unnoticed at night. Dell sez everything is coated with an invisible waterproof plastic coating On the air vent slits....consider the form is designed for air entry but not so easily water entry. By THE air slit engineer. |
#10
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Clogged laptop heat pipe and fan
On 8 Aug 2015, Jeff Liebermann wrote
So, I built a smoker (used to smoke cheese, meat, etc) from a small aquarium pump, a stainless can combustion chamber, and some copper plumbing. It doesn't produce much smoke, but that's what I want. Jeff, what do you use for fuel in your smoker? Dave |
#11
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Clogged laptop heat pipe and fan
On Sat, 08 Aug 2015 19:30:50 -0700, DaveC wrote:
what do you use for fuel in your smoker? Box cardboard, paper egg crates, wood chips, charcoal dust, pellet stove fuel, dried lawn clippings, or anything that will burn inefficiently and smoulder. Adding a sprinkle of water produced more smoke, but the flames went out too quickly. Read about what goes into a bee keepers smoker for clues: http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/smofuel.html -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#12
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Clogged laptop heat pipe and fan
AE6KS ..... how about live oak ?
or in your area...dead oak. |
#13
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Clogged laptop heat pipe and fan
On Sat, 08 Aug 2015 20:11:50 -0700 Jeff Liebermann
wrote in Message id: : On Sat, 08 Aug 2015 19:30:50 -0700, DaveC wrote: what do you use for fuel in your smoker? Box cardboard, paper egg crates, wood chips, charcoal dust, pellet stove fuel, dried lawn clippings, or anything that will burn inefficiently and smoulder. Adding a sprinkle of water produced more smoke, but the flames went out too quickly. Read about what goes into a bee keepers smoker for clues: http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/smofuel.html How about using incense? |
#14
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Clogged laptop heat pipe and fan
On Mon, 10 Aug 2015 08:00:02 -0400, JW wrote:
On Sat, 08 Aug 2015 20:11:50 -0700 Jeff Liebermann wrote in Message id: : On Sat, 08 Aug 2015 19:30:50 -0700, DaveC wrote: what do you use for fuel in your smoker? Box cardboard, paper egg crates, wood chips, charcoal dust, pellet stove fuel, dried lawn clippings, or anything that will burn inefficiently and smoulder. Adding a sprinkle of water produced more smoke, but the flames went out too quickly. Read about what goes into a bee keepers smoker for clues: http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/smofuel.html How about using incense? I haven't tried incense but I suspect it will not produce enough visible smoke. Also, since the machine under test is usually borrowed, methinks the owner might not appreciate having his machine internally coated with a layer of smelly oil. I had that problem when I used some of the pine kindling I save for starting my wood burning stove. The sap (creosote) was carried along with the smoke and made the case reek like a pine tree. Fortunately, most of it condensed near the air intake, so all I had to do was solvent wash the grill work and Dell's one big case fan. What you want is a finely divided ash, not a smelly or oily glue. Sigh. I guess they don't teach combustion, bomb making, and arson in the skools any more. We had "burn baby burn" while I was in college, but I guess later generations were too busy burning incense, getting stoned, and fighting smog to bother learning about rapid oxidation. Very sad and depressing commentary on the deteriorating quality of education methinks. Hints: Don't get the mix too hot, humidity has a big effect, figure out which way the wind is blowing first, and don't inhale the smoke. Too much oxidizer will cause the steel case to rust or the mix to act like flash powder. Try not to Learn by Destroying your computah. http://chemistry.about.com/od/chemistryhowtoguide/a/coloredsmoke.htm http://xtrem-experiments.com/pyro-compositions/colored-smoke.html -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#15
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Clogged laptop heat pipe and fan
H-P designed computers for office conditions. Blaming H-P form our slovenliness is un-called for ...
Walmart sells round white grippy pads with AAA adhesive once the grease goes off your laptop with methyl chloride raising vents just so for better cooling and no slip on slide surfaces... I lost the 1705E from G's out of the Turbo. |
#16
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Clogged laptop heat pipe and fan
On Mon, 10 Aug 2015 09:57:05 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
H-P designed computers for office conditions. I know. My office has a condition. Blaming H-P form our slovenliness is un-called for ... The first step to solving a problem is to blame someone. If I can't blame HP, would you consider being the designated culprit? Walmart sells round white grippy pads with AAA adhesive once the grease goes off your laptop with methyl chloride raising vents just so for better cooling and no slip on slide surfaces... I use a door matt with lumps and bumps to improve the air flow under the laptop. Everything I've tried to stick to the bottom of my laptop usually falls off when the car gets too hot and the glue softens. The grease remover is usually just alcohol, not methylene chloride or dichloromethane (furniture stripper). I lost the 1705E from G's out of the Turbo. That would be a Dell Inspiron e1705. http://www.dell.com/content/topics/topic.aspx/global/products/inspn/topics/en/inspn_e1705_sp_overview?c=us Slow CPU 2GHz. Limited to only 2GB of RAM. No HDMI port. Only XP drivers available. Nice 1600x1200 optional display but with limited viewing angle. Did you actually pay money for this thing? The literature says it's for a "road warrior". Are you a road warrior or do you prefer to ride in the dirt and mud? -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#17
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Clogged laptop heat pipe and fan
"Also, since the machine under test is usually borrowed, methinks the
