Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems.

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Default Video showing heavy flour in AA batteries: any way for layman to testNiMH batteries?

I have a Panasonic DECT phone which takes AAA batteries. The ones I am using are 2-3 years old and although they always measure OK on a simple battery meter, give such pathetic call quality that I strongly suspect the have very few amps indeed. (compared to how the phone used to work). When left off the hook, the phone is dead within a day or so.

So I just bought on ebay some new NiMH ones called Rayzel (no reviews available) with an ominously anonymous light green casing. They claim to be 2100 MAH to replace the present 650MAH ones. They say they come from a place called Virginia but are scheduled to take 5 days to get a couple of hundred miles to me by USPS.

Then I saw the video showing how these can apparently weigh as much as the normal ones but be filled with flour or crack or something and in fact be some poxy module a few millimeters in mass. Which, far from giving 2100Ma, gives in reality only 66Ma and looks as if it may well last as long as five minutes so long as no meaningful load is put on it.

Is there any way of testing them to make sure they are what they say they are before leaving misleading positive feedback? I have no way of knowing how long the phone which is designed to be left on the hook is supposed to last when left off the hook. If I buy a very cheap battery tester, would it have no cut out circuits and put a proper constant load on the battery such that if left in place, the voltage may lower over the course of a few minutes connection? (or does that only happen when the battery is actually completely failing)

I also have a Philips TSU500 remote in which I use slightly pricey Sanyo Eneloop batteries supposedly heavily quality controlled by Costco before sale.. They are now possibly as old as 6-8 months and used to last a week or so before stopping working. Now they can go from fully charged (2-3 days in a charger) to dead in 3 days. Again, I am wondering if there is any way to test them before I decide that they need replacing rather than that the TSU500 itself is chewing up batteries and needs replacing!
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Default Video showing heavy flour in AA batteries: any way for layman to test NiMH batteries?

Assuming this isn't a joke...

I don't believe AAA cells can have 2100mAh capacity. So that's a problem.

What ever happened to buying OEM batteries?

If there's a battery store near (such as Interstate), try it.
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Default Video showing heavy flour in AA batteries: any way for layman to test NiMH batteries?

On Sat, 26 Oct 2013 13:31:34 -0700 (PDT), Amanda Riphnykhazova
wrote:

I have a Panasonic DECT phone which takes AAA batteries. The ones I am using are 2-3 years old and although they always measure OK on a simple battery meter, give such pathetic call quality that I strongly suspect the have very few amps indeed. (compared to how the phone used to work). When left off the hook, the phone is dead within a day or so.

So I just bought on ebay some new NiMH ones called Rayzel (no reviews available) with an ominously anonymous light green casing. They claim to be 2100 MAH to replace the present 650MAH ones. They say they come from a place called Virginia but are scheduled to take 5 days to get a couple of hundred miles to me by USPS.

Then I saw the video showing how these can apparently weigh as much as the normal ones but be filled with flour or crack or something and in fact be some poxy module a few millimeters in mass. Which, far from giving 2100Ma, gives in reality only 66Ma and looks as if it may well last as long as five minutes so long as no meaningful load is put on it.

Is there any way of testing them to make sure they are what they say they are before leaving misleading positive feedback? I have no way of knowing how long the phone which is designed to be left on the hook is supposed to last when left off the hook. If I buy a very cheap battery tester, would it have no cut out circuits and put a proper constant load on the battery such that if left in place, the voltage may lower over the course of a few minutes connection? (or does that only happen when the battery is actually completely failing)

I also have a Philips TSU500 remote in which I use slightly pricey Sanyo Eneloop batteries supposedly heavily quality controlled by Costco before sale. They are now possibly as old as 6-8 months and used to last a week or so before stopping working. Now they can go from fully charged (2-3 days in a charger) to dead in 3 days. Again, I am wondering if there is any way to test them before I decide that they need replacing rather than that the TSU500 itself is chewing up batteries and needs replacing!

I wouldn't be surprised if the video is a practical joke. A friend of
mine sent me a link that showed that what is inside the large 6 volt
lantern batteries are just a whole bunch of AA batteries. I told him
that the video was crap. He didn't believe me and went out and bought
one of these batteries and pried the bottom off. Just like I told him
there were 4 large cells in the thing, not a whole bunch of AA cells.
He did call me to tell me I was right and say he felt pretty silly.
Eric
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Default Video showing heavy flour in AA batteries: any way for layman totest NiMH batteries?

