Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems.

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Default Dirty switchers ...

Has anyone seen any good write-ups on, or figured out for themselves, just
how the self-oscillating dirty - i.e. smoothing cap-less - switchers that
you find in use as lamp ballasts (or 'electronic transformers' that they
seem to be sometimes known as) work ?

I recently acquired a fairly sophisticated disco lighting fixture that has
such a supply to run the 24v 150 watt lamp. It seems to have two main
switching devices, which I suspect are FETs or IGBTs, but can't tell for
sure so far, as the numbers have been ground off them. On the mains side,
it
has a bridge but no filter cap, so dirty DC is applied directly to the
collector / drain of one of the devices. No sign of any control IC, but
there is a small vertical sub-pcb that has a few small transistors and
other
bits and bobs on it. It does have a preset pot on the main board, which
I'm
guessing sets the output voltage. There are lots of 1 and 2 watt resistors
scattered around, as well as quite a lot of diodes, but overall, the
topology is not one that I immediately recognise as being any type of
common
switcher. The output to the lamp is taken straight from the secondary side
transformer. No rectification or filtering.

Thus far, I've only quickly run an ESR meter over the small electros on
there, but nothing particularly bad looking amongst them. It just sits
there, pretty dead. Nothing exploding or smoking. Fuse intact. Nothing
obviously short on the 'power' side of things. Probably going to finish up
being an open polyester cap or some such, but it would be nice to
understand
a bit more, what kicks these designs off, and keeps them running.

Arfa





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Default Dirty switchers ...


"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...
Has anyone seen any good write-ups on, or figured out for themselves,
just
how the self-oscillating dirty - i.e. smoothing cap-less - switchers that
you find in use as lamp ballasts (or 'electronic transformers' that they
seem to be sometimes known as) work ?

I recently acquired a fairly sophisticated disco lighting fixture that
has
such a supply to run the 24v 150 watt lamp. It seems to have two main
switching devices, which I suspect are FETs or IGBTs, but can't tell for
sure so far, as the numbers have been ground off them. On the mains side,
it
has a bridge but no filter cap, so dirty DC is applied directly to the
collector / drain of one of the devices. No sign of any control IC, but
there is a small vertical sub-pcb that has a few small transistors and
other
bits and bobs on it. It does have a preset pot on the main board, which
I'm
guessing sets the output voltage. There are lots of 1 and 2 watt
resistors
scattered around, as well as quite a lot of diodes, but overall, the
topology is not one that I immediately recognise as being any type of
common
switcher. The output to the lamp is taken straight from the secondary
side
transformer. No rectification or filtering.

Thus far, I've only quickly run an ESR meter over the small electros on
there, but nothing particularly bad looking amongst them. It just sits
there, pretty dead. Nothing exploding or smoking. Fuse intact. Nothing
obviously short on the 'power' side of things. Probably going to finish
up
being an open polyester cap or some such, but it would be nice to
understand
a bit more, what kicks these designs off, and keeps them running.

Arfa


Can you put up some pictures somewhere? You should be able to dope out the
switch as a fet or IGBT with an ohm meter.

tm

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Default Dirty switchers ...

Arfa Daily wrote in message
...
Has anyone seen any good write-ups on, or figured out for themselves,

just
how the self-oscillating dirty - i.e. smoothing cap-less - switchers

that
you find in use as lamp ballasts (or 'electronic transformers' that they
seem to be sometimes known as) work ?

I recently acquired a fairly sophisticated disco lighting fixture that

has
such a supply to run the 24v 150 watt lamp. It seems to have two main
switching devices, which I suspect are FETs or IGBTs, but can't tell for
sure so far, as the numbers have been ground off them. On the mains

side,
it
has a bridge but no filter cap, so dirty DC is applied directly to the
collector / drain of one of the devices. No sign of any control IC, but
there is a small vertical sub-pcb that has a few small transistors and
other
bits and bobs on it. It does have a preset pot on the main board, which
I'm
guessing sets the output voltage. There are lots of 1 and 2 watt

resistors
scattered around, as well as quite a lot of diodes, but overall, the
topology is not one that I immediately recognise as being any type of
common
switcher. The output to the lamp is taken straight from the secondary

side
transformer. No rectification or filtering.

Thus far, I've only quickly run an ESR meter over the small electros on
there, but nothing particularly bad looking amongst them. It just sits
there, pretty dead. Nothing exploding or smoking. Fuse intact. Nothing
obviously short on the 'power' side of things. Probably going to finish

up
being an open polyester cap or some such, but it would be nice to
understand
a bit more, what kicks these designs off, and keeps them running.

Arfa






failed bleed resistor ?

CFL circuit similar ?
http://www.nxp.com/documents/applica...te/AN00048.pdf


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Default Dirty switchers ...

any opto-isolators with hold-off/control function?


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"N_Cook" wrote in message
...
any opto-isolators with hold-off/control function?




Nope, no optos. It does have a hold-off in that there is a separate little
supply in the fixture that powers the electronics and lamp-house fan. The
fan supply also drives a relay on the faulty board. This relay is in series
with the mains. I'm assuming that it prevents the lamp from coming on,
unless the fan supply is established - not that this would help of course,
if the fan itself had failed ... :-)

The relay is coming on, so this 'feature' is not associated with the current
problem.

