Who among you has determined to close the doors to your shop once HDTV
broadcast is mandated in 2008 (or is that 2006, they keep changing their
damn minds)?
I was just curious how many people this move will drive right out of
business due to the burdens placed on them -- i.e., all new test equipment
must be purchased for the new format; ever-worsening support from
manufacturers; the new and increasingly more reliable, lower-power display
technologies in the not-too-distant future.

Despite all the bunk I keep reading in ES&T about NESDA & NARDA working with
manufacturers to make the market more servicer-friendly, I continue to find
the reverse seems to be the case, and fully expect it to only get worse.

How many of you actually see a bright future in servicing consumer
electronics?

Ray L. Volts:
Doom and gloom???
My father had a radio and TV repair shop in the late 40's & 50's, and he
closed the doors in the 60's when color TV and solid state started to take
over..... stating the same doom and gloom things we always hear when new
technologies come out.
The same was more recently true when digital circuitry and microprocessor
control started appearing in consumer electronics devices and when VCRs, CD
players, etc became regular consumer items.... at all of these mileposts,
there were many shops and techs that went out of business or went into
different fields .... and, as always, ongoing on-the-job training and
continuing education are essential and the gradual process of acquiring
additional and necessary test equipment and tools to deal with the new
technologies helped the guys that stayed in the field cope with and deal
with the new technologies.
Before my father passed away, he was amazed and stunned with the quantity of
stuff being fixed and profitability of my shop in the heyday of early color
TV repair in the 70's and 80's and the early VCR repair in the 80's. .....
he just could not believe that anyone could profitably service this "new"
technology with all the new test equipment, tools and training that were
needed. And, as always, there are new mileposts coming our way.... all
the time.
My feeling is that there will always be a need for consumer electronics
repair...... but...... as in the past..... things change..... and we can
either change with the times and spend the time and money to adapt or go
away and do something else. We have that choice.
--
Best Regards,
Daniel Sofie
Electronics Supply & Repair
-------------------------------


"Ray L. Volts" wrote in message
...
Who among you has determined to close the doors to your shop once HDTV
broadcast is mandated in 2008 (or is that 2006, they keep changing their
damn minds)?
I was just curious how many people this move will drive right out of
business due to the burdens placed on them -- i.e., all new test equipment
must be purchased for the new format; ever-worsening support from
manufacturers; the new and increasingly more reliable, lower-power display
technologies in the not-too-distant future.

Despite all the bunk I keep reading in ES&T about NESDA & NARDA working
with
manufacturers to make the market more servicer-friendly, I continue to
find
the reverse seems to be the case, and fully expect it to only get worse.

How many of you actually see a bright future in servicing consumer
electronics?

Comments imbedded in trimmed posts...

"Sofie" wrote in message
...
My feeling is that there will always be a need for consumer electronics
repair...... but...... as in the past..... things change..... and we can
either change with the times and spend the time and money to adapt or go
away and do something else. We have that choice.

Well said,Dan. I see HDTV as a great opportunity. As those who can't or
won't compete go away it leaves the market more open for me to skim the
cream from. As for test equipment, I am, as most are, struggling with the
problem of limited choices in HDTV equipment. The choices are not very
good. While the Sencore stuff is nice, the lack of IEEE1394 and DVI outputs
makes it seem a wasted investment at this time. For now, most
troubleshooting can be done without special HDTV equipment, since virtually
all of the repairs on signal related matters involve board swapping.
Eventually we will need to upgrade the equipment, but I am seriously
considering using an HD card in my computer and an DVHS machine in the
meantime. I think a new thread discussing this problem would be a good
idea.


"Ray L. Volts" wrote in message
...

Despite all the bunk I keep reading in ES&T about NESDA & NARDA working
with
manufacturers to make the market more servicer-friendly, I continue to
find
the reverse seems to be the case, and fully expect it to only get worse.

This, Ray, I have to agree with. In the 20+ years that I have been in this
business I have repeatedly tried to justify membership in NESDA and keep
coming to the same conclusion, it is not a very useful organization. They
could do so much more to represent the interest of servicers to the
manufacturers, but really do very little. I ask myself, would our lot be
worse off it it did not exist? I have to answer no. Would I be able to
make my business more profitable or expand if I joined. I ahve to answer
no.