On Saturday, October 26, 2013 5:14:32 PM UTC-4, William Sommerwerck wrote:
Assuming this isn't a joke...


I suppose it may well be a joke, look at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOshOXcSkDA and you decide: It even warns viewers off the seller and says they refused to refund ALL of the money paid.

I don't believe AAA cells can have 2100mAh capacity. So that's a problem.


Yes, that occurred to me as well when I saw the video but there seem to be lots of them on ebay and I wondered what they really were and how to test them if they do work on arrival and aren't completely fake. There IS a major leap of faith between something marked 650MAH and an offer of 2100 MAH

What ever happened to buying OEM batteries?

If there's a battery store near (such as Interstate), try it.

I didnt know that Interstate made AAA batteries but how do they compare in price to the ones from Virginia on ebay? Assuming the ones arent just useless
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Default Video showing heavy flour in AA batteries: any way for layman to test NiMH batteries?

"Amanda Riphnykhazova" wrote in message
...

The following aren't cheap, but at least they're from a major manufacturer:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/4PCS-Panason...ht_1345wt_1382

You might also try Thomas Distributing. I buy all my rechargeables from them.

http://www.thomasdistributing.com



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Default Video showing heavy flour in AA batteries: any way for layman totest NiMH batteries?

Thomas Distributing show that they distribute Eneloop NiMH batteries which I wonder about in OP.

I did check with Panasonic and they say they recommend NiMH so I assume I shouldnt be using NiCAD and cant recharge Lithium ones. So how far can I push the milliamps realistically? And, again, is there any way of testing whatever I do end up with please?

I suppose I can just charge them along with the present batteries and leave them next to each other for a few days and see how long they last before they die. But that says nothing about how long any batteries I get are going to LAST?
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Default Video showing heavy flour in AA batteries: any way for layman totest NiMH batteries?

Now I have seen a report that for cordless phones, you should use special low discharge batteries and that ordinary NiMH ones will just die if left off the base So i am not sure I can even perform the test I thought obvious! The low discharge ones say they are something over 900MAH.

There seem to be lots of sellers specifically targeting their sales towards Panasonic cordless phones. I wonder if there is any difference or if "low discharge" means anything (in practical terms)?
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Default Video showing heavy flour in AA batteries: any way for layman to test NiMH batteries?


"Amanda Riphnykhazova"

Now I have seen a report that for cordless phones, you should use special
low discharge batteries and that ordinary NiMH ones will just die if left
off the base

** Total ********.

There seem to be lots of sellers specifically targeting their sales towards
Panasonic cordless phones. I wonder if there is any difference or if "low
discharge" means anything (in practical terms)?

** None.

Cordless phones are normally left on constant charge.

Low discharge cells ( ie Eneloop) have advantage when the device is left
with no use or charge for months on end.

Like a digital camera or torch often is.


..... Phil


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Default Video showing heavy flour in AA batteries: any way for layman totest NiMH batteries?



Yeah, interestingly low discharge is also described as low self-discharge, indicating that they will discharge THEMSELVES if left alone and turned off.."Like a digital camera or torch often is" It doesnt seem to say anything about whether they will discharge any more than other batteries if left 'on' in a working phone. Although the description implies it strongly, doesn't it!


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Default Video showing heavy flour in AA batteries: any way for layman to test NiMH batteries?

"Amanda Riphnykhazova" wrote in message
...

There seem to be lots of sellers specifically targeting their sales
towards Panasonic cordless phones. I wonder if there is any
difference or if "low discharge" means anything (in practical terms)?


It doesn't, because you're presumably leaving the 'phone on the charger base
when it's not in use.

I've owned cordless phones with both nicad and NiMH batteries, and had no
problems with either. You're worrying about something of no importance.


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Default Video showing heavy flour in AA batteries: any way for layman to test NiMH batteries?

"Amanda Riphnykhazova" wrote in message
...