Arfa



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"tm" wrote in message
...

"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...
Has anyone seen any good write-ups on, or figured out for themselves,
just
how the self-oscillating dirty - i.e. smoothing cap-less - switchers
that
you find in use as lamp ballasts (or 'electronic transformers' that they
seem to be sometimes known as) work ?

I recently acquired a fairly sophisticated disco lighting fixture that
has
such a supply to run the 24v 150 watt lamp. It seems to have two main
switching devices, which I suspect are FETs or IGBTs, but can't tell for
sure so far, as the numbers have been ground off them. On the mains
side, it
has a bridge but no filter cap, so dirty DC is applied directly to the
collector / drain of one of the devices. No sign of any control IC, but
there is a small vertical sub-pcb that has a few small transistors and
other
bits and bobs on it. It does have a preset pot on the main board, which
I'm
guessing sets the output voltage. There are lots of 1 and 2 watt
resistors
scattered around, as well as quite a lot of diodes, but overall, the
topology is not one that I immediately recognise as being any type of
common
switcher. The output to the lamp is taken straight from the secondary
side
transformer. No rectification or filtering.

Thus far, I've only quickly run an ESR meter over the small electros on
there, but nothing particularly bad looking amongst them. It just sits
there, pretty dead. Nothing exploding or smoking. Fuse intact. Nothing
obviously short on the 'power' side of things. Probably going to finish
up
being an open polyester cap or some such, but it would be nice to
understand
a bit more, what kicks these designs off, and keeps them running.

Arfa


Can you put up some pictures somewhere? You should be able to dope out the
switch as a fet or IGBT with an ohm meter.

tm

Truth to tell, there's not a lot to see. Nothing very remarkable about it at
all. It's about a half brick size, and looks much like any other typical
little switcher, except no primary or secondary-side filter electros.

I've done a bit more work on it this morning. I shoved it on a variac, and
hooked a 'scope up to it. Oddly, between about 60v and 160v (UK mains up to
240v), it works. It will drive a lamp, and support considerable current
demand. However, as you carry on up beyond 160v, you can watch the activity
around the switching devices progressively 'die', until it stops altogether,
so this is not going to be any kind of easy one ...

Arfa

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Default Dirty switchers ...

In sci.electronics.repair Arfa Daily wrote:
Has anyone seen any good write-ups on, or figured out for themselves, just
how the self-oscillating dirty - i.e. smoothing cap-less - switchers that
you find in use as lamp ballasts (or 'electronic transformers' that they
seem to be sometimes known as) work ?

I recently acquired a fairly sophisticated disco lighting fixture that has
such a supply to run the 24v 150 watt lamp. It seems to have two main
switching devices, which I suspect are FETs or IGBTs, but can't tell for
sure so far, as the numbers have been ground off them. On the mains side,


That's pretty high tech for a product from the 1970s to use a switching
power supply.



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"Cydrome Leader" wrote in message ...

That's pretty high tech for a product from the 1970s
to use a switching power supply.


My first color TV -- purchased in 1974 -- was a Sony KV-1920. It had a
switching supply.

I don't know which company was the first to make consumer products with
switching supplies -- but I wouldn't be surprised if it were Sony.


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In sci.electronics.repair William Sommerwerck wrote:
"Cydrome Leader" wrote in message ...

That's pretty high tech for a product from the 1970s
to use a switching power supply.


My first color TV -- purchased in 1974 -- was a Sony KV-1920. It had a
switching supply.


that is pretty advanced.

I don't know which company was the first to make consumer products with
switching supplies -- but I wouldn't be surprised if it were Sony.


It could be.

the oldest thing in the junk pile with a switcher I have is an apple ][
computer.

Of course they forgot to add a cooling fan or ventilation slots which
Franklin Computer got right in their Ace series of clones.

I want to know more about this 1970s disco lighting system.




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On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 20:24:30 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:

In sci.electronics.repair Arfa Daily wrote:
Has anyone seen any good write-ups on, or figured out for themselves, just
how the self-oscillating dirty - i.e. smoothing cap-less - switchers that
you find in use as lamp ballasts (or 'electronic transformers' that they
seem to be sometimes known as) work ?

I recently acquired a fairly sophisticated disco lighting fixture that has
such a supply to run the 24v 150 watt lamp. It seems to have two main
switching devices, which I suspect are FETs or IGBTs, but can't tell for
sure so far, as the numbers have been ground off them. On the mains side,


That's pretty high tech for a product from the 1970s to use a switching
power supply.


They weren't all that unknown in the '70s. Almost all of the large
supplies we used were either switching or phase controlled (the really
large ones). I only remember one linear supply above 1kW, and that
was a 4V 1000A HP that was used in a piece of test equipment. Big as
a refrigerator, it was.


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In sci.electronics.repair wrote:
On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 20:24:30 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:

In sci.electronics.repair Arfa Daily wrote:
Has anyone seen any good write-ups on, or figured out for themselves, just
how the self-oscillating dirty - i.e. smoothing cap-less - switchers that
you find in use as lamp ballasts (or 'electronic transformers' that they
seem to be sometimes known as) work ?