Leonard Caillouet

Who among you has determined to close the doors to your shop once HDTV
broadcast is mandated in 2008 (or is that 2006, they keep changing their
damn minds)?

I don't see how reputable service shops will go out of business when HDTV comes
out. Techs will have to learn and get new repair tools, but ultimately, HDTV
may actually help servicers.

An average HDTV set is a significant investment to the consumer, so when it
breaks it will be more likely for that consumer to send the set in for repair
rather than spend a lot more money to buy a new HDTV. - Reinhart

"Clifton T. Sharp Jr." wrote in message
...
Ray L. Volts wrote:
Who among you has determined to close the doors to your shop once HDTV
broadcast is mandated in 2008 (or is that 2006, they keep changing their
damn minds)?

1. HDTV isn't going to be cheap. Expensive sets get fixed. Even if they
get modularized, a la PCs, parts won't be cheap; but they won't, they'll
stay proprietary in both design and assembly construction.

The sets should be affordable for the masses by 2008, and downright cheap in
another 10 years, if you use the past few years as a model for price drop
rates.
I was thinking a little farther into the future when I posited that
hypothetical. I should have mentioned this, instead of implying the time
frame ends at 2008 by using the conversion to HDTV as a marker.

2. I just bought a brand-new NTSC-only set. The FCC may mandate nothing
but HD on the air, but cable systems aren't going to drop their NTSC
any time soon. Lots of others like me are going to find that they can
stick to NTSC and still receive programming.

I was under the impression the television industry as a whole would be
required to change over to HDTV format exclusively. But it shouldn't matter
if cable systems did ditch NTSC, because I'm sure there would be set-top
HDTV-to-NTSC converter boxes like the ones they'll be offering to broadcast
viewers.

I run a shop in an area that can definately not be described as
anything even remotely close to being affluent but, what I am
discovering more and more often is that when a customer gets a
"reasonable" amount of service from a product say, 5 or 6 years, he is
more inclined to replace the unit when it requires service, if just to
get the latest gizmo with the latest whiz-bang features. It doesn't
seem to matter whether the old one cost $200 or $2000. It just seems
to be an excuse to go shopping.

On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 09:12:38 -0500, "Ray L. Volts"
wrote:

Who among you has determined to close the doors to your shop once HDTV
broadcast is mandated in 2008 (or is that 2006, they keep changing their
damn minds)?
I was just curious how many people this move will drive right out of
business due to the burdens placed on them -- i.e., all new test equipment
must be purchased for the new format; ever-worsening support from
manufacturers; the new and increasingly more reliable, lower-power display
technologies in the not-too-distant future.

Despite all the bunk I keep reading in ES&T about NESDA & NARDA working with
manufacturers to make the market more servicer-friendly, I continue to find
the reverse seems to be the case, and fully expect it to only get worse.

How many of you actually see a bright future in servicing consumer
electronics?

I do! And alread am doing HDTV. Big bucks for servicing this stuff. I'm not
quitting and Im 58.


"Ray L. Volts" wrote in message
...
Who among you has determined to close the doors to your shop once HDTV
broadcast is mandated in 2008 (or is that 2006, they keep changing their
damn minds)?
I was just curious how many people this move will drive right out of
business due to the burdens placed on them -- i.e., all new test equipment
must be purchased for the new format; ever-worsening support from
manufacturers; the new and increasingly more reliable, lower-power display
technologies in the not-too-distant future.

Despite all the bunk I keep reading in ES&T about NESDA & NARDA working
with
manufacturers to make the market more servicer-friendly, I continue to
find
the reverse seems to be the case, and fully expect it to only get worse.

How many of you actually see a bright future in servicing consumer
electronics?

Plasma screens. The Phosphor is the big limiting factor on how long it will
last.
Burn in seems to be pretty common with static images, so I am sure they are
running the phosphor near its limits.

Plasma screens also are power hogs and must be kept cool. That is why they
all have the cooling fans.
The failures are almost always a board level repair and good luck buying a
board if you are not an authorized servicer for the manufacture of the
product. Very few have field service schematics available, those that do
are just for the power supply. Most boards for these run over $400 on up.
But people will still pay premium to have them fixed.