When in use, a battery discharges according to how much current is drawn.
Whether it's a low-self-discharge battery doesn't matter -- unless you're
drawing a tiny bit of current over a long time. Common sense.

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Default Video showing heavy flour in AA batteries: any way for layman to test NiMH batteries?


"Amanda Riphnykhazova"

Yeah, interestingly low discharge is also described as low self-discharge,
indicating that they will discharge THEMSELVES if left alone and turned off.


** Low self discharge implies the opposite.

The self discharge of regular NiMH cells is quite high compared to Alkaline
cells - leave them for a few weeks to a couple of months and most of the
energy is gone.

IIFC, Eneloop claim up to 12 months with 80% retention.

Neither of which has any bearing when used with cordless phones.



..... Phil





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Default Video showing heavy flour in AA batteries: any way for layman to test NiMH batteries?

On Sun, 27 Oct 2013 10:52:42 +1100, "Phil Allison"
wrote:

** Ever pried open a 9V alkaline battery?

There are six cells inside ( LR61s) smaller than AAAA.
... Phil


Sure. No problem. Just short the terminals and the internals will
rapidly be revealed:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/Duracell/Duracell-01.jpg
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/Duracell/Duracell-02.jpg
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/Duracell/Duracell-03.jpg
Well, to be honest, the battery was probably a counterfeit.

Mo
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:9V_innards_AAAA_removal-1.jpg
Note that a cell battery (LR8D425) is the same diameter as an LR61
cell, but is 3.5 mm longer.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
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Default Video showing heavy flour in AA batteries: any way for layman to test NiMH batteries?

On Sat, 26 Oct 2013 13:31:34 -0700 (PDT), Amanda Riphnykhazova
wrote:

Is there any way of testing them to make sure they are what they say
they are before leaving misleading positive feedback?


Yes. I use a West Mountain Radio CBA-II analyzer:
http://www.westmountainradio.com/product_info.php?products_id=cba4
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/NiMH/cba-II.jpg

An NiMH cell discharge graph will look something like this:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/NiMH/Duracelll-NiMH-2050.jpg
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/NiMH/Energizer-NiMH-2300.jpg
The 2300 ma-hr cell was only good for 2000 ma-hr. However, there's a
catch. I ran the test with a rather fast high current 1C discharge at
2.0 and 2.3 amps respectively. You'll get results closer to the
advertised capacity if you use C/10 discharge rate. However, if you
really want to impress your friends and accomplises, run it at C/100
discharge rate, and you'll get some really impressive capacity
numbers.

I also have a Philips TSU500 remote in which I use slightly pricey
Sanyo Eneloop batteries supposedly heavily quality controlled by
Costco before sale. They are now possibly as old as 6-8 months
and used to last a week or so before stopping working. Now they
can go from fully charged (2-3 days in a charger) to dead in 3 days.
Again, I am wondering if there is any way to test them before
I decide that they need replacing rather than that the TSU500
itself is chewing up batteries and needs replacing!


Eneloop are good batteries. There are competative low self-discharge
batteries that are just as good if you want to save money. The catch
is that Eneloop batteries do not like to be fast charged. Sanyo sells
a slow charger that works just fine.
http://www.eneloop.info/eneloop-products/faqs/faqs-chargers.html
Though it is possible to charge an eneloop battery in a "Quick
Charger", it is not recommended. We recommend charging eneloop
batteries in a NiMh charger that is 2 hours or more. Charging
eneloop batteries in a "Quick Charger" can reduce the overall
life of the battery.
My guess(tm) is that you used a fast charger, and killed the cells.

Also, note that there are different types of Eneloop cells:
1500 times rechargeable eneloop battery (2nd generation) has a dark
gray cover around the positive electrode and a crown logo on the
side. HR-3UTGA (AA) / HR-4UTGA (AAA).
1000 times rechargeable eneloop battery (1st generation) has a white
cover around the positive electrode and there isn't a crown logo on
the side. HR-3UTG (AA) / HR-4UTG (AAA).

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558


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Default Video showing heavy flour in AA batteries: any way for layman to test NiMH batteries?