I recently acquired a fairly sophisticated disco lighting fixture that has
such a supply to run the 24v 150 watt lamp. It seems to have two main
switching devices, which I suspect are FETs or IGBTs, but can't tell for
sure so far, as the numbers have been ground off them. On the mains side,


That's pretty high tech for a product from the 1970s to use a switching
power supply.


They weren't all that unknown in the '70s. Almost all of the large
supplies we used were either switching or phase controlled (the really
large ones). I only remember one linear supply above 1kW, and that
was a 4V 1000A HP that was used in a piece of test equipment. Big as
a refrigerator, it was.


ha. that thing must have been about 12% efficient.

I saw some open frame "international" style linear power supply at a
surplus dealer marked Intel with the Intel logo that was rated tens of
amps at something like 1.8 or 2.2 volts.

It was one of those preposterious things with extruded heatsinks and the
bent aluminum chassis around all the TO-3 cans.

I've noticed "interntional" linear power supplies these days are complete
crap compared to the ones from yesteryear. Condor was still making
somewhat decent ones about 5 years ago complete with silkscreened
copyrights of 1990 on the PCB and case.



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"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
...
My first color TV -- purchased in 1974 -- was a Sony KV-1920. It had a
switching supply.

I don't know which company was the first to make consumer products with
switching supplies -- but I wouldn't be surprised if it were Sony.


They'd been doing it since before then -- I have the schematics in my
RC-26 Receiving Tube Manual which depict a color set with half wave
(yuck!) offline rectification. Goes right to the flyback, whence all the
other voltages are generated. No heavy transformer (and, probably, a few
months lifetime for the poor sweep tube!).

Tim

--
Deep Friar: a very philosophical monk.
Website: http://seventransistorlabs.com


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"Cydrome Leader" wrote in message
...
In sci.electronics.repair Arfa Daily wrote:
Has anyone seen any good write-ups on, or figured out for themselves,
just
how the self-oscillating dirty - i.e. smoothing cap-less - switchers
that
you find in use as lamp ballasts (or 'electronic transformers' that they
seem to be sometimes known as) work ?

I recently acquired a fairly sophisticated disco lighting fixture that
has
such a supply to run the 24v 150 watt lamp. It seems to have two main
switching devices, which I suspect are FETs or IGBTs, but can't tell for
sure so far, as the numbers have been ground off them. On the mains
side,


That's pretty high tech for a product from the 1970s to use a switching
power supply.



1970s ? Where did you get that from ? It's actually about 4 or 5 years old
at a guess ...

Arfa

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"Cydrome Leader" wrote in message
...
In sci.electronics.repair William Sommerwerck
wrote:
"Cydrome Leader" wrote in message ...

That's pretty high tech for a product from the 1970s
to use a switching power supply.


My first color TV -- purchased in 1974 -- was a Sony KV-1920. It had a
switching supply.


that is pretty advanced.

I don't know which company was the first to make consumer products with
switching supplies -- but I wouldn't be surprised if it were Sony.


It could be.

the oldest thing in the junk pile with a switcher I have is an apple ][
computer.

Of course they forgot to add a cooling fan or ventilation slots which
Franklin Computer got right in their Ace series of clones.

I want to know more about this 1970s disco lighting system.



Discos were not confined to the 1970s. They still run now. In fact I was out
on one handling the lighting and visualizations for a friend, just this last
Saturday night gone ...

Anyways, I've fixed the bloody thing now, and I have to say that it had me
fooled. The problem turned out to be a knackered lamp socket. Looking closer
at the specs, it's actually 250 watts not 150 as I first thought, so even
with the forced air cooling it has, the lamp house runs pretty damned hot,
and the lamp socket with it. Basically, the ballast is not a very good
design. It doesn't run at all with no load on it, and as the lampholder was
effectively open circuit, it indeed didn't run, which was the first way that
it fooled me. The second way was that not only does it not run with no load,
it only runs properly with the full designed load. So when I had it out on
the bench, and just had a couple of 50 watt 12 v halogen lamps in series as
a test load, it ran, but only until the mains input voltage got to 160 v on
my variac. Once it went past that, the switching activity progressively
died, until it stopped altogether again.

I had a replacement ceramic holder to hand, as I fix a fair few of these
lighting fixtures, so I grafted it in, and reconnected the lamp wiring to
the ballast. This time, it kicked up and ran the lamp at full intensity
without issue, so that's one to remember if I come across another of this
particular fixture type.

Arfa

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Default Dirty switchers ...

In sci.electronics.repair Arfa Daily wrote:


"Cydrome Leader" wrote in message
...
In sci.electronics.repair William Sommerwerck
wrote:
"Cydrome Leader" wrote in message ...

That's pretty high tech for a product from the 1970s
to use a switching power supply.

My first color TV -- purchased in 1974 -- was a Sony KV-1920. It had a
switching supply.


that is pretty advanced.

I don't know which company was the first to make consumer products with
switching supplies -- but I wouldn't be surprised if it were Sony.


It could be.

the oldest thing in the junk pile with a switcher I have is an apple ][
computer.

Of course they forgot to add a cooling fan or ventilation slots which
Franklin Computer got right in their Ace series of clones.

I want to know more about this 1970s disco lighting system.