HDTV is also another big money maker, IF you can learn to identify what is a
software or digital signal processing problem versus the analog part of the
display causing the problem. All too often manufactures will have
software/firmware bugs that show up only under very specific set of
circumstances, without manufactures support and a half-way knowledgeable
customer willing to log when the problem happens and you suddenly have a set
that cannot be repaired by normal means.

David

Ray L. Volts wrote in message
...

"Sofie" wrote in message
...
Ray L. Volts:
Doom and gloom???
The same was more recently true when digital circuitry and
microprocessor
control started appearing in consumer electronics devices and when VCRs,
CD
players, etc became regular consumer items....

Before my father passed away, he was amazed and stunned with the
quantity
of
stuff being fixed and profitability of my shop in the heyday of early
color
TV repair in the 70's and 80's and the early VCR repair in the 80's.
......

The TV's still employed high-current devices and VCRs and CD players
employ
mechanisms. Servicers have continued to enjoy relatively high failure
rates
due to these design aspects.
My greatest concern is the inevitable onslaught of products of vastly
increased reliability. The upcoming low-current displays (e.g., OLED is
quickly being perfected) will likely fail far less frequently. Video
recorders will soon require no moving parts at all, which means you'll see
a
lot fewer of those, too.

I haven't studied plasma screen technology in detail, but from what I have
read, it seems they might use much lower current circuitry than CRT sets,
which should translate into increased reliability. Someone who has
serviced
plasma screens can enlighten me as to the current required for
bubble/pixel
firing. I imagine it must be relatively small, considering the electrical
pathways are super thin and are an integral part of the front glass layer.
But, if the firing current is high, then yeah, I could see repair
potential
there. If a relatively low firing current is used, then that would mean a
much lower current power supply is required and therefore, no, I wouldn't
see repair potential anywhere close to CRT sets.

As to the high cost of plasma screens making the consumer more likely to
bring in for repair than to dump it, 40" plasma sets were $10k a year ago,
but today even a huge 50" unit costs around $4k. They should be downright
affordable by 2008. If a low-current design is used, then I'd guess the
most likely part to fail would be the screen itself. This part alone will
probably cost almost what a brand new set would, so there's one more lost
repair.
Does anyone have data regarding the projected life span of a plasma tube
(if
you can call it a tube)? There are no guns to wear out, but does the
encapsulated plasma ever suffer breakdown?

Also, in the case of plasma screens, there won't be a need for the
consumer
to have an "expert" come to their house to set up their new costly gear,
since there's [presumably] no such thing as convergence, purity or focus
settings with plasma screens. I'm guessing there shouldn't be, due to the
screen's digital, matrix-driven design. Again, someone who has serviced
plasma sets can enlighten me.

It will be interesting to see if, 10-15 years down the road, it'll be
profitable to rely on the infrequent repair jobs resulting from heretofore
unheard of reliability in consumer electronics products.

"David" wrote in message
...
Plasma screens. The Phosphor is the big limiting factor on how long it
will
last.
Burn in seems to be pretty common with static images, so I am sure they
are
running the phosphor near its limits.

ahh... that should keep the screen makers in biz at least..

Plasma screens also are power hogs and must be kept cool.

I see. Ok, in that case somewhat lower MTBF's can be predicted. That's
good -- for servicers anyway.

The failures are almost always a board level repair and good luck buying a
board if you are not an authorized servicer for the manufacture of the
product.

That, however, sucks.

HDTV is also another big money maker, IF you can learn to identify what is
a
software or digital signal processing problem versus the analog part of
the
display causing the problem.

You can have all the training and test gear required, but what good will
that be when you're seeing only 5 sets a month?
I still worry about how viable the repair biz will be when the truly
low-power, high-MTBF displays come into widespread usage. And I absolutely
believe such technologies will be prevalent within the next 10 years.
It may have taken 4 decades to move from NTSC to HDTV, but I suspect there
won't be such delays in bringing ever thinner, lighter weight, lower power
units to market.
Industry in general no longer seems concerned about protecting livelihoods,
so I have no reason to believe TV manufacturers will give a second thought
to new product release on that basis.

I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.

