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Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems. |
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#1
Posted to sci.electronics.repair,sci.electronics.design
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Dirty switchers ...
Has anyone seen any good write-ups on, or figured out for themselves, just
how the self-oscillating dirty - i.e. smoothing cap-less - switchers that you find in use as lamp ballasts (or 'electronic transformers' that they seem to be sometimes known as) work ? I recently acquired a fairly sophisticated disco lighting fixture that has such a supply to run the 24v 150 watt lamp. It seems to have two main switching devices, which I suspect are FETs or IGBTs, but can't tell for sure so far, as the numbers have been ground off them. On the mains side, it has a bridge but no filter cap, so dirty DC is applied directly to the collector / drain of one of the devices. No sign of any control IC, but there is a small vertical sub-pcb that has a few small transistors and other bits and bobs on it. It does have a preset pot on the main board, which I'm guessing sets the output voltage. There are lots of 1 and 2 watt resistors scattered around, as well as quite a lot of diodes, but overall, the topology is not one that I immediately recognise as being any type of common switcher. The output to the lamp is taken straight from the secondary side transformer. No rectification or filtering. Thus far, I've only quickly run an ESR meter over the small electros on there, but nothing particularly bad looking amongst them. It just sits there, pretty dead. Nothing exploding or smoking. Fuse intact. Nothing obviously short on the 'power' side of things. Probably going to finish up being an open polyester cap or some such, but it would be nice to understand a bit more, what kicks these designs off, and keeps them running. Arfa |
#2
Posted to sci.electronics.repair,sci.electronics.design
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Dirty switchers ...
"Arfa Daily" wrote in message ... Has anyone seen any good write-ups on, or figured out for themselves, just how the self-oscillating dirty - i.e. smoothing cap-less - switchers that you find in use as lamp ballasts (or 'electronic transformers' that they seem to be sometimes known as) work ? I recently acquired a fairly sophisticated disco lighting fixture that has such a supply to run the 24v 150 watt lamp. It seems to have two main switching devices, which I suspect are FETs or IGBTs, but can't tell for sure so far, as the numbers have been ground off them. On the mains side, it has a bridge but no filter cap, so dirty DC is applied directly to the collector / drain of one of the devices. No sign of any control IC, but there is a small vertical sub-pcb that has a few small transistors and other bits and bobs on it. It does have a preset pot on the main board, which I'm guessing sets the output voltage. There are lots of 1 and 2 watt resistors scattered around, as well as quite a lot of diodes, but overall, the topology is not one that I immediately recognise as being any type of common switcher. The output to the lamp is taken straight from the secondary side transformer. No rectification or filtering. Thus far, I've only quickly run an ESR meter over the small electros on there, but nothing particularly bad looking amongst them. It just sits there, pretty dead. Nothing exploding or smoking. Fuse intact. Nothing obviously short on the 'power' side of things. Probably going to finish up being an open polyester cap or some such, but it would be nice to understand a bit more, what kicks these designs off, and keeps them running. Arfa Can you put up some pictures somewhere? You should be able to dope out the switch as a fet or IGBT with an ohm meter. tm |
#3
Posted to sci.electronics.repair,sci.electronics.design
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Dirty switchers ...
Arfa Daily wrote in message
... Has anyone seen any good write-ups on, or figured out for themselves, just how the self-oscillating dirty - i.e. smoothing cap-less - switchers that you find in use as lamp ballasts (or 'electronic transformers' that they seem to be sometimes known as) work ? I recently acquired a fairly sophisticated disco lighting fixture that has such a supply to run the 24v 150 watt lamp. It seems to have two main switching devices, which I suspect are FETs or IGBTs, but can't tell for sure so far, as the numbers have been ground off them. On the mains side, it has a bridge but no filter cap, so dirty DC is applied directly to the collector / drain of one of the devices. No sign of any control IC, but there is a small vertical sub-pcb that has a few small transistors and other bits and bobs on it. It does have a preset pot on the main board, which I'm guessing sets the output voltage. There are lots of 1 and 2 watt resistors scattered around, as well as quite a lot of diodes, but overall, the topology is not one that I immediately recognise as being any type of common switcher. The output to the lamp is taken straight from the secondary side transformer. No rectification or filtering. Thus far, I've only quickly run an ESR meter over the small electros on there, but nothing particularly bad looking amongst them. It just sits there, pretty dead. Nothing exploding or smoking. Fuse intact. Nothing obviously short on the 'power' side of things. Probably going to finish up being an open polyester cap or some such, but it would be nice to understand a bit more, what kicks these designs off, and keeps them running. Arfa failed bleed resistor ? CFL circuit similar ? http://www.nxp.com/documents/applica...te/AN00048.pdf |
#4
Posted to sci.electronics.repair,sci.electronics.design
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Dirty switchers ...
any opto-isolators with hold-off/control function?