Discos were not confined to the 1970s. They still run now. In fact I was out
on one handling the lighting and visualizations for a friend, just this last
Saturday night gone ...


ha, ****ing europeans- disco, puma tracksuits, techno and communistm.

Anyways, I've fixed the bloody thing now, and I have to say that it had me
fooled. The problem turned out to be a knackered lamp socket. Looking closer
at the specs, it's actually 250 watts not 150 as I first thought, so even
with the forced air cooling it has, the lamp house runs pretty damned hot,
and the lamp socket with it. Basically, the ballast is not a very good
design. It doesn't run at all with no load on it, and as the lampholder was
effectively open circuit, it indeed didn't run, which was the first way that
it fooled me. The second way was that not only does it not run with no load,
it only runs properly with the full designed load. So when I had it out on
the bench, and just had a couple of 50 watt 12 v halogen lamps in series as
a test load, it ran, but only until the mains input voltage got to 160 v on
my variac. Once it went past that, the switching activity progressively
died, until it stopped altogether again.


that is a pretty horrible power supply, but I guess it makes sense if
you're just running lights, and had to shave 1% off the product cost.

I had a replacement ceramic holder to hand, as I fix a fair few of these
lighting fixtures, so I grafted it in, and reconnected the lamp wiring to
the ballast. This time, it kicked up and ran the lamp at full intensity
without issue, so that's one to remember if I come across another of this
particular fixture type.

Arfa


It's always a toss up as to what will happen in the US with the typical 4
foot flourescent light holders that take 2 or 4 bulbs if one bulb dies,
since there's so many types of ballasts.

I just replace both bulbs at once and toss the leftover into any fixture
that takes just one lamp. You never know if the other lamp was trashed
after the first one died. Some ballasts will just run the heaters nonstop
on the last bulb. Some flicker one bulb, some die completely.


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Default Dirty switchers ...

In sci.electronics.repair Arfa Daily wrote:


"Cydrome Leader" wrote in message
...
In sci.electronics.repair Arfa Daily wrote:
Has anyone seen any good write-ups on, or figured out for themselves,
just
how the self-oscillating dirty - i.e. smoothing cap-less - switchers
that
you find in use as lamp ballasts (or 'electronic transformers' that they
seem to be sometimes known as) work ?

I recently acquired a fairly sophisticated disco lighting fixture that
has
such a supply to run the 24v 150 watt lamp. It seems to have two main
switching devices, which I suspect are FETs or IGBTs, but can't tell for
sure so far, as the numbers have been ground off them. On the mains
side,


That's pretty high tech for a product from the 1970s to use a switching
power supply.



1970s ? Where did you get that from ? It's actually about 4 or 5 years old
at a guess ...

Arfa


This one seemed to go over everyone's heads.

the joke (and sad truth) is disco never died in europe. All horrible
things last forever there.

the germans have some of the creapiest musicans that are still alive and
popular, like Fancy.


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Discos were not confined to the 1970s. They still run now. In fact I was
out
on one handling the lighting and visualizations for a friend, just this
last
Saturday night gone ...


ha, ****ing europeans- disco, puma tracksuits, techno and communistm.


You *do* have an odd view of what it's like here ! Mobile discos did indeed
originate in the 70s, but have continued un-interupted ever since. They are
used for dances, in pubs, for birthday parties, weddings - all sorts of
things. The one that I was working at on Saturday, was a charity gig raising
money for cancer research. The technology has moved on over the years. When
I was first involved in the 70s, it was a pair of modified phono decks, a
preamp with a cross fader if you were lucky, a power amp, and a couple of
home-made cabs with the biggest speakers you could afford. Light shows were
done using modified slide projectors, home made colour wheels, made on the
fly likwid lite slides, and light columns made with Philips Photoflood
lamps. The music side of things gave way to twin CD decks, and the lighting
moved on to custom made pattern projectors using sound control to drive
rotating mirrors and dichroic filters. The music side is now all handled on
computer with custom pro software that looks after playlists, cross-fading,
inserting requests and storing the entire library. My friend has close to
8000 tracks on his setup. Lighting is now very complex, employing DMX and
sound controlled projectors, most of which are LED based, DMX and sound
controlled laser effects units, and computer generated 'visualisations',
which are math based music-synced patterns, fed to a video projector.

Puma tracksuits ? You don't see too many of them any more, not even on the
chaviest chavs ... :-)

Techno ? Not really that big here any more. It came from America originally
anyway.

Communism ? Not too much of that in most of Europe any more, either.

Arfa

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"Cydrome Leader" wrote in message
...
In sci.electronics.repair Arfa Daily wrote:


"Cydrome Leader" wrote in message
...
In sci.electronics.repair Arfa Daily wrote:
Has anyone seen any good write-ups on, or figured out for themselves,
just
how the self-oscillating dirty - i.e. smoothing cap-less - switchers
that
you find in use as lamp ballasts (or 'electronic transformers' that
they
seem to be sometimes known as) work ?

I recently acquired a fairly sophisticated disco lighting fixture that
has
such a supply to run the 24v 150 watt lamp. It seems to have two main
switching devices, which I suspect are FETs or IGBTs, but can't tell
for
sure so far, as the numbers have been ground off them. On the mains
side,

That's pretty high tech for a product from the 1970s to use a switching
power supply.



