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Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems. |
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#1
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dialup issues
I have two pots lines in my house. One is business class and the other
is residential. As far as I can tell the one difference between the two is that the phone company gets to charge me twice as much for the business line. A few years ago before we went to DSL we had dialup service here. On the business line I was never able to get any better than a 26K connection. I never really investigated this and with no audible aberrations on the line this was never a problem as we just used the dialup on the residential line instead. On that line we usually could get a 45K connection and sometimes even 50. I recently dropped the DSL service and will likely drop the residential service as well. We went back to dialup with the same provider. The business line speed problem noted years ago is still there. I've dialed up the telco's "quiet line" to listen to both lines off hook, (while we still have the residential line) and they both sound clean. I plan to go to the interface to look at this but we now have a big storm coming so for now the 26K will suffice. If plugging directly into the interface yields a good (45K) connection on the slow line then I realize that the problem is then in the premises and I'll have to troubleshoot that. My question is if the problem is in the premises wiring what could be the most likely cause of something like this? As I previously mentioned I can't "hear" any problem but of course that doesn't mean that one doesn't exist. Before I start dismantling my inside wiring it would be nice if I had a clue as to what I was looking for. The phone company by the way has been no help with this. If anyone has any ideas that they would share I would be extremely grateful. Lenny |
#2
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dialup issues
On Fri, 8 Feb 2013 09:22:52 -0800 (PST), klem kedidelhopper
wrote: I have two pots lines in my house. One is business class and the other is residential. As far as I can tell the one difference between the two is that the phone company gets to charge me twice as much for the business line. Nope. It depends on how the line is run. If you have copper pair going all the way back to the CO (central office), then you'll probably do ok for 56kbits/sec dialup. However, if your line is delivered via an ISDN pair gain split or SLC (subscriber line constipator), you'll see only about 24Kbit/sec. You should have kept the residential line, and move the business number to it. Too late. The business line speed problem noted years ago is still there. I've dialed up the telco's "quiet line" to listen to both lines off hook, (while we still have the residential line) and they both sound clean. You can't hear the noise on a quiet line. You'll need an instrument to measure the residual noise level. However, I don't think that's the problem. My question is if the problem is in the premises wiring what could be the most likely cause of something like this? No. The most likely culprits a 1. Bridged taps. 2. Equalizers left in the line from previous service owner. 3. Rotten connections on the poles (noise and high loop resistance). 4. Excessive crosstalk from other services in the bundle. 5. AM Radio station pickup. 6. Whatever else I forgot. I've seen pairs in the same bundle, where most work just fine, but where one or two pairs are garbage or worse. I recently had that on my home POTS pair, which required considerable effort on the part of Ma Bell to untangle the mess they created. I've also seen intermittent problems, where 56K was possible during daylight hours, but would magically drop to 26K after midnight. That turned out to be AT&T running "preventive maintenance" tests and forgetting to turn off the tones and sweeps. If anyone has any ideas that they would share I would be extremely grateful. Lenny This brings back nightmares from 15 years ago. Welcome to the stone age: http://www.LearnByDestroying.com/aty11/aty11.htm (Most of the links are dead.... Oh well). Using a USR modem and this method, I've been able to identify screwed up phone lines fairly easily. I hate to point out the obvious, but you can get "dry" DSL service (i.e. no voice service) for not much more than POTS voice. Then, get yourself a really cheap VoIP provider (http://www.future-nine.com or http://www.ooma.com), and you've got voice and data. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#3
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dialup issues
I've seen pairs in the same bundle, where most work just fine,
but where one or two pairs are garbage or worse. So... inasmuch as a house's internal cabling usually has unused pairs -- would it be worth switching to another pair? |
#4
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dialup issues
On 2/8/2013 9:22 AM, klem kedidelhopper wrote:
snipped I plan to go to the interface to look at this but we now have a big storm coming so for now the 26K will suffice. If plugging directly into the interface yields a good (45K) connection on the slow line then I realize that the problem is then in the premises and I'll have to troubleshoot that. My question is if the problem is in the premises wiring what could be the most likely cause of something like this? As I previously mentioned I can't "hear" any problem but of course that doesn't mean that one doesn't exist. Before I start dismantling my inside wiring it would be nice if I had a clue as to what I was looking for. The phone company by the way has been no help with this. If anyone has any ideas that they would share I would be extremely grateful. Lenny FWIW, I had a problem with low DSL speed similar to yours. It turned out to be a tarnished/corroded RJ-11 wall plate jack. Once the wall plate was replaced, the problems disappeared. |
#5
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dialup issues
In article
, klem kedidelhopper wrote: My question is if the problem is in the premises wiring what could be the most likely cause of something like this? Klem- There should be a modular phone connector in the box where your phone line attaches to the house. You can isolate a problem to being inside or outside, by connecting your equipment to the outside jack, and seeing if the problem goes away. Fred |
#6
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dialup issues
On 2/8/2013 9:22 AM, klem kedidelhopper wrote:
I have two pots lines in my house. One is business class and the other is residential. As far as I can tell the one difference between the two is that the phone company gets to charge me twice as much for the business line. A few years ago before we went to DSL we had dialup service here. On the business line I was never able to get any better than a 26K connection. I never really investigated this and with no audible aberrations on the line this was never a problem as we just used the dialup on the residential line instead. On that line we usually could get a 45K connection and sometimes even 50. I recently dropped the DSL service and will likely drop the residential service as well. We went back to dialup with the same provider. The business line speed problem noted years ago is still there. I've dialed up the telco's "quiet line" to listen to both lines off hook, (while we still have the residential line) and they both sound clean. I plan to go to the interface to look at this but we now have a big storm coming so for now the 26K will suffice. If plugging directly into the interface yields a good (45K) connection on the slow line then I realize that the problem is then in the premises and I'll have to troubleshoot that. My question is if the problem is in the premises wiring what could be the most likely cause of something like this? As I previously mentioned I can't "hear" any problem but of course that doesn't mean that one doesn't exist. Before I start dismantling my inside wiring it would be nice if I had a clue as to what I was looking for. The phone company by the way has been no help with this. If anyone has any ideas that they would share I would be extremely grateful. Lenny I had a speed problem back in the day. Called the number (in india) on the bill and was told the line was fine. But they'd gladly send someone out to tell me the same thing for a fee. I poked around and discovered the direct phone number to the district manager in my town. Problem was fixed in minutes. Somebody had the switch in the wrong position back at the CO. |
