This is one conductor in a cable from some iPod earphones:

http://www.tinyuploads.com/images/mizPu4.jpg

What is the best way to deal with the fibre strands and to tin the wire?

Thanks,
Dave

On Wed, 20 Feb 2013 23:06:45 -0800, DaveC wrote:

This is one conductor in a cable from some iPod earphones:
http://www.tinyuploads.com/images/mizPu4.jpg
What is the best way to deal with the fibre strands and to tin the wire?

Plan A: Find a short length of very fine uninsulated wire. A single
strand from some stranded wire is what I use. Wrap it around the
insulation about 2 times, and then continue wrapping around the tinsel
wire. Clip off the excess at the end. Solder the wrapped wire to the
replacement connector.

Plan B: Buy a new iPod earphone. They're cheaper than the replacment
connector.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

DaveC wrote in message
...
This is one conductor in a cable from some iPod earphones:

http://www.tinyuploads.com/images/mizPu4.jpg

What is the best way to deal with the fibre strands and to tin the wire?

Thanks,
Dave


Wire-wrap was considered an adequate technique for a decade.
2 pieces of very fine stripped wire, lay alongside each one , ends laying
together, a microdot of hotmelt glue on the ends and then when cool gives
something to twist between fingers, then coat with more hotmelt as
insulation. No actual soldering

Plan A: Find a short length of very fine uninsulated wire. A single
strand from some stranded wire is what I use. Wrap it around the
insulation about 2 times, and then continue wrapping around the tinsel
wire. Clip off the excess at the end. Solder the wrapped wire to the
replacement connector.

Sounds good.

Plan B: Buy a new iPod earphone. They're cheaper than the replacment
connector.

Not using it as earbuds. Just re-purposing the cord for a corded
single-earphone-with-mic unit. Have both, and am an avid "not to the landfill
will you go" kind of guy...

And beside, I'll learn something new (ie, soldering tinsel wire).

Dave

Wire-wrap was considered an adequate technique for a decade.
2 pieces of very fine stripped wire, lay alongside each one , ends laying
together, a microdot of hotmelt glue on the ends and then when cool gives
something to twist between fingers, then coat with more hotmelt as
insulation. No actual soldering

Very interesting.

But how does this apply to my particular need?

Dave

On Feb 21, 2:06*am, DaveC wrote:
This is one conductor in a cable from some iPod earphones:

http://www.tinyuploads.com/images/mizPu4.jpg

What is the best way to deal with the fibre strands and to tin the wire?

Thanks,
Dave

I did something like that... I just teased the wire away from the
fibers, cut the fibers, and the enamel on the wire burned off from the
heat of the soldering iron.

George H.

On 2/21/2013 12:24 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 20 Feb 2013 23:06:45 -0800, wrote:

This is one conductor in a cable from some iPod earphones:
http://www.tinyuploads.com/images/mizPu4.jpg
What is the best way to deal with the fibre strands and to tin the wire?

Plan A: Find a short length of very fine uninsulated wire. A single
strand from some stranded wire is what I use. Wrap it around the
insulation about 2 times, and then continue wrapping around the tinsel
wire. Clip off the excess at the end. Solder the wrapped wire to the
replacement connector.

Plan B: Buy a new iPod earphone. They're cheaper than the replacment
connector.


You can tin the wire in a solder pot...or blob of solder on the end of
an iron.
Problem is that it will break almost instantly at the transition point from
stiff to flexible.

The technique mentioned above seems to be an excellent solution to that
problem.

Plan A: Find a short length of very fine uninsulated wire. A single
strand from some stranded wire is what I use. Wrap it around the
insulation about 2 times, and then continue wrapping around the tinsel
wire. Clip off the excess at the end. Solder the wrapped wire to the
replacement connector.
Jeff L.

Problem is that it will break almost instantly at the transition point from
stiff to flexible.

The technique mentioned above seems to be an excellent solution to that
problem.
Mike

I don't understand the technique.

The wire is enameled (insulated). Do I prepare the wire by burning (or
sanding) off some of the enamel first?

I start wrapping back a way and wrap toward the end of the wire?

Then I solder not the tinsel wire but only the wrapping wire beyond the end
of the tinsel wire? This looks like there is no actual soldering of the
tinsel at all (which is intentional, I presume, to avoid stress points).

Then I solder not the tinsel wire but only the wrapping wire beyond the end
of the tinsel wire? This looks like there is no actual soldering of the
tinsel at all (which is intentional, I presume, to avoid stress points).

No, I think the wrapping wire creates a strain relief for a way back from the
point where you solder both the wrapping wire, the tinsel wires, and the
mating wire.