1970s ? Where did you get that from ? It's actually about 4 or 5 years
old
at a guess ...

Arfa


This one seemed to go over everyone's heads.

the joke (and sad truth) is disco never died in europe. All horrible
things last forever there.



Clearly, you don't understand the difference between 'Disco' and *a* disco
.... See my other reply :-)



the germans have some of the creapiest musicans that are still alive and
popular, like Fancy.


Well, that's Germany for you. That's mainland Europe, which we in the uk,
aren't. Being an island, our culture is rather different from that of
mainland Europeans, although politicians both sides of that watery divide
seem to have trouble comprehending that. We have some of the best musicians
in the world, and most of the rest of the world follows our lead ...

Arfa

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Default Dirty switchers ...

In sci.electronics.repair Arfa Daily wrote:


"Cydrome Leader" wrote in message
...
In sci.electronics.repair Arfa Daily wrote:


"Cydrome Leader" wrote in message
...
In sci.electronics.repair Arfa Daily wrote:
Has anyone seen any good write-ups on, or figured out for themselves,
just
how the self-oscillating dirty - i.e. smoothing cap-less - switchers
that
you find in use as lamp ballasts (or 'electronic transformers' that
they
seem to be sometimes known as) work ?

I recently acquired a fairly sophisticated disco lighting fixture that
has
such a supply to run the 24v 150 watt lamp. It seems to have two main
switching devices, which I suspect are FETs or IGBTs, but can't tell
for
sure so far, as the numbers have been ground off them. On the mains
side,

That's pretty high tech for a product from the 1970s to use a switching
power supply.



1970s ? Where did you get that from ? It's actually about 4 or 5 years
old
at a guess ...

Arfa


This one seemed to go over everyone's heads.

the joke (and sad truth) is disco never died in europe. All horrible
things last forever there.



Clearly, you don't understand the difference between 'Disco' and *a* disco
... See my other reply :-)



the germans have some of the creapiest musicans that are still alive and
popular, like Fancy.


Well, that's Germany for you. That's mainland Europe, which we in the uk,
aren't. Being an island, our culture is rather different from that of
mainland Europeans, although politicians both sides of that watery divide
seem to have trouble comprehending that. We have some of the best musicians
in the world, and most of the rest of the world follows our lead ...


It is safe to say good music comes out of the UK on a regular basis.


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On Mon, 4 Mar 2013 23:36:09 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:

In sci.electronics.repair Arfa Daily wrote:


"Cydrome Leader" wrote in message
...
In sci.electronics.repair Arfa Daily wrote:


"Cydrome Leader" wrote in message
...
In sci.electronics.repair Arfa Daily wrote:
Has anyone seen any good write-ups on, or figured out for themselves,
just
how the self-oscillating dirty - i.e. smoothing cap-less - switchers
that
you find in use as lamp ballasts (or 'electronic transformers' that
they
seem to be sometimes known as) work ?

I recently acquired a fairly sophisticated disco lighting fixture that
has
such a supply to run the 24v 150 watt lamp. It seems to have two main
switching devices, which I suspect are FETs or IGBTs, but can't tell
for
sure so far, as the numbers have been ground off them. On the mains
side,

That's pretty high tech for a product from the 1970s to use a switching
power supply.



1970s ? Where did you get that from ? It's actually about 4 or 5 years
old
at a guess ...

Arfa

This one seemed to go over everyone's heads.

the joke (and sad truth) is disco never died in europe. All horrible
things last forever there.



Clearly, you don't understand the difference between 'Disco' and *a* disco
... See my other reply :-)



the germans have some of the creapiest musicans that are still alive and
popular, like Fancy.


Well, that's Germany for you. That's mainland Europe, which we in the uk,
aren't. Being an island, our culture is rather different from that of
mainland Europeans, although politicians both sides of that watery divide
seem to have trouble comprehending that. We have some of the best musicians
in the world, and most of the rest of the world follows our lead ...


It is safe to say good music comes out of the UK on a regular basis.

Bagpipes?


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wrote in message
...
On Mon, 4 Mar 2013 23:36:09 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:

In sci.electronics.repair Arfa Daily wrote:


"Cydrome Leader" wrote in message
...
In sci.electronics.repair Arfa Daily wrote:


"Cydrome Leader" wrote in message
...
In sci.electronics.repair Arfa Daily wrote:
Has anyone seen any good write-ups on, or figured out for
themselves,
just
how the self-oscillating dirty - i.e. smoothing cap-less -
switchers
that
you find in use as lamp ballasts (or 'electronic transformers' that
they
seem to be sometimes known as) work ?

I recently acquired a fairly sophisticated disco lighting fixture
that
has
such a supply to run the 24v 150 watt lamp. It seems to have two
main
switching devices, which I suspect are FETs or IGBTs, but can't
tell
for
sure so far, as the numbers have been ground off them. On the mains
side,

That's pretty high tech for a product from the 1970s to use a
switching
power supply.



1970s ? Where did you get that from ? It's actually about 4 or 5 years
old
at a guess ...

Arfa

This one seemed to go over everyone's heads.

the joke (and sad truth) is disco never died in europe. All horrible
things last forever there.


Clearly, you don't understand the difference between 'Disco' and *a*
disco
... See my other reply :-)



the germans have some of the creapiest musicans that are still alive
and
popular, like Fancy.