#7
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dialup issues
On Fri, 8 Feb 2013 09:56:36 -0800, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote: I've seen pairs in the same bundle, where most work just fine, but where one or two pairs are garbage or worse. So... inasmuch as a house's internal cabling usually has unused pairs -- would it be worth switching to another pair? Definitely, if you can get the phone company to do it. In my case, the bundle was fully subscribed and there were no spare pairs. However, as cable telephony and VoIP became more popular, many people gave up their POTS lines, making alternatives available. As soon as I found one good pair that was available (tested with a TDR), I convinced the phone company to mark mine bad and switch my line to a new pair. I've also done similar swaps for customers. It's not easy, but it is possible. Oddly, the most recent repair was a general cleanup of the noisy lines between my house (near the end of the line) to the termination box (about 3/4 mile). It took one installer, 3 hours and a bucket truck to fix all the crappy connections. He did it right. I inspected the work and it was perfect. That's 30+ years of crappy POTS service fixed in 3 hrs. Cleaning up phone lines is not rocket science. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#8
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dialup issues
Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Fri, 8 Feb 2013 09:56:36 -0800, "William Sommerwerck" wrote: I've seen pairs in the same bundle, where most work just fine, but where one or two pairs are garbage or worse. So... inasmuch as a house's internal cabling usually has unused pairs -- would it be worth switching to another pair? Definitely, if you can get the phone company to do it. In my case, the bundle was fully subscribed and there were no spare pairs. However, as cable telephony and VoIP became more popular, many people gave up their POTS lines, making alternatives available. As soon as I found one good pair that was available (tested with a TDR), I convinced the phone company to mark mine bad and switch my line to a new pair. I've also done similar swaps for customers. It's not easy, but it is possible. Oddly, the most recent repair was a general cleanup of the noisy lines between my house (near the end of the line) to the termination box (about 3/4 mile). It took one installer, 3 hours and a bucket truck to fix all the crappy connections. He did it right. I inspected the work and it was perfect. That's 30+ years of crappy POTS service fixed in 3 hrs. Cleaning up phone lines is not rocket science. Unless you're making phone calls from space. ;-) A 'Magic Jack+' plugged into the Sat router/modem attached to the Microdyne 700 wideband KU band communications system aboard the ISS, and you can have a local phone number in orbit. |
#9
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dialup issues
Fred McKenzie wrote:
In article , klem kedidelhopper wrote: My question is if the problem is in the premises wiring what could be the most likely cause of something like this? Klem- There should be a modular phone connector in the box where your phone line attaches to the house. You can isolate a problem to being inside or outside, by connecting your equipment to the outside jack, and seeing if the problem goes away. Well, not always. We have corrosion IN the demarcation box, and that RJ11 needs to be replaced every couple years. This is St. Louis, MO., humid, but not insanely so. You can tell because the whole connector turns black, both the jack and most especially the plug on the pigtail, where it is really obvious because it is supposed to be clear plastic. Jon |
#10
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dialup issues
In article , mike wrote:
My question is if the problem is in the premises wiring what could be the most likely cause of something like this? As I previously mentioned I can't "hear" any problem but of course that doesn't mean that one doesn't exist. Before I start dismantling my inside wiring it would be nice if I had a clue as to what I was looking for. The phone company by the way has been no help with this. I've had premises-wiring problems from all sorts of causes: - Humidity and moisture condensation in the wall outlet box (affecting a wall box located near our washing machine). Surface contamination (dirt and mold buildup) plus moisture equals leakage, which was apparently enough to cause problems. - Corrosion of the connecting screws, wire-end ring or fork terminals, or the wire ends crimped to the terminals... again, probably due to moisture and contamination over the years. - Loose screw-and-terminal connections in the connection boxes. In many cases the screws are coarse-thread self-tapping varieties, screwed into relatively soft plastic; over the years they can work loose or (if loosened and tightened repeatedly) tear or wear out the plastic into which they are fastened. - Corroded, dirty, or bent metal "fingers" in the RJ-11/12 jacks. - Too many branch circuits within the house... e.g. it's wired for "a phone in every room". The usused jacks act as unterminated stubs, and cause signal reflections (near-end echo) which can interfere with the incoming signal. My guess is that near-end echo which is inaudible or unobjectionable to the human ear (too low in amplitude, too near in time to the original transmission) can still degrade signal quality in a full-duplex modem transmission. - Phones on other branch circuits on the line placing their ringer impedance across the line - again a form of near-end echo but with slightly different characteristics. - Bad connections (e.g. sets of wires merely twisted together, perhaps with wire nuts, rather than being either soldered or cross-connected with a good "punch-down" system of some sort. - Use of old-style non-twisted-pair "station cable" or (worse yet) flat "satin" cable for the premises wiring. This leads to poor rejection of RFI and hum. Running phone wire right by power wiring can induce hum, and this makes life more difficult for the modem. I can't give any objective estimate as to the amount of trouble any one of these can cause, but I believe that all of them can have some effect. When looking at and diagnosing your existing premises wiring, I'd start by looking at all of the connectors - they're probably the weakest link. Check the wire itself (wherever it's accessible) to look for dubious connections, breaks (rats and mice sometimes chew up the cable), or unneeded branch connections which could be eliminated. Pulling new wire is probably a measure of last resort but might be necessary. The closer you can get to an "Ethernet-class" phone wiring from your modem's connection point back to the MPOE, the better. A single run of twisted-pair cable (CAT-3 or better), punched down onto good-quality insulation-displacement-type RJ-11 terminations, with no branch circuits and thus nothing else sharing the line, is probably the best approach I can recommend. -- Dave Platt AE6EO Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads! |
#11
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dialup issues
On Feb 8, 3:46*pm, Jon Elson wrote:
Fred McKenzie wrote: In article , *klem kedidelhopper wrote: My question is if the problem is in the premises wiring what could be the most likely cause of something like this? Klem- There should be a modular phone connector in the box where your phone line attaches to the house. *You can isolate a problem to being inside or outside, by connecting your equipment to the outside jack, and seeing if the problem goes away. Well, not always. *We have corrosion IN the demarcation box, and that RJ11 needs to be replaced every couple years. *This is St. Louis, MO., humid, but not insanely so. *You can tell because the whole connector turns black, both the jack and most especially the plug on the pigtail, where it is really obvious because it is supposed to be clear plastic. Jon Well I guess that before tearing my house wiring apart I'll go to the demarc, (after this monster storm the Northeast is having is over) and see if the line to the CO without the premises wiring in parallel with it gets me a good connection. The best I can hope for is that it doesn't. Then I'll know my fight is with the telephone company. That will be interesting to see what kind of **** they'll give me at that point as they also provide dialup service, but at 4 times the cost of my provider.. Lenny |