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#5
Posted to sci.electronics.repair,sci.electronics.design
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Dirty switchers ...
"N_Cook" wrote in message ... any opto-isolators with hold-off/control function? Nope, no optos. It does have a hold-off in that there is a separate little supply in the fixture that powers the electronics and lamp-house fan. The fan supply also drives a relay on the faulty board. This relay is in series with the mains. I'm assuming that it prevents the lamp from coming on, unless the fan supply is established - not that this would help of course, if the fan itself had failed ... :-) The relay is coming on, so this 'feature' is not associated with the current problem. Arfa |
#6
Posted to sci.electronics.repair,sci.electronics.design
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Dirty switchers ...
"tm" wrote in message ... "Arfa Daily" wrote in message ... Has anyone seen any good write-ups on, or figured out for themselves, just how the self-oscillating dirty - i.e. smoothing cap-less - switchers that you find in use as lamp ballasts (or 'electronic transformers' that they seem to be sometimes known as) work ? I recently acquired a fairly sophisticated disco lighting fixture that has such a supply to run the 24v 150 watt lamp. It seems to have two main switching devices, which I suspect are FETs or IGBTs, but can't tell for sure so far, as the numbers have been ground off them. On the mains side, it has a bridge but no filter cap, so dirty DC is applied directly to the collector / drain of one of the devices. No sign of any control IC, but there is a small vertical sub-pcb that has a few small transistors and other bits and bobs on it. It does have a preset pot on the main board, which I'm guessing sets the output voltage. There are lots of 1 and 2 watt resistors scattered around, as well as quite a lot of diodes, but overall, the topology is not one that I immediately recognise as being any type of common switcher. The output to the lamp is taken straight from the secondary side transformer. No rectification or filtering. Thus far, I've only quickly run an ESR meter over the small electros on there, but nothing particularly bad looking amongst them. It just sits there, pretty dead. Nothing exploding or smoking. Fuse intact. Nothing obviously short on the 'power' side of things. Probably going to finish up being an open polyester cap or some such, but it would be nice to understand a bit more, what kicks these designs off, and keeps them running. Arfa Can you put up some pictures somewhere? You should be able to dope out the switch as a fet or IGBT with an ohm meter. tm Truth to tell, there's not a lot to see. Nothing very remarkable about it at all. It's about a half brick size, and looks much like any other typical little switcher, except no primary or secondary-side filter electros. I've done a bit more work on it this morning. I shoved it on a variac, and hooked a 'scope up to it. Oddly, between about 60v and 160v (UK mains up to 240v), it works. It will drive a lamp, and support considerable current demand. However, as you carry on up beyond 160v, you can watch the activity around the switching devices progressively 'die', until it stops altogether, so this is not going to be any kind of easy one ... Arfa |
#7
Posted to sci.electronics.repair,sci.electronics.design
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Dirty switchers ...
In sci.electronics.repair Arfa Daily wrote:
Has anyone seen any good write-ups on, or figured out for themselves, just how the self-oscillating dirty - i.e. smoothing cap-less - switchers that you find in use as lamp ballasts (or 'electronic transformers' that they seem to be sometimes known as) work ? I recently acquired a fairly sophisticated disco lighting fixture that has such a supply to run the 24v 150 watt lamp. It seems to have two main switching devices, which I suspect are FETs or IGBTs, but can't tell for sure so far, as the numbers have been ground off them. On the mains side, That's pretty high tech for a product from the 1970s to use a switching power supply. |
#8
Posted to sci.electronics.repair,sci.electronics.design
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Dirty switchers ...
"Cydrome Leader" wrote in message ...
That's pretty high tech for a product from the 1970s to use a switching power supply. My first color TV -- purchased in 1974 -- was a Sony KV-1920. It had a switching supply. I don't know which company was the first to make consumer products with switching supplies -- but I wouldn't be surprised if it were Sony. |
#9
Posted to sci.electronics.repair,sci.electronics.design
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Dirty switchers ...
In sci.electronics.repair William Sommerwerck wrote:
"Cydrome Leader" wrote in message ... That's pretty high tech for a product from the 1970s to use a switching power supply. My first color TV -- purchased in 1974 -- was a Sony KV-1920. It had a switching supply. that is pretty advanced. I don't know which company was the first to make consumer products with switching supplies -- but I wouldn't be surprised if it were Sony. It could be. the oldest thing in the junk pile with a switcher I have is an apple ][ computer. Of course they forgot to add a cooling fan or ventilation slots which Franklin Computer got right in their Ace series of clones. I want to know more about this 1970s disco lighting system. |
#10
Posted to sci.electronics.repair,sci.electronics.design
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Dirty switchers ...
