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Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems. |
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#1
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Can a TV camera be blinded by IR?
A friend of mine has a neighbor who has stuck a small video camera in his bedroom window to spy on the friend's yard. The problem is in clear view of the camera is the friend's 14 year old daughter's bedroom window. The neighbor claims that the friend is running an illegal business out of his home and the camera is there to try to catch him at it. My friend hasn't tried to get the state police involved yet but the local town cops won't do anything about it.
Anyway I had an idea. I keep a small B&W TV camera in the shop connected to a monitor which I use to check IR remote transmitters. When I hold a suspect remote a few feet from the camera and operate it the camera is essentially "blinded" by the otherwise invisible infrared pulse train. Can something like this be done cost effectively but naturally on a much larger scale to blind Bozo's camera? My friend got ****ed off one night and sat there with a laser pointer directed at this camera for a couple of hours. Although it didn't resolve the problem, it did bring the cops down to advise my friend that he couldn't do that without violating the neighbors privacy! Makes you question the definition of "freedom". The distance looks to be about 200 feet. Thanks, Lenny. |
#3
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Can a TV camera be blinded by IR?
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#4
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Can a TV camera be blinded by IR?
On Thursday, April 16, 2015 at 11:21:58 PM UTC-4, wrote:
\ My friend got ****ed off one night and sat there with a laser pointer directed at this camera for a couple of hours. Although it didn't resolve the problem, it did bring the cops down to advise my friend that he couldn't do that without violating the neighbors privacy! Makes you question the definition of "freedom". \ Nah. Makes me question the definition of adult. If you pull the shade on the window, there is no problem. If you damage his camera, he will have a legitimate case and you will end up paying for it. What is he going to see with a camera that he can't see by looking out the window? Are you going to paint over his windows, too? No point in moving. You (er, I mean your friend) are likely to find a neighbor you can't get along with everywhere. Get a prescription for Xanax and chill. |
#5
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Can a TV camera be blinded by IR?
Why IR ? Why not just regular floodlights ? If the neighbor complainns tell the cops he is so paranoid to have cameras, you too want to help stop crime. So you are HELPING the neighvbor in hia quest to be secure.
Tha tneighbor is s ****ing ninny. You know how hard it is to get nayone busted for anytihng unless they are a taerget ? Of course this varies by area. WWe have a suburb around here where the neighbors call the law if you have a jetski in your driveway. Ironically the name of that city is "Independence". Anyway, with "proper" lighting you can obscure it pretty good because caeras only have so much contrast ratio. then the iris has to close up. Infrared might or might not work. Since it is an outdoor camera it is probably IR sensitive for lowlight operation. Howevr there is plenty of justification for floodlights, putting up IR beacons when you personally have a camera to pick it up might be construed as interfering with the asshole's ability/attempts to be secure. Surely the asshole duidn't tell the cops the intent of his camera was to spy on your friend, the cops would have not sided with him if he said that. the BIG proble is if this asshole has connections downtown. THAT is a big problem because this entire government runs on the budddy system. In some localities it is alot worse. If noting else, mount a floodlight right by the daughter's bedroom wind pointin pretty much at the camera but not exactly. It doesn't have to be exact.. As long as a high intensity light source is visible to that camera, its iris will have to close up. |
#6
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Can a TV camera be blinded by IR?
when you personally DO NOT have a camera...
Of course... |
#7
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Can a TV camera be blinded by IR?
In article ,
Pat wrote: Back to the original question, most of the newer cameras have an IR filter to keep daytime IR light from fuzzing up the picture. If the camera has nighttime IR illumination, then that filter is turned off at night so your IR scheme would work at night. If that's the case, then I suspect that a bunch of high-output narrow- dispersion IR LEDs, aimed in the direction of the camera, and driven with periodic high-current pulses, might be the way to go. Think "IR flash". You can get significantly higher peak intensity from LEDs by pulsing them - their peak-current capacity is higher than their continuous-current capacity. Camera sensors tend to have some "memory", and so if "blinded" by a bright flash they'll take a fraction of a second (or more) to recover, just as human eyes do. Strobing a bank of IR LEDs several times a second might "give 'em fits". If you really want to get cute, build a sizable panel of IR LEDs in a rectangular layout with individual drivers (e.g. one transistor per LED, or row-and-column drivers), hook it up to a PC or single-board computer through a suitable interface, and write some software which "strobes" a message across it. "STOP SPYING ON US!" It'd be invisible to the eye, but visible to the camera. |
#8
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Can a TV camera be blinded by IR?
