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Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems. |
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#1
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A sign of the times ...
In my workshop, I have four four-drawer filing cabinets absolutely
jam-packed with service manuals that I have collected over more than 40 years in the business. The thing is, that I almost never go to them any more. My first stop is almost always the archive of downloaded manuals on the computer, and if the one I want is not there, then online to one of the excellent archives to be found there, to download it. And if I can't find one, then the item is probably not worth the fixing time anyway. So, even though it's been a bit heart-wrenching, I've started ditching all the old paper manuals, with a view to getting rid of three of those cabinets, and winning back the space. As well as doing this, I have also been sorting out the many many cabinets of small spares, and been seriously rationalising what is kept. It's really hard, and I keep thinking "I'm gonna need that next week" as something else goes in the bin. But at the same time, it is also sort of 'invigorating' to be restoring some order and tidiness to the workshop. Has anyone else been through this process and felt better for it at the end, or am I just going to regret doing it for years to come ... ? Arfa |
#2
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A sign of the times ...
On 12/03/2014, 5:42 PM, Arfa Daily wrote:
In my workshop, I have four four-drawer filing cabinets absolutely jam-packed with service manuals that I have collected over more than 40 years in the business. The thing is, that I almost never go to them any more. My first stop is almost always the archive of downloaded manuals on the computer, and if the one I want is not there, then online to one of the excellent archives to be found there, to download it. And if I can't find one, then the item is probably not worth the fixing time anyway. So, even though it's been a bit heart-wrenching, I've started ditching all the old paper manuals, with a view to getting rid of three of those cabinets, and winning back the space. As well as doing this, I have also been sorting out the many many cabinets of small spares, and been seriously rationalising what is kept. It's really hard, and I keep thinking "I'm gonna need that next week" as something else goes in the bin. But at the same time, it is also sort of 'invigorating' to be restoring some order and tidiness to the workshop. Has anyone else been through this process and felt better for it at the end, or am I just going to regret doing it for years to come ... ? Arfa Well, I have about ten filing cabinets in my shop and while a reasonable percentage is online, most of it is not. So I slowly scan them as we have time and add to our internal library. I have no intention of dumping the paper, it is my archive. John :-#)# -- (Please post followups or tech inquiries to the newsgroup) John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." |
#3
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A sign of the times ...
On Thu, 4 Dec 2014 01:42:14 -0000, "Arfa Daily"
wrote: Has anyone else been through this process and felt better for it at the end, or am I just going to regret doing it for years to come ... ? Yep. I have a similar problem. Most of the "recent" manuals, which means in the 30 years, I've recycled or sold. They're all available in PDF form somewhere. The really old stuff, dating back to the 1960's through 1980's, I'll keep for now, as they're often difficult to find. I've been scanning these as needed, and posting them to various public archives. However, since there's no money in doing this, it's a very low priority for me. Fortunately, I have an easy way to do the scans. One of my customers has a Canon ImageRunner 5000 copier, that will do double sided scan and OCR reads to PDF very quickly. Video of the machine in operation: http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/CanonImageRunner5000.wmv A much bigger problem is how to organize manuals and driver CD's. The recent stuff can usually be found online, but the old stuff is long gone and difficult to find. I have several large boxes full of disorganized CD's, that require a linear search through the mess every time I need something. I think of it as a miniature version of the service manual problem. About a year ago, I purged my office of floppy disks, keeping only those that I suspected I might need. Since then, I've spent an inordinate amount of time finding images of the one's I tossed. However, I expect that problem to be only temporary, as I'm refusing to work on any antique computers, which also allows me to toss old power supplies, cables, PCB's, etc. That's much easier than running an antique computah warehouse. I suspect that you'll be quite happy with scanned manuals. There's not as handy as the printed variety, but they do have the advantage of being searchable, which makes them quite superior to printed manuals. If you're scanning to PDF, try: http://www.tracker-software.com/product/pdf-xchange-viewer (free) which has a built in OCR reader which can be used to make scanned PDF's searchable. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#4
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A sign of the times ...