On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 20:24:30 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote: In sci.electronics.repair Arfa Daily wrote: Has anyone seen any good write-ups on, or figured out for themselves, just how the self-oscillating dirty - i.e. smoothing cap-less - switchers that you find in use as lamp ballasts (or 'electronic transformers' that they seem to be sometimes known as) work ? I recently acquired a fairly sophisticated disco lighting fixture that has such a supply to run the 24v 150 watt lamp. It seems to have two main switching devices, which I suspect are FETs or IGBTs, but can't tell for sure so far, as the numbers have been ground off them. On the mains side, That's pretty high tech for a product from the 1970s to use a switching power supply. They weren't all that unknown in the '70s. Almost all of the large supplies we used were either switching or phase controlled (the really large ones). I only remember one linear supply above 1kW, and that was a 4V 1000A HP that was used in a piece of test equipment. Big as a refrigerator, it was. |
#11
Posted to sci.electronics.repair,sci.electronics.design
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Dirty switchers ...
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#12
Posted to sci.electronics.repair,sci.electronics.design
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Dirty switchers ...
"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
... My first color TV -- purchased in 1974 -- was a Sony KV-1920. It had a switching supply. I don't know which company was the first to make consumer products with switching supplies -- but I wouldn't be surprised if it were Sony. They'd been doing it since before then -- I have the schematics in my RC-26 Receiving Tube Manual which depict a color set with half wave (yuck!) offline rectification. Goes right to the flyback, whence all the other voltages are generated. No heavy transformer (and, probably, a few months lifetime for the poor sweep tube!). Tim -- Deep Friar: a very philosophical monk. Website: http://seventransistorlabs.com |
#13
Posted to sci.electronics.repair,sci.electronics.design
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Dirty switchers ...
"Cydrome Leader" wrote in message ... In sci.electronics.repair Arfa Daily wrote: Has anyone seen any good write-ups on, or figured out for themselves, just how the self-oscillating dirty - i.e. smoothing cap-less - switchers that you find in use as lamp ballasts (or 'electronic transformers' that they seem to be sometimes known as) work ? I recently acquired a fairly sophisticated disco lighting fixture that has such a supply to run the 24v 150 watt lamp. It seems to have two main switching devices, which I suspect are FETs or IGBTs, but can't tell for sure so far, as the numbers have been ground off them. On the mains side, That's pretty high tech for a product from the 1970s to use a switching power supply. 1970s ? Where did you get that from ? It's actually about 4 or 5 years old at a guess ... Arfa |
#14
Posted to sci.electronics.repair,sci.electronics.design
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Dirty switchers ...
"Cydrome Leader" wrote in message ... In sci.electronics.repair William Sommerwerck wrote: "Cydrome Leader" wrote in message ... That's pretty high tech for a product from the 1970s to use a switching power supply. My first color TV -- purchased in 1974 -- was a Sony KV-1920. It had a switching supply. that is pretty advanced. I don't know which company was the first to make consumer products with switching supplies -- but I wouldn't be surprised if it were Sony. It could be. the oldest thing in the junk pile with a switcher I have is an apple ][ computer. Of course they forgot to add a cooling fan or ventilation slots which Franklin Computer got right in their Ace series of clones. I want to know more about this 1970s disco lighting system. Discos were not confined to the 1970s. They still run now. In fact I was out on one handling the lighting and visualizations for a friend, just this last Saturday night gone ... Anyways, I've fixed the bloody thing now, and I have to say that it had me fooled. The problem turned out to be a knackered lamp socket. Looking closer at the specs, it's actually 250 watts not 150 as I first thought, so even with the forced air cooling it has, the lamp house runs pretty damned hot, and the lamp socket with it. Basically, the ballast is not a very good design. It doesn't run at all with no load on it, and as the lampholder was effectively open circuit, it indeed didn't run, which was the first way that it fooled me. The second way was that not only does it not run with no load, it only runs properly with the full designed load. So when I had it out on the bench, and just had a couple of 50 watt 12 v halogen lamps in series as a test load, it ran, but only until the mains input voltage got to 160 v on my variac. Once it went past that, the switching activity progressively died, until it stopped altogether again. I had a replacement ceramic holder to hand, as I fix a fair few of these lighting fixtures, so I grafted it in, and reconnected the lamp wiring to the ballast. This time, it kicked up and ran the lamp at full intensity without issue, so that's one to remember if I come across another of this particular fixture type. Arfa |
#15
Posted to sci.electronics.repair,sci.electronics.design
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Dirty switchers ...