I think...

On Thu, 21 Feb 2013 11:25:48 -0800, notme wrote:

I don't understand the technique.

Sorry. I couldn't tell if it was coated or bare tinsel.

The wire is enameled (insulated). Do I prepare the wire by burning (or
sanding) off some of the enamel first?

Take a knife and scrape off some of the insulation. You don't need to
remove all of it or completely, just enough to make at least one
connection to the wrapping wire.

I start wrapping back a way and wrap toward the end of the wire?

Yes. The part that goes over the insulation acts as a mechanical
support to prevent breakage where the insulation ends. It's not
necessary to tightly pack the windings together. A loose spiral is
sufficient as long as there are multiple points of contact with the
tinsel.

Then I solder not the tinsel wire but only the wrapping wire beyond the end
of the tinsel wire?

Correct.

This looks like there is no actual soldering of the
tinsel at all (which is intentional, I presume, to avoid stress points).

Correct. You just need a mechanical connection. If this were some
device that carried some current, such a method would not be suitable.
However, since EP/Mic audio is very low power, a simple mechanical
connection is sufficient.

Incidentally, I learned this method back in the 1960's during my phone
phreaking days, when fixing tinsel telephone coil cords was became a
side business because nobody had cheap replacement coil cords or
insulation piercing spade lugs.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Thu, 21 Feb 2013 00:50:00 -0800, DaveC wrote:

Plan A: Find a short length of very fine uninsulated wire. A single
strand from some stranded wire is what I use. Wrap it around the
insulation about 2 times, and then continue wrapping around the tinsel
wire. Clip off the excess at the end. Solder the wrapped wire to the
replacement connector.

Sounds good.

Plan B: Buy a new iPod earphone. They're cheaper than the replacment
connector.

Not using it as earbuds. Just re-purposing the cord for a corded
single-earphone-with-mic unit. Have both, and am an avid "not to the landfill
will you go" kind of guy...

And beside, I'll learn something new (ie, soldering tinsel wire).

My kind of guy/

Dave

On Thu, 21 Feb 2013 06:41:32 -0800 (PST), George Herold
wrote:

On Feb 21, 2:06*am, DaveC wrote:
This is one conductor in a cable from some iPod earphones:

http://www.tinyuploads.com/images/mizPu4.jpg

What is the best way to deal with the fibre strands and to tin the wire?

Thanks,
Dave

I did something like that... I just teased the wire away from the
fibers, cut the fibers, and the enamel on the wire burned off from the
heat of the soldering iron.

Yes, even before I r ead your post, I remembed reading that enamel
insulation burned off during soldering. I've never relied on that,
but I guess I should have, since trying to scrape off the insulation
is enough to break the metal fibers.


George H.

On Thu, 21 Feb 2013 00:50:00 -0800, DaveC wrote:

Plan A: Find a short length of very fine uninsulated wire. A single
strand from some stranded wire is what I use. Wrap it around the
insulation about 2 times, and then continue wrapping around the tinsel
wire. Clip off the excess at the end. Solder the wrapped wire to the
replacement connector.

Sounds good.

Plan B: Buy a new iPod earphone. They're cheaper than the replacment
connector.

Not using it as earbuds. Just re-purposing the cord for a corded
single-earphone-with-mic unit. Have both, and am an avid "not to the landfill
will you go" kind of guy...

And beside, I'll learn something new (ie, soldering tinsel wire).

Dave

Another problem with very fine wire is that it dissolves in solder.
They do make/sell solders with high copper content to deal with that.
Ersin "savebit" is one such (sold with the idea that soldering iron
bits will dissolve or erode more slowly if the solder already contains
copper.

On Fri, 22 Feb 2013 08:56:28 -0500, default wrote:

On Thu, 21 Feb 2013 00:50:00 -0800, DaveC wrote:

Plan A: Find a short length of very fine uninsulated wire. A single
strand from some stranded wire is what I use. Wrap it around the
insulation about 2 times, and then continue wrapping around the tinsel
wire. Clip off the excess at the end. Solder the wrapped wire to the
replacement connector.

Sounds good.

Plan B: Buy a new iPod earphone. They're cheaper than the replacment
connector.

Not using it as earbuds. Just re-purposing the cord for a corded
single-earphone-with-mic unit. Have both, and am an avid "not to the landfill
will you go" kind of guy...

And beside, I'll learn something new (ie, soldering tinsel wire).

Dave

Another problem with very fine wire is that it dissolves in solder.

Is this for the same reason solder tips dissolve in solder (slowly).