#12
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dialup issues
klem kedidelhopper wrote:
Well I guess that before tearing my house wiring apart I'll go to the demarc, (after this monster storm the Northeast is having is over) and see if the line to the CO without the premises wiring in parallel with it gets me a good connection. The best I can hope for is that it doesn't. Then I'll know my fight is with the telephone company. That will be interesting to see what kind of **** they'll give me at that point as they also provide dialup service, but at 4 times the cost of my provider.. Lenny I used to have DSL. Our lines were not great before DSL, and were OK after, and I used DSL for at least 5 years, first with Telocity, then DirectTV, and finally Covad. (I think I got that order correct.) All of these DSL services worked quite well until AT&T bought Southwestern Bell. Then my lines went terribly bad, constant crackling and hum, and phone service was even out for days at a time. AT&T's fix was to add over a MILE of zig-zag trunks all over town, and my DSL just about died at 18,000 feet of wire. I had the demarc box fixed a number of times, the buried drop from the pole was dug up and replaced 3 or 4 times, and some buried trunk under the street, etc. was also replaced. After I got rid of DSL and went to cable, we STILL had phone line trouble, but they seem to have gotten it working pretty well, lately. Oh, well, spring lightning season is soon upon us, so it will go bad again. I changed my business line over from POTS to VOIP and I can't believe how good it sounds, though. Compared to AT&T it sounds like a recording studio! I have internet through Charter Business, pretty expensive, but basically the only game in town. I need the Business service because I have a web store, mail server, primary DNS server, file server, etc. at my house. Once every 18 months or so some imbecile driver goes airborne and shears off the pole down the street and that sometimes causes cable trunk problems, the internet keeps on working, but you get a lot of dropped packets until they get it fixed. Jon |
#13
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dialup issues
Dave Platt wrote:
- Too many branch circuits within the house... e.g. it's wired for "a phone in every room". The usused jacks act as unterminated stubs, and cause signal reflections (near-end echo) which can interfere with the incoming signal. My guess is that near-end echo which is inaudible or unobjectionable to the human ear (too low in amplitude, too near in time to the original transmission) can still degrade signal quality in a full-duplex modem transmission. Oh, yeah. They give you some "phone filters" with the DSL modem. What you should do is install the DSL modem near the place the phone line enters the house. Cut the wire, connect the DSL modem with short wire to the incoming line, and put the filter right there, and connect the rest of the house to the filter. This should greatly help the DSL modem to work. Of course, this won't do any good for dialup. But, then, I can't even IMAGINE going back to dialup today. With the typical web pages offered today, you might take 2 hours to get the first page load from Google! Jon |
#14
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dialup issues
klem kedidelhopper wrote:
Well I guess that before tearing my house wiring apart I'll go to the demarc, (after this monster storm the Northeast is having is over) and see if the line to the CO without the premises wiring in parallel with it gets me a good connection. If you can get into the "phone company only" side of the demarc, do so. It should have a surge protector for each line, with three terminals: two for the line and one for ground. Sometimes these go wrong. You can temporarily disconnect the line from the surge protector (on a nice sunny day) and see if that improves things. (It may help to have a couple of sets of 6-32 screw, nut, and washer to make this connection.) Since you have two lines, you could also swap the protectors to see if there is a change. Don't run without the surge protector forever; just long enough to see if there is a change. Also, there is 48 VDC across each line and up to 90 VAC if it rings, so be careful. You can also check for water, flora, and fauna in there. When you are done, carefully put it back together the way it was. It is also worth applying an eyeball to the pedestal (underground cable) or splice cover (overhead) where your wire joins the cable in the neighborhood, to look for missing/damaged covers, signs of trees or critters or water getting in, etc. These are not really your baby to fix but you can point them out to the lineman. Matt Roberds |
#15
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dialup issues
On Fri, 08 Feb 2013 14:46:32 -0600, Jon Elson
wrote: Well, not always. We have corrosion IN the demarcation box, and that RJ11 needs to be replaced every couple years. This is St. Louis, MO., humid, but not insanely so. You can tell because the whole connector turns black, both the jack and most especially the plug on the pigtail, where it is really obvious because it is supposed to be clear plastic. Black or dark brown is copper oxide. My guess(tm) is that you do not have gold contacts and have not applied any silicon grease to the contacts to keep the moisture out. Clean the connectors, apply some grease, and it should last longer. Incidentally, the new AT&T NID (demarc) boxes are now coming with a different flavor of disconnect. Instead of the RJ11 with a flat cable jumper, it's now integrated with the inside line connector. Swivel the assembly and it automatically disconnects. http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/ATT-Demarc/index.html I'm tempted to put the old box back. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#16
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dialup issues
On Feb 9, 11:39*am, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 08 Feb 2013 14:46:32 -0600, Jon Elson wrote: Well, not always. *We have corrosion IN the demarcation box, and that RJ11 needs to be replaced every couple years. *This is St. Louis, MO., humid, but not insanely so. *You can tell because the whole connector turns black, both the jack and most especially the plug on the pigtail, where it is really obvious because it is supposed to be clear plastic. Black or dark brown is copper oxide. *My guess(tm) is that you do not have gold contacts and have not applied any silicon grease to the contacts to keep the moisture out. *Clean the connectors, apply some grease, and it should last longer. Incidentally, the new AT&T NID (demarc) boxes are now coming with a different flavor of disconnect. *Instead of the RJ11 with a flat cable jumper, it's now integrated with the inside line connector. *Swivel the assembly and it automatically disconnects. http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/ATT-Demarc/index.html I'm tempted to put the old box back. -- Jeff Liebermann * * 150 Felker St #D * *http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann * * AE6KS * *831-336-2558 looks like you can't tell anything now with the connections concealed. Progress??????? |
#17
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dialup issues
On Sat, 9 Feb 2013 17:42:13 -0800 (PST), "
wrote: looks like you can't tell anything now with the connections concealed. Progress??????? As Apple and AT&T would usually say "You don't need to know", or more correctly "Now you can't find out". That's why I want to put the old NIU back in it's place. I can't see what's happening or plug in my tester. I'll probably end up building an RJ14 male-to-female T-adapter cable with test points so can do something useful with it. Made by Corning: http://catalog.corning.com/CableSystems/en-US/catalog/MasterProduct.aspx?cid=copper_nids_web&pid=21746 -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#18
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dialup issues
On Fri, 8 Feb 2013 09:22:52 -0800 (PST), klem kedidelhopper