On Fri, 17 Apr 2015, Dave Platt wrote:
In article , Pat wrote: Back to the original question, most of the newer cameras have an IR filter to keep daytime IR light from fuzzing up the picture. If the camera has nighttime IR illumination, then that filter is turned off at night so your IR scheme would work at night. If that's the case, then I suspect that a bunch of high-output narrow- dispersion IR LEDs, aimed in the direction of the camera, and driven with periodic high-current pulses, might be the way to go. Think "IR flash". You can get significantly higher peak intensity from LEDs by pulsing them - their peak-current capacity is higher than their continuous-current capacity. Camera sensors tend to have some "memory", and so if "blinded" by a bright flash they'll take a fraction of a second (or more) to recover, just as human eyes do. Strobing a bank of IR LEDs several times a second might "give 'em fits". If you really want to get cute, build a sizable panel of IR LEDs in a rectangular layout with individual drivers (e.g. one transistor per LED, or row-and-column drivers), hook it up to a PC or single-board computer through a suitable interface, and write some software which "strobes" a message across it. "STOP SPYING ON US!" It'd be invisible to the eye, but visible to the camera. Maybe it's just a paranoid interpretation of it all. I had to read the original post a few times to follow who was doing what. In the end, are we sure the guy with the camera is spying on the backyard, or is he outright spying on the bathroom? Michael |
#9
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Can a TV camera be blinded by IR?
"Michael Black" wrote in message news:alpine.LNX.2.02.1504171552140.20316@darkstar. example.org... On Fri, 17 Apr 2015, Dave Platt wrote: In article , Pat wrote: Back to the original question, most of the newer cameras have an IR filter to keep daytime IR light from fuzzing up the picture. If the camera has nighttime IR illumination, then that filter is turned off at night so your IR scheme would work at night. If that's the case, then I suspect that a bunch of high-output narrow- dispersion IR LEDs, aimed in the direction of the camera, and driven with periodic high-current pulses, might be the way to go. Think "IR flash". You can get significantly higher peak intensity from LEDs by pulsing them - their peak-current capacity is higher than their continuous-current capacity. Camera sensors tend to have some "memory", and so if "blinded" by a bright flash they'll take a fraction of a second (or more) to recover, just as human eyes do. Strobing a bank of IR LEDs several times a second might "give 'em fits". If you really want to get cute, build a sizable panel of IR LEDs in a rectangular layout with individual drivers (e.g. one transistor per LED, or row-and-column drivers), hook it up to a PC or single-board computer through a suitable interface, and write some software which "strobes" a message across it. "STOP SPYING ON US!" It'd be invisible to the eye, but visible to the camera. Maybe it's just a paranoid interpretation of it all. I had to read the original post a few times to follow who was doing what. In the end, are we sure the guy with the camera is spying on the backyard, or is he outright spying on the bathroom? Michael I think to reach any conclusion at all on this matter, you would need to hear from the other party to find out why they are doing what they are doing. IMHO it is very dangerous to come to any conclusion at all based upon one aggrieved parties's testament. Why would you do that? Gareth. |
#10
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Can a TV camera be blinded by IR?