Well, that's Germany for you. That's mainland Europe, which we in the
uk,
aren't. Being an island, our culture is rather different from that of
mainland Europeans, although politicians both sides of that watery
divide
seem to have trouble comprehending that. We have some of the best
musicians
in the world, and most of the rest of the world follows our lead ...


It is safe to say good music comes out of the UK on a regular basis.

Bagpipes?


Ah, now that's a bit of a funny one. Predominantly of Scottish and Irish
origins. It's a bit of an acquired taste. Can be quite effective in certain
types of folk music, but also, can be a wailing dirge in 'native'
stand-alone mode. Can also be very 'stirring' when used for military marches
with drums, and of course, used by nations all over the place to bring the
new year in. And then there was Paul McCartney's "Mull of Kintyre", a lovely
song, but I was never 100% convinced that it was actually genuine pipes on
the recording, and not from a synthesizer, as it sounds slightly too
pitch-perfect ...

Arfa

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On Mon, 4 Mar 2013 23:36:09 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:


1970s ? Where did you get that from ? It's actually about 4 or 5 years
old
at a guess ...

Arfa

This one seemed to go over everyone's heads.

the joke (and sad truth) is disco never died in europe. All horrible
things last forever there.



Clearly, you don't understand the difference between 'Disco' and *a* disco
... See my other reply :-)



the germans have some of the creapiest musicans that are still alive and
popular, like Fancy.


Well, that's Germany for you. That's mainland Europe, which we in the uk,
aren't. Being an island, our culture is rather different from that of
mainland Europeans, although politicians both sides of that watery divide
seem to have trouble comprehending that. We have some of the best musicians
in the world, and most of the rest of the world follows our lead ...


It is safe to say good music comes out of the UK on a regular basis.

Sure, if you mean a decade or two every century or two.

?;-)
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Cydrome Leader wrote:

It is safe to say good music comes out of the UK on a regular basis.



I've never heard of a British Bluegrass band.
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"Michael A. Terrell" writes:

Cydrome Leader wrote:

It is safe to say good music comes out of the UK on a regular basis.



I've never heard of a British Bluegrass band.


So I guess you are an eclectic sort of person that likes both types of
music. Country *and* Western?

(to quote the blues brothers)

--

John Devereux
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The joke (and sad truth) is disco never died in Europe.
All horrible things last forever there.


I have zero interest in disco -- but I've always wondered why people dislike
it so much. It's supposed to be danced to, not listened to. Why would anyone
want to sit and listen to such fundamentally uninteresting music?



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John Devereux wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" writes:

Cydrome Leader wrote:

It is safe to say good music comes out of the UK on a regular basis.



I've never heard of a British Bluegrass band.


So I guess you are an eclectic sort of person that likes both types of
music. Country *and* Western?

(to quote the blues brothers)



That isn't Bluegrass. I like traditional country music, and
'Southern Gospel' music as well. I've owned & used waltz records, and
classical music but Bluegrass is my favorite.

What most people call 'music' these days, gives me migraines.

The "Blues Brothers" were a couple burnt out druggies.
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William Sommerwerck wrote:

The joke (and sad truth) is disco never died in Europe.
All horrible things last forever there.


I have zero interest in disco -- but I've always wondered why people dislike
it so much. It's supposed to be danced to, not listened to. Why would anyone
want to sit and listen to such fundamentally uninteresting music?



They dislike it because it is loud, repetitious noise, and listening
was often unavoidable just like 'Rap'.

I used to sell at a flea market on the weekends, and some ass would
set ut a boom box with a worn out tape of Cajun music and turn it up so
loud you couldn't talk to customers. Then he would scream, "Doncha al'
just love this ****?" Some people wouldn't listen to certain types of
'music' if it was their choice, and being forced to put up with it by
morons turns it into hatred.
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On Tue, 5 Mar 2013 05:06:31 -0800, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:

The joke (and sad truth) is disco never died in Europe.
All horrible things last forever there.


I have zero interest in disco -- but I've always wondered why people dislike
it so much. It's supposed to be danced to, not listened to. Why would anyone
want to sit and listen to such fundamentally uninteresting music?


Because it goes with leisure suits?
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"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
...
The joke (and sad truth) is disco never died in Europe.
All horrible things last forever there.


I have zero interest in disco -- but I've always wondered why people
dislike it so much. It's supposed to be danced to, not listened to. Why
would anyone want to sit and listen to such fundamentally uninteresting
music?


You as well ? I don't understand this. I am not talking about 'Disco' as in
a genre of music - in fact a whole lifestyle - which has long since faded
away. I am talking about 'a disco (theque)' as in a person or persons who
set up music and lighting equipment in a venue for the purposes of providing
the musical entertainment for a dance event, or a birthday, or a works
celebration, or a charity do, or whatever. The music played can be anything
from rock, pop, folk and yes - even 'disco'. Do you not have such travelling
music providers stateside ? Is this where the difficulty in understanding
what exactly I am talking about, is coming from ?

Arfa



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"josephkk" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 4 Mar 2013 23:36:09 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:


1970s ? Where did you get that from ? It's actually about 4 or 5 years
old
at a guess ...