-Ray-

"Steven" wrote in message
...
I run a shop in an area that can definately not be described as
anything even remotely close to being affluent but, what I am
discovering more and more often is that when a customer gets a
"reasonable" amount of service from a product say, 5 or 6 years, he is
more inclined to replace the unit when it requires service, if just to
get the latest gizmo with the latest whiz-bang features. It doesn't
seem to matter whether the old one cost $200 or $2000. It just seems
to be an excuse to go shopping.

Yep, the "toss it" mentality prevails today, and I suspect that will
continue to be the case, probably becoming an even more widespread mindset.
Oh, there will be that small percentage who will keep their old sets going,
but only if the repair cost is less than 60% of the cost of a brand new
gizmo with all the latest features. And even then, they're only likely to
have it serviced once during its useful lifetime.
Factor into the equation the enhanced reliability of the next generation
technologies and it doesn't seem to bode well for the repair biz in general.

-Ray-

"Jack" wrote in message
.. .
I do! And alread am doing HDTV. Big bucks for servicing this stuff. I'm
not
quitting and Im 58.


"Ray L. Volts" wrote in message
...

snip (it hurts to snip yourself!)

How many of you actually see a bright future in servicing consumer
electronics?

Thats's all well and good for the next few years, and for people who aren't
10-20 years away from retirement. But what happens 10 years from now when
we have 1/4" thin displays with minuscule power requirements? I think it's
gonna mean big trouble for shop owners.

Ray L. Volts:
Reading between the lines of your posting here you are guessing that there
will be a lot of techs and shops that will soon get out of the
business........ that is good for the ones that have make the proper
investments and are prepared to stay because they will now get the repair
jobs that the out of business shops were once getting.
--
Best Regards,
Daniel Sofie
Electronics Supply & Repair
-----------------------------

"Ray L. Volts" wrote in message
...

"Jack" wrote in message
.. .
I do! And alread am doing HDTV. Big bucks for servicing this stuff. I'm
not
quitting and Im 58.


"Ray L. Volts" wrote in message
...

snip (it hurts to snip yourself!)

How many of you actually see a bright future in servicing consumer
electronics?

Thats's all well and good for the next few years, and for people who
aren't
10-20 years away from retirement. But what happens 10 years from now when
we have 1/4" thin displays with minuscule power requirements? I think
it's
gonna mean big trouble for shop owners.

Ray L. Volts wrote:

"Jack" wrote in message
.. .

I do! And alread am doing HDTV. Big bucks for servicing this stuff. I'm

not

quitting and Im 58.


"Ray L. Volts" wrote in message
...


snip (it hurts to snip yourself!)


How many of you actually see a bright future in servicing consumer
electronics?


Thats's all well and good for the next few years, and for people who aren't
10-20 years away from retirement. But what happens 10 years from now when
we have 1/4" thin displays with minuscule power requirements? I think it's
gonna mean big trouble for shop owners.


When everything is one in big IC connected to one TFT panel, it's over
(unless the on/off switch, assuming there is one, needs replacing).

Even with low-current devices the reliability rate may not be much better.
Just think for every engineer making the device work, there is probably
another engineer trying to make it cheaper, and someone else trying to find
the cheapest way to produce it and get it to market.

The ideal device from a manufacturer's view would be one that works
reasonably well, is not serviceable, and then dies in a few years so the
consumer will have to replace it. Just like today. I doubt that HDTV,
low-current display devices, or ram based recorders will change that
philosophy.

I have often wondered what the tv would look like if it were designed to
meet the following criteria, and how much it would cost to build.
1. Money is not a consideration. Manufacturing cost is not a consideration.
2. Best possible picture, using existing technology.
3. Most reliable circuit design.
4. Highest quality components available.
In other words what would it cost to make the best, most reliable set. I
only want to sell you one that will last forever.
5. Of course in the unlikely event this set ever does fail, say 40 or 60
years from now, it must be serviceable. No proprietary parts, or
unavailable service manuals, etc.

Just a thought.

Bill Renfro
Christian Technology

"Ray L. Volts" wrote in message
...
I'm
more concerned about increasing reliability (i.e., decreasing failure
rates)
that will accompany the next generation of low-current products, as well
as
the next generation of video recorders that will use no mechanisms. These
are coming sooner than most think.

I have no problem investing the effort to keep abreast of the new tech or
investing in new gear. But I'm not sure the monetary payoff in the long
run
will make most people glad they made those investments.