On Wed, 3 Dec 2014, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 4 Dec 2014 01:42:14 -0000, "Arfa Daily" wrote: Has anyone else been through this process and felt better for it at the end, or am I just going to regret doing it for years to come ... ? Yep. I have a similar problem. Most of the "recent" manuals, which means in the 30 years, I've recycled or sold. They're all available in PDF form somewhere. The really old stuff, dating back to the 1960's through 1980's, I'll keep for now, as they're often difficult to find. I've been scanning these as needed, and posting them to various public archives. However, since there's no money in doing this, it's a very low priority for me. Fortunately, I have an easy way to do the scans. One of my customers has a Canon ImageRunner 5000 copier, that will do double sided scan and OCR reads to PDF very quickly. Video of the machine in operation: http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/CanonImageRunner5000.wmv That actually describes the issue. More recent stuff was done in digital form to begin with, so it was only a matter of putting it online. Older material requires scanning, and that takes time and maybe money, so it's less likely to appear. If it begins in digital form, the cost of putting it online is minimal. Even the US patent office, which has all the patents online, has mere scans of the patents up to a certain year, it being too much trouble to turn them into text, while after that certain year, it was done electronically anyway, so full searches can be done on those later patents. Michael |
#5
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A sign of the times ...
On Wed, 3 Dec 2014 23:54:55 -0500, Michael Black wrote:
Even the US patent office, which has all the patents online, has mere scans of the patents up to a certain year, it being too much trouble to turn them into text, while after that certain year, it was done electronically anyway, so full searches can be done on those later patents. Not really. The USPTO has just scans, but if you use Google Patent search, the PDF files were all fed to an OCR reader and are searchable. I just tried some really early patents and they were all searchable. The basic text of the patent, in searchable ASCII, is also available on the Google Patent search pages: https://www.google.com/patents/ http://www.google.com/advanced_patent_search Unfortunately, Google made a mess of the OCR reading on some patents, so don't expect perfection. For my own devious purposes, I make sure that all my PDF manuals are OCR read and searchable. I then use a text search tool, such as Agent Ransack, to find the manuals or search the contents: http://www.mythicsoft.com/agentransack Some manuals arrive in MS Word format, which Agent Ransack can also handle if I enable the "search MS Office format" checkbox. It's a long way from the paperless office, but it's a lurch in the right direction. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#6
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A sign of the times ...
"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
... In my workshop, I have four four-drawer filing cabinets absolutely jam-packed with service manuals that I have collected over more than 40 years in the business. The thing is, that I almost never go to them any more. My first stop is almost always the archive of downloaded manuals on the computer, and if the one I want is not there, then online to one of the excellent archives to be found there, to download it. And if I can't find one, then the item is probably not worth the fixing time anyway. So, even though it's been a bit heart-wrenching, I've started ditching all the old paper manuals, with a view to getting rid of three of those cabinets, and winning back the space. As well as doing this, I have also been sorting out the many many cabinets of small spares, and been seriously rationalising what is kept. It's really hard, and I keep thinking "I'm gonna need that next week" as something else goes in the bin. But at the same time, it is also sort of 'invigorating' to be restoring some order and tidiness to the workshop. Has anyone else been through this process and felt better for it at the end, or am I just going to regret doing it for years to come ... ? Arfa Oh, yes. We have tons of old Hitachi, Sony, JVC, RCA etc vcr manuals, Pioneer crt big-screen manuals, and on and on. Better off just to throw them away. Way back when, they were golden. I do think that when I retire I can pick a bit of change selling original McIntosh, Marantz, Denon, Kenwood etc audio manuals on eBay. Even have a collection of old B&O manuals I suspect I could get fairly good money for. Sign of the times indeed - I mostly use digital copies anymore also. Big 24" monitor on the bench helps the old eyes. Mark Z. |
#7
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A sign of the times ...
I compulsively collected service manuals -- especially for the Sony products I
owned -- and, as you've seen, that collecting came in handy just yesterday. When I was a kid, the Enoch Pratt Free Library * had volumes of the Rider service manuals, which I sometimes pored over. I would be cautious about destroying them. You'd probably be better off boxing them, and putting the boxes in a safe, dry place until you find someone who'll give them a good home. * For those who aren't Baltimorons... The Pratt library was endowed by a wealthy merchant. It was (and probably still is) considered one of the world's great public libraries. It was the first place to go when I had to do research for high school papers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enoch_Pratt_Free_Library |
#8
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A sign of the times ...