I only use resin core, never acid core, and still the tips disappear
after years. I wouldn't mind except I had trouble finding new
screw-on tips a few years ago, because in the hobbyist-priced irons
they've gone back to screw-in tips.

They do make/sell solders with high copper content to deal with that.
Ersin "savebit" is one such (sold with the idea that soldering iron
bits will dissolve or erode more slowly if the solder already contains
copper.

On Sat, 23 Feb 2013 16:26:03 -0500,
micky wrote in message


On Fri, 22 Feb 2013 08:56:28 -0500, default wrote:

On Thu, 21 Feb 2013 00:50:00 -0800, DaveC wrote:

Plan A: Find a short length of very fine uninsulated wire. A single
strand from some stranded wire is what I use. Wrap it around the
insulation about 2 times, and then continue wrapping around the tinsel
wire. Clip off the excess at the end. Solder the wrapped wire to the
replacement connector.

Sounds good.

Plan B: Buy a new iPod earphone. They're cheaper than the replacment
connector.

Not using it as earbuds. Just re-purposing the cord for a corded
single-earphone-with-mic unit. Have both, and am an avid "not to the
landfill
will you go" kind of guy...

And beside, I'll learn something new (ie, soldering tinsel wire).

Dave

Another problem with very fine wire is that it dissolves in solder.

Is this for the same reason solder tips dissolve in solder (slowly).

That is the theory... If you slowly feed something like 32 or higher
AWG wire onto a hot, heavily tinned, tip you can watch it dissapear.

I only use resin core, never acid core, and still the tips disappear
after years. I wouldn't mind except I had trouble finding new
screw-on tips a few years ago, because in the hobbyist-priced irons
they've gone back to screw-in tips.

They do make/sell solders with high copper content to deal with that.
Ersin "savebit" is one such (sold with the idea that soldering iron
bits will dissolve or erode more slowly if the solder already contains
copper.

On 24 Feb 2013 16:47:58 GMT, "Default" wrote:

That is the theory... If you slowly feed something like 32 or higher
AWG wire onto a hot, heavily tinned, tip you can watch it dissapear.

I just tried it with one strand from 24 AWG stranded wire, which is
made from 7 strands of 32 AWG. I held the iron on the wire for about
5 minutes and nothing disappeared. Perhaps it's because my soldering
iron tip runs at about 400 C while copper melts at about 1085 C?

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sun, 24 Feb 2013 12:36:51 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On 24 Feb 2013 16:47:58 GMT, "Default" wrote:

That is the theory... If you slowly feed something like 32 or higher
AWG wire onto a hot, heavily tinned, tip you can watch it dissapear.

I just tried it with one strand from 24 AWG stranded wire, which is
made from 7 strands of 32 AWG. I held the iron on the wire for about
5 minutes and nothing disappeared. Perhaps it's because my soldering
iron tip runs at about 400 C while copper melts at about 1085 C?

---
It's not so much about the melting point of copper as it about copper
dissolving into a molten tin - lead alloy.

An analogy might be sugar dissolving into water far below sugar's
melting point.

--
JF

On Sun, 24 Feb 2013 16:29:46 -0600, John Fields
wrote:

On Sun, 24 Feb 2013 12:36:51 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On 24 Feb 2013 16:47:58 GMT, "Default" wrote:

That is the theory... If you slowly feed something like 32 or higher
AWG wire onto a hot, heavily tinned, tip you can watch it dissapear.

I just tried it with one strand from 24 AWG stranded wire, which is
made from 7 strands of 32 AWG. I held the iron on the wire for about
5 minutes and nothing disappeared. Perhaps it's because my soldering
iron tip runs at about 400 C while copper melts at about 1085 C?

It's not so much about the melting point of copper as it about copper
dissolving into a molten tin - lead alloy.

An analogy might be sugar dissolving into water far below sugar's
melting point.

Thanks. That makes sense, but I'm still skeptical. So, I tried it
again, this time with a thicker #28 bare copper wire on both my 750F
lead-tin (60/40) iron tip and my 850F RoHS tip. 15 minutes of applied
heat and I get the same result as before... nothing happened (except a
well tinned piece of wire and a pile of dross).

Digging, I found:
"Properties of Alloys of Multicore.. Solder Wires"
https://www.distrelec.cz/ishop/Datasheets/M-POFA_eng_datasheet.pdf
Multicore Savbit Solder is produced especially to
overcome the problem of ordinary tin/lead solders
dissolving copper. It is an alloy to which a precise
amount of copper has been added so that no further
copper absorption should take place during soldering.