"Ray L. Volts" wrote in message news:beu4r9
Yep, the "toss it" mentality prevails today, and I suspect that will
continue to be the case, probably becoming an even more widespread mindset.
Oh, there will be that small percentage who will keep their old sets going,
but only if the repair cost is less than 60% of the cost of a brand new
gizmo with all the latest features. And even then, they're only likely to
have it serviced once during its useful lifetime.
Factor into the equation the enhanced reliability of the next generation
technologies and it doesn't seem to bode well for the repair biz in general.

Not to mention that as the technology matures, many companies based in
China will crank out ridiculously cheap, disposable TV's by the
thousands. Those sets will be cheap enough that if they die in 3-5
years, they will get replaced instead of repaired.

I just recently picked up a Tevion 27" pure flat tube TV for $199 at
Aldi's.
I can't imagine someone with a similar TV really wanting to pay to get
it repaired in 5-years.

Look at DVD players. Will anyone really pay to get a $39.99 Apex DVD
player repaired? I highly doubt it.

I would imagine factory authorized service centers will still have
lots of business though, as they are who people call when electronics
needs servicing under warranty. Even though the technology is more
reliable, there are still plenty of brand new TV's needing warranty
service. Even newer technologies like LCD will still need lots of
service as some people may return theirs for dead pixels and such.
I've bought 2 19" LCD flat panel monitors, and I had to return them 3
times to get ones without dead pixels.

Shawn

bigmike:
Gee, you can't hardly obtain (or afford) the boards now..... that is why
just about all of us troubleshoot down to a component level.
--
Best Regards,
Daniel Sofie
Electronics Supply & Repair
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

snipperoo:
"bigmike" wrote in message
My father, who was one hell of a good technician before he died,
always said that someday you will not be able to buy a part for a tv, just
a
board. It didn't quite happen in his lifetime, but I bet it might in mine.

It's all a matter of supply and demand.
If the demand is for the cheap product then the supply will follow suit.

It works the same way in the repair business.
If there is no demand to have the cheap stuff fixed, then don't follow it.
Migrate to repairing the more costly equipment and leave the rest for the
returns department at Wal-Mart.

Just a thought,
Bill Jr





"Shawn Lin" wrote in message
om...
"Ray L. Volts" wrote in message
news:beu4r9
Yep, the "toss it" mentality prevails today, and I suspect that will
continue to be the case, probably becoming an even more widespread
mindset.
Oh, there will be that small percentage who will keep their old sets
going,
but only if the repair cost is less than 60% of the cost of a brand new
gizmo with all the latest features. And even then, they're only likely
to
have it serviced once during its useful lifetime.
Factor into the equation the enhanced reliability of the next generation
technologies and it doesn't seem to bode well for the repair biz in
general.

Not to mention that as the technology matures, many companies based in
China will crank out ridiculously cheap, disposable TV's by the
thousands. Those sets will be cheap enough that if they die in 3-5
years, they will get replaced instead of repaired.

I just recently picked up a Tevion 27" pure flat tube TV for $199 at
Aldi's.
I can't imagine someone with a similar TV really wanting to pay to get
it repaired in 5-years.

Look at DVD players. Will anyone really pay to get a $39.99 Apex DVD
player repaired? I highly doubt it.

I would imagine factory authorized service centers will still have
lots of business though, as they are who people call when electronics
needs servicing under warranty. Even though the technology is more
reliable, there are still plenty of brand new TV's needing warranty
service. Even newer technologies like LCD will still need lots of
service as some people may return theirs for dead pixels and such.
I've bought 2 19" LCD flat panel monitors, and I had to return them 3
times to get ones without dead pixels.

Shawn

Add to that there are some low priced stuff that can be profitable with
volume.
If for example a particular brand uses a similar chassis design across lots
of models (Thomson for one), and they sell tons of them on the market,
common failures are bound to show up when they start failing in mass around
3 to 5 years of age. Those are the easy money quick repair jobs that fill
in during the slow times of the big ticket repairs for the smaller shops.