In sci.electronics.repair Arfa Daily wrote:
"Cydrome Leader" wrote in message ... In sci.electronics.repair William Sommerwerck wrote: "Cydrome Leader" wrote in message ... That's pretty high tech for a product from the 1970s to use a switching power supply. My first color TV -- purchased in 1974 -- was a Sony KV-1920. It had a switching supply. that is pretty advanced. I don't know which company was the first to make consumer products with switching supplies -- but I wouldn't be surprised if it were Sony. It could be. the oldest thing in the junk pile with a switcher I have is an apple ][ computer. Of course they forgot to add a cooling fan or ventilation slots which Franklin Computer got right in their Ace series of clones. I want to know more about this 1970s disco lighting system. Discos were not confined to the 1970s. They still run now. In fact I was out on one handling the lighting and visualizations for a friend, just this last Saturday night gone ... ha, ****ing europeans- disco, puma tracksuits, techno and communistm. Anyways, I've fixed the bloody thing now, and I have to say that it had me fooled. The problem turned out to be a knackered lamp socket. Looking closer at the specs, it's actually 250 watts not 150 as I first thought, so even with the forced air cooling it has, the lamp house runs pretty damned hot, and the lamp socket with it. Basically, the ballast is not a very good design. It doesn't run at all with no load on it, and as the lampholder was effectively open circuit, it indeed didn't run, which was the first way that it fooled me. The second way was that not only does it not run with no load, it only runs properly with the full designed load. So when I had it out on the bench, and just had a couple of 50 watt 12 v halogen lamps in series as a test load, it ran, but only until the mains input voltage got to 160 v on my variac. Once it went past that, the switching activity progressively died, until it stopped altogether again. that is a pretty horrible power supply, but I guess it makes sense if you're just running lights, and had to shave 1% off the product cost. I had a replacement ceramic holder to hand, as I fix a fair few of these lighting fixtures, so I grafted it in, and reconnected the lamp wiring to the ballast. This time, it kicked up and ran the lamp at full intensity without issue, so that's one to remember if I come across another of this particular fixture type. Arfa It's always a toss up as to what will happen in the US with the typical 4 foot flourescent light holders that take 2 or 4 bulbs if one bulb dies, since there's so many types of ballasts. I just replace both bulbs at once and toss the leftover into any fixture that takes just one lamp. You never know if the other lamp was trashed after the first one died. Some ballasts will just run the heaters nonstop on the last bulb. Some flicker one bulb, some die completely. |
#16
Posted to sci.electronics.repair,sci.electronics.design
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Dirty switchers ...
In sci.electronics.repair Arfa Daily wrote:
"Cydrome Leader" wrote in message ... In sci.electronics.repair Arfa Daily wrote: Has anyone seen any good write-ups on, or figured out for themselves, just how the self-oscillating dirty - i.e. smoothing cap-less - switchers that you find in use as lamp ballasts (or 'electronic transformers' that they seem to be sometimes known as) work ? I recently acquired a fairly sophisticated disco lighting fixture that has such a supply to run the 24v 150 watt lamp. It seems to have two main switching devices, which I suspect are FETs or IGBTs, but can't tell for sure so far, as the numbers have been ground off them. On the mains side, That's pretty high tech for a product from the 1970s to use a switching power supply. 1970s ? Where did you get that from ? It's actually about 4 or 5 years old at a guess ... Arfa This one seemed to go over everyone's heads. the joke (and sad truth) is disco never died in europe. All horrible things last forever there. the germans have some of the creapiest musicans that are still alive and popular, like Fancy. |
#17
Posted to sci.electronics.repair,sci.electronics.design
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Dirty switchers ...
Discos were not confined to the 1970s. They still run now. In fact I was out on one handling the lighting and visualizations for a friend, just this last Saturday night gone ... ha, ****ing europeans- disco, puma tracksuits, techno and communistm. You *do* have an odd view of what it's like here ! Mobile discos did indeed originate in the 70s, but have continued un-interupted ever since. They are used for dances, in pubs, for birthday parties, weddings - all sorts of things. The one that I was working at on Saturday, was a charity gig raising money for cancer research. The technology has moved on over the years. When I was first involved in the 70s, it was a pair of modified phono decks, a preamp with a cross fader if you were lucky, a power amp, and a couple of home-made cabs with the biggest speakers you could afford. Light shows were done using modified slide projectors, home made colour wheels, made on the fly likwid lite slides, and light columns made with Philips Photoflood lamps. The music side of things gave way to twin CD decks, and the lighting moved on to custom made pattern projectors using sound control to drive rotating mirrors and dichroic filters. The music side is now all handled on computer with custom pro software that looks after playlists, cross-fading, inserting requests and storing the entire library. My friend has close to 8000 tracks on his setup. Lighting is now very complex, employing DMX and sound controlled projectors, most of which are LED based, DMX and sound controlled laser effects units, and computer generated 'visualisations', which are math based music-synced patterns, fed to a video projector. Puma tracksuits ? You don't see too many of them any more, not even on the chaviest chavs ... :-) Techno ? Not really that big here any more. It came from America originally anyway. Communism ? Not too much of that in most of Europe any more, either. Arfa |
#18
Posted to sci.electronics.repair,sci.electronics.design
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Dirty switchers ...