Arfa

This one seemed to go over everyone's heads.

the joke (and sad truth) is disco never died in europe. All horrible
things last forever there.


Clearly, you don't understand the difference between 'Disco' and *a*
disco
... See my other reply :-)



the germans have some of the creapiest musicans that are still alive
and
popular, like Fancy.


Well, that's Germany for you. That's mainland Europe, which we in the
uk,
aren't. Being an island, our culture is rather different from that of
mainland Europeans, although politicians both sides of that watery
divide
seem to have trouble comprehending that. We have some of the best
musicians
in the world, and most of the rest of the world follows our lead ...


It is safe to say good music comes out of the UK on a regular basis.

Sure, if you mean a decade or two every century or two.

?;-)


Well, whatever. It is good enough for the rest of the world, including the
U.S. to follow along, a year or so behind ... :-)

Arfa

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"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
m...

Cydrome Leader wrote:

It is safe to say good music comes out of the UK on a regular basis.



I've never heard of a British Bluegrass band.


Oh, there are plenty about. There is even a British Bluegrass Music
Association ! :-)

Arfa

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On Tue, 5 Mar 2013 21:25:20 -0000, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:



"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
...
The joke (and sad truth) is disco never died in Europe.
All horrible things last forever there.


I have zero interest in disco -- but I've always wondered why people
dislike it so much. It's supposed to be danced to, not listened to. Why
would anyone want to sit and listen to such fundamentally uninteresting
music?


You as well ? I don't understand this. I am not talking about 'Disco' as in
a genre of music - in fact a whole lifestyle - which has long since faded
away. I am talking about 'a disco (theque)' as in a person or persons who
set up music and lighting equipment in a venue for the purposes of providing
the musical entertainment for a dance event, or a birthday, or a works
celebration, or a charity do, or whatever. The music played can be anything
from rock, pop, folk and yes - even 'disco'. Do you not have such travelling
music providers stateside ? Is this where the difficulty in understanding
what exactly I am talking about, is coming from ?


If they're not insisting that you pay or go (or listen), why whine?
Let them have their fun.
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In sci.electronics.repair Arfa Daily wrote:
I am talking about 'a disco (theque)' as in a person or persons who
set up music and lighting equipment in a venue for the purposes of
providing the musical entertainment for a dance event, or a birthday,
or a works celebration, or a charity do, or whatever.


In the US this is usually called a "mobile DJ" service. "Mobile"
because they come to your location with records, amps, speakers, etc.
DJ means "disk jockey" - a person who selects and plays recorded music.
People will say things like "We should hire a DJ for the party."

The DJ has usually brought amps and speakers and maybe some lights. He
(most common) or she (sometimes) used to bring a stack of (records|tapes|
CDs) and a (turntable|tape deck|CD player). Today the music comes from
a laptop or MP3 player, but everything else is the same.

By itself, "DJ" can also be the person that works at a radio station,
introducing songs and playing them. A "DJ" can also be the person in
a hip-hop group who plays records to back up the singer.

If you are talking about a building where people go to listen to
recorded music, dance, and probably drink alcohol, that's usually called
a "club" or maybe a "bar". It was called a "disco" in the 1970s but not
any longer.

As you have probably figured out, if you say "disco" in the US today,
people generally think of the late 1970s music style - "Saturday Night
Fever", etc.

Matt Roberds

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Arfa Daily wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
m...

Cydrome Leader wrote:

It is safe to say good music comes out of the UK on a regular basis.



I've never heard of a British Bluegrass band.


Oh, there are plenty about. There is even a British Bluegrass Music
Association ! :-)




I like my Bluegrass from Kentucky, where it all started.

I also like 'Bluegrass Underground' which is performed live in a
large natural cavern in Tennessee:

http://www.bluegrassunderground.com/ and can be hard at
www.wsmonline.com just before the Grand Old Opry.

(Bluegrass Underground airs every Sat night on the Legend, 650 WSM. The
station where Bluegrass was born is home to Bluegrass Underground every
Saturday night just before The Grand Ole Opry at 6pm EST.)


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wrote in message ...
In sci.electronics.repair Arfa Daily wrote:
I am talking about 'a disco (theque)' as in a person or persons who
set up music and lighting equipment in a venue for the purposes of
providing the musical entertainment for a dance event, or a birthday,
or a works celebration, or a charity do, or whatever.


In the US this is usually called a "mobile DJ" service. "Mobile"
because they come to your location with records, amps, speakers, etc.
DJ means "disk jockey" - a person who selects and plays recorded music.
People will say things like "We should hire a DJ for the party."

The DJ has usually brought amps and speakers and maybe some lights. He
(most common) or she (sometimes) used to bring a stack of (records|tapes|
CDs) and a (turntable|tape deck|CD player). Today the music comes from
a laptop or MP3 player, but everything else is the same.

By itself, "DJ" can also be the person that works at a radio station,
introducing songs and playing them. A "DJ" can also be the person in
a hip-hop group who plays records to back up the singer.

If you are talking about a building where people go to listen to
recorded music, dance, and probably drink alcohol, that's usually called
a "club" or maybe a "bar". It was called a "disco" in the 1970s but not
any longer.

As you have probably figured out, if you say "disco" in the US today,
people generally think of the late 1970s music style - "Saturday Night
Fever", etc.