On Fri, 17 Apr 2015 22:03:59 +0100, "Gareth Magennis"
wrote: "Michael Black" wrote in message news:alpine.LNX.2.02.1504171552140.20316@darkstar .example.org... On Fri, 17 Apr 2015, Dave Platt wrote: In article , Pat wrote: Back to the original question, most of the newer cameras have an IR filter to keep daytime IR light from fuzzing up the picture. If the camera has nighttime IR illumination, then that filter is turned off at night so your IR scheme would work at night. If that's the case, then I suspect that a bunch of high-output narrow- dispersion IR LEDs, aimed in the direction of the camera, and driven with periodic high-current pulses, might be the way to go. Think "IR flash". You can get significantly higher peak intensity from LEDs by pulsing them - their peak-current capacity is higher than their continuous-current capacity. Camera sensors tend to have some "memory", and so if "blinded" by a bright flash they'll take a fraction of a second (or more) to recover, just as human eyes do. Strobing a bank of IR LEDs several times a second might "give 'em fits". If you really want to get cute, build a sizable panel of IR LEDs in a rectangular layout with individual drivers (e.g. one transistor per LED, or row-and-column drivers), hook it up to a PC or single-board computer through a suitable interface, and write some software which "strobes" a message across it. "STOP SPYING ON US!" It'd be invisible to the eye, but visible to the camera. Maybe it's just a paranoid interpretation of it all. I had to read the original post a few times to follow who was doing what. In the end, are we sure the guy with the camera is spying on the backyard, or is he outright spying on the bathroom? Michael I think to reach any conclusion at all on this matter, you would need to hear from the other party to find out why they are doing what they are doing. IMHO it is very dangerous to come to any conclusion at all based upon one aggrieved parties's testament. Why would you do that? Because it's all we have and we need something to talk about on a Friday evening. Gareth. |
#11
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Can a TV camera be blinded by IR?
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#12
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Can a TV camera be blinded by IR?
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#13
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Can a TV camera be blinded by IR?
" think to reach any conclusion at all on this matter, you would need to
hear from the other party to find out why they are doing what they are doing. " Read through. They are trying to catch him in an illegal business. At least that's what they are satying, and this is not from the person doing it. Therefore the only logical conclusion is the Lenny's friend IS running an "illegal" business. But the fact is there is no such thing as an illegal business. What is he selling nickel bags ? Know what you do with neighbors like this ? When it is ten below zero outside, get out your garden hose and do them the favor of washing down their driveway. Al the way to their doors. Every one of them . The water has no serial number. If they got the cops to come over Lenny's friend doing the LASER thing, they got connects. That makes it dirty territory. All rules are null and void. I would get very fmailiar with all city codes n ****, and formulate my revenge from there. It is were winter and really vcold, the garden hose is EXCELLENT, but it is getting warm. Perhaps some sort of solar reflector ? Hey Lenny, BAKE THE MOTHER****ERS ! HAHAHAHAHA. They done ****ed with the wrong people. |
#14
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Can a TV camera be blinded by IR?
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#15
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Can a TV camera be blinded by IR?
wrote in message ... " think to reach any conclusion at all on this matter, you would need to hear from the other party to find out why they are doing what they are doing. " Read through. They are trying to catch him in an illegal business. At least that's what they are satying, and this is not from the person doing it. Therefore the only logical conclusion is the Lenny's friend IS running an "illegal" business. But the fact is there is no such thing as an illegal business. What is he selling nickel bags ? Yeahbut, if you heard the story from the other guy, it would probably be the polar opposite of the one we have heard here. And the real truth would be somewhere between the two. That's how things normally work. IME. Gareth. |
#16
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Can a TV camera be blinded by IR?
"And the real truth would be somewhere between the two."
The camera is the evdence of the guy being an asshole. but other than that you're right. However Lenny is not asking for help in spying on somene, he is asking for help to prevent someone from spying. We don't want to get to the point where there are ore cameras than people. I owuld just go to somewhere other than my propperty and shoot the ****ing cmaera, but these days I dunno if I could hit it with my eyesight. when you know how to shoot you know how to shoot. I am fine in regular daylight, but not too bright. But to do this in the middle of the night, I would probably miss. Well I guess I could use a rifle. |
#17
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Can a TV camera be blinded by IR?
wrote in message ... "And the real truth would be somewhere between the two." The camera is the evdence of the guy being an asshole. but other than that you're right. However Lenny is not asking for help in spying on somene, he is asking for help to prevent someone from spying. I disagree. The camera might be the only way the other guy is going to be able to prove that X,Y,Z is happening, when it should not be, and is making his life a living hell. This happens. In the UK, when anti-social behaviour happens between neighbours, the victims are encouraged to gather as much evidence as they can to produce to the appropriate authorities, who can then act accordingly. This includes and often requires recording such incidents with cameras. This does not necessarily mean "spying" to me. That is one giant conclusion jump there based upon a totally skewed and almost non existent set of data. Gareth. |
#18
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Can a TV camera be blinded by IR?