"Cydrome Leader" wrote in message ... In sci.electronics.repair Arfa Daily wrote: "Cydrome Leader" wrote in message ... In sci.electronics.repair Arfa Daily wrote: Has anyone seen any good write-ups on, or figured out for themselves, just how the self-oscillating dirty - i.e. smoothing cap-less - switchers that you find in use as lamp ballasts (or 'electronic transformers' that they seem to be sometimes known as) work ? I recently acquired a fairly sophisticated disco lighting fixture that has such a supply to run the 24v 150 watt lamp. It seems to have two main switching devices, which I suspect are FETs or IGBTs, but can't tell for sure so far, as the numbers have been ground off them. On the mains side, That's pretty high tech for a product from the 1970s to use a switching power supply. 1970s ? Where did you get that from ? It's actually about 4 or 5 years old at a guess ... Arfa This one seemed to go over everyone's heads. the joke (and sad truth) is disco never died in europe. All horrible things last forever there. Clearly, you don't understand the difference between 'Disco' and *a* disco .... See my other reply :-) the germans have some of the creapiest musicans that are still alive and popular, like Fancy. Well, that's Germany for you. That's mainland Europe, which we in the uk, aren't. Being an island, our culture is rather different from that of mainland Europeans, although politicians both sides of that watery divide seem to have trouble comprehending that. We have some of the best musicians in the world, and most of the rest of the world follows our lead ... Arfa |
#19
Posted to sci.electronics.repair,sci.electronics.design
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Dirty switchers ...
In sci.electronics.repair Arfa Daily wrote:
"Cydrome Leader" wrote in message ... In sci.electronics.repair Arfa Daily wrote: "Cydrome Leader" wrote in message ... In sci.electronics.repair Arfa Daily wrote: Has anyone seen any good write-ups on, or figured out for themselves, just how the self-oscillating dirty - i.e. smoothing cap-less - switchers that you find in use as lamp ballasts (or 'electronic transformers' that they seem to be sometimes known as) work ? I recently acquired a fairly sophisticated disco lighting fixture that has such a supply to run the 24v 150 watt lamp. It seems to have two main switching devices, which I suspect are FETs or IGBTs, but can't tell for sure so far, as the numbers have been ground off them. On the mains side, That's pretty high tech for a product from the 1970s to use a switching power supply. 1970s ? Where did you get that from ? It's actually about 4 or 5 years old at a guess ... Arfa This one seemed to go over everyone's heads. the joke (and sad truth) is disco never died in europe. All horrible things last forever there. Clearly, you don't understand the difference between 'Disco' and *a* disco ... See my other reply :-) the germans have some of the creapiest musicans that are still alive and popular, like Fancy. Well, that's Germany for you. That's mainland Europe, which we in the uk, aren't. Being an island, our culture is rather different from that of mainland Europeans, although politicians both sides of that watery divide seem to have trouble comprehending that. We have some of the best musicians in the world, and most of the rest of the world follows our lead ... It is safe to say good music comes out of the UK on a regular basis. |
#20
Posted to sci.electronics.repair,sci.electronics.design
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Dirty switchers ...
On Mon, 4 Mar 2013 23:36:09 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote: In sci.electronics.repair Arfa Daily wrote: "Cydrome Leader" wrote in message ... In sci.electronics.repair Arfa Daily wrote: "Cydrome Leader" wrote in message ... In sci.electronics.repair Arfa Daily wrote: Has anyone seen any good write-ups on, or figured out for themselves, just how the self-oscillating dirty - i.e. smoothing cap-less - switchers that you find in use as lamp ballasts (or 'electronic transformers' that they seem to be sometimes known as) work ? I recently acquired a fairly sophisticated disco lighting fixture that has such a supply to run the 24v 150 watt lamp. It seems to have two main switching devices, which I suspect are FETs or IGBTs, but can't tell for sure so far, as the numbers have been ground off them. On the mains side, That's pretty high tech for a product from the 1970s to use a switching power supply. 1970s ? Where did you get that from ? It's actually about 4 or 5 years old at a guess ... Arfa This one seemed to go over everyone's heads. the joke (and sad truth) is disco never died in europe. All horrible things last forever there. Clearly, you don't understand the difference between 'Disco' and *a* disco ... See my other reply :-) the germans have some of the creapiest musicans that are still alive and popular, like Fancy. Well, that's Germany for you. That's mainland Europe, which we in the uk, aren't. Being an island, our culture is rather different from that of mainland Europeans, although politicians both sides of that watery divide seem to have trouble comprehending that. We have some of the best musicians in the world, and most of the rest of the world follows our lead ... It is safe to say good music comes out of the UK on a regular basis. Bagpipes? |
#21
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Dirty switchers ...