In article ,
wrote:

On Sat, 26 Oct 2013 13:31:34 -0700 (PDT), Amanda Riphnykhazova
wrote:

I have a Panasonic DECT phone which takes AAA batteries. The ones I am
using are 2-3 years old and although they always measure OK on a simple
battery meter, give such pathetic call quality that I strongly suspect the
have very few amps indeed. (compared to how the phone used to work). When
left off the hook, the phone is dead within a day or so.

So I just bought on ebay some new NiMH ones called Rayzel (no reviews
available) with an ominously anonymous light green casing. They claim to be
2100 MAH to replace the present 650MAH ones. They say they come from a
place called Virginia but are scheduled to take 5 days to get a couple of
hundred miles to me by USPS.

Then I saw the video showing how these can apparently weigh as much as the
normal ones but be filled with flour or crack or something and in fact be
some poxy module a few millimeters in mass. Which, far from giving 2100Ma,
gives in reality only 66Ma and looks as if it may well last as long as five
minutes so long as no meaningful load is put on it.

Is there any way of testing them to make sure they are what they say they
are before leaving misleading positive feedback? I have no way of knowing
how long the phone which is designed to be left on the hook is supposed to
last when left off the hook. If I buy a very cheap battery tester, would it
have no cut out circuits and put a proper constant load on the battery such
that if left in place, the voltage may lower over the course of a few
minutes connection? (or does that only happen when the battery is actually
completely failing)

I also have a Philips TSU500 remote in which I use slightly pricey Sanyo
Eneloop batteries supposedly heavily quality controlled by Costco before
sale. They are now possibly as old as 6-8 months and used to last a week or
so before stopping working. Now they can go from fully charged (2-3 days in
a charger) to dead in 3 days. Again, I am wondering if there is any way to
test them before I decide that they need replacing rather than that the
TSU500 itself is chewing up batteries and needs replacing!

I wouldn't be surprised if the video is a practical joke. A friend of
mine sent me a link that showed that what is inside the large 6 volt
lantern batteries are just a whole bunch of AA batteries. I told him
that the video was crap. He didn't believe me and went out and bought
one of these batteries and pried the bottom off. Just like I told him
there were 4 large cells in the thing, not a whole bunch of AA cells.
He did call me to tell me I was right and say he felt pretty silly.


Originally, those 6 volt lantern batteries were made up of "G" cells
(same diameter as "D" but taller). More recently, I've come across some
that have "D" cells inside, and no marking on the outside to give a clue.

But here's one: If there are "G" cells inside, the thing will balance
over the middle when laid on the side, but if it has "D" cells, it'll be
bottom-heavy.

Isaac
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Default Video showing heavy flour in AA batteries: any way for layman to test NiMH batteries?

In article ,
Amanda Riphnykhazova wrote:

Thomas Distributing show that they distribute Eneloop NiMH batteries which I
wonder about in OP.

I did check with Panasonic and they say they recommend NiMH so I assume I
shouldnt be using NiCAD and cant recharge Lithium ones. So how far can I
push the milliamps realistically? And, again, is there any way of testing
whatever I do end up with please?

I suppose I can just charge them along with the present batteries and leave
them next to each other for a few days and see how long they last before they
die. But that says nothing about how long any batteries I get are going to
LAST?



Depends on how you use them. For the same chemistry, the only reasonable
way to increase the mA-Hr capacity is to put more electrode inside, and
that means using a thinner insulator between the plates. A thinner
insulator means a higher leakage, and so a faster self-discharge.

So the only way you're likely to actually *get* 2100 mA-Hr out of those
cells is if you use them a lot. If what you mostly do is let the device
sit around, the cells will be empty when you need them despite the
higher capacity.

As a personal example, when I used regular NiMH cells in a little camera
I carried around "just in case", it was nearly "empty" almost every time
I wanted to use it. And the spare cells I carried would be dead, too.
Changing to Eneloop cells, which had a lower mA-Hr capacity, gave me a
camera that was always ready to go, even after a couple or three months
of sitting around. And when the in-use cells finally did go empty, the
spares were still nearly full despite having been charged at the same
time.

Isaac
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Default Video showing heavy flour in AA batteries: any way for laymanto test NiMH batteries?

On 10/26/2013 02:14 PM, William Sommerwerck wrote:
Assuming this isn't a joke...


What ever happened to buying OEM batteries?