On Thursday, April 16, 2015 at 11:21:58 PM UTC-4, wrote:
A friend of mine has a neighbor who has stuck a small video camera in his bedroom window to spy on the friend's yard. The problem is in clear view of the camera is the friend's 14 year old daughter's bedroom window. The neighbor claims that the friend is running an illegal business out of his home and the camera is there to try to catch him at it. My friend hasn't tried to get the state police involved yet but the local town cops won't do anything about it. Anyway I had an idea. I keep a small B&W TV camera in the shop connected to a monitor which I use to check IR remote transmitters. When I hold a suspect remote a few feet from the camera and operate it the camera is essentially "blinded" by the otherwise invisible infrared pulse train. Can something like this be done cost effectively but naturally on a much larger scale to blind Bozo's camera? My friend got ****ed off one night and sat there with a laser pointer directed at this camera for a couple of hours. Although it didn't resolve the problem, it did bring the cops down to advise my friend that he couldn't do that without violating the neighbors privacy! Makes you question the definition of "freedom". The distance looks to be about 200 feet. Thanks, Lenny. Use the bright IR LED lighting BUT do it from inside the house. What you do inside is expected to be private. That includes being able to parade around inside your own house in the nude with the shades up. Your neighbors cannot complain about it as it would violate your reasonable expectation of privacy within your own home. When you go outside it becomes a different issue. With that said, a large bright LED array inside the window should not cause you an actionable problem by the law. The onus should then fall on the neighbor with the camera to prove you are intentionally interfering with his activity. Simply state in technical terms it is an 'experiment' being conducted to see what kind of wildlife/extraterrestrial beings it attracts (or something like that). |
#19
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Can a TV camera be blinded by IR?
Thing is, XYZ is none of his business and I would blow the mother****ers head off.
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#20
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Can a TV camera be blinded by IR?
On Sat, 18 Apr 2015 17:34:38 -0700 (PDT), mickgeyver
wrote: What you do inside is expected to be private. That includes being=20 able to parade around inside your own house in the nude with the shades up. Your neighbors cannot complain about it as it would violate your reasonable expectation of privacy within your own home. When you go outside it becomes a different issue. I'm afraid you've misused that phrase. "Reasonable expectation of privacy" is a standard used to decide if the goverment has violated the rights (under the Fourth Amendment to the Constition or a similar clause in a law or state constitution) of someone asserting the right to privacy. The opposite of how you are using the term. It has nothing to do with whether one is permitted to display himself naked so that others can see. I don't know the details of that issue, but try having sex in front of a picture window with no shades that is near to and faces the street with pedestrians walking by and you'll find out that you don't have the unlimited right you think you do. As to whether you have a 4th Amendment or other right then, when you don't have curtains or leave the curtains open, you waive your right of privacy. |
#21
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Can a TV camera be blinded by IR?
On Sat, 18 Apr 2015 17:34:38 -0700, mickgeyver
wrote: ...snip.... What you do inside is expected to be private. That includes being able to parade around inside your own house in the nude with the shades up. Your neighbors cannot complain about it as it would violate your reasonable expectation of privacy within your own home. When you go outside it becomes a different issue. ...snip.... BAD ADVICE! NOT TRUE! Review court case of man arrested for vacuuming 'inside' his home while in the nude with shades open. |
#22
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Can a TV camera be blinded by IR?
On Sunday, April 19, 2015 at 5:01:44 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 18 Apr 2015 17:34:38 -0700 (PDT), mickgeyver wrote: What you do inside is expected to be private. That includes being=20 able to parade around inside your own house in the nude with the shades up. Your neighbors cannot complain about it as it would violate your reasonable expectation of privacy within your own home. When you go outside it becomes a different issue. I'm afraid you've misused that phrase. "Reasonable expectation of privacy" is a standard used to decide if the goverment has violated the rights (under the Fourth Amendment to the Constition or a similar clause in a law or state constitution) of someone asserting the right to privacy. The opposite of how you are using the term. It has nothing to do with whether one is permitted to display himself naked so that others can see. I don't know the details of that issue, but try having sex in front of a picture window with no shades that is near to and faces the street with pedestrians walking by and you'll find out that you don't have the unlimited right you think you do. As to whether you have a 4th Amendment or other right then, when you don't have curtains or leave the curtains open, you waive your right of privacy. See http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/loc...er-6145021.php Perhaps it depends more on local interpretation. Please provide your source. |
#23
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Can a TV camera be blinded by IR?