wrote in message ... On Mon, 4 Mar 2013 23:36:09 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader wrote: In sci.electronics.repair Arfa Daily wrote: "Cydrome Leader" wrote in message ... In sci.electronics.repair Arfa Daily wrote: "Cydrome Leader" wrote in message ... In sci.electronics.repair Arfa Daily wrote: Has anyone seen any good write-ups on, or figured out for themselves, just how the self-oscillating dirty - i.e. smoothing cap-less - switchers that you find in use as lamp ballasts (or 'electronic transformers' that they seem to be sometimes known as) work ? I recently acquired a fairly sophisticated disco lighting fixture that has such a supply to run the 24v 150 watt lamp. It seems to have two main switching devices, which I suspect are FETs or IGBTs, but can't tell for sure so far, as the numbers have been ground off them. On the mains side, That's pretty high tech for a product from the 1970s to use a switching power supply. 1970s ? Where did you get that from ? It's actually about 4 or 5 years old at a guess ... Arfa This one seemed to go over everyone's heads. the joke (and sad truth) is disco never died in europe. All horrible things last forever there. Clearly, you don't understand the difference between 'Disco' and *a* disco ... See my other reply :-) the germans have some of the creapiest musicans that are still alive and popular, like Fancy. Well, that's Germany for you. That's mainland Europe, which we in the uk, aren't. Being an island, our culture is rather different from that of mainland Europeans, although politicians both sides of that watery divide seem to have trouble comprehending that. We have some of the best musicians in the world, and most of the rest of the world follows our lead ... It is safe to say good music comes out of the UK on a regular basis. Bagpipes? Ah, now that's a bit of a funny one. Predominantly of Scottish and Irish origins. It's a bit of an acquired taste. Can be quite effective in certain types of folk music, but also, can be a wailing dirge in 'native' stand-alone mode. Can also be very 'stirring' when used for military marches with drums, and of course, used by nations all over the place to bring the new year in. And then there was Paul McCartney's "Mull of Kintyre", a lovely song, but I was never 100% convinced that it was actually genuine pipes on the recording, and not from a synthesizer, as it sounds slightly too pitch-perfect ... Arfa |
#22
Posted to sci.electronics.repair,sci.electronics.design
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Dirty switchers ...
On Mon, 4 Mar 2013 23:36:09 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote: 1970s ? Where did you get that from ? It's actually about 4 or 5 years old at a guess ... Arfa This one seemed to go over everyone's heads. the joke (and sad truth) is disco never died in europe. All horrible things last forever there. Clearly, you don't understand the difference between 'Disco' and *a* disco ... See my other reply :-) the germans have some of the creapiest musicans that are still alive and popular, like Fancy. Well, that's Germany for you. That's mainland Europe, which we in the uk, aren't. Being an island, our culture is rather different from that of mainland Europeans, although politicians both sides of that watery divide seem to have trouble comprehending that. We have some of the best musicians in the world, and most of the rest of the world follows our lead ... It is safe to say good music comes out of the UK on a regular basis. Sure, if you mean a decade or two every century or two. ?;-) |
#23
Posted to sci.electronics.repair,sci.electronics.design
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Dirty switchers ...
Cydrome Leader wrote: It is safe to say good music comes out of the UK on a regular basis. I've never heard of a British Bluegrass band. |
#24
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Dirty switchers ...
"Michael A. Terrell" writes:
Cydrome Leader wrote: It is safe to say good music comes out of the UK on a regular basis. I've never heard of a British Bluegrass band. So I guess you are an eclectic sort of person that likes both types of music. Country *and* Western? (to quote the blues brothers) -- John Devereux |
#25
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The joke (and sad truth) is disco never died in Europe.