Arfa Daily wrote:
In my workshop, I have four four-drawer filing cabinets absolutely jam-packed with service manuals that I have collected over more than 40 years in the business. ** Wow, I have hardly any after 40 years in the same business. Here in Australia, service manuals for most pro audio products have long been hard to get and/or cost real money. The info (other than a schematic) provided in the vast majority is so poor as to be worthless. I am thinking of manuals from Crown, Yamaha, QSC, Phase Linear and others. One problem is that the folk who write these manuals are never service techs. Often the product designer is given the job or some one associated with the design team who picked the short straw. If you have never made your living doing bench servicing, how in hell can you expect to advise those that do ? Another problem is that at the time of writing, no actual products have been sold so none of the product's design faults or reliability issues have come to light. Most manufacturers are unwilling to put anything potentially damaging to their reputations into print in any case - lest a customer might see it! I needed a schem for the EV 2.0kW power amp a few year back and was offered a full manual for $20 from the local EV agents. When it arrived it was a joke. All the schematics were drawn without dots - you simply could not tell if any two lines that crossed at right angles were joined at that point or not !! I rang to complain and was immediately told they are all like that - sorry. The manual for the Crown PSA-2 amplifier has procedures for testing the amp after repairs have been done. The final test is for the VI limiter and involves driving each channel at 20V rms into a 1 ohm load. What the manual writer did not take into account is that if the VI limiter circuit *fails* to operate correctly, that channel will instantly blow up! Hell of a test - eh. Manuals for many QSC amps ( USA series etc) give details on connecting an output transformer to convert the amps for 70V line operation. QSC even sell a 300W transformer for the job. But don't you dare do it ! The current limiting scheme QSC use is a real oddball and works only with resistive loads. Soon as a low or subsonic frequency comes along, the iron core in the output tranny saturates and instantly blows up the amp. One of my customers found out the hard way after and simultaneously destroying four brand new USA900s. Over the years, I have had to evolve my own methods of safely bench testing amplifiers, before and after repairs, including non invasive setting of bias levels and checking VI limiters for correct operation into reactive dummy loads. Far as I am concerned, Service Manuals are mainly for light entertainment reading. ..... Phil |
#9
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A sign of the times ...
"Far as I am concerned, Service Manuals are mainly for light entertainment reading. "
You forgot to mention the errors. I mean on the perfect copies. The really nice ones with no pixelisation or anything. Yup, the wire has 12 volts on it here, but over there has zero. Happens all the time. You know it almost seems like they want nobody to b able to fix this ****, or be able to understand how it really works to fix this ****. and that is not just Walmart **** either. |
#10
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A sign of the times ...
One of the ways companies keep down the price of their cheaper products is to
cram everything -- including hundreds of SMDs -- onto one PCB. Such products are all-but unrepairable. |
#11
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A sign of the times ...
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#12
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A sign of the times ...
Arfa Daily wrote:
In my workshop, I have four four-drawer filing cabinets absolutely jam-packed with service manuals that I have collected over more than 40 years in the business. The thing is, that I almost never go to them any more. My first stop is almost always the archive of downloaded manuals on the computer, and if the one I want is not there, then online to one of the excellent archives to be found there, to download it. And if I can't find one, then the item is probably not worth the fixing time anyway. So, even though it's been a bit heart-wrenching, I've started ditching all the old paper manuals, with a view to getting rid of three of those cabinets, and winning back the space. As well as doing this, I have also been sorting out the many many cabinets of small spares, and been seriously rationalising what is kept. It's really hard, and I keep thinking "I'm gonna need that next week" as something else goes in the bin. But at the same time, it is also sort of 'invigorating' to be restoring some order and tidiness to the workshop. Has anyone else been through this process and felt better for it at the end, or am I just going to regret doing it for years to come ... ? I run out of space and toss stuff, but never think "I'm so glad I threw that away" years later. With no doubt many publications have not and will not be scanned, or if they are many are just unusable due to poor quality. Good quality manuals are fun too read too. I think I still have the plain manual for a Franklin apple ][ clone that had a well presented and full schematic- it was standard docs that shipped with the machine. Apple never bothered with this. |
#13
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A sign of the times ...