wrote in message ... Thing is, XYZ is none of his business and I would blow the mother****ers head off. Thing is, if XYZ is affecting his quality of life then it IS his business, and, at least in the UK, he is entitled to take the (legal) steps necessary to record and try and stop this possibly illegal XYZ behaviour. Gareth. |
#24
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Can a TV camera be blinded by IR?
On Thursday, April 16, 2015 at 11:21:58 PM UTC-4, wrote:
A friend of mine has a neighbor who has stuck a small video camera in his bedroom window to spy on the friend's yard. The problem is in clear view of the camera is the friend's 14 year old daughter's bedroom window. The neighbor claims that the friend is running an illegal business out of his home and the camera is there to try to catch him at it. My friend hasn't tried to get the state police involved yet but the local town cops won't do anything about it. Anyway I had an idea. I keep a small B&W TV camera in the shop connected to a monitor which I use to check IR remote transmitters. When I hold a suspect remote a few feet from the camera and operate it the camera is essentially "blinded" by the otherwise invisible infrared pulse train. Can something like this be done cost effectively but naturally on a much larger scale to blind Bozo's camera? My friend got ****ed off one night and sat there with a laser pointer directed at this camera for a couple of hours. Although it didn't resolve the problem, it did bring the cops down to advise my friend that he couldn't do that without violating the neighbors privacy! Makes you question the definition of "freedom". The distance looks to be about 200 feet. Thanks, Lenny. The guy has a small one car garage in which he is licensed by the town to do state inspections on vehicles. This is not a big operation in any sense of the word. For some unknown reason, (possibly some unfounded concerns about noise, or perhaps because he is unfortunate to have a prick for a neighbor who can't seem to mind his own ****ing business) he is not permitted to do any repairs on any vehicles, just inspections. Russ has actually fired up his compressor and walked towards his neighbors house and noticed that long before he reaches the property line the effect of road noise and distance squared makes the compressor just about inaudible. If one considers how utterly ridiculous this really is in another sense though, how can the guy even run his business at all? Technically if a car fails inspection for a tail light being out is he supposed to send him on his way without being able to fix it himself? The camera supposedly is supposed to catch him doing the repairs which will invariably be connected with many of those failed inspections. It would seem to me that the town is condoning this asshole trying to put my friend out of business. In a sense I like the TV station route. And we have a local ABC affiliate 20 miles from here. However on the other hand no one wants to be put under a microscope either and I suspect that would be inevitable. Whether he's trying to get a peek at the daughter is questionable however she shouldn't have to be concerned about that. Even if his only target is the yard I feel that it still could be looked at as spying. At the least a peeping Tom. When we bought our house I had two pre requisites. Very simply, adequate elevation for TV and two way radio, and no neighbors. That was 36 years ago and so glad that I can still walk out of my back door (bare ass if I want to) and just barely see my neighbors house through the woods. Lenny |
#25
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Can a TV camera be blinded by IR?
On Tuesday, April 21, 2015 at 7:43:21 AM UTC-4, wrote:
The guy has a small one car garage in which he is licensed by the town to do state inspections on vehicles. This is not a big operation in any sense of the word. For some unknown reason, (possibly some unfounded concerns about noise, or perhaps because he is unfortunate to have a prick for a neighbor who can't seem to mind his own ****ing business) he is not permitted to do any repairs on any vehicles, just inspections. So. He's running a commercial business in an area zoned residential, and the powers that be are nice enough to look the other way and let him do inspections as long as he doesn't turn it into a repair operation. But he doesn't want his neighbor seeing what he's really doing? Really? Seems like if he IS following the agreement, the neighbor's camera would back him up. I think he's trying to get away with pushing the envelope here. There's two sides to every story, and the neighbor MIGHT be a prick, but this guy doesn't sound completely innocent either. |
#26
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Can a TV camera be blinded by IR?
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#27
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Can a TV camera be blinded by IR?