How many shops were able to stay in business from the Thomson TOB ground
issue and still see them come in.
Provided no one has botched up the repair and just the tuner grounds need
reworked and a quick check of the eeprom to verify no corrupted data, easy
pocket change. A long time ago we started flat rate repairing these units
at $65 (pre-approved), minor parts included, with a $25 deposit left at time
of drop off. If the person was not serious about having it fixed, no
problem, they took the tv home. Major repairs or repairs that did not fall
into the known fix or 5 minute troubleshooting time, got a high ball flat
estimate (with the crt and flyback already ruled out) of $100 to cover the
expected 1 hour total troubleshooting and repair time. It is no longer
profitable to do any estimates before work repairs due to the extra time
required to try and try to get a hold of people, on low cost items.

With lots of experienced, a good technician can in a few minutes know if the
repair is going to be a straight forward repair or a time consuming one in
probably 95% of the repair cases.

David

Bill Jr wrote in message
om...
It's all a matter of supply and demand.
If the demand is for the cheap product then the supply will follow suit.

It works the same way in the repair business.
If there is no demand to have the cheap stuff fixed, then don't follow it.
Migrate to repairing the more costly equipment and leave the rest for the
returns department at Wal-Mart.

Just a thought,
Bill Jr





"Shawn Lin" wrote in message
om...
"Ray L. Volts" wrote in message
news:beu4r9
Yep, the "toss it" mentality prevails today, and I suspect that will
continue to be the case, probably becoming an even more widespread
mindset.
Oh, there will be that small percentage who will keep their old sets
going,
but only if the repair cost is less than 60% of the cost of a brand
new
gizmo with all the latest features. And even then, they're only
likely
to
have it serviced once during its useful lifetime.
Factor into the equation the enhanced reliability of the next
generation
technologies and it doesn't seem to bode well for the repair biz in
general.

Not to mention that as the technology matures, many companies based in
China will crank out ridiculously cheap, disposable TV's by the
thousands. Those sets will be cheap enough that if they die in 3-5
years, they will get replaced instead of repaired.

I just recently picked up a Tevion 27" pure flat tube TV for $199 at
Aldi's.
I can't imagine someone with a similar TV really wanting to pay to get
it repaired in 5-years.

Look at DVD players. Will anyone really pay to get a $39.99 Apex DVD
player repaired? I highly doubt it.

I would imagine factory authorized service centers will still have
lots of business though, as they are who people call when electronics
needs servicing under warranty. Even though the technology is more
reliable, there are still plenty of brand new TV's needing warranty
service. Even newer technologies like LCD will still need lots of
service as some people may return theirs for dead pixels and such.
I've bought 2 19" LCD flat panel monitors, and I had to return them 3
times to get ones without dead pixels.

Shawn

"Sofie" wrote in message
...
Ray L. Volts:
Reading between the lines of your posting here you are guessing that there
will be a lot of techs and shops that will soon get out of the
business........ that is good for the ones that have make the proper
investments and are prepared to stay because they will now get the repair
jobs that the out of business shops were once getting.

It's been occurring steadily for years here. There aren't many left right
now, so the number of those who quit will be small.
I live in a city of 80,000+ population, a fair mix of wealthy, middle-class
and low-income. Ten years ago, there were at least half a dozen shops in
town. Now there are but 2 full-time video shops, only one of which offers
camcorder repair.

I've spoken with the owners of these and other shops in nearby cities and
all of them have expressed a steady decline in their customer base. People
aren't leaving town in droves. Quite the opposite, population continues to
rise.

Shops are finding they must act in cooperative rather than competitive mode
in order to survive -- trading parts, schematics, tips, referrals, etc.
These guys are highly qualified, have the latest Sencore gear (et al), have
been in biz for decades and are scared.

The closest shop out of town is about 30 miles away. I seriously doubt the
decline in customers here is due to them driving their units so far out of
their way or having the long-distance shops come to them. It wouldnt be
worth the hassle or, in the case of a home visit, the added expense. And I
don't for a minute believe consumers are paying to ship their
out-of-warranty units for service.
No, their best choice would be to have competent, in-town techs do the work,
and yet those techs are steadily seeing fewer jobs come in.

Even if a monopoly existed in town were one of the shops to close, I'm not
convinced the remaining shop will maintain a profit margin appealing enough
to sustain it for many more years.

I don't know where you guys are, but I'm sad to say things look rather bleak
in south Texas. If the news is this bad in a city of 80,000 folks, I can
imagine it must be even worse for shops in smaller towns.