All horrible things last forever there. I have zero interest in disco -- but I've always wondered why people dislike it so much. It's supposed to be danced to, not listened to. Why would anyone want to sit and listen to such fundamentally uninteresting music? |
#26
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John Devereux wrote: "Michael A. Terrell" writes: Cydrome Leader wrote: It is safe to say good music comes out of the UK on a regular basis. I've never heard of a British Bluegrass band. So I guess you are an eclectic sort of person that likes both types of music. Country *and* Western? (to quote the blues brothers) That isn't Bluegrass. I like traditional country music, and 'Southern Gospel' music as well. I've owned & used waltz records, and classical music but Bluegrass is my favorite. What most people call 'music' these days, gives me migraines. The "Blues Brothers" were a couple burnt out druggies. |
#27
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William Sommerwerck wrote: The joke (and sad truth) is disco never died in Europe. All horrible things last forever there. I have zero interest in disco -- but I've always wondered why people dislike it so much. It's supposed to be danced to, not listened to. Why would anyone want to sit and listen to such fundamentally uninteresting music? They dislike it because it is loud, repetitious noise, and listening was often unavoidable just like 'Rap'. I used to sell at a flea market on the weekends, and some ass would set ut a boom box with a worn out tape of Cajun music and turn it up so loud you couldn't talk to customers. Then he would scream, "Doncha al' just love this ****?" Some people wouldn't listen to certain types of 'music' if it was their choice, and being forced to put up with it by morons turns it into hatred. |
#28
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On Tue, 5 Mar 2013 05:06:31 -0800, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote: The joke (and sad truth) is disco never died in Europe. All horrible things last forever there. I have zero interest in disco -- but I've always wondered why people dislike it so much. It's supposed to be danced to, not listened to. Why would anyone want to sit and listen to such fundamentally uninteresting music? Because it goes with leisure suits? |
#29
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#30
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"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message ... The joke (and sad truth) is disco never died in Europe. All horrible things last forever there. I have zero interest in disco -- but I've always wondered why people dislike it so much. It's supposed to be danced to, not listened to. Why would anyone want to sit and listen to such fundamentally uninteresting music? You as well ? I don't understand this. I am not talking about 'Disco' as in a genre of music - in fact a whole lifestyle - which has long since faded away. I am talking about 'a disco (theque)' as in a person or persons who set up music and lighting equipment in a venue for the purposes of providing the musical entertainment for a dance event, or a birthday, or a works celebration, or a charity do, or whatever. The music played can be anything from rock, pop, folk and yes - even 'disco'. Do you not have such travelling music providers stateside ? Is this where the difficulty in understanding what exactly I am talking about, is coming from ? Arfa |
#31
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"josephkk" wrote in message ... On Mon, 4 Mar 2013 23:36:09 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader wrote: 1970s ? Where did you get that from ? It's actually about 4 or 5 years old at a guess ... Arfa This one seemed to go over everyone's heads. the joke (and sad truth) is disco never died in europe. All horrible things last forever there. Clearly, you don't understand the difference between 'Disco' and *a* disco ... See my other reply :-) the germans have some of the creapiest musicans that are still alive and popular, like Fancy. Well, that's Germany for you. That's mainland Europe, which we in the uk, aren't. Being an island, our culture is rather different from that of mainland Europeans, although politicians both sides of that watery divide seem to have trouble comprehending that. We have some of the best musicians in the world, and most of the rest of the world follows our lead ... It is safe to say good music comes out of the UK on a regular basis. Sure, if you mean a decade or two every century or two. ?;-) Well, whatever. It is good enough for the rest of the world, including the U.S. to follow along, a year or so behind ... :-) Arfa |
#32
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"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message m... Cydrome Leader wrote: It is safe to say good music comes out of the UK on a regular basis. I've never heard of a British Bluegrass band. Oh, there are plenty about. There is even a British Bluegrass Music Association ! :-) Arfa |
#33
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On Tue, 5 Mar 2013 21:25:20 -0000, "Arfa Daily"
wrote: "William Sommerwerck" wrote in message ... The joke (and sad truth) is disco never died in Europe. All horrible things last forever there. I have zero interest in disco -- but I've always wondered why people dislike it so much. It's supposed to be danced to, not listened to. Why would anyone want to sit and listen to such fundamentally uninteresting music? You as well ? I don't understand this. I am not talking about 'Disco' as in a genre of music - in fact a whole lifestyle - which has long since faded away. I am talking about 'a disco (theque)' as in a person or persons who set up music and lighting equipment in a venue for the purposes of providing the musical entertainment for a dance event, or a birthday, or a works celebration, or a charity do, or whatever. The music played can be anything from rock, pop, folk and yes - even 'disco'. Do you not have such travelling music providers stateside ? Is this where the difficulty in understanding what exactly I am talking about, is coming from ? If they're not insisting that you pay or go (or listen), why whine? Let them have their fun. |