There are some technicalities here. This guy is in a tricky spot. If he wants to do repairs there are certain things he has to do because there is no Constitution. First of all he made a mistake going into any business with the government on any level but that is beside the point, just worth noting.
If he does an inspection, due to all the regulations connected with that, it is most likely that he would have to do any repairs either outside of the area used for the inspections or during hours the area is not used for inspections. Under thoise conditions he is not operating in commerce (even if he charges) and they probably won't do anything, mainly because under those condituions he woud have a valid defense. They don't like to lose so if they got a good chance of losing they do nothing. However, the city could have been a prick when issuing the permit stating that no part of the parcel of property can be used for auto repairs. If he signed anything like that he is contractually obligated. At that point he has to weigh just what the certification for inspections is worth. I have known backyard mechanics who made two grand a week under the table. I would imagine that the ban in repairs by an inspection facility is ostensibly to prevent abuse by the inspectors. they could bull**** the customer and say this is wrong and that is wrong and rake them over the coals with the repair bill, them believing the repairs were mandatory. Here's a good kicker - if he takes deductions on his taxes for upkeep and property taxes for the inspection station, that is only a portion of his total property. As such ONLY the area used for that particular activity is undert those regulations. If he wants to do repairs he should build a second garage fro that. then they got noting to say. There have been laws in places stating that you are not allowed to work on cars on residential property but none of them hold water. Ironically Detroit, Michican had such an ordinance but it is as dead as the death penalty for auto theft. (Chicago a long time ago) At this point I am curious as to the geographical location of this. Some states are different than others. And in so many ways. To get really specific you have to get into exactly what that permit saysthe zoning, even the state constitution, Law is a pain in the ass. I've dealt with altogether to much of it in my life and at this point I am done. Seriously, I will not sign anything. In fact I work for cash. I am done dealing with those ****s, because let's face it, this prick neighbor is enabled by "law" to harrass sonmeone tryong to make a goddam living. And that's what they do, and he is one of theoir little spies who doesn't realize they are the type destroying this country, thinking everything needs to be approved n ****. **** all that, and one day, when I snap, gime this guy's address. If I pull a Thelma and Louise I'll stop by and have a shoirt talk with the guy. Just like the asshole in Independence, Ohioo whgo called on a neighbor for having a jetski in the driveway. the cops should have laughged their asses off, but nope. And it is all a money game. Watch and see if the **** hits the fan for your buddy. I BET YOU MY LEFT NUT that he could be allowed to do repairs if he paid more fees. |
#28
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Can a TV camera be blinded by IR?
On Tue, 21 Apr 2015 09:33:38 -0400, micky
wrote: He got old and wanted to semi-retire but wanted to work a few hours a week doing convertible tops from his garage. So he does. From the two-car garage that is in back of the house where he lives. |
#29
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Can a TV camera be blinded by IR?
On Thursday, April 16, 2015 at 11:21:58 PM UTC-4, wrote:
A friend of mine has a neighbor who has stuck a small video camera in his bedroom window to spy on the friend's yard. The problem is in clear view of the camera is the friend's 14 year old daughter's bedroom window. The neighbor claims that the friend is running an illegal business out of his home and the camera is there to try to catch him at it. My friend hasn't tried to get the state police involved yet but the local town cops won't do anything about it. Anyway I had an idea. I keep a small B&W TV camera in the shop connected to a monitor which I use to check IR remote transmitters. When I hold a suspect remote a few feet from the camera and operate it the camera is essentially "blinded" by the otherwise invisible infrared pulse train. Can something like this be done cost effectively but naturally on a much larger scale to blind Bozo's camera? My friend got ****ed off one night and sat there with a laser pointer directed at this camera for a couple of hours. Although it didn't resolve the problem, it did bring the cops down to advise my friend that he couldn't do that without violating the neighbors privacy! Makes you question the definition of "freedom". The distance looks to be about 200 feet. Thanks, Lenny. I said that I "could" walk out bare ass. I didn't say that I do. And yes after 69 years I think I can recognize a trouble maker and an asshole. But YOU have a better Idea. Bake a pie? Buy him a cake? Why don't you come over and kiss his ass too while you're at it. Are you ****ing nuts? Lenny |
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