-Ray-

Ray L. Volts:
I tend to be an optimist, so I would rather consider that my cup is "half
full" not "half empty."
Obviously things are changing rather dramatically (again) in the consumer
electronics service industry buy as one of my first reply posts
stated....... we have seen a measure of all of this before in previous
decades with other product and technology mileposts.
In my small town, yes, several shops have closed........ and, yes, business
has been generally soft, but with a few less shops in town I am able to
snare some new customers and keep the benches busy.
I plan on staying in the business and keeping busy in my shop...... I
obviously have to continue to be willing to change and do things
differently as the current times demand.
While it is important to be a realist, I temper that with a positive
mind-set and an optimistic outlook.
--
Best Regards,
Daniel Sofie
Electronics Supply & Repair
-------------------------------------------


"Ray L. Volts" wrote in message
...

"Sofie" wrote in message
...
Ray L. Volts:
Reading between the lines of your posting here you are guessing that
there
will be a lot of techs and shops that will soon get out of the
business........ that is good for the ones that have make the proper
investments and are prepared to stay because they will now get the
repair
jobs that the out of business shops were once getting.

It's been occurring steadily for years here. There aren't many left right
now, so the number of those who quit will be small.
I live in a city of 80,000+ population, a fair mix of wealthy,
middle-class
and low-income. Ten years ago, there were at least half a dozen shops in
town. Now there are but 2 full-time video shops, only one of which offers
camcorder repair.

I've spoken with the owners of these and other shops in nearby cities and
all of them have expressed a steady decline in their customer base.
People
aren't leaving town in droves. Quite the opposite, population continues to
rise.

Shops are finding they must act in cooperative rather than competitive
mode
in order to survive -- trading parts, schematics, tips, referrals, etc.
These guys are highly qualified, have the latest Sencore gear (et al),
have
been in biz for decades and are scared.

The closest shop out of town is about 30 miles away. I seriously doubt
the
decline in customers here is due to them driving their units so far out of
their way or having the long-distance shops come to them. It wouldnt be
worth the hassle or, in the case of a home visit, the added expense. And
I
don't for a minute believe consumers are paying to ship their
out-of-warranty units for service.
No, their best choice would be to have competent, in-town techs do the
work,
and yet those techs are steadily seeing fewer jobs come in.

Even if a monopoly existed in town were one of the shops to close, I'm not
convinced the remaining shop will maintain a profit margin appealing
enough
to sustain it for many more years.

I don't know where you guys are, but I'm sad to say things look rather
bleak
in south Texas. If the news is this bad in a city of 80,000 folks, I can
imagine it must be even worse for shops in smaller towns.

-Ray-

"David" wrote in message
...
FYI the #1 reason these are board level repair is due to the construction
of
the boards themselves.

Most of the signal and driver boards use VSLI surface mount ic's with 168
pins soldered to the board. The boards are typically 4 to 8 layer boards,
not unlike a typical 1GHz computer motherboard.

That was my assumption. You don't bother with component level
troubleshooting when you already know the faults are most likely going to be
inside one of a few VLSI chips. And since packing all functions into fewer
and fewer chips is the norm, it means more and more jobs will entail board
level service. I suppose if the chips were available separately and the
tech really really enjoys using his hot air rework station, that's an
option. But since time is money, shops wouldn't bother with it. For
in-home service, it's more practical to do board level anyway. It just
holds less appeal for my analytical side.

Some manufactures will 'loan' out any special equipment required to
perform the
alignments following a repair in rural areas for authorized servicers.

I hope ya don't mind my picking your brains, but...
Interesting it should require alignment at all. I mean, the screen isn't
susceptible to magnetic fields as with a CRT, so no compensation is
required. Each pixel is fired independently, so no convergence, purity,
focus settings are required. I presume the tuner has been reduced to a few
chips and doesn't allow for adjustment there. Everything's digitally
controlled, so presumably there are no sync adjustments. What technician
adjustments are there with these things? Power supply voltages?

Is there a special rig that's required for testing the screen itself?
There's no gun structure and the emissive elements can't be accessed, so I
assume the method for testing one is to hookup a known good controller board
(or stand-alone generator) to it?