owner might not appreciate having his machine internally coated with a layer of smelly oil." He might also think you're smoking pot. lol This all makes me appreciate my crapola Gateway. It's a P series and I bought them in large part because of the bogger screen. I can almost see it YIPPEE ! It has alot going for it really, it has two HD bays which I never seen in a laptop before or since, the RAM is easy to get to, the batteries seem pretty good considering now they are over five years old. But the OS is Vista Hoe Premium and I cosinder that it runs like **** even though it is pretty clean. I mean I don't load alot on it lke some people. The AV is AVG. And the sound sucks. I don't mean the speakers, I mean even the audio output is highly upcompressed, like radio. In fact so compressed - AM radio. Has decent frequency response but I have to turn the input level amost all the way down on VLC to get rid of (most of) the compression. Actually I like it for movies that way, but music ? I might have to get an external DAC. (don't start that audiophool **** now) I dunno what to do, I don't want 7, 8 or 10 and I'll never find drivers fro XP, the running of which has its own set of problems. Not quite ready to jump to Linux but im not completely in the dark on it. Anyway, all this kinda makes me wonder how they manage the heat in those tablets. The Microsoft one is supposed to be a veritable PC. With the USB you could concievably plug in a mouse and (real) keyboard and do just about anything. Even print. One thing I haven't seen them tout is a video output. I am pretty sure it would have to be HDMI because of the thickness. (or would that be thinness ? Like what is the speed of dark ?) Would an external touchscreen monitor work on one ? Ifit had HDMI and USB, probably I would think. |
#18
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Clogged laptop heat pipe and fan
"Vista Hoe Premium "
I'm keeping that one ! |
#19
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Clogged laptop heat pipe and fan
AE6KS .... https://goo.gl/bjLK8y
wonderful...If I can have you fix it ? today the charger overheated a battery. The charger system is dying. You know the story abt the lightning strike when my social research attempted finding a ide photo of Debbie Boone is Images ? I typed. YOUR SLOVENLINESS but Goonazi's changed YOUR to OUR A Dell 1620 ? replaced Big Silver...a 1620 screen is max better in daylight that a 2006 1705E. https://picasaweb.google.com/1022344...36024948125394 the laptops sit on a plywood desk running from below radioatop doghouse to metal cargo divider. AAA GPS in S&T and Garmin Nroute. I herd yawl has a chance to run the San Andreas route into SF. Outstanding N-S trip. Remarkable for the zero traffic on weekdays on shoulder seasons. EG only vehicle on the Roosevelt Slalom down to the Transverse Intersection. https://goo.gl/MTz5ak SUPER ! There are several dumpstered pdf life jackets in stock with ethafoam closed cell...small slices of ethafoam glued to edges of electronics damps shock even for a Otter Boxed Samsung5. Not marketable as foam chunks 'spoil the lines' |
#20
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Clogged laptop heat pipe and fan
sliders here called GRIPPES , replaceable off course, are Waxman 4738511W 1" 16 count
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#21
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Clogged laptop heat pipe and fan
On Monday, August 10, 2015 at 7:06:21 PM UTC-4, wrote:
sliders here called GRIPPES , replaceable off course, are Waxman 4738511W 1" 16 count nude and GRIPPERS dammit |
#22
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Clogged laptop heat pipe and fan
On Fri, 7 Aug 2015 21:08:38 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
"They all do that" The cooling system is not always designed as badly as the HP. Here's a Dell Inspiron 1525 cooling system: http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/repair/Dell%20Inspiron%201525/ Note that the weird shaped bottom hatch give me access to the fan after I remove the heat pipe. I would have liked to also have access to the fan intake, but it was easy enough to clean with a brush and pipe cleaner. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#23
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Clogged laptop heat pipe and fan
AE6KS
those grippers are cuttable nicely anchoring an Amazon Otter Samsung5 ....... the 1705E's fan left fan went out. An English site gave the screw by screw takeapart. I was surprised finding no access plate....intro laptop. I was involved in a new mixing room project at a major yum yum pie factory. One day several gnomish bakers came in milling around the entry double doors where dough carts would come and go...soon a burly suited man dragged a tall thin man in bounced him off the floor several times shouting waving his arms pointing at the door, grabbing the thin man's lapels ect then throwing him out you got it....the new door was in a major wrong place in a new finished wall. |
#24
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Clogged laptop heat pipe and fan
On Tuesday, August 11, 2015 at 7:29:06 AM UTC-4, wrote:
One day several gnomish bakers came in milling around the entry double doors where dough carts would come and go...soon a burly suited man dragged a tall thin man in bounced him off the floor several times shouting waving his arms pointing at the door, grabbing the thin man's lapels ect then throwing him out you got it....the new door was in a major wrong place in a new finished wall. One day in a cardboard box factory the boss grabbed me and told me to make a drawing of the die room where the new rotating storage rack system was to go. (kind of like that conveyor your dry cleaning goes on only industrial sized) He was VERY clear. He did NOT want it to scale. He wanted it in an hour so he could generate a contract. Do NOT waste time drawing it to scale. Probably told me 3 times. But if you know the dimensions, it's just as fast to draw it to scale, so I did. Turned out the rack system couldn't fit in the room! We had to redesign, but catching that mistake saved the company a lot of time and money. (not that I saw any of it) |
#25
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Clogged laptop heat pipe and fan
NOT building a Dell with fan access doors suggests Dell cooling fans or fans generally run on but my fan did not....I dunno the stats on cooling but we are here...
the larger room fans run on.... |
#26
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Clogged laptop heat pipe and fan
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#27
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Clogged laptop heat pipe and fan
On Sun, 9 Aug 2015 06:29:06 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
AE6KS ..... how about live oak ? or in your area...dead oak. Yep. We're slowly loosing our local white, red, and tan oaks to phytophthora ramorum (sudden oak death). http://www.suddenoakdeath.org http://www.dontmovefirewood.org/gallery-of-pests/sudden-oak-death-syndrome.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phytophthora_ramorum Rumor has it that it's caused by puns and bad joaks. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
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