#34
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In sci.electronics.repair Arfa Daily wrote:
I am talking about 'a disco (theque)' as in a person or persons who set up music and lighting equipment in a venue for the purposes of providing the musical entertainment for a dance event, or a birthday, or a works celebration, or a charity do, or whatever. In the US this is usually called a "mobile DJ" service. "Mobile" because they come to your location with records, amps, speakers, etc. DJ means "disk jockey" - a person who selects and plays recorded music. People will say things like "We should hire a DJ for the party." The DJ has usually brought amps and speakers and maybe some lights. He (most common) or she (sometimes) used to bring a stack of (records|tapes| CDs) and a (turntable|tape deck|CD player). Today the music comes from a laptop or MP3 player, but everything else is the same. By itself, "DJ" can also be the person that works at a radio station, introducing songs and playing them. A "DJ" can also be the person in a hip-hop group who plays records to back up the singer. If you are talking about a building where people go to listen to recorded music, dance, and probably drink alcohol, that's usually called a "club" or maybe a "bar". It was called a "disco" in the 1970s but not any longer. As you have probably figured out, if you say "disco" in the US today, people generally think of the late 1970s music style - "Saturday Night Fever", etc. Matt Roberds |
#35
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Arfa Daily wrote: "Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message m... Cydrome Leader wrote: It is safe to say good music comes out of the UK on a regular basis. I've never heard of a British Bluegrass band. Oh, there are plenty about. There is even a British Bluegrass Music Association ! :-) I like my Bluegrass from Kentucky, where it all started. I also like 'Bluegrass Underground' which is performed live in a large natural cavern in Tennessee: http://www.bluegrassunderground.com/ and can be hard at www.wsmonline.com just before the Grand Old Opry. (Bluegrass Underground airs every Sat night on the Legend, 650 WSM. The station where Bluegrass was born is home to Bluegrass Underground every Saturday night just before The Grand Ole Opry at 6pm EST.) |
#36
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wrote in message ... In sci.electronics.repair Arfa Daily wrote: I am talking about 'a disco (theque)' as in a person or persons who set up music and lighting equipment in a venue for the purposes of providing the musical entertainment for a dance event, or a birthday, or a works celebration, or a charity do, or whatever. In the US this is usually called a "mobile DJ" service. "Mobile" because they come to your location with records, amps, speakers, etc. DJ means "disk jockey" - a person who selects and plays recorded music. People will say things like "We should hire a DJ for the party." The DJ has usually brought amps and speakers and maybe some lights. He (most common) or she (sometimes) used to bring a stack of (records|tapes| CDs) and a (turntable|tape deck|CD player). Today the music comes from a laptop or MP3 player, but everything else is the same. By itself, "DJ" can also be the person that works at a radio station, introducing songs and playing them. A "DJ" can also be the person in a hip-hop group who plays records to back up the singer. If you are talking about a building where people go to listen to recorded music, dance, and probably drink alcohol, that's usually called a "club" or maybe a "bar". It was called a "disco" in the 1970s but not any longer. As you have probably figured out, if you say "disco" in the US today, people generally think of the late 1970s music style - "Saturday Night Fever", etc. Matt Roberds OK. That makes sense then. Your 'mobile DJ service' is exactly the same as our 'mobile disco'. It sounds as though lighting is not a significant aspect, but would probably be known as DJ lighting, and the rest of the stuff - amps, speakers, CD decks etc - as DJ equipment. Here, although those terms are used, it's all better known as 'disco' equipment or 'disco' lighting. Audio and lighting equipment for sale on eBay is usually described as 'DJ' equipment. The guy I was out doing the lighting for last week, calls his service "Occasions Disco". In the past, I have done light shows for "Force 8 Disco" "Hot Wax Disco" and "Disco International", among others. Back in the day, it was, as you say, all run from records and decks, or CDs and dual CD decks. The one I was out with last week, was all run from a laptop, although the physical lights were driven from a separate custom DMX controller. Visualizations via a video projector, were from another laptop, fed through a video mixer to allow a video camera on the revelers, to be overlaid on the visualizations. So, now that's all cleared up, we will all know that when I talk about a disco, I'm referring to a mobile DJ service, and not the music genre / lifestyle ... :-) I thought I spoke pretty good American, having been there many times, and having spent years on usenet talking to Americans, but this seems to be yet another good example of two nations divided by a common language ... Arfa |
#37
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#38
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Cydrome Leader wrote: ugh, I hate the sound of bagpipes. Then learn to play something else. |
#39
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#40
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Tauno Voipio wrote: A bagpipe was invented as a military instrument to scare the enemy. That's just a story made up by cowardly enemy soldiers. |
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