wrote: I have two pots lines in my house. One is business class and the other is residential. As far as I can tell the one difference between the two is that the phone company gets to charge me twice as much for the business line. A few years ago before we went to DSL we had dialup service here. On the business line I was never able to get any better than a 26K connection. I never really investigated this and with no audible aberrations on the line this was never a problem as we just used the dialup on the residential line instead. On that line we usually could get a 45K connection and sometimes even 50. I recently dropped the DSL service and will likely drop the residential service as well. We went back to dialup with the same provider. The business line speed problem noted years ago is still there. I've dialed up the telco's "quiet line" to listen to both lines What's the quiet line? Does every phone company have this? Does Verizon? off hook, (while we still have the residential line) and they both sound clean. I plan to go to the interface to look at this but we now have a big storm coming so for now the 26K will suffice. If plugging directly into the interface yields a good (45K) connection on the slow line then I realize that the problem is then in the premises and I'll have to troubleshoot that. My question is if the problem is in the premises wiring what could be the most likely cause of something like this? As I previously mentioned I can't "hear" any problem but of course that doesn't mean that one doesn't exist. Before I start dismantling my inside wiring it would be nice if I had a clue as to what I was looking for. The phone company by the way has been no help with this. I have little experience and almost no idea if this relates to you, but I have a story. And it's about DSL, not even dial-up. So for that reason too, maybe it has no application to you. But it's a good story. I signed up for that 5 years ago, and using some webpage to measure my speed, was never getting nearly as fast as I should Also, I have an indoor wiring problem that comes and goes, and so I had run a wire from the outside interface, up the front of the house and straight to a simple splitter, DSL and telephone. This meant I could only close the window and storm window maybe 95%. I was using the kind of 4 conductor wire used to connect phones to the wall. To close the window 100%, I bought special, thin, flat phone wire, from the phone section of Home Depot, meant for places like this, between windows and the window frame. . A few ways later, my phone continued to work, and the web radio worked, but newsgroups, email, and web did not. I was stumped, and the Verizon DSL guy come over. He said there is mor e than one level of the phone line not working, and of DSL not working.. So the fact that the phone and the web radio worked, didn't mean DSL was fully working. He said the wire going out the window was too thin. (Or maybe it had to do with too thin considering my aluminmum window frames (both surrounding the glass and lining the window opening. So now, for the last year, I use the kind of 4-conductor phone wire that people put inside walls, stiffer and thicker,, and my download speed has tripled and stayed tripled. . (I'm still not using the thickest or stiffest wire used for that, but I'm at the speed they promised me, so I suppose going to even thicker wire won't help I used other methods to keep the cold air from coming in the window around the wire. If anyone has any ideas that they would share I would be extremely grateful. Lenny |
#19
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dialup issues
On Sun, 10 Feb 2013 00:29:42 -0500, micky
wrote: What's the quiet line? If you hear buzz, clicks, hummmmm, noise, crackly, etc on the phone, the first step is to determine whether it's a problem at the CO (central office), on the line, or somewhere in the inside wiring. To eliminate the inside wiring, simply plug the tester into the NIU (demarc), thus disconnecting the house wiring. To determine if it's coming from the switch at the CO, dial a quiet line number. All it does is terminate the call to a perfect dummy load, that does NOT go through the switch. If the noise disappears, it's coming from somewhere inside the CO. If it's still there, it's on the line somewhere. Does every phone company have this? Does Verizon? Yes, yes, and I don't know the Verizon number. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#20
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dialup issues
micky wrote:
A few ways later, my phone continued to work, and the web radio worked, but newsgroups, email, and web did not. I was stumped, and the Verizon DSL guy come over. He said there is mor e than one level of the phone line not working, and of DSL not working.. So the fact that the phone and the web radio worked, didn't mean DSL was fully working. He said the wire going out the window was too thin. (Or maybe it had to do with too thin considering my aluminmum window frames (both surrounding the glass and lining the window opening. That's because DSL is "adaptive". The devices at each end are "smart" and try the maximum speed they can. If that fails, or they get too many errors, they try a lower speed until they can connect. Analog modems do that too. I can connect to the web browser interface of my DSL routers (which include "modems") and see the exact speed the line is capable of, the speed it is running at and the error rates. I can even run a BER (bit error rate) test without disturbing the line. In my case it's not very useful, as the DSL portion of my phone service runs few hundred meters. It goes to a box somewhere near my home which converts the DSL and analog voice to fiber optics. That device is even smarter than you would expect, it opens its own trouble tickets with the phone company and sends me SMSs when it does or they are resolved. Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson, N3OWJ/4X1GM/KBUH7245/KBUW5379 Gung Hay Fat Choy! (May the new year be prosperous). |
#21
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dialup issues
On Feb 10, 1:24*am, "Geoffrey S. Mendelson"
wrote: micky wrote: A few ways later, *my phone continued to work, and the web radio worked, but newsgroups, email, and web did not. * I was stumped, and the Verizon DSL guy come over. *He said there is mor e than one level of the phone line not working, and of DSL not working.. * So the fact that the phone and the web radio worked, didn't mean DSL was fully working. * * He said the wire going out the window was too thin. * (Or maybe it had to do with too thin considering my aluminmum window frames (both surrounding the glass and lining the window opening. That's because DSL is "adaptive". The devices at each end are "smart" and try the maximum speed they can. If that fails, or they get too many errors, they try a lower speed until they can connect. Analog modems do that too. I can connect to the web browser interface of my DSL routers (which include "modems") and see the exact speed the line is capable of, the speed it is running at and the error rates. I can even run a BER (bit error rate) test without disturbing the line. In my case it's not very useful, as the DSL portion of my phone service runs few hundred meters. It goes to a box somewhere near my home which converts the DSL and analog voice to fiber optics. That device is even smarter than you would expect, it opens its own trouble tickets with the phone company and sends me SMSs when it does or they are resolved. Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson, *N3OWJ/4X1GM/KBUH7245/KBUW5379 Gung Hay Fat Choy! (May the new year be prosperous). Quiet line numbers are often like ANI numbers (for identifying the CO line), which are "top secret" within the phone company. The phone company will never give them to you, but a cooperative lineman might after you've established a rap or with him on a job. Some of the older local exchanges here in New England worked with 200-2222222. Lenny |
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dialup issues
On Mon, 11 Feb 2013 07:16:21 -0800 (PST), klem kedidelhopper
wrote: Quiet line numbers are often like ANI numbers (for identifying the CO line), which are "top secret" within the phone company. The phone company will never give them to you, but a cooperative lineman might after you've established a rap or with him on a job. Some of the older local exchanges here in New England worked with 200-2222222. Lenny Ummm... ANAC numbers from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_number_announcement_circuit You should be able to find quiet line numbers with Google. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#23