Matt Roberds



OK. That makes sense then. Your 'mobile DJ service' is exactly the same as
our 'mobile disco'. It sounds as though lighting is not a significant
aspect, but would probably be known as DJ lighting, and the rest of the
stuff - amps, speakers, CD decks etc - as DJ equipment. Here, although those
terms are used, it's all better known as 'disco' equipment or 'disco'
lighting. Audio and lighting equipment for sale on eBay is usually described
as 'DJ' equipment. The guy I was out doing the lighting for last week, calls
his service "Occasions Disco". In the past, I have done light shows for
"Force 8 Disco" "Hot Wax Disco" and "Disco International", among others.
Back in the day, it was, as you say, all run from records and decks, or CDs
and dual CD decks. The one I was out with last week, was all run from a
laptop, although the physical lights were driven from a separate custom DMX
controller. Visualizations via a video projector, were from another laptop,
fed through a video mixer to allow a video camera on the revelers, to be
overlaid on the visualizations.

So, now that's all cleared up, we will all know that when I talk about a
disco, I'm referring to a mobile DJ service, and not the music genre /
lifestyle ... :-)

I thought I spoke pretty good American, having been there many times, and
having spent years on usenet talking to Americans, but this seems to be yet
another good example of two nations divided by a common language ...

Arfa

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In sci.electronics.repair wrote:
On Mon, 4 Mar 2013 23:36:09 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:

In sci.electronics.repair Arfa Daily wrote:


"Cydrome Leader" wrote in message
...
In sci.electronics.repair Arfa Daily wrote:


"Cydrome Leader" wrote in message
...
In sci.electronics.repair Arfa Daily wrote:
Has anyone seen any good write-ups on, or figured out for themselves,
just
how the self-oscillating dirty - i.e. smoothing cap-less - switchers
that
you find in use as lamp ballasts (or 'electronic transformers' that
they
seem to be sometimes known as) work ?

I recently acquired a fairly sophisticated disco lighting fixture that
has
such a supply to run the 24v 150 watt lamp. It seems to have two main
switching devices, which I suspect are FETs or IGBTs, but can't tell
for
sure so far, as the numbers have been ground off them. On the mains
side,

That's pretty high tech for a product from the 1970s to use a switching
power supply.



1970s ? Where did you get that from ? It's actually about 4 or 5 years
old
at a guess ...

Arfa

This one seemed to go over everyone's heads.

the joke (and sad truth) is disco never died in europe. All horrible
things last forever there.


Clearly, you don't understand the difference between 'Disco' and *a* disco
... See my other reply :-)



the germans have some of the creapiest musicans that are still alive and
popular, like Fancy.


Well, that's Germany for you. That's mainland Europe, which we in the uk,
aren't. Being an island, our culture is rather different from that of
mainland Europeans, although politicians both sides of that watery divide
seem to have trouble comprehending that. We have some of the best musicians
in the world, and most of the rest of the world follows our lead ...


It is safe to say good music comes out of the UK on a regular basis.

Bagpipes?


ugh, I hate the sound of bagpipes.



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Cydrome Leader wrote:

ugh, I hate the sound of bagpipes.



Then learn to play something else.
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On 6.3.13 6:24 , Cydrome Leader wrote:
In sci.electronics.repair wrote:
On Mon, 4 Mar 2013 23:36:09 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:

In sci.electronics.repair Arfa Daily wrote:


"Cydrome Leader" wrote in message
...
In sci.electronics.repair Arfa Daily wrote:


"Cydrome Leader" wrote in message
...
In sci.electronics.repair Arfa Daily wrote:
Has anyone seen any good write-ups on, or figured out for themselves,
just
how the self-oscillating dirty - i.e. smoothing cap-less - switchers
that
you find in use as lamp ballasts (or 'electronic transformers' that
they
seem to be sometimes known as) work ?

I recently acquired a fairly sophisticated disco lighting fixture that
has
such a supply to run the 24v 150 watt lamp. It seems to have two main
switching devices, which I suspect are FETs or IGBTs, but can't tell
for
sure so far, as the numbers have been ground off them. On the mains
side,

That's pretty high tech for a product from the 1970s to use a switching
power supply.



1970s ? Where did you get that from ? It's actually about 4 or 5 years
old
at a guess ...

Arfa

This one seemed to go over everyone's heads.

the joke (and sad truth) is disco never died in europe. All horrible
things last forever there.


Clearly, you don't understand the difference between 'Disco' and *a* disco
... See my other reply :-)



the germans have some of the creapiest musicans that are still alive and
popular, like Fancy.


Well, that's Germany for you. That's mainland Europe, which we in the uk,
aren't. Being an island, our culture is rather different from that of
mainland Europeans, although politicians both sides of that watery divide
seem to have trouble comprehending that. We have some of the best musicians
in the world, and most of the rest of the world follows our lead ...

It is safe to say good music comes out of the UK on a regular basis.

Bagpipes?


ugh, I hate the sound of bagpipes.


A bagpipe was invented as a military instrument to scare the enemy.

--

-T.


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Tauno Voipio wrote:

A bagpipe was invented as a military instrument to scare the enemy.



That's just a story made up by cowardly enemy soldiers.
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