Al Dunlap


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Default Video showing heavy flour in AA batteries: any way for laymanto test NiMH batteries?

On 10/26/2013 04:49 PM, Amanda Riphnykhazova wrote:
Now I have seen a report that for cordless phones, you should use special low discharge batteries and that ordinary NiMH ones will just die if left off the base So i am not sure I can even perform the test I thought obvious! The low discharge ones say they are something over 900MAH.

There seem to be lots of sellers specifically targeting their sales towards Panasonic cordless phones. I wonder if there is any difference or if "low discharge" means anything (in practical terms)?

Self-discharge is what a battery does to lose charge while just sitting
there. A good LiIon loses about 10% of its charge quickly, then loses
very little going forward.
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Default Video showing heavy flour in AA batteries: any way for laymanto test NiMH batteries?

On 10/26/2013 08:00 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 27 Oct 2013 10:52:42 +1100, "Phil Allison"
wrote:

** Ever pried open a 9V alkaline battery?

There are six cells inside ( LR61s) smaller than AAAA.
... Phil


Sure. No problem. Just short the terminals and the internals will
rapidly be revealed:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/Duracell/Duracell-01.jpg
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/Duracell/Duracell-02.jpg
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/Duracell/Duracell-03.jpg
Well, to be honest, the battery was probably a counterfeit.

Mo
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:9V_innards_AAAA_removal-1.jpg
Note that a cell battery (LR8D425) is the same diameter as an LR61
cell, but is 3.5 mm longer.


My Sennheiser Pro rep told me they don't recommend using Duracell
because they don't put enough electrolyte in the cells. They now ship
with Energizer.


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Default Video showing heavy flour in AA batteries: any way for layman totest NiMH batteries?

WOW is this getting complicated!!!

So you cant just buy a battery and charge it? You have to differentiate between different types of NiMH charger or you will kill the battery? That is AMAZING!

Especially when Costco doesnt even sell chargers for their Eneloops (mine are either light or dark blue with no explanation of what is the difference) and makes no recommendations as to charging. Not to mention, how do I figure out how to charge (for example) a Reyzel without spending a fortune on the tester? Or is it generally OK to trickle charge any battery so long as you dont mind waiting?

So maybe I DO have to buy Panasonic rechargeables to work properly in a Panasonic phone, assuming there aren't fakes out there! Or possibly the trickle charge from the base may well do the trick?

Oh and one other thing, I am not a troll but just checked the charger I am actually using (and dont remember when I accidentally switched) but this one IS a NiCAD!!! So I assume the Eneloops are now dead for all practical purposes. Anyway I can now stop blaming the remote controller.

Can I buy some sort of aa/aaa trickle charger to do the job in future?
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Default Video showing heavy flour in AA batteries: any way for layman to test NiMH batteries?

On Sun, 27 Oct 2013 07:25:03 -0700 (PDT), Amanda Riphnykhazova
wrote:

WOW is this getting complicated!!!


Yep. It looks simpler if you try to understand how it all works.

So you cant just buy a battery and charge it?


Correct. Different chemistries want different types of charging
systems, charge rates, EoC (end of charge) detection methods, etc.
There's quite a bit of technology inside some chargers to guess what
flavor of battery their expected to charge, but at best, it's still a
guess.

You have to differentiate between different types of NiMH charger
or you will kill the battery? That is AMAZING!


Yep. That's about it.

Especially when Costco doesnt even sell chargers for their Eneloops
(mine are either light or dark blue with no explanation of what is
the difference) and makes no recommendations as to charging.


Costco isn't exactly a full service operation. If you don't like it,
or prematurely kill it for some reason, just take it back and kill
some more cells. Incidentally, the pack of Eneloop batteries I
purchased at Costco did include the proper charger.
http://costcocouple.com/sanyo-eneloop-rechargeable-battery-combo-pack/

Not to mention, how do I figure out how to charge (for example) a
Reyzel without spending a fortune on the tester?


If you can determine the chemistry of the Reyzel thing, you can then
determine if it will survive a fast charge, and select your battery
charger accordingly. I did some Googling and couldn't find anything
on a Reyzel battery.

Also, a discharge tester won't show you how to test the battery. It
will only show the capacity of the cell, assuming that you charged it
correctly.