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dialup issues
On Sat, 09 Feb 2013 22:10:47 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote: On Sun, 10 Feb 2013 00:29:42 -0500, micky wrote: What's the quiet line? If you hear buzz, clicks, hummmmm, noise, crackly, etc on the phone, the first step is to determine whether it's a problem at the CO (central office), on the line, or somewhere in the inside wiring. To eliminate the inside wiring, simply plug the tester into the NIU (demarc), thus disconnecting the house wiring. To determine if it's coming from the switch at the CO, dial a quiet line number. All it does is terminate the call to a perfect dummy load, that does NOT go through the switch. If the noise disappears, it's coming from somewhere inside the CO. If it's still there, it's on the line somewhere. Does every phone company have this? Does Verizon? Yes, yes, and I don't know the Verizon number. Please provide any number that you know. I am willing to bet that it is industry standard. ?-) |
#24
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dialup issues
On Mon, 11 Feb 2013 07:16:21 -0800 (PST), klem kedidelhopper
wrote: On Feb 10, 1:24*am, "Geoffrey S. Mendelson" wrote: micky wrote: A few ways later, *my phone continued to work, and the web radio worked, but newsgroups, email, and web did not. * I was stumped, and the Verizon DSL guy come over. *He said there is mor e than one level of the phone line not working, and of DSL not working.. * So the fact that the phone and the web radio worked, didn't mean DSL was fully working. * * He said the wire going out the window was too thin. * (Or maybe it had to do with too thin considering my aluminmum window frames (both surrounding the glass and lining the window opening. That's because DSL is "adaptive". The devices at each end are "smart" and try the maximum speed they can. If that fails, or they get too many errors, they try a lower speed until they can connect. Analog modems do that too. I can connect to the web browser interface of my DSL routers (which include "modems") and see the exact speed the line is capable of, the speed it is running at and the error rates. I can even run a BER (bit error rate) test without disturbing the line. In my case it's not very useful, as the DSL portion of my phone service runs few hundred meters. It goes to a box somewhere near my home which converts the DSL and analog voice to fiber optics. That device is even smarter than you would expect, it opens its own trouble tickets with the phone company and sends me SMSs when it does or they are resolved. Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson, *N3OWJ/4X1GM/KBUH7245/KBUW5379 Gung Hay Fat Choy! (May the new year be prosperous). Quiet line numbers are often like ANI numbers (for identifying the CO line), which are "top secret" within the phone company. The phone company will never give them to you, but a cooperative lineman might after you've established a rap or with him on a job. Some of the older local exchanges here in New England worked with 200-2222222. Lenny How about that. Many 555-#### numbers are various diagnostic systems. ?-) |
#25
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dialup issues
On Sat, 16 Feb 2013 18:22:31 -0800, josephkk
wrote: On Sat, 09 Feb 2013 22:10:47 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Sun, 10 Feb 2013 00:29:42 -0500, micky wrote: What's the quiet line? If you hear buzz, clicks, hummmmm, noise, crackly, etc on the phone, the first step is to determine whether it's a problem at the CO (central office), on the line, or somewhere in the inside wiring. To eliminate the inside wiring, simply plug the tester into the NIU (demarc), thus disconnecting the house wiring. To determine if it's coming from the switch at the CO, dial a quiet line number. All it does is terminate the call to a perfect dummy load, that does NOT go through the switch. If the noise disappears, it's coming from somewhere inside the CO. If it's still there, it's on the line somewhere. Does every phone company have this? Does Verizon? Yes, yes, and I don't know the Verizon number. Please provide any number that you know. I am willing to bet that it is industry standard. ?-) How much would you like to bet? The ANAC, ANI, DAMT, quiet line, milliwatt tone, etc test numbers vary between locations, CO's, type of switch, and companies. Same with quiet line numbers, security, test equipment, procedures, and standards. AT&T is fairly standardized throughout the system. I don't have a clue what Verizon does as everything I work with locally uses AT&T. However, if you want numbers to abuse, this might help. http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=583069 It's 10 year old, but looks accurate. Please send my winnings to the address below. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#26
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dialup issues
On Sat, 16 Feb 2013 18:26:37 -0800, josephkk
wrote: How about that. Many 555-#### numbers are various diagnostic systems. ?-) Nope. Except for directory assistance, the 555 prefix is reserved for "fake" phone numbers, as used in movies and videos. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/555_(telephone_number) -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#27
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dialup issues
On Sat, 16 Feb 2013 19:11:49 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote: On Sat, 16 Feb 2013 18:26:37 -0800, josephkk wrote: How about that. Many 555-#### numbers are various diagnostic systems. ?-) Nope. Except for directory assistance, the 555 prefix is reserved for "fake" phone numbers, as used in movies and videos. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/555_(telephone_number) I hate when they use a 555 number in a movie. For gosh sakes, how stupid would someone have to be to think the number they give in a movie is really the number of someone like the character in the movie? Calling those numbers should seem like calling random numbers. ** I also hate it when they remove t he rear-view mirrors of movie cars. I've seen a few movies where they leave the rear view mirror and it looks a lot better. It doesn't distract from the actors. It's a much bigger distraction when it's not there. On Law & Order, they always give the address of tte place they are going. Often it's in the East River or Hudson River, but it still indicates teh area they have in mind. Other times it would be in a real block, residential even, but I assume the number they give is between two real addresses. I have a good friend at W. 85th and Columbus, and according to Law & Order, a lot goes on within a block of her apartment. |
#28
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dialup issues
On Sat, 16 Feb 2013 18:22:31 -0800, josephkk
wrote: On Sat, 09 Feb 2013 22:10:47 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Sun, 10 Feb 2013 00:29:42 -0500, micky wrote: What's the quiet line? If you hear buzz, clicks, hummmmm, noise, crackly, etc on the phone, the first step is to determine whether it's a problem at the CO (central office), on the line, or somewhere in the inside wiring. To eliminate the inside wiring, simply plug the tester into the NIU (demarc), thus disconnecting the house wiring. To determine if it's coming from the switch at the CO, dial a quiet line number. All it does is terminate the call to a perfect dummy load, that does NOT go through the switch. If the noise disappears, it's coming from somewhere inside the CO. If it's still there, it's on the line somewhere. Does every phone company have this? Does Verizon? Yes, yes, and I don't know the Verizon number. Please provide any number that you know. I am willing to bet that it is industry standard. ?-) In grammar school, the phone guy told me the number to get it to ring back. 1197 and 1191, but they don't work now where I live now. Didnt' when I checked 30 years ago. They are very useful if one is sick in bed and wants to call his mother. who is downstairs. |
#29
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dialup issues
Geoffrey S. Mendelson forklarede:
micky wrote: In my case it's not very useful, as the DSL portion of my phone service runs few hundred meters. It goes to a box somewhere near my home which converts the DSL and analog voice to fiber optics. That device is even smarter than you would expect, it opens its own trouble tickets with the phone company and sends me SMSs when it does or they are resolved. I assume you mean the box down the road is alerting, not your individual dsl boxes in the homes. the box down the road is monitored from the central office, where it is decided when an anomaly is turned into a ticket, and when it is decided the problem is fixed, the sms'es are sent. I don't think the box down the corner has any "free will" to generate sms'es. Of cause I could be wrong... Leif -- Husk kørelys bagpå, hvis din bilfabrikant har taget den idiotiske beslutning at undlade det. |
#30
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dialup issues
Den 17/02/2013, skrev micky:
On Sat, 16 Feb 2013 19:11:49 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Sat, 16 Feb 2013 18:26:37 -0800, josephkk wrote: How about that. Many 555-#### numbers are various diagnostic systems. ?-) Nope. Except for directory assistance, the 555 prefix is reserved for "fake" phone numbers, as used in movies and videos. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/555_(telephone_number) I hate when they use a 555 number in a movie. For gosh sakes, how stupid would someone have to be to think the number they give in a movie is really the number of someone like the character in the movie? Calling those numbers should seem like calling random numbers. ** You would be amazed about the stupidity of people. And if Dark Knight Rises grossed 1.1billion, average $10 per ticket, and one in a million will call a number in a movie, that gives 1000 calls. Would you like to get 1000 calls asking for Batman? -- Husk kørelys bagpå, hvis din bilfabrikant har taget den idiotiske beslutning at undlade det. |
#31
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dialup issues
micky wrote: On Sat, 16 Feb 2013 19:11:49 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Sat, 16 Feb 2013 18:26:37 -0800, josephkk wrote: How about that. Many 555-#### numbers are various diagnostic systems. ?-) Nope. Except for directory assistance, the 555 prefix is reserved for "fake" phone numbers, as used in movies and videos. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/555_(telephone_number) I hate when they use a 555 number in a movie. For gosh sakes, how stupid would someone have to be to think the number they give in a movie is really the number of someone like the character in the movie? Calling those numbers should seem like calling random numbers. ** Some rock band in the mid '80s recorded a song with a real phone number in it, and idiots all over the country were calling it. Since they didn't give an area code, there were a lot of people being harassed, some around the clock. Of course, what could you expect from the MTV drones? |
#32
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dialup issues
Leif Neland wrote:
I assume you mean the box down the road is alerting, not your individual dsl boxes in the homes. Yes, BUT. The router I have is roughly equivalent to a 2005 computer in terms of processor capability, RAM, offline storage (ROM), IO (one USB port, 4 ethernet ports, one VDSL modem, one 802.11n multichannel access point). It can run three virtual internet sessions for tunneling, two for me, one for a separate public network. It can provide a disk server or a print server via the USB. I expect it can't send SMSs because it has no cellular connection, but it may well be able to use a channel on the DSL line private to the phone company for sending trouble tickets, etc. the box down the road is monitored from the central office, where it is decided when an anomaly is turned into a ticket, and when it is decided the problem is fixed, the sms'es are sent. Probably. I don't think the box down the corner has any "free will" to generate sms'es. I don't know. My asterisk system has a cellular modem used as a phone so I can receive and make calls and SMSs over the cellular network. It can send me SMS's on its own. Or to be more accurate, it COULD if I had anything programmed to triger them. What I do have is set of PERL programs that run on a different computer and when I run them, ssh into the asterisk system to send SMSs. The other way, the asterisk system receives the SMS and emails it to me. Note that some routers have USB ports programmed to connect to the cellular network with modem sticks. I also have one of those used for emergency backup. I assume you could run DD-WRT on them and a stripped down Asterisk system which could send SMS's based upon pre-programmed conditions (but not free will, as in "I'm lonely. Please log into me". Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson, N3OWJ/4X1GM/KBUH7245/KBUW5379 Gung Hay Fat Choy! (May the new year be prosperous). |
#33
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dialup issues
On Feb 17, 12:54*pm, "Geoffrey S. Mendelson"
wrote: Leif Neland wrote: I assume you mean the box down the road is alerting, not your individual dsl boxes in the homes. Yes, BUT. The router I have is roughly equivalent to a 2005 computer in terms of processor capability, RAM, offline storage (ROM), IO (one USB port, 4 ethernet ports, one VDSL modem, one 802.11n multichannel access point). It can run three virtual internet sessions for tunneling, two for me, one for a separate public network. It can provide a disk server or a print server via the USB. I expect it can't send SMSs because it has no cellular connection, but it may well be able to use a channel on the DSL line private to the phone company for sending trouble tickets, etc. the box down the road is monitored from the central office, where it is decided when an anomaly is turned into a ticket, and when it is decided the problem is fixed, the sms'es are sent. Probably. I don't think the box down the corner has any "free will" to generate sms'es. I don't know. My asterisk system has a cellular modem used as a phone so I can receive and make calls and SMSs over the cellular network. It can send me SMS's on its own. Or to be more accurate, it COULD if I had anything programmed to triger them. What I do have is set of PERL programs that run on a different computer and when I run them, ssh into the asterisk system to send SMSs. The other way, the asterisk system receives the SMS and emails it to me. Note that some routers have USB ports programmed to connect to the cellular network with modem sticks. I also have one of those used for emergency backup. I assume you could run DD-WRT on them and a stripped down Asterisk system which could send SMS's based upon pre-programmed conditions (but not free will, as in "I'm lonely. Please log into me". Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson, *N3OWJ/4X1GM/KBUH7245/KBUW5379 Gung Hay Fat Choy! (May the new year be prosperous). Tommy Two Tone was the group, and that was the 80's song "8675309". People all over the country had to get their numbers changed because of that song. Well I finally dug a path through the snow out to the interface and plugged my laptop directly into into it using a 6 foot cable and guess what? A 26.4K connection! So I called the phone company to complain, and (it was Saturday) but the rep told me that she would run it by the technician on Tuesday and get back to me, disturbingly adding that she "wasn't sure if they could do anything about it". Then she further disturbingly added the usual cover their asses statement that if it is determined that there was no problem with the telephone company's lines, "a service charge would apply". Well this really ****ed me off, and I told her that as far as I know if I plugged into their interface and duplicated my problem then the trouble is NOT premises related, it is THEIR's and therefore I cannot be charged for a service call which they might make of their own volition or of my request. Did I imagine that or is that a fact? I added that if they sent a tech over I could easily demonstrate at the interface that I can get a 45K connection on one line and only a 26.4K connection on the other. I would take that service charge if I ever got one to the PUC if I had to What actually are my rights here? This is a business line. Is the phone company "required" to provide me with a line that I can get full dial up bandwidth on? Can I legally push this issue with them? Or can they really turn around and say "sorry Charlie but we're providing you with voice communications and we can't do anything about your dialup speed issue. Lenny |