On 12/30/2014 8:12 PM, Cydrome Leader wrote:
Arfa Daily wrote: In my workshop, I have four four-drawer filing cabinets absolutely jam-packed with service manuals that I have collected over more than 40 years in the business. The thing is, that I almost never go to them any more. My first stop is almost always the archive of downloaded manuals on the computer, and if the one I want is not there, then online to one of the excellent archives to be found there, to download it. And if I can't find one, then the item is probably not worth the fixing time anyway. So, even though it's been a bit heart-wrenching, I've started ditching all the old paper manuals, with a view to getting rid of three of those cabinets, and winning back the space. As well as doing this, I have also been sorting out the many many cabinets of small spares, and been seriously rationalising what is kept. It's really hard, and I keep thinking "I'm gonna need that next week" as something else goes in the bin. But at the same time, it is also sort of 'invigorating' to be restoring some order and tidiness to the workshop. Has anyone else been through this process and felt better for it at the end, or am I just going to regret doing it for years to come ... ? I run out of space and toss stuff, but never think "I'm so glad I threw that away" years later. With no doubt many publications have not and will not be scanned, or if they are many are just unusable due to poor quality. Good quality manuals are fun too read too. I think I still have the plain manual for a Franklin apple ][ clone that had a well presented and full schematic- it was standard docs that shipped with the machine. Apple never bothered with this. One problem is that some manuals were never converted to PDF and are simply not available anywhere. I wanted to program a GAL20V8. There was no information available anywhere. Fortunately, I saved the original databook. In 2010, I replaced my carpets with wood flooring. I had to remove everything from the rooms. When I put it back, I sorted/compacted/organized the stuff. It's 2015 and the family room still looks like a hoarders fantasy with piles of stuff that I'm gonna throw out...I promise... Yes, I live alone ;-) After marathon trips to the thrift store and/or the dump, it usually takes me about a week to realize that the thing I really, really need today was in the last purge. The opposite side of that coin is that if I hadn't purged it, I probably wouldn't be able to find it anyway. I have most of what I need on one Anthro Cart in front of my easy chair. But I still have to move something to make a space to put down a coffee cup. If I threw away everything I haven't touched in a decade, the place would be barren. |
#14
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A sign of the times ...
mike wrote:
On 12/30/2014 8:12 PM, Cydrome Leader wrote: Arfa Daily wrote: In my workshop, I have four four-drawer filing cabinets absolutely jam-packed with service manuals that I have collected over more than 40 years in the business. The thing is, that I almost never go to them any more. My first stop is almost always the archive of downloaded manuals on the computer, and if the one I want is not there, then online to one of the excellent archives to be found there, to download it. And if I can't find one, then the item is probably not worth the fixing time anyway. So, even though it's been a bit heart-wrenching, I've started ditching all the old paper manuals, with a view to getting rid of three of those cabinets, and winning back the space. As well as doing this, I have also been sorting out the many many cabinets of small spares, and been seriously rationalising what is kept. It's really hard, and I keep thinking "I'm gonna need that next week" as something else goes in the bin. But at the same time, it is also sort of 'invigorating' to be restoring some order and tidiness to the workshop. Has anyone else been through this process and felt better for it at the end, or am I just going to regret doing it for years to come ... ? I run out of space and toss stuff, but never think "I'm so glad I threw that away" years later. With no doubt many publications have not and will not be scanned, or if they are many are just unusable due to poor quality. Good quality manuals are fun too read too. I think I still have the plain manual for a Franklin apple ][ clone that had a well presented and full schematic- it was standard docs that shipped with the machine. Apple never bothered with this. One problem is that some manuals were never converted to PDF and are simply not available anywhere. I wanted to program a GAL20V8. There was no information available anywhere. Fortunately, I saved the original databook. In 2010, I replaced my carpets with wood flooring. I had to remove everything from the rooms. When I put it back, I sorted/compacted/organized the stuff. It's 2015 and the family room still looks like a hoarders fantasy with piles of stuff that I'm gonna throw out...I promise... Yes, I live alone ;-) After marathon trips to the thrift store and/or the dump, it usually takes me about a week to realize that the thing I really, really need today was in the last purge. The opposite side of that coin is that if I hadn't purged it, I probably wouldn't be able to find it anyway. I have most of what I need on one Anthro Cart in front of my easy chair. But I still have to move something to make a space to put down a coffee cup. If I threw away everything I haven't touched in a decade, the place would be barren. I like "stuff" so the last project was putting up tall shelving along some walls. It beats stacks of boxes and Akro-bins. Some stuff just doesn't fit and most projects live on fiberglass cafeteria type trays, which can't be stacked so they take up table tops. Like gas, I can fill any amount of space presented with no problem. |
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