Or is it generally OK to trickle charge any battery so long as you
dont mind waiting?


Well, the general idea is to:
1. Follow the manufacturers recommendations.
2. Don't overcharge
3. Don't overheat
The problem is knowing when to stop charging which implies that you
need to know the starting SoC. If you discharge a battery to some low
reference point, and calculate how many amp-hrs you'll need to get to
about 125% of full charge, you'll probably do ok with a C/10 charge.
For a 2000 ma-hr cell, C/10 would be a 200 ma charge current for about
12.5 hrs.

However, that's not going to happen in real life. The starting point
might be half charge or even 90% charge. If you apply a C/10 charge
for 12.5 hrs to one of those, you've overcharged the battery. Good
chargers have EoC (end of charge) detection circuits that look for a
tiny dip in voltage when the battery is fully charged. However, they
can be fooled by a variety of tricks, such as trying to charge a fully
charged battery.

In short, you're probably ok slow charging almost any NiMH battery, as
long as you don't overcharge or overheat.

So maybe I DO have to buy Panasonic rechargeables to work properly in a
Panasonic phone, assuming there aren't fakes out there!


I have several older Panasonic cordless phones that use AAA packs.
They've lasted perhaps 6 years per pack in continuous charge while the
handset is in the cradle. The trick they use is that they don't
charge to 100.0%. My guess(tm) is that they float charge to about 80%
of full charge, and stop (based on my measurements of the terminal
voltage). The charging systems seems to be designed for long battery
life, at the expense of talk time. That's quite the opposite of the
usual advertised battery claims, where maximum capacity and extremely
fast charge times, are the norm. With NiMH in a cordless phone, if
you don't fully charge, and you don't go through many charge/discharge
cycles, the batteries can last nearly forever.

Or possibly the trickle charge from the base may well do the trick?


Trickle charge (0.05C) does not work with NiMH because the charger
EoC detection mechanism doesn't work at such low levels and because
NiMH just hates to be overcharged:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_nickel_metal_hydride

Oh and one other thing, I am not a troll but just checked the charger
I am actually using (and dont remember when I accidentally switched)
but this one IS a NiCAD!!!


Hard to tell what you've done here. NiCd and NiMH chargers are
similar but not identical. If you were lucky and didn't overcharge
the NiMH cells, you're probably ok. If the batteries became warm or
hot during charging, they're probably dead.

So I assume the Eneloops are now dead for all practical purposes.
Anyway I can now stop blaming the remote controller.


A discharge test and graph would show if there's any life left.

Can I buy some sort of aa/aaa trickle charger to do the job in future?


For Eneloop, you could play it safe and get the Sanyo recommended
NC-MQR04 or NC-MQR06 charger. The NC-MQR06 is advertised as a "quick"
charger if you consider:
single AA 1.5 hrs
two AA 4.0 hrs
four AA 8.9 hrs
to be "quick".





--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
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Default Video showing heavy flour in AA batteries: any way for layman to test NiMH batteries?

I would recommend the MAHA MH-C9000 charger. It's no longer modestly priced,
but it does all sorts of stuff (such as breaking in and reconditioning), and
you can set the charge current as you wish.

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Default Video showing heavy flour in AA batteries: any way for layman to test NiMH batteries?

On Sun, 27 Oct 2013 09:34:29 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_nickel_metal_hydride


Mo
http://www.powerstream.com/NiMH.htm
Read section on "Overnight Charging". Note that this doesn't mean
leaving the battery on charge forever, just overnight.


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Default Video showing heavy flour in AA batteries: any way for layman totest NiMH batteries?

Well I have tended to leave the Eneloops in the NiCAD charger, thinking that it was a NiMH charger and that it had a cut out circuit in it. For days or weeks on end.

Clearly they are dead now and I would imagine I will find that they can look as if they are charging to full (or is it just a surface charge?) but in reality they will lose all their charge quickly now even if left out of the remote. And cant be reconditioned

No, they didn't come with any charger, which with no charge instructions was a bit of a mistake on the part of Costco?

Incidentally, what does battery recondition mean? Does it mean feeding a short burst of 120v reverse polarity to bust up crystals or is that a myth?
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