#34
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dialup issues
On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 08:58:25 -0800 (PST), klem kedidelhopper
wrote: Well I finally dug a path through the snow out to the interface and plugged my laptop directly into into it using a 6 foot cable and guess what? A 26.4K connection! So I called the phone company to complain, and (it was Saturday) but the rep told me that she would run it by the technician on Tuesday and get back to me, disturbingly adding that she "wasn't sure if they could do anything about it". Then she further disturbingly added the usual cover their asses statement that if it is determined that there was no problem with the telephone company's lines, "a service charge would apply". They are required to inform you that charges may apply, even if they are unlikely, just in case you want additional work done when they arrive. That's because someone sued and won claiming that Ma Bell didn't warn them that they would be charged for on premesis work. Strictly speaking, if the telephone tech even steps into your house, you could get a bill. I also know of one local tech that would claim he did inside work, when the owner never let him in the house or was away when the tech arrived. The solution is simple... don't let the tech in the house if you don't want to pay. Well this really ****ed me off, and I told her that as far as I know if I plugged into their interface and duplicated my problem then the trouble is NOT premises related, it is THEIR's and therefore I cannot be charged for a service call which they might make of their own volition or of my request. Did I imagine that or is that a fact? I added that if they sent a tech over I could easily demonstrate at the interface that I can get a 45K connection on one line and only a 26.4K connection on the other. I would take that service charge if I ever got one to the PUC if I had to Nice try. I don't know how it works in your area, but in the Peoples Republic of California, the PUC (public utilities commish) has separated the voice monopoly and data portions of the operation. You are guaranteed by the monopoly to have acceptable voice service. You are NOT guaranteed to be able to use the line for data at anything faster than 2400 baud. AT&T will make an effort to get it working to V.32 (9600 baud), but no higher. The reason is not crappy wiring. It's the large number of SLC, pair gain, and remote terminal systems that have saved AT&T considerable expense by not requiring a metallic pair back to the CO (central office). These are good for voice, but will generally limit your modem connection to about 26Kbit/sec because of the reduced bandwidth. If you want faster dialup, you'll need a metallic pair. The only way I've found to guess if it's an SLC, Pair Gain, or metallic pair is the frequency response test from the USR modem that I previously mentioned. What actually are my rights here? It depends on your state public utilities commission rules. What state or country are you in? The rules might be available online. This is a business line. Is the phone company "required" to provide me with a line that I can get full dial up bandwidth on? Not in California. Business lines actually have less "rights" than consumer lines, even though you pay more. Can I legally push this issue with them? Are you a lawyer? Do you have a large bank account? If not, I suspect you may be tilting at windmills. Or can they really turn around and say "sorry Charlie but we're providing you with voice communications and we can't do anything about your dialup speed issue. Yes, they can probably do exactly that. In California, if you complain to AT&T about data speeds, they will instantly suggest you buy their new and improved U-Verse data service (ADSL2+) and generally ignore all modem complaints. This has been an occasional problem with older credit card machines, that use dialup lines and internal modems. The result is that the business owner gets burned for a new terminal that does credit card verifications over the internet instead of dialup. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#35
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dialup issues
On Feb 18, 12:26*pm, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 08:58:25 -0800 (PST), klem kedidelhopper wrote: Well I finally dug a path through the snow out to the interface and plugged my laptop directly into into it using a 6 foot cable and guess what? A 26.4K connection! So I called the phone company to complain, and (it was Saturday) but the rep told me that she would run it by the technician on Tuesday and get back to me, disturbingly adding that she "wasn't sure if they could do anything about it". Then she further disturbingly added the usual cover their asses statement that if it is determined that there was no problem with the telephone company's lines, "a service charge would apply". They are required to inform you that charges may apply, even if they are unlikely, just in case you want additional work done when they arrive. *That's because someone sued and won claiming that Ma Bell didn't warn them that they would be charged for on premesis work. Strictly speaking, if the telephone tech even steps into your house, you could get a bill. *I also know of one local tech that would claim he did inside work, when the owner never let him in the house or was away when the tech arrived. *The solution is simple... don't let the tech in the house if you don't want to pay. Well this really ****ed me off, and I told her that as far as I know if I plugged into their interface and duplicated my problem then the trouble is NOT premises related, it is THEIR's and therefore I cannot be charged for a service call which they might make of their own volition or of my request. Did I imagine that or is that a fact? I added that if they sent a tech over I could easily demonstrate at the interface that I can get a 45K connection on one line and only a 26.4K connection on the other. I would take that service charge if I ever got one to the PUC if I had to Nice try. *I don't know how it works in your area, but in the Peoples Republic of California, the PUC (public utilities commish) has separated the voice monopoly and data portions of the operation. *You are guaranteed by the monopoly to have acceptable voice service. *You are NOT guaranteed to be able to use the line for data at anything faster than 2400 baud. *AT&T will make an effort to get it working to V.32 (9600 baud), but no higher. *The reason is not crappy wiring. It's the large number of SLC, pair gain, and remote terminal systems that have saved AT&T considerable expense by not requiring a metallic pair back to the CO (central office). *These are good for voice, but will generally limit your modem connection to about 26Kbit/sec because of the reduced bandwidth. *If you want faster dialup, you'll need a metallic pair. *The only way I've found to guess if it's an SLC, Pair Gain, or metallic pair is the frequency response test from the USR modem that I previously mentioned. What actually are my rights here? It depends on your state public utilities commission rules. *What state or country are you in? *The rules might be available online. This is a business line. Is the phone company "required" to provide me with a line that I can get full dial up bandwidth on? Not in California. *Business lines actually have less "rights" than consumer lines, even though you pay more. Can I legally push this issue with them? Are you a lawyer? *Do you have a large bank account? *If not, I suspect you may be tilting at windmills. Or can they really turn around and say "sorry Charlie but we're providing you with voice communications and we *can't do anything about your dialup speed issue. Yes, they can probably do exactly that. *In California, if you complain to AT&T about data speeds, they will instantly suggest you buy their new and improved U-Verse data service (ADSL2+) and generally ignore all modem complaints. *This has been an occasional problem with older credit card machines, that use dialup lines and internal modems. The result is that the business owner gets burned for a new terminal that does credit card verifications over the internet instead of dialup. -- Jeff Liebermann * * 150 Felker St #D * *http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann * * AE6KS * *831-336-2558 We're in New Hampshire. I don't know what the PUC rules are here either except that it seems like the utilities, telephone as well as electric have always seemed to have the PUC in their pockets. I think that I might have an idea as to how to approach this problem though. Several months ago I complained to the phone company about a strange random "Boing Boing" sound on my lines that would come and go during a conversation with someone. The noise was unpredictable, would usually last about a minute, was almost deafening at times and could only be heard by me and never by the person on the other end of the line. They never could verify my complaint, I'm certain that they never fixed it and it hasn't happened for awhile now. Perhaps I should remind them of this "continuing" problem that I've been living with that has apparently affected my dialup speed as well. Lenny. |