From the graph, it appears that pure tin is the worst, with 60/40
being a close second. However, if there's any copper in the solder,
the copper wire doesn't want to dissolve. I'm not sure what's in the
RoHS solder on my bench. The label fell off long ago. I'll find some
more that doesn't have copper in it and see what happens.

I'll see if I can find some finer wire and try again. I want to see
the wire "disappear".

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sun, 24 Feb 2013 22:56:59 -0800, the renowned Jeff Liebermann
wrote:


From the graph, it appears that pure tin is the worst, with 60/40
being a close second. However, if there's any copper in the solder,
the copper wire doesn't want to dissolve. I'm not sure what's in the
RoHS solder on my bench. The label fell off long ago. I'll find some
more that doesn't have copper in it and see what happens.

I'll see if I can find some finer wire and try again. I want to see
the wire "disappear".

The cheap lead-free stuff I have has 0.7% Cu.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

On Sun, 24 Feb 2013 12:36:51 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On 24 Feb 2013 16:47:58 GMT, "Default" wrote:

That is the theory... If you slowly feed something like 32 or higher
AWG wire onto a hot, heavily tinned, tip you can watch it dissapear.

I just tried it with one strand from 24 AWG stranded wire, which is
made from 7 strands of 32 AWG. I held the iron on the wire for about
5 minutes and nothing disappeared. Perhaps it's because my soldering
iron tip runs at about 400 C while copper melts at about 1085 C?

Probably should have said - single strand of soft, = 32 AWG
UNTINNED copper wire as in "solder ez" magnet wire. 32 will dissolve
(I know) and 41 awg is damn near impossible to solder to. Only thing
that works is "reflow" (tin the part and heat it then touch the wire
to it - or wrap it around a tinned heavier lead with several turns
then reflow. In production quantities flux the part then a quick dip
in a just-skimmed solder pot)

There is a real art to soldering fine gauge wire and litz wire.

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 24 Feb 2013 16:29:46 -0600, John Fields
wrote:


On Sun, 24 Feb 2013 12:36:51 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:


On 24 Feb 2013 16:47:58 GMT, "Default" wrote:


That is the theory... If you slowly feed something like 32 or higher
AWG wire onto a hot, heavily tinned, tip you can watch it dissapear.

I just tried it with one strand from 24 AWG stranded wire, which is
made from 7 strands of 32 AWG. I held the iron on the wire for about
5 minutes and nothing disappeared. Perhaps it's because my soldering
iron tip runs at about 400 C while copper melts at about 1085 C?


It's not so much about the melting point of copper as it about copper
dissolving into a molten tin - lead alloy.

An analogy might be sugar dissolving into water far below sugar's
melting point.


Thanks. That makes sense, but I'm still skeptical. So, I tried it
again, this time with a thicker #28 bare copper wire on both my 750F
lead-tin (60/40) iron tip and my 850F RoHS tip. 15 minutes of applied
heat and I get the same result as before... nothing happened (except a
well tinned piece of wire and a pile of dross).

Digging, I found:
"Properties of Alloys of Multicore.. Solder Wires"
https://www.distrelec.cz/ishop/Datasheets/M-POFA_eng_datasheet.pdf
Multicore Savbit Solder is produced especially to
overcome the problem of ordinary tin/lead solders
dissolving copper. It is an alloy to which a precise
amount of copper has been added so that no further
copper absorption should take place during soldering.

From the graph, it appears that pure tin is the worst, with 60/40
being a close second. However, if there's any copper in the solder,
the copper wire doesn't want to dissolve. I'm not sure what's in the
RoHS solder on my bench. The label fell off long ago. I'll find some
more that doesn't have copper in it and see what happens.

I'll see if I can find some finer wire and try again. I want to see
the wire "disappear".

Did you first dip the wire tail in acetone to clean off the fibers and
any form of coating on the wire?

After do so, you then use a small amount of flux..

It has worked for me in the past for types of fine wire bundle in fiber
fillers.

Jamie

Spehro Pefhany wrote:

On Sun, 24 Feb 2013 22:56:59 -0800, the renowned Jeff Liebermann
wrote:


From the graph, it appears that pure tin is the worst, with 60/40

being a close second. However, if there's any copper in the solder,
the copper wire doesn't want to dissolve. I'm not sure what's in the
RoHS solder on my bench. The label fell off long ago. I'll find some
more that doesn't have copper in it and see what happens.

I'll see if I can find some finer wire and try again. I want to see
the wire "disappear".


The cheap lead-free stuff I have has 0.7% Cu.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

really, the junk I have has 5% in it and it hate it !

Jamie