-Ray-

A quick look inside any of the little LCD projectors we have tells me
what my future in servicing will be. The PCBs all look like computer
motherboards. Most of the 150 or so units in our campus classrooms have
been very reliable. When one does fail, it's usually nearly obsolete anyway
and the big guns opt for replacement. At any age, individual components are
not available (board level only), so keeping an old one going another year
or two may not pay off in the long run. The technology is moving too fast.
I suspect most of the repairable stuff we see now will be gone in a few
years. Broadcasting digital from studio to display device means most of
the electronics will be "motherboards". Tubes are going away and plasma is
a power hungry side step that will probably go away too.
When I decide to jump on the HDTV bandwagon, my choice for a monitor
will be one of those little projectors. They will display anything you feed
them from the video output of your Commodore 64 or IBM PC (analog VGA or
digital DVI) to 1080i HDTV. There is no such thing as screen burn. LCD
panels don't care what you display or how long it's up there. Your screen
can be a white wall. The downside right now is the expensive lamps they
use, but one demo I saw (Panasonic) has a switch to extend the lamp life at
the expense of image brightness, and another unit featured a 5000 hour
lamp. Gettin' better... almost ready for prime time.
Because there are so many different film size formats from TV 4:3 to
all the Cinemascope variations, with a direct view TV or rear screen
projector there is always some part of the screen that goes unused
(cinemascope bars) part of the time. Buy a big screen TV set and lose half
the viewing space to bars? Nuts to that. I'll take the little tabletop
projo. Prices have come down to match the piano-case projectors, and they
can't compete with the little LCDs for resolution and versitility.
Do I sound like a salesman? Nope. I just work with these little
beauties every day. My home TV is a direct view Sony 36" and I'm very happy
with that. Bigger picture? LCD projo.

Ray

And I'll keep taking those "not worth repairing" 6 to 10 year old big screens
and refurbishing them for resale to somebody who doesn't have $1000 to $2500
for a new one. I'll make $400 - $700 depending on year and size on every one.

"Ray Carlsen" wrote in message
...
A quick look inside any of the little LCD projectors we have tells me
what my future in servicing will be. The PCBs all look like computer
motherboards.
When I decide to jump on the HDTV bandwagon, my choice for a monitor
will be one of those little projectors.
The downside right now is the expensive lamps they
use, but one demo I saw (Panasonic) has a switch to extend the lamp life
at
the expense of image brightness, and another unit featured a 5000 hour
lamp. Gettin' better... almost ready for prime time.

I wonder if, in the not-too-distant future, there will be high-output LED's
which will be suitable for projector use. We're already seeing LED
stoplights, brake lights, etc.

I have often wondered what the tv would look like if it were designed to
meet the following criteria, and how much it would cost to build.
1. Money is not a consideration. Manufacturing cost is not a
consideration.
2. Best possible picture, using existing technology.
3. Most reliable circuit design.
4. Highest quality components available.
In other words what would it cost to make the best, most reliable set.
I
only want to sell you one that will last forever.
5. Of course in the unlikely event this set ever does fail, say 40 or
60
years from now, it must be serviceable. No proprietary parts, or
unavailable service manuals, etc.


HP made a TV monitor once that would come close to your specs.
IIRC it was around $1200 in 1970 dollars. Yipes.

I bought a Magnavox Star System set (t995 chassis) in 1978. The retail on
it was $1200. Really was a good set, picture was as good as any and better
than most sets today. I still have it, and it still worked in 1998. (it's
been in storage since) The crt was noticably soft though. Too bad. It was
pretty much top of the line consumer set back then.
Wonder if any of those HP monitors are still working today, and how the
picture compares with new sets.

"George R. Gonzalez" wrote in message
...


I have often wondered what the tv would look like if it were designed
to
meet the following criteria, and how much it would cost to build.
1. Money is not a consideration. Manufacturing cost is not a
consideration.
2. Best possible picture, using existing technology.
3. Most reliable circuit design.
4. Highest quality components available.
In other words what would it cost to make the best, most reliable set.
I
only want to sell you one that will last forever.
5. Of course in the unlikely event this set ever does fail, say 40 or
60
years from now, it must be serviceable. No proprietary parts, or
unavailable service manuals, etc.


HP made a TV monitor once that would come close to your specs.
IIRC it was around $1200 in 1970 dollars. Yipes.