#36
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dialup issues
On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 10:35:08 -0800 (PST), klem kedidelhopper
wrote: We're in New Hampshire. I don't know what the PUC rules are here either except that it seems like the utilities, telephone as well as electric have always seemed to have the PUC in their pockets. Same as in most states. The regulators are now regulated by those that they were assigned to regulate. The world turned upside down. Perhaps I should remind them of this "continuing" problem that I've been living with that has apparently affected my dialup speed as well. When that fails, start he http://www.puc.nh.gov/Consumer/complaint.htm I don't see anything on the site for datacomm complaints. This should be a clue that they don't want to hear those. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#37
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dialup issues
On Sat, 16 Feb 2013 19:09:20 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote: On Sat, 16 Feb 2013 18:22:31 -0800, josephkk wrote: On Sat, 09 Feb 2013 22:10:47 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Sun, 10 Feb 2013 00:29:42 -0500, micky wrote: What's the quiet line? If you hear buzz, clicks, hummmmm, noise, crackly, etc on the phone, the first step is to determine whether it's a problem at the CO (central office), on the line, or somewhere in the inside wiring. To eliminate the inside wiring, simply plug the tester into the NIU (demarc), thus disconnecting the house wiring. To determine if it's coming from the switch at the CO, dial a quiet line number. All it does is terminate the call to a perfect dummy load, that does NOT go through the switch. If the noise disappears, it's coming from somewhere inside the CO. If it's still there, it's on the line somewhere. Does every phone company have this? Does Verizon? Yes, yes, and I don't know the Verizon number. Please provide any number that you know. I am willing to bet that it is industry standard. ?-) How much would you like to bet? The ANAC, ANI, DAMT, quiet line, milliwatt tone, etc test numbers vary between locations, CO's, type of switch, and companies. Same with quiet line numbers, security, test equipment, procedures, and standards. AT&T is fairly standardized throughout the system. I don't have a clue what Verizon does as everything I work with locally uses AT&T. However, if you want numbers to abuse, this might help. http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=583069 It's 10 year old, but looks accurate. Please send my winnings to the address below. Thanks. You warned me that they vary. ?-) |
#38
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dialup issues
On Feb 19, 1:09*am, josephkk wrote:
On Sat, 16 Feb 2013 19:09:20 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Sat, 16 Feb 2013 18:22:31 -0800, josephkk wrote: On Sat, 09 Feb 2013 22:10:47 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Sun, 10 Feb 2013 00:29:42 -0500, micky wrote: What's the quiet line? If you hear buzz, clicks, hummmmm, noise, crackly, etc on the phone, the first step is to determine whether it's a problem at the CO (central office), on the line, or somewhere in the inside wiring. *To eliminate the inside wiring, simply plug the tester into the NIU (demarc), thus disconnecting the house wiring. *To determine if it's coming from the switch at the CO, dial a quiet line number. *All it does is terminate the call to a perfect dummy load, that does NOT go through the switch. *If the noise disappears, it's coming from somewhere inside the CO. *If it's still there, it's on the line somewhere. Does every phone company have this? *Does Verizon? Yes, yes, and I don't know the Verizon number. Please provide any number that you know. *I am willing to bet that it is industry standard. ?-) How much would you like to bet? *The ANAC, ANI, DAMT, quiet line, milliwatt tone, etc test numbers vary between locations, CO's, type of switch, and companies. *Same with quiet line numbers, security, test equipment, procedures, and standards. *AT&T is fairly standardized throughout the system. *I don't have a clue what Verizon does as everything I work with locally uses AT&T. However, if you want numbers to abuse, this might help. http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=583069 It's 10 year old, but looks accurate. Please send my winnings to the address below. Thanks. *You warned me that they vary. ?-) The lady from telephone repair called me back this morning and told me they will be coming out to my house tomorrow to do "some rewiring". I asked if they'll need to get into my house to do this, (just to be sure I knew what she was talking about) and she said no. I then asked the 64,000 dollar question. "Will there be a charge for this"? And again it was no. "They will be working on the wires on the road" I was told. I'm assuming this means a different, (and hopefully better cable pair). Interestingly she asked if I would be home. She said that although I didn't have to be, there would be no way that the technician would be able to tell if my dialup was improved unless we plugged my laptop into the interface while he was there. I was surprised that they would have no way to assess dialup capabilities of a pots line. They must have to do this for DSL don't they? So why couldn't they assess dialup? Lenny |
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dialup issues
klem kedidelhopper wrote: The lady from telephone repair called me back this morning and told me they will be coming out to my house tomorrow to do "some rewiring". I asked if they'll need to get into my house to do this, (just to be sure I knew what she was talking about) and she said no. I then asked the 64,000 dollar question. "Will there be a charge for this"? And again it was no. "They will be working on the wires on the road" I was told. I'm assuming this means a different, (and hopefully better cable pair). Interestingly she asked if I would be home. She said that although I didn't have to be, there would be no way that the technician would be able to tell if my dialup was improved unless we plugged my laptop into the interface while he was there. I was surprised that they would have no way to assess dialup capabilities of a pots line. They must have to do this for DSL don't they? So why couldn't they assess dialup? Lenny They use test equipmet made to test phone lines. Usually a TDR, and maybe a BER testset. |
#40
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dialup issues
On Tue, 19 Feb 2013 15:30:59 -0800 (PST), klem kedidelhopper
wrote: I was surprised that they would have no way to assess dialup capabilities of a pots line. They must have to do this for DSL don't they? So why couldn't they assess dialup? Lenny Locally, the DSL and POTS installers carry an Acterna/JDSU HST-3000 telecom tester. I used to have one (until it was stolen) so I'm rather familiar with what it can do. Ethernet testing is built into the base unit. There are plugins for various line types, including POTS, ADSL, ADSL2+, T1, VoIP, fiber, and V.34 (33.6K) modems. However, I don't think they have a V.42bis plugin (not sure). Whether the installer actually knows how to use the tester is another horror story. I've seen both extremes. http://www.jdsu.com/en-us/Test-and-Measurement/Products/a-z-product-list/Pages/hst-3000.aspx?rcode=hst Some of the DSL data of my friends and customers from this tester: http://dsl.11junk.com Sniff.... I miss my tester. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
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